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View Full Version : Why does Eli Manning have something to prove?



Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 10:50 PM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-20-2013, 10:52 PM
because they have no idea how lucky we are to have him, and when he is gone the same fans will be crying how much the team misses him.

titwio
01-20-2013, 10:54 PM
I think the fans, the media, the skeptics all want to see the same thing from him....consistency.

AllHailEli
01-20-2013, 10:55 PM
He has nothing to prove, but it would be great to get a couple more Super Bowls with him at the helm. We know he has it in him, the rest of the team has to play better though.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 10:57 PM
because they have no idea how lucky we are to have him, and when he is gone the same fans will be crying how much the team misses him.


After suffering through the "Dave Brown years" why do you think Eli is not appreciated?

GiantRoc
01-20-2013, 10:58 PM
The only person he needs to prove anything to, is himself. He will never stop trying either. That's why he is as good as he is, and why his best is yet to come. This team has not even reached its full potential. Im looking forward to what they can do when we fill the holes.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-20-2013, 10:58 PM
Because they're dumb and will miss him when he's gone.


They wants QB's like Matt Ryan who are incredibly overrated.

Eli will never be fully appreciated by all of the fanbase.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:01 PM
He has nothing to prove, but it would be great to get a couple more Super Bowls with him at the helm. We know he has it in him, the rest of the team has to play better though.

I believe Eli expects more from himself and has more pride than you want to admit.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:01 PM
Because he doesnt throw for 5,000 yards every season with 40 touchdowns and have 4 MVPS.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:03 PM
Because he doesnt throw for 5,000 yards every season with 40 touchdowns and have 4 MVPS.

Okay Rudy. It's all about stats. Cool.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-20-2013, 11:03 PM
After suffering through the "Dave Brown years" why do you think Eli is not appreciated?

I don't think most fans understand how hard it is to play QB in the NFL. once you win a super bowl, or in eli's case multiple super bowls nothing short of greatness is accepted by them.

ashleymarie
01-20-2013, 11:04 PM
Because he wants Canton. So do the rest of us.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:07 PM
Okay Rudy. It's all about stats. Cool.I'm actually mocking what some people said on here believe it or not. Not those exact number per se, but in order to be elite, you must put up "elite numbers". Eli is not a stat guy, he will never be a stat guy. Stats alone do not make one a great quarterback. I know I'm ranting, but it had to be said.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:07 PM
Because he wants Canton. So do the rest of us.

What?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-20-2013, 11:07 PM
Because he wants Canton. So do the rest of us.

eli is at the front door now,,,a few more solid years and he should be in,,another super bowl and he is a lock.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:09 PM
Because he doesnt throw for 5,000 yards every season with 40 touchdowns and have 4 MVPS.Well you kind of got it but where a little extreme about it. He, like the entire team, is inconsistent. See the difference between he and Brady or Rogers? Their teams lost but not because of them. Don't think people want to run Eli out of town and most realize you can't win it every year but when you make a guy your $100 million franchise QB you would like more consistency and yes he needs to carry the team every year.

titwio
01-20-2013, 11:10 PM
They wants QB's like Matt Ryan who are incredibly overrated.


I don't think anyone wants that.

Cloud57
01-20-2013, 11:10 PM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?

The two SBs was a fluke he needs to win another SB to prove he's for real

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:11 PM
eli is at the front door now,,,a few more solid years and he should be in,,another super bowl and he is a lock.

This is exactly my point. Eli is most likely a lock for the HOF and will most likely set every Giant QB record. So why is it he's not appreciated by our core fans?

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:12 PM
Well you kind of got it but where a little extreme about it. He, like the entire team, is inconsistent. See the difference between he and Brady or Rogers? Their teams lost but not because of them. Don't think people want to run Eli out of town and most realize you can't win it every year but when you make a guy your $100 million franchise QB you would like more consistency and yes he needs to carry the team every year.So it's the team that let Brady and Rodgers down..but when we lose it's Eli? I don't understand that at all.

Drez
01-20-2013, 11:12 PM
This coming from a self-admitted Eli homer, seeing as we know how good he can be, we'd like to see him play that way all the time. Unfortunately, he does not. Some of it is on him, some of it isn't.

However, I think the basic premise is that people are spoiled.

Given the fact that he's played a major role in delivering 2 SBs for us, I'm happy that we have him. Even if we don't ever win another with him, I know that he gives us a great chance of winning games and being competitive.

Drez
01-20-2013, 11:13 PM
So it's the team that let Brady and Rodgers down..but when we lose it's Eli? I don't understand that at all.Yup. And when we win it's the team and not Eli.

titwio
01-20-2013, 11:14 PM
This is exactly my point. Eli is most likely a lock for the HOF and will most likely set every Giant QB record. So why is it he's not appreciated by our core fans?

Who doesn't appreciate him here? I know there's gripes and all as with every QB but, I haven't seen threads saying getting rid of him.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:14 PM
So it's the team that let Brady and Rodgers down..but when we lose it's Eli? I don't understand that at all.Eli did not play like Rogers or Brady this year. Those two QB's played well and carried their team all year. What did you see that makes you think they played poorly or where the reason they lost in the playoffs?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-20-2013, 11:15 PM
So it's the team that let Brady and Rodgers down..but when we lose it's Eli? I don't understand that at all.

maybe it's just me but aren't the two QB's you are comparing to Eli the same 2 Qb's Eli has beaten the last 5 times he faced them combined? just checking.

AllHailEli
01-20-2013, 11:16 PM
Don't worry about it. Check out the Patriots Message Board and Brady is getting killed. He was getting killed when he lost to the Giants too last season. Let's not even bring up when they lost in Super Bowl 42. Everybody gets criticized, I'm not sure if there's any player that does not.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:17 PM
Eli did not play like Rogers or Brady this year. Those two QB's played well and carried their team all year. What did you see that makes you think they played poorly or where the reason they lost in the playoffs?I never said they played poorly, yes they played well but that doesnt mean they get a pass for when they screw up. If you think so then okay, that's your opinion. Eli is inconsistent but to say he's the sole reason for our team losses is just expecting him to pull miracles like last year. Again, if that's how you look at it then that's fine.

giantsfan420
01-20-2013, 11:17 PM
he doesnt have a damn thing to prove. only "core" giant fans claiming he does have slanted agendas or motives and thus, will always require eli "prove" something to them. Its why people have accused those "core" fans as being the knee jerk, move the goal post back 10 yd type fans...

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:18 PM
maybe it's just me but aren't the two QB's you are comparing to Eli the same 2 Qb's Eli has beaten the last 5 times he faced them combined? just checking.I'm not comparing him to anyone actually. I'm saying there are always "Yeah buts" when it comes to other QB's. But to answer your question, yes he has outplayed them.

giantsfan420
01-20-2013, 11:19 PM
This coming from a self-admitted Eli homer, seeing as we know how good he can be, we'd like to see him play that way all the time. Unfortunately, he does not. Some of it is on him, some of it isn't.

However, I think the basic premise is that people are spoiled.

Given the fact that he's played a major role in delivering 2 SBs for us, I'm happy that we have him. Even if we don't ever win another with him, I know that he gives us a great chance of winning games and being competitive.nice post

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:20 PM
I also think people need to stop comparing him to every QB out there. Eli is not Brees, Rodgers, or Brady. Eli is Eli and he has been successful for this franchise and will continue to be. Yeah he can make boneheaded decisions but when it matters, he delivers. So to answer your question Rosie, he has nothing to prove.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:21 PM
I never said they played poorly, yes they played well but that doesnt mean they get a pass for when they screw up. If you think so then okay, that's your opinion. Eli is inconsistent but to say he's the sole reason for our team losses is just expecting him to pull miracles like last year. Again, if that's how you look at it then that's fine.Who said it was all his fault? Those other QB's have their bad games, but Eli has bad seasons.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:22 PM
Who doesn't appreciate him here? I know there's gripes and all as with every QB but, I haven't seen threads saying getting rid of him.

While guys like me, Morehead, Gumby and Harooni can be critical of his play at times, we ultimately appreciate the success he's helped us achieve. And we all realize that he will go down as an all-time Giant great.

But with that said, we have posters that truly do not like him. And I'm not talking about trolls. Eli has detractors despite our success.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:23 PM
Who said it was all his fault? Those other QB's have their bad games, but Eli has bad seasons.Do they have 2 Super Bowls? Again, if that's how you look at it then that's fine. To me, playing better than Eli doesn't mean they deserve a pass. Just how I look at it.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:23 PM
maybe it's just me but aren't the two QB's you are comparing to Eli the same 2 Qb's Eli has beaten the last 5 times he faced them combined? just checking.Eli has never and will never beat a QB unless he starts playing defense too.

gmenfan0488
01-20-2013, 11:23 PM
Consistency. We all know how good Eli CAN be. we just want to see it more often

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:24 PM
Do they have 2 Super Bowls? Again, if that's how you look at it then that's fine. To me, playing better than Eli doesn't mean they deserve a pass. Just how I look at it.Oh so now it's all their fault hey don't have more than one ring? Well Brady has 3 anyway.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:25 PM
Don't worry about it. Check out the Patriots Message Board and Brady is getting killed. He was getting killed when he lost to the Giants too last season. Let's not even bring up when they lost in Super Bowl 42. Everybody gets criticized, I'm not sure if there's any player that does not.

Thank you. Maybe this is just the way things are today in sports. Brady is a great passer, but he's no greater winner than Eli.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:25 PM
Do they have 2 Super Bowls? Again, if that's how you look at it then that's fine. To me, playing better than Eli doesn't mean they deserve a pass. Just how I look at it.If you play good, or better, how would that not earn a pass? So right now Packers fans should be questioning the best QB in the game because they lost in the playoffs? Why?

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:26 PM
Oh so now it's all their fault hey don't have more than one ring? Well Brady has 3 anyway.I never said that. You say Eli has had bad seasons but he has 2 rings to go along with those bad seasons. That's all I'm saying.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:26 PM
Thank you. Maybe this is just the way things are today in sports. Brady is a great passer, but he's no greater winner than Eli.Well actually he has 3 rings so yes he is.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:27 PM
If you play good, or better, how would that not earn a pass? So right now Packers fans should be questioning the best QB in the game because they lost in the playoffs? Why?Idk, ask them. I actually went on their boards after the game and they were blasting Rodgers.

TheEnigma
01-20-2013, 11:27 PM
I guess you could criticize Eli for some parts of the 2012 season but I'd question the likes of Tuck and Webster over him all day The entire team should come under scrutiny because it wasn't just one player that had a major role in the crash and burn. Why does this team look like crap for a 3 season stretch and then suddenly turn it on just to fade away again?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-20-2013, 11:27 PM
Well actually he has 3 rings so yes he is.

lol..well head to head brady is not better than Eli, period, end of story.

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:27 PM
he doesnt have a damn thing to prove. only "core" giant fans claiming he does have slanted agendas or motives and thus, will always require eli "prove" something to them. Its why people have accused those "core" fans as being the knee jerk, move the goal post back 10 yd type fans...

Eli has slanted agendas? That's too deep for me.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:28 PM
I never said that. You say Eli has had bad seasons but he has 2 rings to go along with those bad seasons. That's all I'm saying.So what's your point about the two rings or how a guy that plays better doesn't deserve a pass?

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:28 PM
lol..well head to head brady is not better than Eli, period, end of story.Again, Eli has never beaten a QB and never will.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:29 PM
So what's your point about the two rings or how a guy that plays better doesn't deserve a pass?I'm just going off what you said. "He has bad seasons" how are they "bad" if he has 2 rings? Because he doesnt put up the stats Rodgers does?

