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View Full Version : If we could get Gruden would you fire Coughlin?



dayeh33
01-08-2013, 01:50 AM
I love Tom Coughlin as much as the next guy, but if Jon Gruden were interested in coaching the Giants would you fire Coughlin and hire him? There was a report from Ron Jaworski on Gruden being interested in coaching again but only in the right situation. Giants obviously would be considered a right situation. Would you hire him?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-08-2013, 01:52 AM
I love Tom Coughlin as much as the next guy, but if Jon Gruden were interested in coaching the Giants would you fire Coughlin and hire him? There was a report from Ron Jaworski on Gruden being interested in coaching again but only in the right situation. Giants obviously would be considered a right situation. Would you hire him?

be careful what you wish for.

ebick
01-08-2013, 01:55 AM
The report also hinted that the ony "interest" in Gruden seemed to be originating out of the Gruden camp.


The Plain Dealer reported Monday that the Cleveland Browns "might pursue" Gruden. We stayed away from the report because the wording indicated it was coming from Gruden's camp, hoping for a nibble. It didn't take long for a rebuttal. A "source with direct knowledge of the situation" told ProFootballTalk's Mike Florio that Gruden isn't on the Browns' radar, and that he won't be.

PennState1
01-08-2013, 01:58 AM
Seriously? TC brought us 2 rings already! I would like a D coordinator with the fire and passion Gruden shows

Flip Empty
01-08-2013, 02:00 AM
Commentators drop Gruden's name every off-season. Until he says something himself, he won't be coaching anywhere.

And no, I wouldn't fire Coughlin.

Rudyy
01-08-2013, 02:02 AM
Hell no.

joemorrisforprez
01-08-2013, 02:02 AM
I love Tom Coughlin as much as the next guy, but if Jon Gruden were interested in coaching the Giants would you fire Coughlin and hire him? There was a report from Ron Jaworski on Gruden being interested in coaching again but only in the right situation. Giants obviously would be considered a right situation. Would you hire him?

No. I like Gruden alot, but frankly, I think Coughlin is one of the best coaches in the league. He's in Belichick / Parcells / Walsh / Noll / Landry / Shula territory now.

A coach that wins a Super Bowl proves he can get his job done with the right cast; a coach that wins more than one proves he's a major reason the team got to a Super Bowl in the first place.

As long as John Mara is running this team, Coughlin doesn't go until Coughlin decides to go.

fizzlesticks
01-08-2013, 02:03 AM
Hell no.
+1

BrianK01
01-08-2013, 02:18 AM
+1

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

dave56dj
01-08-2013, 02:19 AM
Even the notion of considering another coach is laughable. Not unless they dig up lombardi. The thread is an insult in my opinion. Then again my second line may be too.

BrianK01
01-08-2013, 02:33 AM
I think that our next head coach is already picked and waiting for Tom to retire. Bill Cower. I have nothing to back that up of course but that's already in place with a wink, nod and handshake but not until Coughlin rides off when he is ready,,,,

dave56dj
01-08-2013, 02:38 AM
I have no idea how they would possibly have that in place but if this were the off the record case - once tom WANTS to retire - I would be thrilled.

Giant stuck in Texas
01-08-2013, 02:42 AM
I love Tom Coughlin as much as the next guy, but if Jon Gruden were interested in coaching the Giants would you fire Coughlin and hire him? There was a report from Ron Jaworski on Gruden being interested in coaching again but only in the right situation. Giants obviously would be considered a right situation. Would you hire him?

Hell no!!! Imagine all the confusion on the field. "Hey Jason Tuck, wait.. not you, I mean Justin Pierre Paul, wait....errrr."
Forget about it.

PennState1
01-08-2013, 03:26 AM
We bring in Saben!!!

PennState1
01-08-2013, 03:27 AM
Saben us a Tuna descendant right? Didn't he coach under Bellicheck in CLE?

Captain Chaos
01-08-2013, 05:44 AM
I really don't think it would be worth it; Saban on the other hand may be worth a look.

Diamondring
01-08-2013, 06:16 AM
Why?

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 07:20 AM
Yes, I would fire TC to hire a much lesser coach.

