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View Full Version : Ojomo a suitable replacement for Osi??



Snappinnecks
01-10-2013, 12:34 AM
Ojomo sacks vs Jets in Preseason (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjGorgmOIQ&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Bears (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uoDXx0fIFg&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Patriots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9JSjzQQVos&hd=1)

Ojomo strip sack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLlgk-1bk8A&hd=1)

Carter.525
01-10-2013, 12:39 AM
dang.. He's a beast coming off the edge on the strip sack, I know it was only preseason.. but Ojomo needs to be in the rotation this year

Snappinnecks
01-10-2013, 12:49 AM
Look at the way he uses his hands to keep the OL lineman's off him. It's the single greatest skill any DL can have. Michael Strahan was a freaking MASTER at it. That's the reason he lost 15 lbs and still dominated. It's the main reason, in my opinion, that JPP's play fell off this year. He completely or forgot the art of using your hands.

When I played in college it was the ONLY reason I could get by a OL that had 2-3 inches on me. Their damn arm length is such advantage...nothing like pushing up on the wrist or smacking away at the forearms to take that advantage away. I can't stress how great of skill it is.

Rusty192
01-10-2013, 01:09 AM
Sign that #61 guy to runningback. Dude looks like a stud!

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 01:52 AM
Sign that #61 guy to runningback. Dude looks like a stud!

y we sat him the entire season i will never know

Toadofsteel
01-10-2013, 01:58 AM
Also, the fact that he was able to bring down Tebow means there's some proof of concept of him against mobile QBs...

RagTime Blue
01-10-2013, 02:41 AM
I think Ojomo can play at a high level, and perhaps with the type of energy that the D Line seems to have been lacking this year.

Rat_bastich
01-10-2013, 02:57 AM
Will never know if he doesn't get his shot. He could end up being the Cruz of defense.

Blue in Oz
01-10-2013, 04:56 AM
Um, Adrian Tracy?

Captain Chaos
01-10-2013, 06:24 AM
I think Ojomo needed a ton of seasoning, that said it will be fun to watch him play next season. Realistically, we need to get a stud 4-3 DE, in the Draft if we can... I think Ojomo can play the part in a rotation.

TooStupid
01-10-2013, 06:31 AM
Ojomo sacks vs Jets in Preseason (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjGorgmOIQ&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Bears (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uoDXx0fIFg&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Patriots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9JSjzQQVos&hd=1)

Ojomo strip sack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLlgk-1bk8A&hd=1)


If all he does is contain the edge, it would be a huge improvement. Osi simply can not play the run contrary to his protestations.

Blue in Oz
01-10-2013, 06:56 AM
Wow, I watched it, he's better than I remember :)

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 07:11 AM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.

myles2424
01-10-2013, 08:09 AM
Speaking of pre season guys, whatever happend to Dwayne Hendricks? I remember he had a decent preseason along with praise from TC,but never heard another word...

myles2424
01-10-2013, 08:13 AM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.
Everyone said the exact same about cruz....ojomo got a little 1st quarter action & still was the most impressive on D

dnotch121
01-10-2013, 08:44 AM
he has the weird name... i say yes lol. its depressing not having bigblue on TV

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:59 AM
Ojomo sacks vs Jets in Preseason (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjGorgmOIQ&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Bears (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uoDXx0fIFg&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Patriots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9JSjzQQVos&hd=1)

Ojomo strip sack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLlgk-1bk8A&hd=1)


This is why he's on the roster. Some will say it was only preseason, which is obvious. Those would be some of the same people who said Cruz's preseason was not definitive either. There is no way to know if he is ready to start, but he is clearly a talented player who needs playing time. In my opinion, he may well be a better all around player than Osi.

I'm glad we kept him and I do see him and Tracy as the future Dline bookends

Kruunch
01-10-2013, 09:01 AM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.

While I agree with the logic, the same could have been said of Cruz being a solid replacement for Steve Smith.

I think we'll see a little more of Ojomo next year if he's been at all solid in practice.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:02 AM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.

What has his being an undrafted free agent got to do with his skill sets? That's what a lot of folks here said about Victor Cruz. And after his 1,500 yard season they continued to say he was a one season wonder. And then he put up another 1,000 yard season.

The only way to know is to play him and I am hoping Reese and TC see the value of having him and Tracy on the team this season. If he fails, then so be it.

flashnando
01-10-2013, 10:02 AM
Sign that #61 guy to runningback. Dude looks like a stud!

I Can't stop laughing at that part of the video! lol

He is running like he will never touch the football in the NFL again lol

hadenough
01-10-2013, 10:55 AM
Look at the way he uses his hands to keep the OL lineman's off him. It's the single greatest skill any DL can have. Michael Strahan was a freaking MASTER at it. That's the reason he lost 15 lbs and still dominated. It's the main reason, in my opinion, that JPP's play fell off this year. He completely or forgot the art of using your hands.

When I played in college it was the ONLY reason I could get by a OL that had 2-3 inches on me. Their damn arm length is such advantage...nothing like pushing up on the wrist or smacking away at the forearms to take that advantage away. I can't stress how great of skill it is.

You're right...he certainly does that well and he has good lean on his pursuit. He looks a step slow getting off the line but you never know how that will impact a player. That guy Chandler...I think that's his name (guy from Sryacuse that the Pats took this year)...has a similar slow step but he did well. I would like to see him against better competition.

Either the Giants didn't suit him this year because they didn't want other teams seeing him and trying to sign him or maybe he just isn't good enough yet. We will see.

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 11:15 AM
What has his being an undrafted free agent got to do with his skill sets? That's what a lot of folks here said about Victor Cruz. And after his 1,500 yard season they continued to say he was a one season wonder. And then he put up another 1,000 yard season.

The only way to know is to play him and I am hoping Reese and TC see the value of having him and Tracy on the team this season. If he fails, then so be it.

Guys like Cruz are by far the exception to the rule. There are handfuls of guys like Cruz as compared to hundreds of other guys who never become significant contributors. You can't plan your team around the idea that every undrafted FA who flashes in preseason will be a superstar. .

With our pass rush as poor as it was this year, why do you think that the coaches never really gave Ojomo a chance even in just the Tollefson role? (I believe he was even inactive during one of the final games that Tuck was out). If they thought that he was a player who could make a significant contribution during real NFL games, I would think that they would have played him.

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 11:22 AM
This is why he's on the roster. Some will say it was only preseason, which is obvious. Those would be some of the same people who said Cruz's preseason was not definitive either. There is no way to know if he is ready to start, but he is clearly a talented player who needs playing time. In my opinion, he may well be a better all around player than Osi.

I'm glad we kept him and I do see him and Tracy as the future Dline bookends

I don't like Tracey as an every down DE at all. He can rush off the edge on 3rd and long but gets absolutely blown apart on running plays. He is an extremely limited player.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 11:33 AM
Guys like Cruz are by far the exception to the rule. There are handfuls of guys like Cruz as compared to hundreds of other guys who never become significant contributors. You can't plan your team around the idea that every undrafted FA who flashes in preseason will be a superstar. . With our pass rush as poor as it was this year, why do you think that the coaches never really gave Ojomo a chance even in just the Tollefson role? (I believe he was even inactive during one of the final games that Tuck was out). If they thought that he was a player who could make a significant contribution during real NFL games, I would think that they would have played him. Tracy was that guy and Ojomo had a hamstring issue for part of the season. A guy like Ojomo can benefit from his time with the playbook and practice. Yoy can only dress so many DEs for a game.

Hynoski was Undrafted FA

TuckandRolle
01-10-2013, 11:33 AM
I think he has massive potential. A year under the Giants coaching, we will include him in our rotation...and he could turn out to be more than we hoped for.

BigBlue1971
01-10-2013, 11:33 AM
although Ojomo didnt play in the regular season im still excited about this guy

preseason or not he was balling and hes just gonna get better.

hes close to being as athletic as JPP but heavier!

im confident hes gonna beast!

Carter.525
01-10-2013, 11:42 AM
FREE Ojomo..!!

Toadofsteel
01-10-2013, 11:48 AM
The Giants wouldn't have kept him on the 53-man roster if they didn't have long-term plans for him... it's obvious that had he been waived someone would have picked him up. We normally don't roll with 5 DE on the roster.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 11:54 AM
I'm just not sure he could be an impact player. Yes he worked over some tackles in preseason who likely are on practice squads now. And he does a good job with his hands and playing with leverage. But he is so limited physically.

Maybe an nfl weight and conditioning program can help.

But I need to see much much more of him before thinking he has any sort of chance of replacing an all-pro de

ryan12
01-10-2013, 12:06 PM
Ojomo sacks vs Jets in Preseason (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFjGorgmOIQ&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Bears (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uoDXx0fIFg&hd=1)

Ojomo vs Patriots (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9JSjzQQVos&hd=1)

Ojomo strip sack (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLlgk-1bk8A&hd=1)

im so tired of hearing about ojomo if he was any good he would have played this year he was on inactive list every game

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 12:19 PM
The Giants wouldn't have kept him on the 53-man roster if they didn't have long-term plans for him... it's obvious that had he been waived someone would have picked him up. We normally don't roll with 5 DE on the roster. +1

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 12:31 PM
I'm just not sure he could be an impact player. Yes he worked over some tackles in preseason who likely are on practice squads now. And he does a good job with his hands and playing with leverage. But he is so limited physically.

Maybe an nfl weight and conditioning program can help.

But I need to see much much more of him before thinking he has any sort of chance of replacing an all-pro de

+1

The issue raised by this thead is not whether he can eventually become a contributing player, but rather whether he can replace an All-Pro DE. Like everyone here, I would love for the answer to that question to be yes, but based upon what little we have seen from him so far, I am not going to assume that to be the case just because he made the roster.

TroyArcher
01-10-2013, 12:39 PM
No way to tell until he actually plays. I doubt he will be anywhere near as good as Osi in his prime but Osi of last year should not be too hard to match.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 01:08 PM
This is why he's on the roster. Some will say it was only preseason, which is obvious. Those would be some of the same people who said Cruz's preseason was not definitive either. There is no way to know if he is ready to start, but he is clearly a talented player who needs playing time. In my opinion, he may well be a better all around player than Osi.

