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TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 09:00 AM
Base Salary
S. Bonus
Misc. Bonus
Cap Hit


2009
7,500,000
3,100,000
3,100,000
13,700,000


2010
6,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
12,100,000


2011
8,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
14,100,000


2012
1,750,000
2,600,000
5,250,000
9,600,000


2013
13,000,000
2,600,000
5,250,000
20,850,000


2014
15,150,000
-
5,250,000
20,400,000


2015
17,000,000
-
2,750,000
19,750,000


2016
UFA



http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning/

---

Major adjustments are needed if this team plans on doing anything in the next couple of seasons.

ryan12
01-11-2013, 09:01 AM
WTF WOW

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:02 AM
Base Salary
S. Bonus
Misc. Bonus
Cap Hit


2009
7,500,000
3,100,000
3,100,000
13,700,000


2010
6,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
12,100,000


2011
8,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
14,100,000


2012
1,750,000
2,600,000
5,250,000
9,600,000


2013
13,000,000
2,600,000
5,250,000
20,850,000


2014
15,150,000
-
5,250,000
20,400,000


2015
17,000,000
-
2,750,000
19,750,000


2016
UFA




http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning/

---

Major adjustments are needed if this team plans on doing anything in the next couple of seasons.

He restructured last season freeing up close to $7M

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 09:04 AM
He restructured last season freeing up close to $7M

Yeah, and pushing it to the last 3 years of his contract... 2013,2014 and 2015. He needs to take a paycut. Sorry, but it is true. He got us rings, but his salary is so inflated it will cripple this team for the next 3 years.

Red Dog
01-11-2013, 09:05 AM
WOW or OW Tim Tebow may be available on the cheap

Jahh
01-11-2013, 09:07 AM
Can't they give him some sort of extension to spread some of that restructured money out?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:07 AM
Yeah, and pushing it to the last 3 years of his contract... 2013,2014 and 2015. He needs to take a paycut. Sorry, but it is true. He got us rings, but his salary is so inflated it will cripple this team for the next 3 years.

Good luck with that. I don't disagree, believing most of the salaries are obscene. But he entered into a contract with the Giants and, unless they're prepared to release him, we are stuck with it. And even if they released him, he would get whatever guaranteed money is still to come.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:07 AM
Can't they give him some sort of extension to spread some of that restructured money out?

An extension would simply add more money to the already inflated situation.

Jahh
01-11-2013, 09:12 AM
An extension would simply add more money to the already inflated situation.

I guess depending on the added amount of money that's in the new years.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 09:13 AM
Good luck with that. I don't disagree, believing most of the salaries are obscene. But he entered into a contract with the Giants and, unless they're prepared to release him, we are stuck with it. And even if they released him, he would get whatever guaranteed money is still to come.

How much do you think other teams would value Eli at? I doubt any would be willing to take on $20M a season for him, but I could be wrong. Maybe a team like Arizona or KC would do it.

I truely think we need to look at a capable backup QB in the draft. 1st, to give Eli some push and motivation to actually play well knowing he has a youngster breathing down his neck. 2nd, incase Eli gets hurt because David Carr is horrible and wouldn;t win us a game. and 3rd, to build for the future. If Eli is 3 years away from the end of his contract, could we head another way in 3years? Lets get someone under him to learn from him.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:19 AM
I guess depending on the added amount of money that's in the new years.

I can't imagine them extending a contract that still has three years left before FA. Eli could play lights out for three years or not. Extending him now does not favor the team.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:20 AM
How much do you think other teams would value Eli at? I doubt any would be willing to take on $20M a season for him, but I could be wrong. Maybe a team like Arizona or KC would do it.

I truely think we need to look at a capable backup QB in the draft. 1st, to give Eli some push and motivation to actually play well knowing he has a youngster breathing down his neck. 2nd, incase Eli gets hurt because David Carr is horrible and wouldn;t win us a game. and 3rd, to build for the future. If Eli is 3 years away from the end of his contract, could we head another way in 3years? Lets get someone under him to learn from him.

Find a team desperate for a QB who's already won 2 Super Bowls? Shouldn't be too hard.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 09:31 AM
Here's the highest paid this season:

http://www.businessinsider.com/the-25-highest-paid-players-in-the-nfl-2012-9?op=1

Vick at 9 for almost $14 mil and Rivers at 6 for a little over $15 mil, both with no Super Bowls.

Buddy333
01-11-2013, 09:34 AM
Well he's not taking a pay cut so we better hope he does play like a top 5 QB next year.

JayMas9
01-11-2013, 09:34 AM
How much do you think other teams would value Eli at? I doubt any would be willing to take on $20M a season for him, but I could be wrong. Maybe a team like Arizona or KC would do it.

I truely think we need to look at a capable backup QB in the draft. 1st, to give Eli some push and motivation to actually play well knowing he has a youngster breathing down his neck. 2nd, incase Eli gets hurt because David Carr is horrible and wouldn;t win us a game. and 3rd, to build for the future. If Eli is 3 years away from the end of his contract, could we head another way in 3years? Lets get someone under him to learn from him.I really, really hope your not serious.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 09:37 AM
People want to win Super Bowls and not pay while other teams have been paying more obscene money to other players while not winning one.

EliDaMANning
01-11-2013, 09:37 AM
I really, really hope your not serious.I think he is, whic is incredible.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:38 AM
Well he's not taking a pay cut so we better hope he does play like a top 5 QB next year.

I think Eli won't let us down.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:40 AM
I think he is, whic is incredible.

It's the annual freak out about the CAP. Not to worry.

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 09:52 AM
Yeah, and pushing it to the last 3 years of his contract... 2013,2014 and 2015. He needs to take a paycut. Sorry, but it is true. He got us rings, but his salary is so inflated it will cripple this team for the next 3 years.
This is all Reese's doing, Eli doesn't need to do a thing.

If Eli's salary is inflated this season, then it was deflated during the 2011 SB season. You judge a contract's worth as a whole, not year to year.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 09:57 AM
This is all Reese's doing, Eli doesn't need to do a thing.

If Eli's salary is inflated this season, then it was deflated during the 2011 SB season. You judge a contract's worth as a whole, not year to year.

And Reese will handle the CAP as best he can.

SweetZombieJesus
01-11-2013, 10:38 AM
Yeah, and pushing it to the last 3 years of his contract... 2013,2014 and 2015. He needs to take a paycut. Sorry, but it is true. He got us rings, but his salary is so inflated it will cripple this team for the next 3 years.

Losing him will also cripple the team.

slipknottin
01-11-2013, 10:41 AM
As I've been saying. An extension would clear cap space.

Convert his base to a signing bonus and spread it through an additional couple years.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 10:50 AM
As I've been saying. An extension would clear cap space.

Convert his base to a signing bonus and spread it through an additional couple years.

But you still have to pay him a salary for those extended years. Eli is not going to agree to spreading his existing negotiated contract over more years for the same original contract amount. Suppose he's hit his prime and starts to decline?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 10:51 AM
Losing him will also cripple the team.

I don't see any scenario where Eli departs before his current contract is up

Roosevelt
01-11-2013, 10:52 AM
He restructured last season freeing up close to $7M

So if I'm reading you correctly RF, he was entitled to give us $7 million less in performance value?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 10:58 AM
So if I'm reading you correctly RF, he was entitled to give us $7 million less in performance value?

I'm only talking about his contract. I'm not trying to link it to his performance. Eli didn't "lose" $7M

Harooni
01-11-2013, 11:18 AM
This is all Reese's doing, Eli doesn't need to do a thing.

If Eli's salary is inflated this season, then it was deflated during the 2011 SB season. You judge a contract's worth as a whole, not year to year. i agree , he really makes an avg of 15mill a season.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 11:22 AM
i agree , he really makes an avg of 15mill a season.

Eli's contract is what it is. We have to live with it and work around it.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 11:31 AM
Eli's contract is what it is. We have to live with it and work around it. yep cant do much about it. $15 sure is aq big chunk. i think he should have got 100mill 10 years like big ben. 10mill a season is more than fair. but what can we do

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 11:34 AM
yep cant do much about it. $15 sure is aq big chunk. i think he should have got 100mill 10 years like big ben. 10mill a season is more than fair. but what can we do

It is all of that. Eli was seen as the franchise and they wanted to put him under wraps. We always talk about what the team wants/does but rarely acknowledge there is an agent (and Archie) pulling strings on the other side.

GameTime
01-11-2013, 11:41 AM
Yeah, and pushing it to the last 3 years of his contract... 2013,2014 and 2015. He needs to take a paycut. Sorry, but it is true. He got us rings, but his salary is so inflated it will cripple this team for the next 3 years.
he wont take a pay cut and shouldnt either...
the Giants made the deal now they have to figure things out....

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 11:48 AM
he wont take a pay cut and shouldnt either...
the Giants made the deal now they have to figure things out....

Hey there. You are absolutely right. They can massge it as best they can, but, in the end, as Harooni says, it is what it is.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 11:49 AM
Super Bowl MVPs don't come cheap...and I bet no one will trade those two Super Bowls for any Giants money. It's this "what have you done for me lately?" that's the issue. Some fans seem to be suffering from short-term memory or selective amnesia.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 11:50 AM
So if I'm reading you correctly RF, he was entitled to give us $7 million less in performance value?

Guess we are entitled to a 20million dollar performance next year, I look forward to it

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 11:53 AM
Super Bowl MVPs don't come cheap...and I bet no one will trade those two Super Bowls for any Giants money. It's this "what have you done for me lately?" that's the issue. Some fans seem to be suffering from short-term memory or selective amnesia.

It doesn't matter, he's under contract and he's entitled to get every dime.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 11:54 AM
Guess we are entitled to a 20million dollar performance next year, I look forward to it

Was he underpaid in the years we won the Super Bowl?

Harooni
01-11-2013, 12:08 PM
fans get confused , he didnt make less during 2011 season and he isnt making more this season, its the cap number (number that takes up cap space) Eli did and always got his $$$$

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 12:16 PM
fans get confused , he didnt make less during 2011 season and he isnt making more this season, its the cap number (number that takes up cap space) Eli did and always got his $$$$

Deservedly so. As I said, I doubt anyone wants to trade those 2 Super Bowls, so you got the 2 Super Bowls for your money.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 12:16 PM
Was he underpaid in the years we won the Super Bowl?

