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Kruunch
01-07-2013, 02:53 PM
While I've been hearing a lot about Ezekial Ansah (mostly due to the JPP similarities I think), wouldn't Alex Okafor make more sense?

Assumedly he'd be used mostly in Tuck's spot ... he's stronger at the point of attack and against the run. And tons more polished.

Thoughts?

juice33s
01-07-2013, 03:13 PM
I'm pretty high on him myself. He has a quicker first step off the snap, but I think Ansah is stronger at the point of attack and against the run...Also I think it was difficult to gauge Ansash's true potential as a pass rusher this season b/c of how much time he saw at Nose tackle and 5 tech defensive end

Kruunch
01-07-2013, 03:31 PM
I'm pretty high on him myself. He has a quicker first step off the snap, but I think Ansah is stronger at the point of attack and against the run...Also I think it was difficult to gauge Ansash's true potential as a pass rusher this season b/c of how much time he saw at Nose tackle and 5 tech defensive end


Well that's kind of my point ... Ansah's really raw and he doesn't have near the measurables of JPP (sort of a JPP-lite).

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 03:35 PM
Ansah doesnt have near the measurables of JPP? How are we figuring that?

I expect Ansah to put up a much better combine performance than JPP did

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 03:55 PM
if Reese trades back I could see Okafor as a target.. just not at #19

Kruunch
01-07-2013, 04:27 PM
Ansah doesnt have near the measurables of JPP? How are we figuring that?

I expect Ansah to put up a much better combine performance than JPP did

Ansah will definitely have a better 40 time (remember my 40 rant from the last two years?) but he's not nearly as fluid as JPP (flexibility). He doesn't have that quick first step the way JPP does, and doesn't have his wingspan (and that obviously won't change). He's a high motor guy that dogs plays and is fairly decent at shedding the block (make no mistake ... I'd be thrilled with either prospect in the draft).

Okafor has a better pass rush, plays the strong side like a beast (assumedly where we'd want him) is a high motor guy and much more polished (bigger school, plays with more football awareness (as you'd expect from a Texas guy), more forced fumbles, etc ...).

So while either would be awesome additions to the Giants lineup (imo), if both are available, doesn't Okafor make more sense as a potential starter (or back up that sees a ton of snaps) in 2013?

P.S. - And yes, Ansah is the *exact* type of athelete the Giants draft.

Kruunch
01-07-2013, 04:30 PM
if Reese trades back I could see Okafor as a target.. just not at #19

I think Okafor (and Ansah) will be gone by the mid 1st round (10-20 pick somewhere).

What he did to Oregon combined with a solid Combine will be what scouts will remember most.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 04:30 PM
I think Ansah may very well have a similar (within an inch or two) of JPP. And I think his first step may be better.

But I also dont think the argument of polished vs. raw means anything. Id take the raw guy with more upside any time.

Kruunch
01-07-2013, 04:41 PM
I think Ansah may very well have a similar (within an inch or two) of JPP. And I think his first step may be better.

But I also dont think the argument of polished vs. raw means anything. Id take the raw guy with more upside any time.

Yeah I saw someone posted he had a 91" wingspan (which can't CAN'T be accurate).

Polished vs. raw means a lot to me ... at least in so far as one is realized and one is only potential to be realized (sort of the difference between Hakeem Nicks and Kenny Britt).

Both are high motor guys for sure (good thing). Both have outstanding rush abilities (although I don't see how you can say Ansah has a better first step) and both play the run well (although I'd still argue Okafor edges Ansah here as well). Okafor played against better competition and produced on the biggest stage.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGo3BVi_7Do

(Again let me repeat ... I'd be thrilled with either ... just wanted opinions of one vs. the other)

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 04:45 PM
I was comparing Ansah vs JPP. Okafor is the quickest out the gates of the three. Though he is by far the smallest. 3" and maybe 10-20 pounds smaller. (30 pounds smaller than JPP)

Kruunch
01-07-2013, 04:59 PM
I was comparing Ansah vs JPP. Okafor is the quickest out the gates of the three. Though he is by far the smallest. 3" and maybe 10-20 pounds smaller. (30 pounds smaller than JPP)

I hate the wiggle room measurements seem to have before the Combine ... I have Ansah at 6'5 270 and Okafar at 6'5 265. I know both put on weight since their freshmen years (I believe both entered around 230ish).