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:29 PM
Consistency. We all know how good Eli CAN be. we just want to see it more often

Cool. But we've won 2 Super Bowls with him. Have we ever won 2 or more Super Bowls with a single QB?

Marvelousmik
01-20-2013, 11:30 PM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?



http://www.damnlol.com/i/5dcdec3402563a5d3062ad9ddbccdec3.jpg (http://www.damnlol.com/i-see-what-you-did-there-2845.html)

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:31 PM
Well actually he has 3 rings so yes he is.

I hear ya, but as great a passer as Tom is, Eli matches him with innovation.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-20-2013, 11:31 PM
I don't think anyone wants that.

You sure? Just last week there was a thread about Marr Ryan being better than Eli which is a JOKE... complete JOKE.

Buddy333
01-20-2013, 11:33 PM
I'm just going off what you said. "He has bad seasons" how are they "bad" if he has 2 rings? Because he doesnt put up the stats Rodgers does?Why bring up only those two seasons? Again, the reason why he catches some heat is because he is inconsistent. Everyone gave him his due last year and he earned. Now he needs to take some heat for not playing well this year. It goes with the job.

Rudyy
01-20-2013, 11:33 PM
Why bring up only those two seasons? Again, the reason why he catches some heat is because he is inconsistent. Everyone gave him his due last year and he earned. Now he needs to take some heat for not playing well this year. It goes with the job.Ok

Roosevelt
01-20-2013, 11:35 PM
You sure? Just last week there was a thread about Marr Ryan being better than Eli which is a JOKE... complete JOKE.

After today's game there is no doubt Eli is the better QB.

Drez
01-20-2013, 11:40 PM
I'm just going off what you said. "He has bad seasons" how are they "bad" if he has 2 rings? Because he doesnt put up the stats Rodgers does?And even with the stats, I'm sure there's at least 20 or so teams that wish they had QBs have as "bad" of a season as Eli had this year.

NYG4lifeNYK
01-20-2013, 11:42 PM
After today's game there is no doubt Eli is the better QB.

There was never a question, ever.

All this game does is magnify how ASININE the thought of the comparison is.

Marvelousmik
01-20-2013, 11:42 PM
You sure? Just last week there was a thread about Marr Ryan being better than Eli which is a JOKE... complete JOKE.

sorry but matt ryan > eli no question. I dont care about playoff loses.Its a team game.

Drez
01-20-2013, 11:43 PM
After today's game there is no doubt Eli is the better QB. Not to say that Ryan isn't a good QB, but I think he's more a product of his receivers than anything.

Drez
01-20-2013, 11:43 PM
sorry but matt ryan > eli no question. I dont care about playoff loses.Its a team game.I don't know about that.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-20-2013, 11:45 PM
because they have no idea how lucky we are to have him, and when he is gone the same fans will be crying how much the team misses him.+1,000,000

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-20-2013, 11:48 PM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?Because they're either bandwagon fans or younger kids who weren't around for the Danny Kannel and Dave Brown era.

Rusty192
01-20-2013, 11:49 PM
I don't know about that.I believe you just got trolled. Badly.

EJ Blue
01-20-2013, 11:51 PM
I HATE it when people bring up accolades to excuse Eli's mediocre play. We know he has won two Super bowls. We also know that he's a big factor in this team underachieving and not getting into the playoffs because he is so incredibly consistent at being inconsistent. People want to watch their team compete, they don't want to hear about a bunch of past achievements after their team gets knocked out for being inept.

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 12:02 AM
After today's game there is no doubt Eli is the better QB.

when was the last time our defense gave up 28 points in the playoffs? if matt had the defense eli has it would be over

dakotajoe
01-21-2013, 12:05 AM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?

Because he was the 1st pick of the draft and quite frankly hasn't played like a #1 draft pick most of his career. He was awful his first few seasons and mediocre the year he first won the SB.

Take away the 2011 9-7 season in which the Giants got hot and won the Super Bowl and a helmet catch in 2007 and he is simply known as a loser. Plain and simple, a play here and a play there can change a player's legacy completely. We're still waiting for the breakout season, a season where the #1 pick plays like a MVP. I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.


With that said he CARRIED the team last year to the Super Bowl. Eli is clutch, there is a certain mystique about him. I fully expect Eli to have a better season next year especially if Nicks is healthy.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:08 AM
Because he was the 1st pick of the draft and quite frankly hasn't played like a #1 draft pick most of his career. He was awful his first few seasons and mediocre the year he first won the SB.

Take away the 2011 9-7 season in which the Giants got hot and won the Super Bowl and a helmet catch in 2007 and he is simply known as a loser. Plain and simple. We're still waiting for the breakout season, a season where the #1 pick plays like a MVP. I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.


With that said he CARRIED the team last year to the Super Bowl. Eli is clutch, there is a certain mystique about him. I fully expect Eli to have a better season next year especially if Nicks is healthy.

lol..then go root for the jets,,,,the last I checked you play to win championships,,Eli has delivered that. you dont think dan marino would trade in a heart beat all the regular season accolades for just one ring? sorry man,,stupid post.

ImElectric2
01-21-2013, 12:08 AM
I HATE it when people bring up accolades to excuse Eli's mediocre play. We know he has won two Super bowls. We also know that he's a big factor in this team underachieving and not getting into the playoffs because he is so incredibly consistent at being inconsistent. People want to watch their team compete, they don't want to hear about a bunch of past achievements after their team gets knocked out for being inept.So, what's that say about Rodgers or Brees or Brady or Peyton? Elis been knocked out 1-2 times less than each one over the past 6 years. Are you saying Eli is the best of them because he helped the Giants not be inept more times than those guys? While were not bringing up past successes an accolades, its looking like Flacco and Kapernick are probably the best in the league right now, wouldn't you agree?

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 12:09 AM
Because he was the 1st pick of the draft and quite frankly hasn't played like a #1 draft pick most of his career. He was awful his first few seasons and mediocre the year he first won the SB.

Take away the 2011 9-7 season in which the Giants got hot and won the Super Bowl and a helmet catch in 2007 and he is simply known as a loser. Plain and simple. We're still waiting for the breakout season, a season where the #1 pick plays like a MVP. I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.


With that said he CARRIED the team last year to the Super Bowl. Eli is clutch, there is a certain mystique about him. I fully expect Eli to have a better season next year especially if Nicks is healthy.

well said+1

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:11 AM
So, what's that say about Rodgers or Brees or Brady or Peyton? Elis been knocked out 1-2 times less than each one over the past 6 years. Are you saying Eli is the best of them because he helped the Giants not be inept more times than those guys? While were not bringing up past successes an accolades, its looking like Flacco and Kapernick are probably the best in the league right now, wouldn't you agree?

not to mention he has beaten all of those guys head to head in the regular season and playoffs/super bowl. but ok,,lets have Eli be the second coming of dan marino but never win a thing.

ImElectric2
01-21-2013, 12:12 AM
Because he was the 1st pick of the draft and quite frankly hasn't played like a #1 draft pick most of his career. He was awful his first few seasons and mediocre the year he first won the SB.Take away the 2011 9-7 season in which the Giants got hot and won the Super Bowl and a helmet catch in 2007 and he is simply known as a loser. Plain and simple, a play here and a play there can change a player's legacy completely. We're still waiting for the breakout season, a season where the #1 pick plays like a MVP. I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.With that said he CARRIED the team last year to the Super Bowl. Eli is clutch, there is a certain mystique about him. I fully expect Eli to have a better season next year especially if Nicks is healthy.If I may paraphrase your post: "Eli hasnt done anything to live up to a number 1 overall pick. I mean, aside from carrying this team on his back to a title last year he's practically just a loser." Seems logical.

TheEnigma
01-21-2013, 12:14 AM
Eli needs to prove to me that Abby Manning is real. A personal invite to his house would suffice.

dakotajoe
01-21-2013, 12:14 AM
lol..then go root for the jets,,,,the last I checked you play to win championships,,Eli has delivered that. you dont think dan marino would trade in a heart beat all the regular season accolades for just one ring? sorry man,,stupid post.

I'll never be a Jets fan, I'm not that dumb! Remember when the hot debate was "which QB would you rather build a franchise around: Sanchez or Eli?". I was and still am one of the biggest Eli supporters and argued that I'd take Eli 100 out of 100 times. That debate is funny to look back upon considering how pitiful Sanchez is. Most non Giants fans would have picked Sanchez 2-3 years ago. In fact I remember when Terry Bradshaw and other analysts ranked Sanchez higher than Eli on his Qbs under 30 list.

Like I said, Eli's comebacks aren't luck. He's flat at good at delivering at the end of the game when the team needs it. I'm more than grateful for the two Super Bowls but when it comes to evaluating his talent objectively, I'm still waiting for him to break out. He did during 2011 and think he will have a breakout year next year.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:15 AM
If I may paraphrase your post: "Eli hasnt done anything to live up to a number 1 overall pick. I mean, aside from carrying this team on his back to a title last year he's practically just a loser." Seems logical.

isn't it? the stupidity just floweth from this board.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:15 AM
I'll never be a Jets fan, I'm not that dumb!

Like I said, Eli's comebacks aren't luck. He's flat at good at delivering at the end of the game when the team needs it. I'm more than grateful for the two Super Bowls but when it comes to evaluating his talent objectively, I'm still waiting for him to break out. He did during 2011 and think he will have a breakout year next year.

somewhere out there dan marino wants to choke you.

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 12:16 AM
lol..then go root for the jets,,,,the last I checked you play to win championships,,Eli has delivered that. you dont think dan marino would trade in a heart beat all the regular season accolades for just one ring? sorry man,,stupid post.

eli got lucky in the first sb and in the second one manningham and the defense had to bail him out.

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 12:17 AM
Well actually he has 3 rings so yes he is.see how inconsistent ur logic is? u just get through a dozen posts trying to explain to rudy how its not the qbs fault their teams dont have more sb wins in response to rudys statement of eli and 2 sbs...then right here in the post I quote, you use the exact opposite logic and claim since brady has 3 sbs hes a greater winner than eli all the while saying eli isnt a greater winner than rodgers brees peyton etc bc he has 2 sbs and they only 1...this is why u always have 99% posters refuting claims u make, bc of posts like this

TheEnigma
01-21-2013, 12:18 AM
eli got lucky in the first sb and in the second one manningham and the defense had to bail him out.

Eli got lucky that Ryan Leaf complained to Peyton about the Chargers so that his daddy would take him to the Giants instead. Everyone thank Leaf for 2007 and 2011!

Rusty192
01-21-2013, 12:19 AM
I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.
I would hate to see what one of his not-so-big fans looks like lol

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:20 AM
Eli got lucky that Ryan Leaf complained to Peyton about the Chargers so that his daddy would take him to the Giants instead. Everyone thank Leaf for 2007 and 2011!

enigma,,you have inspired me,,,I'm gonna find out what prison Leaf is in this week and send him the rest of my pain meds from a recent tooth extraction. it's not much but it should help.

dakotajoe
01-21-2013, 12:21 AM
I would hate to see what one of his not-so-big fans looks like lol

I know it's hard to believe but I was an Eli fan before it was fashionable. Just look at my avatar :D.

TheEnigma
01-21-2013, 12:25 AM
enigma,,you have inspired me,,,I'm gonna find out what prison Leaf is in this week and send him the rest of my pain meds from a recent tooth extraction. it's not much but it should help.

He should be up for discussion to join the Giants Ring of Honor. Maybe we could reward him with the QBs coach job when he's out of prison?