I'm glad we kept him and I do see him and Tracy as the future Dline bookendsGiants also didnt solely count on Cruz either they drafted another slot receiver. Going into next season expecting Ojomo to be an All Pro Edge Rusher with no other plan would be foolish

GeoGoGo
01-10-2013, 01:21 PM
He has show enough to warrent a good look in camp. In my opinion at least.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 01:24 PM
+1

The issue raised by this thead is not whether he can eventually become a contributing player, but rather whether he can replace an All-Pro DE. Like everyone here, I would love for the answer to that question to be yes, but based upon what little we have seen from him so far, I am not going to assume that to be the case just because he made the roster.

Which DE played like an All-Pro in 2012?

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 01:24 PM
Which DE played like an All-Pro in 2012?

JPP did.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 01:28 PM
Giants also didnt solely count on Cruz either they drafted another slot receiver. Going into next season expecting Ojomo to be an All Pro Edge Rusher with no other plan would be foolish

They can draft another DE or bring in a FA, no problem. But they are developing two DEs for a reason and I hope at least one of them pans out. But to say we are replacing a Pro Bowl DE now is just not the case. Which DE in 2012 played like an All-Pro?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 01:29 PM
JPP did.

And he's under contract

hadenough
01-10-2013, 01:32 PM
JPP did.


That's it. In reality....replacing Osi won't be that big of a deal. Yes...we will miss his 5 or so 'big plays'....strips and a couple of sacks here and there. But, he also gave up a lot of plays. In all...his big plays were good...his bad plays...not so much. I'm curious to see the Giants without him...I'm hoping they will get a lot more 3rd and longs with teams not being able to run to his side as much anymore.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 01:32 PM
I think it's far more likely Ojomo and Tracy end up being the #4 and #5 DEs. Similar to what they were this season.

Coaches see these guys in practice everyday. If they were lighting the world on fire they would have played more.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 01:35 PM
I think it's far more likely Ojomo and Tracy end up being the #4 and #5 DEs. Similar to what they were this season.

Coaches see these guys in practice everyday. If they were lighting the world on fire they would have played more.

Clearly, they didn't consider Tuck and Osi liabilities.

rEaS
01-10-2013, 01:53 PM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

i'm sorry but wasnt the exact same thing said about victor cruz at some moment.. ohh all his big plays just came in the preseason.. and look how that turned out.. im not saying it's going to be the same, but it's far from a pipe dream

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 02:00 PM
i'm sorry but wasnt the exact same thing said about victor cruz at some moment.. ohh all his big plays just came in the preseason.. and look how that turned out.. im not saying it's going to be the same, but it's far from a pipe dream

Cruz had a lot of redeeming qualities. Lateral explosion. Body control. Ball skills. Physical gifts. He just had no clue of how to run routes or read defenses.

Ojomo has the opposite problem. Lack of physical tools but he does the things well that players are coached to do. Play with leverage and active hands. The issue is how does he develop from here? You can't teach a guy better balance or burst or flexibility.

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 02:06 PM
i'm sorry but wasnt the exact same thing said about victor cruz at some moment.. ohh all his big plays just came in the preseason.. and look how that turned out.. im not saying it's going to be the same, but it's far from a pipe dream

How many undrafted FA's turn our like Cruz? You want to build your team on the assumption that your team found 2 Victor Cruz's in the span of a couple of years?

rEaS
01-10-2013, 02:07 PM
no but he can get better physically.. get leaners, faster, stronger.. im not saying he'll be all pro but maybe he can be good.. and with what we had at DE last year.. "good" is an upgrade.. dont you think?

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 02:07 PM
Clearly, they didn't consider Tuck and Osi liabilities.

But the coaches obviously though that even as bad as Tuck and Osi played this year, they were better that Ojomo and Tracy.

rEaS
01-10-2013, 02:09 PM
How many undrafted FA's turn our like Cruz? You want to build your team on the assumption that your team found 2 Victor Cruz's in the span of a couple of years?

hey i'm not affirming it's going to pan out.. im just saying its not a pipe dream for it to happen.. thats all

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 02:13 PM
Giants also didnt solely count on Cruz either they drafted another slot receiver. Going into next season expecting Ojomo to be an All Pro Edge Rusher with no other plan would be foolish

Exactly my point.

I hope that Ojomo and Tracy turn out to be great . . . . but I certainly don't want my team to bank on that.

I would prefer that my team realize that the odds are that these guys will not be starting players, and to fill the roster accordingly. If Ojomo and Tracy end up bucking the odds and becomong starters, then we are in a great situation because you can never have too many pass rushers.

But to go into a season thinking that DE is not a priority because we have Ojomo and Tracy is extremely dangerous in my opinion.

Eli TO Shockey
01-10-2013, 02:14 PM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.

considering the depth we thought we had going into the season, Ojomo had no business making the 53. He forced his will on oppposing defenses and made the team. Granted, it was against 2nd and 3rd string guys...but this kid is a beast and will only improve with more experience.

Toadofsteel
01-10-2013, 02:17 PM
Exactly my point.

I hope that Ojomo and Tracy turn out to be great . . . . but I certainly don't want my team to bank on that.

I would prefer that my team realize that the odds are that these guys will not be starting players, and to fill the roster accordingly. If Ojomo and Tracy end up bucking the odds and becomong starters, then we are in a great situation because you can never have too many pass rushers.

But to go into a season thinking that DE is not a priority because we have Ojomo and Tracy is extremely dangerous in my opinion.

Not going to lie, DE is an area of need. But there are 3 bigger areas of need: CB, LB, and most important need OL...

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 02:22 PM
Not going to lie, DE is an area of need. But there are 3 bigger areas of need: CB, LB, and most important need OL...

I'm a believer in the "next man up" philosophy so I would not expect us to go after a DE when the lines need to be addressed first. I am guessing Tuck will be here.

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 02:29 PM
I'm a believer in the "next man up" philosophy so I would not expect us to go after a DE when the lines need to be addressed first. I am guessing Tuck will be here.

I will be shocked if we don't take a DE in the first or second rounds.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 02:32 PM
I will be shocked if we don't take a DE in the first or second rounds.

Before we address the lines, secondary, and LB?

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 02:57 PM
Before we address the lines, secondary, and LB?

Yes, for a few reasons: (1) I think that our entire defensive philosophy depends upon getting a pass rush, which makes the addition of a young talented DE a necessity after the pass rush production we got last year; (2) This Giants FO has shown that they don't place a high value on the LB position; (3) this Giants FO seems to think that they can get by with mid-late round project OL; and (4) I think that improving the pass rush is more of a priority than CB.

Although I don't disagree that OL, LB and CB are all areas of need.

If it was up to me, I'd love to see them draft a road-grader, nasty OL in the first.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 03:01 PM
Yes, for a few reasons: (1) I think that our entire defensive philosophy depends upon getting a pass rush, which makes the addition of a young talented DE a necessity after the pass rush production we got last year; (2) This Giants FO has shown that they don't place a high value on the LB position; (3) this Giants FO seems to think that they can get by with mid-late round project OL; and (4) I think that improving the pass rush is more of a priority than CB.

Although I don't disagree that OL, LB and CB are all areas of need.

If it was up to me, I'd love to see them draft a road-grader, nasty OL in the first.

Don't flip flop on me, I was ready with a zinger lol at my age that doesn't happen often

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 03:13 PM
Don't flip flop on me, I was ready with a zinger lol at my age that doesn't happen often

I've given up on Reese drafting a stud LB or OL in the first.

The fact that we drafted JPP when we had a younger and healthier Tuck and Osi shows you that the FO will constantly look for ways to avoid any fall off in our pass rush production.

Sundown
01-10-2013, 03:13 PM
Watching these vids did nothing more but aggravate me; why the hell the coaches didn't put him in the game every now and again is beyond me!!

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 04:00 PM
I'm just not sure he could be an impact player. Yes he worked over some tackles in preseason who likely are on practice squads now. And he does a good job with his hands and playing with leverage. But he is so limited physically.

Maybe an nfl weight and conditioning program can help.

But I need to see much much more of him before thinking he has any sort of chance of replacing an all-pro de

This line of logic is not needed here sir!

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 04:23 PM
I've given up on Reese drafting a stud LB or OL in the first.

The fact that we drafted JPP when we had a younger and healthier Tuck and Osi shows you that the FO will constantly look for ways to avoid any fall off in our pass rush production.

So if the same thought process was used to sign Tracy and Ojomo?.....

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 04:29 PM
This line of logic is not needed here sir!

I'm with that thought process until we get to the part of replacing an All-Pro DE. The only DE playing close to that level is JPP and he's under contract already. Osi won't be here and he didn't play up to that standard in 2012 and I didn't see anything to make me think he's getting better. In fact, if 2012 was his audition for a new team, I don't think he's helped himself. Tuck will stay I guess and he's not playing at that level but he has that shoulder injury so maybe he can play better in 2013 but he's going to have to prove he can after resting his shoulder and whatever else may be hurting.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 04:36 PM
They can draft another DE or bring in a FA, no problem. But they are developing two DEs for a reason and I hope at least one of them pans out. But to say we are replacing a Pro Bowl DE now is just not the case. Which DE in 2012 played like an All-Pro?We need an All Pro end thats exactly my point. Osi and Tuck were they arent anymore they need high level physical talent replacements.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 04:40 PM
I cant believe that people dont see that its a huge issue the Giants arent getting to the QB. We dont have an edge rusher,We dont have an interior rusher either. U dont win with interior Olineman

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 04:44 PM
We need an All Pro end thats exactly my point. Osi and Tuck were they aren't anymore they need high level physical talent replacements.

I agree, but I don't believe drafting someone is going to get us there any faster than giving the guys we already drafted/signed a chance to prove their worth.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 04:44 PM
I've given up on Reese drafting a stud LB or OL in the first.

The fact that we drafted JPP when we had a younger and healthier Tuck and Osi shows you that the FO will constantly look for ways to avoid any fall off in our pass rush production.It has fallen off already if they dont get another 1 on this line for 2013, 2014 they wont make the playoffs either

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 04:46 PM
I cant believe that people dont see that its a huge issue the Giants arent getting to the QB. We dont have an edge rusher,We dont have an interior rusher either. U dont win with interior Olineman

I don't think anyone disputes this. It's a question of do we have someone on the roster who can get us there or not. Some of us think we may, and some don't. But I can't see is using a high drat choice with as many other serious holes as we have.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 04:47 PM
I agree, but I don't believe drafting someone is going to get us there any faster than giving the guys we already drafted/signed a chance to prove their worth.I completely disagree there is a reason these guys were late rounders and UFA they arent as physically talented as guys at the top of the draft. Tracy has been here for 3 years and hasnt sniffed the field. Ojomo is a mediocre player physically. I dont think u mess around at DE or CB u draft the best athletes and they are found early

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 04:49 PM
I'm with that thought process until we get to the part of replacing an All-Pro DE. The only DE playing close to that level is JPP and he's under contract already. Osi won't be here and he didn't play up to that standard in 2012 and I didn't see anything to make me think he's getting better. In fact, if 2012 was his audition for a new team, I don't think he's helped himself. Tuck will stay I guess and he's not playing at that level but he has that shoulder injury so maybe he can play better in 2013 but he's going to have to prove he can after resting his shoulder and whatever else may be hurting.