Cmon Ro I'm just joking around!

Harooni
01-11-2013, 12:20 PM
Deservedly so. As I said, I doubt anyone wants to trade those 2 Super Bowls, so you got the 2 Super Bowls for your money. true it does redeem the cost

one could argue did we need a $15mill qb to score under 20 points each superbowl. i think a game manager and good running game would do it.

CDN_G-FAN
01-11-2013, 12:23 PM
It doesn't matter, he's under contract and he's entitled to get every dime.

+1

the least of our problems is that we have a 2 time SB MVP QB who we're paying $20 mill a season.

regardless of how he played this year, there's no way in hell we win that SB without him. so for people suggesting that Eli somehow isn't worth what he's getting paid is completely insane. there's a whole bunch of $15-20 mill QBs in the NFL, and we're lucky to have one of them.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 12:29 PM
true it does redeem the cost

one could argue did we need a $15mill qb to score under 20 points each superbowl. i think a game manager and good running game would do it.

I doubt the Giants will even be close enough to sniff the Super Bowl if you have a game manager in the first place. Eli had ridiculous post-season numbers on his two runs to the Super Bowl. He earned it. Or you can have Mark Sanchez's contract instead:

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7668318/new-york-jets-extend-mark-sanchez-deal-end-pursuit-peyton-manning

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 12:32 PM
fans get confused , he didnt make less during 2011 season and he isnt making more this season, its the cap number (number that takes up cap space) Eli did and always got his $$$$

It's confusing how it's paid out, but you're right.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 12:34 PM
true it does redeem the cost

one could argue did we need a $15mill qb to score under 20 points each superbowl. i think a game manager and good running game would do it.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR27WvA0x47W5D05Nowye6c6tCraZqLu ubLnaN2xFvCNgm6Y49Q

Delicreep
01-11-2013, 12:59 PM
fans get confused , he didnt make less during 2011 season and he isnt making more this season, its the cap number (number that takes up cap space) Eli did and always got his $$$$

It's not just Eli; the labor agreement prevents a players contract from just being erased.

If you renegotiate within the term of the original agreement, this is what happens.
If you extend, then the old money must go with the new contract with new money added.
If you cut him, them guaranteed money still counts.

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 01:45 PM
yep cant do much about it. $15 sure is aq big chunk. i think he should have got 100mill 10 years like big ben. 10mill a season is more than fair. but what can we do

Ben resigned for 8 years 102mil in 2008 loaded with "dont be stupid and ride without a helmet" type clauses laced throughout.

Not bad for a quarterback who can end the team's season all by himself.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 02:11 PM
I really, really hope your not serious.

About drafting a QB? Absolutely. Why not have a capable QB behind Eli? He is 32 and only getting older. He took a ton of shots this year. He wont last forever. If he goes down, we dont want a "Colts" type situation where we have nothing and no chance. Although it worked out for them the following year.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 02:13 PM
Losing him will also cripple the team.

Never said we should cut him. I was just wondering if another team would out pay us ($20.85M) for him. Just an open question. Obvisouly he is our QB for at least 3 more years.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 02:14 PM
About drafting a QB? Absolutely. Why not have a capable QB behind Eli? He is 32 and only getting older. He took a ton of shots this year. He wont last forever. If he goes down, we dont want a "Colts" type situation where we have nothing and no chance. Although it worked out for them the following year.

Where will be find a quality QB who is willing to sit behind Eli for 3 - 5 years?

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 02:17 PM
Where will be find a quality QB who is willing to sit behind Eli for 3 - 5 years?

The draft? Look what the Packers did with Rodgers and Favre.

You think the Giants extend his current contract another 2 years?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 02:23 PM
The draft? Look what the Packers did with Rodgers and Favre.

Unfortunately that's not the norm.

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 02:23 PM
The draft? Look what the Packers did with Rodgers and Favre.

You think the Giants extend his current contract another 2 years?

It wasnt the Packs intent for Rodgers to sit that long.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 02:25 PM
The draft? Look what the Packers did with Rodgers and Favre.

You think the Giants extend his current contract another 2 years?

He doesn't become a FA until 2016. It will depend on how well he's playing. Whatever else we think about Eli, he is durable.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 02:28 PM
It wasnt the Packs intent for Rodgers to sit that long.

Maybe not, but it happened. Pack also used a 1st round pick which we would not, but a later pick, why not? What about Kaepernick and Alex Smith, Tom Brady and Bledsoe,

Wouldnt it be nice to get a QB in the 3rd or 4th round and mold him behind Eli for a few years. Develop him.

Thats all Im saying.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 02:29 PM
Maybe not, but it happened. Pack also used a 1st round pick which we would not, but a later pick, why not? What about Kaepernick and Alex Smith, Russell Wilson and Flynn, Tom Brady and Bledsoe,

Wouldnt it be nice to get a QB in the 3rd or 4th round and mold him behind Eli for a few years. Develop him.

Thats all Im saying.

And how does Eli react to that?

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 02:31 PM
And how does Eli react to that?

Hopefully it would motivate him. I mean, if Eli played at an elite level for the next 3 years and we do extend him a bit more, then we could trade that drafted QB for a good draft pick. Good teams do this all the time. Packers trading Flynn, Pats trading Cassel, Eagles trading Kolb,

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 02:37 PM
Maybe not, but it happened. Pack also used a 1st round pick which we would not, but a later pick, why not? What about Kaepernick and Alex Smith, Tom Brady and Bledsoe,

Wouldnt it be nice to get a QB in the 3rd or 4th round and mold him behind Eli for a few years. Develop him.

Thats all Im saying.

With Alex's Smith's history was anyone surprised a QB was picked up?

Brady/Bledsoe? Sure lets pick up a *6th rounder and hope for the best, we may get lucky too.


Not saying eventually it wouldnt happen, but i think its at least 2 maybe 3 years away from being considered.

*edit - thought it was 7th

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 02:39 PM
Hopefully it would motivate him. I mean, if Eli played at an elite level for the next 3 years and we do extend him a bit more, then we could trade that drafted QB for a good draft pick. Good teams do this all the time. Packers trading Flynn, Pats trading Cassel, Eagles trading Kolb,

A 3rd round or 4th round pick will motivate Eli? Unless he goes down for a long stretch of games, I doubt Eli will be threatened with his job security in the next 3 years. Plus I think he's motivated enough. You don't win Super Bowls if you're not motivated. Sometimes you just fall short, just like any other 31 teams that will not win it every year.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 02:54 PM
A 3rd round or 4th round pick will motivate Eli? Unless he goes down for a long stretch of games, I doubt Eli will be threatened with his job security in the next 3 years. Plus I think he's motivated enough. You don't win Super Bowls if you're not motivated. Sometimes you just fall short, just like any other 31 teams that will not win it every year.

Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, ect... recent picks rounds 2-4 that would def put some heat on Eli. Not that he needs motivation, maybe I stated that wrong, but someone behind him that gives us a shot to win if he goes down.

And I never said a draft pick would take Eli's starting job as long as he is here. Eli is the man right now. But 20+Mil is quite expesive and will cripple the team the next few years. Cruz or Nicks will be gone. Cant keep both. Phillips may be gone. We need to resign JPP soon. And Joseph.

We are always floating around that point where we can't get a FA becaus we need to be tight. It wont be any differet this season. Reese will hopefully produce a talented team for less.

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 02:58 PM
It is a bit strange how this team has so far refused to draft another quarterback; it's common practice around the league. He doesn't have to be brought in to push the starter, he could just provide a cheaper alternative to signing a vet.

David Carr
Jim Sorgi
Anthony Wright
Tim Hasselbeck
Jared Lorenzen

All signed as free agents.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 03:07 PM
Russell Wilson, Kirk Cousins, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, ect... recent picks rounds 2-4 that would def put some heat on Eli. Not that he needs motivation, maybe I stated that wrong, but someone behind him that gives us a shot to win if he goes down.

And I never said a draft pick would take Eli's starting job as long as he is here. Eli is the man right now. But 20+Mil is quite expesive and will cripple the team the next few years. Cruz or Nicks will be gone. Cant keep both. Phillips may be gone. We need to resign JPP soon. And Joseph.

We are always floating around that point where we can't get a FA becaus we need to be tight. It wont be any differet this season. Reese will hopefully produce a talented team for less.

Well I just question the motivation part, plus the effectiveness of having a backup QB putting a heat on Eli at this point in time. If we are talking about having a legit QB that can take over him when he seriously goes down, that's another matter.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 03:17 PM
It is a bit strange how this team has so far refused to draft another quarterback; it's common practice around the league. He doesn't have to be brought in to push the starter, he could just provide a cheaper alternative to signing a vet.

David Carr
Jim Sorgi
Anthony Wright
Tim Hasselbeck
Jared Lorenzen

All signed as free agents.

Well, we draft Rhett Bomar in the 5th in 2009, Andre Woodson in the 6th in 2008... But other then that, nothing.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 03:19 PM
Hopefully it would motivate him. I mean, if Eli played at an elite level for the next 3 years and we do extend him a bit more, then we could trade that drafted QB for a good draft pick. Good teams do this all the time. Packers trading Flynn, Pats trading Cassel, Eagles trading Kolb,

You may be right, but I don't see a back up QB jumping to the front of the line this draft cycle

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 03:23 PM
Well, we draft Rhett Bomar in the 5th in 2009, Andre Woodson in the 6th in 2008... But other then that, nothing.
Ah, true. I forgot about those guys.

Cloud57
01-11-2013, 03:27 PM
Cut Eli, Draft a QB

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 03:29 PM
I know you're joking, but cutting Eli would put the team in a $60 million dollar hole, hah

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 03:31 PM
Ah, true. I forgot about those guys.

so did everyone else.

I think if Ryan Nassib makes it to th 4th round this year, I wouldnt mind taking a shot. We should get a comp pick right? Maybe 4ish?

Then we could let Carr go and save some money that way.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 03:31 PM
Well, we draft Rhett Bomar in the 5th in 2009, Andre Woodson in the 6th in 2008... But other then that, nothing.

