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Jppallday
01-11-2013, 04:24 PM
I honestly think that there is a chance that Victor Cruz might not be on the team next year. He is seeking a lot of money and the Giants may not have the cap space for him, especially if they want to keep Hakeem Nicks who is the better receiver in my eyes. So what happens if he signs with another team? I'm assuming we will give him our 1st round tender. If he leaves do we get the draft pick this year or next year? And do you guys think we go WR in the first 2 rounds again?

Rudyy
01-11-2013, 04:25 PM
Where did you hear he is seeking a lot of money?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:25 PM
I honestly think that there is a chance that Victor Cruz might not be on the team next year. He is seeking a lot of money and the Giants may not have the cap space for him, especially if they want to keep Hakeem Nicks who is the better receiver in my eyes. So what happens if he signs with another team? I'm assuming we will give him our 1st round tender. If he leaves do we get the draft pick this year or next year? And do you guys think we go WR in the first 2 rounds again?

How much is "he" seeking? Not what's being reported in the media.

Nicks isn't a CAP issue until 2014

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:29 PM
i hope

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:30 PM
i hope

You hope Cruz leaves?

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:31 PM
Yes I do not think he will give the same level of play when he hits the big cash

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 04:33 PM
I honestly think that there is a chance that Victor Cruz might not be on the team next year. He is seeking a lot of money and the Giants may not have the cap space for him, especially if they want to keep Hakeem Nicks who is the better receiver in my eyes. So what happens if he signs with another team? I'm assuming we will give him our 1st round tender. If he leaves do we get the draft pick this year or next year? And do you guys think we go WR in the first 2 rounds again?

How much?

M00KIE
01-11-2013, 04:33 PM
You need to change that title...Not nice.

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 04:33 PM
Yes I do not think he will give the same level of play when he hits the big cash

Based on.......?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:33 PM
Yes I do not think he will give the same level of play when he hits the big cash

WOW

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:35 PM
We have RR and JJ and I think they will be suitable replacments for Cruz, and based on he didnt even hit the payload this year but knowing he will already dropped his level of play considerably what do you think will happen when hes getting 6m a year. And also doing "da rock" stuff with jay z and his clothing brands and whatever else hes doing... his image is too big for his play now.

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:37 PM
Do you see top 3 wrs fitzgerald and calvin johnson and andre johnson and even brandon marshall doing stuff like this.. yes Marshall may be a bit dumber for lack of better words than cruz but is more talented... imagine Nicks and Marshall.. wow.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:37 PM
We have RR and JJ and I think they will be suitable replacments for Cruz, and based on he didnt even hit the payload this year but knowing he will already dropped his level of play considerably what do you think will happen when hes getting 6m a year. And also doing "da rock" stuff with jay z and his clothing brands and whatever else hes doing... his image is too big for his play now.

So this is Cruz lifestyle envy? And if you believe Randle and Jernigan will pick up the slack should Cruz leave, I think you might be in error.

Jppallday
01-11-2013, 04:40 PM
How much?

It's been reported, not for sure but reported he is seeking 8-10 million per year which I don't think the Giants can pay him. If a team with a lot of money needs a WR, he could very well be gone

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:40 PM
I do not have envy for Cruz I feel bad for him sometimes I do not wish to play in the NFL I don't want my brain to be mush in a few years.. and yes I do Randle showed good potential and can be a v good wr in the nfl with Eli n Nicks showing him the way of the force.

Rudyy
01-11-2013, 04:41 PM
We have RR and JJ and I think they will be suitable replacments for Cruz, and based on he didnt even hit the payload this year but knowing he will already dropped his level of play considerably what do you think will happen when hes getting 6m a year. And also doing "da rock" stuff with jay z and his clothing brands and whatever else hes doing... his image is too big for his play now.How do you know for a fact RR and JJ will automatically replace Cruz?

Rudyy
01-11-2013, 04:41 PM
It's been reported, not for sure but reported he is seeking 8-10 million per year which I don't think the Giants can pay him. If a team with a lot of money needs a WR, he could very well be goneHE didn't ask for that, somebody estimated that.

Jppallday
01-11-2013, 04:41 PM
So this is Cruz lifestyle envy? And if you believe Randle and Jernigan will pick up the slack should Cruz leave, I think you might be in error.

I agree. I think they would be forced to pick a WR in the first round, especially when they get an extra 1st rounder. I'm just not impressed with WR talent at the top of the draft this year

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:42 PM
Giants value seniority.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:42 PM
I do not have envy for Cruz I feel bad for him sometimes I do not wish to play in the NFL I don't want my brain to be mush in a few years.. and yes I do Randle showed good potential and can be a v good wr in the nfl with Eli n Nicks showing him the way of the force..

Now I see where you're coming from.

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 04:43 PM
We have RR and JJ and I think they will be suitable replacments for Cruz, and based on he didnt even hit the payload this year but knowing he will already dropped his level of play considerably what do you think will happen when hes getting 6m a year. And also doing "da rock" stuff with jay z and his clothing brands and whatever else hes doing... his image is too big for his play now.

Ive been slightly critical of Cruz short arming some passes over the middle, but I get it - the guy has NO deal in place, no security - self preservation is necessary.

I think the opposite, i think with a deal in place Cruz will blow up even bigger... a fearless Cruz is what we'll get. He can easily hit a 1500 yd season.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:44 PM
I agree. I think they would be forced to pick a WR in the first round, especially when they get an extra 1st rounder. I'm just not impressed with WR talent at the top of the draft this year

I think the worst case scenario is for Reese to tag Cruz and put a multiple tender, say 1 and 3, if he can do that. I don't like that because then you do have a conflict next season with Nicks becoming a FA.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:45 PM
Ive been slightly critical of Cruz short arming some passes over the middle, but I get it - the guy has NO deal in place, no security - self preservation is necessary.

I think the opposite, i think with a deal in place Cruz will blow up even bigger... a fearless Cruz is what we'll get. He can easily hit a 1500 yd season.

I would tink this is more likely

PBTimmons
01-11-2013, 04:47 PM
I think the worst case scenario is for Reese to tag Cruz and put a multiple tender, say 1 and 3, if he can do that. I don't like that because then you do have a conflict next season with Nicks becoming a FA.

I've never heard of a multiple pick tender but still I agree with what you are saying. Worst case scenario is that Cruz gets 1st round tendered and a team has to give us their 1st round pick if we can't match a deal.

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:48 PM
RF you are wrong by what I mean "the force" the force is the special connection eli has with his wrs that give them the clutch trait.. and make them better.

cruz will not become better with big deal he wil get worse because he will focus on his outside life rather than the nfl since he already has the big money there... fs.

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:49 PM
I've never heard of a multiple pick tender but still I agree with what you are saying. Worst case scenario is that Cruz gets 1st round tendered and a team has to give us their 1st round pick if we can't match a deal.

I really don't see Cruz taking that hard a line to make a deal unreachable

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 04:49 PM
RF you are wrong by what I mean "the force" the force is the special connection eli has with his wrs that give them the clutch trait.. and make them better.

cruz will not become better with big deal he wil get worse because he will focus on his outside life rather than the nfl since he already has the big money there... fs.

You have no way of knowing that to be a true statement.

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 04:50 PM
It is a likely statement think about all the money his outside enterprises can make him. alot more than 6m a year..

dakotajoe
01-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Michael Jordan was a pretty good player considering all of his outside ventures...

I'm aware that Jordan and Cruz are athletes and two different sports and have little in common other than being prominent athletes. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think outside ventures will necessarily impact performance on the field. Cruz doesn't seem like the type of guy who would let his teammates down.

rainierjef
01-11-2013, 05:12 PM
Where did you hear he is seeking a lot of money?
I find it funny that you are the first person to post on this and a minute after its put up no less. Mighty protective of your first love huh rudster?