RoanokeFan
01-08-2013, 07:43 AM
We just can't help ourselves

CDN_G-FAN
01-08-2013, 07:48 AM
No. I like Gruden alot, but frankly, I think Coughlin is one of the best coaches in the league. He's in Belichick/Parcells/Walsh/Knoll/Landry territory now.

As long as John Mara is running this team, Coughlin doesn't go until Coughlin decides to go.

can't say it any better than that.

Carter.525
01-08-2013, 09:06 AM
no to Chucky.. cant diss TC like that

SweetZombieJesus
01-08-2013, 09:14 AM
Are you insane?!? There are fewer than 10 coaches who have won multiple Super Bowls.

Now, shuffling up the coordinators may be more sane. All I want out of Coughlin is to fix the 2nd half collapses which, sadly, he doesn't seem able to do.

gumby74
01-08-2013, 09:37 AM
No. I like Gruden alot, but frankly, I think Coughlin is one of the best coaches in the league. He's in Belichick/Parcells/Walsh/Knoll/Landry territory now.

As long as John Mara is running this team, Coughlin doesn't go until Coughlin decides to go.

I disagree. He's probably one of the better coaches, but i don't think he's in their company.
Coughlin may have 2 rings, but his teams lacked the consistency that any great coach had. Personally, I think being a great coach goes way beyond the rings. # of rings is an overrated statistic.

GameTime
01-08-2013, 09:39 AM
why do some thing Gruden is a some kind of great coach?? I like him but he always looks stoned. Would not be particularly happy if he became the Giants HC.

Drez
01-08-2013, 10:10 AM
**** NO!!!!!!!!!

Gruden is so overrated it's not even funny.

Drez
01-08-2013, 10:10 AM
I disagree. He's probably one of the better coaches, but i don't think he's in their company.
Coughlin may have 2 rings, but his teams lacked the consistency that any great coach had. Personally, I think being a great coach goes way beyond the rings. # of rings is an overrated statistic.
Get over Marino already. lol.

gumby74
01-08-2013, 10:14 AM
I disagree. He's probably one of the better coaches, but i don't think he's in their company.
Coughlin may have 2 rings, but his teams lacked the consistency that any great coach had. Personally, I think being a great coach goes way beyond the rings. # of rings is an overrated statistic.


Get over Marino already. lol.

Ha. Seriously though. Any time a coach is known for his team's second half collapses, you can't possibly put them in great company. But Marino was unbelievable.

Drez
01-08-2013, 10:17 AM
Ha. Seriously though. Any time a coach is known for his team's second half collapses, you can't possibly put them in great company. But Marino was unbelievable.
When the same coach is also credited with having only 1 losing season over 9 years and 2 SBs, one against arguably the best team that ever played and both against a coach whom many call one of the best of all time and a QB whom many argue is the best of all time, then yes, that coach can be claimed to be in rarefied air.

giants8493
01-08-2013, 10:39 AM
Seriously? TC brought us 2 rings already! I would like a D coordinator with the fire and passion Gruden showslmfao

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 10:51 AM
Ha. Seriously though. Any time a coach is known for his team's second half collapses, you can't possibly put them in great company. But Marino was unbelievable.

Is that what TC is known for?

Red Dog
01-08-2013, 11:46 AM
NO, and Gruden's personality and verbiage (read public swearing when he was a coach) do not fit with the Giants.. After all, we're not the Jets ya know

GameTime
01-08-2013, 12:20 PM
just like the thread some one started about KG...
"why do you think he isnt a HC coach now".....

he isnt that good....

joemorrisforprez
01-08-2013, 12:29 PM
I disagree. He's probably one of the better coaches, but i don't think he's in their company.
Coughlin may have 2 rings, but his teams lacked the consistency that any great coach had. Personally, I think being a great coach goes way beyond the rings. # of rings is an overrated statistic.

You might think it's overrated, and I doubt I'll be able to persuade you differently.

However, overrated or not, a championship win in any team sport is a positive reflection on the coach.

Winning a championship proves a coach has the tools (mental, psychological, managerial) necessary when he is surrounded by the right team......but winning more than one championship tells me that coach is a major reason for the team's success.

In football especially, the best programs (multiple championships) have a great Coach-QB combo..... Lombardi & Starr.... Landry & Staubach .... Noll & Bradshaw.... Johnson & Aikman..... Belichick & Brady ..... Walsh & Montana ..... I'm sure there's few more examples.

