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View Full Version : Is Victor Cruz fast? Or is he just a good route runner?



Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 04:42 PM
Ive read a few posts on here which stated cruz doesnt really have a lot of speed. Obviously i disagree but im curious to know what a lot of you think..

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 04:43 PM
Ive read a few posts on here which stated cruz doesnt really have a lot of speed. Obviously i disagree but im curious to know what a lot of you think..
He's definitely fast. Not "Mike Wallace" fast. But can still outrun most corners.

BeatYale
01-07-2013, 04:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwfF_cFLMSE

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 04:44 PM
Well he's not slow, but he's not praised for his speed either, more so his big play making ability and agility.

Mlerman17
01-07-2013, 04:45 PM
he is both fast and a good route runner

BJacobs aka The Problem
01-07-2013, 04:47 PM
He's got good quickness and acceleration along with a pretty decent top gear. Like someone mentioned above, he's not Mike Wallace fast, but when you add the quickness and acceleration, he's fast enough to burn most defensive backs in the league.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 04:50 PM
He has very average speed. But he is explosive laterally. Which in the football world is just as good as being explosive vertically

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Well he's not slow, but he's not praised for his speed either, more so his big play making ability and agility.

In your opinion, is his speed above average, below average, or average

Ruttiger711
01-07-2013, 04:53 PM
He's very quick on breaks, change of direction etc but not the highest top end speed.

TuckandRolle
01-07-2013, 04:54 PM
He's well above average for speed, but does not have elite speed.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 04:54 PM
In your opinion, is his speed above average, below average, or averageAverage

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 04:54 PM
He looked pretty fast blowing by the Jets last year...

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 04:55 PM
He's well above average for speed, but does not have elite speed.

Compared to who is he "way above average"?

Offensive linemen?

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 04:56 PM
Average

interesting. If cruz is average, what would you rate nicks when healthy? average or below average?

sharick88
01-07-2013, 04:57 PM
Both.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 04:57 PM
interesting. If cruz is average, what would you rate nicks when healthy? average or below average?

There is no doubt Nicks is faster than Cruz and is much better at running vertically

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 04:57 PM
interesting. If cruz is average, what would you rate nicks when healthy? average or below average?In terms of speed? Average. Not the fast type either.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 04:58 PM
There is no doubt Nicks is faster than Cruz and is much better at running verticallyNicks is actually not faster than Cruz, but he is more physical.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 04:58 PM
There is no doubt Nicks is faster than Cruz and is much better at running vertically

Interesting.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 04:58 PM
Nicks is actually not faster than Cruz, but he is more physical.

Yes he most certainly is faster.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 04:58 PM
There is no doubt Nicks is faster than Cruz and is much better at running vertically
I always have thought that Cruz is faster than Nicks.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 04:59 PM
I always have thought that Cruz is faster than Nicks. Agreed.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 04:59 PM
Yes he most certainly is faster.No he is not. Nicks ran a 4.63 in the 40. Cruz ran a 4.45.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:00 PM
I always have thought that Cruz is faster than Nicks.

Why have you thought that?

TuckandRolle
01-07-2013, 05:01 PM
Compared to who is he "way above average"?

Offensive linemen?

Vincent Jackson, average speed. Brandon Marshall, average speed.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:01 PM
No he is not. Nicks ran a 4.63 in the 40. Cruz ran a 4.45.

I dont think nicks ran that slow. because that would be considered below average. Linebackers run faster than that nowadays.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:02 PM
Why have you thought that?
Well I'm just going by what I see on the field.
But for what it's worth, Nicks combine 40 time was 4.51 and Cruz was 4.47. Thats not a big difference in that one measurable. But it is what it is.
To me, Cruz looks faster on the field as well.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:02 PM
No he is not. Nicks ran a 4.63 in the 40. Cruz ran a 4.45.

Nicks also was coming off a hamstring injury and did not prepare for the combine. If you remember the talk was that he gained like 15 pounds because all he could do was sit on his butt

Nicks on the field is substantially faster than Cruz. Cruz gets separation by using a two way go and his lateral ability. Nicks gets seperation with his size, strength, and speed.

Find the transcript where gilbride is asked about nicks and Cruz and their speed. Gilbride says nicks absolutely can run vertically while they have to scheme to get Cruz deep

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:02 PM
I dont think nicks ran that slow. because that would be considered below average. Linebackers run faster than that nowadays.Then it's below average speed, but you can look it up. Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63 as well.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Nicks also was coming off a hamstring injury and did not prepare for the combine. If you remember the talk was that he gained like 15 pounds because all he could do was sit on his buttNicks on the field is substantially faster than Cruz. Cruz gets separation by using a two way go and his lateral ability. Nicks gets seperation with his size, strength, and speed.Find the transcript where gilbride is asked about nicks and Cruz and their speed. Gilbride says nicks absolutely can run vertically while they have to scheme to get Cruz deepIn terms of speed, I just disagree with you. Cruz just looks much faster to me on the field.

