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View Full Version : If Ansah, Warmack and Ogletree is available at pick 19 who do we pick?



NYG7283
01-07-2013, 11:11 AM
Because in my opinion either one of these 3 will be BPA and need at pick 19. With Osi gone and Tuck declining rapidly they do need another starting DE opposite to JPP and Ezekiel Ansah will be an excellent fit for this defense a freak of nature with massive athletic ability a kind of player Reese loves to draft. Chance Warmack is a punishing blocking offensive guard that is excellent in run blocking and underrated in pass protection would immediately upgrade this offensive line especially if the Giants keep Beatty and Boothe wouldn't mind this pick at all. And Alec Ogletree what can I say is a monster ILB that will help the Giants immediately in their LB core which has been very weak for the past 5 years or so now if they want to stop RG III and Alfred Morris's running attack or stop the running game in general then they need to fix the LB core in a hurry and Ogletree will be a great start.

Like I said can't go wrong with either pick but if I have to pick one if all is available then I will have to go with Alec Ogletree because I think linebackers is a big need and Ogletree can arguably be the BPA at pick 19. Kiwanuka is useless at LB cause he's too slow to play the position plus they will probably move him back to DE where he belongs which that will give Herzlich a shot next year to win the strongside LB position (which is where he naturally plays and I'm willing to give him another shot). Blackburn has shown some nice things but let's face it he stinks can't stop the run at all and he's not that great against the pass either and with Boley declining fast also we got to hope that Williams can stay on the field next year cause he's shown he's pretty quick and can pass coverage very well.

What do you guys think?

Toadofsteel
01-07-2013, 11:12 AM
First one i'd take if available is Warmack, failing that Ansah, then Ogletree...

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 11:12 AM
I'd go with Ansah. Need a DE.

NYG7283
01-07-2013, 11:15 AM
Reality is that in the end I think we would go with Alec Ogletree because come April I think Ezekiel Ansah will be moved up in the top 10 in a lot of mock drafts because of his insane athletic ability and I just have a feeling that some team will steal Chance Warmack away from us before we pick

Toadofsteel
01-07-2013, 11:15 AM
I still think JPP/Kiwi/Tracy/Ojomo would be a good rotation right there... we need OL way more than DE at this point.

Diamondring
01-07-2013, 11:15 AM
DE is not always the solution. Giants may want to really get a lb who can do all three things, stop the run, cover and go at the qb. A DT ib JPP is more needed than a DE right now.

Diamondring
01-07-2013, 11:16 AM
I still think JPP/Kiwi/Tracy/Ojomo would be a good rotation right there... we need OL way more than DE at this point.Yeah what youi have said is more important.

NYG7283
01-07-2013, 11:19 AM
I have to agree with you here the offensive line was a big problem yes they didn't give up many sacks but Eli did get pressured a lot more this year than the last 2 seasons Snee has been declining, Baas really stinks and is paid way too much money and Diehl is done. So Chance Warmack it is the way he blocks can you imagine how many big runs David Wilson will get next year

FrankAE
01-07-2013, 11:22 AM
Giants need to make a move and get higher than 19th while keeping their 19th. Who they pick, we don't know. They need a top 10 talent added to this team. Someone who a force rookie year, not a project or future.

GoDeep80
01-07-2013, 11:26 AM
Giants need to make a move and get higher than 19th while keeping their 19th. Who they pick, we don't know. They need a top 10 talent added to this team. Someone who a force rookie year, not a project or future.We could always tender cruz as a 1st rounder. Some team will bite on that. But then you'd have to be willing to lose Cruz.

nycsportzfan
01-07-2013, 11:27 AM
I"m happy with any of the 3 to be honest.. I don't think u can go wrong outta that trio..

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 11:28 AM
1A - Ansah
1B - Warmack
5 - Ogletree

PBTimmons
01-07-2013, 11:29 AM
1A - Ansah
1B - Warmack
5 - Ogletree

/thread

NYG7283
01-07-2013, 11:33 AM
1A - Ansah
1B - Warmack
5 - Ogletree

With Osi gone and if Tuck is also gone then I agree that Reese will definitely draft Ansah because JPP will need a 2nd threat with him and Ansah will get the pass rush back on track and if the pass rush gets back on track then it would help our useless secondary tremendously. But, if Tuck stays then I see Reese going after either Ogletree because we need linebackers in general badly or Warmack because he would immediately upgrade the Giants interior line tremendously

JB456
01-07-2013, 11:34 AM
I still think JPP/Kiwi/Tracy/Ojomo would be a good rotation right there... we need OL way more than DE at this point.

Although you might be correct, I would have felt alot better if the Giants worked Ojomo in at least a little bit this year in order to see what he could do against other teams number ones. I was a big time proponent of giving Ojomo some reps this year especially since Osi and Tuck were terrible. Now, the team doesn't even know what they have and they will probably draft a DE in the first, even though we may already have one on the roster.

TheEnigma
01-07-2013, 11:36 AM
The potential of JPP and Ansah would just be too hard for Reese to pass up. Having two elite bookends on the defensive line provides more value than a stud Guard or a linebacker. With that said, Beatty teaming with Warmack next to him would be tremendous to watch and Ogletree working with a healthy Jwill would be epic.

Toadofsteel
01-07-2013, 11:37 AM
Of course, other teams might make the choice for us. If two of them are gone by #19 it's pretty much a no-brainer...

NYG7283
01-07-2013, 11:40 AM
Of course, other teams might make the choice for us. If two of them are gone by #19 it's pretty much a no-brainer...