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 12:25 AM
the people who unfairly criticize eli are usually the kind of people who dont even care about playoff/postseason success. literally. its always "well, he lost in the playoffs every time, playing poorly the majority of his postseason games, but he has great reg. season stats, so he's better than eli. enough said."

the good thing, ^ like that are few and far between. actually, with FF, thats not true. but if u would have taken elis career in its entirety, and moved it back 10-20 yrs, his postseason play would have him being remembered as an all time great with the allure and majestic performances...now a days, people literally revert to the comical, sophomoric thinking "his tds and qb rating isnt better than qb "x" so hes not as good"...and unfortunately its those type who go around telling other people how smart they are...its all a joke.

if a giants fan cant sit in comfort, looking back on what elis helped deliver with a sort of content, than whatever, that person just kinda sucks imo

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:26 AM
He should be up for discussion to join the Giants Ring of Honor. Maybe we could reward him with the QBs coach job when he's out of prison?

dude,,for real,,,how funny would that be,,ankle collar and all.

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 12:28 AM
Eli got lucky that Ryan Leaf complained to Peyton about the Chargers so that his daddy would take him to the Giants instead. Everyone thank Leaf for 2007 and 2011!lmfao did he really make that post or are u just like altering it as a joke??? lmfao

frantlj
01-21-2013, 12:29 AM
I would take 2 Super Bowls over the consistency of the careers of Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers and Drew Brees (one each). And Brady hasn't won one since Spygate. My money is on Eli for at least one more.

GO GIANTS!!!!

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:30 AM
I would take 2 Super Bowls over the consistency of the careers of Peyton Manning, Aaron Rogers and Drew Brees (one each). And Brady hasn't won one since Spygate. My money is on Eli for at least one more.

GO GIANTS!!!!

BURN BURN BURN

-says Dan Marino

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 12:31 AM
eli is consistent in the postseason and inconsistent in the reg season whereas the other elite qbs, the opposite is usually true. look at peyton for example, best reg season qb, pretty avg to even terrible at times postseason qb...

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:32 AM
eli is consistent in the postseason and inconsistent in the reg season whereas the other elite qbs, the opposite is usually true. look at peyton for example, best reg season qb, pretty avg to even terrible at times postseason qb...

8 one game playoff exits I believe I heard tonight.

TheEnigma
01-21-2013, 12:32 AM
lmfao did he really make that post or are u just like altering it as a joke??? lmfao

It was just a parody of his troll post but Peyton has actually said before that Leaf and him would talk a lot during their rookie years about how much their team helped them get settled down and apparently, the Chargers were horrible in that regard. Sooo in a sense, Leaf played a part in us acquiring Eli and not only did he screw them back in 1997 but in 2004 too!

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:37 AM
would you guys rather have big ben? that's who the pick would have been if Eli feel through.

JJC7301
01-21-2013, 12:49 AM
I just want another ring or two, but he's got nothing more to prove to me. I'm just greedy.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 12:58 AM
I just want another ring or two, but he's got nothing more to prove to me. I'm just greedy.

well said

Drez
01-21-2013, 01:21 AM
eli got lucky in the first sb and in the second one manningham and the defense had to bail him out.
Now you're just trolling. Are you really that bored tonight, Mik?

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 01:41 AM
It was just a parody of his troll post but Peyton has actually said before that Leaf and him would talk a lot during their rookie years about how much their team helped them get settled down and apparently, the Chargers were horrible in that regard. Sooo in a sense, Leaf played a part in us acquiring Eli and not only did he screw them back in 1997 but in 2004 too!no i meant the post u responded to from mik, i dont see his posts unless someone quotes it. did he actually write "eli was a lucky helmet catch and mm and the d bailing him out from being..." or did u just quote a post he made and then "fix" his post for him and just make a joke? lmfao i cant believe any reasonable logical person would make the blanket statement that u quoted in that post.

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 01:42 AM
Now you're just trolling. Are you really that bored tonight, Mik?he really did say it lmfao...hahaha. nah i doubt hes trolling, thats pretty consistent with his previous statements

BurnerNYG
01-21-2013, 03:47 AM
I love Eli and I'm glad he's our man. These have been some fascinating years as a Giants fan. I wish we were more consistent as far as making the playoffs because of how we turn it up when we get there. With that said, I'm hoping our next QB can beat a snail in a relay race... my only real gripe.

Toadofsteel
01-21-2013, 03:50 AM
the people who unfairly criticize eli are usually the kind of people who dont even care about playoff/postseason success. literally. its always "well, he lost in the playoffs every time, playing poorly the majority of his postseason games, but he has great reg. season stats, so he's better than eli. enough said."

the good thing, ^ like that are few and far between. actually, with FF, thats not true. but if u would have taken elis career in its entirety, and moved it back 10-20 yrs, his postseason play would have him being remembered as an all time great with the allure and majestic performances...now a days, people literally revert to the comical, sophomoric thinking "his tds and qb rating isnt better than qb "x" so hes not as good"...and unfortunately its those type who go around telling other people how smart they are...its all a joke.

Now you've got me imaging what if today's Eli was QB for the 1986 Giants, with today's TC as coach... we would have won a 4-peat between 1986 and 1990.

GMEN86900711
01-21-2013, 05:08 AM
Who said it was all his fault? Those other QB's have their bad games, but Eli has bad seasons.

Matt Ryan doesn't have bad seasons, would you rather have him?

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 05:39 AM
I love Eli and I'm glad he's our man. These have been some fascinating years as a Giants fan. I wish we were more consistent as far as making the playoffs because of how we turn it up when we get there. With that said, I'm hoping our next QB can beat a snail in a relay race... my only real gripe.

Lmao who do you think is slower? ELi or brady?

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 05:41 AM
Matt Ryan doesn't have bad seasons, would you rather have him?

yes. hes better. he just needs a good defense in the playoffs. if matt ryan had our playoff defense he would win the superbowl. their offense needs to score 5 touchdowns just to have a chance to win games because of how bad their defense is

RoanokeFan
01-21-2013, 06:48 AM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?

It's very hard for some to look at the big picture. Every game/play is do or die. Every failure is the end of life as they know it. We aren't going to know who Eli was until he hangs up his cleats which isn't close to happening.

It really is a "what have you done for me lately" attitude that is flamed by the media heads.

brad
01-21-2013, 07:59 AM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?

What makes you suggest he has anything to prove, or that anyone expects him to? I don't think he is as good as some on here seem to believe, but I do consider him amongst the best the Giants have ever had. Some seem to believe he is infallible, above questioning, which is ridiculous. Others seem to want to cast him as the second coming of Dave Brown, just lucky to get SB rings. In fact, both are wrong. Eli is a very good QB, and he has been at the helm for some great SB runs. But he isn't Joe Montana, Peyton, or Marino. That's OK, no one said he had to be.

Personally, I think he would prove to be a much more consistent QB under a system designed to create consistency. Using high percentage passes to move the ball rather than so many deep passes and a prayer, but that is just an opinion. In the end, two SBs under his belt is better than the vast majority of QBs playing today.

Die-Hard
01-21-2013, 08:52 AM
Eli has his detractors. From the media to our fanbase, there are people out there who simply do not believe he plays as well as he has shown he could play on a consistent basis. That does not mean that those same people dont appreciate or respect him. It has already been said by numerous people in this thread that they would just like to see more consistency out of him. Its not a burn, it's not a rip, but it is only a bit of constructive criticism that is NOT unwarranted, and not at all an unreasonable desire. Eli still, after almost 10 seasons, makes some very rookie-like decisions on the field, and some folks find that incredibly annoying. Why does being annoyed at something like that get misconstrued as 'hate'?

Thats the problem with this place. People defend everything Eli tooth and nail, and they do so with such hilarious ferocity that it ultimately turns what could have been a good, civil discussion into yet another back and forth pissing contest.

I like Eli, and I'm very happy that we have him, but I will make negative observations about him when he does something inexplicably stupid, or doesn't play up to the level that I know he's capable of. Past accolades do nothing in the present, so yes....every year, he has something to prove, at least to me. It doesn't mean I want him gone, it simply means that I'm not giving him a pass because of past MVP's and Super Bowls. I'd rather see him get more MVP's and Super Bowls instead of relishing the ones he already has, while giving him a pass for mediocre play in the process.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 09:02 AM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?
Its not that he has more to prove. Its the very fact that he has already "proved" he can do great things is the reason we want more rings as fans.
He wants more rings too.

RoanokeFan
01-21-2013, 09:49 AM
Eli has his detractors. From the media to our fanbase, there are people out there who simply do not believe he plays as well as he has shown he could play on a consistent basis. That does not mean that those same people dont appreciate or respect him. It has already been said by numerous people in this thread that they would just like to see more consistency out of him. Its not a burn, it's not a rip, but it is only a bit of constructive criticism that is NOT unwarranted, and not at all an unreasonable desire. Eli still, after almost 10 seasons, makes some very rookie-like decisions on the field, and some folks find that incredibly annoying. Why does being annoyed at something like that get misconstrued as 'hate'? Thats the problem with this place. People defend everything Eli tooth and nail, and they do so with such hilarious ferocity that it ultimately turns what could have been a good, civil discussion into yet another back and forth pissing contest. I like Eli, and I'm very happy that we have him, but I will make negative observations about him when he does something inexplicably stupid, or doesn't play up to the level that I know he's capable of. Past accolades do nothing in the present, so yes....every year, he has something to prove, at least to me. It doesn't mean I want him gone, it simply means that I'm not giving him a pass because of past MVP's and Super Bowls. I'd rather see him get more MVP's and Super Bowls instead of relishing the ones he already has, while giving him a pass for mediocre play in the process. That pretty well sums it up

nhpgiantsfan
01-21-2013, 10:19 AM
If everyone takes a minute and thinks back to the draft day trade. If you were told right then that he wouldn't be the best QB in the league but in his first 8 years the Giants would win two SB's and he would be the MVP both times, I think every fan out there would be ecstatic and sign for it right there. In my opinion winning two rings has already made the trade well worth it even if he doesn't win anymore. If every 1st round pick of our was that successful we would never lose.

gmen0820
01-21-2013, 10:48 AM
Because Flacco has overtaken him as the best QB in the league, duh.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 11:02 AM
Eli has his detractors. From the media to our fanbase, there are people out there who simply do not believe he plays as well as he has shown he could play on a consistent basis. That does not mean that those same people dont appreciate or respect him. It has already been said by numerous people in this thread that they would just like to see more consistency out of him. Its not a burn, it's not a rip, but it is only a bit of constructive criticism that is NOT unwarranted, and not at all an unreasonable desire. Eli still, after almost 10 seasons, makes some very rookie-like decisions on the field, and some folks find that incredibly annoying. Why does being annoyed at something like that get misconstrued as 'hate'? Thats the problem with this place. People defend everything Eli tooth and nail, and they do so with such hilarious ferocity that it ultimately turns what could have been a good, civil discussion into yet another back and forth pissing contest. I like Eli, and I'm very happy that we have him, but I will make negative observations about him when he does something inexplicably stupid, or doesn't play up to the level that I know he's capable of. Past accolades do nothing in the present, so yes....every year, he has something to prove, at least to me. It doesn't mean I want him gone, it simply means that I'm not giving him a pass because of past MVP's and Super Bowls. I'd rather see him get more MVP's and Super Bowls instead of relishing the ones he already has, while giving him a pass for mediocre play in the process.Excellent post.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 11:03 AM
And even with the stats, I'm sure there's at least 20 or so teams that wish they had QBs have as "bad" of a season as Eli had this year.You sure about that?

RoanokeFan
01-21-2013, 11:52 AM
Because Flacco has overtaken him as the best QB in the league, duh.

Get your helmet

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:06 PM
I HATE it when people bring up accolades to excuse Eli's mediocre play. We know he has won two Super bowls. We also know that he's a big factor in this team underachieving and not getting into the playoffs because he is so incredibly consistent at being inconsistent. People want to watch their team compete, they don't want to hear about a bunch of past achievements after their team gets knocked out for being inept.