So where are they now? If not with the Giants, seems like a wasted pick to me. So yeah, you have David Carr as a backup and hope Eli Manning never misses a game. Plus we have other needs than QB, and that's what they tried to address in the last draft. We lost some people from free agency and such. Too early to think about replacing Eli right now, he's only 32.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 03:46 PM
So where are they now? If not with the Giants, seems like a wasted pick to me. So yeah, you have David Carr as a backup and hope Eli Manning never misses a game. Plus we have other needs than QB, and that's what they tried to address in the last draft. We lost some people from free agency and such. Too early to think about replacing Eli right now, he's only 32.

Only? I understand he is tough and never missed a game, but eventually the time comes and 32 is old in this league. And I would like a feasable QB to replace him and have a year or 2 of backup behind Eli to learn from the master. Yes, those QBs were wasted picks in the 5th and 6th rounds, but so was Sintim (2nd), Moss (2nd), Beckum (3rd), Barden (3rd), Kehl (4th), Mosely (4th), ect.... We swing and miss all the time on every position.

Roosevelt
01-11-2013, 03:49 PM
I'm only talking about his contract. I'm not trying to link it to his performance. Eli didn't "lose" $7M

I know. That's where I come in. lol.

Roosevelt
01-11-2013, 03:50 PM
Guess we are entitled to a 20million dollar performance next year, I look forward to it

Exactly. We're in for something special.

TheAnalyst
01-11-2013, 03:56 PM
Someone needs to call out Eli's eliteness again this offseason.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 03:57 PM
Only? I understand he is tough and never missed a game, but eventually the time comes and 32 is old in this league. And I would like a feasable QB to replace him and have a year or 2 of backup behind Eli to learn from the master. Yes, those QBs were wasted picks in the 5th and 6th rounds, but so was Sintim (2nd), Moss (2nd), Beckum (3rd), Barden (3rd), Kehl (4th), Mosely (4th), ect.... We swing and miss all the time on every position.

Usually franchise QB comes from a high pick, and usually a lower pick QB ends up being a bench warmer unless the starting QB goes down and you get an opportunity, like Brady. Eli himself was a number one pick, so I am doubtful you'll find a future starting QB deep in the draft pick or even find out that QB's potential if he won't get an opportunity.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 03:59 PM
I just hope Reese does not restructure again. eli;s cap hit for 2015 could be 50mill lol

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:01 PM
I know. That's where I come in. lol.

LMAO, you snuck up on me

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:04 PM
I just hope Reese does not restructure again. eli;s cap hit for 2015 could be 50mill lol

You can only go to the same well so many times. I think the only reasonable expectation is that some veterans are released.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 04:08 PM
You can only go to the same well so many times. I think the only reasonable expectation is that some veterans are released.
sometimes its hard but Reese has to pull the trigger. seems like they fall in love with everyone and try to hang on till the guy can't move. Do not be afraid to let a guy go if his cap space is too high. in some cases we can sign 3 FA's in place of that one guys salary.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:09 PM
Someone needs to call out Eli's eliteness again this offseason.

No problem there, just wait for the first bad pass

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:10 PM
sometimes its hard but Reese has to pull the trigger. seems like they fall in love with everyone and try to hang on till the guy can't move. Do not be afraid to let a guy go if his cap space is too high. in some cases we can sign 3 FA's in place of that one guys salary.

Restructuring, as you've pointed out, only kicks the can down the road.

radar-ray
01-11-2013, 04:14 PM
No problem there, just wait for the first bad pass Isn't that the truth!

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 04:23 PM
Only? I understand he is tough and never missed a game, but eventually the time comes and 32 is old in this league. And I would like a feasable QB to replace him and have a year or 2 of backup behind Eli to learn from the master. Yes, those QBs were wasted picks in the 5th and 6th rounds, but so was Sintim (2nd), Moss (2nd), Beckum (3rd), Barden (3rd), Kehl (4th), Mosely (4th), ect.... We swing and miss all the time on every position.

Not for a QB - RB, DE, LB... sure.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 04:28 PM
Not for a QB - RB, DE, LB... sure. 32 isnt young though you start to feel it trust me im 34 . big difference in my recovery time in the gym and playing sports.

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:30 PM
harooni you are not atheltic as eli manning and do not have the same architecture of the body as him so u can not know when eli will get injured or how eli keeps healthy

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:35 PM
harooni you are not atheltic as eli manning and do not have the same architecture of the body as him so u can not know when eli will get injured or how eli keeps healthy

Different packages?

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 04:36 PM
harooni you are not atheltic as eli manning and do not have the same architecture of the body as him so u can not know when eli will get injured or how eli keeps healthy

The whole entire time I thought harooni is a world class athlete. Guess I was wrong. :)

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 04:37 PM
harooni you are not atheltic as eli manning and do not have the same architecture of the body as him
Stalker alert.

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 04:38 PM
32 isnt young though you start to feel it trust me im 34 . big difference in my recovery time in the gym and playing sports.

pfffft... 38 here "junior"... and i know it, my knees sound like rice crispies walking up the stairs.

M00KIE
01-11-2013, 04:38 PM
Eli's contract is fine. It's some of the other parts that are overpaid. Webster, Canty, Rolle, Baas,etc...

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:38 PM
Yes you were wrong unfortunately usually harooni is the one that is wrong on these boards smh...
RF it has nothing to do with packages eli is just a considerbly better human in terms of atheltic structure than harooni

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:41 PM
Yes you were wrong unfortunately usually harooni is the one that is wrong on these boards smh...
RF it has nothing to do with packages eli is just a considerbly better human in terms of atheltic structure than harooni

Have you see Harooni in the gym?

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:42 PM
No I have not that is a bit creepy but we know that Harooni was abducted by aliens and thus is not mentally capable to be a strong human anymore.

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 04:44 PM
http://i.imgur.com/PrJae.jpg

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 04:44 PM
No I have not that is a bit creepy but we know that Harooni was abducted by aliens and thus is not mentally capable to be a strong human anymore.

Is having alien DNA considered a PED?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:46 PM
No I have not that is a bit creepy but we know that Harooni was abducted by aliens and thus is not mentally capable to be a strong human anymore.

But when the aliens were done with him, Harooni was pretty buff

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:49 PM
The mental probe will never let him amount to anything greater than the aliens and we all know aliens are slimy and gooey

keyofgmen
01-11-2013, 04:52 PM
I was going to contribute to this thread until I saw the last several posts! Now that was a highjack of a thread if I ever saw one. HAHA

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:53 PM
no hijack here just we are comparing eli to harooni and if harooni will ever be as strong as eli.. very valid discussion..

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 04:53 PM
I was going to contribute to this thread until I saw the last several posts! Now that was a highjack of a thread if I ever saw one. HAHA

waka waka!

BigBlueAllDay
01-11-2013, 05:13 PM
This is basically what happens when you restructure any player's contract. It's just kicking the cap hit down the road. Players do not lose money.

GameTime
01-11-2013, 05:34 PM
true it does redeem the cost

one could argue did we need a $15mill qb to score under 20 points each superbowl. i think a game manager and good running game would do it.

oh stop

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 06:47 PM
It is what it is but if eli is coming up to the big bucks of his contract now he better start playing like peyton

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 06:51 PM
It is what it is but if eli is coming up to the big bucks of his contract now he better start playing like peyton

what? his 2 superbowl wins and 2 superbowl MVP's already earned that money,,,by the way,,,as of now what's peyton's playoff win and superbowl win total? how many MVP's?

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 06:55 PM
what? his 2 superbowl wins and 2 superbowl MVP's already earned that money,,,by the way,,,as of now what's peyton's playoff win and superbowl win total? how many MVP's?

Dunno maybe 2 after this season is done we will see. I'm more of a what are you doing now person. If eli keeps playing like he did this past season he will not be earning his keep

sharick88
01-11-2013, 06:57 PM
Yeah, and pushing it to the last 3 years of his contract... 2013,2014 and 2015. He needs to take a paycut. Sorry, but it is true. He got us rings, but his salary is so inflated it will cripple this team for the next 3 years.

Why should he take a paycut? The giants are the ones that backloaded the contract. Time to pay the piper. If I were Eli, I would not give back one penny.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 06:59 PM
Dunno maybe 2 after this season is done we will see. I'm more of a what are you doing now person. If eli keeps playing like he did this past season he will not be earning his keep

I am really glad you are not the GM,,eli was a Superbowl MVP last year, WOW.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 07:03 PM
id love to work for some of you, boss can i get a raise i landed that big account 2 years ago. oh and i want total job security too

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 07:03 PM
I am really glad you are not the GM,,eli was a Superbowl MVP last year, WOW.

Is he gonna be this year? Next year? His regular season numbers need to get better to justify his high lvl of pay

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 07:04 PM
id love to work for some of you, boss can i get a raise i landed that big account 2 years ago. oh and i want total job security too

well harooni,,,i guess some of us aren't as smart as you.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 07:05 PM
well harooni,,,i guess some of us aren't as smart as you. i just dont have a famous last name.

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 07:06 PM
id love to work for some of you, boss can i get a raise i landed that big account 2 years ago. oh and i want total job security too

Depends if your position is performance based and the last thing you did was 2 year's ago why should I keep you now?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 07:07 PM
i just dont have a famous last name.

I was being sarcastic,,but I am sure you knew that.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 07:15 PM
id love to work for some of you, boss can i get a raise i landed that big account 2 years ago. oh and i want total job security too

You traded for the guy because you want to win a Super Bowl, he delivered two, so I'd say he more than did his job. And he was due his money because his contract was restructured. If your boss told you that you were owed a certain amount of salary after landing those two big accounts and then they decided to defer it to another year, would you not ask for that money the next year? They still owed you that money. If you are still the face of the company, and you are still the best chance to land a big account, then not giving you a job security is foolish.

Harooni
01-11-2013, 07:27 PM
You traded for the guy because you want to win a Super Bowl, he delivered two, so I'd say he more than did his job. And he was due his money because his contract was restructured. If your boss told you that you were owed a certain amount of salary after landing those two big accounts and then they decided to defer it to another year, would you not ask for that money the next year? They still owed you that money. If you are still the face of the company, and you are still the best chance to land a big account, then not giving you a job security is foolish. the thing is the QB gets sb credit but we all know the solid defense wins it. won it for peyton big b and rodgers. you have to have all pieces and a bit of luck.

i think marino is the best qb of all times.

