PDA

View Full Version : Revis for our 1st?



elitocruz
01-23-2013, 08:06 PM
Would you do that right now? tonight? Jets say they might explore a trade. at 19, heck even at #1, there are no guarantees. That guy is a guarantee. a lock down corner in his prime. would mask basically our biggest problem. and with Prince make our pass rush more dangerous with "coverage sacks."

On the flip side, he's entering his 7th year and has had a knee surgery. so it's risky. and you won't get the same mileage as you would out of a 2013 pick. tough call, or easy decision for the Giants? (also, giants wouldn't offer the 1st right out the gate anyway, but if it came to that, would you do it?)

Flip Empty
01-23-2013, 08:11 PM
He's too expensive.

elitocruz
01-23-2013, 08:12 PM
as the best cover corner in football should be. obviously we'd have to trim some fat. but give me an answer as if money and the cap were no object.

joemorrisforprez
01-23-2013, 08:16 PM
Hypothetically.....yes.

GTGiantsFan
01-23-2013, 08:16 PM
Wow. Yes?

NYG4lifeNYK
01-23-2013, 08:16 PM
Can't even afford our own guys... this guy wants to restructure every single year.

Carter.525
01-23-2013, 08:18 PM
I'm sure Revis would love it.. but it ain't happenin

Flip Empty
01-23-2013, 08:18 PM
as the best cover corner in football should be. obviously we'd have to trim some fat. but give me an answer as if money and the cap were no object.
If money was no object.. yes, probably.

elitocruz
01-23-2013, 08:21 PM
I THINK I WOULD TOO. 1ST RD PICK IS NO GUARANTEE TO BE GREAT, OR TO EVEN LAST 5 YEARS. SO WHY NOT GO AFTER REVIS? (ASSUMING HIS KNEE IS GOOD TO GO). YOU LOCK DOWN ONE SIDE OF THE FIELD. HOPE PRINCE KEEPS GETTING BETTER ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND YOU SOLVE A MASSIVE PROBLEM OVERNIGHT. NOT ONLY IN THE D-BACKFIELD, BUT UP FRONT WHERE THE PASS RUSH WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE. THEN IN ROUND 2 - 7 YOU CAN ADDRESS LB, AND OL. AS WELL AS IN FREE AGENCY.

If money was no object.. yes, probably.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:21 PM
If money was no object.. yes, probably.
Well in the cap era, money is ALWAYS an object.
To give up a first AND pay this kid what he wants, PLUS he's coming off an ACL......seems like a bad move.

Flip Empty
01-23-2013, 08:24 PM
Well in the cap era, money is ALWAYS an object.
To give up a first AND pay this kid what he wants, PLUS he's coming off an ACL......seems like a bad move.
Yeah, realistically, no, but the OP posed a hypothetical.
Just give him whatever Adrian Peterson took and he'll be fine

elitocruz
01-23-2013, 08:25 PM
and remember... this is a passing league right now. if even one of your corners can't cover, you're a mess defensively. we play Peyton/Demaryius, Rodgers, Cutler, Stafford/Calvin, Rivers, RG III, Romo/Dez etc next season alone.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:28 PM
Yeah, realistically, no, but the OP posed a hypothetical.
Just give him whatever Adrian Peterson took and he'll be fine
Honestly...a corner coming off an ACL is as big or (bigger) a risk than a mid first round pick.
Plus he makes a ton. Plus he's been in the league for a while now. I'd rather have a young prospect taken with the 19th pick.

Also Revis doesn't really fit our scheme. He's a press corner guy who would have problems in a conference with RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson and the other mobile QB's.
We are a zone defense now.

ashleymarie
01-23-2013, 08:29 PM
We are wanting to win the SB next year in our own house, who do we send out their to do that for us? Webby?

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:32 PM
We are wanting to win the SB next year in our own house, who do we send out their to do that for us? Webby?
Our scheme is more suitable for corners who play in a scheme where they face the QB and have good ball skills.
Revis doesn't really fit that (except the ball skills). He's a pure press cover guy.

elitocruz
01-23-2013, 08:34 PM
in case you haven't noticed our "scheme" stunk up the joint last year. and let's be honest, for most of 2011 too, until the pass rush came on late. it's the same scheme you all want Perry fired over. at least according to the posts I've been reading since about the Cincinnati game

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:36 PM
in case you haven't noticed our "scheme" stunk up the joint last year. and let's be honest, for most of 2011 too, until the pass rush came on late. it's the same scheme you all want Perry fired over. at least according to the posts I've been reading since about the Cincinnati game
We can't have a bunch of corners running out there chasing WR's when RGIII is running past them.
Our scheme (at least as it pertains to our zone coverage) is highly appropriate for the new and ever changing NFL.

And I never once called for PF to be fired. The guy's defense won a SB 12 months ago for God's sake.

RoanokeFan
01-23-2013, 08:37 PM
We can't have a bunch of corners running out there chasing WR's when RGIII is running past them.
Our scheme (at least as it pertains to our zone coverage) is highly appropriate for the new and ever changing NFL.

And I never once called for PF to be fired. The guy's defense won a SB 12 months ago for God's sake.

Or RG III limping past them :rolleyes:

ALLnygIN
01-23-2013, 08:37 PM
There are very few players I mean very few who I'd consider giving up a 1st round pick for. Revis would be one of those few.

Drystt
01-23-2013, 08:38 PM
I would offer a 2nd and a 5th for Revis and maybe some incentives if he makes pro bowl or whatever. I'm sure he's talented enough to adjust to Fewell's scheme and dominate as well. This would make huge media news and make Giants a little bit more respectable if this were to happen.