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 05:15 PM
do not ever compare jordan to cruz.. jordan was the best player to ever plauy the game of basketball cruz isnt even a top 10 player right now

dakotajoe
01-11-2013, 05:22 PM
do not ever compare jordan to cruz.. jordan was the best player to ever plauy the game of basketball cruz isnt even a top 10 player right now

I agree with that. Jordan was an all-time great if not the best player to play in his sport while Cruz isn't far removed from his rookie season.

To be honest Jordan's personality comes off way more self centered than Cruz. If I was completely oblivious to each of the athlete's skills I'd venture to guess that success and outside ventures would go to Jordan's head and affect his play more than Cruz.

The Jordan comparison is ridiculous but so is calling Jernigan a suitable replacement for Cruz! :)

Giantsfan241
01-11-2013, 05:28 PM
Jernigan exhbits some skills that Cruz has i am not saying randle and jj are same quality football players as cruz but they can turn out too be very good wr's...

Jordan was arrogant but was only arrogant cause he knew he was the best and did not take crap from anyone.. cruz is humble and just looking for money and perserving his future.. trust me his agents will advise him not to give it his all and get injured and ruin this potential clothing lines shoe lines tv shows... his dance can be made into something special look at all the commercials he has already.

AllHailEli
01-11-2013, 05:33 PM
Well, Cruz turned down DWTS last season to supposedly focus on football, so hopefully he continues to have his focus in the right place.

nhpgiantsfan
01-11-2013, 05:44 PM
He'll take a discount to stay here. He isn't worth anything to Jay-Z if he isn't in New York.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 06:32 PM
do not ever compare jordan to cruz.. jordan was the best player to ever plauy the game of basketball cruz isnt even a top 10 player right now

he is at his position,,,not saying he is jordan,,but cruz is good at his craft.

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 06:42 PM
I'd rather franchise cruze this season and let nicks go next season to get cruze an extension

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 06:46 PM
I'd rather franchise cruze this season and let nicks go next season to get cruze an extension

as much as I love nicks this might be a sad reality. he just can't stay healthy. this up coming season will dictate a lot about nicks future with the giants. on the flip side because of this he should come cheaper and thus be resigned.

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 06:49 PM
as much as I love nicks this might be a sad reality. he just can't stay healthy. this up coming season will dictate a lot about nicks future with the giants. on the flip side because of this he should come cheaper and thus be resigned.

I rather have the cap space.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 06:52 PM
I rather have the cap space.

lets see what happens with him next season,,the grass is not always greener on the other side.

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 06:57 PM
lets see what happens with him next season,,the grass is not always greener on the other side.

The giants got all their gonna get out of him

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 06:58 PM
The giants got all their gonna get out of him

based on what?

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 07:00 PM
based on what?

Based on his health he looks used up and slow

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 07:03 PM
Based on his health he looks used up and slow

did you happen to see him in the playoffs last year? your logic makes no sense,,so I am assuming you flip the script next year if he comes back ballin?

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 07:05 PM
as much as I love nicks this might be a sad reality. he just can't stay healthy. this up coming season will dictate a lot about nicks future with the giants. on the flip side because of this he should come cheaper and thus be resigned.

This is the first year in his career that he has been really banged up, outside of this year the guy misses 2 games/yr on average which is most certainly not in the "injury prone" realm

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-11-2013, 07:09 PM
This is the first year in his career that he has been really banged up, outside of this year the guy misses 2 games/yr on average which is most certainly not in the "injury prone" realm

didnt say he was,,,,but his performance next year,,as said in my post,,will determine a lot.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 07:10 PM
didnt say he was,,,,but his performance next year,,as said in my post,,will determine a lot.

Then what does "he just can't stay healthy" mean? Of course next year will determine a lot, its the last year in his contract.

G14ntzF4π
01-11-2013, 07:23 PM
did you happen to see him in the playoffs last year? your logic makes no sense,,so I am assuming you flip the script next year if he comes back ballin?

Ya I also seen him this year and he looked slow

Ruttiger711
01-11-2013, 07:51 PM
Ya I also seen him this year and he looked slow

Looked (was) injured

GameTime
01-11-2013, 08:14 PM
Yes I do not think he will give the same level of play when he hits the big cash

really.....why??

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 08:18 PM
Ya I also seen him this year and he looked slow

Unlike when we have a broken foot and a knee injury, athletes baby themselves

MattyD21
01-11-2013, 08:19 PM
Just curious here , something thats done in English soccer alot with bigger player contracts . say a guy is looking for a 3yr/ 30 million dollar contract the team will offer 25 Mil and then the rest will be made up by incentives within the media like jersey sales and other sponsorship deals(commercials, clothing ,shoes ect) i was wondering if they NFL does things like this because i recall Cruz being in the Campell's commercial and foot locker commercial. Could something like this be done with cruz's contract?

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 08:21 PM
Just curious here , something thats done in English soccer alot with bigger player contracts . say a guy is looking for a 3yr/ 30 million dollar contract the team will offer 25 Mil and then the rest will be made up by incentives within the media like jersey sales and other sponsorship deals(commercials, clothing ,shoes ect) i was wondering if they NFL does things like this because i recall Cruz being in the Campell's commercial and foot locker commercial. Could something like this be done with cruz's contract?
Nope, endorsements are independent of a player's team contract.

brad
01-11-2013, 08:32 PM
I like Cruz a lot, and I really hope they can reach an agreement that benefits both him and the team. However, this is a business and in any business you have to look at the Cost/Benefit or the ROI. There is a price point where the cost to keep him starts to negatively impact the team as a whole by preventing them from securing players at other positions of need. As much as I would like to see Cruz on the team next year, I believe that improving the O-line and the defensive front 7 will have a bigger impact on the team as a whole than Cruz alone will. Hopefully they can do both...

ImElectric2
01-11-2013, 08:41 PM
Wow. Really glad a lot of you are nowhere near our F.O. Let's lock up Cruz and Nicks both if we can. They are both fantastic and have been nothing but ideal examples of what a NYG should be. Humble. Hard Working. Unselfish. Team oriented. What of their past behavior could indicate anything but being standup men on and off the field? It boggles my mind that this sort of speculation is even happening.

Rat_bastich
01-11-2013, 08:52 PM
I would tink this is more likely

I know I'm a few pages behind, but I just got to work so sue me. I'm not sure Cruz will put up a 1500 yard season again. I think alot of what happened in the 2011 season was a product of the lockout and defenses were still catching up near the end of the season to some of the most prolific offensive stats the NFL has ever seen(namely a bunch of 5000 yard passers). That being said, the Cruz of 2012, minus the drops, still had an outstanding season and was an integral part of our offense.

I think many fans were spoiled in 2011. Cruz coupled with a healthy Nicks and now (possibly) Bennett could be a dangerous combination for years to come. Hell, even if Bennett doesn't stay the tandem of Cruz and Nicks is enough tom put some fear into a defensive coordinator.

Flip Empty
01-11-2013, 08:53 PM
Based on his health he looks used up and slow
Nicks is 25, yet you think he's done?

brad
01-11-2013, 08:55 PM
Nicks is 25, yet you think he's done?

LOL, 25 is the new 30, haven't you heard?

RoanokeFan
01-11-2013, 08:59 PM
I know I'm a few pages behind, but I just got to work so sue me. I'm not sure Cruz will put up a 1500 yard season again. I think alot of what happened in the 2011 season was a product of the lockout and defenses were still catching up near the end of the season to some of the most prolific offensive stats the NFL has ever seen(namely a bunch of 5000 yard passers). That being said, the Cruz of 2012, minus the drops, still had an outstanding season and was an integral part of our offense.

