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View Full Version : The offseason for Tuck.



Buddy333
01-17-2013, 11:11 AM
So it's easy to pick on the guy for his play the last couple of years with the exception of last years playoff run, but he may have some health issues. He used to be one of the best at his position. That could also be what seems to be bringing him down. Shoulder injuries are for real and take time to heal. More time than just the offseason. So, he had some work done last offseason. Any word on this offseason? He banged it up a bit this year. Just think that maybe if he rehabs it in he offseason and starts the season on IR maybe he will be closer to 100% by the time he comes back. The point is that he has not had the luxury of getting that shoulder fully healed and at his position he needs a healthy shoulder.

Rudyy
01-17-2013, 11:18 AM
Does anybody know that it is in fact his shoulder that's causing his decline in play? Why does he keep playing when he knows he should be healing?
Not just him, but many injured players on the team as well (Nicks).

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 11:22 AM
All players want to believe they can come bak sooner. Some do. Usually shoulders take a while to rehab. It also depends on the position they play. As a DE/DT he needs that shoulder more than say a CB. He has to push off guys bigger than he is.

Rudyy
01-17-2013, 11:26 AM
All players want to believe they can come bak sooner. Some do. Usually shoulders take a while to rehab. It also depends on the position they play. As a DE/DT he needs that shoulder more than say a CB. He has to push off guys bigger than he is.I agree, but that doesn't mean they can come back sooner. What I'm getting at is if someone is suffering a lingering injury, he needs to sit and get healthy. Ojomo or somebody might have gotten a few reps while JT was recovering.

If Tuck does in fact have an injury, I hope he recovers..not sure if he's returning but it sucks that he's continually hurt.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 11:29 AM
Right, so that's why maybe they start the season with him on IR so that he has more time to fully heal.

Rudyy
01-17-2013, 11:31 AM
Right, so that's why maybe they start the season with him on IR so that he has more time to fully heal.But do we even know if he's injured?

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 11:33 AM
Well he had some work done on it last off season and he dinged it up late this season. That shoulder has been an issue since 2009.

BlueReign
01-17-2013, 11:42 AM
But do we even know if he's injured?
WE don't. But I'm sure the FO knows.

big blue dog
01-17-2013, 11:45 AM
his shoulder has been bad sinse flozell dirt bag adams tripped him tuck is a warrior and he will give all he has but shoulders are tough and can be debilatating at times i had one and it never got all the way right

BigBlue1971
01-17-2013, 11:52 AM
along with whatever injuries he has i think Tuck is just wearing down! and those injuries are the major contributor to him wearing down!

hes had a great career for the Giants but i doubt he starts again!

GameTime
01-17-2013, 11:59 AM
dont forget.....most players do hit the wall at some time. Either physically or mentally. It takes more then just being "not injured" to play good NFL caliber football. It takes desire and passion. He may be out of that......

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 12:02 PM
dont forget.....most players do hit the wall at some time. Either physically or mentally. It takes more then just being "not injured" to play good NFL caliber football. It takes desire and passion. He may be out of that......Maybe some of that is due to his inability to play at the high level he once did? What if his shoulder is the issue and he just needs to get it right?

JesseJames
01-17-2013, 12:07 PM
I think this off season Tuck just needs to figure out whether he wants to continue playing football and if so he has to come back with a new attitude and prove that he wants to help the team

Ruttiger711
01-17-2013, 12:28 PM
I think this off season Tuck just needs to figure out whether he wants to continue playing football and if so he has to come back with a new attitude and prove that he wants to help the team

ESPECIALLY if he wants to continue beyound next year... he'll be a free agent and if he wants a nice new contract from the Giants or anyone else for that matter he needs to put some recent quality play on film.

big blue dog
01-17-2013, 12:29 PM
if he didnt want to play he would not play injured week in and week out he might need less plays but i think he still has plenty left if he is handled correctly.Maybe a little less dt .

giantsfan420
01-17-2013, 12:33 PM
i just think its the mileage, and thats kinda shocking bc Tuck spent much of his career as a depth guy (altho he was used often). Its not just physical, its mental as well with his comments about rgknee.

what Id do if i was in charge, would be to decide which aspect tuck has the most impact on w/l. Meaning, Tuck has been historically awesome vs the run. hes also been very effective as a pass rusher. TC/PF need to decide in what aspect Tuck will become situational, vs the run or vs the pass. IMO, he cannot perform both at a high level hes shown previously. His body and mind imo are too tired id guess the word is.