I've seen Ansah listed as 6'6 on some sites and Okafor at 6'4 1/2 (shrug).

I have no problem with anyone saying Ansah edges Okafor from a sheer athletic standpoint (and most Giants fans will probably agree that we take the more athletically inclined generally speaking).

Okafor just seems more devastating to me (combination smarts, football talent and awareness).

myles2424
01-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Am i the only one thats not impressed but any of the DE's? (that could actually be on the board)....

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:55 PM
Am i the only one thats not impressed but any of the DE's? (that could actually be on the board)....

Just curious but what DEs in recent years have you been impressed by?

Kruunch
01-07-2013, 06:03 PM
Am i the only one thats not impressed but any of the DE's? (that could actually be on the board)....


Might want to watch some tape ... some pretty impressive guys out there this year.

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 07:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbdojf5lV1k

Okafor is pretty nice..

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 08:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGo3BVi_7Do

Okafor 2012 highlights.. I think Im a big fan of this guy now..

penguinfarmer
01-07-2013, 08:55 PM
Okafor's probably my favorite end right now in that range mainly due to his pass rushing abilities. He just looks fast and relentless out there. In terms of the rungame, Okafor's looked to be more of the player set the edge and guard against the bounce, whereas Ansah can just disengage and power through regardless of being double teamed. Can just be what's asked of them, but I've seen Okafor put his hand down at the 5 and just blow past the guard with speed and quickness.

nycsportzfan
01-07-2013, 09:31 PM
Okafor's probably my favorite end right now in that range mainly due to his pass rushing abilities. He just looks fast and relentless out there. In terms of the rungame, Okafor's looked to be more of the player set the edge and guard against the bounce, whereas Ansah can just disengage and power through regardless of being double teamed. Can just be what's asked of them, but I've seen Okafor put his hand down at the 5 and just blow past the guard with speed and quickness. There both very good prospects.. Okafor reminds me alot of Andre Branch from last yrs draft, who i also liked... Ansah reminds me of JPP.. Both fine players, but i think Ansah is the higher ceiling player, and only one of 2 worth a top 20seclection..

myles2424
01-07-2013, 10:55 PM
Just curious but what DEs in recent years have you been impressed by? Maybe I should reword that.
As far as a every down possible 1st round 4-3 DEs, im not impressed....The mingo kid & Jordan dont fit that mold...Ansah is slightly overrated...

myles2424
01-07-2013, 11:14 PM
Just curious but what DEs in recent years have you been impressed by?

I'm not bashing any of these guys, just saying from what ive seen, none of these guys are looking great as 4-3 DEs...but thats from what ive seen, havent done extensive research...but in recent years, greg hardy, michael johnson, robert quinn, brandon graham, jpp, orakpo, mercillus are all guys that showed up on tape from what I saw...

penguinfarmer
01-07-2013, 11:16 PM
After Ansah and Okafor, there is a pretty significant drop off in talent at the position. So if you don't like any of these guys, can we just assume you don't like any at all?

Carter.525
01-07-2013, 11:17 PM
Okafor is growing on me.. could be a nice option at#19

Kruunch
01-08-2013, 12:48 PM
I'm not bashing any of these guys, just saying from what ive seen, none of these guys are looking great as 4-3 DEs...but thats from what ive seen, havent done extensive research...but in recent years, greg hardy, michael johnson, robert quinn, brandon graham, jpp, orakpo, mercillus are all guys that showed up on tape from what I saw...

This draft seems pretty deep at DE to me.

I can understand not being in love with a guy like Sam Montgomery (he's over rated imo) but how do you look at Okafor or Ansah and say they're not eye popping?

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 01:12 PM
After Ansah and Okafor, there is a pretty significant drop off in talent at the position. So if you don't like any of these guys, can we just assume you don't like any at all?

I dont agree. I look at a guy like Tank Carradine, who prior to his injury was rated ahead of Ansah by virtually everyone, and ahead of Okafor by some, and I think this kid could end up being the steal of the draft. He was having a monster year this year vs both the run and the pass.