I think many fans were spoiled in 2011. Cruz coupled with a healthy Nicks and now (possibly) Bennett could be a dangerous combination for years to come. Hell, even if Bennett doesn't stay the tandem of Cruz and Nicks is enough tom put some fear into a defensive coordinator.

Let's just hope we keep Bennett and Cruz this season and take care of Nicks next season

Giantterp
01-11-2013, 09:37 PM
We have RR and JJ and I think they will be suitable replacments for Cruz, and based on he didnt even hit the payload this year but knowing he will already dropped his level of play considerably what do you think will happen when hes getting 6m a year. And also doing "da rock" stuff with jay z and his clothing brands and whatever else hes doing... his image is too big for his play now.

Still can't get over this comment. This is laughable...

Rat_bastich
01-11-2013, 09:43 PM
Let's just hope we keep Bennett and Cruz this season and take care of Nicks next season

Nicks and Cruz definitely, Bennett is important as we haven't been able to keep a tight end for any length of time. I think if it came down to it though, Bennett would probably be the odd man out since we have had productive tight ends come out of the wood work before and the Giants probably think they could develop another one.

I would love to keep all three together especially since we have bigger fish to fry in the trenches and almost everywhere else.

sheli no more
01-11-2013, 09:57 PM
Based on this year. His dropped balls, looking behind him and less production hurt this team big time. Last year he was an unknown and much like JPP when he recieved some double teams or underneath and over the top coverage his production dropped like a lead balloon.

gmen46
01-11-2013, 10:09 PM
Based on this year. His dropped balls, looking behind him and less production hurt this team big time. Last year he was an unknown and much like JPP when he recieved some double teams or underneath and over the top coverage his production dropped like a lead balloon.

Which explains why he had more receptions and TDs this year than last year, I suppose.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 10:27 PM
Which explains why he had more receptions and TDs this year than last year, I suppose.

Cruz had 4 more receptions than last year, one more touchdown yet almost 500 less yards.

ImElectric2
01-11-2013, 10:43 PM
Cruz had 4 more receptions than last year, one more touchdown yet almost 500 less yards.Lol, 500 yards less than a year he broke the Giants single season record for most yards in a season. And still had more receptions even though he had "oh, so many!" drops. Lol, yeah, Cruz really showed how little he's worth this year...

ImElectric2
01-11-2013, 10:46 PM
Also, how is any amount of TDs more than the year before a bad thing? So we can bash him when he doesn't match his huge, breakout/record breaking year and then slam him again.when he does better in one of the most vital statistics any offensive player can have? Seems legit.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 11:16 PM
Lol, 500 yards less than a year he broke the Giants single season record for most yards in a season. And still had more receptions even though he had "oh, so many!" drops. Lol, yeah, Cruz really showed how little he's worth this year...

Did I say any of these things? I was pointing out that last year he had a better year than this one.

ShakeandBake
01-11-2013, 11:20 PM
Also, how is any amount of TDs more than the year before a bad thing? So we can bash him when he doesn't match his huge, breakout/record breaking year and then slam him again.when he does better in one of the most vital statistics any offensive player can have? Seems legit.

No one said it was a bad thing, here you go again conjuring up nonsense!

DandyDon
01-12-2013, 12:10 AM
In my in-expert opinion of Cruz and the Gints management, I will be amazed if Cruz is not a giant for at least the next 3 years.

Nicks is different thing. Sad how he was 1 or 2 steps slow all year. I want to believe he will recover, but $$ realities makes me think he will not be a Giant next year.

ELI_Iz_God
01-12-2013, 12:10 AM
Where did you hear he is seeking a lot of money?

Bigger question is...Can he justify Big money? Yeah he was great last season...this season he had 7 games with 50 yards or less. As far as I'm concerned we can set up a mediocre contract for him now...then next season he can prove he is big money worthy.

Just because you helped us win a SB your first season doesn't give you a free pass to stink it up half of the next season and still retain your "NFL Value"

dakotajoe
01-12-2013, 12:22 AM
Bigger question is...Can he justify Big money? Yeah he was great last season...this season he had 7 games with 50 yards or less. As far as I'm concerned we can set up a mediocre contract for him now...then next season he can prove he is big money worthy.

Just because you helped us win a SB your first season doesn't give you a free pass to stink it up half of the next season and still retain your "NFL Value"

If Santonio Holmes is worth 8-9 million a year, how much is Cruz worth? Holmes best season of his career was arguably worse than Cruz's season this year in which people think he under performed.

ImElectric2
01-12-2013, 12:32 AM
No one said it was a bad thing, here you go again conjuring up nonsense!Well it certainly came across as though you were diminishing his TDs bc it was ONLY one more. My apologies if I interpreted it wrong.

ShakeandBake
01-12-2013, 12:56 AM
Well it certainly came across as though you were diminishing his TDs bc it was ONLY one more. My apologies if I interpreted it wrong.

Another poster was saying that he had more receptions and TD's this year than last, and I was just pointing out that his receptions and TD's the past two years have been almost identical. He did put up more yards last year, but he had a very good year this year as well.

slipknottin
01-12-2013, 01:35 AM
So tag Cruz, get a first round for him. Draft Tavon Austin.

I love Cruz, but everyone is replaceable.

Marvelousmik
01-12-2013, 01:57 AM
Bigger question is...Can he justify Big money? Yeah he was great last season...this season he had 7 games with 50 yards or less. As far as I'm concerned we can set up a mediocre contract for him now...then next season he can prove he is big money worthy.

Just because you helped us win a SB your first season doesn't give you a free pass to stink it up half of the next season and still retain your "NFL Value"

ill lose respect for the giants if they disrespect cruz like that. he should be able to at least make 7-8 mill a year. he earned it.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 06:47 AM
Nicks and Cruz definitely, Bennett is important as we haven't been able to keep a tight end for any length of time. I think if it came down to it though, Bennett would probably be the odd man out since we have had productive tight ends come out of the wood work before and the Giants probably think they could develop another one.

I would love to keep all three together especially since we have bigger fish to fry in the trenches and almost everywhere else.

Rememeber, Nicks isn't a FA until 2014 so we could do Bennett and Cruz, hopefully

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 06:50 AM
Bigger question is...Can he justify Big money? Yeah he was great last season...this season he had 7 games with 50 yards or less. As far as I'm concerned we can set up a mediocre contract for him now...then next season he can prove he is big money worthy.

Just because you helped us win a SB your first season doesn't give you a free pass to stink it up half of the next season and still retain your "NFL Value"

How did he "stink it up" by adding another 1,000 yard season to the 1,500 the previous season and leading all receivers again? You might have a point if the rest of the offense was clicking but we all know that wasn't the case.

Should we take some of Eli's money because he did some stinking up of his own? How many games with ZERO TDs?

Ruttiger711
01-12-2013, 07:44 AM
In my in-expert opinion of Cruz and the Gints management, I will be amazed if Cruz is not a giant for at least the next 3 years.Nicks is different thing. Sad how he was 1 or 2 steps slow all year. I want to believe he will recover, but $$ realities makes me think he will not be a Giant next year.Rest easy - he's a Giant next year.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 07:57 AM
Rest easy - he's a Giant next year.

We're going to hold you to that :cool:

ELI_Iz_God
01-12-2013, 02:24 PM
How did he "stink it up" by adding another 1,000 yard season to the 1,500 the previous season and leading all receivers again? You might have a point if the rest of the offense was clicking but we all know that wasn't the case.

Should we take some of Eli's money because he did some stinking up of his own? How many games with ZERO TDs?