I agree 100% with this but the question will be which 2 will be gone by pick #19 my guess will be Ansah and Warmack will be gone by the time we pick because like I said when March-April comes I believe Ezekiel Ansah will be a top 10 pick and I think the St. Louis Rams will steal Chance Warmack away from us right before we pick so that will leave us with Alec Ogletree which would be a no brainer by the time we pick

TheEnigma
01-07-2013, 11:43 AM
We need to go with the strengths of the draft presented to us. Unless there is a CB or LB prospect superior to an OL or DL, we should stick with the trench selections.

GOBLUE24
01-07-2013, 11:46 AM
To me it a serious toss up between Alex and chance. I have to chose Chance it too much of an upgrade not too. He a monster in the run game and makes the offense that much better. Best ol guy in draft in my opinion. Guy like minter or Johnson in second

JJC7301
01-07-2013, 12:38 PM
I'd go with Ansah. Need a DE.
+1 on Ansah. No matter what, I'm hoping that the BPA will be on the D-line.

tdawg1413
01-07-2013, 12:39 PM
1. Warmack by a long shot
2. Ogletree
3. Ansah

- Warmack will be a pro bowler almost every year. I can't say that about the other two. Not a big Ansah fan, there are about 10 other players I would draft over him if we had the chance.

C1010
01-07-2013, 02:57 PM
Ill be honest, I think Ansah is probably going top 10, 15 definitly. He's going to be pushed as the next JPP. Remember what happened with Chandler Jones, he shot up the boards fast.

Cloud57
01-07-2013, 03:03 PM
Ogletree is trash, Ansah is another overhyped nobody, Warmack looks good.

Sundown
01-07-2013, 03:06 PM
LB!!!!!

gmen0820
01-07-2013, 03:10 PM
In the same order you listed them.

JSpin
01-07-2013, 06:24 PM
Ogletree is trash, Ansah is another overhyped nobody, Warmack looks good.

Woah woah woah Ogletree is trash?? I highly disagree.

When I first saw some of his Bama film I thought the same but as you start to watch him more you see how good he really is. He's a consensus top 20 talent right now in the draft process and here's why. He has elite athleticism and coverage ability for the position. He also has great instincts (always around the ball) and is a big hitting playmaker.

Getting back on topic, Warmack by a long shot then Ogletree and Ansah. We don't need a DE because we can move Kiwi there and FA is deep there.

ImElectric2
01-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Why does everyone want a pass rusher in the first round. It is recalled that Strahan, Osi, and tuck werent first rounders, right? Even Kiwi was the last pick of the first. We clearly know how to pick elite pass rushers outside of the first. Clearly Jpp was a first, but I think his talents and measurables were rare. Do you guys really think any pass rushers in this draft are worth a first? I feel like a quality corner or Lb or even o-lineman is more.of a first round priority. I mean, Im no GM either, but that's just my take.

nycsportzfan
01-07-2013, 08:33 PM
Why does everyone want a pass rusher in the first round. It is recalled that Strahan, Osi, and tuck werent first rounders, right? Even Kiwi was the last pick of the first. We clearly know how to pick elite pass rushers outside of the first. Clearly Jpp was a first, but I think his talents and measurables were rare. Do you guys really think any pass rushers in this draft are worth a first? I feel like a quality corner or Lb or even o-lineman is more.of a first round priority. I mean, Im no GM either, but that's just my take. Because u can't think like that.. If there is a player on the board that fits a need and is worthy of the pick, then why not? If theres players at other positons who fit the spot ur picking value wise, and the positon u need , there is not a player , then don't reach.. Ansah fits value and need, which is best of both worlds, and he has enormous potential...

gmen0820
01-07-2013, 08:56 PM
My god, Warmack is having some game. Who wouldn't wanna see Wilson run behind him?

CGYgiant
01-07-2013, 09:14 PM
My god, Warmack is having some game. Who wouldn't wanna see Wilson run behind him?

He does, however, need a bigger jersey. I think the Giants will accommodate.

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 09:19 PM
My god, Warmack is having some game. Who wouldn't wanna see Wilson run behind him?

I do, I do..!!

gmen0820
01-07-2013, 09:20 PM
He does, however, need a bigger jersey. I think the Giants will accommodate.Nah his tiny jersey is badass!

gmen0820
01-07-2013, 09:20 PM
I do, I do..!!Same. This is just insane.

TheEnigma
01-07-2013, 09:35 PM
Nah his tiny jersey is badass!

And Warmack has to be the most badass last name for an offensive lineman. Everything about this guy just reeks of awesomeness.

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 09:50 PM
Warmack is playing himself out of the Giants range.. :mad:

CGYgiant
01-07-2013, 09:54 PM
Warmack is playing himself out of the Giants range.. :mad:

Is he a better prospect than DeCastro was?

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 09:55 PM
Is he a better prospect than DeCastro was?

close, but I think so..

tdawg1413
01-07-2013, 10:49 PM
Is he a better prospect than DeCastro was?

Without a doubt. Best G prospect in a while.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 10:54 PM
Lets remember that Warmack has all sorts of problems pass blocking. Going forward he's a good player. But do I want him protecting Eli? Probably not

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 11:02 PM
Without a doubt. Best G prospect in a while.

I like Warmack more.. but DeCastro was no slouch.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-07-2013, 11:59 PM
I'd go with Ansah. Need a DE.

need an OL more, especially if a good one drops. and come on,,we could call the dude war machine

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 12:17 AM
I will never understand the fascination this board has with offensive guards. Every year that's what everyone wants. It's bizarre. No other teams roots for guards. They all want play makers.

And I don't see how the giants need a guard more than a DE.

giants8493
01-08-2013, 12:24 AM
I like Barrat Jones due to his versatility.