It's not an excuse, just a fact. But you make a good point because we never know which team is going to show up each week.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:10 PM
when was the last time our defense gave up 28 points in the playoffs? if matt had the defense eli has it would be over

I've seen Eli play mistake-free to win a big game. Can't say the same about Matt.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good QB, but I don't have confidence in him to play solid for 60 minutes.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:11 PM
Not to say that Ryan isn't a good QB, but I think he's more a product of his receivers than anything.

He's got a great group to throw to no doubt. But now he's losing #88.

Toadofsteel
01-21-2013, 12:16 PM
Eli is a very good QB, and he has been at the helm for some great SB runs. But he isn't Joe Montana, Peyton, or Marino. That's OK, no one said he had to be.

The problem is, the media still just casts him as Peyton's younger brother, and in more aggressive cases likes to compare Eli to a special ed. student. Anyone remember Skip Bayless' "quarterback savant" remarks? That was only after the second ring. The media still, to this day, seems to think that just because Eli doesn't fit a certain personality archetype, he shouldn't be playing QB at all. And that pisses me off. I feel as though he needs to get 4 rings in his career and flat-out be just as good as Montana before the media and fans actually give Eli an ounce of respect that isn't back-handed...

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:18 PM
Because he was the 1st pick of the draft and quite frankly hasn't played like a #1 draft pick most of his career. He was awful his first few seasons and mediocre the year he first won the SB.

Take away the 2011 9-7 season in which the Giants got hot and won the Super Bowl and a helmet catch in 2007 and he is simply known as a loser. Plain and simple, a play here and a play there can change a player's legacy completely. We're still waiting for the breakout season, a season where the #1 pick plays like a MVP. I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.


With that said he CARRIED the team last year to the Super Bowl. Eli is clutch, there is a certain mystique about him. I fully expect Eli to have a better season next year especially if Nicks is healthy.


I totally agree. But after suffering threw the post Simms era you would think we would cut him slack when he's off his game.

Everyone knows that I am as critical of him as they come. But when I sit back look at the big picture, it is a bit puzzling to see the heated debates that go on here because of him.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:22 PM
lol..then go root for the jets,,,,the last I checked you play to win championships,,Eli has delivered that. you dont think dan marino would trade in a heart beat all the regular season accolades for just one ring? sorry man,,stupid post.

As much a Dan would have loved a ring, he did say recently that he would never trade his accomplishments for a ring. He's very proud of his record, and rightfully so.

One of the greatest Dan Marino stats is his career rushing record - 87 yards!

BurnerNYG
01-21-2013, 12:23 PM
Lmao who do you think is slower? ELi or brady?A snail racing a turtle huh? I think Eli might take him.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:24 PM
eli got lucky in the first sb and in the second one manningham and the defense had to bail him out.

I see what you did there. ;]

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:38 PM
8 one game playoff exits I believe I heard tonight.

I wasn't suggesting Eli Manning is a great player because he's won 2 Super Bowls. I was simply talking about our appreciation of him, or lack of it, as it relates to the success he's had.

Despite Peyton's short-comings in the post season he probably will become a 5x league MVP, and undoubtedly is one of the greatest quarterbacks to play the game. I don't see Eli achieving that level of greatness, and that's not a knock against him. That's just how good Peyton is.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:43 PM
would you guys rather have big ben? that's who the pick would have been if Eli feel through.

History has shown that we probably would have been just fine with Ben. But yes, there are times when I wish we had him. And there are times when I'm very happy we have Eli.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 12:47 PM
It's very hard for some to look at the big picture. Every game/play is do or die. Every failure is the end of life as they know it. We aren't going to know who Eli was until he hangs up his cleats which isn't close to happening.

It really is a "what have you done for me lately" attitude that is flamed by the media heads.

It seems so different now, but maybe it's not. Even after Simms delivered on the first Super Bowl there were still Giants fans that cheered when he got injured.

Eli is in a similar position...

ShakeandBake
01-21-2013, 12:56 PM
The problem is, the media still just casts him as Peyton's younger brother, and in more aggressive cases likes to compare Eli to a special ed. student. Anyone remember Skip Bayless' "quarterback savant" remarks? That was only after the second ring. The media still, to this day, seems to think that just because Eli doesn't fit a certain personality archetype, he shouldn't be playing QB at all. And that pisses me off. I feel as though he needs to get 4 rings in his career and flat-out be just as good as Montana before the media and fans actually give Eli an ounce of respect that isn't back-handed...

Cmon you can't quote Skip Bayless and then use that as the barometer for how the rest of the talking heads/sportswriters feel about Eli. I do think that Peyton will always been seen as the better QB but I think that opinion is warranted based on his performance throughout his career(not to say that Eli has had a terrible career)

Drez
01-21-2013, 01:01 PM
You sure about that?
Yes. Though, I'll rephrase it to there's at least 20 teams that would love to have Eli over what they have at QB right now.

Drez
01-21-2013, 01:03 PM
History has shown that we probably would have been just fine with Ben. But yes, there are times when I wish we had him. And there are times when I'm very happy we have Eli.
I'm not too sure if Ben would have been able to survive/succeed under the NYC media scrutiny for his off the field issues (the motorcycle accident, the rape allegations, etc).

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 01:04 PM
What makes you suggest he has anything to prove, or that anyone expects him to? I don't think he is as good as some on here seem to believe, but I do consider him amongst the best the Giants have ever had. Some seem to believe he is infallible, above questioning, which is ridiculous. Others seem to want to cast him as the second coming of Dave Brown, just lucky to get SB rings. In fact, both are wrong. Eli is a very good QB, and he has been at the helm for some great SB runs. But he isn't Joe Montana, Peyton, or Marino. That's OK, no one said he had to be.

Personally, I think he would prove to be a much more consistent QB under a system designed to create consistency. Using high percentage passes to move the ball rather than so many deep passes and a prayer, but that is just an opinion. In the end, two SBs under his belt is better than the vast majority of QBs playing today.


If Eli Manning is truly elite, he needs to prove it over a period of time, not one season.

Rkblitz56
01-21-2013, 01:07 PM
I'm a huge Eli guy, have defended him for years but he needs to be more consistent..

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 01:08 PM
I'm not too sure if Ben would have been able to survive/succeed under the NYC media scrutiny for his off the field issues (the motorcycle accident, the rape allegations, etc).

True, but I am only judging that based on his on-field performances.

Toadofsteel
01-21-2013, 01:09 PM
Cmon you can't quote Skip Bayless and then use that as the barometer for how the rest of the talking heads/sportswriters feel about Eli. I do think that Peyton will always been seen as the better QB but I think that opinion is warranted based on his performance throughout his career(not to say that Eli has had a terrible career)

Can I see Peyton as the better QB? Yes. But when that item starts devaluing Eli's career, I can't have it anymore...

RoanokeFan
01-21-2013, 01:16 PM
It's so seems so different now, but maybe it's not. Even after Simms delivered on the first Super Bowl there were still Giants fans that cheered when he got injured.

Eli is in a similar position...

It really is amazing how short memories can be.

gumby74
01-21-2013, 01:17 PM
The only reason why I'm looking for more now, is because he teased us in 2011 with his brilliance. Otherwise, I was already at peace with his inconsistent up and down play. That being said, it's his inconsistency that will always be a point of contention and it will always make it seem like he needs to prove himself. In every day life and not just football, if you're inconsistent, people are constantly trying to figure you out. Are you Dr Jeckyll? Or Mr Hyde? This is the case with Eli. Who the heck is he?

IMO, he has nothing left to prove in actuality - regardless of what the public and I think. He has already shown he can take us to the promised land - twice. And that is what every team in the NFL is gunning for in an NFL QB - a QB that is good enough to win it all. End of debate.

However, until he fixes his consistency issues, people will always question him -fair or not. It won't matter if he wins 4 SBs, if he's still inconsistent, the questions will linger. The regular season is important - as far as public perception goes. And that's what this post is all about isn't it? Once he becomes consistent, the public will know who he is and won't need to "prove" anything. They will just "know".

ShakeandBake
01-21-2013, 01:17 PM
Can I see Peyton as the better QB? Yes. But when that item starts devaluing Eli's career, I can't have it anymore...

It's arguable either way because of Eli's playoff wins, but I still think that Eli is just below Peyton because of his lack of consistency. I'm happy with Eli as our QB don't get me wrong, I think the difference is the 5th or 6th best QB in the league vs the 3rd or so.

BigBlueAllDay
01-21-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm sure no respectable Giants fan will cheer if Eli went down.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 01:26 PM
Its not that he has more to prove. Its the very fact that he has already "proved" he can do great things is the reason we want more rings as fans.
He wants more rings too.

this^^^^^

BuffyBlueII
01-21-2013, 01:41 PM
I'm not too sure if Ben would have been able to survive/succeed under the NYC media scrutiny for his off the field issues (the motorcycle accident, the rape allegations, etc).

He probably wouldn’t have been riding a motorcycle in NYC. However, he more than likely would’ve been in Latin Quarters with Plexiglass when the gun went off.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 01:53 PM
Eli has his detractors. From the media to our fanbase, there are people out there who simply do not believe he plays as well as he has shown he could play on a consistent basis. That does not mean that those same people dont appreciate or respect him. It has already been said by numerous people in this thread that they would just like to see more consistency out of him. Its not a burn, it's not a rip, but it is only a bit of constructive criticism that is NOT unwarranted, and not at all an unreasonable desire. Eli still, after almost 10 seasons, makes some very rookie-like decisions on the field, and some folks find that incredibly annoying. Why does being annoyed at something like that get misconstrued as 'hate'?

Thats the problem with this place. People defend everything Eli tooth and nail, and they do so with such hilarious ferocity that it ultimately turns what could have been a good, civil discussion into yet another back and forth pissing contest.

I like Eli, and I'm very happy that we have him, but I will make negative observations about him when he does something inexplicably stupid, or doesn't play up to the level that I know he's capable of. Past accolades do nothing in the present, so yes....every year, he has something to prove, at least to me. It doesn't mean I want him gone, it simply means that I'm not giving him a pass because of past MVP's and Super Bowls. I'd rather see him get more MVP's and Super Bowls instead of relishing the ones he already has, while giving him a pass for mediocre play in the process.

Well said.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 02:01 PM
The problem is, the media still just casts him as Peyton's younger brother, and in more aggressive cases likes to compare Eli to a special ed. student. Anyone remember Skip Bayless' "quarterback savant" remarks? That was only after the second ring. The media still, to this day, seems to think that just because Eli doesn't fit a certain personality archetype, he shouldn't be playing QB at all. And that pisses me off. I feel as though he needs to get 4 rings in his career and flat-out be just as good as Montana before the media and fans actually give Eli an ounce of respect that isn't back-handed...

Therein lies the consistency issue. Consistency is all that is needed to quiet his detractors.

EliDaMANning
01-21-2013, 02:02 PM
Yes. Though, I'll rephrase it to there's at least 20 teams that would love to have Eli over what they have at QB right now.deep down inside belichecks soul, even he wishes he had Eli as his QB

gumby74
01-21-2013, 02:04 PM
Eli has his detractors. From the media to our fanbase, there are people out there who simply do not believe he plays as well as he has shown he could play on a consistent basis. That does not mean that those same people dont appreciate or respect him. It has already been said by numerous people in this thread that they would just like to see more consistency out of him. Its not a burn, it's not a rip, but it is only a bit of constructive criticism that is NOT unwarranted, and not at all an unreasonable desire. Eli still, after almost 10 seasons, makes some very rookie-like decisions on the field, and some folks find that incredibly annoying. Why does being annoyed at something like that get misconstrued as 'hate'?

