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View Full Version : Is Joe Flacco the AFC version of Eli Manning?



TheBookOfEli
01-21-2013, 03:17 PM
I can't help but see how strikingly similar Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are. Of course Eli has the 2 rings but both are wildly inconsistent but come crunch time, including playoff time, these 2 always show up. I would love to one day see these 2 go at it in a Superbowl.

Both even have similar nicknames- Joe Cool and Easy E.

Cloud57
01-21-2013, 03:19 PM
oh snap, the people on this board will we coming after you.

thomasjmarino
01-21-2013, 03:24 PM
Manning to Tyree------MVP
Manning to Manningham-------MVP
Flacco to ??????????--------???

To be continued.....

TheBookOfEli
01-21-2013, 03:42 PM
I don't understand why people would be coming after me. Yes i know Eli has the rings but Flacco i believe will play very well in the Superbowl and help his team win it all.

Cloud57
01-21-2013, 03:46 PM
I don't understand why people would be coming after me. Yes i know Eli has the rings but Flacco i believe will play very well in the Superbowl and help his team win it all.Some people don't think Eli is in the same class as Flacco but more like Brady lol. But I agree with you Flacco has played great this year.

titwio
01-21-2013, 04:13 PM
At least we know the formula for getting to the Super Bowl...just proclaim your an elite QB (Eli, Joe) before the season the starts and your a lock.

TheAnalyst
01-21-2013, 04:17 PM
I agree with the OP. Flacco has that look this year. Very cool and calm. He interviews better though and has a stronger arm. But some of the passes he threw yesterday reminded me of Eli for sure.

I actually feel like this is the Giants 07 season for the Ravens. QB in 4th season, Superstar on defense retiring, Solid run games, underdogs in the SB. Eli beat Favre @ home in the playoffs, Flacco beat Manning / Brady @ home on the way... Flacco actually just broke Eli's road W record in the postseason. And both got the "elite" thing labeled to them and were criticized about it.

BigBlue1971
01-21-2013, 04:25 PM
Flacco has turned his team around starting with the Giants win! if he does win the superbowl i can see the similarities of getting on a good run and finishing!

Flacco did replace Eli as the winningest "road warrior" qb!

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 04:42 PM
He is a very good QB but people on this board are threatened by this because it may put him in the same class as Eli.

Delicreep
01-21-2013, 04:44 PM
He is a very good QB but people on this board are threatened by this because it may put him in the same class as Eli.

and what class would that be?

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 04:46 PM
They are both good QB's.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 04:46 PM
they are both pocket passers. I would have to look at stats but I bet Flacco throws less and maybe a bit more consistent

GTGiantsFan
01-21-2013, 04:48 PM
Flacco is a bit worse than Eli, Eli is a better precision passer (can put the ball on the money) but Flacco has the better arm and can put balls up for grabs and his WR's will get it.

Delicreep
01-21-2013, 04:49 PM
They are both good QB's.

Swing and a miss.

GameTime
01-21-2013, 04:49 PM
Swing and a miss.
why is that a miss???

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 04:50 PM
Swing and a miss.Why is that?

titwio
01-21-2013, 04:52 PM
Flacco is a bit worse than Eli, Eli is a better precision passer (can put the ball on the money) but Flacco has the better arm and can put balls up for grabs and his WR's will get it.

That's an Eli trademark.

TheBookOfEli
01-21-2013, 04:54 PM
That's an Eli trademark.

Yeah that's what i was saying lol. Plenty of times where i've seen Nicks just out jump his guy and snatch the ball.

Flip Empty
01-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Yeah I think they're comparable, sure. Both have similar, emotionless demeanours on-field, and have been derided by their own fans and media alike.

Delicreep
01-21-2013, 04:58 PM
Why is that?

You know and I know and everybody else knows that if Flacco wins it all, it will not start a discussion, "Is Joe Flacco a good QB".

It will start the "Is Joe Flacco elite" discussion. And Eli will be extensively used in the discussion. What will be difficult for some on this board is that Eli will actually be used as an example that Flacco has to meet to be considered elite.

But since there is zero chance that you would describe Ei as Elite, you deftly sidestepped the obvious.

GTGiantsFan
01-21-2013, 04:59 PM
That's an Eli trademark.

Eli usually throws those kind of balls with a lot more accuracy, Flacco is just a prayer.

JesseJames
01-21-2013, 05:06 PM
I think Flacco throws a better ball than Eli, tight spiral with speed.

gumby74
01-21-2013, 05:11 PM
You know and I know and everybody else knows that if Flacco wins it all, it will not start a discussion, "Is Joe Flacco a good QB".

It will start the "Is Joe Flacco elite" discussion. And Eli will be extensively used in the discussion. What will be difficult for some on this board is that Eli will actually be used as an example that Flacco has to meet to be considered elite.

But since there is zero chance that you would describe Ei as Elite, you deftly sidestepped the obvious.

It's simple. If you thought that Eli was elite after his 2007 SB win, you better think that Flacco is also elite. Anything else is a double standard.

gmen0820
01-21-2013, 05:15 PM
I think Flacco throws a better ball than Eli, tight spiral with speed.Almost everyone throws a better ball than Eli.

And Peyton for that matter.

Drez
01-21-2013, 05:18 PM
Almost everyone throws a better ball than Eli.

And Peyton for that matter.
Oddly enough, I think that's one of the reasons why Eli gets so much flak. Just because his passes don't look pretty, people belittle his skill. The whole perception vs. reality.

gmen0820
01-21-2013, 05:21 PM
Oddly enough, I think that's one of the reasons why Eli gets so much flak. Just because his passes don't look pretty, people belittle his skill. The whole perception vs. reality.Oh for sure, definitely. It bothered me a ton prior to last year.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 05:33 PM
The term elite is thrown around way to much. They are both good QB's.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-21-2013, 05:40 PM
who cares? Eli is our QB and I am damn happy to have him, goofiness and all.

gmen0820
01-21-2013, 05:42 PM
If Flacco wins the SB, will it be too early to start talking H.O.F?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-21-2013, 06:52 PM
What is with all these RIDICULOUS posts comparing other QB's of much lesser stature to Eli....... it's such a joke stop it.

Delicreep
01-21-2013, 07:28 PM
It's simple. If you thought that Eli was elite after his 2007 SB win, you better think that Flacco is also elite. Anything else is a double standard.

I don't think you are following me:

If the birds win, you, Gumby74 (and Buddy33), will be exposed to a great many talking heads who will say that Flacco ain't no Eli.

You will hear, "yes, but Manning..." over and over again.

And if Flacco doesn't get MVP, then you will hear how Manning has two.

If he does get MVP, you will also hear how Manning has two.

You see this coming, right? This is exactly what talking heads do; there is no stopping it. Best case for you is that a few do compare Eli and Flacco favorably and you can hold onto that, and ignore the massive number of talking heads who will say that Eli is in another class.

gumby74
01-21-2013, 07:46 PM
I don't think you are following me:

If the birds win, you, Gumby74 (and Buddy33), will be exposed to a great many talking heads who will say that Flacco ain't no Eli.

You will hear, "yes, but Manning..." over and over again.

And if Flacco doesn't get MVP, then you will hear how Manning has two.

If he does get MVP, you will also hear how Manning has two.

You see this coming, right? This is exactly what talking heads do; there is no stopping it. Best case for you is that a few do compare Eli and Flacco favorably and you can hold onto that, and ignore the massive number of talking heads who will say that Eli is in another class.

Ha. More nonsense the merrier. I'll say this. Flacco is better than Eli at the same point in their career imo. But as it is now, Flacco is not as good as Eli - even if Flacco win's a SB.

If Flacco does win a SB, he'll be under similar scrutiny that Eli did when he won his first. The 2 QBs just aren't very - for lack of a better word, convincing. And until they are more convincing, the public will be all over them.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 07:55 PM
Still don't get at its wrong to say they are both good QB's:

Delicreep
01-21-2013, 08:20 PM
Ha. More nonsense the merrier. I'll say this. Flacco is better than Eli at the same point in their career imo. But as it is now, Flacco is not as good as Eli - even if Flacco win's a SB.

If Flacco does win a SB, he'll be under similar scrutiny that Eli did when he won his first. The 2 QBs just aren't very - for lack of a better word, convincing. And until they are more convincing, the public will be all over them.

Wow...didn't think you would set me up like that. Or were you just looking for a preview of what you will hear post SB?

"Whatever questions there were after Eli won his first SB, the were pretty much erased when he won his second (and second MVP)."
"A lot of guys have won 1 SB, but just a few have one more than one"
"Only 5 guys have more than one MVP--Eli is one of 'em"
"Beat the most dominant team of the decade...twice!!"

By the way, the public is not all over Eli any longer.
The public is trying to decide if Eli belongs in the HOF.

AllHailEli
01-21-2013, 08:59 PM
I think it really helps to be an underdog where people are writing you off and have so much less expectations. If Flacco lost, what else could have people said that hadn't been said anyway? You can always improve from that and might as well shut up the critics and the detractors along the way. I think Brady, otoh, is in some kind of a slump, and his poor play during the postseason may be mental. I think he's feeling the pressure that keeps building up since he lost in 2008, and he could not get out of the funk. It's an enormous responsibility to be in the precipice of history. Hopefully, Eli, whenever he gets a chance again in the Super Bowl (next year at MetLife cough cough) will not wilt against the pressure.

Roosevelt
01-21-2013, 09:01 PM
I can't help but see how strikingly similar Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are. Of course Eli has the 2 rings but both are wildly inconsistent but come crunch time, including playoff time, these 2 always show up. I would love to one day see these 2 go at it in a Superbowl.

Both even have similar nicknames- Joe Cool and Easy E.

We could even the score from 2000.

gmen0820
01-21-2013, 09:22 PM
Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger, Luck, are all guys that I'd take over Flacco, just from the AFC. If he is barely cracking the top five in his own conference, how can he be the AFC version of a bonafide top 5 NFL QB?

JJC7301
01-21-2013, 09:41 PM
I've been hard on Flacco because I'm sick of hearing about good he was for the past 4 years without accomplishing anything, but his team is always in the playoffs and they play in a very tough division with the Steelers.

Yeah, I understand the Manning comparisons. They make sense. If Flacco wins the SB, he'll get more props and deservedly so.

gumby74
01-21-2013, 09:42 PM
Ha. More nonsense the merrier. I'll say this. Flacco is better than Eli at the same point in their career imo. But as it is now, Flacco is not as good as Eli - even if Flacco win's a SB.

If Flacco does win a SB, he'll be under similar scrutiny that Eli did when he won his first. The 2 QBs just aren't very - for lack of a better word, convincing. And until they are more convincing, the public will be all over them.


Wow...didn't think you would set me up like that. Or were you just looking for a preview of what you will hear post SB?

"Whatever questions there were after Eli won his first SB, the were pretty much erased when he won his second (and second MVP)."
"A lot of guys have won 1 SB, but just a few have one more than one"
"Only 5 guys have more than one MVP--Eli is one of 'em"
"Beat the most dominant team of the decade...twice!!"

By the way, the public is not all over Eli any longer.
The public is trying to decide if Eli belongs in the HOF.

Actually, i think you read too much into my post. Just take what I wrote at face value. When I say that the public are all over Eli/Flacco, i just mean that they will continue to be criticized by the media. In Eli's case, it's his inconsistency. In Flacco's case, I don't know what it is. But I'm very unimpressed.

But I think the public is still unimpressed with Eli. Can you imagine if Rodgers had 2 rings? What about Brees? Would there be any debate if they will be in the HoF? The answer is a definite, there will be no debate. Yet, here Eli is at age 32, with 2 SB rings and people are still debating and wondering.

Buddy333
01-21-2013, 09:45 PM
I've been hard on Flacco because I'm sick of hearing about good he was for the past 4 years without accomplishing anything, but his team is always in the playoffs and they play in a very tough division with the Steelers. Yeah, I understand the Manning comparisons. They make sense. If Flacco wins the SB, he'll get more props and deservedly so.He has actually been very good in the post season which is almost every year.