Kruunch
01-08-2013, 01:54 PM
I dont agree. I look at a guy like Tank Carradine, who prior to his injury was rated ahead of Ansah by virtually everyone, and ahead of Okafor by some, and I think this kid could end up being the steal of the draft. He was having a monster year this year vs both the run and the pass.

Only saw starting action as a senior and only then after the starting DE went down.

So he played one season as a starter (great stats) and promptly blew out his knee.

No way I use a first round flyer on this guy (projected as an early to mid 4th rounder currently).

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 01:59 PM
Only saw starting action as a senior and only then after the starting DE went down.

So he played one season as a starter (great stats) and promptly blew out his knee.

No way I use a first round flyer on this guy (projected as an early to mid 4th rounder currently).


I'm not at all suggesting using a 1st rounder on him. Did you see the comment I was replying to? I was just not agreeing that there is sa huge talent dropoff after Ansah and Okafor. There are a lot of outside guys to like this year imho.

penguinfarmer
01-08-2013, 11:52 PM
Carradine ahead of Okafor? I find that highly unlikely...

BlueSanta
01-09-2013, 12:41 AM
Carradine ahead of Okafor? I find that highly unlikely...Nobody is saying he is a better prospect NOW, but prior to his injury Carradine was being talked about as 1st round talent in the same range as Okafor.

penguinfarmer
01-09-2013, 07:05 AM
What sources are these then? I've consistently seen him at best late second round, but usually in the third. And even those I take with a grain of salt.

BlueSanta
01-09-2013, 10:41 AM
What sources are these then? I've consistently seen him at best late second round, but usually in the third. And even those I take with a grain of salt.

There is a thing called the internet, you can do searches and stuff on it, Check it out.

I just did 1 for "Tank carradine 1st rounder" and the search came up with tons of sites that had him as a 1st rounder prior to his injury. Heck, even NYCsportfan mocked him to us as a 1st rounder in these very forums at one point. Here was the 1st listed article tho if you havent figured out how to use the internet:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/26/florida-states-likely-first-round-pick-tank-carradine-suffers-torn-acl/

He led the nation in sacks and tackles for a loss at one point I beleive. You must not follow college football if you are surprised to hear that he was considered a 1st round talent prior to his injury.

penguinfarmer
01-09-2013, 07:34 PM
If you want to be a smug b.astard. Then go on right ahead. Sorry I didn't appease your love affair for butt buddy Tank. I never even had posted any negatives outside of I never considered him a first rounder. Boohoo?

Kruunch
01-10-2013, 10:35 AM
Ease up guys ... they're all just opinions.

nycsportzfan
01-10-2013, 11:15 AM
There is a thing called the internet, you can do searches and stuff on it, Check it out.

I just did 1 for "Tank carradine 1st rounder" and the search came up with tons of sites that had him as a 1st rounder prior to his injury. Heck, even NYCsportfan mocked him to us as a 1st rounder in these very forums at one point. Here was the 1st listed article tho if you havent figured out how to use the internet:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/26/florida-states-likely-first-round-pick-tank-carradine-suffers-torn-acl/

He led the nation in sacks and tackles for a loss at one point I beleive. You must not follow college football if you are surprised to hear that he was considered a 1st round talent prior to his injury. Yes sir, Carradine most certainly was a 1st rder before injury.. By most actually.. He worked his way to that point during the season with his huge numbers.. Hence, he'd be a great guy to look at in the late 2nd/early 3rd rd range if a team wants to gamble on geting a 1st rd talent later on, or getting a guy whos injury has made em half the player he was..

BlueSanta
01-11-2013, 07:59 PM
If you want to be a smug b.astard. Then go on right ahead. Sorry I didn't appease your love affair for butt buddy Tank. I never even had posted any negatives outside of I never considered him a first rounder. Boohoo?


Sorry for being smug, but c'mon you "seriously doubted" anyone had Carradine so high when all you had to do was a little search for yourself. Im not your do boy. Especially since the search would have taken less time than any of your posts.

You asked for a link, and you got it with a little "you're lazy for asking" thrown in.