Thats the problem with this place. People defend everything Eli tooth and nail, and they do so with such hilarious ferocity that it ultimately turns what could have been a good, civil discussion into yet another back and forth pissing contest.

I like Eli, and I'm very happy that we have him, but I will make negative observations about him when he does something inexplicably stupid, or doesn't play up to the level that I know he's capable of. Past accolades do nothing in the present, so yes....every year, he has something to prove, at least to me. It doesn't mean I want him gone, it simply means that I'm not giving him a pass because of past MVP's and Super Bowls. I'd rather see him get more MVP's and Super Bowls instead of relishing the ones he already has, while giving him a pass for mediocre play in the process.

This.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 02:04 PM
Its not that he has more to prove. Its the very fact that he has already "proved" he can do great things is the reason we want more rings as fans.
He wants more rings too.

He didn't play like that this season though.

Drez
01-21-2013, 02:04 PM
He probably wouldn’t have been riding a motorcycle in NYC. If he was riding in Pittsburgh, why wouldn't he be riding in NYC? I mean, it isn't like Pittsburgh is a rural town. And either way, just about all the guys live in Jersey during the season, not the city.

Drez
01-21-2013, 02:06 PM
He didn't play like that this season though.Neither did the rest of the team. Here's to '13 being more like '11 than '12.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 02:15 PM
Neither did the rest of the team. Here's to '13 being more like '11 than '12.So because the rest if the team played bad he is excused?

BuffyBlueII
01-21-2013, 02:21 PM
If he was riding in Pittsburgh, why wouldn't he be riding in NYC? I mean, it isn't like Pittsburgh is a rural town. And either way, just about all the guys live in Jersey during the season, not the city.

Yeah, you are right on that. He would be riding. The difference being that all riders in New York and New Jersey are required to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle and in Pennsylvania, it is only the law for riders 20 and under to have to wear a helmet.

I don’t know how it would have panned out for SuperBowl Championships or whatever but I think Big Ben would have been fine on NY Giants. Actually, as mobile as he is, he may be better suited for a flawed system like the on eour OC has in place here.

G-MANning4Life
01-21-2013, 02:30 PM
I think the fans, the media, the skeptics all want to see the same thing from him....consistency.
That is all. Every fan appreciates him for what he has done for the team. Yet, people always question his ability when he has a stretch of games where he does not show up almost every year, after playing very well within other games in the same season. You cannot put him in the same conversation as his brother and Brady when you're not even sure which version of Eli will show up from week to week.

Although we must remember, he has one more ring than his brother, and beat Brady in the Superbowl both times to earn it. That trumps all the comparison talks for me.

Toadofsteel
01-21-2013, 02:34 PM
I'm sure no respectable Giants fan will cheer if Eli went down.

I'd be ****ting my pants if Eli went down...

Drez
01-21-2013, 02:37 PM
So because the rest if the team played bad he is excused?
Did I say that? No. So stop trying to put words in my mouth. I have said countless times that Eli had played poorly this season (by our standards and his). However, does Eli playing poorly excuse the rest of the team playing like crap?

GentleGiant
01-21-2013, 02:38 PM
The more times someone compares Eli to "insert elite QB here" the more likely he's gonna go out and outplay "insert elite QB here" when he meets him.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 02:39 PM
Did I say that? No. So stop trying to put words in my mouth. I have said countless times that Eli had played poorly this season (by our standards and his). However, does Eli playing poorly excuse the rest of the team playing like crap?So why bring the rest of the team into it? This is about Eli.

Drez
01-21-2013, 02:39 PM
Yeah, you are right on that. He would be riding. The difference being that all riders in New York and New Jersey are required to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle and in Pennsylvania, it is only the law for riders 20 and under to have to wear a helmet.

I don’t know how it would have panned out for SuperBowl Championships or whatever but I think Big Ben would have been fine on NY Giants. Actually, as mobile as he is, he may be better suited for a flawed system like the on eour OC has in place here.Ben doesn't read defenses well enough to play in the system that we currently have in place. In fact, I've read or heard (can't remember where so no link available, so take it fwiw), that Ben was spoon fed Pitts offense the first 2 or 3 years, whereas Eli was given the whole shebang right from the get-go.

Drez
01-21-2013, 02:40 PM
So why bring the rest of the team into it? This is about Eli.
This is about whatever the hell I want to talk about. If you take issue with what I'm saying then put your big boy pants on and ignore it.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 02:45 PM
This is about whatever the hell I want to talk about. If you take issue with what I'm saying then put your big boy pants on and ignore it.Just asking what does the rest of the team playing poorly have to do with Eli.

Drez
01-21-2013, 02:52 PM
Just asking what does the rest of the team playing poorly have to do with Eli.
So, the rest of the team's performance doesn't affect how the QB plays?

And that's my last response to you on this matter. If you do not like the conversation I'm having with another poster, then don't get involved in it.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 02:54 PM
Oh, so it's everyone else's fault but when he plays good he carries the team. Got it. Look, this is not about hating on Eli. He just needs to be consistent.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 02:56 PM
He didn't play like that this season though.
no but he has in the past. Thas why we as fans expect more from him...
Thas what I was tryign to get a cross....

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 02:59 PM
no but he has in the past. Thas why we as fans expect more from him...Thas what I was tryign to get a cross....This. Would they have repeated this year if he played the same as 2011? Maybe not, but the would have made the post season and there would be less questioning about his consistency.

Drez
01-21-2013, 03:03 PM
Oh, so it's everyone else's fault but when he plays good he carries the team. Got it. Look, this is not about hating on Eli. He just needs to be consistent.
Obviously you lack the intelligence to hold this conversation.

/ignore

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 03:06 PM
Obviously you lack the intelligence to hold this conversation. /ignoreReally? You just blamed the rest of the team for Eli being inconsistent. Eli's a good QB capable of being very good but is inconsistent. He does that on his own. Other QB's have bad OL's or bad defenses or injuries to deal with but they still find a way.

EliDaMANning
01-21-2013, 03:20 PM
Really? You just blamed the rest of the team for Eli being inconsistent. Eli's a good QB capable of being very good but is inconsistent. He does that on his own. Other QB's have bad OL's or bad defenses or injuries to deal with but they still find a way.are you this stupid? He's stated his case by saying everyone needs to play well. Of course thats true and it pertains to every QB in the NFL. Did NO find a way to make the playoffs? Did GB find a way to the SB? No they did not because they have terrible defenses. According to your standards, these guys just didn't have it in them to compensate their team deficiencies. According to you, nobody is capable of playing QB, not just Eli. You are a clown dude. Quit with the unnecessary nitpicking.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 03:23 PM
Lol. The Saints did not make the playoffs but it had nothing to do with Brees being inconsistent. Same goes for Rogers and Green Bay. Still want to know why it's the rest of the teams fault that Eli didn't play well.

Drez
01-21-2013, 03:25 PM
are you this stupid? He's stated his case by saying everyone needs to play well. Of course thats true and it pertains to every QB in the NFL. Did NO find a way to make the playoffs? Did GB find a way to the SB? No they did not because they have terrible defenses. According to your standards, these guys just didn't have it in them to compensate their team deficiencies. According to you, nobody is capable of playing QB, not just Eli. You are a clown dude. Quit with the unnecessary nitpicking.Yeah, he's on my ignore list now. He doesn't really have anything to add to a conversation (not that I'm going to get any awards for the substance of my posts, lol), so I just don't want to be bother with having to see them anymore. I figure I can save a few seconds every thread now. And those seconds might add up to a beautiful post such as this one. ;)

nhpgiantsfan
01-21-2013, 03:26 PM
This. Would they have repeated this year if he played the same as 2011? Maybe not, but the would have made the post season and there would be less questioning about his consistency.

Ask yourself this. Would he have played closer to his 2011 season had Hakeem Nicks been 100% healthy all year. I think yes.. A QB's success is very much tied to the success of the players around him. Protection, running game, TE, & WR's. and it goes both ways. A WR can look like a stud with a great QB and look very average with a mediocre QB.

EliDaMANning
01-21-2013, 03:27 PM
Lol. The Saints did not make the playoffs but it had nothing to do with Brees being inconsistent. Same goes for Rogers and Green Bay. Still want to know why it's the rest of the teams fault that Eli didn't play well.LOL but you admit they didn't have it in them to bring their teams over the top? Brees threw away a handful of games during the regular season. He has been very inconsistent in his career with a ton of picks. The amazing Rodgers was put in check by an average SF defense and couldn't help his team out. They are clearly not $100m QB by your standards

Drez
01-21-2013, 03:28 PM
Ask yourself this. Would he have played closer to his 2011 season had Hakeem Nicks been 100% healthy all year. I think yes.. A QB's success is very much tied to the success of the players around him. Protection, running game, TE, & WR's. and it goes both ways. A WR can look like a stud with a great QB and look very average with a mediocre QB.It's nuances like this that he doesn't understand and I no longer feel is worth the time belaboring to him.

EliDaMANning
01-21-2013, 03:32 PM
Ask yourself this. Would he have played closer to his 2011 season had Hakeem Nicks been 100% healthy all year. I think yes.. A QB's success is very much tied to the success of the players around him. Protection, running game, TE, & WR's. and it goes both ways. A WR can look like a stud with a great QB and look very average with a mediocre QB.Eli was dominating the first quarter of the season with a healthy WR core. Once Nicks stopped practicing and took game time away from guys like Barden and randle it went downhill from there. I honestly think the giants would've won 10-12 games if they benched Nicks and DD

Plaxico Jones
01-21-2013, 03:32 PM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?
He doesn't.
But we're Giants fans and we want to keep winning. And good play from or QB is required for that.

RoanokeFan
01-21-2013, 03:36 PM
I'd be ****ting my pants if Eli went down...

Now there's an image

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 03:50 PM
deep down inside belichecks soul, even he wishes he had Eli as his QB

Don't be ridiculous. The two have won 3 Super Bowls together.

Plaxico Jones
01-21-2013, 03:51 PM
are you this stupid? He's stated his case by saying everyone needs to play well. Of course thats true and it pertains to every QB in the NFL. Did NO find a way to make the playoffs? Did GB find a way to the SB? No they did not because they have terrible defenses. According to your standards, these guys just didn't have it in them to compensate their team deficiencies. According to you, nobody is capable of playing QB, not just Eli. You are a clown dude. Quit with the unnecessary nitpicking.
I don't know...I'm gunna have to disagree with you here.
Rodgers had one of the worst O lines in the NFL and no running game. He also lost his 2 best WR's for extended periods of time this season. Saying all that, they won the division. And Rodgers had a tremendous season. Brees played on a team with the worst rated defense of all time. (really...it worst of all time!) and still went 8-8 and was hyper productive.

You gotta hope that Eli can play well even when other parts of the team are hurt or ineffective. I for one, expect him to from here on out.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 03:52 PM
I'm sure no respectable Giants fan will cheer if Eli went down.

In case you haven't noticed, we have our share of non-respectables.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 03:54 PM
Neither did the rest of the team. Here's to '13 being more like '11 than '12.

Absolutely. I see Eli bouncing back, but I have no idea what the rest of the team is going to look like with all our FA's and players who have under-performed based on their salaries.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 03:57 PM
no but he has in the past. Thas why we as fans expect more from him...
Thas what I was tryign to get a cross....

I hear ya. We know what he can do. We just want to see him do it consistently.

Part of the problem is that we seem to live (and die) with the long ball.

njg85m
01-21-2013, 03:59 PM
Because a scary percentage of the posters on this board would much rather have a QB who takes his team to the playoffs every single year and never wins a super bowl, than to have the QB we have who wins 9-11 games a season and brings a ring home every 4/5 years.