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Cruz ran a 4.49, 40 and Nicks ran a 4.51, 40 but that doesn't matter they both get open different ways. Plus we are talking 10th's of a second. To me Nicks still looks faster then Cruz when healthy.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Vincent Jackson, average speed. Brandon Marshall, average speed.

Then Cruz is average speed too. Both of those receivers ran similar times to Cruz in the 40.

Cruz 4.48, Marshall 4.51, Jackson 4.46

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Then it's below average speed, but you can look it up. Larry Fitzgerald ran a 4.63 as well.

i think its 4.51 when they average it out.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66015&draftyear=2009&genpos=wr

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:05 PM
i think its 4.51 when they average it out.http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66015&draftyear=2009&genpos=wrI see, still a bit slower but just not as much.

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 05:05 PM
i think its 4.51 when they average it out.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66015&draftyear=2009&genpos=wrcorrect...

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:06 PM
Then Cruz is average speed too. Both of those receivers ran similar times to Cruz in the 40.

Cruz 4.48, Marshall 4.51, Jackson 4.46

Right now cruz is a lot faster than vicent jackson. He doesnt run 4.46 now. Which is why i dont look too hard into 40 times but more toward on field speed.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:06 PM
Nicks is more of a 4.4 flat type of guy when he's healthy. Might even run sub 4.4

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:06 PM
Nicks also was coming off a hamstring injury and did not prepare for the combine. If you remember the talk was that he gained like 15 pounds because all he could do was sit on his butt

Nicks on the field is substantially faster than Cruz. Cruz gets separation by using a two way go and his lateral ability. Nicks gets seperation with his size, strength, and speed.

Find the transcript where gilbride is asked about nicks and Cruz and their speed. Gilbride says nicks absolutely can run vertically while they have to scheme to get Cruz deep

Quite honestly I was surprised to see that Nicks ran that fast. Both are great players but it seems that Cruz just plays a bit faster. His acceleration is off the charts as well. Maybe because he's a little smaller.
To me they both have the wheels to outrun defenders. To me they are both fast players.
But to answer the OP's question...Cruz IS fast.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:07 PM
Nicks is more of a 4.4 flat type of guy when he's healthy. Might even run sub 4.4
I'm sorry...but no friggin way!

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:07 PM
Right now cruz is a lot faster than vicent jackson. He doesnt run 4.46 now. Which is why i dont look too hard into 40 times but more toward on field speed.

And when I watch Cruz on the field I don't see a guy who has much speed at all.

The idea that Cruz is fast is stemming from people seeing him make big plays.

The two aren't related.

TuckandRolle
01-07-2013, 05:08 PM
Right now cruz is a lot faster than vicent jackson. He doesnt run 4.46 now. Which is why i dont look too hard into 40 times but more toward on field speed.

I agree.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:09 PM
I'm sorry...but no friggin way!

Then you need to watch him on coaches tape.

He's not in the elite speed type WR category, but he's in that next step below it.

Cruz is a couple steps below. More similar to a welker type.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:09 PM
I see, still a bit slower but just not as much.

it terms of running, .05 seconds is considered a lot. There is a big difference between a 4.45 and a 4.50. In the case of 4.63 is huge compared to 4.51. I ran a 4.59 and i know nicks is faster than me. Thats how i know he had to have ran a faster time or else he wouldnt be in the NFL lol.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Cruz has great acceleration in the open field but he is not naturally fast. Very quick, very agile but does not have pure speed like a Mike Wallace type. Nicks isnt very fast either, but very physical and can beat you off the line. Victor is slightly a little faster than Nicks IMO. Both guys are lethal.

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 05:10 PM
Quite honestly I was surprised to see that Nicks ran that fast. Both are great players but it seems that Cruz just plays a bit faster. His acceleration is off the charts as well. Maybe because he's a little smaller.
To me they both have the wheels to outrun defenders. To me they are both fast players.
But to answer the OP's question...Cruz IS fast.Yeah but Nicks physicality off the LOS is what separates him from Cruz both have great attributes and feed off each other.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:11 PM
And when I watch Cruz on the field I don't see a guy who has much speed at all.

The idea that Cruz is fast is stemming from people seeing him make big plays.