But vs Philly last week of season, Tuck was used as a situational guy with the fewest snaps he played in a game he was activated all season. And he had by far his best game, he was actually disrupting phillys offense, and wreaking havoc.

GameTime
01-17-2013, 12:36 PM
Maybe some of that is due to his inability to play at the high level he once did? What if his shoulder is the issue and he just needs to get it right?
Could be....I am sure many things are invloved in a pro athletes mind over matter issues.

big blue dog
01-17-2013, 12:51 PM
thats what im talking about less snaps might mean more quality the key will be getting some one else who can do what he does in the run game.

RoanokeFan
01-17-2013, 01:02 PM
Does anybody know that it is in fact his shoulder that's causing his decline in play? Why does he keep playing when he knows he should be healing?
Not just him, but many injured players on the team as well (Nicks).

It's not just here, players on every team do it, they're proud of it. Look at RG III. It's like a right of passage.

RoanokeFan
01-17-2013, 01:05 PM
Could be....I am sure many things are invloved in a pro athletes mind over matter issues.

I still think part of it is his justifiable concern about his neck that surfaced last (2011) season. He went into a funk, which he later admitted, and wasn't playing and when he did played scared, which he also admitted.

There's no reason to not believe his shoulder was an issue but he needs to get it taken care of now, before the season starts and we go through another 16 lackluster performances.

nhpgiantsfan
01-17-2013, 01:33 PM
So it's easy to pick on the guy for his play the last couple of years with the exception of last years playoff run, but he may have some health issues. He used to be one of the best at his position. That could also be what seems to be bringing him down. Shoulder injuries are for real and take time to heal. More time than just the offseason. So, he had some work done last offseason. Any word on this offseason? He banged it up a bit this year. Just think that maybe if he rehabs it in he offseason and starts the season on IR maybe he will be closer to 100% by the time he comes back. The point is that he has not had the luxury of getting that shoulder fully healed and at his position he needs a healthy shoulder.

I don't buy this for one second. There was no mention of an injury for most of the season until like the last 3 weeks when he missed a game. Nor did he ever even show up on an injury report.

Why do people want to kill Osi for his bad play, yet make excuses for Tuck's bad play.

Rudyy
01-17-2013, 01:36 PM
It's not just here, players on every team do it, they're proud of it. Look at RG III. It's like a right of passage.I know. I'm just saying it hurts them more when they keep playing injured because they never fully healed.

bearbryant
01-17-2013, 01:52 PM
So some self actualization will go a long way in helping JT see what lies ahead. He hasn't been the same since the injury and the foul by Adams ( that POS). He needs to look at all sides of his football career and identify if he can perform and if he still wants to perform in the NFL. I'm a Tuck fan and want him to come back and play as good as he can. I'm also aware that football is a game that demands its combatants to be physically, mentally and spiritually ready for the process. We'll see whether or not JT still has what it takes no matter what he discovers. Go Giants!

Ruttiger711
01-17-2013, 02:17 PM
I don't buy this for one second. There was no mention of an injury for most of the season until like the last 3 weeks when he missed a game. Nor did he ever even show up on an injury report.

Why do people want to kill Osi for his bad play, yet make excuses for Tuck's bad play.

Because Osi threw tantrums and wanted more money for his bad play.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 02:51 PM
Not making excuses for him. Shoulder injuries are very tough. He has never had more than 6 months to recover from his shoulder injuries and that might be why every year he is still having the issue.

