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View Full Version : Lets talk X's and O's? A page from Gilbrides playbook.



Marvelousmik
01-09-2013, 08:02 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0119/grant_e_switch_play_b1_576.jpg

take a close look at the play above, and visualize 3rd & 4 with cruz lined up in the slot, nicks wide left, randel wide right and Bennett lined up as the tight end while david wilson is in the back field.

If you look at this play you will notice that both nicks and cruz each have 2 options on how to run their routes depending on what the defense is giving them. Obviously if cruz notices the defender or defense is playing the deep ball, he is going to break off of his wheel route and hook back inside.

Nicks runs a similar route inside, but can turn it into a dig, or just fly straight depending on what he sees in the defense. The other routes are pretty straight forward and basic.

I have 2 questions.

1. For arguments sake, lets assume that both nicks and cruz breaks off of the deep pattern because the defense is talking away the deep ball. If Eli then decides to throw it to the tight end who is running a deep post, and the play fails, would you blame gilbride for going deep on a 3rd and short?

2. How many offenses in the NFL dont allow their receivers to change their patterns depending on what the defense is giving them?

Mod_C
01-09-2013, 08:04 PM
How would we know this is indeed "a page from Gilbride's Playbook"?

Marvelousmik
01-09-2013, 08:06 PM
How would we know this is indeed "a page from Gilbride's Playbook"?


http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7481235/chris-brown-victor-cruz-new-york-giants


sorry i didnt originally post the link. Just scroll down to the play and it states so.

Mod_C
01-09-2013, 08:07 PM
Thanks

Drez
01-09-2013, 08:12 PM
Like I've always said, Gilbride doesn't tell Eli where to throw the ball. I'm sure 95% of the time there are short and intermediate routes that Eli opts not to throw (for whatever reason that may be, receivers are covered, already looked off them by the time they did uncover, etc...)

However, they are like to complain that a 10 yard route is too deep anyways.

Diamondring
01-09-2013, 08:13 PM
Well, it depends on why the play failed. Was it because of the defense or the receiver dropping the ball? Maybe it was Eli's pass not accurate enough Once we have the information, then we can say.

Marvelousmik
01-09-2013, 09:44 PM
Like I've always said, Gilbride doesn't tell Eli where to throw the ball. I'm sure 95% of the time there are short and intermediate routes that Eli opts not to throw (for whatever reason that may be, receivers are covered, already looked off them by the time they did uncover, etc...)

However, they are like to complain that a 10 yard route is too deep anyways.

In a sense 3 out of those 5 routes are short.Nick first has to run a slant and id be willing to bet eli can get the ball to him there if he notices the defender is playing a little off.

ELIte4MVP
01-09-2013, 09:55 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0119/grant_e_switch_play_b1_576.jpg

take a close look at the play above, and visualize 3rd & 4 with cruz lined up in the slot, nicks wide left, randelo wide right and Bennett lined up as the tight end while david wilson is in the back field.

If you look at this play you will notice that both nicks and cruz each have 2 options on how to run their routes depending on what the defense is giving them. Obviously if cruz notices the defender or defense is playing the deep ball, he is going to break off of his wheel route and hook back inside.

Nicks runs a similar route inside, but can turn it into a flag, or just fly straight depending on what he sees in the defense. The other routes are pretty straight forward and basic.

I have 2 questions.

1. For arguments sake, lets assume that both nicks and cruz breaks off of the deep pattern because the defense is talking away the deep ball. If Eli then decides to throw it to the tight end who is running a deep post, and the play fails, would you blame gilbride for going deep on a 3rd and short?

2. How many offenses in the NFL dont allow their receivers to change their patterns depending on what the defense is giving them?

This doesn't look like a play from madden. I'm confused

B&RWarrior
01-09-2013, 10:39 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0119/grant_e_switch_play_b1_576.jpg

take a close look at the play above, and visualize 3rd & 4 with cruz lined up in the slot, nicks wide left, randel wide right and Bennett lined up as the tight end while david wilson is in the back field.

If you look at this play you will notice that both nicks and cruz each have 2 options on how to run their routes depending on what the defense is giving them. Obviously if cruz notices the defender or defense is playing the deep ball, he is going to break off of his wheel route and hook back inside.

Nicks runs a similar route inside, but can turn it into a dig, or just fly straight depending on what he sees in the defense. The other routes are pretty straight forward and basic.

I have 2 questions.

1. For arguments sake, lets assume that both nicks and cruz breaks off of the deep pattern because the defense is talking away the deep ball. If Eli then decides to throw it to the tight end who is running a deep post, and the play fails, would you blame gilbride for going deep on a 3rd and short?