WiIdcat
01-21-2013, 10:35 PM
I can't help but see how strikingly similar Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are. Of course Eli has the 2 rings but both are wildly inconsistent but come crunch time, including playoff time, these 2 always show up. I would love to one day see these 2 go at it in a Superbowl.

Both even have similar nicknames- Joe Cool and Easy E.

It's crazy but at Joe's point in his career, he really is the Eli of the AFC. Super Bowl wins aside, Flacco put up better numbers in his 5th year (this year) than Eli did in his. But, Eli played at an elite, top 5 level last year. That's something that Joe Flacco has come nowhere close to at this point in his career.

GameTime
01-22-2013, 08:04 AM
why does EVERY QB have to be compared or measured up to Eli.....
so ****ing lame.....

Rudyy
01-22-2013, 08:50 AM
why does EVERY QB have to be compared or measured up to Eli.....so ****ing lame.....Lol isn't it great?

gumby74
01-22-2013, 08:50 AM
why does EVERY QB have to be compared or measured up to Eli.....
so ****ing lame.....

If it weren't for people getting all pissy about Eli, this place would be far less entertaining ...

Buddy333
01-22-2013, 08:53 AM
why does EVERY QB have to be compared or measured up to Eli.....so ****ing lame.....You can't spell elite without Eli.

GameTime
01-22-2013, 09:35 AM
You can't spell elite without Eli.

Apparently if Flacco wins you won't be able to spell Elite without Joe either.....:)

wuzpapn
01-22-2013, 09:48 AM
Flacco isn't Eli status until he can grow the Fu Manchu again.



http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/0118/bos_a_flacco_cr_576.jpg
http://www.sportsbully.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Manning-Bros.jpg

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 12:16 PM
If it weren't for people getting all pissy about Eli, this place would be far less entertaining ...

I feel I have failed you. I clearly have not gotten my point across to you.

Let me try it in the least subtle way possible: If the birds win, you are literally be deluged with talking head after talking head basically saying that 97% of your posts about Eli are dead wrong, and that Eli has a status you absolutely deny, decry and defy.

That's the part I personally am finding entertaining; that and the fact that you know it's coming.

If the birds loose...wow, will you hear about "being clutch".

See...I am on the other side; not an "Eli is elite" guy, but smart enough to see that the dude is special.

GameTime
01-22-2013, 12:22 PM
I feel I have failed you. I clearly have not gotten my point across to you.

Let me try it in the least subtle way possible: If the birds win, you are literally be deluged with talking head after talking head basically saying that 97% of your posts about Eli are dead wrong, and that Eli has a status you absolutely deny, decry and defy.

That's the part I personally am finding entertaining; that and the fact that you know it's coming.

If the birds loose...wow, will you hear about "being clutch".

See...I am on the other side; not an "Eli is elite" guy, but smart enough to see that the dude is special.
and if Flacco and the Ravens win he will be special to Raven's fans.....

Rudyy
01-22-2013, 12:25 PM
And if another quarterback wins, they claim the status of Eli's "eliteness" or whatever. What kind of crap is that? Some of you worry me.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 12:29 PM
I feel I have failed you. I clearly have not gotten my point across to you.

Let me try it in the least subtle way possible: If the birds win, you are literally be deluged with talking head after talking head basically saying that 97% of your posts about Eli are dead wrong, and that Eli has a status you absolutely deny, decry and defy.

That's the part I personally am finding entertaining; that and the fact that you know it's coming.

If the birds loose...wow, will you hear about "being clutch".

See...I am on the other side; not an "Eli is elite" guy, but smart enough to see that the dude is special.

Hold on. Do you even know what my stance on Eli is? What would I be wrong about? Don't get me mixed up with other people. My only judgement on Eli is this: Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers.

And I've been saying this for years.

You may not believe it, but as long as the Giants win, I don't give 2 craps about Eli - if he's elite, top 5, top 10, or whatever. I have 0 emotional attachment to him. What draws me to Eli conversations is the same kind of thing that draws me to people defending Tebow or Sanchez.

DandyDon
01-22-2013, 03:59 PM
At least we know the formula for getting to the Super Bowl...just proclaim your an elite QB (Eli, Joe) before the season the starts and your a lock.

Apparently not?

BuffyBlueII
01-22-2013, 04:29 PM
Well I think it is a no brainer if we all had to choose. Have the statistically best QB in NFL and don’t win SuperBowl or have a QB that is not near the statistical top but rises to the occassion, is The Best in postseason and wins SuperBowls. I go with the SuperBowl wins each and every time.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 06:15 PM
Hold on. Do you even know what my stance on Eli is? What would I be wrong about? Don't get me mixed up with other people. My only judgement on Eli is this: Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers.

And I've been saying this for years.

You may not believe it, but as long as the Giants win, I don't give 2 craps about Eli - if he's elite, top 5, top 10, or whatever. I have 0 emotional attachment to him. What draws me to Eli conversations is the same kind of thing that draws me to people defending Tebow or Sanchez.

It is fair to say that if any thread is about how great Eli is, you will appear (and post repeatedly) and set the record straight about how Eli "Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers. And I've been saying this for years."

I'm simply amused by the fact that all your years of hard work to educate the masses about the "real" Eli is going to not simply be ignored by every talking head; it's about to be completely and utterly disputed and discredited repeatedly on a world wide stage.

And here's a tip for you: anytime anyone says that they 0 emotional attachment to someone, and then spends literally 90% of their time talking about them, they might not be very honest about how they feel.

For heavens sake, you say you don't care about Eli and yet your signature is two articles related to the guy! The Joker is less obsessed with Batman than you are with Eli

Trust me, if you were in my place, you would find it hilarious.

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 07:04 PM
people are so quick with the knee jerk reactions. just 2 month ago ppl were questioning if flacco was a legit franchise qb lmfao!!

and before this year, it wasnt even close between the 2. Flacco had his best year to date and it was about the same level as Eli's regular season this year lmfao!...i swear, sometimes i feel like certain posters here are shill autobots put in action by deragned computer nerd eagles fans...

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 07:06 PM
It is fair to say that if any thread is about how great Eli is, you will appear (and post repeatedly) and set the record straight about how Eli "Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers. And I've been saying this for years."

I'm simply amused by the fact that all your years of hard work to educate the masses about the "real" Eli is going to not simply be ignored by every talking head; it's about to be completely and utterly disputed and discredited repeatedly on a world wide stage.

And here's a tip for you: anytime anyone says that they 0 emotional attachment to someone, and then spends literally 90% of their time talking about them, they might not be very honest about how they feel.

For heavens sake, you say you don't care about Eli and yet your signature is two articles related to the guy! The Joker is less obsessed with Batman than you are with Eli

Trust me, if you were in my place, you would find it hilarious. and look for a thread hes in that ISNT about eli lmfao...ur post is 1000% correct. gumbys one argument that was tough to argue was his whole "the majority disagree with you" logical fallacy...but now, even the majority realize how talented and elite eli is, even after a down yr.

njsean
01-22-2013, 07:50 PM
It is fair to say that if any thread is about how great Eli is, you will appear (and post repeatedly) and set the record straight about how Eli "Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers. And I've been saying this for years."

I'm simply amused by the fact that all your years of hard work to educate the masses about the "real" Eli is going to not simply be ignored by every talking head; it's about to be completely and utterly disputed and discredited repeatedly on a world wide stage.

And here's a tip for you: anytime anyone says that they 0 emotional attachment to someone, and then spends literally 90% of their time talking about them, they might not be very honest about how they feel.

For heavens sake, you say you don't care about Eli and yet your signature is two articles related to the guy! The Joker is less obsessed with Batman than you are with Eli

Trust me, if you were in my place, you would find it hilarious.

I don't get why you keep referencing media analysts and their opinions as if what they assert have any validity and prove any real insight. In fact, the more they make any claim, the more comfortable I feel believing the opposite.

I think Flacco is very comparable to Eli and can throw deeper and scramble better. And I'm sure Raven fans would not trade for their QB for Eli, particularly after watching the game they had against each other this year. I consider that to be the best barometer in this rather subjective sport that requires so many variables to successful play of whether one player is definitively better than the other. Would the majority of the other teams fans trade their player for yours? In a league where all that matters to the fan are players that will help your team win, thats the best test.

Most Browns fans would trade for Eli. Most Ravens wouldn't. Feel confident saying Eli is better than the Browns QB and let that be enough for you.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 07:51 PM
It is fair to say that if any thread is about how great Eli is, you will appear (and post repeatedly) and set the record straight about how Eli "Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers. And I've been saying this for years."

I'm simply amused by the fact that all your years of hard work to educate the masses about the "real" Eli is going to not simply be ignored by every talking head; it's about to be completely and utterly disputed and discredited repeatedly on a world wide stage.

And here's a tip for you: anytime anyone says that they 0 emotional attachment to someone, and then spends literally 90% of their time talking about them, they might not be very honest about how they feel.

For heavens sake, you say you don't care about Eli and yet your signature is two articles related to the guy! The Joker is less obsessed with Batman than you are with Eli

Trust me, if you were in my place, you would find it hilarious.

Oh. I definitely have 0 attachment towards Eli. His fans however, I absolutely adore. I love talking Tebow almost as much as I do Eli for the exact same reason. And it has 0 to do with the player.

There's something fascinating about blind faith.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 08:03 PM
and look for a thread hes in that ISNT about eli lmfao...ur post is 1000% correct. gumbys one argument that was tough to argue was his whole "the majority disagree with you" logical fallacy...but now, even the majority realize how talented and elite eli is, even after a down yr.

Uhm. There's no disputing that Eli is talented nor that he's a top QB in this league. I have never said otherwise.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 08:03 PM
I don't get why you keep referencing media analysts and their opinions as if what they assert have any validity and prove any real insight. In fact, the more they make any claim, the more comfortable I feel believing the opposite.

I think Flacco is very comparable to Eli and can throw deeper and scramble better. And I'm sure Raven fans would not trade for their QB for Eli, particularly after watching the game they had against each other this year. I consider that to be the best barometer in this rather subjective sport that requires so many variables to successful play of whether one player is definitively better than the other. Would the majority of the other teams fans trade their player for yours? In a league where all that matters to the fan are players that will help your team win, thats the best test.

Most Browns fans would trade for Eli. Most Ravens wouldn't. Feel confident saying Eli is better than the Browns QB and let that be enough for you.

Your missing the point: I don't care about the media analysis in the slightest. It will however be like a 1,000 nails on a giant chalkboard to Gumby, and that I find hilarious and satisfying.

Oh wait...he doesn't care. He's said so in about a thousand posts.

Morehead State
01-22-2013, 08:11 PM
It is fair to say that if any thread is about how great Eli is, you will appear (and post repeatedly) and set the record straight about how Eli "Eli is inconsistent, inaccurate, and inefficient - relative to his peers. And I've been saying this for years."

I'm simply amused by the fact that all your years of hard work to educate the masses about the "real" Eli is going to not simply be ignored by every talking head; it's about to be completely and utterly disputed and discredited repeatedly on a world wide stage.

And here's a tip for you: anytime anyone says that they 0 emotional attachment to someone, and then spends literally 90% of their time talking about them, they might not be very honest about how they feel.

For heavens sake, you say you don't care about Eli and yet your signature is two articles related to the guy! The Joker is less obsessed with Batman than you are with Eli

Trust me, if you were in my place, you would find it hilarious.

Another explanation would be that he's like me. Maybe he likes Eli just fine and roots for him with all his being, (like I do) but his problem isn't Eli, it's those who worship him and have an unrealistic view of what kind of player he is.
Which is actually fine until they lash out at those who see him as a good, yet flawed QB.....And say so here.

Just spitballing here.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 08:16 PM
Another explanation would be that he's like me. Maybe he likes Eli just fine and roots for him with all his being, (like I do) but his problem isn't Eli, it's those who worship him and have an unrealistic view of what kind of player he is.
Which is actually fine until they lash out at those who see him as a good, yet flawed QB.....And say so here.

Just spitballing here.

You don't want any of this. I usually stay out of these, but until the SB, I will enjoy myself.

By the way...how would you "realistically view" a 2 time SB MVP, holder of multiple regular season, playoff and SB records?