NWKEffectElement
01-17-2013, 03:13 PM
Just retire then and stop stealing money. He seems to be holding off the inevitable to maintain those checks.

njersey
01-17-2013, 03:34 PM
Does anybody know that it is in fact his shoulder that's causing his decline in play? Why does he keep playing when he knows he should be healing?
Not just him, but many injured players on the team as well (Nicks).

It may have been that his shoulder prevented him from getting into football shape in the first place. He looked gassed all year, like he was never in shape.

G14ntzF4π
01-17-2013, 03:55 PM
I would like to see him traded

sharick88
01-17-2013, 04:56 PM
Reading through this thread, a lot of people are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of injuries. My response to that is that if he isn't that effective or healthy enough to play, why continue putting him out there and scratching him a paycheck? He's paid to perform and these last two seasons, for the most part, he hasn't. IMO, he's just not a 4 down player anymore. Injuries have derailed him. Therefore, I feel the giants need to go get someone else to start opposite JPP at DE.

Rudyy
01-17-2013, 05:02 PM
Reading through this thread, a lot of people are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of injuries. My response to that is that if he isn't that effective or healthy enough to play, why continue putting him out there and scratching him a paycheck? He's paid to perform and these last two seasons, for the most part, he hasn't. IMO, he's just not a 4 down player anymore. Injuries have derailed him. Therefore, I feel the giants need to go get someone else to start opposite JPP at DE.Yeah. I don't think it's just injuries, other things have factored in his decline.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 05:11 PM
Reading through this thread, a lot of people are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of injuries. My response to that is that if he isn't that effective or healthy enough to play, why continue putting him out there and scratching him a paycheck? He's paid to perform and these last two seasons, for the most part, he hasn't. IMO, he's just not a 4 down player anymore. Injuries have derailed him. Therefore, I feel the giants need to go get someone else to start opposite JPP at DE.This is a Championship coaching staff but even they make mistakes. See playing Nicks before the bye this year. Just saying, the average person takes a while to heal. He is not the average guy. He has to play professional football. That's why maybe they need to get him the best therapy in the offseason and they IR him so he can heal even more. Under the new IR rules can't they leave him there for like 6 weeks?

nhpgiantsfan
01-17-2013, 05:33 PM
This is a Championship coaching staff but even they make mistakes. See playing Nicks before the bye this year. Just saying, the average person takes a while to heal. He is not the average guy. He has to play professional football. That's why maybe they need to get him the best therapy in the offseason and they IR him so he can heal even more. Under the new IR rules can't they leave him there for like 6 weeks?

Heal up from what injury exactly? You are inventing an injury. He missed one game with a shoulder injury. Has the team announced that Tuck has a lingering shoulder injury or is this just your speculation. Now, you are calling for him to go on the new IR, next year??? What's the injury.

How about we let the real Doctors diagnose, and treat our players, and decide how long they need to recover.

BlueBlooded1979
01-17-2013, 05:35 PM
Football players are trained to play through pain. It is the job of the coaching staff, FO and medical staff to determine how efective a guy will be with their degree of injuries. If he were done then they woud have cut him and stopped paying him (since everyone seems so concerned with that). The fact is that maybe he is injured and maybe he is declining. Not everyone is built to endured a 10-12 year career in the NFL and JT has 8 years in. Six of them as a full time player. If he needs to be on a snap count going forward that may give him a few more years. His salary next year is 4.5 million which isn't that bad for a veteran DE that gives you 30 snaps a game. I think his days as a DT in nickel are over. Too much abuse on his shoulder.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 05:38 PM
He had a torn labrum and it can take a while to fully heal. He has never had a long period of time to rest it. Just throwing it out there that maybe he has never fully healed. Maybe with a little extra time he can feel a lot better especially for the end of the season.