BlueBlooded1979
01-08-2013, 01:48 AM
A Guard at #19 ? That would be like taking a gadget 2 down RB in the first round....oh wait.

Take the DE, how often do you find good pass rushers outside the top 35 picks ?

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 02:09 AM
I will never understand the fascination this board has with offensive guards. Every year that's what everyone wants. It's bizarre. No other teams roots for guards. They all want play makers.

And I don't see how the giants need a guard more than a DE.

Its not a thread about which position you want more, its about which player you want more.


DE is a bigger impact position than guard, no doubt. But there is also logic in thinking that Warmack is a pretty sure fire stud guard whereas Ansah, for all his physcal freakishness, still has a long way to go in his development and technique. There are a lot of scouts who still have Ansah as a possible early 2nd round prospect(which I doubt) and I havent seen anyone who think Warmack will make it out of the 1st. So, I can at least understand why some may have him higher.

myles2424
01-08-2013, 03:01 AM
I will never understand the fascination this board has with offensive guards. Every year that's what everyone wants. It's bizarre. No other teams roots for guards. They all want play makers.

And I don't see how the giants need a guard more than a DE.
+1000.......IMO DE,DT,CB,LB much bigger needs....10x easier to find Interior Olineman in the middle/late rounds than it is to find a pAssrusher or a Cb worthy of being in the NFL...

nycsportzfan
01-08-2013, 08:03 AM
Its not a thread about which position you want more, its about which player you want more.


DE is a bigger impact position than guard, no doubt. But there is also logic in thinking that Warmack is a pretty sure fire stud guard whereas Ansah, for all his physcal freakishness, still has a long way to go in his development and technique. There are a lot of scouts who still have Ansah as a possible early 2nd round prospect(which I doubt) and I havent seen anyone who think Warmack will make it out of the 1st. So, I can at least understand why some may have him higher. Well said! Not to mention, we have to take into account who last yrs 1st rder was, and Warmack in essence, helps us with 2major parts of our team, keeping our QB upright, and helping get David WIlson a up the middle game...

Not to mention we have Boothe as a FA, and Snee is stinking, and Snee went fairly early in RD 2, adn was the best lineman we had for yrs, and thats saying something, when people like to say "we find G's everywhere, why draft one early?"..

Mike Iupati is sensational, and we've seen Guards and Centers every yr lately who are above and beyond and worthy of a mid to late 1st rder, and warmack may be the best yet.. Talking about the POuncey bro's, Decastro, Iupati, the guy the eagles drafted..etc

Some of us just want good players and a all around good team, and when u can have the best player at a positon, and its a positon that needs youth, and skill, then we root for it.. Not to mention, most of us aren't rooting for warmack, hes just one guy we would certainly not have a issue if we drafted...

nycsportzfan
01-08-2013, 08:12 AM
+1000.......IMO DE,DT,CB,LB much bigger needs....10x easier to find Interior Olineman in the middle/late rounds than it is to find a pAssrusher or a Cb worthy of being in the NFL... Heres a look at Interior Lineman in the Probowl and wehre they were drafted..

Logan Mankins- 1st rder
Mike Iupati- 1st rder
Maurkice Pouncey- 1st rder
Marshall Yanda- 3rd rder
Chris Snee- early 2nd rder
Max Unger- 2nd rder
Wade Smith- 3rd rder
Jahri Evans- 4th rd
Chris Myers- 6th rd
Jeff Saturday- undrafted.

As u can see, most of the time, guys are drafted in the early rds that make it to the probowl level.. Its more rare u find those guys in the undrafted or later rd ranks.. I'll bet David Decastro eventually will be in the probowl as well, and he was a 1st rder as well... Chance Warmack might be the best interior line prospect outta all these guys outside of maybe Mike Iupati...

nycsportzfan
01-08-2013, 08:19 AM
Lets remember that Warmack has all sorts of problems pass blocking. Going forward he's a good player. But do I want him protecting Eli? Probably not Nah, he pass blocks just fine... Hes a incredible all around player, and very few are gonna get the better of him.. Hes way to strong and mobile.. The guy moves extrmely well for a man his size.. I don't know where u get he has a issue pass blocking? I've not only rarley seen Bama give up pressure at all, let alone coming from Warmacks positon...


Chance Warmack, Manti Te'o head top players in BCS title game
NFL News - 3 days ago - 7 related articles
The BCS title game is a must-see event for NFL scouts. ... 1) Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama: It is uncommon for an interior blocker to sit ... senior season that showcased his capacity to dominate the game from the middle.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 09:04 AM
As u can see, most of the time, guys are drafted in the early rds that make it to the probowl level.. Its more rare u find those guys in the undrafted or later rd ranks.. I'll bet David Decastro eventually will be in the probowl as well, and he was a 1st rder as well... Chance Warmack might be the best interior line prospect outta all these guys outside of maybe Mike Iupati...

We hear this every year that this guard is the best ever. How many games has Chris snee won for the giants?

I've just never seen a forum that is so amazed by guards and centers.

I think if we let this forum pick draft picks the top 10 picks in every draft would be centers and guards

penguinfarmer
01-08-2013, 09:17 AM
Not true. We'd get plenty out-of-no-where 4.3 guys that we'd trade the farm for.

giants8493
01-08-2013, 09:43 AM
A Guard at #19 ? That would be like taking a gadget 2 down RB in the first round....oh wait.

Take the DE, how often do you find good pass rushers outside the top 35 picks ?Tuck osi Strahan?

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 09:59 AM
Its not a thread about which position you want more, its about which player you want more.