Drez
01-21-2013, 04:00 PM
Don't be ridiculous. The two have won 3 Super Bowls together.
And have been to 5. I'm sure even though he's disappointed at the results of the last 2 SBs, that he's very pleased to have Brady.

Drez
01-21-2013, 04:03 PM
I don't know...I'm gunna have to disagree with you here.
Rodgers had one of the worst O lines in the NFL and no running game. He also lost his 2 best WR's for extended periods of time this season. Saying all that, they won the division. And Rodgers had a tremendous season. Brees played on a team with the worst rated defense of all time. (really...it worst of all time!) and still went 8-8 and was hyper productive.

You gotta hope that Eli can play well even when other parts of the team are hurt or ineffective. I for one, expect him to from here on out.
Our Ol isn't very good, either, and despite playing most of the season, Nicks wasn't healthy which greatly limited what we could do offensively (if I'm inferring correctly, a lot of what we do is by Nicks being able to draw coverage to free up things for Cruz and the other receivers). Things may have turned out differently had we shut down Nicks earlier, but he thought he was getting better and was able to convince the coaching staff thusly.

Drez
01-21-2013, 04:04 PM
Absolutely. I see Eli bouncing back, but I have no idea what the rest of the team is going to look like with all our FA's and players who have under-performed based on their salaries.
It'll look different, no doubt, but the offensive side of the ball should remain more or less intact I believe.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 04:06 PM
Understand completely. You guys are saying that unless everything is perfect for Eli he will play inconsistent. Those other QB's played well in defeat. Eli did not.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 04:48 PM
I hear ya. We know what he can do. We just want to see him do it consistently.

Part of the problem is that we seem to live (and die) with the long ball.
true but what does that have to do with the original topic of the thread???

Eli is the NYG QB. He has something to prove to himself, his team, and his fans every year. Just like any other NFL QB.
I bet Pats fans wanted a win yesterday.....

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 04:54 PM
true but what does that have to do with the original topic of the thread???Eli is the NYG QB. He has something to prove to himself, his team, and his fans every year. Just like any other NFL QB. I bet Pats fans wanted a win yesterday.....Are you sure about that? Brady has won 3 Super Bowls already? What does he have to prove next year?

Rudyy
01-21-2013, 05:57 PM
Lol. The Saints did not make the playoffs but it had nothing to do with Brees being inconsistent. Same goes for Rogers and Green Bay. Still want to know why it's the rest of the teams fault that Eli didn't play well.Brees was inconsistent and careless with the football this season. No, Eli is not better than him but other QB's can play crappy too. 19 picks is 19 picks.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 06:06 PM
Now there's an image

lol. I guess Toad really isn't made of steel.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 06:12 PM
true but what does that have to do with the original topic of the thread???

Eli is the NYG QB. He has something to prove to himself, his team, and his fans every year. Just like any other NFL QB.
I bet Pats fans wanted a win yesterday.....

We expected and paid for an elite QB. He's delivered 2 Super Bowls while being elite for one season.

Everyone wants to win. Not everyone plays like it on Sundays however.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 06:16 PM
Brees was inconsistent and careless with the football this season. No, Eli is not better than him but other QB's can play crappy too. 19 picks is 19 picks.

After what that team went through I would never judge Drew Brees off that season.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 06:18 PM
true but what does that have to do with the original topic of the thread???



Living and dieing with the long ball? Perhaps that's why he's/we're inconsistent. Going 3 and out and not finding a rhythm.

Toadofsteel
01-21-2013, 06:32 PM
lol. I guess Toad really isn't made of steel.

Say what you will, if Eli goes down for a game, we're screwed for that game (unless it's the 4th quarter and we're ahead by a lot). If Eli goes down for the season we're screwed for the season...

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 06:55 PM
Brees was inconsistent and careless with the football this season. No, Eli is not better than him but other QB's can play crappy too. 19 picks is 19 picks.You left out the 43 TD's and 5,177 passing yards.

BigBlue1971
01-21-2013, 07:15 PM
The guy is a 2-time Super Bowl MVP. So why are Giants fans looking for more from this guy?

with Eli i think fans want more consistency from him! we want him to play every game the same or close to his superbowl runs!

Eli hasnt done that! at times he has looked down right pitful, led the league in turnovers etc. normally a proven qb doesnt do that imo!

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 08:16 PM
Ben doesn't read defenses well enough to play in the system that we currently have in place..

how do you know this?

Drez
01-21-2013, 08:17 PM
how do you know this?
How do you not know this?

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 08:19 PM
How do you not know this?

i find posts like these to be entertaining. Just state something you have no proof of like its fact.

Matt ryan hates hot dogs. How do you not know this?

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 08:47 PM
The amazing Rodgers was put in check by an average SF defense and couldn't help his team out. They are clearly not $100m QB by your standards

+1. yeah they held the packers offense to only 31 points

Drez
01-21-2013, 08:52 PM
i find posts like these to be entertaining. Just state something you have no proof of like its fact.

Matt ryan hates hot dogs. How do you not know this?
How can you tell that Vick doesn't read defenses well? You watch the games and can see that they aren't strong at it. It's the same way I can tell that Eli isn't the most adroit at running the ball.

Rudyy
01-21-2013, 08:53 PM
After what that team went through I would never judge Drew Brees off that season.I'm not judging him, I know what he had to endure.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 09:00 PM
Are you sure about that? Brady has won 3 Super Bowls already? What does he have to prove next year?

its not about proving anything. Its about the fans always wanting more. I was watching the game yesterday with a Pats. he didnt say "aw shucks we have 3 lombardies from Brady the loss is ok".....

Marvelousmik
01-21-2013, 09:02 PM
How can you tell that Vick doesn't read defenses well? You watch the games and can see that they aren't strong at it. It's the same way I can tell that Eli isn't the most adroit at running the ball.

Ben has been the starting qb for 9 years and he has won 2 super bowls while playing in 3. He is very good at protecting the football. I'm not sure how you're coming up with this idea because ive seen a lot of steeler games. I'd also be willing to bet that anyone who has had that much success as a QB would at least know how to read defenses at a high level.

Vick is not considered a top 5 qb.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 09:08 PM
with Eli i think fans want more consistency from him! we want him to play every game the same or close to his superbowl runs!

Eli hasnt done that! at times he has looked down right pitful, led the league in turnovers etc. normally a proven qb doesnt do that imo!

Absolutely. Eli Manning is anything but a normal QB. I don't recall any QB that plays like Eli.

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 10:27 PM
How do you not know this?

Did u really just ask that lmao

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 10:30 PM
Really? You just blamed the rest of the team for Eli being inconsistent. Eli's a good QB capable of being very good but is inconsistent. He does that on his own. Other QB's have bad OL's or bad defenses or injuries to deal with but they still find a way.u do realize its for the world to see how u spent pages on how bc eli has more sb wins than another qb doesnt mean hes a greater winner than anyone, which u then followed up immediately with a post about how Brady is a greater winner bc he has 3 sbs, u have illogical stances and thus, will always meet criticism of ur posts and points.

Flip Empty
01-21-2013, 10:33 PM
You left out the 43 TD's and 5,177 passing yards.
Yeah many people have seemed to overlook his numbers this season, Brees is far from the problem.
19 INTs are less of a worry when he threw double the amount of touchdowns.
Granted, he did lose a couple of games for them, but the defense lost the season.

Drez
01-21-2013, 10:41 PM
Did u really just ask that lmao
Yes, I did. And it's a fair question. How can someone who follows football, especially if they say they watch a lot of Steelers football, not know that Ben isn't the best at reading defenses?

Rudyy
01-21-2013, 11:14 PM
Yes, I did. And it's a fair question. How can someone who follows football, especially if they say they watch a lot of Steelers football, not know that Ben isn't the best at reading defenses?And holds on for the ball way too long.

He's still a good qb, but I wouldn't say he's better than Eli.

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 11:16 PM
Yes, I did. And it's a fair question. How can someone who follows football, especially if they say they watch a lot of Steelers football, not know that Ben isn't the best at reading defenses?no i agree with u. i just found it funny bc imo the answer to ur question to that poster "how could you not..." is rhetorical and obvious...

Drez
01-21-2013, 11:17 PM
no i agree with u. i just found it funny bc imo the answer to ur question to that poster "how could you not..." is rhetorical and obvious...You'd get the beer mug emoticon if we still had it, lol.

Drez
01-21-2013, 11:18 PM
And holds on for the ball way too long.

He's still a good qb, but I wouldn't say he's better than Eli.Which is one of the ways by which you can tell he's not good at reading defenses.

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 11:25 PM
You'd get the beer mug emoticon if we still had it, lol.lol...is that u chaosist...jk

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 11:28 PM
Which is one of the ways by which you can tell he's not good at reading defenses.i mean theres also legit data that proves this. Andrew Luck ran Aryans offense, and watching Indy play as much as I did (I was intrigued by Luck), he RARELY ever held onto it, scrambled outside the pocket to extend the play, break a tackle and throw it downfield the way Ben used to do 1/4 of the time...he was constantly making throws on time in the 3, 5, 7 step drop backs...granted, luck made a bunch of mistakes but hes young and mistakes aer almost encouraged with a developing qb bc it gives them something to learn from...watch Luck, a rookie, run the same offense Ben ran for years, and tell me Ben was breaking down defenses and reading coverages, as well as eli at least...

giantsfan420
01-21-2013, 11:31 PM
and then even the offense they instilled this season didnt place a big priority on reading defenses. it was all a bunch of quick hitter, high % throws...and ben had issues with it bc it removed an aspect he relied so heavily on, holding onto the ball, extending the play, and waitin for a wr to get behind the D...

BuffyBlueII
01-21-2013, 11:54 PM
and then even the offense they instilled this season didnt place a big priority on reading defenses. it was all a bunch of quick hitter, high % throws...and ben had issues with it bc it removed an aspect he relied so heavily on, holding onto the ball, extending the play, and waitin for a wr to get behind the D...A big part of the new scheme over there was to try and save Ben from some of the beatings he usually takes to save him from getting injured so much. The problem with it is that they didn't call for Ben to go downfield in situations where they nedded him to and that helped the oppossing defenses figure them out because they became a litte too conservative and Ben wound up getting injured anyway and it hurt them.I think Eli is a little bit better than Ben but it is close between the two, real close.

GTGiantsFan
01-22-2013, 12:01 AM
Eli is an elite quarterback, but as long as he steps onto the football field he has something to prove. He needs to prove he can continue winning championships and play effectively every season.

Robert21156
01-22-2013, 12:07 AM
Because he was the 1st pick of the draft and quite frankly hasn't played like a #1 draft pick most of his career. He was awful his first few seasons and mediocre the year he first won the SB.

Take away the 2011 9-7 season in which the Giants got hot and won the Super Bowl and a helmet catch in 2007 and he is simply known as a loser. Plain and simple, a play here and a play there can change a player's legacy completely. We're still waiting for the breakout season, a season where the #1 pick plays like a MVP. I'm one of Eli's biggest fans but I like to keep it real.


With that said he CARRIED the team last year to the Super Bowl. Eli is clutch, there is a certain mystique about him. I fully expect Eli to have a better season next year especially if Nicks is healthy.
SO, maybe YOU are "still waiting for the breakout season" when most of us know that we saw it in 2011. Almost 5k yards and mostly heroic efforts. You did say that he carried the team last year to the Super Bowl and that's correct. That's likely Eli's pinnacle, but hopefully he'll be very competitive for the
next few years and maybe get another Super Bowl win with the Giants. It is difficult to be great when your defense has given up over 6k yards TWICE in their history, and when did that happen? Back to back in 2011 and 2012.