The two aren't related.
OK..that pass he caught on the sidelines vs. Dallas week 17 last year,...that kid just outran everyone. The kid is fast. You're just trying to be persnickety.
(My wife will be so proud I actually used that word in a sentence)

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:11 PM
And when I watch Cruz on the field I don't see a guy who has much speed at all.

The idea that Cruz is fast is stemming from people seeing him make big plays.

The two aren't related.

this isnt related to speed? I also want to point out cruz was hugging the sidelines which gives defenders an angle advantage to catch him from.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwfF_cFLMSE

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:13 PM
OK..that pass he caught on the sidelines vs. Dallas week 17 last year,...that kid just outran everyone. The kid is fast. You're just trying to be persnickety.
(My wife will be so proud I actually used that word in a sentence)

Dallas had no speed in its secondary last year. The fastest guy they had was A 33 year old Newman who ran himself right out of the play, then a safety who took a horrible angle.

Brandon Jacobs outran the cowboys defense too once.

Neither is an indication of great speed.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:13 PM
Then you need to watch him on coaches tape.

He's not in the elite speed type WR category, but he's in that next step below it.

Cruz is a couple steps below. More similar to a welker type.
I'm not watching him on coaches tape for God's sake. Calm down with that friggin elitist nonsense. We all have eyes and we all watch our players play.
When you say sub. 4.4, that's just not the case with Nicks. He's deceptively fast, but not the burner you are describing.

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 05:14 PM
this isnt related to speed? I also want to point out cruz was hugging the sidelines which gives defenders an angle advantage to catch him from.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwfF_cFLMSEThat play brings me chills everytime I see it, lol. What an awesome play.

Generation Eli
01-07-2013, 05:14 PM
Speed: 91
Agility: 90
Quickness: 96
Route Running: 88

(these are not madding ratings, I dont even own madden)

His speed, agility and quickness is what sets him apart and gets him open. His route running is good, not great

Hes fast but I can name 2 players on this team that are faster. Hes got really thick legs as well; that will inhibit many people from running fast.

again, hes quicker than fast and more agile than fast. He not a speed demon

Hes only a tick faster than guys like Randle

and to the person who said he can outrun most CB, you are dreaming. 4.5 doesnt get passed most corners, at least not in this generations NFL. These cats can fly.

At this point, I couldnt care less about elite speed. Be quick, agile, run great routes and have good hands. Those are attributes I look for as far as skill level. I'll take a 4.65 WR with those skills anyday over a 4.25 (does one actually exist?) WR.

after that its be smart and play hard.

Elite speed is overrated. A decent jam and proper footwork will stop those types....except when you've got speed, size and power ala T bleepin O.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:14 PM
Dallas had no speed in its secondary last year. The fastest guy they had was A 33 year old Newman who ran himself right out of the play, then a safety who took a horrible angle.

Brandon Jacobs outran the cowboys defense too once.

Neither is an indication of great speed.
Brandon Jacobs WAS fast. When he got a head of steam he was really fast.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:15 PM
this isnt related to speed? I also want to point out cruz was hugging the sidelines which gives defenders an angle advantage to catch him from.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwfF_cFLMSE


I see lateral explosion making two guys kiss. Then he barely out runs a safety who is coming from the other side of the field.

Average speed. Explosive laterally

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 05:16 PM
Cruz looks fast but watch Nicks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4MzLqAjJig

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:16 PM
Speed: 91
Agility: 90
Quickness: 96
Route Running: 88

(these are not madding ratings, I dont even own madden)

His speed, agility and quickness is what sets him apart and gets him open. His route running is good, not great

Hes fast but I can name 2 players on this team that are faster. Hes got really thick legs as well; that will inhibit many people from running fast.

again, hes quicker than fast and more agile than fast. He not a speed demon

Hes only a tick faster than guys like Randle

and to the person who said he can outrun most CB, you are dreaming. 4.5 doesnt get passed most corners, at least not in this generations NFL. These cats can fly.

At this point, I couldnt care less about elite speed. Be quick, agile, run great routes and have good hands. Those are attributes I look for as far as skill level. I'll take a 4.65 WR with those skills anyday over a 4.25 (does one actually exist?) WR.

after that its be smart and play hard.

Elite speed is overrated. A decent jam and proper footwork will stop those types....except when you've got speed, size and power ala T bleepin O.

Is this Cruz or Nicks?

TuckandRolle
01-07-2013, 05:17 PM
Cruz looks fast but watch Nicks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4MzLqAjJig
That was impressive. MAN, I can not wait to have a healthy Nicks back.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:17 PM
Brandon Jacobs WAS fast. When he got a head of steam he was really fast.