Cruz's best game was against Tampa....oh but wait a minute he was paired up with Nicks who had an even better game. If Nicks wasn't playing that day then Cruz probably wouldn't of even broke 100 yards and probably doesn't get his 1000 yard season.

I'm not saying he does not deserve Big money Ever....but let's face it he dropped way too many passes this year and frankly did not look like the same player a year ago. That raises question marks.

This season makes me believe that Cruz is only "Great" when he is paired up with Nicks...by himself he is a "Good" receiver. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this.

Toadofsteel
01-12-2013, 02:25 PM
If Santonio Holmes is worth 8-9 million a year, how much is Cruz worth? Holmes best season of his career was arguably worse than Cruz's season this year in which people think he under performed.

To Holmes' credit, he DID have Sanchez throwing him the ball...

Flip Empty
01-12-2013, 02:39 PM
Cruz's best game was against Tampa....oh but wait a minute he was paired up with Nicks who had an even better game. If Nicks wasn't playing that day then Cruz probably wouldn't of even broke 100 yards and probably doesn't get his 1000 yard season.
What kind of an argument is this? One game defines his season?

How about the three touchdowns Cruz scored on Cleveland? Or the 109/1 outing vs Philadelphia? Nicks missed those two games.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 02:52 PM
Cruz's best game was against Tampa....oh but wait a minute he was paired up with Nicks who had an even better game. If Nicks wasn't playing that day then Cruz probably wouldn't of even broke 100 yards and probably doesn't get his 1000 yard season.

I'm not saying he does not deserve Big money Ever....but let's face it he dropped way too many passes this year and frankly did not look like the same player a year ago. That raises question marks.

This season makes me believe that Cruz is only "Great" when he is paired up with Nicks...by himself he is a "Good" receiver. I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks this.


Well, if we don't make him an offer commensurate with his skills, even if you can't see them, then he'll be wearing a different uniform in 2013. Teams will offer him a lot of money to play for them. If you're suggesting Reese will get a second chance next year, you'd be wrong. Back to back 1,000+ yard seasons, leading receiver in both of those seasons, Pro Bowl invitation.

As for your passes dropped argument, Eli overthew/underthrew a lot of passes and made some terrible decisions. What do we do about that?

All receivers drop passes and with all the passes Cruz dropped, he still went over the 1,000 yard mark.

Flip Empty
01-12-2013, 03:00 PM
The players with the most dropped pass in 2012 were Jimmy Graham with 13, and Cruz, Brandon Marshall, Demariyus Thomas and Calvin Johnson with 10.

Bums, the lot of them.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 03:03 PM
The players with the most dropped pass in 2012 were Jimmy Graham with 13, and Cruz, Brandon Marshall, Demariyus Thomas and Calvin Johnson with 10.

Bums, the lot of them.

Ship them all to the CFL

ELI_Iz_God
01-12-2013, 03:18 PM
What kind of an argument is this? One game defines his season?

How about the three touchdowns Cruz scored on Cleveland? Or the 109/1 outing vs Philadelphia? Nicks missed those two games.

Scoring 3 touchdowns on the browns? ...yeah a lot of people scored on the browns this year...lets not even try to make that game special.

Ruttiger711
01-12-2013, 03:26 PM
We're going to hold you to that :cool:Pretty sure he was concerned about Nicks being in blue next year - that's about as confident as I can get :).

Flip Empty
01-12-2013, 03:27 PM
Scoring 3 touchdowns on the browns? ...yeah a lot of people scored on the browns this year...lets not even try to make that game special.
The Bucs had the worst pass defense in the league - why bring that game up, then?

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 03:27 PM
Pretty sure he was concerned about Nicks being in blue next year - that's about as confident as I can get :).

We're going to have a better 2013

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 04:36 PM
Cruz did not have a top 5 wr season this year.. end of story.

RoanokeFan
01-12-2013, 05:14 PM
Cruz did not have a top 5 wr season this year.. end of story. Why is that the end of the story? There's more to every story than that. None if our receivers were top 5, including Nicks due to injury.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 05:31 PM
end of story because he does not deserve top 5 wr money and can go if he asks for that

Redeyejedi
01-12-2013, 06:00 PM
Ship them all to the CFL Calvin Johnson was thrown to 60 more times, Brandon Marshall 50. He was on par with D Thomas .

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:00 PM
redeyejedi thank you for looking further into the statistics. saves me time. thank you again.

G-MANning4Life
01-12-2013, 06:01 PM
Anything is possible, but I think the likelihood of keeping him is greater than losing him.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 06:12 PM
Every time I log on here, someone here is super drunk and making stupid threads. How can you think Randle would be a great replacement over Cruz based off of one game?

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:14 PM
Dipset your name is close to what it should be.. but not there.. like your post.

Randle can be a v good reciever.. cruz is not necessary like eli or jpp... we have people who can replace him and be potentially great wr's.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 06:16 PM
Dipset your name is close to what it should be.. but not there.. like your post.

Randle can be a v good reciever.. cruz is not necessary like eli or jpp... we have people who can replace him and be potentially great wr's. What?

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:17 PM
if we slightly edited your name and post it would make them correct.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 06:18 PM
if we slightly edited your name and post it would make them correct. You're a full blown idiot.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:18 PM
Somebody is angry.. relax I am just stating facts lol...

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 06:19 PM
Somebody is angry.. relax I am just stating facts lol... I'm not angry, and opinions aren't facts. Swallow some razor blades and chase it with rubbing alcohol ya donk.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:23 PM
Seriously man relax... stop flaming me I am just stating a fact which is Cruz is not a necessary component to the long term success of the New York Football Giants... he can be replaced.. easily. When you have a QB like Eli it is easy.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 06:25 PM
You're trolling and this thread is bad..

You should feel bad.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:26 PM
I don't troll i state good facts you are trolling "eat razer blades ur an idiot" youre not contributing anything so just be quiet please.. this is a thread discussing if cruz could potentially leave and how we feel about if he does leave..

Fact remains that Giants do have the personell to replace a player like V Cruz.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 06:29 PM
I don't troll i state good facts you are trolling "eat razer blades ur an idiot" youre not contributing anything so just be quiet please.. this is a thread discussing if cruz could potentially leave and how we feel about if he does leave..

Fact remains that Giants do have the personell to replace a player like V Cruz. No, we do not have the "personell" to replace Cruz and this thread is for the birds. Cruz will remain a Giant, and your logic is flawed.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:39 PM
My logic is not flawed and we do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr.

ShakeandBake
01-12-2013, 06:53 PM
No, we do not have the "personell" to replace Cruz and this thread is for the birds. Cruz will remain a Giant, and your logic is flawed.




Im not epileptic but you need to stop posting this otherwise someone is bound to have a seizure because of it

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 06:57 PM
Ty shake and bake that is giving me a headache now.

Mod_C
01-12-2013, 07:03 PM
No, we do not have the "personell" to replace Cruz and this thread is for the birds. Cruz will remain a Giant, and your logic is flawed.




Change your sig

Mod_C
01-12-2013, 07:13 PM
We need to stop the personal attacks

gmen46
01-12-2013, 07:50 PM
My logic is not flawed and we do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr.

If your logic is not flawed, it's because it is non existent.

"We do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr"?

Assuming you are not referring to Nicks as a replacement for Cruz (since Nicks is already in the mix), what replacement player do you have in mind that would replace Cruz' "inferior" numbers of 2012? Who do we currently have on the roster that you know FOR CERTAIN will match Cruz in impact on the offense?

You imply that simply because Cruz was not a "top 5" WR this year that he's easily replaceable. Really that simple, huh?