2. How many offenses in the NFL dont allow their receivers to change their patterns depending on what the defense is giving them?

I like going deep on 3rd and short especailly to the TE that can use their size advantage again any DB if there is good coverage. We have an option route offense. The play was designed so there is always at least one route going deep to stretch the defense regardless of what coverage they call. This system that we like to crap on is derived from the Houston Oilers old run and shoot. It works when your receivers can consistently get open one on one. That was not the case this year due to injury of Nicks. I also think the league made an adjustment to our offense. I think Gilbride will make an adjustment in the offseason and throw in some new wrinkles. It's his running plays that I question the most.

TheShouldersOf
01-10-2013, 12:30 AM
Indeed, his Running plays annoy me more so then his passing plays,



it also depends on his progressions, it also depends on if Eli sees the same coverage and is on the same page as the receivers, also the lack of Check downs, many times Eli has forced a ball to someone

appodictic
01-10-2013, 05:47 PM
If eli would take off and run more these plays would work better. They would also work better if the RB had something more creative to do that go out into the flat. Thats are problem I think Defences do not really have to account for Eli or the back on most plays and then its 11 on 9

gmen0820
01-10-2013, 05:49 PM
If eli would take off and run more these plays would work better. They would also work better if the RB had something more creative to do that go out into the flat. Thats are problem I think Defences do not really have to account for Eli or the back on most plays and then its 11 on 9OMFG

gmen0820
01-10-2013, 05:50 PM
Yeah, they don't account for Eli. What a statue. Guys like him, and Peyton, and Tom Terrific, they all hinder their offense for not demanding to be accounted for...

NYGisBallin
01-10-2013, 05:52 PM
If eli would take off and run more these plays would work better. They would also work better if the RB had something more creative to do that go out into the flat. Thats are problem I think Defences do not really have to account for Eli or the back on most plays and then its 11 on 9

oy vey.

Must do alot of this madden?

CDN_G-FAN
01-10-2013, 06:23 PM
I like going deep on 3rd and short especailly to the TE that can use their size advantage again any DB if there is good coverage. We have an option route offense. The play was designed so there is always at least one route going deep to stretch the defense regardless of what coverage they call. This system that we like to crap on is derived from the Houston Oilers old run and shoot. It works when your receivers can consistently get open one on one. That was not the case this year due to injury of Nicks. I also think the league made an adjustment to our offense. I think Gilbride will make an adjustment in the offseason and throw in some new wrinkles. It's his running plays that I question the most.

Great post.

CDN_G-FAN
01-10-2013, 06:28 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0119/grant_e_switch_play_b1_576.jpg

take a close look at the play above, and visualize 3rd & 4 with cruz lined up in the slot, nicks wide left, randel wide right and Bennett lined up as the tight end while david wilson is in the back field.

If you look at this play you will notice that both nicks and cruz each have 2 options on how to run their routes depending on what the defense is giving them. Obviously if cruz notices the defender or defense is playing the deep ball, he is going to break off of his wheel route and hook back inside.

Nicks runs a similar route inside, but can turn it into a dig, or just fly straight depending on what he sees in the defense. The other routes are pretty straight forward and basic.

I have 2 questions.

1. For arguments sake, lets assume that both nicks and cruz breaks off of the deep pattern because the defense is talking away the deep ball. If Eli then decides to throw it to the tight end who is running a deep post, and the play fails, would you blame gilbride for going deep on a 3rd and short?

2. How many offenses in the NFL dont allow their receivers to change their patterns depending on what the defense is giving them?

i think if both recievers break off their pattern then someone has read this defense wrong unless both safeties are rolling their coverage to that side, which would mean that the TE would be clear for a monster reception if he can beat his man.

i don't think that play works if both break off their coverage so part of that read has to be one player goes deep depending on how the safety is playing it (cheating outside, cheating inside)

M00KIE
01-11-2013, 06:45 AM
None of this matters if Deihl is playing. ;)

Redeyejedi
01-11-2013, 09:04 AM
oy vey.

Must do alot of this madden?
If Eli could run it would certainly help but he cant so ......yeah

BJacobs aka The Problem
01-11-2013, 12:37 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0119/grant_e_switch_play_b1_576.jpg

take a close look at the play above, and visualize 3rd & 4 with cruz lined up in the slot, nicks wide left, randel wide right and Bennett lined up as the tight end while david wilson is in the back field.

If you look at this play you will notice that both nicks and cruz each have 2 options on how to run their routes depending on what the defense is giving them. Obviously if cruz notices the defender or defense is playing the deep ball, he is going to break off of his wheel route and hook back inside.

Nicks runs a similar route inside, but can turn it into a dig, or just fly straight depending on what he sees in the defense. The other routes are pretty straight forward and basic.