Edit...just for fun, I will begin each reply with a record or accolade that Eli has

Morehead State
01-22-2013, 08:24 PM
You don't want any of this. I usually stay out of these, but until the SB, I will enjoy myself.

By the way...how would you "realistically view" a 2 time SB MVP, holder of multiple regular season, playoff and SB records?
I care that my team won 2 SB's. I'm glad that our QB played an important part of that. But these are TEAM wins. These are TEAM SB's,
Our teams are made up of players, some better than others, who play together and have been able to go on two great SB runs.

And as for records like "most yards in the first quarter" or "longest opening drive" or whatever (I made those up) ....I say who the hell cares. Those kind of things mean nothing.
But putting those things aside and talking about our QB....I say he's a fine young man and a very good player. He has been a part of two historic playoff runs and he has been a part of some horrible play by our team as well.
I'm a Giants fan. I was for 40 years before we won our SB in 07. And God willing, I will be in 40 more years. And we'll probably be arguing about THAT QB when it happens.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 08:33 PM
I care that my team won 2 SB's. I'm glad that our QB played an important part of that. But these are TEAM wins. These are TEAM SB's,
Our teams are made up of players, some better than others, who play together and have been able to go on two great SB runs.

And as for records like "most yards in the first quarter" or "longest opening drive" or whatever (I made those up) ....I say who the hell cares. Those kind of things mean nothing.
But putting those things aside and talking about our QB....I say he's a fine young man and a very good player. He has been a part of two historic playoff runs and he has been a part of some horrible play by our team as well.
I'm a Giants fan. I was for 40 years before we won our SB in 07. And God willing, I will be in 40 more years. And we'll probably be arguing about THAT QB when it happens.

Eli Manning is the QB with the most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

So if I understand your post above, the fact that it's a team game means that all QB's are equal, and I assume at all times as well?

Is that what you are saying; that top flight play is irrelevant and Brady and Tebow are equals?

'Cause I am saying something different.

GiantGremlin
01-22-2013, 09:00 PM
I can't help but see how strikingly similar Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are. Of course Eli has the 2 rings but both are wildly inconsistent but come crunch time, including playoff time, these 2 always show up. I would love to one day see these 2 go at it in a Superbowl.

Both even have similar nicknames- Joe Cool and Easy E.

This Ravens team in general reminds me of the Giants last year, and I think they'll win the SB as well.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 09:18 PM
Eli Manning is the QB with the most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

So if I understand your post above, the fact that it's a team game means that all QB's are equal, and I assume at all times as well?

Is that what you are saying; that top flight play is irrelevant and Brady and Tebow are equals?

'Cause I am saying something different.

Tim Tebow had the highest yards per attempt in the post season last year.

miked1958
01-22-2013, 09:30 PM
Flacco has turned his team around starting with the Giants win! if he does win the superbowl i can see the similarities of getting on a good run and finishing!Flacco did replace Eli as the winningest "road warrior" qb!yes he did. By beating the Falcons in Atlanta on Sunday it gave Flacco his record 6th Playoff Road win. However that is misleading as he also had 4 playoff Road losses. So 6-4. While Eli is 5-1 on the Road in the playoffs. Counting the two SB games (which were also consider away games) that makes him 7-1.

miked1958
01-22-2013, 09:36 PM
By the way. At one time mark Sanchez was playing the steelers in Pittsburgh not so long ago (2010) in the AFCCG for the right (at the time) to have a record setting 5th Road Playoff win. He came into that game having 4 with wins at NE and Indy over Brady and Peyton. There were quite a few top notch former QBs all tied at 4 RD playoff victories. For Sanchez we all know the ending. He didnt get that 5th Road playoff win that night and his career has been on a study decline ever since.

miked1958
01-22-2013, 09:37 PM
By the way at the time Eli and Flacco only had 3 each

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 09:38 PM
Tim Tebow had the highest yards per attempt in the post season last year.


Is your point that the Eli's record playoff performance, a performance never before equaled by any QB in the league ever, has some relevant connection to a 2 game streak featuring a 40% completion percentage and two touchdowns (although the one against the Steelers was epic).

Care to tell the class in detail why the compare?

Morehead State
01-22-2013, 09:39 PM
Eli Manning is the QB with the most passing yards in a single postseason (1,219 yards in 2011)

So if I understand your post above, the fact that it's a team game means that all QB's are equal, and I assume at all times as well?

Is that what you are saying; that top flight play is irrelevant and Brady and Tebow are equals?

'Cause I am saying something different.

Well I'm not sure how you get from "its a team game" that "all QB's are the same".
My point is that ELI didn't win a SB. The GIANTS won those SB's.

Now everyone knows me as a huge Phil Simms fan, but I would never say that Phil (as an individual) won a SB. The 86 Giants did and Phil was the QB.

I just don't look at individual accomplishments the same way you do I guess. I mean "passing yards in a playoff" is less than irrelevant to me. I see that those kinds of things are important to you. Those "stats" only mean something as they are needed to win games. Its the win that matters.
Coaches and players really don't care about those things. (at least not the ones that matter) I promise you, "yards in a playoff is not only irrelevant to me, its also irrelevant to Eli.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 09:40 PM
By the way. At one time mark Sanchez was playing the steelers in Pittsburgh not so long ago (2010) in the AFCCG for the right (at the time) to have a record setting 5th Road Playoff win. He came into that game having 4 with wins at NE and Indy over Brady and Peyton. There were quite a few top notch former QBs all tied at 4 RD playoff victories. For Sanchez we all know the ending. He didnt get that 5th Road playoff win that night and his career has been on a study decline ever since.

That road win thing is the weirdest thing: If I didn't know that Eli had it until this year, I would have never guessed it. Seems just wrong.

Buddy333
01-22-2013, 09:41 PM
People still throwing around that elite label. Lol. There is like one elite QB in the league right now, some better than average, and a bunch are good.

Morehead State
01-22-2013, 09:42 PM
Is your point that the Eli's record playoff performance, a performance never before equaled by any QB in the league ever, has some relevant connection to a 2 game streak featuring a 40% completion percentage and two touchdowns (although the one against the Steelers was epic).

Care to tell the class in detail why the compare?
No. But your characterization of Eli's play in the playoffs is WAY overstated. His play last year in the playoffs was very good, but hardly the greatest of all time. Its not like we went out and scored a ton of points. As a matter of fact, our offense with Eli as our QB has only scored more than 24 points once in the playoffs.
That's hardly "unmatched" in NFL history.
"Moving the ball between the 20's".. isn't hard in today's NFL.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 09:51 PM
Well I'm not sure how you go from "its a team game" to "all QB's are the same".
My point is that ELI didn't win a SB. The GIANTS won those SB's.

Now everyone knows me as a huge Phil Simms fan, but I would never say that Phil (as an individual) won a SB. The 86 Giants did and Phil was the QB.

I just don't look at individual accomplishments the same way you do I guess. I mean "passing yards in a playoff" is less than irrelevant to me. I see that those kinds of things are important to you. Those "stats" only mean something as they are needed to win games. Its the win that matters.
Coaches and players really don't care about those things. (at least not the ones that matter) I promise you, "yards in a playoff is not only irrelevant to me, its also irrelevant to Eli.

Those passing yards were irrelevant? I promise we needed every one of 'em to win in SF and to win the SB.

Care to argue that?

Let me help you...you don't. There is no arguing it. We won because of those yards. And in SF, we won because Eli was able to take a horrific beating and still make those throws.

in 2007, Eli set an odd SB record in the 4th quarter...do you know what it is?

Buddy333
01-22-2013, 09:52 PM
No. But your characterization of Eli's play in the playoffs is WAY overstated. His play last year in the playoffs was very good, but hardly the greatest of all time. Its not like we went out and scored a ton of points. As a matter of fact, our offense with Eli as our QB has only scored more than 24 points once in the playoffs.That's hardly "unmatched" in NFL history."Moving the ball between the 20's".. isn't hard in today's NFL.This may be true but that beating he took in the 49ers game was impressive.

Morehead State
01-22-2013, 09:55 PM
This may be true but that beating he took in the 49ers game was impressive.
I thought Eli played very well in all 4 games.
I just resist looking at a stat like "yards in a single postseason" and drawing some grandiose conclusion from that.
I mean Joe Flacco will probably beat that this year. What does that tell you?
First of all it tells me that we didn't earn a first round bye.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 09:56 PM
No. But your characterization of Eli's play in the playoffs is WAY overstated. His play last year in the playoffs was very good, but hardly the greatest of all time. Its not like we went out and scored a ton of points. As a matter of fact, our offense with Eli as our QB has only scored more than 24 points once in the playoffs.
That's hardly "unmatched" in NFL history.
"Moving the ball between the 20's".. isn't hard in today's NFL.

Yeah...I think the point was to tell me why they compare...you got a timetable for that or should I assume you will just say stats don't matter.

Buddy333
01-22-2013, 09:59 PM
I thought Eli played very well in all 4 games.I just resist looking at a stat like "yards in a single postseason" and drawing some grandiose conclusion from that.I mean Joe Flacco will probably beat that this year. What does that tell you?First of all it tells me that we didn't earn a first round bye.Yeah stats are not always the way to go. If they where people would never call Eli elite.

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 10:03 PM
Those passing yards were irrelevant? I promise we needed every one of 'em to win in SF and to win the SB.

Care to argue that?

Let me help you...you don't. There is no arguing it. We won because of those yards. And in SF, we won because Eli was able to take a horrific beating and still make those throws.

in 2007, Eli set an odd SB record in the 4th quarter...do you know what it is?and hes not even telling the truth in the post u quoted. like a month ago there was a thread that got turned into a simms discussion and MS was pulling stats and saying verbatim "Simms beat Marino, Montana, Elway..." and talking about how Simms won the SB with his performance...

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 10:07 PM
I thought Eli played very well in all 4 games.
I just resist looking at a stat like "yards in a single postseason" and drawing some grandiose conclusion from that.
I mean Joe Flacco will probably beat that this year. What does that tell you?
First of all it tells me that we didn't earn a first round bye.

So you think Flacco is gonna throw for almost 400 in the SB...if our giving odds, I will take that action.

And my grandiose conclusion was that he had the record, and it doesn't compare to the feeble Tebow stat.

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 10:09 PM
and hes not even telling the truth in the post u quoted. like a month ago there was a thread that got turned into a simms discussion and MS was pulling stats and saying verbatim "Simms beat Marino, Montana, Elway..." and talking about how Simms won the SB with his performance...

I like Morehead and I like Simms, so I have to let that slide, sorry.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 10:29 PM
Is your point that the Eli's record playoff performance, a performance never before equaled by any QB in the league ever, has some relevant connection to a 2 game streak featuring a 40% completion percentage and two touchdowns (although the one against the Steelers was epic).

Care to tell the class in detail why the compare?

Look hard enough and there are plenty of QBs that have "records". Whether or not they actually mean anything is another story.

Have a look. Fascinating stuff.

http://kgov.com/tim-tebow-nfl-records

Delicreep
01-22-2013, 10:35 PM
Look hard enough and there are plenty of QBs that have "records". Whether or not they actually mean anything is another story.

Have a look. Fascinating stuff.

http://kgov.com/tim-tebow-nfl-records

Yeah...we're still waiting for you to justify the comparison. Here's a hint: Eli's directly lead to a SB win; Tebow's lead to nothing

By the way, that a record for Tebow or just BS from you?

giantsfan420
01-22-2013, 10:39 PM
I like Morehead and I like Simms, so I have to let that slide, sorry.i know i like both them too. i was just saying, his whole "i root for the Giants, not player "x" like its an indictment on eli "homers" when he does the same thing only with simms.

gumby74
01-22-2013, 10:42 PM
Look hard enough and there are plenty of QBs that have "records". Whether or not they actually mean anything is another story.

Have a look. Fascinating stuff.

http://kgov.com/tim-tebow-nfl-records


Yeah...we're still waiting for you to justify the comparison.
By the way, that a record for Tebow or just BS from you?

Heh. No comparison. Just showing that there are lots of accolades and records out there if you really look for them.

I honestly don't know regarding the Tebow record. I heard it from some Tebow person the other day and just regurgitated it - assuming he did his homework. Bad assumption on my part it seems. I can't seem to find that record anywhere.