Cruz was not top 5 in all statistics this year, that's true. I'd say he was top 10.

I don't know what matrix you are using to meet your "top 5" qualification, but just using a few common statistical WR measuring sticks fro 2012 Cruz was---

6th(T) in TDs (10), tied with M. Colston, Julio Jones, Demarius Thomas

7th(T) in longest reception of the year (80 yds)

10th in receptions (86)

15th in total yds

But stats by themselves do not indicate a receivers total worth to a QB and to a team's offense. This year (vs 2011) Cruz arguably caught out of the slot position somewhat more than he did last year, which can have some impact upon a receiver's yds per catch average. Cruz was referred to multiple times this year by no less than Troy Aikman (not that he's the one-and-only expert on the matter, but he DOES know something about receivers and their talent) as the "best slot receiver in the league right now". The value to a QB of a highly reliable slot receiver is measured by much more than yardage.

As I say, Cruz is not "top 5" WR, but so what? At the very least he's been a top 10 receiver for the last 2 seasons. Out of approx 195 active WRs every year on 32 teams, top 10 is highly valuable. And not nearly as "easy to replace" as you claim.

I love what Hixon has brought to our team, when healthy, including this season. I love the occasional flashes we saw from Randle, as well. I'm convinced he will be a valuable part of our WR stable. But their value is as strong components of our receiving corps, not as "easy replacements" for Cruz.

You are revealing a lack of understanding and appreciation for the rare talent that is Cruz.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 07:58 PM
Longest reception? Really? That's a "important" stat? Any bench player can go out and catch a 60 yard pass if they have speed and the D makes the wrong adjustment in the secondary.

We have players on this team that can step up if Cruz leaves... if Cruz was injured all of last year would you not put faith in the likes of Hixon, Randle, Jernigan, Barden?

Nicks was injured and players stepped up and played well, if they were given consistent playing time they might of played better... Cruz is replaceable with people on this time.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 08:11 PM
Change your sig
LOL I dont have a sig.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-12-2013, 08:12 PM
If your logic is not flawed, it's because it is non existent.

"We do have the players to replace a person like Cruz he's not a top 5 wr"?

Assuming you are not referring to Nicks as a replacement for Cruz (since Nicks is already in the mix), what replacement player do you have in mind that would replace Cruz' "inferior" numbers of 2012? Who do we currently have on the roster that you know FOR CERTAIN will match Cruz in impact on the offense?

You imply that simply because Cruz was not a "top 5" WR this year that he's easily replaceable. Really that simple, huh?

Cruz was not top 5 in all statistics this year, that's true. I'd say he was top 10.

I don't know what matrix you are using to meet your "top 5" qualification, but just using a few common statistical WR measuring sticks fro 2012 Cruz was---

6th(T) in TDs (10), tied with M. Colston, Julio Jones, Demarius Thomas

7th(T) in longest reception of the year (80 yds)

10th in receptions (86)

15th in total yds

But stats by themselves do not indicate a receivers total worth to a QB and to a team's offense. This year (vs 2011) Cruz arguably caught out of the slot position somewhat more than he did last year, which can have some impact upon a receiver's yds per catch average. Cruz was referred to multiple times this year by no less than Troy Aikman (not that he's the one-and-only expert on the matter, but he DOES know something about receivers and their talent) as the "best slot receiver in the league right now". The value to a QB of a highly reliable slot receiver is measured by much more than yardage.

As I say, Cruz is not "top 5" WR, but so what? At the very least he's been a top 10 receiver for the last 2 seasons. Out of approx 195 active WRs every year on 32 teams, top 10 is highly valuable. And not nearly as "easy to replace" as you claim.

I love what Hixon has brought to our team, when healthy, including this season. I love the occasional flashes we saw from Randle, as well. I'm convinced he will be a valuable part of our WR stable. But their value is as strong components of our receiving corps, not as "easy replacements" for Cruz.

You are revealing a lack of understanding and appreciation for the rare talent that is Cruz. Well said

gmen46
01-12-2013, 09:05 PM
Longest reception? Really? That's a "important" stat? Any bench player can go out and catch a 60 yard pass if they have speed and the D makes the wrong adjustment in the secondary.

We have players on this team that can step up if Cruz leaves... if Cruz was injured all of last year would you not put faith in the likes of Hixon, Randle, Jernigan, Barden?



Nicks was injured and players stepped up and played well, if they were given consistent playing time they might of played better... Cruz is replaceable with people on this time.

You're joking. Jernigan and Barden? Did you just begin watching the Giants, or football, this year for the first time? If that's the case, then you might get a pass on that statement. If not, you should be ashamed. You just gave up any expectation of credibility.

If what Cruz accomplished last year AND this year were so easily replaceable, then any of the other 195 wide receivers this year would be able to do it. The fact is that very few could--or did--do what he did this year.

As you mentioned, Nicks missed 3 games, and was ineffective in several other games he was in this year, due to his ongoing knee and foot issues.

I've already given my props to Hixon and Randle. But they are not on Cruz' level. As one of the top 2-3 slot receivers in the game right now, Cruz accomplishes this by consistently running some of the best routes. Randle does not do that Hixon on occasion can, but not that often. More importantly, they all had opportunities this year, and only came through in 1 or 2 games.

Cruz had the same opportunity to step up in 2011 when Manningham missed 1-2 games early in the season. He not only took advantage of the opportunity for 1 game or even 2 games. He stepped up and never looked back. Barden, Hixon, Randle each had A GAME where they stepped up, but then receded into their existing roles.

If they were as capable to replace Cruz so easily as you insist, one or more of them would have done so this year when Nicks was down and/or ineffective when he was in.

They didn't. You're wrong. It's easy to prove you wrong. And then you suggest--by asking me the question regarding them--that even Barden and Jernigan could "easily" replace Cruz. hahahahahahahahahahaha

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 09:07 PM
I never said they could bring the same level of play as Cruz does but Randle could be a very good reciever if given the chance, and be a suitable replacement without breaking the bank.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 09:08 PM
Jernigan exhbitis some of the skills Cruz has, and Barden can make some good plays also.. it's not like if we don't resign cruz we are doomed, we have people who can step up and play. Our WR position is deep just like the RB spot, I know that two years ago it'd be crazy for me to say that we could replace Bradshaw with Brown but look at where we are now.

gmen46
01-12-2013, 10:13 PM
I never said they could bring the same level of play as Cruz does but Randle could be a very good reciever if given the chance, and be a suitable replacement without breaking the bank.

You imply they (our other 4 receivers) can bring the same level of play as Cruz, when you state each of them can "easily replace" him. You said that. You can't evade that statement by restating the same thing in slightly different terms. Many on this board try that tactic, when challenged, but it doesn't work.

I've already stipulated I believe in Randle and see a lot of potential in him. But his contribution to our depth only counts as "depth" if we keep our current players. If you let Cruz go elsewhere, our "depth" decreases exponentially. And, if Randle DOES step up next year to Cruz level, then he, too, will command the "break the bank" dollars you are so afraid of. As it is, Randle is likely paid more than Cruz right now, since he's on a 2nd round draft pick salary scale, while Cruz is on a undrafted free agent pay contract (I've not looked up Randle's contract, but it stands to reason).

Either way, you're arguing for letting a proven young receiver stud with several years of high level production go in exchange for hoping. Randle will replace him at a similar level (and if not as good as Cruz, then what's the advantage?). Meanwhile, who replaces Randle?

You ever hear the phrase "penny wise, pound foolish"? You are an example of that phrase.

gmen46
01-12-2013, 10:38 PM
Jernigan exhbitis some of the skills Cruz has, and Barden can make some good plays also.. it's not like if we don't resign cruz we are doomed, we have people who can step up and play. Our WR position is deep just like the RB spot, I know that two years ago it'd be crazy for me to say that we could replace Bradshaw with Brown but look at where we are now.