Rudyy
01-11-2013, 07:30 PM
the thing is the QB gets sb credit but we all know the solid defense wins it. won it for peyton big b and rodgers. you have to have all pieces and a bit of luck.

i think marino is the best qb of all times.He still played well enough to get us to those 2 SB's.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 07:37 PM
the thing is the QB gets sb credit but we all know the solid defense wins it. won it for peyton big b and rodgers. you have to have all pieces and a bit of luck.

i think marino is the best qb of all times.

It's the whole team but you have to have faith in your QB, and Eli Manning had been clutch during the two post-season runs. If it was that easy, then ask Tony Romo or the other QBs in our division since Eli joined the team. How many won a Super Bowl, or even made it to the Super Bowl? Or ask why the Giants traded for him in the first place, because that position is the most important for the team and that's what always what the Giants was missing. Strahan and Toomer were playing for a long time and never won till Eli came along. The Giants won it all with a 9-7 record, which other team could make it happen without a legit QB?

Toadofsteel
01-11-2013, 07:58 PM
About drafting a QB? Absolutely. Why not have a capable QB behind Eli? He is 32 and only getting older. He took a ton of shots this year. He wont last forever. If he goes down, we dont want a "Colts" type situation where we have nothing and no chance. Although it worked out for them the following year.

The funny thing is we have Curtis Painter to a reserve/future contract now...

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 08:03 PM
The funny thing is we have Curtis Painter to a reserve/future contract now...
Poor Eli, still receiving hand-me-downs from his older brother...

brad
01-11-2013, 08:25 PM
It's the whole team but you have to have faith in your QB, and Eli Manning had been clutch during the two post-season runs. If it was that easy, then ask Tony Romo or the other QBs in our division since Eli joined the team. How many won a Super Bowl, or even made it to the Super Bowl? Or ask why the Giants traded for him in the first place, because that position is the most important for the team and that's what always what the Giants was missing. Strahan and Toomer were playing for a long time and never won till Eli came along. The Giants won it all with a 9-7 record, which other team could make it happen without a legit QB?

Conversely... what "legit QB" has done it without a supporting cast... like a decent O-line, WRs that can catch and maybe even a running game? The answer to that is none. Look at this year, many have said Eli had a rough year because the O-line and receivers, and he has won 2 SBs, so I assume he would be about as legit as they come... right? You can certainly name mediocre QBs that have won the SB, Hostetler and Dilfer come to mind.

If the conversation is the $20M cap hit... no QB is worth that hit because it means you can't provide the supporting cast to win, no matter how great that QB is. I seriously doubt they will allow that much to hit the cap this year for one player, regardless of how important he is to the team.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 08:35 PM
Conversely... what "legit QB" has done it without a supporting cast... like a decent O-line, WRs that can catch and maybe even a running game? The answer to that is none. Look at this year, many have said Eli had a rough year because the O-line and receivers, and he has won 2 SBs, so I assume he would be about as legit as they come... right? You can certainly name mediocre QBs that have won the SB, Hostetler and Dilfer come to mind.

If the conversation is the $20M cap hit... no QB is worth that hit because it means you can't provide the supporting cast to win, no matter how great that QB is. I seriously doubt they will allow that much to hit the cap this year for one player, regardless of how important he is to the team.

ELI MANNING, my friend! Here's his stats from profootball last season and please remember we were LAST in rushing last season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-8-eli-manning-qb-new-york-giants/

"Any time a season ends with a Super Bowl ring, it will always be remembered fondly, but Eli Manning had a truly remarkable season that deserves looking at in more detail.

The raw numbers are impressive in themselves: 4,933 yards, 29 touchdowns, 61% completion percentage, and a QB rating of 92.9 over the regular season, but what doesn’t show is the unique challenges that Eli had to face.

While the other passers in our Top 10 list saw no more than 147 total pressures last season, Eli Manning was subjected to a massive 220 in the same number of games. That’s well over four more per game, and matters only got worse in the playoffs. In the face of that, Manning managed to put up excellent numbers and his performances and grades only improved as the season went on, saving his best performance for the biggest game of them all–Super Bowl XLVI.

While most quarterbacks see their passer rating plummet in the face of pressure, Manning was still able to earn a QB rating of 81.2 when his throwing was disrupted and it’s those passes in particular that made the difference between a good season and a truly memorable one.

Making his performance even more remarkable was that the Giants were as aggressive as any team with their passing attack, aiming deep with determined regularity. Manning threw deep (20+ yards in the air) 20 times more than any other quarterback in the league, and remained near the top of the list in terms of accuracy on those passes. He threw for over 1,000 yards on go-routes alone last season as the Giants attacked the top of teams’ coverages.

In addition to all of these traits, Manning also proved to be exceptionally clutch, ranking second in the league in touchdowns on third*down with 13; showing that when his back was up against the wall, he was at his best. Other quarterbacks may have put up better numbers, but it is the way in which Eli Manning produced his and the factors working against him that makes his season stand out and catapults him into the Top 10 of our ranking."

brad
01-11-2013, 08:47 PM
ELI MANNING, my friend! Here's his stats from profootball last season and please remember we were LAST in rushing last season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/05/03/no-8-eli-manning-qb-new-york-giants/

"Any time a season ends with a Super Bowl ring, it will always be remembered fondly, but Eli Manning had a truly remarkable season that deserves looking at in more detail.

The raw numbers are impressive in themselves: 4,933 yards, 29 touchdowns, 61% completion percentage, and a QB rating of 92.9 over the regular season, but what doesn’t show is the unique challenges that Eli had to face.

While the other passers in our Top 10 list saw no more than 147 total pressures last season, Eli Manning was subjected to a massive 220 in the same number of games. That’s well over four more per game, and matters only got worse in the playoffs. In the face of that, Manning managed to put up excellent numbers and his performances and grades only improved as the season went on, saving his best performance for the biggest game of them all–Super Bowl XLVI.

While most quarterbacks see their passer rating plummet in the face of pressure, Manning was still able to earn a QB rating of 81.2 when his throwing was disrupted and it’s those passes in particular that made the difference between a good season and a truly memorable one.

Making his performance even more remarkable was that the Giants were as aggressive as any team with their passing attack, aiming deep with determined regularity. Manning threw deep (20+ yards in the air) 20 times more than any other quarterback in the league, and remained near the top of the list in terms of accuracy on those passes. He threw for over 1,000 yards on go-routes alone last season as the Giants attacked the top of teams’ coverages.

In addition to all of these traits, Manning also proved to be exceptionally clutch, ranking second in the league in touchdowns on third*down with 13; showing that when his back was up against the wall, he was at his best. Other quarterbacks may have put up better numbers, but it is the way in which Eli Manning produced his and the factors working against him that makes his season stand out and catapults him into the Top 10 of our ranking."

I fail to see how this has anything to do with what I said.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 08:53 PM
In case people are too lazy to click on that link, here are the other key stats from that link:

"Playing for the league title, Manning completed 75% of his passes, for 297 yards, a touchdown, and a QB rating of 103.9 on his way to a Super Bowl MVP award and a second ring in his career. In addition, the pressure that the Giants surrendered over the season didn’t magically evaporate in the Super Bowl, and he still dealt with it wonderfully. When blitzed, he completed every pass he attempted for a QB rating of 129.6, and when he was pressured–17 times in the game–he had a QB rating of 105.4; a ridiculous mark in the face of pressure.

What makes Manning’s season so special is that he did it in the face of more pressure than any other quarterback in football. In the regular season, the Giants’ offensive line allowed 15 more total pressures than any other unit in the NFL, and if you throw in the playoffs that number rockets up to 91. Eli had one of the best seasons in the league despite dealing with the single worst pass-blocking unit there was last year."

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 09:00 PM
I fail to see how this has anything to do with what I said.

You asked which legit QB will win it without an OL or a running game with a 9-7 record and I replied Eli Manning last season. The Giants had the worst rushing and "the single worst pass-blocking unit" last season and yet they still won the Super Bowl at 9-7. Unless I misinterpreted your question.

brad
01-11-2013, 09:06 PM
You asked which legit QB will win it without an OL or a running game with a 9-7 record and I replied Eli Manning last season. The Giants had the worst rushing and "the single worst pass-blocking unit" last season and yet they still won the Super Bowl at 9-7. Unless I misinterpreted your question.

Actually, what I said was what legit QB does it without a good supporting cast. In this case it was receivers playing lights out. Nicks and Cruz were an outstanding combination in the SB run, and even that wasn't good enough until the defense turned it on and did their best imitation of the 1990 defense. The point being that no one player does it all by himself... ever. If you prefer to believe that all you need is one guy while everyone else is a bunch of scrubs, well you pick your one guy and pair him up with the practice squad, it would certainly solve the salary cap issues.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 09:16 PM
Actually, what I said was what legit QB does it without a good supporting cast. In this case it was receivers playing lights out. Nicks and Cruz were an outstanding combination in the SB run, and even that wasn't good enough until the defense turned it on and did their best imitation of the 1990 defense. The point being that no one player does it all by himself... ever. If you prefer to believe that all you need is one guy while everyone else is a bunch of scrubs, well you pick your one guy and pair him up with the practice squad, it would certainly solve the salary cap issues.

Well, the oline and the rushing were not there, so it's Eli against the pressure to throw to his receivers last season and obviously the receivers have to make the plays or there's no way you're winning it by yourself. Just like what Giselle said, Tom Brady can't pass and also catch the ball. I was making a point regarding Eli's importance last season, you're just making up a ridiculous scenario about putting the practice squad to give a QB his due. The question is why were the Giants never got a number one pick by trade till Eli? Isn't it because they were always in the middle of the pack and could not get a higher pick? So the Giants had been always good esp in the defense and the running back with Tiki, but they never had the franchise QB until Eli. So they traded for him finally when they were bad and then he delivered with 2 Super Bowls.

brad
01-11-2013, 09:25 PM
Well, the oline and the rushing were not there, so it's Eli against the pressure to throw to his receivers last season and obviously the receivers have to make the plays or there's no way you're winning it by yourself. Just like what Giselle said, Tom Brady can't pass and also catch the ball. I was making a point regarding Eli's importance last season, you're just making up a ridiculous scenario about putting the practice squad to give a QB his due. The question is why were the Giants never got a number one pick till Eli? Isn't it because they were always in the middle of the pack and could not get a higher pick? So the Giants had been always good esp in the defense and the running back with Tiki, but they never had the franchise QB until Eli. So they traded for him finally when they were bad and then he delivered with 2 Super Bowls.