TrueBlue10
01-23-2013, 02:01 AM
I will agree that Flacco is like Eli in that both QBs elevated their team and both fanbases largely spat in their faces for it. =P

People fell in love with Eli after he started bringing home Lombardis. I don't see why the same couldn't happen for Flacco.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 03:20 AM
I care that my team won 2 SB's. I'm glad that our QB played an important part of that. But these are TEAM wins. These are TEAM SB's,
Our teams are made up of players, some better than others, who play together and have been able to go on two great SB runs.

And as for records like "most yards in the first quarter" or "longest opening drive" or whatever (I made those up) ....I say who the hell cares. Those kind of things mean nothing.
But putting those things aside and talking about our QB....I say he's a fine young man and a very good player. He has been a part of two historic playoff runs and he has been a part of some horrible play by our team as well.
I'm a Giants fan. I was for 40 years before we won our SB in 07. And God willing, I will be in 40 more years. And we'll probably be arguing about THAT QB when it happens.

Ha. We will be argueing about Eli Manning III (EM III), the rookie QB that leads NY Giants to SuperBowl victory or maybe he will name his kid MS after you.

BeatYale
01-23-2013, 03:24 AM
Nope.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 03:24 AM
Coaches and players really don't care about those things. (at least not the ones that matter) I promise you, "yards in a playoff is not only irrelevant to me, its also irrelevant to Eli.

Yes it is and that is the kicker. Obviously, Eli Manning is more concerned about winning SuperBowls than his own stats and that means a heck of a lot.

Hopefully we see 2011 Eli Manning back next season.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 03:29 AM
No. But your characterization of Eli's play in the playoffs is WAY overstated. His play last year in the playoffs was very good, but hardly the greatest of all time. Its not like we went out and scored a ton of points. As a matter of fact, our offense with Eli as our QB has only scored more than 24 points once in the playoffs.
That's hardly "unmatched" in NFL history.
"Moving the ball between the 20's".. isn't hard in today's NFL.

Well, beating a 16-0 team in 2007 and going on the road and winning in Green Bay and San Francisco in playoffs and then leading the offense in keeping one of The Greatest QBs in history of NFL on the sidelines for almost 38 minutes in SuperBowl is great.

I am going to call it like it is. Eli Manning overall is not an ELIte QB. He is damn good but is not ELIte during regular season. However, with the exception of Tom Brady, he far surpasses the “ELIte” QBs like Peyton, Aaron and Drew in postseason by a mile. I will take that any Sunday.

Diamondring
01-23-2013, 06:42 AM
I can't help but see how strikingly similar Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are. Of course Eli has the 2 rings but both are wildly inconsistent but come crunch time, including playoff time, these 2 always show up. I would love to one day see these 2 go at it in a Superbowl.

Both even have similar nicknames- Joe Cool and Easy E.Nope cause he doesn't have a big brother to be in a shadow of. As for the way they play, maybe so

nycsportzfan
01-23-2013, 07:43 AM
Well, beating a 16-0 team in 2007 and going on the road and winning in Green Bay and San Francisco in playoffs and then leading the offense in keeping one of The Greatest QBs in history of NFL on the sidelines for almost 38 minutes in SuperBowl is great.

I am going to call it like it is. Eli Manning overall is not an ELIte QB. He is damn good but is not ELIte during regular season. However, with the exception of Tom Brady, he far surpasses the “ELIte” QBs like Peyton, Aaron and Drew in postseason by a mile. I will take that any Sunday. I don't see how he surpasses Peyton in postseason? Why, because hes WON 1 more SB then him? Peyton brings his team to the postseason every yr, and we have yrs we don't make it all togther, and Peytons never been on a team, one would consider the Defense a real strength, unlike the giants with there vaunted pass rush.. I mean, didn't teh broncos just lose in 1st rd even though they scored like 30plus pts?

If not for our defense, we don't beat NE once, let alone twice.. And this is 2 take away nothing from ELI as a player, but holding NE to 17points and 14points is the only reason we won those games.. Thats like ridiculously good against NE in the SB..

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 07:46 AM
I don't see how he surpasses Peyton in postseason? Why, because hes WON 1 more SB then him? Peyton brings his team to the postseason every yr, and we have yrs we don't make it all togther, and Peytons never been on a team, one would consider the Defense a real strength, unlike the giants with there vaunted pass rush.. I mean, didn't teh broncos just lose in 1st rd even though they scored like 30plus pts? If not for our defense, we don't beat NE once, let alone twice.. And this is 2 take away nothing from ELI as a player, but holding NE to 17points and 14points is the only reason we won those games.. Thats like ridiculously good against NE in the SB..People want to rip the defense for playing bad this year and they are right. When they shut down the greatest offense of all time it was all Eli. Lol. Does he play defense now?

jomo
01-23-2013, 08:38 AM
No

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 09:32 AM
Well, beating a 16-0 team in 2007 and going on the road and winning in Green Bay and San Francisco in playoffs and then leading the offense in keeping one of The Greatest QBs in history of NFL on the sidelines for almost 38 minutes in SuperBowl is great.

I am going to call it like it is. Eli Manning overall is not an ELIte QB. He is damn good but is not ELIte during regular season. However, with the exception of Tom Brady, he far surpasses the “ELIte” QBs like Peyton, Aaron and Drew in postseason by a mile. I will take that any Sunday.
The New York Giants did all of those things. Not one player.

This is what you guys are having a difficult time with.
Our football team beat the Pats and went on those great playoff runs. Our team knocked Tom Brady on his *** 19 times in SB 42. Our football team picked up a 4th and one on that last drive. Our football team held the Pats to 17 points last year. Our football team drove down the field to win both those games.

FlyingTruck
01-23-2013, 10:41 AM
My buddy is a Ravens fan so I watch a lot of Ravens games. I've been thinking the same for the last few seasons.

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 10:46 AM
People can hate on him all they want but he is a good QB and he fact they had not made the Super Bowl until this season was not his fault. He has played well in the post season.

giantsfan420
01-23-2013, 10:49 AM
I don't see how he surpasses Peyton in postseason? Why, because hes WON 1 more SB then him? Peyton brings his team to the postseason every yr, and we have yrs we don't make it all togther, and Peytons never been on a team, one would consider the Defense a real strength, unlike the giants with there vaunted pass rush.. I mean, didn't teh broncos just lose in 1st rd even though they scored like 30plus pts?

If not for our defense, we don't beat NE once, let alone twice.. And this is 2 take away nothing from ELI as a player, but holding NE to 17points and 14points is the only reason we won those games.. Thats like ridiculously good against NE in the SB..dude no offense but theres so much wrong with this post. for 1, 8x peytons been bounced in the first game of the playoffs, of those 8x (it might even be 11),5 were as the #1 seed homefield advantage.

denver had a top 5 defense, and is light years ahead of our d at the moment. and the sb that he did win, that postseason, the defense and run game is what winning those games, not peyton.

further, peyton has more losses than wins, and altho peytons played 20 playoff games, has only a couple more postseason victories and 1 less SB.

Further, the SB peyton actually did win, he threw more ints (7) than tds (3) and iirc, he actually has a negative TD:INT ratio...in virtually every measurable aspect, eli surpasses peyton in postseason play its kind of a fact...and while we have missed the playoffs, we've never had a losing season. and eli's first 5 seasons as a starter, we made the postseason. the past 4 yrs have seen the ups and downs, but that goes way beyond eli...

EliDaMANning
01-23-2013, 12:12 PM
Eli putting up better numbers than Peyton in the post season is just as obvious as Peyton putting up better numbers during the regular season. In other words, Eli raises his game another level while Peyton folds like a lawn chair when the competition gets tougher.

Delicreep
01-23-2013, 12:27 PM
The New York Giants did all of those things. Not one player.

This is what you guys are having a difficult time with.
Our football team beat the Pats and went on those great playoff runs. Our team knocked Tom Brady on his *** 19 times in SB 42. Our football team picked up a 4th and one on that last drive. Our football team held the Pats to 17 points last year. Our football team drove down the field to win both those games. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO THE QUARTERBACK WAS--IF YOU HAD PLUGGED IN THE WORST QB IN THE LEAGUE, THE RESULTS WOULD HAVE BEEN EXACTLY THE SAME, BECAUSE IT'S A TEAM GAME

So if I understand you correctly, the sentence I inserted in upper case is correct.

That, sir, is communism.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 12:28 PM
I don't see how he surpasses Peyton in postseason? Why, because hes WON 1 more SB then him? Peyton brings his team to the postseason every yr, and we have yrs we don't make it all togther, and Peytons never been on a team, one would consider the Defense a real strength, unlike the giants with there vaunted pass rush.. I mean, didn't teh broncos just lose in 1st rd even though they scored like 30plus pts? If not for our defense, we don't beat NE once, let alone twice.. And this is 2 take away nothing from ELI as a player, but holding NE to 17points and 14points is the only reason we won those games.. Thats like ridiculously good against NE in the SB..In SuperBowl XLII our defense gave up the lead in 4 th quarter and Eli then led our offense to a score to win game. Eli Manning opening the game with a drive that took 9:59 off the clock was what set the tone for that game and was the main reason NE Patriots didn't score till 2nd quarter.In SuperBowl XLVI our defense gave up 17 points in 21 minutes and was bailed out by Wes Welker. Eli Manning and NY Giants offense keeping Tom Brady on tue sidelines for almost 38 minutes was The Best defense that day.Peyton is 1and done 8 times in post season. This last one is all on him for the loss with that lame overtime pick as was the pick 6 in SuperBowl against Saints. Eli Manning may not be a better overall QB than Peyton Manning but he far surpasses him in post season.

Delicreep
01-23-2013, 12:36 PM
People want to rip the defense for playing bad this year and they are right. When they shut down the greatest offense of all time it was all Eli. Lol. Does he play defense now?

If I tell you you don't want to bring up the 2007 SB because it actually helps the pro Eli case, would you believe me?

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 12:36 PM
People want to rip the defense for playing bad this year and they are right. When they shut down the greatest offense of all time it was all Eli. Lol. Does he play defense now?No. However, Eli Manning and NY Giants offense controlling ball for almost 38 minutes was The Best defense in SuperBowl XLVI.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 12:38 PM
I don't see how he surpasses Peyton in postseason? Why, because hes WON 1 more SB then him? Peyton brings his team to the postseason every yr, and we have yrs we don't make it all togther, and Peytons never been on a team, one would consider the Defense a real strength, unlike the giants with there vaunted pass rush.. I mean, didn't teh broncos just lose in 1st rd even though they scored like 30plus pts? If not for our defense, we don't beat NE once, let alone twice.. And this is 2 take away nothing from ELI as a player, but holding NE to 17points and 14points is the only reason we won those games.. Thats like ridiculously good against NE in the SB..Eli Manning has also never been on a team with a defense that would be considered a strength.

GameTime
01-23-2013, 12:42 PM
[QUOTE=BuffyBlueII;669102]Eli Manning has also never been on a team with a defense that would be considered a strength.[/QUOTE
]except they stepped up like Eli did in the post season.....so the D was a big factor.
Thas why its a team game and not a one man show

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 12:45 PM
The New York Giants did all of those things. Not one player.This is what you guys are having a difficult time with.Our football team beat the Pats and went on those great playoff runs. Our team knocked Tom Brady on his *** 19 times in SB 42. Our football team picked up a 4th and one on that last drive. Our football team held the Pats to 17 points last year. Our football team drove down the field to win both those games.Our football team that was led by our QB, Eli Manning. Our QB that won SuperBowl MVP both times.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 12:52 PM
Eli Manning has also never been on a team with a defense that would be considered a strength.except they stepped up like Eli did in the post season.....so the D was a big factor.Thas why its a team game and not a one man show

They played more inspired than they did during regular season but both those SuperBowls were dictated by our offense. This Ny Giants defense relies on our offense to tailor their game to make up for our defenses softness and lack of conditioning.

"I know Eli will hold the ball and take his time and keep RG III on the sidelines" - Justin Tuck

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 01:00 PM
No. However, Eli Manning and NY Giants offense controlling ball for almost 38 minutes was The Best defense in SuperBowl XLVI.How did they get to hold the ball that long?