DE is a bigger impact position than guard, no doubt. But there is also logic in thinking that Warmack is a pretty sure fire stud guard whereas Ansah, for all his physcal freakishness, still has a long way to go in his development and technique. There are a lot of scouts who still have Ansah as a possible early 2nd round prospect(which I doubt) and I havent seen anyone who think Warmack will make it out of the 1st. So, I can at least understand why some may have him higher.

Well put. Project DE vs. Sure Fire Pro Bowl G is a different conversation than just G vs. DE.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 11:09 AM
Well put. Project DE vs. Sure Fire Pro Bowl G is a different conversation than just G vs. DE.

And if that "project DE" has upside of being one of the best DEs in the league I would take the DE every time.

Just like JPP vs. Iupati. Anyone really want Iupati more now?

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 11:28 AM
And if that "project DE" has upside of being one of the best DEs in the league I would take the DE every time.

Just like JPP vs. Iupati. Anyone really want Iupati more now?

That opinion is very valid. But, JPP was a better prospect coming out that Ansah is right now. Warmack is a better prospect than Lupati was too. So its fair to go either way.

regardless, you make it sound as if the posters here are choosing the position Guard over the position DE. That isnt happening.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 11:39 AM
That opinion is very valid. But, JPP was a better prospect coming out that Ansah is right now. Warmack is a better prospect than Lupati was too. So its fair to go either way.

regardless, you make it sound as if the posters here are choosing the position Guard over the position DE. That isnt happening.

JPP was a better prospect? Many doubted he would even go in the first round.

My point is every year this place goes crazy head over heels for a guard they want in the first round. It's completely bizarre

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 11:51 AM
And if that "project DE" has upside of being one of the best DEs in the league I would take the DE every time.

Just like JPP vs. Iupati. Anyone really want Iupati more now?

Maybe you're right , but the point is that you have to consider the players involved and just can't make the blanket statement that a DE should be selected ahead of a G every time.

Imgrate
01-08-2013, 11:55 AM
The difference in production of a top flight guard and a middle of the road guard isn't that significant I remember reading a report by a former olineman when faneca got his new deal that the difference between faneca and a journeyman player is about 16 positive plays a year when the coaches break down the film. Who really gives a **** if you have great guards?

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 11:55 AM
Maybe you're right , but the point is that you have to consider the players involved and just can't make the blanket statement that a DE should be selected ahead of a G every time.

I'm not. But every year everyone here has a guard as their highest rated player it seems.

tdawg1413
01-08-2013, 11:56 AM
Ansah may indeed turn out to be a great player. I just dont see much past the physical. I think Okafor is better imo. Warmack is just such a beast. I see a Steve Hutchinson level guard with him. At #19, that is fine with me.

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 11:57 AM
s
JPP was a better prospect? Many doubted he would even go in the first round.

My point is every year this place goes crazy head over heels for a guard they want in the first round. It's completely bizarre

JPP was a better prospect yes. Ansah might be a better athlete, but JPP was a better prospect. He had better tape vs better competition.

And I do not recall people saying he was a 2nd rounder, at least not anyone reputable.

There are a few people who consider Ansah to be a late 1st round to early 2nd round prospect. I think JPPs success has helped improve Ansah's stock to be honest. He is a sick athlete and I would certainly love the pick, but I also understand why Warmack would be preffered by some people.

Either way, my reponse was to your general statement that DE> Guard. The merits of the 2 players are there for all to see so lets talk about them.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 12:13 PM
s

JPP was a better prospect yes. Ansah might be a better athlete, but JPP was a better prospect. He had better tape vs better competition.

And I do not recall people saying he was a 2nd rounder, at least not anyone reputable.

There are a few people who consider Ansah to be a late 1st round to early 2nd round prospect. I think JPPs success has helped improve Ansah's stock to be honest. He is a sick athlete and I would certainly love the pick, but I also understand why Warmack would be preffered by some people.

Either way, my reponse was to your general statement that DE> Guard. The merits of the 2 players are there for all to see so lets talk about them.

JPP did not have great tape. He made special plays on occasion, and he had a great motor. But his tape was similar to Ansahs. And most thought he was a mid to late first. With a possibility of going in the early second. Similar to ansah now. Though we are still months away.

I don't see how JPP raises Ansahs stock at all. Because of Jpp teams became interested in 6'5 DEs who can run and have power? Pretty sure it's always been like that.

And I understand that Warmack is a good player. But guards get such massive hype on this board. Like if the giants replaced boothe with Warmack their offense would be unstoppable. Never mind that teams running games almost always suffer when a new guard is drafted. Takes a couple years for them to get going.

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 12:17 PM
JPP did not have great tape. He made special plays on occasion, and he had a great motor. But his tape was similar to Ansahs. And most thought he was a mid to late first. With a possibility of going in the early second. Similar to ansah now. Though we are still months away.

I don't see how JPP raises Ansahs stock at all. Because of Jpp teams became interested in 6'5 DEs who can run and have power? Pretty sure it's always been like that.

And I understand that Warmack is a good player. But guards get such massive hype on this board. Like if the giants replaced boothe with Warmack their offense would be unstoppable. Never mind that teams running games almost always suffer when a new guard is drafted. Takes a couple years for them to get going.

JPP had dominant games vs very good competition. He dominated the entire FSU offensive line that has 3 guys in the NFl right now. He basically won that game for USF. The tackle he accrued 3 sacks against was all conference ACC. JPP was a better prospect. Ansah is an incredible athlete to watch but he doesnt have the comparable tape to what JPP had. Sorry, not gonna let you rewrite that history.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 12:24 PM
JPP had dominant games vs very good competition. He dominated the entire FSU offensive line that has 3 guys in the NFl right now. He basically won that game for USF. The tackle he accrued 3 sacks against was all conference ACC. JPP was a better prospect. Ansah is an incredible athlete to watch but he doesnt have the comparable tape to what JPP had. Sorry, not gonna let you rewrite that history.