But he wasn't. He was average. Perhaps for a 265 pound guy he was fast.

Eliscruzzz
01-07-2013, 05:18 PM
That was impressive. MAN, I can not wait to have a healthy Nicks back.Me too with his injury this year hurt this team real bad. You watch that and watch him this year...smh. Not even close.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:19 PM
I see lateral explosion making two guys kiss. Then he barely out runs a safety who is coming from the other side of the field.

Average speed. Explosive laterally

safety was in front of him and had an angle. he took his angle away and past him while hugging the sidelines.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:21 PM
safety was in front of him and had an angle. he took his angle away and past him while hugging the sidelines.

He outran smith who was in the middle of the field. Smith, for reference, runs like a 4.65. Maybe slower.
The backside safety #30 would have caught him had the field been longer.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:21 PM
But he wasn't. He was average. Perhaps for a 265 pound guy he was fast.
You just argue just to argue.
Generally I like that in a guy but with you its somehow more irritating.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:23 PM
You just argue just to argue.
Generally I like that in a guy but with you its somehow more irritating.

Jacobs ran a 4.55 at the combine. That's not "fast".

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:28 PM
Jacobs ran a 4.55 at the combine. That's not "fast".

close to the time nicks ran.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:28 PM
Jacobs ran a 4.55 at the combine. That's not "fast".
Because it was a 40 yard dash and he's 265 lbs. That's my point. As I said...when he gets a head of steam".
He would outrun a lot of guys who had better 40 times in the 100 yard dash.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:30 PM
close to the time nicks ran.

Nicks was coming off a serious hamstring sprain. He ran no drills at the combine apart from the 40. He did not have any time to prepare to run the 40 and was obviously still not 100%.

A 4.51 injured + no training means he is substantially faster than that healthy and prepared. Closer to 4.4 flat. If not faster

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:31 PM
Because it was a 40 yard dash and he's 265 lbs. That's my point. As I said...when he gets a head of steam".
He would outrun a lot of guys who had better 40 times in the 100 yard dash.

Well if we are going to argue top speed, Anthony spencer did chase Jacobs down and tackle him as he reached the end zone.

Ruttiger711
01-07-2013, 05:33 PM
The Jets play and the play in the first Philly game last year are perfect examples of Cruz's above average quickness vs his average (for an NFL starting receiver) speed.

Cruz's quickness, the ability to shift and move laterally is the difference maker in the plays, its those moves that take the defenders out of the play and they are so out of it, any avg speed wide receiver should be able to score there.

Outrunning Eric Smith is no indication of speed whatsover.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:33 PM
Well if we are going to argue top speed, Anthony spencer did chase Jacobs down and tackle him as he reached the end zone.
I'm done with you on this.
The bottom line is that Victor Cruz is fast and you aren't. (In any way)

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:34 PM
The Jets play and the play in the first Philly game last year are perfect examples of Cruz's above average quickness vs his average (for an NFL starting receiver) speed.

Cruz's quickness, the ability to shift and move laterally is the difference maker in the plays, its those moves that take the defenders out of the play and they are so out of it, any avg speed wide receiver should be able to score there.

Outrunning Eric Smith is no indication of speed whatsover.

Exactly.

As I said, lateral speed is every bit as valuable as vertical speed in football. And Cruz may have the best lateral ability of any receiver in the league.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:35 PM
Nicks was coming off a serious hamstring sprain. He ran no drills at the combine apart from the 40. He did not have any time to prepare to run the 40 and was obviously still not 100%.

A 4.51 injured + no training means he is substantially faster than that healthy and prepared. Closer to 4.4 flat. If not faster

wait, you cant just assume he would have ran a 4.4 flat. Thats the same time Adrian Peterson ran. if nicks ran faster than that then that means he would be in the 4.3 range. I am now very much convinced that you are just spewing bull crap.

you're a sneaky guy. Ill leave it at that.

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:35 PM
wait, you cant just assume he would have ran a 4.4 flat. Thats the same time Adrian Peterson ran. if nicks ran faster than that then that means he would be in the 4.3 range. I am now very much convinced that you are just spewing bull crap.

you're a sneaky guy. Ill leave it at that.
He's worse than me I tell Ya.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:38 PM
wait, you cant just assume he would have ran a 4.4 flat. Thats the same time Adrian Peterson ran. if nicks ran faster than that then that means he would be in the 4.3 range. I am now very much convinced that you are just spewing bull crap.

you're a sneaky guy. Ill leave it at that.

My point is he is significantly faster than the 4.5 he ran injured and with no preparation. How much faster is up for debate.