Rudyy
01-17-2013, 05:50 PM
He had a torn labrum and it can take a while to fully heal. He has never had a long period of time to rest it. Just throwing it out there that maybe he has never fully healed. Maybe with a little extra time he can feel a lot better especially for the end of the season.So knowing that, why didn't he tell anyone about this injury and that he couldn't play?

jomo
01-17-2013, 05:54 PM
Two years in a row of sub-par (being kind because I like and respect him) performance. He is taking up too much cap space and we should not risk a 3rd year of weak prodcution at those numbers. He either needs to be paid like his film says he should be paid or we need to move on. We've got too many things to fix this off season to risk a third year of wasted money on an aging and mostly injured DL. Sorry, it is just business JT.

JesseJames
01-17-2013, 06:02 PM
I have to believe that the coaching staff all saw what we did in Tucks play these last 2 seasons and should have given Tracy or Ojomo a lot more playing time this year...

jomo
01-17-2013, 06:04 PM
I have to believe that the coaching staff all saw what we did in Tucks play these last 2 seasons and should have given Tracy or Ojomo a lot more playing time this year...I'll grant you that they know much better than we do, which player gives them the best shot for success but he was so obviously hurting and strugging at times this year.

nhpgiantsfan
01-17-2013, 07:26 PM
He had a torn labrum and it can take a while to fully heal. He has never had a long period of time to rest it. Just throwing it out there that maybe he has never fully healed. Maybe with a little extra time he can feel a lot better especially for the end of the season.

He had surgery for the labrum injury in Jan 2010. That is not a two year injury.

joemorrisforprez
01-17-2013, 09:15 PM
I agree, but that doesn't mean they can come back sooner. What I'm getting at is if someone is suffering a lingering injury, he needs to sit and get healthy. Ojomo or somebody might have gotten a few reps while JT was recovering.

If Tuck does in fact have an injury, I hope he recovers..not sure if he's returning but it sucks that he's continually hurt.

That was my biggest rap against the coaching staff this year....they really leaned on veterans that had no gas in the tank.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 09:44 PM
He had surgery for the labrum injury in Jan 2010. That is not a two year injury.No but it takes longer than the offseason to fully heal. So when he started playing he probably was not 100%. By the end of the season he had probably set it back even further. Then he has a short time off and starts using it again.

nhpgiantsfan
01-17-2013, 09:53 PM
you're really giving him a pass here.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 09:58 PM
Never said it was the reason, just possibly a reason. Maybe he's done. Just saying he has never given that injury the time it needs to fully heal.

jomo
01-17-2013, 10:04 PM
Never said it was the reason, just possibly a reason. Maybe he's done. Just saying he has never given that injury the time it needs to fully heal.No you said it was the reason.

Buddy333
01-17-2013, 10:07 PM
No, said he may have some health issues.

JJC7301
01-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Whatever with Tuck. I'm so over him. He was never the same ever since he first injured in shoulder a few years ago when that 'boy o-linemane pushed him from behind.

joemorrisforprez
01-17-2013, 10:56 PM
Whatever with Tuck. I'm so over him. He was never the same ever since he first injured in shoulder a few years ago when that 'boy o-linemane pushed him from behind.

I'm not expecting anything other than what we saw in 2011 and 2012..... a flash here and there of that dominant 2007 form.....but mostly, a lot of head-hanging.

Ruttiger711
01-17-2013, 11:17 PM
I'm not expecting anything other than what we saw in 2011 and 2012..... a flash here and there of that dominant 2007 form.....but mostly, a lot of head-hanging.Tuck was rotated in, played a heck of a lot less snaps and played a lot of DT in 07. Maybe he'd be more effective back inside again.

JJC7301
01-17-2013, 11:51 PM
Tuck was rotated in, played a heck of a lot less snaps and played a lot of DT in 07. Maybe he'd be more effective back inside again.
I always thought that he was best on the inside, with JPP/Strahan and Osi on the outside.

I'd keep him around for 1 more year because we need the depth, but I have low expectations.