LOL, it was a dramatic scenario, the point I was trying to make was that no one player is the team, no matter how good they are. Yes, Eli had a great season last year, but that only proves my point more because this year the QB pressures and sacks went down and the running game improved, yet he played better last year than this one. Why? I am no guru, but I would guess it was because Nicks was hurt, a key part of his supporting cast. It also didn't help that the defense was worse this year than last, meaning in many games the offense wasn't on the field as much.

Your point is well made, Eli is clearly a critical component on the Giants offense... I am not questioning that. But at some price point, that critical component becomes so costly that you can't afford the other pieces that are required to make sure that he can perform. Is that price point $20M? More? Less? I have no idea... but I would suspect that $20M is too much of a cap hit to absorb and still be able to give him the other pieces he needs.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 09:28 PM
Well, I don't know how they will address that cap hit but he was owed that money.

brad
01-11-2013, 09:33 PM
Well, I don't know how they will address that cap hit but he was owed that money.

In the end... you are right, but I worry less about his salary than I do the team winning. Because I will still be rooting for the Giants when Eli and every other current player on this team has long since retired. It's about the team, not the individual players.

Drez
01-11-2013, 09:37 PM
I'm not bothering going through all the replies, but does something strike you as strange in that chart? Namely, that his base salary in 2012 was $1.75m? What does that tell you? Maybe the reason for the jump in cap hit is due to the fact that restructured his contract last season which jumped his cap hit over the final 3 years of his deal a few mil a year.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 09:39 PM
In the end... you are right, but I worry less about his salary than I do the team winning. Because I will still be rooting for the Giants when Eli and every other current player on this team has long since retired. It's about the team, not the individual players.

Then maybe the Giants can get as lucky as the Colts once he's gone, become bad and get a high pick. If not and they stay in the middle of the pack, then that would be a problem. An 8-8 or 9-7 record even if you get to the playoffs will not get you deep if you don't have a legit QB. Now we are full circle. :)

brad
01-11-2013, 09:50 PM
Then maybe the Giants can get as lucky as the Colts once he's gone, become bad and get a high pick. If not and they stay in the middle of the pack, then that would be a problem. An 8-8 or 9-7 record even if you get to the playoffs will not get you deep if you don't have a legit QB. Now we are full circle. :)

Or we could get a really good defense and sign the next Trent Dilfer

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 10:06 PM
Or we could get a really good defense and sign the next Trent Dilfer

Yeah, you will have to win 12 games though with that defense, so you really have to be an extremely good defense. That's the number of wins that Ravens team had. If you win 9-7 without a legit QB, then you are not that good of a defense to overcome the next Trent Dilfer.

JJC7301
01-12-2013, 12:38 AM
And THIS is a perfect example of why I HATE restructuring/back loading contracts like this. You're going to pay the piper eventually.

slipknottin
01-12-2013, 01:29 AM
But you still have to pay him a salary for those extended years. Eli is not going to agree to spreading his existing negotiated contract over more years for the same original contract amount. Suppose he's hit his prime and starts to decline?

This is actually not true. Base salary is mostly meaningless to a player. Eli could get cut tomorrow and get nothing.

A new contract would convert his base salary into a signing bonus which is guaranteed.

Drez
01-12-2013, 01:34 AM
And THIS is a perfect example of why I HATE restructuring/back loading contracts like this. You're going to pay the piper eventually.Yeah, but it was mostly money he was going to get anyway. The cap hit seems so meteoric because instead of being $16m or $17m in 2012 it was only just a hair under $10m.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 06:56 AM
This is actually not true. Base salary is mostly meaningless to a player. Eli could get cut tomorrow and get nothing.

A new contract would convert his base salary into a signing bonus which is guaranteed.

The chances of them releasing Eli or extending him for two or three years and not giving him one more dime seem pretty remote to me. I also think Reese would be cutting his professional throat to guarantee that kind of money for any player. He will figure it out.

bigblue58
01-12-2013, 10:02 AM
Base Salary
S. Bonus
Misc. Bonus
Cap Hit


2009
7,500,000
3,100,000
3,100,000
13,700,000


2010
6,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
12,100,000


2011
8,500,000
2,600,000
3,000,000
14,100,000


2012
1,750,000
2,600,000
5,250,000
9,600,000


2013
13,000,000
2,600,000
5,250,000
20,850,000


2014
15,150,000
-
5,250,000
20,400,000


2015
17,000,000
-
2,750,000
19,750,000


2016
UFA



http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/eli-manning/

---

Major adjustments are needed if this team plans on doing anything in the next couple of seasons.

Thats meaningless as the Giants will almost certainly ask him to restructure it to give them more cap space..... as they've done every season since he signed the deal.. Much ado about nothing.

slipknottin
01-12-2013, 10:06 AM
The chances of them releasing Eli or extending him for two or three years and not giving him one more dime seem pretty remote to me. I also think Reese would be cutting his professional throat to guarantee that kind of money for any player. He will figure it out.

But it would be adding actual money. Those are Eli's cap hit. His actual salary is far less because he took a lot of it up front and in restructures.

An extension would solve all those problems. Lower cap hit, add actual money for Eli, and keep him on the giants longer.

That's really the only option they have. Even if Eli said he would take less money that wouldn't lower the cap hit

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 10:12 AM
Thats meaningless as the Giants will almost certainly ask him to restructure it to give them more cap space..... as they've done every season since he signed the deal.. Much ado about nothing. Eli only restructured once on 2012 I believe.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 10:15 AM
But it would be adding actual money. Those are Eli's cap hit. His actual salary is far less because he took a lot of it up front and in restructures. An extension would solve all those problems. Lower cap hit, add actual money for Eli, and keep him on the giants longer. That's really the only option they have. Even if Eli said he would take less money that wouldn't lower the cap hit


I don't see how he'd agree to work two more years for the same amount of money but that's what I get for riding the short school bus all those years.


Some other team would gladly take on his contract and Peyton is proof you change teams and thrive.

slipknottin
01-12-2013, 10:28 AM
I don't see how he'd agree to work two more years for the same amount of money but that's what I get for riding the short school bus all those years.


Some other team would gladly take on his contract and Peyton is proof you change teams and thrive.

That's just it though. It's not the same amount of money.

It would be substantial amounts of new money.

The cap hit is way higher than his actual salary.

DarkSaint
01-12-2013, 10:35 AM
The Mann deferred his salary, look at the salary that's jumping from 1+ mil to 13+. That's where the increase in the cap comes from. How could you take money that should have been paid already from him. Lets say the company you work for is struggling and Your boss asks to tske 50% of your paycheck, 25% you get in a lump sum and then the other 25% will be added to your salary after year 5. Now in year 4 your coworkers dislike you and gang up to get you fired, or the company thinks they could get a cheaper replacement how would you feel about that 25% that you gave to help your company and now may not get it back. SMH if there is anyone to blame for this mess it is the giants mismanagement.

bigblue58
01-12-2013, 10:35 AM
I don't see how he'd agree to work two more years for the same amount of money but that's what I get for riding the short school bus all those years.


Some other team would gladly take on his contract and Peyton is proof you change teams and thrive.

And get who??? Eli's importance to this team, just in terms of how well he knows the very complicated Giants' playbook alone, cannot be overstated!
You can't just bring anybody in here and expect them to run the offense as well as Eli who had to systematically grow into running it.
What credible team would make their franchise QB a salary cap casualty?
And don't give me Peyton as an example..... The only reason the Colts cut him loose was because they never thought he would recover from those injuries and ever again be the same QB he had been!

slipknottin
01-12-2013, 10:43 AM
The Mann deferred his salary, look at the salary that's jumping from 1+ mil to 13+. That's where the increase in the cap comes from. How could you take money that should have been paid already from him. Lets say the company you work for is struggling and Your boss asks to tske 50% of your paycheck, 25% you get in a lump sum and then the other 25% will be added to your salary after year 5. Now in year 4 your coworkers dislike you and gang up to get you fired, or the company thinks they could get a cheaper replacement how would you feel about that 25% that you gave to help your company and now may not get it back. SMH if there is anyone to blame for this mess it is the giants mismanagement.

The giants didnt defer anything. Eli restructured. He got a large payment up front (signing bonus) last year, and the salary cap hit from that signing bonus is spread throughout the rest of his contract.

BigBlueAllDay
01-12-2013, 11:06 AM
The chances of them releasing Eli or extending him for two or three years and not giving him one more dime seem pretty remote to me. I also think Reese would be cutting his professional throat to guarantee that kind of money for any player. He will figure it out.
What happens if Eli suffers a horrific injury to his throwing arm next season? Do the Giants keep for two more years after without a throwing arm? Slip said it simple and best. Restructing is basically converting base salary, which is not guaranteed, to guaranteed money as a signing bonus to reduce the current year's cap hit as the guaranteed money is spread out over the rest of the years of the contract equally. A lot of NFL players simply will not see all the money in their contracts. Teams have the right to cut players and abruptly end their contracts at any time for any or no reason. That's why negotiations almost always stalls over guaranteed money that is paid upfront.

I could offer Antrelle Rolle a 2-year $300 million dollar contract, making him the "highest paid" safety in history and making headlines as well, but the contract is structured so the first year is a $5 million base salary with a $5 million guaranteed signing bonus. Then, the second year would be $290 million in base salary. Lol. Rolle and his agent will understand it is truly just a one-year deal. Player agents are not that stupid.

bigblue58
01-12-2013, 11:10 AM
Your first sentence is ridiculous because at any moment on any play, that scenario could happen to any top QB in the NFL! You don't make business decisions based on what might happen to a particular player. If you did, every player in the NFL would be signed to 16 game contracts that would have to be renewed every new season, and the Peyton Manning led Colts would still be playing today!