He had 1 sack that game. Talk about rewriting history.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 12:35 PM
And if we want to really debate performances against good opponents. Lets see.

Boise state ranked 18, ansah had 2.5 tackles for a loss and a sack.
Utah state ranked 16, ansah had 3 tackles for a loss and 2 sacks.

I believe ansah had a much more difficult schedule/higher quality of competition this season than JPp did in his breakout year

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 12:42 PM
He had 1 sack that game. Talk about rewriting history.

Sorry They were 3 TFL, 1 sack , 1 ff and 2 QB hurries. Either way feel free to review the game, I dont have to cause I was there He was everywhere and He DOMINATED a highly touted FSU offensive line that has 3 guys in the NFL(4 if you count ps players)

That was the game that oppened people's eyes.

While Ansah has been very good, he hasnt faced or dominated anyone of that caliber. JPP had better tape. Move on.

Imgrate
01-08-2013, 12:46 PM
There was talk of jpp going third overall.....

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 12:49 PM
Sorry They were 3 TFL, 1 sack , 1 ff and 2 QB hurries. Either way feel free to review the game, I dont have to cause I was there He was everywhere and He DOMINATED a highly touted FSU offensive line that has 3 guys in the NFL(4 if you count ps players)

That was the game that oppened people's eyes.

While Ansah has been very good, he hasnt faced or dominated anyone of that caliber. JPP had better tape. Move on.

Ansah has played better opponents. Sorry.

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 12:49 PM
There was talk of jpp going third overall.....

There's going to be talk of Ansah going top 5 too.

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 12:53 PM
Ansah has played better opponents. Sorry.

Change the topic much? He played good opponents, which ones did he play that he dominated and which of those are NFL talents?

JPP had that on his resume.

Redeyejedi
01-08-2013, 01:01 PM
And if we want to really debate performances against good opponents. Lets see.

Boise state ranked 18, ansah had 2.5 tackles for a loss and a sack.
Utah state ranked 16, ansah had 3 tackles for a loss and 2 sacks.

I believe ansah had a much more difficult schedule/higher quality of competition this season than JPp did in his breakout year
Ansah plays a different role also. BYU plays some 3 man fronts, He plays some 0 tech ,3 tech 5 tech

slipknottin
01-08-2013, 01:05 PM
There's going to be talk of Ansah going top 5 too.


Change the topic much? He played good opponents, which ones did he play that he dominated and which of those are NFL talents?

JPP had that on his resume.

He beat up datko at fsu. Datko was like the last pick in the draft. Not exactly a top quality player.

Kruunch
01-08-2013, 01:44 PM
1A - Ansah
1B - Warmack
5 - Ogletree

This sums it up to me impact wise.

Although I'd never use a #1 pick on an OG-only prospect (Warmack could never play Tackle imo).

Ogletree is a borderline 3rd rounder. Good player, but not worth a first round flyer.

Of the three, Ansah has the most chance to be an impact player imo.

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 02:03 PM
He beat up datko at fsu. Datko was like the last pick in the draft. Not exactly a top quality player.

That was after he destroyed BOTH shoulders. At the time of that game, Datko was among the best young tackles in college football. Datko completely dominated several other very good NFL caliber players that same year, including Derrick Morgan(pick just after jpp) who Datko owned.

ImElectric2
01-08-2013, 02:17 PM
Because u can't think like that.. If there is a player on the board that fits a need and is worthy of the pick, then why not? If theres players at other positons who fit the spot ur picking value wise, and the positon u need , there is not a player , then don't reach.. Ansah fits value and need, which is best of both worlds, and he has enormous potential...But does he fit a need? I'm not saying Tuck is what he was and clearly we don't know what ojomo and Tracy can really do, but we also have kiwi. You know what that's called? Depth. Now answer me how man teams have 2 elite bookends on their dline. Even when Strahan was here we went through a variety of guys opposite him that were clearly not the same level. When we won in 2007 we had Osi and Tuck coming into their own...both as second round picks mind you. Who has peppers had opposite him in his career? How about Jared Allen? Now, that's not to say getting someone opposite is a poor decision or a bad move by any means, but with such glaring holes at other positions of need (and severely less depth at said positions) coupled with the ability to find great pass rushers after the first round I again ask, why a first round pass rusher in this draft?

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 02:23 PM
But does he fit a need? I'm not saying Tuck is what he was and clearly we don't know what ojomo and Tracy can really do, but we also have kiwi. You know what that's called? Depth. Now answer me how man teams have 2 elite bookends on their dline. Even when Strahan was here we went through a variety of guys opposite him that were clearly not the same level. When we won in 2007 we had Osi and Tuck coming into their own...both as second round picks mind you. Who has peppers had opposite him in his career? How about Jared Allen? Now, that's not to say getting someone opposite is a poor decision or a bad move by any means, but with such glaring holes at other positions of need (and severely less depth at said positions) coupled with the ability to find great pass rushers after the first round I again ask, why a first round pass rusher in this draft?

We have no depth at all at DE. We have JPP and a now ineffective Tuck. Osi is gone. Ojomo is an undrafted FA who wasn't even able to get on the field this year and Tracey showed very little when he got on the field.

Considering that our whole defensive philosophy is based upon pressuring the passer, DE is a HUGE need.