Okay.
so question
your have to make the decision of cutting one person, you can only keep one.
Osi Uymenoria or Justin Tuck
Usw whatever tools needed to make that decision and why?

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 04:51 PM
If the Giants go with JPP,Tuck,Ojomo and Tracy at DE next year no way they make the playoffs .

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 04:53 PM
I completely disagree there is a reason these guys were late rounders and UFA they arent as physically talented as guys at the top of the draft. Tracy has been here for 3 years and hasnt sniffed the field. Ojomo is a mediocre player physically. I dont think u mess around at DE or CB u draft the best athletes and they are found early

Tracy took 68 snaps this season playing behind JPP, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwanuka.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 04:53 PM
If the Giants go with JPP,Tuck,Ojomo and Tracy at DE next year no way they make the playoffs

We'll have to wait and see I guess, my crystal ball is on the blink :rolleyes:

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 04:54 PM
Tracy took 68 snaps this season playing behind JPP, Osi, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I dont look at not beating out Tuck for pass rushing snaps as a good thing

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 04:57 PM
I completely disagree there is a reason these guys were late rounders and UFA they arent as physically talented as guys at the top of the draft. Tracy has been here for 3 years and hasnt sniffed the field. Ojomo is a mediocre player physically. I dont think u mess around at DE or CB u draft the best athletes and they are found early
This.
It is not outside the norm to find a gem in UDFA or later rounds, but to secure a long term DE that can consistenly be a force on the line needs to be drafted early 1-2 round same goes for CB. anything outside of those rounds then your bargain hunting.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 05:01 PM
I dont look at not beating out Tuck for pass rushing snaps as a good thing

That's a coaching decision and they kept the fearsome foursome as they were. We'll watch the draft and FA signings with a lot of interest.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 05:02 PM
Okay.
so question
your have to make the decision of cutting one person, you can only keep one.
Osi Uymenoria or Justin Tuck
Usw whatever tools needed to make that decision and why?

I'd void Osi's contract. I don't see him regaining his former stature.

gmen0820
01-10-2013, 05:08 PM
I'm not looking for Ojomo to be a serious contributor for us in the future, just because it's unlikely that UDFA guys contribute extensively (despite our success with them). With that said, not so sure that we draft a rookie DE -- Ansah comes to mind -- and he comes in and has an impact as a starter. Other than Nicks and maybe Ross, I can't remember the last time we had a first round pick step in and seriously contribute at an area of need.

Ross, he was our second corner.

KP was a three-game starter at a questionable position for us his rookie year.

Nicks was solid, no doubt.

JPP didn't do much his rookie year, but he did flash potential.

Prince was mainly hurt, or getting picked on. Did improve some, though.

David Wilson is an exception, still can't believe TC gave him 250 carries this year.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 05:10 PM
I'm not looking for Ojomo to be a serious contributor for us in the future, just because it's unlikely that UDFA guys contribute extensively (despite our success with them). With that said, not so sure that we draft a rookie DE -- Ansah comes to mind -- and he comes in and has an impact as a starter. Other than Nicks and maybe Ross, I can't remember the last time we had a first round pick step in and seriously contribute at an area of need.

Ross, he was our second corner.

KP was a three-game starter at a questionable position for us his rookie year.

Nicks was solid, no doubt.

JPP didn't do much his rookie year, but he did flash potential.

Prince was mainly hurt, or getting picked on. Did improve some, though.

David Wilson is an exception, still can't believe TC gave him 250 carries this year.


I'm glad we have Reese to make these calls

We also have Hynoski as a serious UDFA success story

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 05:18 PM
I'd void Osi's contract. I don't see him regaining his former stature.


So based on Osi's production vs Tucks this year and years before even if reduced, you would still take Tuck?
Taking into account that Tuck was the captain and played and acted lesser than that all season and has been on a decline for more than a year now;
Taking into account that Osi is on a rotation where Tuck is a starter and Osi was still more impactful on this seasons defense;
Taking into account that Top 5 DE money might not be needed to resign him, cause he has stated before he wants to retire a Giant;
you would still take a more oft injured Tuck than Osi?

no disrespect but I would like to know how much of that decision is based on the negativity surrounding Osi and everything that has transpired.

Don't get me wrong, I agree Osi's decline worries me but your talking about bringing in new DE's and increasing the role of the ones we currently have, and you want their role model/mentor or point of reference so to say to be Tuck? JPP is too young to be a mentor he is still learning to expand his game. Osi is better for this role, he has done it before with JPP and Tuck.

JesseJames
01-10-2013, 05:19 PM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.
why couldn't Ojomo get on the field to replace or at least give a rest to Tuck who was having a terrible season

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 05:21 PM
So based on Osi's production vs Tucks this year and years before even if reduced, you would still take Tuck?
Taking into account that Tuck was the captain and played and acted lesser than that all season and has been on a decline for more than a year now;
Taking into account that Osi is on a rotation where Tuck is a starter and Osi was still more impactful on this seasons defense;
Taking into account that Top 5 DE money might not be needed to resign him, cause he has stated before he wants to retire a Giant;
you would still take a more oft injured Tuck than Osi?

no disrespect but I would like to know how much of that decision is based on the negativity surrounding Osi and everything that has transpired.

Don't get me wrong, I agree Osi's decline worries me but your talking about bringing in new DE's and increasing the role of the ones we currently have, and you want their role model/mentor or point of reference so to say to be Tuck? JPP is too young to be a mentor he is still learning to expand his game. Osi is better for this role, he has done it before with JPP and Tuck.


A lot as to do with Osi's attitude, but neither he nor Tuck distinguished themselves in 2012. I would care if they both left to be honest.

As for mentoring, Reese gave us that answer when he said he'd like Strahan to tutor JPP

gmen0820
01-10-2013, 05:23 PM
I'm glad we have Reese to make these calls

We also have Hynoski as a serious UDFA success storyYeah Reese sure does have his finds. Cruz/Hyno/Boothe/Bradshaw on offense were all UDFA/low draft picks (some not by us) that are nice contributors for us.

Stevie, Hill, Kuhn, and Williams are all promising players on defense that were all UDFA/low picks as well.

Not saying we don't have success with them, but I can't not view them all as isolated good finds.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 05:27 PM
How many top pass rushers around the league are later rounds or undrafted guys?

Honestly curious.

Quick little survey, the top 15 guys in the league in sacks.
JJ Watt - 1st round
Aldon Smith - 1st round
Von Miller - 1st round
Cameron Wake - undrafted
Clay Matthews - 1st round
Geno Atkins - 4th round
Charles Johnson - 3rd round
Jared Allen - 4th round
Chris Clemons- undrafted
Michael Johnson - 3rd round
Chis Long - 1st round
Julius Peppers - 1st round
Demarcus Ware - 1st round
Elvis Dumervil - 4th round
Greg Hardy - 6th round

Then lets pull out the guys who were 4th round picks or later.
Wake, Atkins, Allen, Clemons, Dumervil, Hardy.

Ignore Atkins because he is an interior rusher.

Do the rest of them have something in common? Lets see.

Size
Wake - 6'3 260
Allen - 6'6 270
Clemons - 6'3 255
Dumervil - 6'0 255
Hardy - 6'4 277

So really, only Allen and Hardy could be considered "ideal size". The rest are clearly undersized guys.

Ojomo, for comparison is roughly the same size as Hardy, 6'4 275. So he does have close to ideal size.
So size shouldnt be the problem for him.

Lets compare athleticism with Ojomo, Allen, and Hardy. Since those are late rounds (or UDFA) guys with size.
Lets use 10 yard split, vertical jump, short shuttle, 3 cone, and broad jump.
Im ignoring 40 time because what I want to compare is both explosion, agility, and balance.

Ojomo -
10yd - 1.75
Vert - 31"
SS - 4.63
3 cone - 7.91
broad - 9'4"

Allen -
10 yd - 1.68
vert - 33"
SS - 4.34
3 cone - 7.11
broad - 10'

Hardy
10 yd - 1.75
vert - 35"
SS - 4.65
3 cone - 7.25
broad - 9'9"

Overall, his athleticism is relatively similar to Hardy's. Hardy has a bit more explosion and agility. But that is where the parallel's end. Hardy had shown up to the combine significantly out of shape. He was projected after his 2008 season as a possible first round pick, but got injured for a lot of 09. After hurting himself at the combine, he went to his proday and put up these numbers

10 yd- 1.67
vert - 36"
SS - 4062
3 cone - 7.13
broad - 10'1"

Essentially blowing Ojomo out of the water in every drill.

The summary here is, late round pass rushers that end up being successful usually go late because a lack of size, which is not Ojomo's issue.
The few that have size that still have gone late or undrafted are much more physically gifted than Ojomo.

Im rooting for Ojomo to be successful, but he has a huge upfield battle. And unless he can somehow gain considerable athleticism which he has never shown in college or in preseason, I just dont see him making much of an impact.

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 05:32 PM
A lot as to do with Osi's attitude, but neither he nor Tuck distinguished themselves in 2012. I would care if they both left to be honest.

As for mentoring, Reese gave us that answer when he said he'd like Strahan to tutor JPP

Yeah this is my point. Osi's attitude has been resolved by both parties but fans feel a need to hold onto that. when I look at this situation, i want the person that has the best chance of getting us the ball back on defense and thats Osi.
Retain Osi
Release Tuck
Get a Top flight DT and DE in rounds 1-3
and Find a side line to side line thumper at SAM, if your worried about Osi versus the run
Start Osi rotating in the 1st round DE and Ojomo.

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 05:56 PM
why couldn't Ojomo get on the field to replace or at least give a rest to Tuck who was having a terrible season

Because the coaches, who know the players much better than we ever will, felt that a worn-down and ineffective Tuck was still better than Ojomo.

TCHOF
01-10-2013, 05:58 PM
How many top pass rushers around the league are later rounds or undrafted guys?

Honestly curious.