Eli is very good, but the bar is now set at winning the Super Bowl and with a better offensive line and better defensive play we may get another one. Perhaps you could apply for Kildrive's job and "keep it real" with better playcalling.

Robert21156
01-22-2013, 12:15 AM
Living and dieing with the long ball? Perhaps that's why he's/we're inconsistent. Going 3 and out and not finding a rhythm.
In 2011 our receivers actually created separation and Eli made nice intermediate throws. This year, with Nicks being hurt and Cruz getting A LOT more attention, we didn't create that separation and therefore the passing game suffered. If you are a QB and a receiver gets early separation, he's getting the ball thrown to him. I'd imagine Eli would look a lot better throwing to Julio Jones, Roddy White, and Tony Gonzalez, guys who STAY HEALTHY and create separation AND can catch the ball in a crowd due to their physical stature/abilities.

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 12:19 AM
A big part of the new scheme over there was to try and save Ben from some of the beatings he usually takes to save him from getting injured so much. The problem with it is that they didn't call for Ben to go downfield in situations where they nedded him to and that helped the oppossing defenses figure them out because they became a litte too conservative and Ben wound up getting injured anyway and it hurt them.I think Eli is a little bit better than Ben but it is close between the two, real close.i agree. but i think u helped prove my point, they went to their new offense to try and save ben from the beatings he was taking holding onto the ball...which imo has a lot to do with his ability to read coverages bc they went to such a simplistic, high % offense

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 12:20 AM
Eli is an elite quarterback, but as long as he steps onto the football field he has something to prove. He needs to prove he can continue winning championships and play effectively every season.nice post. id say that we all, well for the most part, understand this

Marvelousmik
01-22-2013, 12:42 AM
Yes, I did. And it's a fair question. How can someone who follows football, especially if they say they watch a lot of Steelers football, not know that Ben isn't the best at reading defenses?

No one said ben was the best at reading defenses. I dont know who the best is at reading defenses and neither do you. What i can tell you is who is good at it. And the fact that you reworded it that way shows that you already feel insecure about your argument. Lets stick with your original claim. You stated the following;


Ben doesn't read defenses well enough to play in the system that we currently have in place..

My question to you is, how can someone who has been to 3 super bowls, won 2 of them, have a low interception ratio, and has played the quarterback position at a high level consistently, where some even regard him as a top 5 guy at that position not be able to read defenses at a high level?

The Guy plays against the ravens twice a year and practices against the steelers almost every day during the regular season. He has pretty much gone up against the best and has been successful in doing so. On top of that he has been a starter for 9 years. Its pretty simple. If you're an NFL Quarterback and you arent good at reading defenses you wont be a starter for long.

So How is it possible that big ben is so successful at "throwing the football" but isnt good at reading defenses?

I can't wait to see your answer. And if you say its because he is able to extend plays then that defeats the purpose of your point from the very start about him not being able to play in our system. Because by that logic, wouldnt he make up for it by extending plays when he reads the defense wrong?

By saying Ben doesn't read defenses well enough to play for the giants, and in general that he isnt good at reading defenses, you're down playing his accomplishments and underestimating him as a QB.

Discuss.

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 01:12 AM
werent u the same guy telling everyone about elis "not strong arm"? and when people asked you how u could say that based on us winning 2 sbs in an offense that almost exclusively goes downfield, u told them how illogical it was to use that as a premise...and yet, here we are, a month later, and you are using premises(instead of arm strength, its bens ability to read defenses; both dont have a set formula to measure) you disqualified to support ur stance, which technically is the definition of hypocritical...lmao @ u "logic" sig...classic.

Marvelousmik
01-22-2013, 01:39 AM
werent u the same guy telling everyone about elis "not strong arm"? and when people asked you how u could say that based on us winning 2 sbs in an offense that almost exclusively goes downfield, u told them how illogical it was to use that as a premise...and yet, here we are, a month later, and you are using premises(instead of arm strength, its bens ability to read defenses; both dont have a set formula to measure) you disqualified to support ur stance, which technically is the definition of hypocritical...lmao @ u "logic" sig...classic.

That premise is illogical because a strong arm/throwing the football far cannot be determined by how many super bowls you won or by how many times you throw the ball 40+ yards down field during a game.

You cant say "eli has a strong arm because he threw the ball 40+ yards more times than any qb" because 40+ yards could mean 45 yard passes. Rg3 has a strong arm but they dont throw the ball down field as much as the giants because of the system he plays in.Tom brady has a rocket for a deep ball but they use a lot of short passes in their system.

You cant just generalize having a strong arm by saying someone throws the ball 40+ yards more because there are too many factors as to why a QB might throw the ball deep.

And to add to that, Its been a while since i checked how far i could throw but im confident i could throw a football 40 yards in the air and i am sure most of us here can. If someone was to give me a million dollars for throwing a football 40+yards 30 times right now, id be a rich man. I think Eli has an average arm but that is off topic.

BuffyBlueII
01-22-2013, 03:12 AM
i agree. but i think u helped prove my point, they went to their new offense to try and save ben from the beatings he was taking holding onto the ball...which imo has a lot to do with his ability to read coverages bc they went to such a simplistic, high % offense

To go away from your point, they didn’t incorporate the risky downfield play enough when they needed it and that hurt Ben. The offense was a bit too conservative. I think it will evolve. I don’t like Ben at all but he is an awesome QB.

GameTime
01-22-2013, 07:57 AM
We expected and paid for an elite QB. He's delivered 2 Super Bowls while being elite for one season.

Everyone wants to win. Not everyone plays like it on Sundays however.
they want a QB to help bring the team super bowls not be "elite"......
Marino was elite.....Peyton is elite.......1 SB between them......
get the picture...

Buddy333
01-22-2013, 08:09 AM
they want a QB to help bring the team super bowls not be "elite"......Marino was elite.....Peyton is elite.......1 SB between them......get the picture...Many good players have never won a Super Bowl. Also, no QB has ever beaten another QB.

GameTime
01-22-2013, 08:14 AM
Many good players have never won a Super Bowl. Also, no QB has ever beaten another QB.
thats was my point to Rosie. He said "we paid for an elite QB and expect one. He has only played elite one season"

Thats why I responded as such

Buddy333
01-22-2013, 08:20 AM
thats was my point to Rosie. He said "we paid for an elite QB and expect one. He has only played elite one season"Thats why I responded as suchAgree. The term elite gets thrown around way to much. He is capable of being very good at times and not so good some other times. That's why so many have been saying he is inconsistent. They won't win it every year. We all know that. Just think that when you make a guy your franchise QB and make him a $100 million QB you would like to see more consistency. Hey, doesn't matter anyway. Nobody remembered the second place team and as was said, can't win it every year.

Drez
01-22-2013, 08:32 AM
No one said ben was the best at reading defenses. I dont know who the best is at reading defenses and neither do you. What i can tell you is who is good at it. And the fact that you reworded it that way shows that you already feel insecure about your argument. Lets stick with your original claim. You stated the following;



My question to you is, how can someone who has been to 3 super bowls, won 2 of them, have a low interception ratio, and has played the quarterback position at a high level consistently, where some even regard him as a top 5 guy at that position not be able to read defenses at a high level?

The Guy plays against the ravens twice a year and practices against the steelers almost every day during the regular season. He has pretty much gone up against the best and has been successful in doing so. On top of that he has been a starter for 9 years. Its pretty simple. If you're an NFL Quarterback and you arent good at reading defenses you wont be a starter for long.

So How is it possible that big ben is so successful at "throwing the football" but isnt good at reading defenses?

I can't wait to see your answer. And if you say its because he is able to extend plays then that defeats the purpose of your point from the very start about him not being able to play in our system. Because by that logic, wouldnt he make up for it by extending plays when he reads the defense wrong?

By saying Ben doesn't read defenses well enough to play for the giants, and in general that he isnt good at reading defenses, you're down playing his accomplishments and underestimating him as a QB.

Discuss.
You can tell he doesn't read defenses well by lack of presnap adjustments. You can tell he doesn't read defenses well because he holds onto the ball for an extremely long time. His size allows him a significant amount of leeway when plays break down, and in fact that's when it's said he's at his best... When he no longer has to read what a defense is trying to do and just waits for one his guys finds an open spot.

And you are completely ignorant of our system if thinking that because he can extend plays that would play into our system.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 08:48 AM
No one said ben was the best at reading defenses. I dont know who the best is at reading defenses and neither do you. What i can tell you is who is good at it. And the fact that you reworded it that way shows that you already feel insecure about your argument. Lets stick with your original claim. You stated the following;



My question to you is, how can someone who has been to 3 super bowls, won 2 of them, have a low interception ratio, and has played the quarterback position at a high level consistently, where some even regard him as a top 5 guy at that position not be able to read defenses at a high level?

The Guy plays against the ravens twice a year and practices against the steelers almost every day during the regular season. He has pretty much gone up against the best and has been successful in doing so. On top of that he has been a starter for 9 years. Its pretty simple. If you're an NFL Quarterback and you arent good at reading defenses you wont be a starter for long.

So How is it possible that big ben is so successful at "throwing the football" but isnt good at reading defenses?

I can't wait to see your answer. And if you say its because he is able to extend plays then that defeats the purpose of your point from the very start about him not being able to play in our system. Because by that logic, wouldnt he make up for it by extending plays when he reads the defense wrong?

By saying Ben doesn't read defenses well enough to play for the giants, and in general that he isnt good at reading defenses, you're down playing his accomplishments and underestimating him as a QB.

Discuss.


You can tell he doesn't read defenses well by lack of presnap adjustments. You can tell he doesn't read defenses well because he holds onto the ball for an extremely long time. His size allows him a significant amount of leeway when plays break down, and in fact that's when it's said he's at his best... When he no longer has to read what a defense is trying to do and just waits for one his guys finds an open spot.

And you are completely ignorant of our system if thinking that because he can extend plays that would play into our system.

What do you mean by "not reading defenses well"? Are you saying he's deficient at it? Or are you saying he's not awesome at it. It's pretty poor to say the former - especially when he's arguably a top 5 QB in the league. As for the latter, no one knows for sure how good a QB is at reading defenses unless they're in the locker room. This includes Ben, Eli, Brady, Rodgers, anyone.

We don't know how good Ben is at reading defenses anymore than we know whether it's Eli or KG that makes the decision to run the shotgun draw.

EliDaMANning
01-22-2013, 08:54 AM
I don't think he's anywhere near the top 5 list. As stated earlier, they coddle this guy like a baby and hand him a Dr. Suess playbook to study. When he tries to play like a superstar, he gets spanked around like he did vs. GB in the SB. As James Harrison said, he needs to stop acting like he's Peyton Manning and stick to handing the ball off.

Drez
01-22-2013, 09:23 AM
What do you mean by "not reading defenses well"? Are you saying he's deficient at it? Or are you saying he's not awesome at it. It's pretty poor to say the former - especially when he's arguably a top 5 QB in the league. As for the latter, no one knows for sure how good a QB is at reading defenses unless they're in the locker room. This includes Ben, Eli, Brady, Rodgers, anyone.

We don't know how good Ben is at reading defenses anymore than we know whether it's Eli or KG that makes the decision to run the shotgun draw.
Ben isn't very good at reading defenses. He's not as poor at it as say, Vick, but it's not a strength of his game. My original statement though was that he (Ben) does not read defenses well enough to run our offensive system as it is currently constructed.