I said they would simply restructure his salary next season 15 posts back! Restructuring to deal with the cap is so common every year it's pointless to even discuss it.

The Giants will get under the cap, their problem is how to deal with 21 free agents!
The size of that number seems ridiculous to even my "not too savvy on the salary cap" eyes.
Better get familiar with the practice squad roster after the mass exodus of familiar names get jettisoned!!!!!

Captain Chaos
01-12-2013, 11:34 AM
Seems excessive, but the salaries seem excessive to me. Well JR get busy and figure this thing out; but from my perspective the next few years will not be pretty!

BigBlueAllDay
01-12-2013, 11:34 AM
Your first sentence is ridiculous because at any moment on any play, that scenario could happen to any top QB in the NFL! You don't make business decisions based on what might happen to a particular player. If you did, every player in the NFL would be signed to 16 game contracts that would have to be renewed every new season, and the Peyton Manning led Colts would still be playing today!

I said they would simply restructure his salary next season 15 posts back! Restructuring to deal with the cap is so common every year it's pointless to even discuss it.

The Giants will get under the cap, their problem is how to deal with 21 free agents!
The size of that number seems ridiculous to even my "not too savvy on the salary cap" eyes.
Better get familiar with the practice squad roster after the mass exodus of familiar names get jettisoned!!!!!

It's not ridiculous. It's just pointing out a possibility as you stated. You don't make business decision without thinking ahead either. lol If they did another contract restructure, then his cap hit will be bigger for next year and the rest of the years of his contract. It'll just get harder to impossible for the Giants to stay under the cap while keeping and signing good players if they keep restructuring with Eli, which he'll gladly do. The 52 other players on the TEAM also wants to get paid too. You're also omitting the fact that this discussion was created because of the fact that Eli's contract was restructured in the first place. It's not that simple. Otherwise, we'd all be GMs.

Also, 21 free agents is not a problem if you don't plan to re-sign them all. A majority do not want Osi back. I thinking the Giants only re-sign 4-5 at best and the rest will be testing out the FA market.

Harooni
01-12-2013, 12:25 PM
The Mann deferred his salary, look at the salary that's jumping from 1+ mil to 13+. That's where the increase in the cap comes from. How could you take money that should have been paid already from him. Lets say the company you work for is struggling and Your boss asks to tske 50% of your paycheck, 25% you get in a lump sum and then the other 25% will be added to your salary after year 5. Now in year 4 your coworkers dislike you and gang up to get you fired, or the company thinks they could get a cheaper replacement how would you feel about that 25% that you gave to help your company and now may not get it back. SMH if there is anyone to blame for this mess it is the giants mismanagement. huh?? lol he just got it in a signing bonus , no sacrifice . and he didnt get any less $$$.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 12:34 PM
What happens if Eli suffers a horrific injury to his throwing arm next season? Do the Giants keep for two more years after without a throwing arm? Slip said it simple and best. Restructing is basically converting base salary, which is not guaranteed, to guaranteed money as a signing bonus to reduce the current year's cap hit as the guaranteed money is spread out over the rest of the years of the contract equally. A lot of NFL players simply will not see all the money in their contracts. Teams have the right to cut players and abruptly end their contracts at any time for any or no reason. That's why negotiations almost always stalls over guaranteed money that is paid upfront.

I could offer Antrelle Rolle a 2-year $300 million dollar contract, making him the "highest paid" safety in history and making headlines as well, but the contract is structured so the first year is a $5 million base salary with a $5 million guaranteed signing bonus. Then, the second year would be $290 million in base salary. Lol. Rolle and his agent will understand it is truly just a one-year deal. Player agents are not that stupid.



Your first sentence is why they won't make his entire contract guaranteed.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 12:35 PM
Seems excessive, but the salaries seem excessive to me. Well JR get busy and figure this thing out; but from my perspective the next few years will not be pretty!

I would think Reese has been working on this since he was promoted.

Harooni
01-12-2013, 12:37 PM
also, 21 free agents is not a problem if you don't plan to re-sign them all. A majority do not want Osi back. I thinking the Giants only re-sign 4-5 at best and the rest will be testing out the FA market.


but you then have to have $$$ to replace them, over the cap and 22 players to sign and rookies , not good

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 12:38 PM
but you then have to have $$$ to replace them, over the cap and 22 players to sign and rookies , not good

Also not all that unusual

BigBlueAllDay
01-12-2013, 12:51 PM
but you then have to have $$$ to replace them, over the cap and 22 players to sign and rookies , not good

Here's where the team owners did help themseleves out a bit with the current CBA. All Rookie Contracts are capped and the amount years are set.

Poor RG3 has to play 4 years (3 more now) being run into the ground just to approximately match Eli's cap hit for 2013.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 12:59 PM
Here's where the team owners did help themseleves out a bit with the current CBA. All Rookie Contracts are capped and the amount years are set.

Poor RG3 has to play 4 years (3 more now) being run into the ground to approximately match Eli's cap hit for 2013.

Your assuming RG III will be RG III when he is done with rehab.

BigBlueAllDay
01-12-2013, 01:07 PM
Your assuming RG III will be RG III when he is done with rehab.

We're all Giants fans. We'll assume the best. ;)

The Redskins will make him play out his contract or keep him as a backup for the rest of his contract regardless. He still has an arm for the moment. He won't cost them much in terms of team salary cap under his rookie contract.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 01:09 PM
We're all Giants fans. We'll assume the best. ;)

The Redskins will make him play out his contract or keep him as a backup for the rest of his contract regardless. He won't cost them much in terms of team salary cap under his rookie contract.

Every time I think we should push player "X" back from an injury something like RG III happens and I realize we handle the injuries the right way.

BigBlueAllDay
01-12-2013, 01:20 PM
Every time I think we should push player "X" back from an injury something like RG III happens and I realize we handle the injuries the right way.

Well that's because unlike the Redskins, the Giants and a majority of people with common sense in this world actually listen to their doctors.

Harooni
01-12-2013, 01:22 PM
Also not all that unusual not unusal but when you need upgrades as well as re sign players its an issue. i expect some enjoy their team fielding 2nd string players as starters.

Flip Empty
01-12-2013, 02:46 PM
Every time I think we should push player "X" back from an injury something like RG III happens and I realize we handle the injuries the right way.

Apart from Hakeem Nicks, of course.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 02:55 PM
We're all Giants fans. We'll assume the best. ;)

The Redskins will make him play out his contract or keep him as a backup for the rest of his contract regardless. He still has an arm for the moment. He won't cost them much in terms of team salary cap under his rookie contract.

New here? lol

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 02:56 PM
not unusal but when you need upgrades as well as re sign players its an issue. i expect some enjoy their team fielding 2nd string players as starters.

The price of parity, I'm afraid

DarkSaint
01-12-2013, 04:31 PM
I still don't understand why Eli's salary this year is frowned upon like it is his fault. The man deferred money to final years of his contract. If it's guaranteed then its one thing, but Peyton manning was supposed to finish his career in InDy too.

Rudyy
01-12-2013, 04:36 PM
I still don't understand why Eli's salary this year is frowned upon like it is his fault. The man deferred money to final years of his contract. If it's guaranteed then its one thing, but Peyton manning was supposed to finish his career in InDy too.Because some people feel like he didn't play up to his contract therefore somehow he should take a pay cut.

Silly, I know.

jomo
01-12-2013, 04:37 PM
I still don't understand why Eli's salary this year is frowned upon like it is his fault. The man deferred money to final years of his contract. If it's guaranteed then its one thing, but Peyton manning was supposed to finish his career in InDy too.That's not really how restructuring works. Actually Eli took more money when he restructured but he took it as a bonus not salary. Doing it that way allows the team to reduce his salary cap hit in the early years and defer the hit to the back of the contract. That "bonus"he takes when restructuring gets spread over the rest of his contract. So while he is receiving less salary from us next year, we are charged more against the cap for what we've paid him previously. That said, I agree with you. It's not Eli's issue but JR's issue to deal with and resolve.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 04:40 PM
Harooni i'd hate to work for you i landed 2 of the biggest contracts and made you rich while the whole corporation was falling down I deserve stocks in the company and pension

ShakeandBake
01-12-2013, 04:57 PM
Harooni i'd hate to work for you i landed 2 of the biggest contracts and made you rich while the whole corporation was falling down I deserve stocks in the company and pension

The Giants franchise is falling down? This is news to me

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 05:03 PM
The team was in 2011 but Eli had tons of 4th quarter comebacks

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 05:04 PM
and if we didnt win sb that year or make playoffs coughlin probably would of been fired

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 05:07 PM
I still don't understand why Eli's salary this year is frowned upon like it is his fault. The man deferred money to final years of his contract. If it's guaranteed then its one thing, but Peyton manning was supposed to finish his career in InDy too. I don't think his salary is being frowned upon. The CAP is the culprit and we're discussing ways to retain some important players in light of the restricted CAP space which highlights Eli's contract simply because it's a significant piece of the pie. Eli is entitled to every cent of that contract as long as he's in a Giant uniform.

ShakeandBake
01-12-2013, 05:33 PM
The team was in 2011 but Eli had tons of 4th quarter comebacks


and if we didnt win sb that year or make playoffs coughlin probably would of been fired

We haven't been a sub .500 team since 2004! So if we don't win the superbowl every year we are collapsing?

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 05:56 PM
Forgot how long many years it was in a row that we didnt make the playoffs heading into 2011-2012 season think it was 2, if we didnt get in and made it 3 coughlin would be out we all know that.

BeatYale
01-12-2013, 06:01 PM
Personally I think developing talent is more important than retaining talent (at certain positions). We have a franchise QB which is the hardest position to develop/fill. There's only a handful of these of QB's and most teams are still trying to find one of their own. I have no problems with us having a lot of money invested in Eli. The better teams in the league are the ones that get the most out of the talent they have and recognize when to cut ties with players who aren't producing well enough. I think we've done a good job developing talent, but have remained too loyal to certain players who clearly underperform whether that's because of age or injury. DD and Nicks are good examples. DD isn't the player he was, and Nicks shouldn't have been playing with his injuries because he was just a liability on the field in most games.