Quick little survey, the top 15 guys in the league in sacks.
JJ Watt - 1st round
Aldon Smith - 1st round
Von Miller - 1st round
Cameron Wake - undrafted
Clay Matthews - 1st round
Geno Atkins - 4th round
Charles Johnson - 3rd round
Jared Allen - 4th round
Chris Clemons- undrafted
Michael Johnson - 3rd round
Chis Long - 1st round
Julius Peppers - 1st round
Demarcus Ware - 1st round
Elvis Dumervil - 4th round
Greg Hardy - 6th round

Then lets pull out the guys who were 4th round picks or later.
Wake, Atkins, Allen, Clemons, Dumervil, Hardy.

Ignore Atkins because he is an interior rusher.

Do the rest of them have something in common? Lets see.

Size
Wake - 6'3 260
Allen - 6'6 270
Clemons - 6'3 255
Dumervil - 6'0 255
Hardy - 6'4 277

So really, only Allen and Hardy could be considered "ideal size". The rest are clearly undersized guys.

Ojomo, for comparison is roughly the same size as Hardy, 6'4 275. So he does have close to ideal size.
So size shouldnt be the problem for him.

Lets compare athleticism with Ojomo, Allen, and Hardy. Since those are late rounds (or UDFA) guys with size.
Lets use 10 yard split, vertical jump, short shuttle, 3 cone, and broad jump.
Im ignoring 40 time because what I want to compare is both explosion, agility, and balance.

Ojomo -
10yd - 1.75
Vert - 31"
SS - 4.63
3 cone - 7.91
broad - 9'4"

Allen -
10 yd - 1.68
vert - 33"
SS - 4.34
3 cone - 7.11
broad - 10'

Hardy
10 yd - 1.75
vert - 35"
SS - 4.65
3 cone - 7.25
broad - 9'9"

Overall, his athleticism is relatively similar to Hardy's. Hardy has a bit more explosion and agility. But that is where the parallel's end. Hardy had shown up to the combine significantly out of shape. He was projected after his 2008 season as a possible first round pick, but got injured for a lot of 09. After hurting himself at the combine, he went to his proday and put up these numbers

10 yd- 1.67
vert - 36"
SS - 4062
3 cone - 7.13
broad - 10'1"

Essentially blowing Ojomo out of the water in every drill.

The summary here is, late round pass rushers that end up being successful usually go late because a lack of size, which is not Ojomo's issue.
The few that have size that still have gone late or undrafted are much more physically gifted than Ojomo.

Im rooting for Ojomo to be successful, but he has a huge upfield battle. And unless he can somehow gain considerable athleticism which he has never shown in college or in preseason, I just dont see him making much of an impact.

Good post. Very informative.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:05 PM
Yeah this is my point. Osi's attitude has been resolved by both parties but fans feel a need to hold onto that. when I look at this situation, i want the person that has the best chance of getting us the ball back on defense and thats Osi.
Retain Osi
Release Tuck
Get a Top flight DT and DE in rounds 1-3
and Find a side line to side line thumper at SAM, if your worried about Osi versus the run
Start Osi rotating in the 1st round DE and Ojomo.


At what price for Osi? Osi says he's a "starter." I can't agree with his assessment

We still have Kiwanuka who, to me, is a better DE than LB.

I agree with you on this though, I'd be a terrible GM

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 06:06 PM
He is an undrafted FA who played well in the preseason but couldn't get on the field this year. To think that he would be a suitable replacement for Osi is a pipe dream.

I hope for all of our sakes that this is not the Giants' plan.

why?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:06 PM
Because the coaches, who know the players much better than we ever will, felt that a worn-down and ineffective Tuck was still better than Ojomo.

Very few here seem to agree with your (and my) position on this

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 06:12 PM
At what price for Osi? Osi says he's a "starter." I can't agree with his assessment

We still have Kiwanuka who, to me, is a better DE than LB.

I agree with you on this though, I'd be a terrible GM

I would probably turn this team into a hybrid cowboys/jets a rodeo-circus.

Not sure what Osi is truly asking for, so I don't know what he should be retained at. If it came down to losing Osi then so be it, but I just feel that he still has more to give than Tuck. I can be wrong as well. Not sure what they do with Kiwi he is not terrible at the SAM and we haven't seen a consistent season of him starting in the dirt so we can't truly tell is his pressure is ability or the Opposition being caught off guard.

AntB
01-10-2013, 06:16 PM
If Kiwi moves back to DE permanently then we're OK there with JPP, Kiwi, Tuck and Ojo and Tracy can compete with whoever for the 4 and 5th spot. We really need a big impact DT who can stop the run and also get penetration. Like a Coffield or Canty at his best.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:17 PM
I would probably turn this team into a hybrid cowboys/jets a rodeo-circus.

Not sure what Osi is truly asking for, so I don't know what he should be retained at. If it came down to losing Osi then so be it, but I just feel that he still has more to give than Tuck. I can be wrong as well. Not sure what they do with Kiwi he is not terrible at the SAM and we haven't seen a consistent season of him starting in the dirt so we can't truly tell is his pressure is ability or the Opposition being caught off guard.

I'd love to know who Reese sees as dead wood

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 06:18 PM
How many top pass rushers around the league are later rounds or undrafted guys?

Honestly curious.

Quick little survey, the top 15 guys in the league in sacks.
JJ Watt - 1st round
Aldon Smith - 1st round
Von Miller - 1st round
Cameron Wake - undrafted
Clay Matthews - 1st round
Geno Atkins - 4th round
Charles Johnson - 3rd round
Jared Allen - 4th round
Chris Clemons- undrafted
Michael Johnson - 3rd round
Chis Long - 1st round
Julius Peppers - 1st round
Demarcus Ware - 1st round
Elvis Dumervil - 4th round
Greg Hardy - 6th round

Then lets pull out the guys who were 4th round picks or later.
Wake, Atkins, Allen, Clemons, Dumervil, Hardy.

Ignore Atkins because he is an interior rusher.

Do the rest of them have something in common? Lets see.

Size
Wake - 6'3 260
Allen - 6'6 270
Clemons - 6'3 255
Dumervil - 6'0 255
Hardy - 6'4 277

So really, only Allen and Hardy could be considered "ideal size". The rest are clearly undersized guys.

Ojomo, for comparison is roughly the same size as Hardy, 6'4 275. So he does have close to ideal size.
So size shouldnt be the problem for him.

Lets compare athleticism with Ojomo, Allen, and Hardy. Since those are late rounds (or UDFA) guys with size.
Lets use 10 yard split, vertical jump, short shuttle, 3 cone, and broad jump.
Im ignoring 40 time because what I want to compare is both explosion, agility, and balance.

Ojomo -
10yd - 1.75
Vert - 31"
SS - 4.63
3 cone - 7.91
broad - 9'4"

Allen -
10 yd - 1.68
vert - 33"
SS - 4.34
3 cone - 7.11
broad - 10'

Hardy
10 yd - 1.75
vert - 35"
SS - 4.65
3 cone - 7.25
broad - 9'9"

Overall, his athleticism is relatively similar to Hardy's. Hardy has a bit more explosion and agility. But that is where the parallel's end. Hardy had shown up to the combine significantly out of shape. He was projected after his 2008 season as a possible first round pick, but got injured for a lot of 09. After hurting himself at the combine, he went to his proday and put up these numbers

10 yd- 1.67
vert - 36"
SS - 4062
3 cone - 7.13
broad - 10'1"

Essentially blowing Ojomo out of the water in every drill.

The summary here is, late round pass rushers that end up being successful usually go late because a lack of size, which is not Ojomo's issue.
The few that have size that still have gone late or undrafted are much more physically gifted than Ojomo.

Im rooting for Ojomo to be successful, but he has a huge upfield battle. And unless he can somehow gain considerable athleticism which he has never shown in college or in preseason, I just dont see him making much of an impact.

Slip, by a large margin, this is by far the biggest, most powerful, extremely juicy heavily high powered piece of garbage i have ever read on here. I feel like i just read a whole bunch of nothing. Not once did anything you just state, come close to being considered a rational thought. On top of that you are wrong.

Is Ojomo going to be good? That is something none of us know yet, and only time will tell. However, instead of going into details and giving you examples, all ill say is this.

You ignored how well a guy played on the field (even if its preseason), And what was your counter argument? Combine stats. That is as ignorant as it can get.

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 06:23 PM
I'd love to know who Reese sees as dead wood
agreed

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:24 PM
Slip, by a large margin, this is by far the biggest, most powerful, extremely juicy heavily high powered piece of garbage i have ever read on here. I feel like i just read a whole bunch of nothing.


I am not going to bring up examples or even go into detail for this one. All i am going to say is this. You ignored how well a guy played on the field (even if its preseason), in order to bring up combine stats. That is as ignorant as it can get.


Easy up now.

moosedrool
01-10-2013, 06:25 PM
And unless he can somehow gain considerable athleticism which he has never shown in college or in preseason, I just dont see him making much of an impact.

After watching Ojomo's videos from the OP, Ojomo looked like the most athletic guy on the field, so I'm not sure why you say the guy needs to gain athleticism. Good speed, balance, and body control. I know he's playing against practice squad talent, but so was everone else and Ojomo was the only guy making plays.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:26 PM
agreed

I don't know if this is right, but it seems to me you have to at least have an idea who you're going to release before you can start signing players in any major way.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:27 PM
After watching Ojomo's videos from the OP, Ojomo looked like the most athletic guy on the field, so I'm not sure why you say the guy needs to gain athleticism. Good speed, balance, and body control. I know he's playing against practice squad talent, but so was everone else and Ojomo was the only guy making plays.

Someone else said Ojomo has no right even being on the team EXCEPT for his preseason play. All I can say is I hope it pays off. He was signed for three years.

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 06:32 PM
Easy up now.

Im easy. I just wanted to enforce how strongly i disagreed with his idea. (Stephen A. smith style) Nothing personal lol.

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 06:36 PM
After watching Ojomo's videos from the OP, Ojomo looked like the most athletic guy on the field, so I'm not sure why you say the guy needs to gain athleticism. Good speed, balance, and body control.

+1

This is what im talking about. How do you ignore how good someone looked during a game because you're not impressed with their combine? correct me if i am wrong, but at the end of the day, isnt on field play what really matters?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:39 PM
+1

This is what im talking about. How do you ignore how good someone looked during a game because you're not impressed with their combine? correct me if i am wrong, but at the end of the day, isnt on field play what really matters?

I feel the same way as did the team as that's the only reason he got signed. But everyone doesn't see it that way as was the case with Cruz. It might have been the case for Hynoski as well except we had no sitting full back at the time other than Pascoe.