Yes, look where we are now. Brown--as good as he has been on those rare occasions when he can actually play in a game--has been in the league for 4 years.
He missed his entire rookie year due to torn achilles.
He knocked around the league on 5-6 different teams his 2nd year, after Giants released him right before season started (because he couldn't make the cut), and could not stick with any of those teams because he still was unable to run like he could in college--
He spent all of his 3rd season in the league on the Giants' practice squad. He was good enough for the Giants to want to give him a 2nd chance, but not good enough to make the roster in 2011.
He finally, in season 4, shows the strength as a RB that originally attracted the Giants in 09, has a breakout game in Week 3 and earns a solid position as #2 RB, leads all Giants running backs in TDs, then breaks his leg and misses the last 6 games.

Look at where we are now, indeed.

Giantsfan241
01-12-2013, 10:58 PM
Fact remains, I could ramble off doezensof Good recievers in the NFL, they are not hard to find... Cruz was an UDFA remember. Meaning, that if we don't pay Cruz a ridiculous amount of money, we can find a suitable replacement. Randle might be even BETTER than Cruz, who knows? Nobody thought Cruz would be as good as he is, Randle also showed a lot of flash in the pre-season if I remember correctly. The Giants have never had a problem with finding talent at the receiver position for the last few years, they have a lot of "depth" as you put it, we did not spend a second round pick on a WR for him to barely play for the next 4-5 years, The Giants had to of expected good things out of Randle.

And the point I was making is, people would think I was crazy for saying "Brown can run better than Bradshaw" and Brown did when he got the ball consistently, right now I'd take Brown over Bradshaw. And if we have to pay Cruz a lot of money I'd put my money on our high draft pick panning out with an Elite Quarterback, and an Elite healthy Hakeem Nicks on the other side. Don't tell me it's such a ludicrous idea to think a second round pick who has showed good potential in his first year in the NFL to be a great player when you have a guy like Eli at the helm.

I'm not saying Cruz isn't a top 10 WR, I'm not saying he's worth a good contract, but I don't think we should pay him huge amounts, I'd be happy with 5-6 million a year, but not a penny more.

gmenfan0488
01-12-2013, 11:42 PM
Where did you hear he is seeking a lot of money?


he wants 8-10 million a year.

gmen46
01-12-2013, 11:45 PM
241--

1) You again imply Cruz is not an extraordinary find by the Giants org when you state "Cruz was UDFA remember", as if any team can come with such a find, in any given season following the draft. Well no, they can't. Why do you think he received so much attention by the end of last year? In part because he did make some fantastic plays like his first career TD, vs Namdi, the juggle TD catch vs Seattle, and of course the 99 yarder Christmas Eve. But another big reason, not to be diminished, was because he was that good and because he'd been snubbed by the NFL Combine and had been overlooked by 31 other teams.

2) It doesn't matter what you--or any of us--would be "happy" to pay Cruz. It's a market place, and Cruz will justifiably look for a contract that adequately reflects the value he believes he gives the team, and in the context of what other receivers are getting that rank close to him. On the other hand, Cruz has gone out of his way to say publicly how much he wants to continue with the Giants, and that can make a difference in negotiations. And I believe him.

3) I happen to think he's not interested in "breaking the bank", but he does deserve a competitive contract--in terms of length and/or annual average with probably a guarantee of 1/4 or 1/3 of total contract as so many key player contracts seem to include these days.

4) For all any of us know, it could well be a contract worth 5-6 mill a year. There's been higher numbers relating to Cruz' "demands" thrown around on this board, but they are 100% without merit--zero sources to support such claims.

Flip Empty
01-12-2013, 11:47 PM
he wants 8-10 million a year.
Do you have a source that isn't a speculative report?

ShakeandBake
01-12-2013, 11:47 PM
he wants 8-10 million a year.

..................

Rat_bastich
01-13-2013, 01:26 AM
..................

I know it goes back to that...I loosely term it...article again doesn't it? Damn you RF...damn youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu and your technology!!!!!

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 06:59 AM
he wants 8-10 million a year.

Funny though, we can't seem to find any remarks by Cruz or his handlers that mention a dollar figure. The figure you mention was a guess by a media head

ShakeandBake
01-13-2013, 11:15 AM
I know it goes back to that...I loosely term it...article again doesn't it? Damn you RF...damn youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu and your technology!!!!!

Exactly, I blame Roanoke for this mess as well

BlueReign
01-13-2013, 11:29 AM
Don't want to see Cruz go, pay the man! With that being said, we also need to pay Nicks whom which Cruz' success is predicated from.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 12:29 PM
Exactly, I blame Roanoke for this mess as well

I refuse to be responsible for others' reading comprehension skills!

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 12:30 PM
Don't want to see Cruz go, pay the man! With that being said, we also need to pay Nicks whom which Cruz' success is predicated from.

Luckily, we don't have to worry about Nicks until this time next year

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 02:56 PM
241--

1) You again imply Cruz is not an extraordinary find by the Giants org when you state "Cruz was UDFA remember", as if any team can come with such a find, in any given season following the draft. Well no, they can't. Why do you think he received so much attention by the end of last year? In part because he did make some fantastic plays like his first career TD, vs Namdi, the juggle TD catch vs Seattle, and of course the 99 yarder Christmas Eve. But another big reason, not to be diminished, was because he was that good and because he'd been snubbed by the NFL Combine and had been overlooked by 31 other teams.

2) It doesn't matter what you--or any of us--would be "happy" to pay Cruz. It's a market place, and Cruz will justifiably look for a contract that adequately reflects the value he believes he gives the team, and in the context of what other receivers are getting that rank close to him. On the other hand, Cruz has gone out of his way to say publicly how much he wants to continue with the Giants, and that can make a difference in negotiations. And I believe him.

3) I happen to think he's not interested in "breaking the bank", but he does deserve a competitive contract--in terms of length and/or annual average with probably a guarantee of 1/4 or 1/3 of total contract as so many key player contracts seem to include these days.

4) For all any of us know, it could well be a contract worth 5-6 mill a year. There's been higher numbers relating to Cruz' "demands" thrown around on this board, but they are 100% without merit--zero sources to support such claims.

1) marshall 4th round
houzh 7th
jennings 2nd
nelson 2nd
austin udfa
jackson 2nd
welker udfa
colston 7th
steve smith (panthers) 3rd
And a bunch of other late 1st round picks are great recievers. it's not hard to find WR talent in the NFL.

Doesn't matter for the rest, you basically made the same points. I don't think Cruz's play this year justifies him getting a big contract,
If they give him 5-6 million a year with the garunteed money not huge then I'd be happy with how Reese handled it.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 02:58 PM
241--

1) You again imply Cruz is not an extraordinary find by the Giants org when you state "Cruz was UDFA remember", as if any team can come with such a find, in any given season following the draft. Well no, they can't. Why do you think he received so much attention by the end of last year? In part because he did make some fantastic plays like his first career TD, vs Namdi, the juggle TD catch vs Seattle, and of course the 99 yarder Christmas Eve. But another big reason, not to be diminished, was because he was that good and because he'd been snubbed by the NFL Combine and had been overlooked by 31 other teams.

2) It doesn't matter what you--or any of us--would be "happy" to pay Cruz. It's a market place, and Cruz will justifiably look for a contract that adequately reflects the value he believes he gives the team, and in the context of what other receivers are getting that rank close to him. On the other hand, Cruz has gone out of his way to say publicly how much he wants to continue with the Giants, and that can make a difference in negotiations. And I believe him.