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 02:25 PM
None...I would draft the best RB in the draft and get a value pick as a pass rusher to replace Osi

No way that JR would draft RB's in the first round two years in a row.

ImElectric2
01-08-2013, 02:34 PM
We have no depth at all at DE. We have JPP and a now ineffective Tuck. Osi is gone. Ojomo is an undrafted FA who wasn't even able to get on the field this year and Tracey showed very little when he got on the field.Considering that our whole defensive philosophy is based upon pressuring the passer, DE is a HUGE need.When did I say it wasn't a need? We have depth and if Tuck is here and you think Coughlin isn't going to start him or have him heavily used in a rotation that may or may not include a rookie but definitely will include Kiwi then you haven't been paying attention. My question is why take a pass rusher in the first this year? And because it seems my points are being forgotten or ignored ill again remind that Strahan, our beloved hall of fame de, was not a first rounder.

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 02:51 PM
When did I say it wasn't a need? We have depth and if Tuck is here and you think Coughlin isn't going to start him or have him heavily used in a rotation that may or may not include a rookie but definitely will include Kiwi then you haven't been paying attention. My question is why take a pass rusher in the first this year? And because it seems my points are being forgotten or ignored ill again remind that Strahan, our beloved hall of fame de, was not a first rounder.

You questioned whether drafting a DE fills a need, and then said that we have depth at DE.

I believe that we do not have adequate depth at DE to carry out our defensive philosophy (as evidenced by our putrid pass rush this year) and that DE is therefore a huge need.

ImElectric2
01-08-2013, 02:58 PM
You questioned whether drafting a DE fills a need, and then said that we have depth at DE.I believe that we do not have adequate depth at DE to carry out our defensive philosophy (as evidenced by our putrid pass rush this year) and that DE is therefore a huge need.Perhaps a miscommunication. I'm questioning whether a first round DE was a necessity. I actually think a 2nd or 3rd round DE and/or FA pickup would be wise. I agree we need someone, but I disagree with using our first to do it.

myles2424
01-08-2013, 03:02 PM
Perhaps a miscommunication. I'm questioning whether a first round DE was a necessity. I actually think a 2nd or 3rd round DE and/or FA pickup would be wise. I agree we need someone, but I disagree with using our first to do it.
And what 4-3 DE would be there in the 3rd that'll be worth a damn?

ImElectric2
01-08-2013, 03:07 PM
And what 4-3 DE would be there in the 3rd that'll be worth a damn?Ask Reese, I'm not a draft expert, but from what Ive seen in the past, oh I dunno, 50+ years of NFL Drafts teams that do their diligence can find talent at any position in any round. Off topic, condescending towards others for the sake of it is very unbecoming.

Redeyejedi
01-08-2013, 03:20 PM
But does he fit a need? I'm not saying Tuck is what he was and clearly we don't know what ojomo and Tracy can really do, but we also have kiwi. You know what that's called? Depth. Now answer me how man teams have 2 elite bookends on their dline. Even when Strahan was here we went through a variety of guys opposite him that were clearly not the same level. When we won in 2007 we had Osi and Tuck coming into their own...both as second round picks mind you. Who has peppers had opposite him in his career? How about Jared Allen? Now, that's not to say getting someone opposite is a poor decision or a bad move by any means, but with such glaring holes at other positions of need (and severely less depth at said positions) coupled with the ability to find great pass rushers after the first round I again ask, why a first round pass rusher in this draft?U can find good players anywhere in the draft but the best chance to find a good player is by taking the best athletes and those are found in the 1st round. Tom Brady was a 6th Rounder do u ignore taking QB's until the 6th round now because he got picked there. Giants defense was bad because of the quality of the DE's .The so called depth that this team had at DE did absolutly nothing this season or did u not turn the TV on to watch the games.. Anyone that has watched the Giants the last 30 years knows this team has one with pass rushers I see no reason to change that philosophy now.

ImElectric2
01-08-2013, 03:49 PM
U can find good players anywhere in the draft but the best chance to find a good player is by taking the best athletes and those are found in the 1st round. Tom Brady was a 6th Rounder do u ignore taking QB's until the 6th round now because he got picked there. Giants defense was bad because of the quality of the DE's .The so called depth that this team had at DE did absolutly nothing this season or did u not turn the TV on to watch the games.. Anyone that has watched the Giants the last 30 years knows this team has one with pass rushers I see no reason to change that philosophy now.Well if you twist what Im saying then yeah, RGIII was dumb because you could have got a Brady calibur player in 6. However, that isn't what Im saying at all. All Im saying is that everyone is going nuts over a first round DE when it seems like, historically, we have successfully found good pass rushers outside of round one. Not like round 6 alla Brady, but 2 and 3 for sure. You wanna talk about sticking to philosophy? How about LT and JPP were athletic freaks and the only pas rushers in recent history that were taken in the first to be successful (minus one or 2 wiffs in.the Strahan era). All our other gems (strah, Osi, tuck, tolly to a degree, and kiwi...yes I'm counting him as a second rounder and no, I don't think that's unreasonable) have been picked after round one. So, again, why a DE in round one this year with literally 4 other positions that are thinner in this years draft that we need help and depth in?