Cruz wasent even invited to the combine so we have surface comparison issues with him too. Generally pro day times are the same or faster.


On field to me Nicks when healthy runs like he is a 4.4 flat runner. Cruz more of a 4.5

myles2424
01-07-2013, 05:39 PM
fast enough...

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:40 PM
He's worse than me I tell Ya.

When i say he is a sneaky guy, im actually serious. he is a sneaky guy

Morehead State
01-07-2013, 05:42 PM
When i say he is a sneaky guy, im actually serious. he is a sneaky guy
I was being self deprecating.
other than that...????

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 05:46 PM
I was being self deprecating.
other than that...????

Think about it Morehead.

Who would argue Victor Cruz being faster than nicks? I understand the argument that cruz has average speed. But who would state nicks is faster and that that nicks would run a 4.40, possibly faster. Who would say something that out of line?

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:48 PM
All I know is, Nicks is not faster than Cruz.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 05:50 PM
All I know is, Nicks is not faster than Cruz.

Except that he is. Everything supports that nicks is faster including gilbride who says that nicks is a better vertical receiver.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:52 PM
Except that he is. Everything supports that nicks is faster including gilbride who says that nicks is a better vertical receiver.To me, I don't think Nicks is faster than Cruz. Just watching the game, I don't see it.

Both have average speed anyway.

Rusty192
01-07-2013, 05:53 PM
When Nicks is healthy, agreed, he's faster than Cruz. Last years playoffs showcased that. He was blowing past guys and leaving them way behind the line of sight. I don't think the camera angles do it justice.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 05:55 PM
When Nicks is healthy, agreed, he's faster than Cruz. Last years playoffs showcased that. He was blowing past guys and leaving them way behind the line of sight. I don't think the camera angles do it justice.No



:D

Roosevelt
01-07-2013, 05:58 PM
Ive read a few posts on here which stated cruz doesnt really have a lot of speed. Obviously i disagree but im curious to know what a lot of you think..

No doubt he's fast. When he get's behind DB's he's gone.

Rusty192
01-07-2013, 06:01 PM
No



:DNicks being injured all year must have really affected a lot of people's memories of how much of a beast he is.

Flip Empty
01-07-2013, 06:01 PM
Eli Manning has a noodle arm and needs to work out.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 06:03 PM
Nicks being injured all year must have really affected a lot of people's memories of how much of a beast he is.It's not about that.

Both have average speed, but because Victor is smaller he's a little faster than Nicks.

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 06:04 PM
Eli Manning has a noodle arm and needs to work out.Eli Manning is faster than Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks.

Rusty192
01-07-2013, 06:05 PM
It's not about that.

Both have average speed, but because Victor is smaller he's a little faster than Nicks.He's faster because he's smaller?

juice33s
01-07-2013, 06:06 PM
My point is he is significantly faster than the 4.5 he ran injured and with no preparation. How much faster is up for debate.

Cruz wasent even invited to the combine so we have surface comparison issues with him too. Generally pro day times are the same or faster.


On field to me Nicks when healthy runs like he is a 4.4 flat runner. Cruz more of a 4.5
Pretty sure Nicks ran a 4.63 at the combine and Cruz ran a 4.47 at his pro day

Rudyy
01-07-2013, 06:06 PM
He's faster because he's smaller?It does give him a slight edge. Also, look at their combine numbers. They aren't FAR off but Cruz is slighlty faster than Nicks.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:12 PM
Pretty sure Nicks ran a 4.63 at the combine and Cruz ran a 4.47 at his pro day

Ill say it a third time. Nicks ran a 4.51 at the combine coming off a serious hamstring injury where he did nothing for a month or two before the combine but sit and rest it. If you recall, at the time there were all sorts of rumors of Nicks gaining like 20 pounds and being so out of shape because he couldnt train.

There is no doubt, if healthy, and with preperation, Nicks would have run significantly faster than a 4.51.

And Im going with 4.51 because that is the fastest verified time he ran.

juice33s
01-07-2013, 06:14 PM
Ill say it a third time. Nicks ran a 4.51 at the combine coming off a serious hamstring injury where he did nothing for a month or two before the combine but sit and rest it. If you recall, at the time there were all sorts of rumors of Nicks gaining like 20 pounds and being so out of shape because he couldnt train.

There is no doubt, if healthy, and with preperation, Nicks would have run significantly faster than a 4.51.