3) I happen to think he's not interested in "breaking the bank", but he does deserve a competitive contract--in terms of length and/or annual average with probably a guarantee of 1/4 or 1/3 of total contract as so many key player contracts seem to include these days.

4) For all any of us know, it could well be a contract worth 5-6 mill a year. There's been higher numbers relating to Cruz' "demands" thrown around on this board, but they are 100% without merit--zero sources to support such claims.


FINALLY

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 03:02 PM
Youre only as good as your last season.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 03:03 PM
Being at a skill position like wr and rb that is.. qb's are more consistent but wr's and rb's can have one bad year and drop off quickly.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 03:03 PM
or one bad injury.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 03:34 PM
But that hasn't happened with Cruz and he's already set records in his first season. Your logic is silly, as Cruz is hands down the most explosive WR we've ever had. The Giants have always had possession receivers, I can't remember the last explosive WR we've had, possibly Stephen Baker but that was a long long time ago. Just admit it, you don't like Cruz because of all his commercials and publicity, not because you honestly think he's easily replaceable.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 04:03 PM
I don't care about his first season it's irellevant, Plaxico Burress had a good 2007-2008 year for us, should we sign him? And no, we haven't had a lot of good receivers period.

RoanokeFan
01-13-2013, 04:06 PM
I don't care about his first season it's irellevant, Plaxico Burress had a good 2007-2008 year for us, should we sign him? And no, we haven't had a lot of good receivers period.

His whole body of work will determine what the offer will be. That includes back to back 1,000+ yards season, Pro Bowl selection, his drop issues, and his chemistry with Eli. Nothing is irrelevant.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 04:16 PM
He had an off year this year without Nicks commanding attention as he does when he's healthy. Cruz benefits off Nicks and didn't have a great season like the year before, he can't carry the load like Nicks did once.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 04:29 PM
He had an off year this year without Nicks commanding attention as he does when he's healthy. Cruz benefits off Nicks and didn't have a great season like the year before, he can't carry the load like Nicks did once.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Jack-Donaghy-Facepalm.gif

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 04:37 PM
Are you saying Cruz had a better year than the 1st year when Nicks was healthy?

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 04:38 PM
Are you saying Cruz had a better year than the 1st year when Nicks was healthy? He's a slot receiver, of course he'd benefit from a healthy first stringer..

You just can't admit that you're wrong and now it's gotten out of hand.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 04:51 PM
He had 4 more catches.. but had 12 more targets. 500 less yards, 30 less yards per game, 6 less yards per catch, 7 less first downs, only 3.8 YAC after having over 7 last year.

Some more stats.

3 21 vs bal
3 15 vs atl
6 42 vs car
2 23 vs dal
3 26 cin
3 36 gb
4 52 phil

racked up 644 of his yards in only 5 games (Biggest game being the one where Nicks was healhty)
3/10 tds one game vs browns (only 50 yards in that game)

only 2 games like that in 2011 vs buf 2 12 and vs was 5 44

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:03 PM
Funny how people forget how big Cruz was for us last year, and the game he had in San Fran. I'll bet my life he stays, sorry OP. Man it's going to be a long six months.

Flip Empty
01-13-2013, 05:04 PM
He had 4 more catches.. but had 12 more targets. 500 less yards, 30 less yards per game, 6 less yards per catch, 7 less first downs, only 3.8 YAC after having over 7 last year.

Some more stats.

3 21 vs bal
3 15 vs atl
6 42 vs car
2 23 vs dal
3 26 cin
3 36 gb
4 52 phil

racked up 644 of his yards in only 5 games (Biggest game being the one where Nicks was healhty)
3/10 tds one game vs browns (only 50 yards in that game)

only 2 games like that in 2011 vs buf 2 12 and vs was 5 44
How many games did his quarterback stink up?

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 05:06 PM
How many games did his quarterback stink up? His argument is that he's a better WR when Nicks is healthy uhhh duh? LOL Nicks is a first stringer and a dominating WR. It's like saying Eli Manning is better when Nicks is in or when Cruz is in. It's honestly a silly argument.

NorwoodBlue
01-13-2013, 05:08 PM
Cruz without Nicks is not pretty. He can't handle the extra attention he gets without a healthy Nicks on the field. I don't think it's written in stone that we resign Cruz. He might cost way too much for his level of talent. I think keeping him is a 50/50 proposition at this point. He needs to understand that he's benefited from Nicks a whole bunch, and if he prices himself out of the market, he'll be playing for some team with no other good recievers, and maybe not even a viable QB. I could see his career going down the tubes if he goes to the wrong team. JR might be thinkig the same because they weren't willing to throw a pile of oey at him last year to extend his contract. He is, after all, a UFA who appears to need a Nicks type reciever on the field with him to be effective. And Reuben Randle has shown some pretty good talent. Randle and Nicks could really give people fits.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:09 PM
I'm saying he didn't have as good of a year as he did last year, infact he didn't have a "great" year at all looking closely at his stats.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:09 PM
Without Nicks, he is not a top 5 wide reciever.. or top 7.

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:10 PM
Cruz without Nicks is not pretty. He can't handle the extra attention he gets without a healthy Nicks on the field. I don't think it's written in stone that we resign Cruz. He might cost way too much for his level of talent. I think keeping him is a 50/50 proposition at this point. He needs to understand that he's benefited from Nicks a whole bunch, and if he prices himself out of the market, he'll be playing for some team with no other good recievers, and maybe not even a viable QB. I could see his career going down the tubes if he goes to the wrong team. JR might be thinkig the same because they weren't willing to throw a pile of oey at him last year to extend his contract. He is, after all, a UFA who appears to need a Nicks type reciever on the field with him to be effective. And Reuben Randle has shown some pretty good talent. Randle and Nicks could really give people fits.Come dude he had a 1000 yard season...Maybe he would've been more effective with Randle out there then Nicks. It's not Cruz's fault he was double teamed almost every play.

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:10 PM
Without Nicks, he is not a top 5 wide reciever.. or top 7.Yeah ok.....

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 05:12 PM
Yeah ok..... I'm starting to wonder if he's actually Giggles.

JayMas9
01-13-2013, 05:12 PM
Guy had 1100 yds and 10 tds...without Nicks, pretty darn impressive.

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:14 PM
Guy had 1100 yds and 10 tds...without Nicks, pretty darn impressive.exactly...

Eliscruzzz
01-13-2013, 05:14 PM
I'm starting to wonder if he's actually Giggles.I know right.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:16 PM
failed to score in 8/16 games
only scored multiple tds in a game once
4% down in catch rate (64-60)

welker a slot reciever like cruz had 67%.
Only played like a top 10 wr in 5/16 games.
..Not worth the big money.

Just said he had 3 of the 10 td's vs a lowly browns team in which he only got 50 yards that game.

gmen46
01-13-2013, 05:16 PM
1) marshall 4th round
houzh 7th
jennings 2nd
nelson 2nd
austin udfa
jackson 2nd
welker udfa
colston 7th
steve smith (panthers) 3rd
And a bunch of other late 1st round picks are great recievers. it's not hard to find WR talent in the NFL.

Doesn't matter for the rest, you basically made the same points. I don't think Cruz's play this year justifies him getting a big contract,
If they give him 5-6 million a year with the garunteed money not huge then I'd be happy with how Reese handled it.

You're now arguing against yourself, so it's time to shut you and your absurdity down.

You say--in so many words--that WRs of Cruz' caliber are a dime a dozen, "not hard to find" in your very own nonsensical words. Then you say you'd "be happy" if we give Cruz $5-6 mil a year". Aside from the super stars like Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald--and a few grossly overpaid receivers like D Jackson--that's considered to be very big money for "not hard to replace WR talent".