Rat_bastich
01-18-2013, 12:22 AM
If you are a leader and you are playing with an injury that is hurting the team, then you suck as a leader. Team and mission comes first and if you are a detriment you know that you step out of the way and play leader by coaching. I don't believe it was an injury that kept him out, I think it was a serious decline in ability.

Buddy333
01-18-2013, 06:38 AM
Sometimes a player needs to be sat down. A lot of players would not take themselves out of a game. Look at Nicks. He was clearly not the same player but he couldn't wait to get back. This is where the coaching stag probably wishes they could have a do over. They should have sat Nicks this year. Maybe this simply a case of Tuck getting football old. Don't know.

nhpgiantsfan
01-18-2013, 10:23 AM
If you are a leader and you are playing with an injury that is hurting the team, then you suck as a leader. Team and mission comes first and if you are a detriment you know that you step out of the way and play leader by coaching. I don't believe it was an injury that kept him out, I think it was a serious decline in ability.

Agreed.. Tuck was one of my favorite players. But I really just don't think he has it anymore. I think a lot of people here just like him so much, which is fine, and understandable, that they are just looking to make excuses for him. As far as I am concerned if you are suiting up and playing and you are not on the injury report, then I don't want to hear about your injuries after you have a bad season.

JesseJames
01-18-2013, 11:14 AM
Reading through this thread, a lot of people are giving him the benefit of the doubt because of injuries. My response to that is that if he isn't that effective or healthy enough to play, why continue putting him out there and scratching him a paycheck? He's paid to perform and these last two seasons, for the most part, he hasn't. IMO, he's just not a 4 down player anymore. Injuries have derailed him. Therefore, I feel the giants need to go get someone else to start opposite JPP at DE. agree completely

TuckandRolle
01-18-2013, 11:51 AM
Thread makes no sense, Tuck is not starting the season on IR. He has a full off season to rest.

TroyArcher
01-18-2013, 12:42 PM
Well with no playoffs this year he will have an extra month and a half to heal.

sharick88
01-18-2013, 05:18 PM
Thread makes no sense, Tuck is not starting the season on IR. He has a full off season to rest.

We said that last year as well. How has that worked out?

sharick88
01-18-2013, 05:21 PM
This is a Championship coaching staff but even they make mistakes. See playing Nicks before the bye this year. Just saying, the average person takes a while to heal. He is not the average guy. He has to play professional football. That's why maybe they need to get him the best therapy in the offseason and they IR him so he can heal even more. Under the new IR rules can't they leave him there for like 6 weeks?

I agree with you mostly. I just think that his days as a 4 down player are numbered. We could make use of him as a situational player. An overpaid one, but aren't all athletes overpaid anyways.

sharick88
01-18-2013, 05:22 PM
Two years in a row of sub-par (being kind because I like and respect him) performance. He is taking up too much cap space and we should not risk a 3rd year of weak prodcution at those numbers. He either needs to be paid like his film says he should be paid or we need to move on. We've got too many things to fix this off season to risk a third year of wasted money on an aging and mostly injured DL. Sorry, it is just business JT.

Amazing post. I wonder what kind of cap hit would it be to cut him? Anyways, if we're stuck with him, might as well put him to use as a player that comes in on passing downs whose sole purpose in life is to get to the QB.

JesseJames
01-18-2013, 05:59 PM
Amazing post. I wonder what kind of cap hit would it be to cut him? Anyways, if we're stuck with him, might as well put him to use as a player that comes in on passing downs whose sole purpose in life is to get to the QB. I would rather see Tuck sit on passing downs since his sacks have dropped so much and he is much better at stopping the run

Buddy333
01-18-2013, 11:10 PM
I agree with you mostly. I just think that his days as a 4 down player are numbered. We could make use of him as a situational player. An overpaid one, but aren't all athletes overpaid anyways.Eh, $4.5 million is not that much as long as he can still play he run well and possibly get to the QB once in a while. They will have to limit his reps.