People can disagree with me or not, but I think Coughlin & Eli Manning have taken their place in that group.

Beyond his 2 Super Bowl wins (against Belichick, no less), Coughlin did an amazing job taking Jacksonville from an expansion team to a legitimate SB contender.... he had a winning record with Jax, and a winning record with NYG. In fact, the Giants haven't had a losing record since Coughlin's first year, when Eli was a rookie.

Coughlin is all about winning....and when his players buy into it, great things are totally possible....it's happened twice, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happens again before he finally steps down.

When he retires, Coughlin will likely be the most winning Giants coach since Steve Owen......he's already won more Giants games than Bill Parcells (another coach I consider as one of the all time greats).

Like I said, at this point, Coughlin is a "made man" in the NFL, and as long as John Mara is running this team, Coughlin will be his coach.

Remember, it was Mara who told Coughlin to reach out to the team when everyone else was screaming for him to be fired.......and even after Coughlin coached this team to the greatest upset in NFL history, people were calling for him to be fired a couple seasons later.....and Mara collected and saved every angry "fire Coughlin" letter.

I've been wrong about a million things about the Giants, but I can say that I've supported Coughlin during all the "hot seat" episodes, and I'm convinced he belongs in the discussion with Belichick as best current head coaches in the NFL.

gumby74
01-08-2013, 12:35 PM
Is that what TC is known for?

Absolutely. Imo, Coughlin doesn't deserve to be named among the all time greats any more than the Giants deserve to be named a dynasty. We have 2 SB in 4 years, but man we are inconsistent and aren't very convincing.

BParcells777
01-08-2013, 12:37 PM
In a NY minute. Very appreciative of Tom's accomplishments but its only down hill from here with Tom

ozzie0075
01-08-2013, 12:46 PM
NO, and Gruden's personality and verbiage (read public swearing when he was a coach) do not fit with the Giants.. After all, we're not the Jets ya know

Agreed there is nothing about Gruden that makes me believe that he is better than TC.

GameTime
01-08-2013, 12:47 PM
In a NY minute. Very appreciative of Tom's accomplishments but its only down hill from here with Tom
why?? Gruden....really...
give me some solid facts about Gruden.....

Toadofsteel
01-08-2013, 12:49 PM
I don't think it's TC that's responsible for the 2nd half collapses. There are only 4 other faces on the roster and coaching staff that have been here as long as TC: Eli, DD, Osi, and Killdrive. Which of those 4 would you say has a tendency to be, well, predictable?

joemorrisforprez
01-08-2013, 12:57 PM
Absolutely. Imo, Coughlin doesn't deserve to be named among the all time greats any more than the Giants deserve to be named a dynasty. We have 2 SB in 4 years, but man we are inconsistent and aren't very convincing.

Super Bowl in 2007 and 2011......no losing seasons since Coughlin's first rebuilding year.

Coughlin's biggest crime is not consistently winning the Super Bowl.

I think Coughlin deserves some criticism for this season....but that's about it. And really, the only criticism I have of Coughlin is not bonking Gilbirde and Fewell like a 3 stooges episode.

He's among the best in the business.

Take a look at how quickly Andy Reid got a new job......just imagine how fast a guy with 2 trophies would be hired if he ever was shown the door.

John Mara has seen some very good coaches leave NY for success: Lombardi, Landry, Parcells, Belichick, Coughlin, Fox........ he'll never let Coughlin leave again.

RoanokeFan
01-08-2013, 01:00 PM
Absolutely. Imo, Coughlin doesn't deserve to be named among the all time greats any more than the Giants deserve to be named a dynasty. We have 2 SB in 4 years, but man we are inconsistent and aren't very convincing.

Who ever said the Giants were a dynasty?

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 01:09 PM
Absolutely. Imo, Coughlin doesn't deserve to be named among the all time greats any more than the Giants deserve to be named a dynasty. We have 2 SB in 4 years, but man we are inconsistent and aren't very convincing.

Was Parcells' win against the Bills convincing?

gumby74
01-08-2013, 01:10 PM
Who ever said the Giants were a dynasty? No one, but the case could technically be made that we are one. I do remember seeing some threads about it though.