So, he's either good enough to warrant a large contract worth 5-6 mil per year with a guarantee, or he's an easy to replace receiver. Which is it? He cannot be both.

As for your list of good-to great non-first round receivers--terrific, you came up with less than a dozen receivers who fit that mold--out of 12 drafts (Smith was drafted 2001).

By the way, Cruz has had substantially more yards and more TDs in his first 3 years (2628 yds, 19 TDs) than 3rd rd Steve Smith (Panthers) had in his first 3 years (2136 yds, 10 TDs), and Cruz did that while playing in 11 fewer games than did Smith in the same time frame.

And, Oh yeah, with 11 fewer games and 9 fewer starts in their respective first 3 years, Cruz has 4 more TDs than did Brandon Marshall, with only 271 fewer yards. UDFA has a superior 3 year beginning to his career than these 3rd and 4th rd--and long time WR super stars--spending all but his first 3-4 games rookie year on IR. And you think Cruz is easily replaceable.

Don't like that comparison, comparing apples to oranges, maybe? Let's compare the first 3 seasons of the 2 UDFA receivers on your list, highly respected receivers today and over past several years-----

Miles Austin--played in or suited up 37 games, 0 starts, total 354 yards in 3 years, 3 TDs

Wes Welker--played in or suited up 31 games, 1 start, total 434 yards in 3 years, 0 TDs

Victor Cruz--played in or suited up 35 games, 23 starts, total 2628 yards in 3 years, 19 TDs

Cruz will get paid.
And he will get paid by the Giants.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:19 PM
5-6 million a year is not that uncommon this year for a player like Cruz.. he is a good slot reciever and benefits only when Nicks recieves attention. If you see I said he shouldn't a lot of garunteed money. If we gave him 4 year 20 million deal 5 garunteed i'd be happy.

Go look at my stats, Cruz had a very off here this year.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:20 PM
You are just a clueless "omg cruz is so good hes so explosive best slot in the league omg" when really he didnt have that good of a year, lol, a few break out games but the rest have been average or abysmall.

Mod_C
01-13-2013, 05:34 PM
You are just a clueless "omg cruz is so good hes so explosive best slot in the league omg" when really he didnt have that good of a year, lol, a few break out games but the rest have been average or abysmall.

We're running out of meaningful NEW conversation here, yes?

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 05:35 PM
We're running out of meaningful NEW conversation here, yes? AHHAHAH

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:41 PM
If you're trying to say Miles Austin, Wes Welker, Steve Smith, Brandon Marshall, Jennings, Nelson, Colston wouldn't step in here and be football players that can score 10 tds and get 1000 yards you're nuts lol. And you're crazy comparing the first 3 seasons, who cares? Wes Welker is a far more accomplished WR than Cruz is right now.

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
I can't believe people really think that a player who gave us 1000 yards and 10 tds is irreplaceable.

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 05:42 PM
Wes Welker also has played more seasons than Cruz. Your argument is still flawed..why don't you just admit you're wrong?

Giantsfan241
01-13-2013, 05:45 PM
So what if he has played more seasons? There's no point in comparing their first 3 seasons if they barely played.. 19 starts to 1 start.. really?

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-13-2013, 05:57 PM
I can't believe people really think that a player who gave us 1000 yards and 10 tds is irreplaceable. He broke Toomer's record for a reason. He has pure talent, and his story of coming up from nothing is great for this organization. Whether you like it or not, he's going to remain a Giant and deserves a big pay day.

You compared Randle's one game performance against Victor Cruz' two break out seasons and don't want to acknowledge that Wes Welker is also playing with one of the best QB's to play the game and has more seasons under his belt. Before he was with Brady he did NOTHING, and he was having contract disputes for a reason.

Who will we go for in the free agency to replace Cruz simple because you think we should be cheap and not give him the money he deserves? Because you know, you can't tell me someone out of the draft can replace Cruz because that's just asinine. Cruz is young and has plenty of room to develop into one of the best slot receivers.He brings a spark to the Giants offense that we haven't had since Nick's rookie season..

gmen46
01-13-2013, 06:42 PM
You are just a clueless "omg cruz is so good hes so explosive best slot in the league omg" when really he didnt have that good of a year, lol, a few break out games but the rest have been average or abysmall.

All right, I'm done arguing with a complete tool. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. This board knows it. And the Giants organization doesn't give a **** about your ****eyed thinking on this matter.

But, can't help myself--Question, first. How many back-to-back thousand yard receivers have the Giants had in last 13 years (when the NFL began to become "a passing league"and passing yards overall began to increase)?

Toomer (5 years, his 4th-8th seasons 1999-2003)

Nicks (2 years, his 2nd-3rd seasons)

Cruz (2 years, his 2nd-3rd seasons and counting

That's it.

Even Burress did not put back-to-back 1000 yard seasons together for the Giants. He did it once, early in his career for the Steelers. But not with us.

You say Look at your stats? Why? Here's the thing. You don't know their meaning to a team.

You obviously don't know, so I'll tell you: opposing teams study upcoming opponents. If you did not anticipate that Cruz' ave yds per catch would decrease this year from last year, then you need some lessons in how teams prepare for star players.

You dismiss the fact that in spite of Nicks missing games or playing with injured foot and knee every week after Week Two, and in spite of the fact that even if Nicks played healthy most of the season Cruz would still have drawn closer, double, at times triple coverage all season long, Cruz had more receptions and 1 more TD than in 2011.

Yeah, everybody and his mother knows Cruz had over 1500 yards last year, and nearly 1100 yards this year. So you noticed that too. So astute of you. But you seem to not realize that 1500 yards for WRs is still a pretty rare phenomenon. Very few WRs that do achieve that, do so on a repeated basis, or even ever again. It's the equivalent to a RB gaining 2000 yards in a season. Very few have done it, and none--except maybe ****erson??--repeat that. Does that mean those few RBs should be released or allowed to go into FA their 4th year because they did not repeat 2000 yards? (I'll answer for you---"NO").

How many 1500+ yard seasons has the mighty (the consensus Best Receiver Today) Calvin Johnson had ? Two. The last 2 seasons, his 5th and 6th seasons. And Calvin set a new NFL record in yards in a season, to accomplish that rare feat of a second 1500+ consecutive season.

How many 1500+ yard seasons has Larry Fitzgerald had? NONE. ZERO. NADA. ZILCH. He did have 3 seasons with barely 1400+, though, including 2011. And he's been considered among the best 2 or 3 receivers in the league the last 8 years. But guess what? This year he dropped from 1411 yards, 17.6 ave, and 8 TDs in 2011 to 798 yards, 11.2 ave, and 4 TDs in 2012. I guess AZ will release him and his $15+ million per year contract, huh?

How many has Welker had? One, in 2011.

And, yes, Cruz is considered to be one of the best 2-3 slot receivers in the game today. That entails being reliable, and the ability to make clutch receptions when needed, not lots of yards necessarily.

You are focusing on 1 stat and 1 stat only, to the exclusion of every other important aspect of a receiver's worth to a team. That 1100 yards is not as good as 1500 yards. Forget that 1000+ yards is an important contribution to a team's offense. Forget he had more TDs than last year (even though it's one, it's still more). Forget that even though Cruz had far more attention paid to him this year, for all 16 games, he had more receptions. Forget that very few WRs have the same yards every game--Cruz is the only excellent (and, yes, he is excellent at his job) receiver to have more yards one game than he does the next, according to your criteria.

And I'M the "clueless" one.

Well, prepare to be upset this off season. Because Cruz will get paid, he will get paid well, and he will be paid by the Giants.

A M F and peace out.