Redeyejedi
01-08-2013, 07:56 PM
Well if you twist what Im saying then yeah, RGIII was dumb because you could have got a Brady calibur player in 6. However, that isn't what Im saying at all. All Im saying is that everyone is going nuts over a first round DE when it seems like, historically, we have successfully found good pass rushers outside of round one. Not like round 6 alla Brady, but 2 and 3 for sure. You wanna talk about sticking to philosophy? How about LT and JPP were athletic freaks and the only pas rushers in recent history that were taken in the first to be successful (minus one or 2 wiffs in.the Strahan era). All our other gems (strah, Osi, tuck, tolly to a degree, and kiwi...yes I'm counting him as a second rounder and no, I don't think that's unreasonable) have been picked after round one. So, again, why a DE in round one this year with literally 4 other positions that are thinner in this years draft that we need help and depth in?So Kiwi was 1st rounder but you will count him as a 2nd okay. Strahan was picked at 40 is it unreasonable for me to say he is a 1st Rounder. Point is when your team is driven by Pass Rushers its probably a good idea to take the best athletes you can get your hands on. The higher the pick the higher quality of athlete. Yes u can get guys like Tuck who slip because of injury concerns and get taken in the 3rd and maybe Carradine is that guy this year we will see. One thing I am absolutely certain about is if the NY Giants dont start getting guys who can get to the QB on this defense they arent going to win many games.

ImElectric2
01-08-2013, 09:01 PM
So Kiwi was 1st rounder but you will count him as a 2nd okay. Strahan was picked at 40 is it unreasonable for me to say he is a 1st Rounder. Point is when your team is driven by Pass Rushers its probably a good idea to take the best athletes you can get your hands on. The higher the pick the higher quality of athlete. Yes u can get guys like Tuck who slip because of injury concerns and get taken in the 3rd and maybe Carradine is that guy this year we will see. One thing I am absolutely certain about is if the NY Giants dont start getting guys who can get to the QB on this defense they arent going to win many games.That's fair. And I can get behind that. I also like that you turned my Kiwi logic around on me haha. I guess part of where I was coming from was the notion that this draft is supposed to be deep with pass rushers. As I previously stated Im not really a draft guru, but if true that there are plenty of pass rushers in this draft would that make a difference in your mind? Like, if you could get a pass rusher of roughly the same talent level at 19 or 38, why wouldn't you look to take a RT at 19 when the talent level there drops significantly?

nycsportzfan
01-09-2013, 02:11 AM
U can find good players anywhere in the draft but the best chance to find a good player is by taking the best athletes and those are found in the 1st round. Tom Brady was a 6th Rounder do u ignore taking QB's until the 6th round now because he got picked there. Giants defense was bad because of the quality of the DE's .The so called depth that this team had at DE did absolutly nothing this season or did u not turn the TV on to watch the games.. Anyone that has watched the Giants the last 30 years knows this team has one with pass rushers I see no reason to change that philosophy now. We may of WON with a solid pass rush, but u can't put the 86 and 90 teams in the same breath with the 07 and 11 teams, becuase they played a diffrent base defnese, and we won 86 and 90 built around our LB core, which might of been the best LB core ever with guys like Banks, Johnson, Carson, LT, and so on and so fourth..

We always have had complete teams for the most part in our winning seasons... Look at how important Corey Webster was in the 07 playoff run, and RW McQuarters for that matter. We need to put resources into the LB core and Secondary, or our pass rush isn't gonna mean squat.. 5sacks a game is great, but not if when ur not getting sacks, ur getting torched down the field..

Redeyejedi
01-09-2013, 07:02 AM
That's fair. And I can get behind that. I also like that you turned my Kiwi logic around on me haha. I guess part of where I was coming from was the notion that this draft is supposed to be deep with pass rushers. As I previously stated Im not really a draft guru, but if true that there are plenty of pass rushers in this draft would that make a difference in your mind? Like, if you could get a pass rusher of roughly the same talent level at 19 or 38, why wouldn't you look to take a RT at 19 when the talent level there drops significantly?You wouldnt be picking You would be picking around 51 not 38 though.In 32 picks a lot of those guys can come off the board and the Giants have not been overly aggressive in the draft recently moving up or down either

Redeyejedi
01-09-2013, 07:11 AM
We may of WON with a solid pass rush, but u can't put the 86 and 90 teams in the same breath with the 07 and 11 teams, becuase they played a diffrent base defnese, and we won 86 and 90 built around our LB core, which might of been the best LB core ever with guys like Banks, Johnson, Carson, LT, and so on and so fourth..

We always have had complete teams for the most part in our winning seasons... Look at how important Corey Webster was in the 07 playoff run, and RW McQuarters for that matter. We need to put resources into the LB core and Secondary, or our pass rush isn't gonna mean squat.. 5sacks a game is great, but not if when ur not getting sacks, ur getting torched down the field..Im not talking about what Base thats irrelevant really. The Giants and most teams win with pressure on the QB it starts there. If U cant get to the QB your defense is in trouble. 86 and 90 teams were great teams still were built on QB pressure the main cogs of that team were built before Free Agency. Now U have to be smarter with your resources they arent unlimted

nycsportzfan
01-09-2013, 08:57 AM
Im not talking about what Base thats irrelevant really. The Giants and most teams win with pressure on the QB it starts there. If U cant get to the QB your defense is in trouble. 86 and 90 teams were great teams still were built on QB pressure the main cogs of that team were built before Free Agency. Now U have to be smarter with your resources they arent unlimted Ya, most teams win with pressure, but some of that pressure comes from coverege sacks, and ur LB's and DB's being in the right place at the right time, and Blitzes, where again, LB's, and sometimes Secondary players also play a key part...

And even better then a Sack, is a Forced Fumble or any kind a Turnover for that matter, which most teams that are good tend to createm, which obviously is a mix of all positons..

The bottom line is, u can't have a super stout Dline and nothing at LB and/or Secondary, or its just not gonna matter.. They'll find ways to get the ball out quicker and take advantage of ur weakness before u can blink..