And Im going with 4.51 because that is the fastest verified time he ran.
Well his official combine time was 4.63....Cruz is faster, and you're probably the only person in the entire world who think Nicks is a sub 4.4 guy when healthy

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:16 PM
Well his official combine time was 4.63....Cruz is faster, and you're probably the only person in the entire world who think Nicks is a sub 4.4 guy when healthy

Official times are meaningless.

I said Nicks is probably around a 4.4 flat guy when healthy.

That doesnt put him in the elite speed type receiver class, like the DJac, Wallace, etc. Who IMO, are closer to 4.3 flat guys.

Ruttiger711
01-07-2013, 06:19 PM
Smaller receivers just look faster because their little legs have to take 12-13 steps where a taller guy will take 10-11. :)

Its a cartoon effect.

juice33s
01-07-2013, 06:20 PM
Nicks is more of a 4.4 flat type of guy when he's healthy. Might even run sub 4.4
I'll give him high 4.4, but saying he's close to 4.3 is ridiculous

Jahh
01-07-2013, 06:21 PM
Cruz is shifty, quick but not a burner. He gets separation but acceleration and change of direction.

juice33s
01-07-2013, 06:21 PM
Smaller receivers just look faster because their little legs have to take 12-13 steps where a taller guy will take 10-11. :)

Its a cartoon effect.
Might also be him shattering NYG and NFL records for a reciever

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:23 PM
I'll give him high 4.4, but saying he's close to 4.3 is ridiculous

He ran essentially a high 4.4 though. A 4.51. With a hamstring injury and no preparation.

NYGfanNC
01-07-2013, 06:24 PM
He's faster than me

juice33s
01-07-2013, 06:27 PM
He ran essentially a high 4.4 though. A 4.51. With a hamstring injury and no preparation.
Thats where you're wrong though. Nicks was plenty prepared for the combine (4.63), it was his pro day where he was out of shape

ashleymarie
01-07-2013, 06:29 PM
Eli Manning is faster than Victor Cruz and Hakeem Nicks.

+1 LOL

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:29 PM
Thats where you're wrong though. Nicks was plenty prepared for the combine (4.63), it was his pro day where he was out of shape

Nicks injured his hamstring on his first 40 run, and did not do the rest of the drills at the combine. Then he did not run a 40 at his proday.

Ruttiger711
01-07-2013, 06:30 PM
Might also be him shattering NYG and NFL records for a reciever

His big play ability is the reason for the records. His big plays come mostly from his quickness - not top end speed.

juice33s
01-07-2013, 06:35 PM
Nicks injured his hamstring on his first 40 run, and did not do the rest of the drills at the combine. Then he did not run a 40 at his proday.
Actually he injured it during postional drills, not during his 40
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article16529.aspx

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:36 PM
Yet he ran the 40 and did the vert jump, hmmmm.....He weighed in at 212 at the combine, his pro day he weighed 226 and that was where everyone questioned his condtitioning

He did the vert jump first, when running his first 40 he got hurt. Then he didnt do any more drills at the combine.

Proday he did just a 3 cone and a shuttle.

Rusty192
01-07-2013, 06:52 PM
It does give him a slight edge. Also, look at their combine numbers. They aren't FAR off but Cruz is slighlty faster than Nicks.It doesn't really give him any edge. What is Cruz, like an inch shorter? 40 times don't mean much in regards to game speed. Nicks is fast. When he doesn't have any foot or knee issues he's def faster than Cruz.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:54 PM
Actually he injured it during postional drills, not during his 40
http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article16529.aspx

Good find. Ive been trying to find that info.

So he ran the 40 healthy, or at least healthier than he was later that day. Ran a 4.51.

We still have no comparable for Cruz. A 4.48 at a proday is sort of meaningless.

And you still have the Manningham sort of issue. Manningham ran a 4.59 at the combine, lol. Nobody could tell me he was by far the slowest receiver on the team.

If we go by combine 40 times, Steve Smith is the fastest recent giants receiver. lol. Ran a 4.44

Diamondring
01-07-2013, 06:56 PM
Cruz is fast and OK route runner.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 06:56 PM
Good find. Ive been trying to find that info.

So he ran the 40 healthy, or at least healthier than he was later that day. Ran a 4.51.


So you were wrong?

GameTime
01-07-2013, 06:57 PM
Very good all around receiver. Fast and runs good routes. Better from the slot on a more consistent basis then the wide out spot.
Although if he is going to get antsy in the middle he needs to stay on the outside....

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 06:59 PM
So you were wrong?

Yes. He ran a 4.51 healthy at the combine, but was injured and overweight and did not run it at his proday.

That website that was linked to reports Nicks ran a 4.49 officially.

Also an article before that says Nicks claims he will run in the low 4.4s.