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 06:42 PM
I feel the same way as did the team as that's the only reason he got signed. But everyone doesn't see it that way as was the case with Cruz. It might have been the case for Hynoski as well except we had no sitting full back at the time other than Pascoe.

I questioned this before. I even remember making a thread about if TC is your coach, how do you earn play time? to be honest it doesnt seem like they go by how you play on the field.Maybe he wants experience?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 06:45 PM
I questioned this before. I even remember making a thread about if TC is your coach, how do you earn play time? to be honest it doesnt seem like they go by how you play on the field.Maybe he wants experience?

Maybe, but then how do we explain his comfort level with "next man up." He never flinches publicly. He could be tossing his cookies in private though :)

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 07:20 PM
I would probably turn this team into a hybrid cowboys/jets a rodeo-circus.

Not sure what Osi is truly asking for, so I don't know what he should be retained at. If it came down to losing Osi then so be it, but I just feel that he still has more to give than Tuck. I can be wrong as well. Not sure what they do with Kiwi he is not terrible at the SAM and we haven't seen a consistent season of him starting in the dirt so we can't truly tell is his pressure is ability or the Opposition being caught off guard.keep in mind that tuck played more snaps than osi and started. when tuck was used in the same manner osi was the last game vs philly, tuck put up beastly numbers.

imo, with tuck, its not that he isnt awesome vs the run or awesome vs the pass, its that his body cant hold up trying to do both. i think PF and TC need to decide which aspect of tucks game is more important to our success, his play vs the run or pass, and then use him as a rotational DE in those constructs...meaning if PF feels tuck helps us most when hes getting after the qb, then use him like osi as a pass rush specialist. if PF feels tuck helps us most by being stout vs the run, use him in those situations. tuck needs to be on a snap count, otherwise imo he'll just be ineffective at both pass/run.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 07:56 PM
+1

This is what im talking about. How do you ignore how good someone looked during a game because you're not impressed with their combine? correct me if i am wrong, but at the end of the day, isnt on field play what really matters?

Or not impressed with their ENTIRE COLLEGE CAREER?

It's not like he's from some small name school and never got an opportunity.

He was undrafted for a reason. He was simply a very average player. I saw nothing special physically from him in preseason. He did a good job with technique.


And it's not like he is Cruz who was an unrefined player who is physically gifted.

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 08:00 PM
I don't know if this is right, but it seems to me you have to at least have an idea who you're going to release before you can start signing players in any major way.

If that is the case, then why hasn't osi been released already? are they waiting till the season is finally over? is there a process to this that i am forgetting about? if it was a sclear cut as Osi wants too much, we can't afford that. I would of thought he would of been out the door already, whats the hold up?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:03 PM
If that is the case, then why hasn't osi been released already? are they waiting till the season is finally over? is there a process to this that i am forgetting about? if it was a sclear cut as Osi wants too much, we can't afford that. I would of thought he would of been out the door already, whats the hold up?

The only thing I can think of is the post season evaluation isn't completed yet, and that makes sense as complicated as that should be after a very disappointing season. Osi is not the only consideration. We have 20+ free agents if I remember correctly.

I guess what's the rush applies?

moosedrool
01-10-2013, 08:07 PM
Here's a scouting report on Ojomo. Funny, they list his athleticism as a positive. He also switched to DT his junior season.

http://www.sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/de/adewale-ojomo/

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 08:17 PM
RF, iirc, it has something to do with the first day of the new calendar nfl year. thats when osi is technically released. thats what i remember reading at least, no link so take it fwiw. it had something to do with the contract being written as 2 yrs but it was voided the first day of the new nfl year. the giants dont have to release osi, hes a FA from what I gather. maybe JR extends him tho who knows

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 08:21 PM
Here's a scouting report on Ojomo. Funny, they list his athleticism as a positive. He also switched to DT his junior season.

http://www.sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/de/adewale-ojomo/

Good for them. I don't see it

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 08:21 PM
with the yr osi had, maybe he lowered his expectations of being paid top 5 or 10 or whatever and being a starter. maybe he'd rather at this point collect what he can and retire a giant. i wouldnt mind having him back. i think tuck was the one who hurt the dl most and it wasnt really his fault even either. tuck just has to be used like osi is used. tucks body cant hold up being asked to be a beast vs the run AND pass. it should be PF using tuck to be a beast vs the run OR pass.
if we used tuck on running downs to play vs the run. and osi on passing downs, id be cool with both being back. but adding another legit dude would still be a must. a starter opposite of JPP is whats really needed tbh imo. tuck and osi cant do it any more from a starters role imo. they both should be beasts tho used situationally....but wed need a viable starter unless PF tries adding just another random guy/draft pick and tries using the 3 of FA or draft pick/osi/tuck as an aggregate to create that quality starter opposite JPP. but i dunno

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:21 PM
RF, iirc, it has something to do with the first day of the new calendar nfl year. thats when osi is technically released. thats what i remember reading at least, no link so take it fwiw. it had something to do with the contract being written as 2 yrs but it was voided the first day of the new nfl year. the giants dont have to release osi, hes a FA from what I gather. maybe JR extends him tho who knows

We'll see if we can find a link for that

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 08:23 PM
Here's a scouting report on Ojomo. Funny, they list his athleticism as a positive. He also switched to DT his junior season.

http://www.sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/de/adewale-ojomo/id say that described his preseason play pretty accurately

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 08:24 PM
We'll see if we can find a link for thatbtw, i remember in another thread, it was questioned whether osi had claimed he wanted to be a starter or not, do u recall that? I believe i asnwered that as well but never checked, he stated he is and wants to be a starter right? just not with us in our situation...sorry for the off topic question...

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:27 PM
RF, iirc, it has something to do with the first day of the new calendar nfl year. thats when osi is technically released. thats what i remember reading at least, no link so take it fwiw. it had something to do with the contract being written as 2 yrs but it was voided the first day of the new nfl year. the giants dont have to release osi, hes a FA from what I gather. maybe JR extends him tho who knows

This isn't exactly what we're looking for but:

http://www.bucsnation.com/2013/1/8/3852664/nfl-offseason-calendar-2013-free-agency-draft-scouting-combine-important-dates

Full Calendar:

January 15 -- Deadline for underclassmen to petition for special eligibility for the 2013 NFL Draft.J

anuary 19 -- East-West Shrine Game, Tropicana Field, St. Petersburg, Florida.January 20 -- AFC and NFC Championship Games.January 24-25 -- Regional Combine, University of Hawaii, Honolulu, Hawaii

January 26 -- Senior Bowl, Ladd-Peebles Stadium, Mobile, Alabama.

January 27 -- AFC-NFC Pro Bowl, Aloha Stadium, Honolulu, Hawaii.

January 27 -- An assistant coach, whose team is participating in the Super Bowl, who has previously interviewed for another club's head coaching job may have a second interview with such club no later than the Sunday preceding the Super Bowl.

February 2 -- Texas vs. Nation College All-Star Game, Eagle Stadium, Allen, Texas.

February 3 -- Super Bowl XLVII, Mercedes-Benz Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana.

February 9-10 -- Regional Combine, Orange Coast College-Lebard Stadium, Los Angeles, California

February 16 -- Regional Combine, Methodist Training Center (Texans (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/houston-texans)), Houston, Texas

February 17 -- Regional Combine, Cleveland Browns (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/cleveland-browns) Training Facility, Cleveland, Ohio

February 20-26 -- Combine Timing and Testing, Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana.

March 2-3 -- Regional Combine, Atlantic Health Jets (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/new-york-jets) Training Facility, New York/New Jersey

March 9 -- Regional Combine, One Buccaneer Place, Tampa, Florida

March 10 -- Regional Combine, Halas Hall (Bears (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/chicago-bears)), Chicago, Illinois

March 9-11 -- Clubs are permitted to enter into contract negotiations with certified agents of players who will be Unrestricted Free Agents at the end of the current League Year.

March 12 -- Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must exercise options for 2013 on all players who have option clauses in their 2012 contracts.

March 12 -- Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must submit Qualifying Offers to their Restricted Free Agents with expiring contracts and to whom they desire to retain a Right of First Refusal/Compensation.

March 12 -- Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must submit a minimum salary offer to retain exclusive negotiating rights to their players with expiring 2012 contracts and who have fewer than three seasons of free agency credit.

March 12 -- All 2012 player contracts will expire at 4:00 p.m., New York time.

March 12 -- Top-51 Begins. All clubs must be under the Salary Cap prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time.

March 12 -- The 2013 League Year and Free Agency period begin at 4:00 p.m., New York time.

March 12 -- Trading period begins at 4:00 p.m., New York time, for 2013 after expiration of all 2012 contracts.

March 16-17 -- Regional Combine, Atlanta Falcons (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/atlanta-falcons) Training Facility, Atlanta, Georgia

March 17-20 -- Annual League Meeting, The Biltmore, Phoenix, Arizona.

March 23-24 -- Regional Combine, Virginia Mason Athletic Center (Seahawks (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/seattle-seahawks)), Seattle, Washington

March 23-24 -- Regional Combine, Baltimore Ravens (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/baltimore-ravens) Training Facility, Baltimore, Maryland

April 7-8 -- Super Regional Combine, Cowboys (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/dallas-cowboys) Stadium, Dallas, Texas

April 25-27 -- NFL Draft, New York City, New York.May 20-22 -- NFL Spring League Meeting, Hyatt-Harborside, Boston, Massachusetts.

September 5, 8-9 -- NFL Kickoff 2013

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 08:27 PM
Or not impressed with their ENTIRE COLLEGE CAREER?

It's not like he's from some small name school and never got an opportunity.

He was undrafted for a reason. He was simply a very average player. I saw nothing special physically from him in preseason. He did a good job with technique.


Cruz was undrafted for a reason. Tom Brady was drafted late for a reason. Imagine if their coaches told them,"hey, i know you looked good when we gave you an opportunity to play in the NFL, however im not impressed with your combine and college stats. Sorry. i have to let you go."