BlueSanta
01-11-2013, 08:01 PM
If you want to be a smug b.astard. Then go on right ahead. Sorry I didn't appease your love affair for butt buddy Tank. I never even had posted any negatives outside of I never considered him a first rounder. Boohoo?


Sorry for being smug, but c'mon you "seriously doubted" anyone had Carradine so high when all you had to do was a little search for yourself. Im not your do boy. Especially since the search would have taken less time than any of your posts.

You asked for a link, and you got it with a little "you're lazy for asking" thrown in.

I mean no slight to Okafor either. He is a very good prospect. I was just responding to the notion that after Okafor/Ansah there is a huge droppoff. I do not agree with that.

TheEnigma
01-11-2013, 08:53 PM
Wasn't there serious debate between FSU fans on who the superior player was in regards to Werner and Carradine? Dang shame Tank got injured because it would be interesting to see how far apart the two got drafted from one another.

Mlerman17
01-12-2013, 04:05 AM
Ansah seems to be much more stout in the run game than okafor IMO. Okafor seems to try and get up the field and takes himself out of the play against draws and other runs. However, okafor is much more advanced at this point in terms of pash rushing ability. I thing he could be a pash rushing factor as a rookie. Another thing that annoys me is that Texas has him stand up and rush far too often especially since he seems to get more pressure with his hand in the dirt.

Redeyejedi
01-12-2013, 10:08 AM
Ansah seems to be much more stout in the run game than okafor IMO. Okafor seems to try and get up the field and takes himself out of the play against draws and other runs. However, okafor is much more advanced at this point in terms of pash rushing ability. I thing he could be a pash rushing factor as a rookie. Another thing that annoys me is that Texas has him stand up and rush far too often especially since he seems to get more pressure with his hand in the dirt. they line up differently and are asked to do vastly different things. Ansah doesnt line up very much outside the Tackles.Most of his snaps he has B gap responsibility so U wont see him fly around the corner like Okafor. Ansah doesnt get anywhere near as many opportunities on the edge. I believe Ansah could be a beast of an inside pass rusher. Tuck was never a great edge rusher. When Tuck and the Giants were at theirbest he was coming after the QB inside. The Giants dont have that ability anymore. I think Ansah could give that back to them. The ideal for me would be to see Ansah taken in the 1st round and then the Giants landing a Blitzer/ 3rd down pass rusher maybe he could be a full time LB type

penguinfarmer
01-12-2013, 12:17 PM
Sorry for being smug, but c'mon you "seriously doubted" anyone had Carradine so high when all you had to do was a little search for yourself. Im not your do boy. Especially since the search would have taken less time than any of your posts.

You asked for a link, and you got it with a little "you're lazy for asking" thrown in.

I mean no slight to Okafor either. He is a very good prospect. I was just responding to the notion that after Okafor/Ansah there is a huge droppoff. I do not agree with that.

Where did I ask for a link? I asked which sources [ESPN, CBS, NFL.com etc. etc.] all of which I take with a grain of salt. The fact you can infer laziness or even sarcasm from my posts is on you.

Mlerman17
01-12-2013, 12:31 PM
they line up differently and are asked to do vastly different things. Ansah doesnt line up very much outside the Tackles.Most of his snaps he has B gap responsibility so U wont see him fly around the corner like Okafor. Ansah doesnt get anywhere near as many opportunities on the edge. I believe Ansah could be a beast of an inside pass rusher. Tuck was never a great edge rusher. When Tuck and the Giants were at theirbest he was coming after the QB inside. The Giants dont have that ability anymore. I think Ansah could give that back to them. The ideal for me would be to see Ansah taken in the 1st round and then the Giants landing a Blitzer/ 3rd down pass rusher maybe he could be a full time LB typeSo u would want ansah to line up inside on third down? That would be deadly if we could a situational edge rusher later in the draft or someone already on the roster I.e. ojomo/Tracy to be effective. However, I am still wary of crafting ansah and having him play as an end in a 4-3. He has never played there and these transitions are never guaranteed no matter how athletic or much potential is there. Okafor is the safer pick IMO and right now the giants can't afford to miss with our Eli window closing every year.