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 01:02 PM
They played more inspired than they did during regular season but both those SuperBowls were dictated by our offense. This Ny Giants defense relies on our offense to tailor their game to make up for our defenses softness and lack of conditioning."I know Eli will hold the ball and take his time and keep RG III on the sidelines" - Justin TuckShutting down the Patrioys was because of the offense? So the. Who's fault is it this year because the offense couldn't score in the red zone and had many 3 and out.

GameTime
01-23-2013, 01:17 PM
They played more inspired than they did during regular season but both those SuperBowls were dictated by our offense. This Ny Giants defense relies on our offense to tailor their game to make up for our defenses softness and lack of conditioning."I know Eli will hold the ball and take his time and keep RG III on the sidelines" - Justin Tuck
they were 9-7 last year. Seems both sides of the ball played inspired in the SB and playoffs...

gumby74
01-23-2013, 01:31 PM
If I tell you you don't want to bring up the 2007 SB because it actually helps the pro Eli case, would you believe me?

I'm feeling telepathic. You will say that Eli kept potent New England offense off the field by eating up clock.

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 01:33 PM
I'm feeling telepathic. You will say that Eli kept potent New England offense off the field by eating up clock.When they lose its the defenses fault. When they wins its all because of Eli. Don't you know this?

shocknaweny
01-23-2013, 01:34 PM
I hope Flacco and the Ravens can pull this off....And yes they are both similar....big-time clutch quarterbacks in BIG games and both get zero respect outside of their respective fanbase's

Joe Morrison
01-23-2013, 01:36 PM
Little Joey has to win in two weeks, then we will consider, he has stepped up his game for sure. Not a big Raven fan after 2000 season but would love to see them ram it down the 49ers throat.

Delicreep
01-23-2013, 01:55 PM
I'm feeling telepathic. You will say that Eli kept potent New England offense off the field by eating up clock.

We'll just add that to the long list of things you have been wrong about.

I hesitate to tell you, since the answer is so team oriented, but the truth is the truth.

What happened in week 17 when they met and why was the SB so different from that game?

The answer...Both defenses made masterful adjustments to the other team.

There is a fantastic clip of a play NE ran in week 17 verses the same exact play in the SB.
In week 17, Mitchell was in the middle, and when the ball was snapped, he backed into coverage. In front of him was a gaping hole that lead straight to Brady.

In the SB, NE ran the same play. Mitchell took two steps back, and when the same exact hole opened up, he went right after Brady. BOOM

NE made adjustments also...and by NE, I mean Bill B, the defensive play caller. NE's plan, as it always is, was to take away the biggest threat--in this case, it was Eli.

Both defenses did great jobs, and I will easily and completely agree that the Jints did better job...a much better job.

But...in the end, Brady was Brady, and late in the 4th, he drove down on that great D and scored. No shame in that. No fault in that. It felt like destiny to me.

Then Eli needed to do something that had never been done before, and he needed to do it against a team that had not lost a game all season.
And did they ever bring the heat! They mixed up the coverage. They were making plays.

But it wasn't enough.

Eli kept his cool and became the only QB to make that drive to score a game winning TD when only a TD would do it.

See how I credited both the Giants D and the NE D? The haters just credit the Giants D without remembering how Eli tore into in week 17 and how one of the best defensive football minds came up short in his plan to stop him.


PS...Don't throw the helmet catch/luck thing out at me...it will just end poorly for you.

Delicreep
01-23-2013, 01:56 PM
When they lose its the defenses fault. When they wins its all because of Eli. Don't you know this?

Sigh..see above.

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 02:00 PM
Didn't both games end with the Giants on defense?

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 02:04 PM
Didn't both games end with the Giants on defense?
Didn't you know?....It was Eli who inspired that planting of Tom Brady by Alford.
It was Eli that distracted Brady when Tuck stripped the ball at the end of the half.
It was Eli who inspired the 5 sacks and 19 knockdowns.
It was Eli who caused the Pats to have their running game snuffed.

byron
01-23-2013, 02:08 PM
Didn't you know?....It was Eli who inspired that planting of Tom Brady by Alford.
It was Eli that distracted Brady when Tuck stripped the ball at the end of the half.
It was Eli who inspired the 5 sacks and 19 knockdowns.
It was Eli who caused the Pats to have their running game snuffed. well that says it all right there Eli= goat......welcome back MH !...now behave yourself !!

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 02:17 PM
How did they get to hold the ball that long?

They took their time and extended drives. They went for the more time consuming plays than the big strikes downfield for the most part because our defense was in trouble. When it was 17-9 and our defense was huffing and puffing coming off the field, Eli Manning and NY Giants offense took over six minutes off the clock and drove for a field goal giving our defense a much needed rest.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 02:23 PM
Shutting down the Patrioys was because of the offense? So the. Who's fault is it this year because the offense couldn't score in the red zone and had many 3 and out.

I have already repeatedly stated that although this was a poor performance by the team all the way around for the most part this past season that the fault i mainly Eli Manning's. He is our leader and star $100 million dollar QB. Unfair as it may sound, he is the one that makes the difference and he is the one that is called upon to make the difference even when the rest of our team is struggling. Not excusing the rest of the teams play but a couple different decisions here and there and we are in playoffs. he doesn't make that throw to Barden at the end of the Philly game is one that sticks out. Granted, our defense as usual was garbage. Our offensive play calling was the worst that it has been in years. However, when it is this close to making the playoffs or not, Eli Manning is the one that needs to step up and make the difference. It is what he has done on the 2 SuperBowl runs. It is what ELIte QBs are supposed to do. It is what Eli Manning is supposed to do.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 02:28 PM
We'll just add that to the long list of things you have been wrong about.

I hesitate to tell you, since the answer is so team oriented, but the truth is the truth.

What happened in week 17 when they met and why was the SB so different from that game?

The answer...Both defenses made masterful adjustments to the other team.

There is a fantastic clip of a play NE ran in week 17 verses the same exact play in the SB.
In week 17, Mitchell was in the middle, and when the ball was snapped, he backed into coverage. In front of him was a gaping hole that lead straight to Brady.

In the SB, NE ran the same play. Mitchell took two steps back, and when the same exact hole opened up, he went right after Brady. BOOM

NE made adjustments also...and by NE, I mean Bill B, the defensive play caller. NE's plan, as it always is, was to take away the biggest threat--in this case, it was Eli.

Both defenses did great jobs, and I will easily and completely agree that the Jints did better job...a much better job.

But...in the end, Brady was Brady, and late in the 4th, he drove down on that great D and scored. No shame in that. No fault in that. It felt like destiny to me.

Then Eli needed to do something that had never been done before, and he needed to do it against a team that had not lost a game all season.
And did they ever bring the heat! They mixed up the coverage. They were making plays.

But it wasn't enough.

Eli kept his cool and became the only QB to make that drive to score a game winning TD when only a TD would do it.

See how I credited both the Giants D and the NE D? The haters just credit the Giants D without remembering how Eli tore into in week 17 and how one of the best defensive football minds came up short in his plan to stop him.


PS...Don't throw the helmet catch/luck thing out at me...it will just end poorly for you.

+1

gumby74
01-23-2013, 02:38 PM
If I tell you you don't want to bring up the 2007 SB because it actually helps the pro Eli case, would you believe me?


I'm feeling telepathic. You will say that Eli kept potent New England offense off the field by eating up clock.


We'll just add that to the long list of things you have been wrong about.

I hesitate to tell you, since the answer is so team oriented, but the truth is the truth.

What happened in week 17 when they met and why was the SB so different from that game?

The answer...Both defenses made masterful adjustments to the other team.

There is a fantastic clip of a play NE ran in week 17 verses the same exact play in the SB.
In week 17, Mitchell was in the middle, and when the ball was snapped, he backed into coverage. In front of him was a gaping hole that lead straight to Brady.

In the SB, NE ran the same play. Mitchell took two steps back, and when the same exact hole opened up, he went right after Brady. BOOM

NE made adjustments also...and by NE, I mean Bill B, the defensive play caller. NE's plan, as it always is, was to take away the biggest threat--in this case, it was Eli.

Both defenses did great jobs, and I will easily and completely agree that the Jints did better job...a much better job.

But...in the end, Brady was Brady, and late in the 4th, he drove down on that great D and scored. No shame in that. No fault in that. It felt like destiny to me.

Then Eli needed to do something that had never been done before, and he needed to do it against a team that had not lost a game all season.
And did they ever bring the heat! They mixed up the coverage. They were making plays.

But it wasn't enough.

Eli kept his cool and became the only QB to make that drive to score a game winning TD when only a TD would do it.

See how I credited both the Giants D and the NE D? The haters just credit the Giants D without remembering how Eli tore into in week 17 and how one of the best defensive football minds came up short in his plan to stop him.


PS...Don't throw the helmet catch/luck thing out at me...it will just end poorly for you.

I'll ask you again, what have I been wrong about?

As for the rest, where is all this coming from? Why are we even talking about blame or credit to begin with? My comment was strictly tongue-in-cheek.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but you're taking this way too seriously and making mountains out of molehills. Or are you mixing up posts by different posters. But either way, I really don't care why we won the SB. Just that we did win.

I'm a Giants fan. I have 0 emotional attachment to Eli, Cruz, JPP, or any of the players when it comes to the team. Ultimately, I treat everyone the same - as pawn pieces. Nothing more. Nothing less. I love Cruz to pieces, but the minute he asks for some ridiculous contract (if it happens), I'd be more than happy to show him the door if it is in teh best interest of the team.

Edit: And your assessment of the SB? I completely agree with you. Football is a team game. As for the helmet catch thing, I'm curious to know what you would have said. And just for fun, I'll say this. The entire play was ridiculous. Great plays by Tyree and Eli. Did that play and the drive win us the game? Probably and Absolutely. But was it the main reason why we won? No.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 02:44 PM
+1
I love the one disclaimer "when only a TD will do". As you know, its actually easier to move the ball when only a TD will do (or at least both Peyton and Eli agreed it was).
Ben moved the ball in SB 43 and scored to win as did Montana vs. Cincy. As did Brady twice.
Not taking away from Eli. He did a great job. But it wasn't just Eli making plays. It was a lot of guys who don't get as much credit as the QB. Like the great blitz pickup by BJ to allow Plaxico the time to get open. Not to mention the great play by Steve Smith to turn a 3 yard pass into a first down.

This entire "Eli did it...Eli did it" as if they both weren't great team efforts is silliness in my humble opinion.

BuffyBlueII
01-23-2013, 02:54 PM
I love the one disclaimer "when only a TD will do". As you know, its actually easier to move the ball when only a TD will do (or at least both Peyton and Eli agreed it was).
Ben moved the ball in SB 43 and scored to win as did Montana vs. Cincy. As did Brady twice.
Not taking away from Eli. He did a great job. But it wasn't just Eli making plays. It was a lot of guys who don't get as much credit as the QB. Like the great blitz pickup by BJ to allow Plaxico the time to get open. Not to mention the great play by Steve Smith to turn a 3 yard pass into a first down.

This entire "Eli did it...Eli did it" as if they both weren't great team efforts is silliness in my humble opinion.

However, Eli Manning is THE MAIN reason. You know this but refuse to admit it, VDC.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 03:04 PM
However, Eli Manning is THE MAIN reason. You know this but refuse to admit it, VDC.
He was the most important factor in our win last season.
2007 was a championship won primarily by the defense.

giantsfan420
01-23-2013, 03:09 PM
No. However, Eli Manning and NY Giants offense controlling ball for almost 38 minutes was The Best defense in SuperBowl XLVI.he will never grasp that. or in sb 42, how we essentially turned it into a 3 quarter game with us starting up by 3 points with that record longest time opening drive...and i love how buddy always tries talking up our d to knock eli down a few pegs all the while completely ignoring the FACT that in the sb 42 yr, NE had the better defense. in sb 42, eli was hit almost as much as brady...

giantsfan420
01-23-2013, 03:11 PM
We'll just add that to the long list of things you have been wrong about.

I hesitate to tell you, since the answer is so team oriented, but the truth is the truth.

What happened in week 17 when they met and why was the SB so different from that game?