RoanokeFan
01-08-2013, 01:11 PM
Was Parcells' win against the Bills convincing?

It convinced me we were the luckiest team in the NFL when Norwide missed that field goal.

RoanokeFan
01-08-2013, 01:12 PM
No one, but the case could technically be made that we are one. I do remember seeing some threads about it though.

If we were to win 3 more in 5/6 years, THEN maybe

gumby74
01-08-2013, 01:17 PM
Was Parcells' win against the Bills convincing?

Not at all. But we were convincing during the regular season. None of this, mediocre for the regular season, then getting hot nonsense.

Drez
01-08-2013, 01:17 PM
I don't think it's TC that's responsible for the 2nd half collapses. There are only 4 other faces on the roster and coaching staff that have been here as long as TC: Eli, DD, Osi, and Killdrive. Which of those 4 would you say has a tendency to be, well, predictable?I say you.

Drez
01-08-2013, 01:19 PM
No one, but the case could technically be made that we are one. I do remember seeing some threads about it though.
I think those threads were based around the premise if we won the SB again this year.

Drez
01-08-2013, 01:20 PM
Not at all. But we were convincing during the regular season. None of this, mediocre for the regular season, then getting hot nonsense.It was also pre-free agency. easier to keep your core players.

BParcells777
01-08-2013, 01:37 PM
why?? Gruden....really...
give me some solid facts about Gruden.....

I just like Gruden. He would be very entertaining, and is a good motivator. Call me crazy.......both guys have won a SB so that's a tie.

Both have done well at their two stops. Tom has just been here too long and the players have tuned him out. Its time for a change, or I just have a feeling we are headed off the cliff.

Drez
01-08-2013, 01:48 PM
I just like Gruden. He would be very entertaining, and is a good motivator. Call me crazy.......both guys have won a SB so that's a tie.

Both have done well at their two stops. Tom has just been here too long and the players have tuned him out. Its time for a change, or I just have a feeling we are headed off the cliff.
No, it's not a tie. Coughlin has won 2. Gruden's Bucs also fell off of a cliff shortly after their SB win. While we may have suffered some frustrating seasons during TC's tenure here, we have always been in playoff contention, barring his first season.

BParcells777
01-08-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't remember Gruden's Buc's ever being anything but a tough out....a real tough out. They were physical, and they were suffering from poor drafting, a Buffalo like market.
Gruden did the best with what he had. They never failed to show up as Coughlin's teams often do, We have a great drafting team here under Jerry Reese.

In NY Gruden would be free to just coach very talented players. I'm sick of Tom's tantrums, and lackadaisical 2nd half teams/performances.

Drez
01-08-2013, 02:08 PM
Gruden's records at TB:





TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_NFL_season)12
4
0
.750
1st in NFC South
3
0
1.000
Super Bowl XXXVII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXXVII) Champions


TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_NFL_season)7
9
0
.438
3rd in NFC South
-
-
-
-


TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NFL_season)5
11
0
.312
4th in NFC South
-
-
-
-


TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_NFL_season)11
5
0
.688
1st in NFC South
0
1
.000
Lost to Washington Redskins (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins) in NFC Wild-Card Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_2005%E2%80%9306).


TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_NFL_season)4
12
0
.250
4th in NFC South
-
-
-
-


TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NFL_season)9
7
0
.563
1st in NFC South
0
1
.000
Lost to New York Giants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Giants) in NFC Wild-Card Game (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_playoffs,_2007%E2%80%9308).


TB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Tampa_Bay_Buccaneers_season)2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_NFL_season)9
7
0
.563
3rd in NFC South
-
-



TB Total57550.50932.600

pino
01-08-2013, 02:23 PM
Without a doubt, NO.

M00KIE
01-08-2013, 02:39 PM
Absolutely not.

BlueSanta
01-08-2013, 02:50 PM
Ill never understand the love for Gruden as a coach. He is so much better on TV then he was as a coach.

gumby74
01-08-2013, 03:25 PM
Not at all. But we were convincing during the regular season. None of this, mediocre for the regular season, then getting hot nonsense.


It was also pre-free agency. easier to keep your core players.