I have 2 questions.

1. For arguments sake, lets assume that both nicks and cruz breaks off of the deep pattern because the defense is talking away the deep ball. If Eli then decides to throw it to the tight end who is running a deep post, and the play fails, would you blame gilbride for going deep on a 3rd and short?

2. How many offenses in the NFL dont allow their receivers to change their patterns depending on what the defense is giving them?

Problem is, that defensive coordinators were able to pick up on these kinds of schemes/plays early. Couple that with an oft injured Nicks this season, the defenses were able to handle plays like this with ease.

I don't remember what game it was, but I remember a play like this from our offense, where the defense brought pressure from the right side, dropped a man into coverage on the left effectively doubling cruz in the slot with the nickle. A safety sat over top, which left Hixon(I think it was him and not Randle) 1 on 1 and Bennett, 1 on 1. With the blitz coming in fast, it didn't look like there was no adjustment for Bennet or Hixon to make any kind of hot read and the play ended up getting stuffed because Eli had no where to go. (Matter of fact, this might have been one of Eli's INT's because I don't think he saw the man drop back as he tried to fire it off quick to Cruz in the slot).

I don't really have a problem with Gilbride per se, some days, the guy has been a genius and some, he's looked worse than Huffnagle(sp?). My issue has been that more often than not, it looks like the coordinators struggle with in game adjustments when their scheme has been figured out to a certain point.

GameTime
01-11-2013, 12:44 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0119/grant_e_switch_play_b1_576.jpg

take a close look at the play above, and visualize 3rd & 4 with cruz lined up in the slot, nicks wide left, randel wide right and Bennett lined up as the tight end while david wilson is in the back field.

If you look at this play you will notice that both nicks and cruz each have 2 options on how to run their routes depending on what the defense is giving them. Obviously if cruz notices the defender or defense is playing the deep ball, he is going to break off of his wheel route and hook back inside.

Nicks runs a similar route inside, but can turn it into a dig, or just fly straight depending on what he sees in the defense. The other routes are pretty straight forward and basic.

I have 2 questions.

1. For arguments sake, lets assume that both nicks and cruz breaks off of the deep pattern because the defense is talking away the deep ball. If Eli then decides to throw it to the tight end who is running a deep post, and the play fails, would you blame gilbride for going deep on a 3rd and short?

2. How many offenses in the NFL dont allow their receivers to change their patterns depending on what the defense is giving them?
more times then not Eli looks for the one on one matchups and goes there.....
why do we have to assess blame for a play and how it is run?? If there are options then thats the way it is designed. Finger pointing gets nothing accomplished.

BJacobs aka The Problem
01-11-2013, 12:53 PM
more times then not Eli looks for the one on one matchups and goes there.....
why do we have to assess blame for a play and how it is run?? If there are options then thats the way it is designed. Finger pointing gets nothing accomplished.

Because assessing blame, unfortunately, is the only way to figure out what's causing the issue and only by identifying the cause can you find a solution.

Then again, we're not the coaches, players and staff so what we say or come up with is moot, but it makes the work day go by faster and I'd rather talk Giants football than talk to another damn microsoft tech rep who can't seem to figure out why their friggen windows 8 key isn't activating.

gmen0820
01-11-2013, 01:49 PM
If Eli could run it would certainly help but he cant so ......yeahMobility wouldn't hurt him, but we also need to realize that his lack of mobility has prompted him to become such a skilled pocket passer.

Just like how blind people develop an acute sense of hearing, or smell, etc.

hadenough
01-11-2013, 02:56 PM
That play looks like it could be a disaster most times. If the 2 WR on the left cut off their routes and WR on right runs his route....you have your best 3 playmakers all jammed in the middle.

To answer your question

1. I actually don't mind him going deep on 3rd and short. At least it keeps the defense more honest and once in a while...it pays off.
2. I think a lot of teams have similar routes. I'm not sure how indepth the Giants go into reading what route to run...but I pretty sure some form of it is common throughout the league.

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 03:21 PM
None of this matters if Deihl is playing. ;)

In all seriousness, if the o-line is giving up pressure the opposing defense doesnt even have to worry about the deep ball and can play a little closer to the LOS.

What I THINK i saw happen on many 3rd and 4's or that range this year was the opposing D taking away not necessarily the DEEP ball, but the 8-10 yard plays where the WR's wound up breaking underneath on a MUCH MUCH shorter route. 3rd and 5-8 yard needs were being completed at 3-4 yard pass plays with no YAC and once again the O would have to march off the field.

This year was such a 180 flip from last year when the O was lethal on 3rd down plays. It was ridiculous how good we were on 3rd down last year.