Lol but on a serious note i dont think words could explain how much your concept doesnt make any sense, and i still cant believe you brought up combine stats and compared players heights and weights. What was that all about? did you think you were making a rational point by looking all of that up?

my only question for you is do you actually believe that what you said made sense?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:32 PM
RF, iirc, it has something to do with the first day of the new calendar nfl year. thats when osi is technically released. thats what i remember reading at least, no link so take it fwiw. it had something to do with the contract being written as 2 yrs but it was voided the first day of the new nfl year. the giants dont have to release osi, hes a FA from what I gather. maybe JR extends him tho who knows

Osi is shown as a free agent in 2013

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?27012-NYG-Player-Contracts

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 08:32 PM
RF-yeah that was, well some of that lol was part of what I remembered reading with Osis contract. Although to be honest, it is such a confusing contract to begin with, that wouldnt surprise me at all if theres clauses for JR to be able to keep him as well as any other possible scenario. legalese is, aside from being grammatically correct according to my spell check lmao, pretty ambiguous and can be interpreted many ways.
my understanding is, that theres a specific date that matches with the wording of osi's contract, and that date is when it becomes voided, despite it originally being written as a 2 yr deal lmao...maybe that was a way to soften the cap hit to the raise osi got?

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 08:33 PM
Cruz was undrafted for a reason. Tom Brady was drafted late for a reason. Imagine if their coaches told them,"hey, i know you looked good when we gave you an opportunity to play in the NFL, however im not impressed with your combine and college stats. Sorry. i have to let you go."

Lol but on a serious note i dont think words could explain how much your concept doesnt make any sense, and i still cant believe you brought up combine stats and compared players heights and weights. What was that all about? did you think you were making a rational point by looking all of that up?

my only question for you is do you actually believe that what you said made sense?

Absolutely makes a rational point.

Why does the combine exist? Why do they do drills? So they have some controlled measure to evaluate athleticism.

DEs who often go late/undrafted do so either because of lack of size or athleticism.

This is simple logic.

Why did JPP go in the first? because he had both size and athleticism.

Why did Von Miller go in the first? Because while he had average size, he had incredible athleticism.

Why did Ojomo go undrafted? He has good size. It was because he has average athleticism and was not a very good player in college.


Yes we know the stories of undrafted players becoming successful. What is the common thing about all the undrafted players? They either had, or developed NFL caliber skill sets.

Cruz for instance already had the physical tools. He had to learn the mental aspect, the technique.

Ojomo has average at best athleticism, and in preseason you saw great technique. So how does he improve where he was to develop into something more? Is he going to gain athleticism now that he is in the NFL? Perhaps, though thats very unlikely.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:34 PM
RF-yeah that was, well some of that lol was part of what I remembered reading with Osis contract. Although to be honest, it is such a confusing contract to begin with, that wouldnt surprise me at all if theres clauses for JR to be able to keep him as well as any other possible scenario. legalese is, aside from being grammatically correct according to my spell check lmao, pretty ambiguous and can be interpreted many ways.
my understanding is, that theres a specific date that matches with the wording of osi's contract, and that date is when it becomes voided, despite it originally being written as a 2 yr deal lmao...maybe that was a way to soften the cap hit to the raise osi got?

I don't get the impression Reese rushes personnel decisions

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 08:41 PM
Why does the combine exist? Why do they do drills? So they have some controlled measure to evaluate athleticism.



Whats more important in evaluating a player? Combine stats, or how they actually play In the preseason?

Dont dodge this question.

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 08:42 PM
Absolutely makes a rational point.

Why does the combine exist? Why do they do drills? So they have some controlled measure to evaluate athleticism.

DEs who often go late/undrafted do so either because of lack of size or athleticism.

This is simple logic.

Why did JPP go in the first? because he had both size and athleticism.

Why did Von Miller go in the first? Because while he had average size, he had incredible athleticism.

Why did Ojomo go undrafted? He has good size. It was because he has average athleticism and was not a very good player in college.


Yes we know the stories of undrafted players becoming successful. What is the common thing about all the undrafted players? They either had, or developed NFL caliber skill sets.

Cruz for instance already had the physical tools. He had to learn the mental aspect, the technique.

Ojomo has average at best athleticism, and in preseason you saw great technique. So how does he improve where he was to develop into something more? Is he going to gain athleticism now that he is in the NFL? Perhaps, though thats very unlikely.in just reading the post u responded to, i thought u presented ur opinion very well with actual numbers that does correlate. now, as usual, a person with a different opinion slams the other poster...for what reason? to feel high up on his high horse? i dunno...
but slip i thought that post was pretty informative and did make some nice points.
edit-but, i dsagree with u. i think ojomo has a pretty decent shot at becoming a contributing player...

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:44 PM
btw, i remember in another thread, it was questioned whether osi had claimed he wanted to be a starter or not, do u recall that? I believe i asnwered that as well but never checked, he stated he is and wants to be a starter right? just not with us in our situation...sorry for the off topic question...

I think it was the thread wherein he said we'd miss him

Giantsfan241
01-10-2013, 08:45 PM
Ojomo is beast I remember him in pre season he looked like a HUNGRY jpp very atheltic

TheEnigma
01-10-2013, 08:48 PM
Assuming Ojomo and Tracy are in fact beasts and capable of replacing Osi and Tuck in the future, would it hurt a defense that is built on rushing the passer to have another talented player capable of doing that? Can you confidently say someone of Tracy's size would be suitable to play a hefty amount of snaps on the line? What if JPP got hurt in the offseason and we didn't draft an early round DE in the draft? Would you feel confident in Tuck, Ojomo, and Tracy?

Giantsfan241
01-10-2013, 08:48 PM
we need to cut tuck

Giantsfan241
01-10-2013, 08:49 PM
jpp can not get injured he is too muscular remember that

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 08:52 PM
Assuming Ojomo and Tracy are in fact beasts and capable of replacing Osi and Tuck in the future, would it hurt a defense that is built on rushing the passer to have another talented player capable of doing that? Can you confidently say someone of Tracy's size would be suitable to play a hefty amount of snaps on the line? What if JPP got hurt in the offseason and we didn't draft an early round DE in the draft? Would you feel confident in Tuck, Ojomo, and Tracy?

We'd do what we always do, find a veteran. Don't forget Kiwanuka

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 08:54 PM
We'd do what we always do, find a veteran. Don't forget Kiwanuka

Remember how that worked in 2008? Tried all season to bring in any DE they could. By the time the playoffs rolled around the DL had nothing left.

I still remember Jerome Mcdougle.

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 08:58 PM
Why does the combine exist? Why do they do drills? So they have some controlled measure to evaluate athleticism.



Whats more important in evaluating a player? Combine stats, or how they actually play In the preseason?

Dont dodge this question.

TheEnigma
01-10-2013, 08:59 PM
We'd do what we always do, find a veteran. Don't forget Kiwanuka

Who do you have in mind as a veteran pickup? And I'm not sure what to make of Kiwi at this point in his career. Can we just put him back on the line and expect average to above average production? Maybe but it's not a gamble I'd like to take. Let's just hope Reese finds the right answer.

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 09:00 PM
Cruz for instance already had the physical tools. He had to learn the mental aspect, the technique.

Ojomo has average at best athleticism, and in preseason you saw great technique. So how does he improve where he was to develop into something more? Is he going to gain athleticism now that he is in the NFL? Perhaps, though thats very unlikely.

420 do you agree with this?

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 09:01 PM
btw, i remember in another thread, it was questioned whether osi had claimed he wanted to be a starter or not, do u recall that?
It was stated if you go look it up that he has infact said he can be a starter on any team.

I believe i asnwered that as well but never checked, he stated he is and wants to be a starter right?
I answered it for you in that post already, what the correlation of this to the topic at hand?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:04 PM
Who do you have in mind as a veteran pickup? And I'm not sure what to make of Kiwi at this point in his career. Can we just put him back on the line and expect average to above average production? Maybe but it's not a gamble I'd like to take. Let's just hope Reese finds the right answer.

Kiwanuka played on the line most of this season. I don't have a name as we don't know who will be out there when this hypothetical injury takes place.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:07 PM
Whats more important in evaluating a player? Combine stats, or how they actually play In the preseason?

Dont dodge this question.

Both equally. Have to ask yourself what he did better in preseason than he did in college.

Frankly, a couple of his sacks were almost gimmes.

An unblocked one right up the middle against Tebow, and a QB scramble who apparently couldnt run well.

Some were nice plays, he used his hands well and finished. I give him plenty of credit for that.

But you also have to look at the competition. Who was he playing against? Backup OL for the Bears and Jets? Two of the teams with the worst OTs in the league, and he was picking on their backups?

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 09:07 PM
Who do you have in mind as a veteran pickup? And I'm not sure what to make of Kiwi at this point in his career. Can we just put him back on the line and expect average to above average production? Maybe but it's not a gamble I'd like to take. Let's just hope Reese finds the right answer.
I think you need to shut up. all this logic is ridiculous.
Nothing against you Roa, I just want posters that feel the answers are crystal clear off of a couple of showing in preseason to know what they are in fact asking for. the game is different when battling 3rd stringers vs. 1st stringers especially as a UDFA. Not everyone is a Victor Cruz, Cameron wake succes type of player, it is assinie to expect this out of every player that flashes a little.

TheEnigma
01-10-2013, 09:11 PM
Kiwanuka played on the line most of this season. I don't have a name as we don't know who will be out there when this hypothetical injury takes place.

He did but the main question is can we get enough production out of him to assist our main man JPP? We can ignore the hypothetical injury but can we just rely on depth that has only shown brief flashes in the preseason to pick up a huge amount of slack left behind by Osi and eventually Tuck? Wouldn't an early round pass rusher also help everyone else by bringing in more competition?

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:12 PM
The other part of it, Ojomo had 4 sacks in preseason and everyone thinks because of that he is an all-pro.

Does that mean Matt Broha and his 3.5 sacks is a probowler as well?

Or is that half a sack what separates an all-pro from a guy who barely will make a team?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:14 PM
I think you need to shut up. all this logic is ridiculous.
Nothing against you Roa, I just want posters that feel the answers are crystal clear off of a couple of showing in preseason to know what they are in fact asking for. the game is different when battling 3rd stringers vs. 1st stringers especially as a UDFA. Not everyone is a Victor Cruz, Cameron wake succes type of player, it is assinie to expect this out of every player that flashes a little.

I don't disagree, but I'm tired of watching the "All Pros" fail to produce. If Tracy and Ojomo are so bad, then sign a FA when the rat race begins

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:15 PM
The other part of it, Ojomo had 4 sacks in preseason and everyone thinks because of that he is an all-pro.

Does that mean Matt Broha and his 3.5 sacks is a probowler as well?

Or is that half a sack what separates an all-pro from a guy who barely will make a team?