True, but there are plenty of teams these days that play convincing football year in and year out. Obviously, they will still have "down" seasons, but still. Teams like - Steelers, Colts, Pats, Ravens, and recently Green Bay.

joemorrisforprez
01-08-2013, 03:30 PM
Ill never understand the love for Gruden as a coach. He is so much better on TV then he was as a coach.

I think Gruden would be an upgrade for alot of teams.......just not the Giants.

jomo
01-08-2013, 03:38 PM
It is very tempting to do anything that would get Gruden's annoying ways off the TV but in the end I would say absolutely not!

TCHOF
01-08-2013, 03:39 PM
True, but there are plenty of teams these days that play convincing football year in and year out. Obviously, they will still have "down" seasons, but still. Teams like - Steelers, Colts, Pats, Ravens, and recently Green Bay.

I don't really understand this. What does the regular seaon matter if we win the SB that year? Would you rather be like the Pats in 2007 and 2011 and kill the regular season and lose the SB? Or maybe like the Collts in 2009? Or maybe go 15-1 like GB and lose your first playoff game? Or maybe like the Ravens, who can't even get to the SB?

joemorrisforprez
01-08-2013, 03:40 PM
It is very tempting to do anything that would get Gruden's annoying ways off the TV but in the end I would say absolutely not!

I think Gruden would be a good guy to take over a team that was a complete mess, because he works his *** off, and has alot of enthusiasm.

But at this point, Coughlin and his team have things down pretty well......the players know what to expect from Coughlin, and they respect him. He's won them over.

BlueBlooded1979
01-08-2013, 03:41 PM
I don't remember Gruden's Buc's ever being anything but a tough out....a real tough out. They were physical, and they were suffering from poor drafting, a Buffalo like market.
Gruden did the best with what he had. They never failed to show up as Coughlin's teams often do, We have a great drafting team here under Jerry Reese.

In NY Gruden would be free to just coach very talented players. I'm sick of Tom's tantrums, and lackadaisical 2nd half teams/performances.

Grunden won with a team that Dungy built with Monte Kiffen, an all time great, running the defense. They were a top 5 defense littered with pro bowlers. As that team aged Gruden never won a playoff game again. Tom Coughlin, EA and JR built this team from the number 4 overall pick in 2004 to the SB champs in 2007, then reloaded the team in 2011 and won in a completely different way. The only losing season suffered here was 2004.

For all of Grudens "offensive genius" he couldn't get the QB position right in TB and they were never a great offensive team.

HIs penchant for older veterans is annoying. The NFL is about guys that you draft and develop. They were horrible at that.

He threw temper tantrums routinely, more so than Coughlin does now.

His last two seasons they collapsed in the second half of the season.

If you had a team with a top flight defense and an established QB where the coach retired he might be a decent fit since he will stay out of the DCs way and knows how to handle veterans. Brian Billick is a better fit for that role though.

joemorrisforprez
01-08-2013, 03:45 PM
Grunden won with a team that Dungy built with Monte Kiffen, an all time great, running the defense. They were a top 5 defense littered with pro bowlers. As that team aged Gruden never won a playoff game again. Tom Coughlin, EA and JR built this team from the number 4 overall pick in 2004 to the SB champs in 2007, then reloaded the team in 2011 and won in a completely different way. The only losing season suffered here was 2004.

For all of Grudens "offensive genius" he couldn't get the QB position right in TB and they were never a great offensive team.

HIs penchant for older veterans is annoying. The NFL is about guys that you draft and develop. They were horrible at that.

He threw temper tantrums routinely, more so than Coughlin does now.

His last two seasons they collapsed in the second half of the season.

If you had a team with a top flight defense and an established QB where the coach retired he might be a decent fit since he will stay out of the DCs way and knows how to handle veterans. Brian Billick is a better fit for that role though.

I like Gruden, but agree with your points.....Dungy built most of that team.

The Giants are a team that have won it twice with TC....they barely missed the playoffs this season, and it's tough as hell to repeat. So, it's a matter of reloading, not rebuilding....and they certainly don't need to change coaches.

Eli Manning has few more good seasons in him.....probably 4-5 more prime years. I wouldn't be suprised if Coughlin retires when Eli steps aside, and then hand over the team to a new regime.