The answer...Both defenses made masterful adjustments to the other team.

There is a fantastic clip of a play NE ran in week 17 verses the same exact play in the SB.
In week 17, Mitchell was in the middle, and when the ball was snapped, he backed into coverage. In front of him was a gaping hole that lead straight to Brady.

In the SB, NE ran the same play. Mitchell took two steps back, and when the same exact hole opened up, he went right after Brady. BOOM

NE made adjustments also...and by NE, I mean Bill B, the defensive play caller. NE's plan, as it always is, was to take away the biggest threat--in this case, it was Eli.

Both defenses did great jobs, and I will easily and completely agree that the Jints did better job...a much better job.

But...in the end, Brady was Brady, and late in the 4th, he drove down on that great D and scored. No shame in that. No fault in that. It felt like destiny to me.

Then Eli needed to do something that had never been done before, and he needed to do it against a team that had not lost a game all season.
And did they ever bring the heat! They mixed up the coverage. They were making plays.

But it wasn't enough.

Eli kept his cool and became the only QB to make that drive to score a game winning TD when only a TD would do it.

See how I credited both the Giants D and the NE D? The haters just credit the Giants D without remembering how Eli tore into in week 17 and how one of the best defensive football minds came up short in his plan to stop him.


PS...Don't throw the helmet catch/luck thing out at me...it will just end poorly for you.from where i stand, its ended poorly for him every point/counter point you've made

nycisgreat
01-23-2013, 04:18 PM
Some people don't think Eli is in the same class as Flacco but more like Brady lol. But I agree with you Flacco has played great this year.

I agree, but Baltimore fans kill the guy even when he is playing well. I hear the complaints about this guy all year round on Baltimore sports radio stations.

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 04:39 PM
He was the most important factor in our win last season.2007 was a championship won primarily by the defense.They held the greatest offense to well under their average score. Even Burress knew the defense would dominate that game.

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 04:41 PM
Didn't you know?....It was Eli who inspired that planting of Tom Brady by Alford.It was Eli that distracted Brady when Tuck stripped the ball at the end of the half.It was Eli who inspired the 5 sacks and 19 knockdowns.It was Eli who caused the Pats to have their running game snuffed.Didn't realize he played defense. He really is the entire reason why they won.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 04:44 PM
he will never grasp that. or in sb 42, how we essentially turned it into a 3 quarter game with us starting up by 3 points with that record longest time opening drive...and i love how buddy always tries talking up our d to knock eli down a few pegs all the while completely ignoring the FACT that in the sb 42 yr, NE had the better defense. in sb 42, eli was hit almost as much as brady...
No more than you talk down our D to prop up Eli.

nycsportzfan
01-23-2013, 05:02 PM
In SuperBowl XLII our defense gave up the lead in 4 th quarter and Eli then led our offense to a score to win game. Eli Manning opening the game with a drive that took 9:59 off the clock was what set the tone for that game and was the main reason NE Patriots didn't score till 2nd quarter.In SuperBowl XLVI our defense gave up 17 points in 21 minutes and was bailed out by Wes Welker. Eli Manning and NY Giants offense keeping Tom Brady on tue sidelines for almost 38 minutes was The Best defense that day.Peyton is 1and done 8 times in post season. This last one is all on him for the loss with that lame overtime pick as was the pick 6 in SuperBowl against Saints. Eli Manning may not be a better overall QB than Peyton Manning but he far surpasses him in post season. Our Defense gave up the lead? So? What are they supposed to do, hold one of the best offenses in the history of football to 7points? I don't caer about when or what, i care that our defense only gave up 17 and 14 to NE.. Bottom line is we were underdogs in both games, and in both games NE's Team over was way way higher then what they ended up with, and our Team over was also higher, which we did not get.. I mean, its not rocket science, that our defense is the only reason we even had a chance to make those great 4th qter drives.. Normally, NE would of had way more points on the board, and it woulden't even matter if we scored when we did..

Obviously ELI played well, and its not like we su-cked on offense by any stretch, but its way more of a team effort, and i feel that without our defense playing like they did, none of that other stuff has a chance to happen..

nycsportzfan
01-23-2013, 05:04 PM
Didn't you know?....It was Eli who inspired that planting of Tom Brady by Alford.
It was Eli that distracted Brady when Tuck stripped the ball at the end of the half.
It was Eli who inspired the 5 sacks and 19 knockdowns.
It was Eli who caused the Pats to have their running game snuffed. Even through all our defensive efforts, we still needed some crazy "luck" catch by David Tyree to win that game.. As amazing as our defense played, we still needed luck by our offense to pull it off..

I was alittle annoyed Justin Tuck didn't get MVP in 2007 SB... I thought he was most desrving...

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 05:12 PM
Even through all our defensive efforts, we still needed some crazy "luck" catch by David Tyree to win that game.. As amazing as our defense played, we still needed luck by our offense to pull it off..

I was alittle annoyed Justin Tuck didn't get MVP in 2007 SB... I thought he was most desrving...
I thought Tuck should have gotten the award too. If for no other reason then to acknowledge the tremendous job our defense did in that game.
But you know how sports writers are. They will always give it to the winning QB when they drive for a late, winning score. Even if it was the defense's performance all game long that gave him that opportunity.

Now the 2011 SB?....Yes that MVP was well earned by Eli.

Diamondring
01-23-2013, 06:12 PM
Eli deserve Superbowl MVP cause he really had nobody but Burress. Tuck had Strahan and Osi around that line. .

BurnerNYG
01-23-2013, 06:21 PM
I thought Tuck should have gotten the award too. If for no other reason then to acknowledge the tremendous job our defense did in that game.
But you know how sports writers are. They will always give it to the winning QB when they drive for a late, winning score. Even if it was the defense's performance all game long that gave him that opportunity.

Now the 2011 SB?....Yes that MVP was well earned by Eli.It's just like the Heisman trophy. They mind as well just call it the QB & RB Award and occasionally WR.

BurnerNYG
01-23-2013, 06:31 PM
Don't be scared to respond... I know I'm always right lol.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 07:01 PM
Eli deserve Superbowl MVP cause he really had nobody but Burress. Tuck had Strahan and Osi around that line. .
So Brandon Jacobs, Chris Snee, Amhad Bradshaw, Steve Smith, Amani Toomer, Sean O'Hara and David Tyree missed the bus to the game?

AllHailEli
01-23-2013, 07:05 PM
Although the Patriots offense was ranked no 1, their defense was ranked no 4 and the Giants defense was lower than them. Eli did not play against scrubs, plus considering everything on the line for the Patriots, I'd say it was a ballsy game from Eli and I am not sure why people were expecting it to be a blowout. The Patriots were great both sides of the ball in 2007. The most that defense gave up was in the last week of the regular season when Eli went toe to toe with Tom Brady and scored 35 points against them. By the way, the last time we lost the Super Bowl, Ray Lewis was the MVP.

If I can summarize Ernie Accorsi's scouting report about Eli in one word, that word is CLUTCH. We traded for Eli so he'd bring us a Super Bowl, and he got us TWO with 2 different sets of receivers. The second set of receivers were homegrown, pretty much unknown until 2011. We went to two super bowls with mostly home grown talents and rookies and beat the best teams out there with 16-0 and 15-1 records. Although consistency may be nice, I want someone who can bring home the trophy given half a chance. Otherwise, Tony Romo I believe has better stats and one postseason win and Alex Smith barely throws interceptions if he throws at all.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 07:08 PM
Although the Patriots offense was ranked no 1, their defense was ranked no 4 and the Giants defense was lower than them. Eli did not play against scrubs, plus considering everything on the line for the Patriots, I'd say it was a ballsy game from Eli and I am not sure why people were expecting it to be a blowout. The Patriots were great both sides of the ball in 2007. The most that defense gave up was in the last week of the regular season when Eli went toe to toe with Tom Brady and scored 35 points against them. By the way, the last time we lost the Super Bowl, Ray Lewis was the MVP.

If I can summarize Ernie Accorsi's scouting report about Eli in one word, that word is CLUTCH. We traded for Eli so he'd bring us a Super Bowl, and he got us TWO with 2 different sets of receivers. The second set of receivers were homegrown, pretty much unknown until 2011. We went to two super bowls with mostly home grown talents and rookies and beat the best teams out there with 16-0 and 15-1 records. Although consistency may be nice, I want someone who can bring home the trophy given half a chance. Otherwise, Tony Romo I believe has better stats and one postseason win and Alex Smith barely throws interceptions if he throws at all.

The Pats defense was old and wore down towards the end of the season. The reality is that they didn't play especially well down the stretch. Including the SB.
Our defense however raised their game tremendously and put pressure on Brady that he had not come close to seeing all season.
And please stop with this silliness that one player provided us with a SB victory. It flies in the face of everything we know about the NFL.

AllHailEli
01-23-2013, 07:17 PM
The Pats defense was old and wore down towards the end of the season. The reality is that they didn't play especially well down the stretch. Including the SB.
Our defense however raised their game tremendously and put pressure on Brady that he had not come close to seeing all season.
And please stop with this silliness that one player provided us with a SB victory. It flies in the face of everything we know about the NFL.

Did I say one player won the Super Bowl? We're talking about Super Bowl MVP which you are holding against Eli in 2007? I'm saying he deserved it and a defensive player won it before, it was after all the last time we lost. There is no excuse to not tackle him with like 4 people on his face considering you're chasing history. The Patriots were not clutch less than 2 minutes before the end of the game and with everything on the line.

AllHailEli
01-23-2013, 07:25 PM
By the way, the game before that, Patriots held the Chargers to 12 points. Did not sound they were too banged up. The score was 21-12. The Chargers gave up one more TD than the Giants, so that offense could be held to less than their 36 points a game, but then the defense gave up only 12 points. Rivers anyone?

Buddy333
01-23-2013, 07:28 PM
So Brandon Jacobs, Chris Snee, Amhad Bradshaw, Steve Smith, Amani Toomer, Sean O'Hara and David Tyree missed the bus to the game?Lol.

BurnerNYG
01-23-2013, 07:33 PM
I know other positions win MVP but for the most part it's given to either of the big 3 on offense just like the Heisman. That's if you were referring to my comment. Eli came up big in that 4th quarter against New England which I think nullified anybody else's chance of winning the MVP. Our defense on the other hand came up big the whole entire game besides that go ahead drive by New England. That game in my opinion was one of the best TEAM performances I ever seen... from the rookies to the vets to the coaches calling the plays. Tuck imo should've won but whatever... it is what it is and Eli wasn't a horrible choice.

AllHailEli
01-23-2013, 07:42 PM
I know other positions win MVP but for the most part it's given to either of the big 3 on offense just like the Heisman. That's if you were referring to my comment. Eli came up big in that 4th quarter against New England which I think nullified anybody else's chance of winning the MVP. Our defense on the other hand came up big the whole entire game besides that go ahead drive by New England. That game in my opinion was one of the best TEAM performances I ever seen... from the rookies to the vets to the coaches calling the plays. Tuck imo should've won but whatever... it is what it is and Eli wasn't a horrible choice.

If he did not come up big in the 4th quarter, there would be no Super Bowl MVP discussion by a Giant right now. LOL! It could have been Tom Brady regardless of how crappy he played that game or how he was totally flustered. Final score 14-10.

BurnerNYG
01-23-2013, 07:46 PM
If he did not come up big in the 4th quarter, there would be no Super Bowl MVP discussion by a Giant right now. LOL! It could have been Tom Brady regardless of how crappy he played that game or how he was totally flustered. Final score 14-10.Lol you're right and I guess that's why he won and it's justified.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:11 PM
Did I say one player won the Super Bowl? We're talking about Super Bowl MVP which you are holding against Eli in 2007? I'm saying he deserved it and a defensive player won it before, it was after all the last time we lost. There is no excuse to not tackle him with like 4 people on his face considering you're chasing history. The Patriots were not clutch less than 2 minutes before the end of the game and with everything on the line.
Yes....Actually you did....

If I can summarize Ernie Accorsi's scouting report about Eli in one word, that word is CLUTCH. We traded for Eli so he'd bring us a Super Bowl, and he got us TWO with 2 different sets of receivers

AllHailEli
01-23-2013, 08:39 PM
Yes....Actually you did....