Rudyy
01-12-2013, 06:11 PM
Personally I think developing talent is more important than retaining talent (at certain positions). We have a franchise QB which is the hardest position to develop/fill. There's only a handful of these of QB's and most teams are still trying to find one of their own. I have no problems with us having a lot of money invested in Eli. The better teams in the league are the ones that get the most out of the talent they have and recognize when to cut ties with players who aren't producing well enough. I think we've done a good job developing talent, but have remained too loyal to certain players who clearly underperform whether that's because of age or injury. DD and Nicks are good examples. DD isn't the player he was, and Nicks shouldn't have been playing with his injuries because he was just a liability on the field in most games.Mods, please remove this post. Way too logical.

AllHailEli
01-12-2013, 06:13 PM
Personally I think developing talent is more important than retaining talent (at certain positions). We have a franchise QB which is the hardest position to develop/fill. There's only a handful of these of QB's and most teams are still trying to find one of their own. I have no problems with us having a lot of money invested in Eli. The better teams in the league are the ones that get the most out of the talent they have and recognize when to cut ties with players who aren't producing well enough. I think we've done a good job developing talent, but have remained too loyal to certain players who clearly underperform whether that's because of age or injury. DD and Nicks are good examples. DD isn't the player he was, and Nicks shouldn't have been playing with his injuries because he was just a liability on the field in most games.

Totally agree. Some people want a game manager as a QB for the Giants. That game manager won't even get deep to the playoffs to manage a game in the Super Bowl. I wonder if these people would like Tony Romo instead, how about Michael Vick who's possibly out of Philly? LOL!

Drez
01-12-2013, 06:32 PM
Because some people feel like he didn't play up to his contract therefore somehow he should take a pay cut.

Silly, I know.
But, he did play to his contract. He played like a $9.6m QB last season, lol.

TheAnalyst
01-13-2013, 09:39 AM
32 isnt young though you start to feel it trust me im 34 . big difference in my recovery time in the gym and playing sports.

Yeah, now imagine playing college football for 4 years and in the NFL for 10 years. 32 is OLD in the NFL. All those dings and bangs and bumps and bruises and strains and cracks and pulls and knocks add up.

TheAnalyst
01-13-2013, 09:45 AM
Personally I think developing talent is more important than retaining talent (at certain positions). We have a franchise QB which is the hardest position to develop/fill. There's only a handful of these of QB's and most teams are still trying to find one of their own. I have no problems with us having a lot of money invested in Eli. The better teams in the league are the ones that get the most out of the talent they have and recognize when to cut ties with players who aren't producing well enough. I think we've done a good job developing talent, but have remained too loyal to certain players who clearly underperform whether that's because of age or injury. DD and Nicks are good examples. DD isn't the player he was, and Nicks shouldn't have been playing with his injuries because he was just a liability on the field in most games.

I agree somewhat. Developing talent is very important to sustain a successful franchise. Also the coaching staff is too loyal with guys and not letting the younger guys play, like Barden or Randle, who clearly would of been the better option then Nicks. I feel they also are doing the same with Eli though. Not that we have anyone near what Eli can do for us, in fact if Eli was down this past year, we may have won 2 games. When Eli under performs, and dont tell me he doesnt, there is no one there to go to. Eli looked terrible at times this season, and if not for his big game vs TB or the final Eagles, he would of ended the season with like a 1:1 TD:INT ratio and not even 3400 yards. That is what an elite leader QB does? What if he has that next year at 32 turning 33, making 20.85M? Are we just going to turn a blind eye?

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 09:48 AM
It's simple. If he plays like he did last year it's not a problem. If he plays like he did this year it is. He is a huge investment for this team.

TheAnalyst
01-13-2013, 09:53 AM
It's simple. If he plays like he did last year it's not a problem. If he plays like he did this year it is. He is a huge investment for this team.

Well he is only getting older, thats what Im trying to say. I dont know about you guys, but I noticed his arm does seem as strong as it once was, especially last season. He under threw the deep ball many many times. Is that old age? Is it not working out? Its something.

As for the person who said DE, LB and QB that 32 isn't old in the NFL, that is hilarious. 32 is old in the NFL no matter what position, maybe except Kicker / Punter. Of course you get the exceptions like Strahan, Ray Lewis, Peyton Manning ect...

bansaw
01-13-2013, 11:17 AM
cost of doing business

now Tuck's 6M + 3M in incentives is a bigger waste of money imo
should add 1M incentive if he can go a whole season without whining like a little *****

TheAnalyst
01-13-2013, 11:28 AM
cost of doing businessnow Tuck's 6M + 3M in incentives is a bigger waste of money imoshould add 1M incentive if he can go a whole season without whining like a little *****Man, how quickly do we forget about him being a HUGE part of winning 2 supwrbowls for us. We don't have to blast our players who were such a big part of Giants football becuase they are getting older and can't perform like they used to.

bansaw
01-13-2013, 11:59 AM
aww are you worried it will hurt his feelings?

2 years in a row he's gone to the media about his feelings - his lack of desire
if he's a Captain again our defense will continue to suck ***

Harooni
01-13-2013, 12:13 PM
i agree with bansaw to a point, seems tuck wants to hug opposing qb's after the game rather than sack them. Tuck was great and one of my fav players, but business is business and i hope reese cuts some of these guys -which i doubt.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 12:19 PM
Man, how quickly do we forget about him being a HUGE part of winning 2 supwrbowls for us. We don't have to blast our players who were such a big part of Giants football becuase they are getting older and can't perform like they used to.

I agree with you, in theory. But in the media market and on these Boards, what have you done lately is the only consistent theme. Where "we've won two Super Bowls in 5 years" is met with "you can't live in the past." We want, demand a Super Bowl run every season.

Some of the people looking to cut veterans now are the same people who rant against teams for a lack of loyalty and having the latitude to cut players. F I C K L E!

On the flip side, when you're depending on certain players to play up to what had been their potential and they can't, it's very demoralizing. Fans are emotional, it's how they express themselves.

We do need to cut players and try to restructure other contracts, that's just business.

bansaw
01-13-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm all for veteran loyalty

but back to back years going to the media about your internal struggles to find the desire to play???

cmon....get rid of him, and a defensive captain?? as Tiki would say - COMICAL

Harooni
01-13-2013, 12:37 PM
As for getting back on topic the best thing to do is Leave Eli's contract alone. Not his fault at all , this is the FO's mess

bansaw
01-13-2013, 12:42 PM
lol Webster's hit is 9.975M

Roosevelt
01-13-2013, 12:50 PM
As for getting back on topic the best thing to do is Leave Eli's contract alone. Not his fault at all , this is the FO's mess

Big Ben is getting $20 million too next year.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 12:54 PM
Big Ben is getting $20 million too next year.

Eli's contract is what it is. I'm pretty sure he's not going to be cut so it's pointless going on about it. To restructure again just makes the next few years as hard to work around as this season. They need to cut players who have peaked.

Harooni
01-13-2013, 01:02 PM
Big Ben is getting $20 million too next year.not really thats his cap hit ,he has restructured a few times also.

ben makes avg 10mill a season and eli 15mil.

Roosevelt
01-13-2013, 04:28 PM
not really thats his cap hit ,he has restructured a few times also.

ben makes avg 10mill a season and eli 15mil.

I don't know. I read this the other day:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1969599/SteelersSalaries2013_01042013.png

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:27 PM
Lol you guys are *****ing about Eli's contract now after hindsight of him having a down year??? Where were you guys last year when he was tearing up the league. Just deal with it he is better then 28 other starting quarterbacks and has 2 SB's. He deserves that money. The are some quarterbacks that haven't won jack **** and almost get that much.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 05:33 PM
Just because another team overpaid a player doesn't mean that Giants fans should just be ok with the way Eli played this year.

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:40 PM
Just because another team overpaid a player doesn't mean that Giants fans should just be ok with the way Eli played this year.Didn't say that, but it's pretty dumb to think Eli is going to be superman every year. Giants fans are the only fans that constantly say the stupidest crap about a quarterback that has brought them 2 lombardis, just because he is not Phil Simms. Eli was not the only problem this year we all know how many things hampered this team. Everyone should know what they are going to get with Eli by now.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 05:59 PM
Didn't say that, but it's pretty dumb to think Eli is going to be superman every year. Giants fans are the only fans that constantly say the stupidest crap about a quarterback that has brought them 2 lombardis, just because he is not Phil Simms. Eli was not the only problem this year we all know how many things hampered this team. Everyone should know what they are going to get with Eli by now.For what he is making next year though he better be much better than tis season.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 06:03 PM
For what he is making next year though he better be much better than tis season.

That's not fair to say either, when you restructure, you have to balloon subsequent seasons' payments. That's not the player's fault.

Sarcasman
01-13-2013, 06:03 PM
It's the annual freak out about the CAP. Not to worry.


Exactly.

I just started reading this thread and rather than reply to individuals I figured I'd just start counting the idiots who do not understand the market until I get to the end.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 06:06 PM
That's not fair to say either, when you restructure, you have to balloon subsequent seasons' payments. That's not the player's fault.Either way, its a lot of money and they need him to play like the franchise QB they signed.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 06:10 PM
Either way, its a lot of money and they need him to play like the franchise QB they signed.

Don't get me wrong, he does need to play better. But to say he needs to play better this season because of his inflated CAP hit really doesn't make sense. His contract, in the aggregate, is what it is. Very few of us pissed and moaned when he and Reese signed the deal.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 06:13 PM
Don't get me wrong, he does need to play better. But to say he needs to play better this season because of his inflated CAP hit really doesn't make sense. His contract, in the aggregate, is what it is. Very few of us pissed and moaned when he and Reese signed the deal.It is fair to say though. He himself said he is a top 5 QB and he wanted to be paid like one at the time of his signing. He restructured and he knew what he would be making this next year. He absolutely has to play better and yes it's also because if what he will be making.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 06:17 PM
It is fair to say though. He himself said he is a top 5 QB and he wanted to be paid like one at the time of his signing. He restructured and he knew what he would be making this next year. He absolutely has to play better and yes it's also because if what he will be making.

He didn't initiate the restructure, the team did. Over 7 years he gets $107M. It's really immaterial when he gets it. He also gets $500K a year as a work out bonus. We've already learned he's "weak." :rolleyes:

Sarcasman
01-13-2013, 06:18 PM
Wow, I'm honestly impressed, only three bona fide morons after 200 posts. I didn't add in the 2 posters whose comments were so ridiculous I assumed they were joking. It's like almost everyone around here took intelligence pills or something.