And then that he scored an 11 on the wonderlic.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 07:02 PM
So you were wrong?


Yes. He ran a 4.51 healthy at the combine

thats all i am interested in. You admitting that you're wrong.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 07:05 PM
thats all i am interested in. You admitting that you're wrong.

I love how people take this as some sort of victory. lol.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 07:09 PM
I love how people take this as some sort of victory. lol.

There is nothing wrong about admitting when you're wrong. I just wish you'd do it more often.

slipknottin
01-07-2013, 07:10 PM
There is nothing wrong about admitting when you're wrong. I just wish you'd do it more often. It would save me time in all of those long debates we've had.

I dont have a problem admitting Im wrong.


I still stand by my statement that Nicks on the field looks like a low 4.4 guy and is substantially faster than Cruz, who to me looks like he runs a 4.5

JSpin
01-07-2013, 07:12 PM
He's probably our fastest WR other than JJ possibly. Greater route runner than a burner though.

JSpin
01-07-2013, 07:13 PM
I dont have a problem admitting Im wrong.


I still stand by my statement that Nicks on the field looks like a low 4.4 guy and is substantially faster than Cruz, who to me looks like he runs a 4.5

What?? Nicks looks like a high 4.5 guy on the field and Cruz looks like the low 4.4 guy. What games have you been watching?

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 07:15 PM
I dont have a problem admitting Im wrong.


I still stand by my statement that Nicks on the field looks like a low 4.4 guy and is substantially faster than Cruz, who to me looks like he runs a 4.5

Eh. ive heard crazier things said.

TheEnigma
01-07-2013, 07:17 PM
It's not like we have a burner on the roster in terms of our WRs. Cruz offers big play ability not because of his speed but what he can do while cutting. Others have mentioned his lateral speed and he just has a special talent in keeping that speed while making cuts.

40 times are **** anyway for field comparisons. Kendall Wright had a 4.61 speed at his combine but you can't seriously tell me he is that slow during a game. Some guys just have bad performances.

jomo
01-07-2013, 07:19 PM
How often has he been dragged down from behind?

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 07:20 PM
It's not like we have a burner on the roster in terms of our WRs. Cruz offers big play ability not because of his speed but what he can do while cutting. Others have mentioned his lateral speed and he just has a special talent in keeping that speed while making cuts.

40 times are **** anyway for field comparisons. Kendall Wright had a 4.61 speed at his combine but you can't seriously tell me he is that slow during a game. Some guys just have bad performances.

You think nicks is faster?

Diamondring
01-07-2013, 07:20 PM
What?? Nicks looks like a high 4.5 guy on the field and Cruz looks like the low 4.4 guy. What games have you been watching?He did? I thought he said Nicks looks like a low 4.4 while Cruz looks like he runs a 4.5.

Diamondring
01-07-2013, 07:21 PM
You think nicks is faster?I think Nicks is faster than Cruz.

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 07:21 PM
He did? I thought he said Nicks looks like a low 4.4 while Cruz looks like he runs a 4.5.

he was stating the opposite

Ruttiger711
01-07-2013, 07:28 PM
I think Nicks is faster than Cruz.+1Appearance is a big issue here. I know Nicks isn't taller by much but his frame is long - these guys never appear to be running as fast as they are.

nycsportzfan
01-07-2013, 07:33 PM
He's definitely fast. Not "Mike Wallace" fast. But can still outrun most corners. Ya, hes slippery as well as quick.. The times i saw em at UMASS and read about em in the paper, i came to conclusion he was more quick then fast, and a slippery after the catch WR.. Hes got enough speed to get behind a DB all day though, but he certainly is where he is becuase of his ability after the catch, route running...

TheEnigma
01-07-2013, 07:41 PM
+1Appearance is a big issue here. I know Nicks isn't taller by much but his frame is long - these guys never appear to be running as fast as they are.

I'd say that camera angles play a decent part. The overview angle doesn't really do the outside receivers justice since there's usually only 1-2 other guys to compare with while RBs and anyone catching passes in the middle of the field have a ton more players involved. A sideline view would serve the outside receivers better.

jomo
01-07-2013, 07:42 PM
I think Nicks is faster than Cruz.Clearly, when healthy, they are both fast enough.

RoanokeFan
01-07-2013, 07:49 PM
Clearly, when healthy, they are both fast enough.