If I can summarize Ernie Accorsi's scouting report about Eli in one word, that word is CLUTCH. We traded for Eli so he'd bring us a Super Bowl, and he got us TWO with 2 different sets of receivers


Well, all that meant to say was that he is CLUTCH and he can close out the game when needed to bring home the trophy, which he did twice both in the last two minutes and winning 2 Super Bowl MVPs along the way, one which you would like to discount. Hey, if trophies were easily won, then how come none were won since the 1990 and before 2007? It's not like we did not get a chance, you could not say the 2000 Giants were not better in the regular season than these last two who won. The 2000 Giants were 12-4 after all. Eli did not make boneheaded mistakes in his two postseason runs, he had amazing stats and that's what counted. We brought him here because the scouting report basically summarized in one word that he's clutch, which to me means postseason success and bringing home a trophy when given a chance, no more than a chance that 9-7 team who got out scored all season long deserved, and more certainly not against the best team ever that played the regular season.

For someone who hated to be misquoted or misinterpreted, you seemed to have no problem doing the same thing.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:43 PM
Well, all that meant to say was that he is CLUTCH and he can close out the game when needed to bring home the trophy, which he did twice both in the last two minutes and winning 2 Super Bowl MVPs along the way, one which you would like to discount. Hey, if trophies were easily won, then how come none were won since the 1990 and before 2007? It's not like we did not get a chance, you could not say the 2000 Giants were not better in the regular season than these last two who won. The 2000 Giants were 12-4 after all. Eli did not make boneheaded mistakes in his two postseason runs, he had amazing stats and that's what counted. We brought him here because the scouting report basically summarized in one word that he's clutch, which to me means postseason success and bringing home a trophy when given a chance, no more than a chance that 9-7 team who got out scored all season long deserved, and more certainly not against the best team ever that played the regular season.

For someone who hated to be misquoted or misinterpted, you seemed to have no problem doing the same thing.

I promise you that I didn't misquote you. I actually copied and pasted your post.
My only point is that our TEAM won those two (actually all 4) SB's. Not one player. I do understand that the QB is a very important component of course.
But those wins were really team victories, especially given the tremendous defensive performances in both those playoff runs.

par404
01-23-2013, 08:48 PM
I can't help but see how strikingly similar Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are. Of course Eli has the 2 rings but both are wildly inconsistent but come crunch time, including playoff time, these 2 always show up. I would love to one day see these 2 go at it in a Superbowl.

Both even have similar nicknames- Joe Cool and Easy E.

No way. Joe Flacco has a rocket arm.

AllHailEli
01-23-2013, 09:12 PM
I promise you that I didn't misquote you. I actually copied and pasted your post.
My only point is that our TEAM won those two (actually all 4) SB's. Not one player. I do understand that the QB is a very important component of course.
But those wins were really team victories, especially given the tremendous defensive performances in both those playoff runs.

No one is arguing that, I'm certainly not about the team game. But we got Eli because he's clutch and he's proven that. Clutch players when given a chance will play their best at the biggest stage and at the most pressurized situation which he did in his two postseason runs. That's pretty much all I am saying. Yes, he played clutch in the two Super Bowl runs to win us the game, or better yet to outscore the opponent. I really don't know what term to use, so you will not misinterpret me. He could have just been flustered, and not play out of his mind. He could have been Mcnabb and threw up. Or he could just be Kerry Collins. Or he could just be Tony Romo in the posteason. At the worst, he did not lose us the Super Bowl games and at the best, he actually rose up to the challenge and outscored the opponent in the last 2 mins. Nothing against everybody else who played tremendous in the two postseason runs either, but their individual merit is not necessarily in discussion here. I guess what I'm saying is that if our QB was not Eli in those two postseason runs, who else could have played that position that would have not messed things up? Certainly, not Kerry Collins. We can even start in our division with Tony Romo. You think Tony Romo would not have squandered those two postseasons runs? He did have a better team in 2007. It was All-Pros vs All-Joes. We were never the best team in the regular season in both those runs, we actually just squeaked by and if we did not have a QB like Eli then we would still be chasing our 3rd Super Bowl.

BurnerNYG
01-23-2013, 10:01 PM
No one is arguing that, I'm certainly not about the team game. But we got Eli because he's clutch and he's proven that. Clutch players when given a chance will play their best at the biggest stage and at the most pressurized situation which he did in his two postseason runs. That's pretty much all I am saying. Yes, he played clutch in the two Super Bowl runs to win us the game, or better yet to outscore the opponent. I really don't know what term to use, so you will not misinterpret me. He could have just been flustered, and not play out of his mind. He could have been Mcnabb and threw up. Or he could just be Kerry Collins. Or he could just be Tony Romo in the posteason. At the worst, he did not lose us the Super Bowl games and at the best, he actually rose up to the challenge and outscored the opponent in the last 2 mins. Nothing against everybody else who played tremendous in the two postseason runs either, but their individual merit is not necessarily in discussion here. I guess what I'm saying is that if our QB was not Eli in those two postseason runs, who else could have played that position that would have not messed things up? Certainly, not Kerry Collins. We can even start in our division with Tony Romo. You think Tony Romo would not have squandered those two postseasons runs? He did have a better team in 2007. It was All-Pros vs All-Joes. We were never the best team in the regular season in both those runs, we actually just squeaked by and if we did not have a QB like Eli then we would still be chasing our 3rd Super Bowl.You know what... you're absolutely right and Eli does deserve a little bit more respect. I was on his case after the 2010 season for numerous reasons that I don't care to specify but since we won our 2nd title, how can you not appreciate the man? I'll probably criticize him again but not to the point where I wanna dump him... I mean unless he starts playing like Dave Brown.

TheBookOfEli
01-23-2013, 10:52 PM
No way. Joe Flacco has a rocket arm.

I think you're underestimating Eli's arm strength. I happen to think he's got a great arm, sure not as strong as Flacco but Eli can sling it.

EliDaMANning
01-24-2013, 11:12 AM
These 3 stooges need to knock off this nonsense about Giants fans claiming ELI won the SB. Every fan who gives credit to Eli bringing us rings in 07 and 11, realize that it was a TEAM effort. The defense played much better in both playoffs than their regular seasons. That was quite obvious. Every Giants fan will tell you holding NE to 14 points was remarkable. Nobody in their right mind will suggest anything different.

When Giants fans give credit to Eli or the offense, it isn't a knock on the defense. So shut up with the nonsense bickering because it is getting very annoying for us to have to keep repeating our stances in every thread.

Next time someone says Eli played a helluva game, please try not to say "Oh so the defense and the other 50+ guys didn't show up." You guys (MS, gumby, buddy) are the obvious ones who continue to put words in peoples mouths unnecessarily. Please try not to imply anything differently when someone is just throwing a compliment out there towards our QB. We mean no offense towards other players and the coaching staff.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 11:24 AM
No one is arguing that, I'm certainly not about the team game. But we got Eli because he's clutch and he's proven that. Clutch players when given a chance will play their best at the biggest stage and at the most pressurized situation which he did in his two postseason runs. That's pretty much all I am saying. Yes, he played clutch in the two Super Bowl runs to win us the game, or better yet to outscore the opponent. I really don't know what term to use, so you will not misinterpret me. He could have just been flustered, and not play out of his mind. He could have been Mcnabb and threw up. Or he could just be Kerry Collins. Or he could just be Tony Romo in the posteason. At the worst, he did not lose us the Super Bowl games and at the best, he actually rose up to the challenge and outscored the opponent in the last 2 mins. Nothing against everybody else who played tremendous in the two postseason runs either, but their individual merit is not necessarily in discussion here. I guess what I'm saying is that if our QB was not Eli in those two postseason runs, who else could have played that position that would have not messed things up? Certainly, not Kerry Collins. We can even start in our division with Tony Romo. You think Tony Romo would not have squandered those two postseasons runs? He did have a better team in 2007. It was All-Pros vs All-Joes. We were never the best team in the regular season in both those runs, we actually just squeaked by and if we did not have a QB like Eli then we would still be chasing our 3rd Super Bowl.

Your position in this post is quite valid. there is no doubt that Eli has been a clutch QB throughout his career. And I wouldn't suggest anything other than that.
But it generally bugs we when I hear posters use terms like "Eli carried the team" or Eli won us 2 SB's". I just believe that this is a team sport and our two SB's recently were especially team efforts. Our defense played tremendously in both runs and were were winning games by small margins. Our offense made plays when they had to and deserve great credit. Its also true that in those 8 playoff wins, we scored more than 24 points just once.
I would say that in general, the defensive performances were somewhat more impactful than the offense. especially in SB 42.

Eli is our QB and most certainly a leader on this team. He gets great credit for his contribution. But thats what it was...his "contribution". He didn't single handedly beat anyone.
And to your question about who could have given us the same result? Its impossible to know. i would say that Phil could have without question. But all that is pure speculation.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 11:27 AM
These 3 stooges need to knock off this nonsense about Giants fans claiming ELI won the SB. Every fan who gives credit to Eli bringing us rings in 07 and 11, realize that it was a TEAM effort. The defense played much better in both playoffs than their regular seasons. That was quite obvious. Every Giants fan will tell you holding NE to 14 points was remarkable. Nobody in their right mind will suggest anything different.

When Giants fans give credit to Eli or the offense, it isn't a knock on the defense. So shut up with the nonsense bickering because it is getting very annoying for us to have to keep repeating our stances in every thread.

Next time someone says Eli played a helluva game, please try not to say "Oh so the defense and the other 50+ guys didn't show up." You guys (MS, gumby, buddy) are the obvious ones who continue to put words in peoples mouths unnecessarily. Please try not to imply anything differently when someone is just throwing a compliment out there towards our QB. We mean no offense towards other players and the coaching staff.

I just got banned for a lot less than this. Be careful my friend.

Delicreep
01-24-2013, 02:03 PM
I love the one disclaimer "when only a TD will do". As you know, its actually easier to move the ball when only a TD will do (or at least both Peyton and Eli agreed it was).
Ben moved the ball in SB 43 and scored to win as did Montana vs. Cincy. As did Brady twice.
Not taking away from Eli. He did a great job. But it wasn't just Eli making plays. It was a lot of guys who don't get as much credit as the QB. Like the great blitz pickup by BJ to allow Plaxico the time to get open. Not to mention the great play by Steve Smith to turn a 3 yard pass into a first down.

This entire "Eli did it...Eli did it" as if they both weren't great team efforts is silliness in my humble opinion.

Comrade Morehead,

We are all aware of you belief that all quarterback are equal, and that you can simple sub out any quarterback at any time and the Proletariat will get the same glorious results. The individual does not matter; only the collective.

Fun fact from Morehead: Montana is just as good as Leif.

And by your massive distortions about Comrade Ben, Comrade Brady and First Secretary Montana I see you used to work for Pravda. Comrade Ben and Comrade Montana both started the drive knowing a FG would send it into overtime. True they scored, but General Eli remains the only one who had to score a TD and did it.
You simply and completely made up the Brady stuff out of whole cloth. Both time no where near fit the description of what General Eli did (or Comrade Ben and First Secretary Montana).
I honestly thought you were Gumby there for a second.

And way to twist what the Manning boys said. They didn't say it was easier to score a TD than a FG (something that every school child is taught on the collective).
They were talking about the mindset going in, not that it was easier to drive 88 yards than it is to drive 50ish. Knowing that you had to score made it easier on you mentally, because you didn't need to do the calculations, you just had to score.

Big, big difference.

It's not that it's silly to say "Eli did it", it's silly to argue that he didn't. I never said it was all Eli, I just said to give him credit for what he factually did and what is recognized world wide as having been done by Eli.

Comrade Morehead...it is you that is rejecting the glorious reality.

Dasvidaniya,

Delicreep

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 02:05 PM
Comrade Morehead,

We are all aware of you belief that all quarterback are equal, and that you can simple sub out any quarterback at any time and the Proletariat will get the same glorious results. The individual does not matter; only the collective.

Fun fact from Morehead: Montana is just as good as Leif.