I haven't seen anyone suggest Ojomo is All Pro

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:17 PM
I haven't seen anyone suggest Ojomo is All Pro

Isn't that what the thread is asking? If Ojomo can replace an all-pro DE?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:19 PM
Isn't that what the thread is asking? If Ojomo can replace an all-pro DE?

Nope. It asked is Ojomo is a suitable replacement for Osi.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:20 PM
Nope. It asked is Ojomo is a suitable replacement for Osi.

And Osi was an all-pro DE...

If the thread is just asking "who can replace Osi at his worst" then it's sort of pointless.

Who would want to replace bad play with more bad play?

TheEnigma
01-10-2013, 09:22 PM
It doesn't matter if we are replacing Osi, Tuck, the Wizard of Oz...

The real question is do we have someone on this roster already to take a consistent advantage of the 1-on-1's they will get with JPP opposite of them or do we need to look into the draft or FA for our long term answer?

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:23 PM
And Osi was an all-pro DE...

If the thread is just asking "who can replace Osi at his worst" then it's sort of pointless.

Who would want to replace bad play with more bad play?

You correctly said "was." I don't see him resurrecting the All Pro. You're assuming Ojomo can't step up, and I think the jury is still out on that.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:25 PM
You correctly said "was." I don't see him resurrecting the All Pro. You're assuming Ojomo can't step up, and I think the jury is still out on that.

Yes he was... Now he is not on the team. How are the giants going to replace a two time all-pro DE who was the teams best pass rusher in almost every season he played for them.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:27 PM
Yes he was... Now he is not on the team. How are the giants going to replace a two time all-pro DE who was the teams best pass rusher in almost every season he played for them.

We're talking about replacing a player who was not all that this season which, in the NFL, is what matters. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Osi's and Tuck's performance this season was surprisingly ineffective.

jomo
01-10-2013, 09:28 PM
I think the question is framed all wrong here. Let me give it a shot.

Is Ojomo ready to perform as an impact DE in the NFL?

Anyone who thinks they have enough information to answer that question thoughtfully is a little be out there.............

Uncoupling my cousin :D from Osi the question should also be asked:

Is Osi capable of performing as an impact DE in the NFL and is the money we'll have to pay him worth the risk?

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:28 PM
We're talking about replacing a player who was not all that this season which, in the NFL, is what matters. We're just going to have to agree to disagree

So why not ask if Ojomo can replace Tollefson then. More fitting.

BigJ
01-10-2013, 09:29 PM
I understand y people are calling for Ojomo becayse of what he did in preseason but do any if u understand tgat he was going against guys who are 4th strimg guys or didmt even make the team? U really think he is gonna get by Jason Peters? As someonw said before there are very few Victir Cryzes and Cameron Wakes out there.... We already have a guy who can fill in fir JPP.... Kiwi, u remember him ? Our first round draft pick at demd who has been playong lb for us is play at linebacker is below average. it's time to put him back on the line and just get a real outside linebacker

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:29 PM
So why not ask if Ojomo can replace Tollefson then. More fitting.

It's not my question

jomo
01-10-2013, 09:30 PM
Yes he was... Now he is not on the team. How are the giants going to replace a two time all-pro DE who was the teams best pass rusher in almost every season he played for them.Slip, George Patton said "all glory is fleeting". Osi's pro-bowl appearances are in the past and sort of meaningless. What are Ray Lewis' pro-bowls worth next year? The only thing that matters is the future. Is Osi capable of playing at that level again and what is the % chance of that happening?

Trying to connect Osi and Ojomo doesn't work here. We've got one guy on the slide and one guy on the rise, one guy playing for peanuts and one guy tying up a bunch of cap space.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:32 PM
I think the question is framed all wrong here. Let me give it a shot.

Is Ojomo ready to perform as an impact DE in the NFL?

Anyone who thinks they have enough information to answer that question thoughtfully is a little be out there.............

Uncoupling my cousin :D from Osi the question should also be asked:

Is Osi capable of performing as an impact DE in the NFL and is the money we'll have to pay him worth the risk?

The jury is out on your cousin

I don't think Osi is going to be better than he was in 2012 so, for me, that's a no.

slipknottin
01-10-2013, 09:34 PM
Slip, George Patton said "all glory is fleeting". Osi's pro-bowl appearances are in the past and sort of meaningless. What are Ray Lewis' pro-bowls worth next year? The only thing that matters is the future. Is Osi capable of playing at that level again and what is the % chance of that happening?

Trying to connect Osi and Ojomo doesn't work here. We've got one guy on the slide and one guy on the rise, one guy playing for peanuts and one guy tying up a bunch of cap space.

Exactly, so replacing Osi would mean Ojomo can do what? Be on the downside of his career and getting huge cap space?

Or does "replacing Osi" mean finding a new all-pro pass rusher?


Im not asking for them to keep Osi, I just take issue with asking if the undrafted guy is going to replace one of the giants best pass rushers.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:34 PM
He did but the main question is can we get enough production out of him to assist our main man JPP? We can ignore the hypothetical injury but can we just rely on depth that has only shown brief flashes in the preseason to pick up a huge amount of slack left behind by Osi and eventually Tuck? Wouldn't an early round pass rusher also help everyone else by bringing in more competition?

Given this team's record with starting high round picks, I'd rather they bring in a short term FA

TheEnigma
01-10-2013, 09:39 PM
Given this team's record with starting high round picks, I'd rather they bring in a short term FA

And that is a possibility. I'd like if we could acquire someone like Connor Barwin for a year or two but with our cap situation, not sure how liberal we can be with free agency.

jomo
01-10-2013, 09:40 PM
The jury is out on your cousin

I don't think Osi is going to be better than he was in 2012 so, for me, that's a no.We agree then, Osi is unlikely to be better in 2013 than he was in 2012 which means some fool will pay him much more than we will.

Ojomo, no one here can say whether he can be even good much less great. The coaches may have some insight but he was injured for part of training camp and the teams do very little hitting during the off season.

If Osi is gone next year we cannot enter the pre-season relying with any certainty on Ojomo.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:41 PM
And that is a possibility. I'd like if we could acquire someone like Connor Barwin for a year or two but with our cap situation, not sure how liberal we can be with free agency.

That's the big question. Reese will clear as much CAP space as he can and then do what he can.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:42 PM
We agree then, Osi is unlikely to be better in 2013 than he was in 2012 which means some fool will pay him much more than we will.

Ojomo, no one here can say whether he can be even good much less great. The coaches may have some insight but he was injured for part of training camp and the teams do very little hitting during the off season.

If Osi is gone next year we cannot enter the pre-season relying with any certainty on Ojomo.


We always agree lol

But I'm not giving up on Ojomo

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 09:43 PM
to replace a two time all-pro DE who was the teams best pass rusher in almost every season he played for them.

And this is my Qualm with the Osi antagonist's on these boards, They forget that the man is brilliant at forcing the ball out of the QB's hands but harp on his inability to play the run, If we asked Osi to play contain and focus more on stopping the run then you are limiting the player and crippling the defense. I.E the first Eagles game, you have to remember Osi does not have the frame of a Justin Tuck / JPP, he is infact built for the speed rush to get a jump on the ball and in the backfield as fast as possible. I think Osi's fix is not as simple but starts with DT that can push the QB deeper into the pocket and a SAM that can close the inside gaps left open by Osi rushing the outside lane. Tuck fix? i am going to need the weekend to figure that out.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:45 PM
And this is my Qualm with the Osi antagonist's on these boards, They forget that the man is brilliant at forcing the ball out of the QB's hands but harp on his inability to play the run, If we asked Osi to play contain and focus more on stopping the run then you are limiting the player and crippling the defense. I.E the first Eagles game, you have to remember Osi does not have the frame of a Justin Tuck / JPP, he is infact built for the speed rush to get a jump on the ball and in the backfield as fast as possible. I think Osi's fix is not as simple but starts with DT that can push the QB deeper into the pocket and a SAM that can close the inside gaps left open by Osi rushing the outside lane. Tuck fix? i am going to need the weekend to figure that out.

Let me know how I can help :p

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 09:49 PM
[QUOTE=jomo;658839]We've got one guy on the slide and one guy on the rise[QUOTE]
see this I disagree with.
To say Osi is on the decline would he not need to get more signifigant snaps than he has had in the past couple years? it s been what 1-2 years Osi has been a Situational guy? I think If he starts when the fixes i've mentioned he can bounce back. IMHO
To say Ojomo is on the rise, he would have to beat out a hobbled Tuck and a as you all like to say a declining malcontent Osi and get some signifigant reps as a rotational guy during the regular season. Pre-seasons is nice I get it, but even the jury wasn't completely out on cruz until that eagles game, remember he was dropping balls left and right coming back from that injury where all we had was a phenominal pre season preformance? then he shined. wanna wait till Ojomo lights up RG3/Romo/foles/Vick before we annoint him on the rise.


Oh Jomo.....

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 09:49 PM
Let me know how I can help :p
bring the jack!

Marvelousmik
01-10-2013, 09:50 PM
Both equally. Have to ask yourself what he did better in preseason than he did in college.

Frankly, a couple of his sacks were almost gimmes.

An unblocked one right up the middle against Tebow, and a QB scramble who apparently couldnt run well.

Some were nice plays, he used his hands well and finished. I give him plenty of credit for that.

But you also have to look at the competition. Who was he playing against? Backup OL for the Bears and Jets? Two of the teams with the worst OTs in the league, and he was picking on their backups?

What you dont understand is how a player played in college or looked during the combine is irreverent. Its about how you look now on the field, in the NFL. Thats whats important.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:51 PM
bring the jack!

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQjV0Hc7xRSuqeFn4JtiZrqa5J11e5N6 KR_3uxAKzvJQMwL2Cth

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 09:53 PM
[QUOTE=jomo;658839]We've got one guy on the slide and one guy on the rise[QUOTE]
see this I disagree with.
To say Osi is on the decline would he not need to get more signifigant snaps than he has had in the past couple years? it s been what 1-2 years Osi has been a Situational guy? I think If he starts when the fixes i've mentioned he can bounce back. IMHO
To say Ojomo is on the rise, he would have to beat out a hobbled Tuck and a as you all like to say a declining malcontent Osi and get some signifigant reps as a rotational guy during the regular season. Pre-seasons is nice I get it, but even the jury wasn't completely out on cruz until that eagles game, remember he was dropping balls left and right coming back from that injury where all we had was a phenominal pre season preformance? then he shined. wanna wait till Ojomo lights up RG3/Romo/foles/Vick before we annoint him on the rise.


Oh Jomo.....