Someone should have shared theirs with the denver secondary, they'd still be playing ball.......

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 06:19 PM
He didn't initiate the restructure, the team did. Over 7 years he gets $107M. It's really immaterial when he gets it. He also gets $500K a year as a work out bonus. We've already learned he's "weak." :rolleyes:Lol. Yeah, but it didn't hurt him to do it either. How ever it happened, they need him to be very good next year.

AllHailEli
01-13-2013, 06:22 PM
Wow, I'm honestly impressed, only three bona fide morons after 200 posts. I didn't add in the 2 posters whose comments were so ridiculous I assumed they were joking. It's like almost everyone around here took intelligence pills or something.

Someone should have shared theirs with the denver secondary, they'd still be playing ball.......

The real question is who are those three? LOL!

ShakeandBake
01-13-2013, 06:24 PM
Exactly.

I just started reading this thread and rather than reply to individuals I figured I'd just start counting the idiots who do not understand the market until I get to the end.

Hope you have a calculator handy, and a lot of free time

Sarcasman
01-13-2013, 06:24 PM
The real question is who are those three? LOL!


I only handle the sarcasm around here. You'll need to cll Obviousman for that....although it shouldn't be too tough to figure out.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 06:26 PM
Lol. Yeah, but it didn't hurt him to do it either. How ever it happened, they need him to be very good next year.

I agree he needs to play better, he agrees he needs to play better. ALMOST every body else agrees he needs to play better. He makes an obscene amount of money but that's the price of admission.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 06:27 PM
I agree he needs to play better, he agrees he needs to play better. ALMOST every body else agrees he needs to play better. He makes an obscene amount of money but that's the price of admission.Him playing better and healthy players should do wonders for this team.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 06:29 PM
Him playing better and healthy players should do wonders for this team.

I would certainly hope so

Flip Empty
01-13-2013, 06:40 PM
For what he is making next year though he better be much better than tis season.

It isn't even what he'll make next year, it's just how much of his total contract will count towards the cap. Stop looking at cap hits as if they're wages.

Drez
01-13-2013, 06:42 PM
Big Ben is getting $20 million too next year.Talk about a crippling cap hit, Brees' was something like $50m this past season.

Drez
01-13-2013, 06:44 PM
Just because another team overpaid a player doesn't mean that Giants fans should just be ok with the way Eli played this year.Who said any thing about being happy with the way he played? We're talking about how much he is being paid. And again, if we're talking about his pay and play this past season, he only got $9.6m against the cap this past season, and played at about that level.

Drez
01-13-2013, 06:47 PM
Either way, its a lot of money and they need him to play like the franchise QB they signed.
He has played that way. I think 2 SBs justifies his pay.

Drez
01-13-2013, 06:48 PM
It is fair to say though. He himself said he is a top 5 QB and he wanted to be paid like one at the time of his signing. He restructured and he knew what he would be making this next year. He absolutely has to play better and yes it's also because if what he will be making.
Link please. Otherwise I call bull****.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 06:58 PM
Link please. Otherwise I call bull****.Michael Kay show last year.

Drez
01-13-2013, 07:00 PM
Michael Kay show last year.
About wanting to get paid as a top 5 QB?

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 07:01 PM
About wanting to get paid as a top 5 QB?At the time of his contract wasn't he paid top 5 money?

AllHailEli
01-13-2013, 07:13 PM
At the time of his contract wasn't he paid top 5 money?

How many of your top 5 QBs won multiple Super Bowls? Vick made about 14 million this season and Rivers made a little over 15 million, no Super Bowls. Not even close enough to sniff one.

Roosevelt
01-13-2013, 07:14 PM
He also gets $500K a year as a work out bonus.

What's he spending the money on?

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:15 PM
What's he spending the money on?

The TV he watches while working out and the masseuse

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 07:16 PM
How many of your top 5 QBs won multiple Super Bowls? Vick made about 14 million this season and Rivers made a little over 15 million, no Super Bowls. Not even close enough to sniff one.Don't care what other QB's are making. There is a market, no kidding. Doesn't mean Giants fans should just accept that and be happy when they don't get what the team paid for this season.

AllHailEli
01-13-2013, 07:17 PM
By the way, how many games did Vick play this season?

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:19 PM
Don't care what other QB's are making. There is a market, no kidding. Doesn't mean Giants fans should just accept that and be happy when they don't get what the team paid for this season.

You do realize that fans don't have a seat at the negotiating table. :popcorn:

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 07:20 PM
The TV he watches while working out and the masseuseJust because he doesn't look like it doesn't mean he doesn't workout.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:23 PM
Just because he doesn't look like it doesn't mean he doesn't workout.

Man, lighten up. That was a joke.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 07:24 PM
Man, lighten up. That was a joke.Sensitive today? Was kidding too.

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 07:24 PM
For what he is making next year though he better be much better than tis season.Why he cannot control how good he is going to play next year. Your telling me he doesn't deserve that money?? Give me a break, what about Big Ben, you think he deserves as much as he's making?? Eli has ice veins when he gets into the playoffs, I'll take that over regular seasons stats anyday. Let's wait until he has another bad year before we jump down his back. I mean listen to yourself, your complaining about a quarterback that threw for 26 td's and had a couple games where he didn't throw any!!It's a joke. Eli isn't the only reason we missed the playoffs, nor was he the only quarterback to miss the playoffs after winning the SB.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:25 PM
Sensitive today? Was kidding too.

I'm off my meds

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 07:25 PM
You do realize that fans don't have a seat at the negotiating table. :popcorn:Ah yes, but they do play for the fans.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 07:26 PM
Eli is a good QB. Capable of being great at times and sometimes not. Just hoping for the great one next year.

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 07:27 PM
Don't get me wrong, he does need to play better. But to say he needs to play better this season because of his inflated CAP hit really doesn't make sense. His contract, in the aggregate, is what it is. Very few of us pissed and moaned when he and Reese signed the deal.Thank you,it's all hindsight, no one was complaining after 07'and 11'...

AllHailEli
01-13-2013, 07:30 PM
Don't care what other QB's are making. There is a market, no kidding. Doesn't mean Giants fans should just accept that and be happy when they don't get what the team paid for this season.

I'm not happy we did not make the playoffs, but we were so close I hated we lost those games against the Eagles and the Redskins, but that's how the ball bounced this season. We had the same record as last season, but it was not enough to get us in this time. There were crucial FG misses also. It's a moot point right now anyway. Eli is still our best chance and he deserves his money, and I still believe in him.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:30 PM
Ah yes, but they do play for the fans.

Imagine the CAP if we all agreed to not participate? A six pack of RC Cola and a case of moon pies.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:32 PM
I'm not happy we did not make the playoffs, but we were so close I hated we lost those games against the Eagles and the Redskins, but that's how the ball bounced this season. We had the same record as last season, but it was not enough to get us in this time. There were crucial FG misses also. It's a moot point right now anyway. Eli is still our best chance and he deserves his money, and I still believe in him.

Otherwise you'd have to change your username :rolleyes:

AllHailEli
01-13-2013, 07:42 PM
Otherwise you'd have to change your username :rolleyes:

Too much work to bother with changing username. :). I am quite happy with 2 Super Bowls from Eli, both quite unexpected. After Plaxico, it took him about 3 years to develop and have chemistry with the receivers who all came from the draft, and Victor Cruz even came out of nowhere. We lost Plaxico, Steve Smith and Kevin Boss, and yet we still won another Super Bowl? I'm all good but I do believe Eli still has it in him. The difference with having a franchise QB, esp who delivered two Super Bowls, it gives you optimism every season.

GTGiantsFan
01-13-2013, 07:49 PM
Eli is worth every penny, a very good quarterback and many fans still believe he has a few superbowls in him.

On the players playing for the fans part, that can be debated, they get paid if they win or lose anyway.

Roosevelt
01-13-2013, 07:52 PM
Just because he doesn't look like it doesn't mean he doesn't workout.

Yeah, like if you are a badminton player.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 07:55 PM
Yeah, like if you are a badminton player.

That's just wrong lol

Roosevelt
01-13-2013, 08:34 PM
That's just wrong lol

Just adding to the lunacy my friend.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 08:37 PM
Just adding to the lunacy my friend.

This has truly been a FULL MOON experience today

Drez
01-13-2013, 08:49 PM
At the time of his contract wasn't he paid top 5 money?
He wasn't the one that set the market for SB MVP QBs. That's just the going rate for franchise QBs that have won SBs.

Drez
01-13-2013, 08:51 PM
Don't care what other QB's are making. There is a market, no kidding. Doesn't mean Giants fans should just accept that and be happy when they don't get what the team paid for this season.They paid $9.6m this season. They got $9.6m worth of QB play.

Either way, that's not the point. Eli got paid after delivering us one SB, and has since delivered another. If you don't think that's worth the money then you need to find another sport to follow.

Sarcasman
01-13-2013, 09:36 PM
What's he spending the money on?


Heavier beach pails.

ashleymarie
01-13-2013, 09:46 PM
What's he spending the money on?

Charities for sick children.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 10:45 PM
They paid $9.6m this season. They got $9.6m worth of QB play. Either way, that's not the point. Eli got paid after delivering us one SB, and has since delivered another. If you don't think that's worth the money then you need to find another sport to follow.He got a $100 million contract. Expect better play than we saw this year. He has shown he can play at a higher level. Just expect it to be more consistent.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 10:45 PM
He wasn't the one that set the market for SB MVP QBs. That's just the going rate for franchise QBs that have won SBs.Right, and he expected o be paid right?

Drez
01-13-2013, 11:15 PM
Right, and he expected o be paid right?Don't be an idiot.

Drez
01-13-2013, 11:16 PM
He got a $100 million contract. Expect better play than we saw this year. He has shown he can play at a higher level. Just expect it to be more consistent.He has played better, and by virtue of the 2 SBs we've won with him at the helm he's already earned that contract.

And his actual extension was worth less than $100m.

Buddy333
01-13-2013, 11:17 PM
Don't be an idiot.You mean he didn't?