They complement each other and, when healthy, could be a top 5 tandem

Kez Simpson
01-07-2013, 07:59 PM
Why is their a big debate about Cruz's speed? This guy is freaking fast, has great agility, and is virtually uncoverable at times. Is he Sidney Rice fast? No. Is DJAX fast? No. However, if he gets the inside on a corner on a cover 1, good night, that's 6 points. We seen it as Giants fans more time than enough, why is it a question?:confused:

Nicks? He is deceptively fast, but he doesn't possess the acceleration nor agility of Victor Cruz.

dakotajoe
01-07-2013, 07:59 PM
I always thought Nicks was a slow WR and that was the knock on him coming out of college. That doesn't mean he is a bad WR, Jerry Rice reportedly ran a 4.71. Some of the all time greats are "slow". Nicks is extremely physical though with a sniff arm known to send defenders to their back.

Like others have said I think Cruz has good but not great vertical speed, fast enough to beat CBs when running good routes. All in all, he's pretty fast. On top of that his lateral quickness is off the charts but isn't as physical as a lot of WRs in the league.

dakotajoe
01-07-2013, 08:01 PM
.

GiantWarfare
01-07-2013, 08:12 PM
TBH I cant definitively tell who's faster but I'll say this. Cruz has elite burst/explosion so that might play a role as to why he might seem noticeably faster than Nicks. Nicks runs smoothly, like he's gliding so he looks slower than he actually is.

Generation Eli
01-07-2013, 08:19 PM
Is this Cruz or Nicks?

TIS BE CRUZ I TALKIN BOUT

Generation Eli
01-07-2013, 08:31 PM
Except that he is. Everything supports that nicks is faster including gilbride who says that nicks is a better vertical receiver.

being a better vertical receiver doesnt mean hes faster

also, if Gilbride meant faster, just look at who said it, nuff said

/end thread

Generation Eli
01-07-2013, 08:35 PM
Eli Manning has a noodle arm and needs to work out.

I wouldnt mind him actually toning up a bit. Just so I dont have to cringe when I look at him

this has nothing to do with his performance....on the football field.

gmen0820
01-07-2013, 08:46 PM
Maybe if Cruz worked out...

BParcells777
01-07-2013, 10:17 PM
I've never seen him caught from behind and I've never seen another Giants WR you could say that about since Homer Jones

giantsfan420
01-07-2013, 10:30 PM
this is the most unfairly worded two answer poll question i can recall. lol. there isnt an option up there that is worth voting on, so I'll do that thing when politicians make it know they didnt vote, is the word abstract, abstanded? dammit I used to be smart, well, used to not be dumb...well actually, i used to not be so dumb. thats fair, lol.

giantsfan420
01-07-2013, 10:31 PM
Maybe if Cruz worked out...haha classic. tell me u ddnt actually pick one of those options>

Marvelousmik
01-07-2013, 10:36 PM
you obviously just voted. the pole went from 23 - 5 to 23-6 just now. What you could do is log on a few of your other accounts and vote if you want. then the pole will go up, but even so i dont think enough will be in your favor.

B&RWarrior
01-08-2013, 12:52 AM
Nicks is our best route runner. Who's faster is debatable. I'm on the Nicks is better in all categories than Cruz debate except for agility, not better by much but better. If either leave then this offense won't be the same. Cruz is a good route runner, but not as good as SS was.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-08-2013, 12:55 AM
he's sneaky fast elusive.

Giant stuck in Texas
01-08-2013, 02:25 AM
The backside safety #30 would have caught him had the field been longer.

After watching my coaches tape, I confirmed that unlike Cruz, Coleman (#30) didn't have to hurdle a player and had a clean run down field. Making that not a very accurate assessment/opinion.

Morehead State
01-08-2013, 01:51 PM
After watching my coaches tape, I confirmed that unlike Cruz, Coleman (#30) didn't have to hurdle a player and had a clean run down field. Making that not a very accurate assessment/opinion.
Me too. I have my coaches tape constantly cued up in the projector. My analysis of the coaches tape is that Cruz is fast. I realize from the teachings of Slippy, that one can only discover these things from the coaches tape. Thats why I have coaches tape.

I'm trying to use the term "coaches tape" as often as possible so I can seem as smart as Slipnot who obviously has the coaches tape. But upon examination of my GMB coaches tape I've discovered that Slip isn't as smart as he thinks...even though he used coaches tape.

Marvelousmik
01-08-2013, 03:17 PM
All jokes a side, to do a lot of the things cruz has done on the field takes good speed. Im not going to say he is a burner but i definitely think he has above average speed. However, i could understand if some of you think his speed is average for an NFL receiver since there are probably a lot of other guys out there who are faster than him.

But To say nicks is faster is laughable. And to say nicks runs a 4.4 flat possibly faster is beyond laughable. its "420ish".