Will be Ah Jomo lol I couldn't resist, sorry

jomo
01-10-2013, 09:58 PM
[QUOTE=jomo;658839]We've got one guy on the slide and one guy on the rise[QUOTE]
see this I disagree with.
To say Osi is on the decline would he not need to get more signifigant snaps than he has had in the past couple years? it s been what 1-2 years Osi has been a Situational guy? I think If he starts when the fixes i've mentioned he can bounce back. IMHO
To say Ojomo is on the rise, he would have to beat out a hobbled Tuck and a as you all like to say a declining malcontent Osi and get some signifigant reps as a rotational guy during the regular season. Pre-seasons is nice I get it, but even the jury wasn't completely out on cruz until that eagles game, remember he was dropping balls left and right coming back from that injury where all we had was a phenominal pre season preformance? then he shined. wanna wait till Ojomo lights up RG3/Romo/foles/Vick before we annoint him on the rise.


Oh Jomo.....I would agree with you on this, saying Ojomo is on the rise is overstating it. He is actually starting from nowhere and can only go up or sideways but not down.

RoanokeFan
01-10-2013, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=rainierjef;658851][QUOTE=jomo;658839]We've got one guy on the slide and one guy on the riseI would agree with you on this, saying Ojomo is on the rise is overstating it. He is actually starting from nowhere and can only go up or sideways but not down.

Don't you love when a plan comes together?

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 10:08 PM
Exactly, so replacing Osi would mean Ojomo can do what? Be on the downside of his career and getting huge cap space?

Or does "replacing Osi" mean finding a new all-pro pass rusher?


Im not asking for them to keep Osi, I just take issue with asking if the undrafted guy is going to replace one of the giants best pass rushers.So he wanted to know if Ojomo could be a pass rusher that doesnt get to the QB than yes Ojomo can do that.
I just assumed we were trying to find a guy like Osi at his peak not osi at his worst why the hell would we want that.

rainierjef
01-10-2013, 10:16 PM
So he wanted to know if Ojomo could be a pass rusher that doesnt get to the QB than yes Ojomo can do that.
I just assumed we were trying to find a guy like Osi at his peak not osi at his worst why the hell would we want that.

Osi can get back to some of his prime, just need a different way to utilize him than just poorly planned situational stuff. " lets put out the nascar package, like their opposing QB wouldn't know we are trying to stop the pass."
I think Ojomo can contribute ona good level just not to the expectation that most put before him.

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 10:24 PM
Or not impressed with their ENTIRE COLLEGE CAREER?

It's not like he's from some small name school and never got an opportunity.

He was undrafted for a reason. He was simply a very average player. I saw nothing special physically from him in preseason. He did a good job with technique.


And it's not like he is Cruz who was an unrefined player who is physically gifted.Cruz is an explosive athlete Ojomo isnt pretty easy to see just from the eye

Redeyejedi
01-10-2013, 10:38 PM
I don't disagree, but I'm tired of watching the "All Pros" fail to produce. If Tracy and Ojomo are so bad, then sign a FA when the rat race begins Just because I dont think Ojomo is likely to become an All Pro DE doesnt mean I think he is bad. Giants dont have enough money to bring in the caliber player they need at DE.
Why all of a sudden does this board want to use 1st rounders on interior lineman and have guys off the street anchor the defense. This team won 2 Super Bowls recently because the quality of pass rushers and now it doesnt matter who we get to do that, it makes no sense.

Toadofsteel
01-10-2013, 11:03 PM
Just because I dont think Ojomo is likely to become an All Pro DE doesnt mean I think he is bad. Giants dont have enough money to bring in the caliber player they need at DE.
Why all of a sudden does this board want to use 1st rounders on interior lineman and have guys off the street anchor the defense. This team won 2 Super Bowls recently because the quality of pass rushers and now it doesnt matter who we get to do that, it makes no sense.

Because OC's figured out the counter to our defense: throw slants all day on our crappy secondary and it doesn't matter if you had JPP, Strahan, and LT rushing the passer together...

giantsfan420
01-10-2013, 11:47 PM
osi was getting more than enough snaps to make a difference and play well. he came in on virtually every pass rush opportunity. if anything, he was getting the kind of snaps that should have produced a sick stat line year. I fail to see how adding more snaps in run situations to osi would have helped him...or anyone. but i dont think he's finished as a player, and dont single him out for the DL problems last yr. if anything Osi needs another guy getting after the QB just like JPP does. no one seemed to be helping the others game out, and maybe thats a product of contract issues? tuck certainly wasnt helping on or off the field with a lot of his comments and play

and i think ojomo could be a good pass rusher. only issue, we have 2 DE's who really are most effective as situational pass rushers (Osi and now Tuck, he can play the run well but imo his body cant hold up trying to do both at a high level) in front of him. We really need a quality starter type addition imo, dunno if ojomos quite ready for that...

JB456
01-11-2013, 12:03 AM
Because the coaches, who know the players much better than we ever will, felt that a worn-down and ineffective Tuck was still better than Ojomo.

Nah. This is an old school coaching staff that values experience over youth. On top of that, I believe that they didn't want to get Tuck, Osi, or any other of the Vets annoyed about losing playing time to a rookie. I really think Ojomo will get an honest shot this year.

rainierjef
01-11-2013, 12:10 AM
osi was getting more than enough snaps to make a difference and play well. he came in on virtually every pass rush opportunity.
Are you basing this on how you feel or are you looking at the numbers? Osi is not a starter and hasn't been for a while now almost 2 and 1/2 season, Plus if you bring in a situational rusher like Osi on certain down and distances what do you think the opposing offense know about our approach to that play?
" hey! there's Osi, they are trying to speed rush the passer." kind of like when we were putting in David wilson they knew it was going to be a run cause we never trusted wilson to pass protect. it makes the defense easier to read.

but i dont think he's finished as a player, and dont single him out for the DL problems last yr. if anything Osi needs another guy getting after the QB just like JPP does. no one seemed to be helping the others game out, and maybe thats a product of contract issues? tuck certainly wasnt helping on or off the field with a lot of his comments and play

and i think ojomo could be a good pass rusher. only issue, we have 2 DE's who really are most effective as situational pass rushers (Osi and now Tuck, he can play the run well but imo his body cant hold up trying to do both at a high level) in front of him. We really need a quality starter type addition imo, dunno if ojomos quite ready for that...

It just boils down to do you want a player that can get you 4-6. 10 max FF's on a good year,
Or a guy that just below good at stopping the run, and average at getting to the QB due to injuries.

Redeyejedi
01-11-2013, 01:23 AM
osi was getting more than enough snaps to make a difference and play well. he came in on virtually every pass rush opportunity. if anything, he was getting the kind of snaps that should have produced a sick stat line year. I fail to see how adding more snaps in run situations to osi would have helped him...or anyone. but i dont think he's finished as a player, and dont single him out for the DL problems last yr. if anything Osi needs another guy getting after the QB just like JPP does. no one seemed to be helping the others game out, and maybe thats a product of contract issues? tuck certainly wasnt helping on or off the field with a lot of his comments and play

and i think ojomo could be a good pass rusher. only issue, we have 2 DE's who really are most effective as situational pass rushers (Osi and now Tuck, he can play the run well but imo his body cant hold up trying to do both at a high level) in front of him. We really need a quality starter type addition imo, dunno if ojomos quite ready for that...Tuck is not a situational pass rusher he is 1 of the worst DE's in the NFL at getting to the QB

Redeyejedi
01-11-2013, 01:24 AM
Because OC's figured out the counter to our defense: throw slants all day on our crappy secondary and it doesn't matter if you had JPP, Strahan, and LT rushing the passer together... Thats complete BS Giants had plenty of opportunities to get home and they couldnt do it ,lots of excuses. Rewatch the games they werent winning 1 on 1's especially Tuck

giantsfan420
01-11-2013, 01:43 AM
Tuck is not a situational pass rusher he is 1 of the worst DE's in the NFL at getting to the QBthe past 2 yrs, yes. and the past 2 yrs hes been run down. last game of the season vs philly, tuck was used as a situational pass rusher. and he had by far his best game of the season. i just dont think his body/mind can hold up trying to be great vs both the run and the pass imo. use him like we did vs philly and he'll have a much better reg. season, and maybe could go back to starter for the playoffs. tuck was a 10 sack a season when healthy guy by my standards before 2011...just lighten his load and i bet he does better.

BigJ
01-11-2013, 02:25 AM
And Osi was an all-pro DE...

If the thread is just asking "who can replace Osi at his worst" then it's sort of pointless.

Who would want to replace bad play with more bad play? u guys are both wrong fighting about nothing. Osi is NOT an all pro dend. But even when he wasnt playing that well Ojomo is still not good enough to replace him.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-11-2013, 03:24 AM
y we sat him the entire season i will never knowBecause he's a rookie and Coughlin won't play rookies.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 03:47 AM
Because he's a rookie and Coughlin won't play rookies.

that kind of thinking must stop,,you line up your best horses,,rookies or not. this team has some work to do. a second half is not acceptable next season. I am expecting them to be in the 11-5 range.

M00KIE
01-11-2013, 07:01 AM
Because he's a rookie and Coughlin won't play rookies.

Yeah...that...oooor he's the 5th DE on out depth chart... 6th if you count Kiwi (which obviously, you should).

TCHOF
01-11-2013, 07:32 AM
Just because I dont think Ojomo is likely to become an All Pro DE doesnt mean I think he is bad. Giants dont have enough money to bring in the caliber player they need at DE.
Why all of a sudden does this board want to use 1st rounders on interior lineman and have guys off the street anchor the defense. This team won 2 Super Bowls recently because the quality of pass rushers and now it doesnt matter who we get to do that, it makes no sense.

+1

TooStupid
01-11-2013, 07:43 AM
Yeah this is my point. Osi's attitude has been resolved by both parties but fans feel a need to hold onto that. when I look at this situation, i want the person that has the best chance of getting us the ball back on defense and thats Osi.
Retain Osi
Release Tuck
Get a Top flight DT and DE in rounds 1-3
and Find a side line to side line thumper at SAM, if your worried about Osi versus the run
Start Osi rotating in the 1st round DE and Ojomo.

Did you watch Osi play at all this year? HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE RUN!!!!! He spent more time watching rbs pass him then he tackled. He runs himself out of 90% of every passing down. You are willing to trade a few strips for a solid run stopping DE. MS reputation was as a pass rusher but more so as a run stuffer. People did not run at him. I would run at Osi all day long. That guy is not worth a practice squad spot.