So yes, i hope we get some pass rush help, but i also hope we draft smart and get the best players for our team, regardless of positon, becuase were weak in many areas..

Redeyejedi
01-09-2013, 09:13 AM
Ya, most teams win with pressure, but some of that pressure comes from coverege sacks, and ur LB's and DB's being in the right place at the right time, and Blitzes, where again, LB's, and sometimes Secondary players also play a key part...

And even better then a Sack, is a Forced Fumble or any kind a Turnover for that matter, which most teams that are good tend to createm, which obviously is a mix of all positons..

The bottom line is, u can't have a super stout Dline and nothing at LB and/or Secondary, or its just not gonna matter.. They'll find ways to get the ball out quicker and take advantage of ur weakness before u can blink..

So yes, i hope we get some pass rush help, but i also hope we draft smart and get the best players for our team, regardless of positon, becuase were weak in many areas..
Im going to flip out if they dont get an elite DE or pass rushing prospect in this draft it will really set this team back.

icebergh59
01-09-2013, 10:53 AM
The Giants defensive line is fine, sacks come from being ahead or long down and distance, short drop quick passing is not pass rush, you need quick coverage of tight end and backs, and to take away slants, neither of which teh GMEN did well this year, even in 3rd and longs teh D gave up big plays on quick passes, even in LT days you had to cover to get sacks, if you time the DE's they are getting there, minus the ball, the Gints need LB speed to cover TE's and backs, and some cover corners, Offensively we need OT to improve the run game to control the clock and make the passing game more effective, gone is the punishing run game that drove fear into opponents, there is no shortage of skilled playmakers, but missing are drive blockers to consistantly make holes and control the line of scrimmage, so another strong safety to make sure that we can use the three safety defensive set, or some linebacker speed, and better drive/run blockers on the line line, although a "strong" TE would help as well

Carter.525
01-09-2013, 11:09 AM
Ogletree is not worth #19 pick.. LB will addressed in round 2 or 3

TCHOF
01-09-2013, 11:16 AM
The Giants defensive line is fine, sacks come from being ahead or long down and distance, short drop quick passing is not pass rush, you need quick coverage of tight end and backs, and to take away slants, neither of which teh GMEN did well this year, even in 3rd and longs teh D gave up big plays on quick passes, even in LT days you had to cover to get sacks, if you time the DE's they are getting there, minus the ball, the Gints need LB speed to cover TE's and backs, and some cover corners, Offensively we need OT to improve the run game to control the clock and make the passing game more effective, gone is the punishing run game that drove fear into opponents, there is no shortage of skilled playmakers, but missing are drive blockers to consistantly make holes and control the line of scrimmage, so another strong safety to make sure that we can use the three safety defensive set, or some linebacker speed, and better drive/run blockers on the line line, although a "strong" TE would help as well

Our DL is not fine.

Osi is gone, leaving us with a spent Tuck and a JPP who struggled with double-teams. Given our reliance on the pass rush, an infusion of young pass rushers is a critical need IMO.

ImElectric2
01-09-2013, 01:02 PM
You wouldnt be picking You would be picking around 51 not 38 though.In 32 picks a lot of those guys can come off the board and the Giants have not been overly aggressive in the draft recently moving up or down eitherYeah, I don't know where 38 came from LOL. I was typing at work and think I just multiplied by 2. Good point about our lack.of aggressiveness but at the same time maybe the Wilson/martin fiasco put a little fire in Reeses blood.

Imgrate
01-09-2013, 04:18 PM
Ya, most teams win with pressure, but some of that pressure comes from coverege sacks, and ur LB's and DB's being in the right place at the right time, and Blitzes, where again, LB's, and sometimes Secondary players also play a key part...And even better then a Sack, is a Forced Fumble or any kind a Turnover for that matter, which most teams that are good tend to createm, which obviously is a mix of all positons.. The bottom line is, u can't have a super stout Dline and nothing at LB and/or Secondary, or its just not gonna matter.. They'll find ways to get the ball out quicker and take advantage of ur weakness before u can blink..So yes, i hope we get some pass rush help, but i also hope we draft smart and get the best players for our team, regardless of positon, becuase were weak in many areas..We had terrible linebackers on both of our recent super bowl teams. Pass rushers have the ability to take away an entire play on every single passing down, whereas linebackers are restricted to being able to only stop their Zone or the guy they are manned up on.

slipknottin
01-09-2013, 04:24 PM
We had terrible linebackers on both of our recent super bowl teams. Pass rushers have the ability to take away an entire play on every single passing down, whereas linebackers are restricted to being able to only stop their Zone or the guy they are manned up on.

2007 they didnt. Pierce was slightly down from 06, but still was near probowl quality. and Kawika Mitchell was a really good player for a couple years there.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-09-2013, 04:55 PM
Reality is that in the end I think we would go with Alec Ogletree because come April I think Ezekiel Ansah will be moved up in the top 10 in a lot of mock drafts because of his insane athletic ability and I just have a feeling that some team will steal Chance Warmack away from us before we pick

plus too much of this is based on JPP's success,,,not every athletically raw prospect is gonna pan out like JPP. we got lucky once,,,twice? not so sure. ogletree would be my pick,,the kid has the size, and the speed to fit our scheme,,plus his game tape was much better than te'o's against alabama,,and he played in the SEC, that should mean something.

nycsportzfan
01-09-2013, 05:49 PM
2007 they didnt. Pierce was slightly down from 06, but still was near probowl quality. and Kawika Mitchell was a really good player for a couple years there. Kawika was freaking awesome that 1st yr for us! I remember he almost made the probowl..