GameTime
01-22-2013, 09:33 AM
I don't think he's anywhere near the top 5 list. As stated earlier, they coddle this guy like a baby and hand him a Dr. Suess playbook to study. When he tries to play like a superstar, he gets spanked around like he did vs. GB in the SB. As James Harrison said, he needs to stop acting like he's Peyton Manning and stick to handing the ball off.
you are over reacting just a bit. Ben is very good QB. BTW...tell Harrisn that he has two more SBs appreances then Peyton and one more victory. Ben is a QB that extends plays, hard to bring down, and makes some clutch passes. What is your problem with him?? Why do you think their O scheme is so simplistic??

gumby74
01-22-2013, 09:50 AM
What do you mean by "not reading defenses well"? Are you saying he's deficient at it? Or are you saying he's not awesome at it. It's pretty poor to say the former - especially when he's arguably a top 5 QB in the league. As for the latter, no one knows for sure how good a QB is at reading defenses unless they're in the locker room. This includes Ben, Eli, Brady, Rodgers, anyone.

We don't know how good Ben is at reading defenses anymore than we know whether it's Eli or KG that makes the decision to run the shotgun draw.


Ben isn't very good at reading defenses. He's not as poor at it as say, Vick, but it's not a strength of his game. My original statement though was that he (Ben) does not read defenses well enough to run our offensive system as it is currently constructed.

That's a pretty bold statement given how little anyone outside of the locker room knows.

Ruttiger711
01-22-2013, 09:52 AM
you are over reacting just a bit. Ben is very good QB. BTW...tell Harrisn that he has two more SBs appreances then Peyton and one more victory. Ben is a QB that extends plays, hard to bring down, and makes some clutch passes. What is your problem with him?? Why do you think their O scheme is so simplistic??

In the past, the center on the Steelers makes all the pre-snap reads. Not Ben - in that sense its less of a burden on Ben, but he still has to account for the call being made.

Drez
01-22-2013, 09:57 AM
That's a pretty bold statement given how little anyone outside of the locker room knows.No, it isn't. You don't need to be in the locker room to know if a guy is good at reading defenses.

You may not want to believe that your idol Ben may be lacking in a certain area of his game, but it doesn't change the fact that he's not particularly good at it and could not run our offense efficiently as it is currently constructed. Had he been drafted by us and given extra coaching in that area, maybe.

Roosevelt
01-22-2013, 09:58 AM
Eli is an elite quarterback, but as long as he steps onto the football field he has something to prove. He needs to prove he can continue winning championships and play effectively every season.


I don't think Eli needs to prove he can win a championship because he's already done it twice. But after considering him elite in 2011, I don't see it any longer. He's proven himself to be too inconsistent.

Roosevelt
01-22-2013, 10:06 AM
they want a QB to help bring the team super bowls not be "elite"......
Marino was elite.....Peyton is elite.......1 SB between them......
get the picture...

Absolutely.

What I'm saying is we have a QB that has proven he can win it, yet 9 years in he's still very inconsistent. Do the trophies give him a pass?

GameTime
01-22-2013, 10:11 AM
Absolutely.

What I'm saying is we have a QB that has proven he can win it, yet 9 years in he's still very inconsistent. Do the the trophies give him a pass?

No they don't. They only reason I say that is because while as a fan I know the Giants cant with the B every year you still want them to.
Eli as well as all QBs, teams, coaches, etc have something to prove every season. The only time that arguement can end is when he is done playing football. Then you can say...well yeah he was inconsistent but he has 2 SB (hopefully more) wins. It was a good run.
I dont give Eli a pass ever. OR the Giants as a team for that matter

gumby74
01-22-2013, 10:32 AM
No, it isn't. You don't need to be in the locker room to know if a guy is good at reading defenses.

You may not want to believe that your idol Ben may be lacking in a certain area of his game, but it doesn't change the fact that he's not particularly good at it and could not run our offense efficiently as it is currently constructed. Had he been drafted by us and given extra coaching in that area, maybe.

So enlighten me, how can we tell on TV if a QB reads defenses well? It goes WAY beyond, "he makes adjustments at the line". Was the the right adjustment? What was the strategy to attack the defense coming in? What is the tendency of the defense to disguise their look? Have they seen this before? There are a million questions. The only thing we know is that if a QB reads the defense well enough to win.

And keep in mind that short of 2011 Eli hasn't exactly been playing like gangbusters. Are we going to put the poor decision to throw deep to Barden on Eli? How about the shot gun draw? There was conjecture in some articles saying that defenses were "luring" Eli into bad decisions. What about all th e miscommunication between Eli and the WRs where they read it one way and Eli read it another. Does Eli have problems reading defenses also? We don't know. No one does.

And you think that Ben won't run our offense as efficiently? Each QB brings a different skill set to the table. How could you possibly make this assumption.

Seriously dude? At least give me a couple articles to read to support that what you are "seeing" isn't just something completely out of left field. At least when I complain about Eli's accuracy and inconsistency, others have seen it too.

Ruttiger711
01-22-2013, 10:40 AM
So enlighten me, how can we tell on TV if a QB reads defenses well? It goes WAY beyond, "he makes adjustments at the line". Was the the right adjustment? What was the strategy to attack the defense coming in? What is the tendency of the defense to disguise their look? Have they seen this before? There are a million questions. The only thing we know is that if a QB reads the defense well enough to win.

And keep in mind that short of 2011 Eli hasn't exactly been playing like gangbusters. Are we going to put the poor decision to throw deep to Barden on Eli? How about the shot gun draw? There was conjecture in some articles saying that defenses were "luring" Eli into bad decisions. What about all th e miscommunication between Eli and the WRs where they read it one way and Eli read it another. Why don't we blame it all on Eli? Does Eli have problems reading defenses also? We don't know. No one does. Heck, find me a single article on Big Ben not being able to read defenses well. It's not even an observable deficiency made by others. Just yourself.

And you think that Ben won't run our offense as efficiently? Each QB brings a different skill set to the table. How could you possibly make this assumption.

Seriously dude? At least give me a couple articles to read to support that what you are "seeing" isn't just something completely out of left field. At least when I complain about Eli's accuracy and inconsistency, others have seen it too.

You really only have to watch past Steelers games to see the pre-snap reads are not Ben's responsibilites. Whether well or not - its not his job, making what he has to do simpler, but really more traditional in the way things were "pre-Peyton".

Watch Ben's last 2 throws in his last 2 games this past season. Hard to say he's reading defenses too well. I cant recall Eli ending the team's season in the way Ben did.

Markroman
01-22-2013, 10:53 AM
Eli only has something to prove to himself. That is how it should be.

He is one of the least of our worries.

Pick a QB who would have done what he has done with all the "pressures" of being in NY. Many have fallen.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 11:00 AM
You really only have to watch past Steelers games to see the pre-snap reads are not Ben's responsibilites. Whether well or not - its not his job, making what he has to do simpler, but really more traditional in the way things were "pre-Peyton".

Watch Ben's last 2 throws in his last 2 games this past season. Hard to say he's reading defenses too well. I cant recall Eli ending the team's season in the way Ben did.

I think it's a fair assumption to say that Eli definitely does more than Ben in their current offenses. As someone who watches every Steelers game, that is obvious.

But it's difficult to tell if one struggles in a particular area and to also say that one would not do as well in our current offense is pretty out there. And that's my main point. It's impossible to tell. As a Giant fan, we've witnessed plenty to potentially say that Eli doesn't read defenses well either. But, the most of don't. Why? No one knows for sure what "should" have been. Eli has had more than his share of head scratchers and "miscommuniations/misreads".

Ruttiger711
01-22-2013, 11:04 AM
I think it's a fair assumption to say that Eli definitely does more than Ben in their current offenses. As someone who watches every Steelers game, that is obvious.

But it's difficult to tell if one struggles in a particular area and to also say that one would not do as well in our current offense is pretty out there. And that's my main point. It's impossible to tell. As a Giant fan, we've witnessed plenty to potentially say that Eli doesn't read defenses well either. But, the most of don't. Why? No one knows for sure what "should" have been. Eli has had more than his share of head scratchers and "miscommuniations/misreads".

Any reason you watch all the Steelers' games? Location? My wife's a Steelers fan so we had to get the NFL ticket, so unless the Gmen are on Ive seen every pitt game for a long time now as well.

Roosevelt
01-22-2013, 11:18 AM
Eli only has something to prove to himself. That is how it should be.

He is one of the least of our worries.

Pick a QB who would have done what he has done with all the "pressures" of being in NY. Many have fallen.


Interesting that you are satisfied with his play last season.

Marvelousmik
01-22-2013, 11:25 AM
You can tell he doesn't read defenses well by lack of presnap adjustments. You can tell he doesn't read defenses well because he holds onto the ball for an extremely long time. His size allows him a significant amount of leeway when plays break down, and in fact that's when it's said he's at his best... When he no longer has to read what a defense is trying to do and just waits for one his guys finds an open spot.

I thought so. You stated something like its fact, but have no proof, or valid ways of knowing if its true. When he holds onto the ball for too long you're assuming its because he cant read defenses when there are other factors that might play into that. Such as not having a guy open. You're also assuming he doesn't make much pre snap adjustments when you have no idea of what the steelers pre snap language means before the play. Also, Not adjusting the play doesnt mean you cant read the defense.


And you are completely ignorant of our system if thinking that because he can extend plays that would play into our system.

You should probably relax a little bit with this system stuff. I think you're blowing it a little too far out of context. Next thing you know "if you play in our system you cannot drink Gatorade on the sidelines because its too complicated and you need to focus."

if rg3 or kappernick played for the giants or for any other team, their ability to run with the football would still be an advantage for them and their team offensively. having the ability to extend plays or run when things break down is a good thing. If a QB has that ability its a plus for the offense no matter what system they are in.

You're overlooking something very important here because i think you're trying to complicate things too much. That being said, You dont have to agree with anything ive said or change your position. I just want you to think about the question you didnt answer. As a matter a fact you dont even have to answer it.

Do you really believe that a Qb could be successful in the NFL as Ben has at throwing the football, and play at that level consistently without being able to read defenses well or have a good understanding of the different coverage's?

You dont have to reply right away or even reply at all. Just think about that for a minute or two.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 11:49 AM
Any reason you watch all the Steelers' games? Location? My wife's a Steelers fan so we had to get the NFL ticket, so unless the Gmen are on Ive seen every pitt game for a long time now as well.

A long, long time ago in a galaxy far far away, I spent a good portion of my youth (early elementary) near Pitt - staying with my uncle who was a Steeler fan. He'd take me to the games every other week. Needless to say, the Steelers were my first team and how I got into football. I go to my brother's who has NFL Ticket. Once we moved to the east coast, I became a Giant fan.

Marvelousmik
01-22-2013, 12:01 PM
So enlighten me, how can we tell on TV if a QB reads defenses well? It goes WAY beyond, "he makes adjustments at the line". Was the the right adjustment? What was the strategy to attack the defense coming in? What is the tendency of the defense to disguise their look? Have they seen this before? There are a million questions. The only thing we know is that if a QB reads the defense well enough to win.

And keep in mind that short of 2011 Eli hasn't exactly been playing like gangbusters. Are we going to put the poor decision to throw deep to Barden on Eli? How about the shot gun draw? There was conjecture in some articles saying that defenses were "luring" Eli into bad decisions. What about all th e miscommunication between Eli and the WRs where they read it one way and Eli read it another. Does Eli have problems reading defenses also? We don't know. No one does.

And you think that Ben won't run our offense as efficiently? Each QB brings a different skill set to the table. How could you possibly make this assumption.

Seriously dude? At least give me a couple articles to read to support that what you are "seeing" isn't just something completely out of left field. At least when I complain about Eli's accuracy and inconsistency, others have seen it too.

Exactly.

GTGiantsFan
01-22-2013, 12:24 PM
Everybody knows Big Ben isn't good at reading defenses, relax guys.

Roosevelt
01-22-2013, 12:39 PM
Everybody knows Big Ben isn't good at reading defenses, relax guys.

I don't think that was the sort of supporting evidence he was looking for.