And by your massive distortions about Comrade Ben, Comrade Brady and First Secretary Montana I see you used to work for Pravda. Comrade Ben and Comrade Montana both started the drive knowing a FG would send it into overtime. True they scored, but General Eli remains the only one who had to score a TD and did it.
You simply and completely made up the Brady stuff out of whole cloth. Both time no where near fit the description of what General Eli did (or Comrade Ben and First Secretary Montana).
I honestly thought you were Gumby there for a second.

And way to twist what the Manning boys said. They didn't say it was easier to score a TD than a FG (something that every school child is taught on the collective).
They were talking about the mindset going in, not that it was easier to drive 88 yards than it is to drive 50ish. Knowing that you had to score made it easier on you mentally, because you didn't need to do the calculations, you just had to score.

Big, big difference.

It's not that it's silly to say "Eli did it", it's silly to argue that he didn't. I never said it was all Eli, I just said to give him credit for what he factually did and what is recognized world wide as having been done by Eli.

Comrade Morehead...it is you that is rejecting the glorious reality.

Dasvidaniya,

Delicreep

Maybe you can refresh my memory.....
Why is it your view that I think all QB's are the same?

BTW...... you get big time style points from me for a creative post

gumby74
01-24-2013, 03:12 PM
Comrade Morehead,

We are all aware of you belief that all quarterback are equal, and that you can simple sub out any quarterback at any time and the Proletariat will get the same glorious results. The individual does not matter; only the collective.

Fun fact from Morehead: Montana is just as good as Leif.

And by your massive distortions about Comrade Ben, Comrade Brady and First Secretary Montana I see you used to work for Pravda. Comrade Ben and Comrade Montana both started the drive knowing a FG would send it into overtime. True they scored, but General Eli remains the only one who had to score a TD and did it.
You simply and completely made up the Brady stuff out of whole cloth. Both time no where near fit the description of what General Eli did (or Comrade Ben and First Secretary Montana).
I honestly thought you were Gumby there for a second.

And way to twist what the Manning boys said. They didn't say it was easier to score a TD than a FG (something that every school child is taught on the collective).
They were talking about the mindset going in, not that it was easier to drive 88 yards than it is to drive 50ish. Knowing that you had to score made it easier on you mentally, because you didn't need to do the calculations, you just had to score.

Big, big difference.

It's not that it's silly to say "Eli did it", it's silly to argue that he didn't. I never said it was all Eli, I just said to give him credit for what he factually did and what is recognized world wide as having been done by Eli.

Comrade Morehead...it is you that is rejecting the glorious reality.

Dasvidaniya,

Delicreep

This post was pretty funny, but now i distort/fabricate things? C'mon Deli, you're better than this.

Buddy333
01-24-2013, 03:35 PM
This is boring.

sharick88
01-24-2013, 03:39 PM
I find it amazing and quite unfair that a thread like this lasts way longer than the Peyton is better than Eli thread I made a few weeks ago.

gumby74
01-24-2013, 03:56 PM
I find it amazing and quite unfair that a thread like this lasts way longer than the Peyton is better than Eli thread I made a few weeks ago.

Replace Sanchez with Peyton and it will be even longer. The problem is that posting Peyton is better than Eli is something that most people already know and accept. Mention Flacco however, and Eli fan boys will begin to seethe.

Delicreep
01-24-2013, 04:01 PM
This post was pretty funny, but now i distort/fabricate things? C'mon Deli, you're better than this.

Most recent example? You attempted to pass off an irrelvent Tebow stat, and and when I called you on it, you literally and hilariously said a friend told you it was true.

gumby74
01-24-2013, 04:06 PM
Most recent example? You attempted to pass off an irrelvent Tebow stat, and and when I called you on it, you literally and hilariously said a friend told you it was true.

No more so than reading an article that states random facts also. Unless, you actually spend the time and background check every fact that is spit out these days, we are all guilty of it. It so happens that I trust that person who told me the "fact". And because i couldnt' find it doing a google search, doesn't make it untrue. It is what it is.

When it comes to Tebow, those folks do their homework. I'll take their word everytime.

Edit: And really, i could have just told you I knew it to be fact. But, I assumed you would be able to take the fact that I "assumed" maybe incorrectly, as an honest mistake. And not something i needed to use to further my point. Heck, I could have used any of those Tebow records contained in that link.

Delicreep
01-24-2013, 04:09 PM
Maybe you can refresh my memory.....
Why is it your view that I think all QB's are the same?

BTW...... you get big time style points from me for a creative post

Comrade Morehead,

I don't see how you have any choice.

The second you say that not all QB's are the same and that they are in fact capable of great individual performances, then you have lost this kerfuffle.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 04:10 PM
Most recent example? You attempted to pass off an irrelvent Tebow stat, and and when I called you on it, you literally and hilariously said a friend told you it was true.
Yes but Good 'Ol Morehead did no such thing.
And it IS easier to move the ball when you need a TD. Teams are willing to trade yards for seconds much more easily when they know you need a TD than need to get into FG range. Quite honestly, that's a no brainer my tovarich. (Oops!!!! ........... I mean my friend)

Delicreep
01-24-2013, 04:14 PM
No more so than reading an article that states random facts also. Unless, you actually spend the time and background check every fact that is spit out these days, we are all guilty of it. It so happens that I trust that person who told me the "fact". And because i couldnt' find it doing a google search, doesn't make it untrue. It is what it is.

When it comes to Tebow, those folks do their homework. I'll take their word everytime.

You will take their word for it every time despite me pointing out how it didn't even come close to resembling a fact?

Kinda pointless engaging you, wouldn't you say?

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 04:15 PM
Comrade Morehead,

I don't see how you have any choice.

The second you say that not all QB's are the same and that they are in fact capable of great individual performances, then you have lost this kerfuffle.

You do not get to use the word "kerfuffle" in such a frivolous way.
No one in their right mind would suggest that players aren't capable of great individual performances. What I would say is that objective stats are a inaccurate way to measure those performances. Since they are effected so much by so many other factors. (Game conditions, defense, quality of WR's, O line etc......)
AND.......
the point of performance is to win games. the stats obtained are not (in my view) accomplishments by themselves.

gumby74
01-24-2013, 04:19 PM
No more so than reading an article that states random facts also. Unless, you actually spend the time and background check every fact that is spit out these days, we are all guilty of it. It so happens that I trust that person who told me the "fact". And because i couldnt' find it doing a google search, doesn't make it untrue. It is what it is.

When it comes to Tebow, those folks do their homework. I'll take their word everytime.

Edit: And really, i could have just told you I knew it to be fact. But, I assumed you would be able to take the fact that I "assumed" maybe incorrectly, as an honest mistake. And not something i needed to use to further my point. Heck, I could have used any of those Tebow records contained in that link.


You will take their word for it every time despite me pointing out how it didn't even come close to resembling a fact?

Kinda pointless engaging you, wouldn't you say?

Huh? I mean as in if they say something, I will assume that it is in fact true, unless proven otherwise. You haven't shown me that the thing I said about Tebow was untrue. You merely asked me if I knew for sure.

And, I edited my original post. I really was giving you the benefit of the doubt in that you would take things the correct way.

Delicreep
01-24-2013, 04:22 PM
Yes but Good 'Ol Morehead did no such thing.
And it IS easier to move the ball when you need a TD. Teams are willing to trade yards for seconds much more easily when they know you need a TD than need to get into FG range. Quite honestly, that's a no brainer my tovarich. (Oops!!!! ........... I mean my friend)

Comrade Morehead,

They are willing to trade some yards, not all 88 in one shot. When you get close, the other team tightens; it takes more time and effort to get to that point with a TD.

Still easier to score a FG than a TD; probably why they count for different number of points.

And you are no Gumby: the Eli thing is like a religion to him.

gumby74
01-24-2013, 04:23 PM
Comrade Morehead,

They are willing to trade some yards, not all 88 in one shot. When you get close, the other team tightens; it takes more time and effort to get to that point with a TD.

Still easier to score a FG than a TD; probably why they count for different number of points.

And you are no Gumby: the Eli thing is like a religion to him.

Absolutely. Like a moth to a flame.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 04:26 PM
Comrade Morehead,

They are willing to trade some yards, not all 88 in one shot. When you get close, the other team tightens; it takes more time and effort to get to that point with a TD.

Still easier to score a FG than a TD; probably why they count for different number of points.

And you are no Gumby: the Eli thing is like a religion to him.

They do but its easier to get down there. Then when you have Plaxico to leave Ellis Hobbs' jock strap at the goal line for an easy TD pass, we have our victory. (Oh yeah, that blitz pickup by BJ was awesome as well)

AllHailEli
01-24-2013, 05:45 PM
Replace Sanchez with Peyton and it will be even longer. The problem is that posting Peyton is better than Eli is something that most people already know and accept. Mention Flacco however, and Eli fan boys will begin to seethe.

It must be so easy to scoff at a 2-time Super Bowl MVP knowing that before him Dave Brown and Danny Kanell brought 5 Super Bowls between them to the Giants. How the heck can you surpass those glory days? Don't you miss the celebration of being able to throw snowballs on the field like the good old days to show our appreciation to the team? Forget Canyon of Heroes and ticker tape parades, throwing snowballs was classic.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 06:20 PM
It must be so easy to scoff at a 2-time Super Bowl MVP knowing that before him Dave Brown and Danny Kanell brought 5 Super Bowls between them to the Giants. How the heck can you surpass those glory days? Don't you miss the celebration of being able to throw snowballs on the field like the good old days to show our appreciation to the team? Forget Canyon of Heroes and ticker tape parades, throwing snowballs was classic.
Do I sense a bit of sarcasm in your tone?

giantsfan420
01-24-2013, 06:56 PM
They do but its easier to get down there. Then when you have Plaxico to leave Ellis Hobbs' jock strap at the goal line for an easy TD pass, we have our victory. (Oh yeah, that blitz pickup by BJ was awesome as well)yeah ur right. that gw drive in sb 42 was totally easy bc we needed a td lol wowza's...

AllHailEli
01-24-2013, 06:58 PM
Do I sense a bit of sarcasm in your tone?

You meant to say this is not the alternate universe? Cuz it sure feels like a twilight zone. :) I could have sworn we have 9 or 10 Super Bowls mostly won in the 90s that's why he can scoff at a QB with only two Super Bowl MVPs.

giantsfan420
01-24-2013, 07:01 PM
yeah ur right. that gw drive in sb 42 was totally easy bc we needed a td lol wowza's...and by comparison, in sb 46, when a fg would have won it, you're right it was a much much more difficult drive...i dunno how bradshaw even got in the endzone with NE defending the field much more tightly...

giantsfan420
01-24-2013, 07:06 PM
but all kidding aside, i have to believe the % of converting on a gw FG is much higher than the % of converting a needed TD to win...

Delicreep
01-24-2013, 07:06 PM
Huh? I mean as in if they say something, I will assume that it is in fact true, unless proven otherwise. You haven't shown me that the thing I said about Tebow was untrue. You merely asked me if I knew for sure.

And, I edited my original post. I really was giving you the benefit of the doubt in that you would take things the correct way.

So...If I may paraphrase?

"Look, I'm gonna say a lot of things and make a lot of claims, and cite a lot of facts, and they may or may not be true. If someone tells me something that backs up my point, it's not really my responsibility to make sure it's right; It's my job to repeat it as though it were true. Things I say are facts may in actually only be facts to certain people, and in a way, isn't that more important than them actually being facts?"

gumby74
01-24-2013, 07:48 PM
Huh? I mean as in if they say something, I will assume that it is in fact true, unless proven otherwise. You haven't shown me that the thing I said about Tebow was untrue. You merely asked me if I knew for sure.

And, I edited my original post. I really was giving you the benefit of the doubt in that you would take things the correct way.


So...If I may paraphrase?

"Look, I'm gonna say a lot of things and make a lot of claims, and cite a lot of facts, and they may or may not be true. If someone tells me something that backs up my point, it's not really my responsibility to make sure it's right; It's my job to repeat it as though it were true. Things I say are facts may in actually only be facts to certain people, and in a way, isn't that more important than them actually being facts?"

Now you're just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. You can't seriously have gotten the above from what I said.