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:39 PM
I would offer a 2nd and a 5th for Revis and maybe some incentives if he makes pro bowl or whatever. I'm sure he's talented enough to adjust to Fewell's scheme and dominate as well. This would make huge media news and make Giants a little bit more respectable if this were to happen.
Please explain the relevance of that.

You are suggesting that we be exactly what the Giants have never been.

Drystt
01-23-2013, 08:44 PM
Please explain the relevance of that.

You are suggesting that we be exactly what the Giants have never been.

Why you being such a butthole? Just stated my opinion. Don't like it? Keep scrolling.
Anyways, what I was suggesting was that it would be a big "sexy" FA pick up which would make the idiots in ESPN be less bias towards this team.

jomo
01-23-2013, 08:45 PM
Bad idea, something the Jets would do...........................

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:46 PM
Why you being such a butthole? Just stated my opinion. Don't like it? Keep scrolling.
Anyways, what I was suggesting was that it would be a big "sexy" FA pick up which would make the idiots in ESPN be less bias towards this team.
I was having a MB conversation. It doesn't have to get ugly.
I was asking you why you think its important to have some kind of PR advantage. My point is that we don't ever chase that kind of thing.
Do you disagree?

And what does ESPN have to do with the success of our team?

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:50 PM
Note to Mods......

Did you notice how well I took being called a bad word?

Just saying...... Need some good will capital.

gmen0820
01-23-2013, 08:52 PM
Absolutely not.

craigjr007
01-23-2013, 08:56 PM
Absolutely

Morehead State
01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
Absolutely
If the Jets offered Revis in a trade right now they wouldn't get any more than a 2nd rounder. Maybe less due to the ACL.

Why would we pay 1st rounder for an injured player? Seems like a bad move.

elitocruz
01-23-2013, 08:58 PM
boys, boys... settle down. keep it to a football move only. giants would never do it for headlines. we know at least that much about our franchise. debate it from a purely football standpoint.

I was having a MB conversation. It doesn't have to get ugly.
I was asking you why you think its important to have some kind of PR advantage. My point is that we don't ever chase that kind of thing.
Do you disagree?

And what does ESPN have to do with the success of our team?

Joe Morrison
01-23-2013, 09:03 PM
Bad idea, something the Jets would do...........................
Not even the best corner on the Jets afterall!

elitocruz
01-23-2013, 09:06 PM
well, i did say the giants wouldn't offer the 1st rounder right out of the chute. just saying if it came to that, would you do it? your answer is obviously "no"

If the Jets offered Revis in a trade right now they wouldn't get any more than a 2nd rounder. Maybe less due to the ACL.

Why would we pay 1st rounder for an injured player? Seems like a bad move.

gmen0820
01-23-2013, 09:06 PM
If the Jets offered Revis in a trade right now they wouldn't get any more than a 2nd rounder. Maybe less due to the ACL.Why would we pay 1st rounder for an injured player? Seems like a bad move.Forget the injury, which is huge. This guy will want a new deal after next year, and it'll be astronomical.

GTGiantsFan
01-23-2013, 09:07 PM
The Giants defense didn't win a superbowl 12 months ago... wow lol.

And you guys are really assuming the Jets would trade the best CB in the NFL for the 19th overall pick, and are complaining if it does happen?

gmen0820
01-23-2013, 09:09 PM
The Giants defense didn't win a superbowl 12 months ago... wow lol.And you guys are really assuming the Jets would trade the best CB in the NFL for the 19th overall pick, and are complaining if it does happen?The Jets reportedly want to trade him, and a first round pick would be a very generous offer for a player that always wants a new deal and is coming off ACL surgery.

Cool Papa B.
01-23-2013, 09:15 PM
That ACL injury is a concern for any team thinking about trading for him. I know treatment and recovery for ACL's have improved over the years- just look at Adfrian Peterson- but we don't know how bad the tear is and if he can actually recover as good or as fast as Peterson. I would have to package it in a way that doesn't include a 1st rounder. And you know if the Jets were to do a deal with the Giants, they would want JPP somehow included.

gmen0820
01-23-2013, 09:25 PM
That ACL injury is a concern for any team thinking about trading for him. I know treatment and recovery for ACL's have improved over the years- just look at Adfrian Peterson- but we don't know how bad the tear is and if he can actually recover as good or as fast as Peterson. I would have to package it in a way that doesn't include a 1st rounder. And you know if the Jets were to do a deal with the Giants, they would want JPP somehow included.Who wouldn't? Lol

MattyD21
01-23-2013, 09:37 PM
Thought i saw an article or somebody saying that the ACL was the hardest injury to come back from as a Corner Back

DIPSET_ALL_DAY
01-23-2013, 09:38 PM
Jets are getting rid of him BECAUSE he wants too much money

giantsfan420
01-23-2013, 10:09 PM
we have a younger version of revis in prince, dont see the need to trade any picks for him imo

Drez
01-23-2013, 10:47 PM
Why you being such a butthole? Just stated my opinion. Don't like it? Keep scrolling.
Anyways, what I was suggesting was that it would be a big "sexy" FA pick up which would make the idiots in ESPN be less bias towards this team.
Screw the media.

However, the big problem is that he's coming off an ACL and has a huge contract... And wants to redo his deal every couple of years so he can maintain being the highest paid player. He's a good player, but on our team he's not worth the contract. Al Davis really ****ed the market with his Nnamdi deal a bunch of years ago.

TCHOF
01-23-2013, 10:50 PM
Forget the injury, which is huge. This guy will want a new deal after next year, and it'll be astronomical.

Exactly. Not only do you have to give up the pick, you're going to have to pay the man

TCHOF
01-23-2013, 10:52 PM
I would offer a 2nd and a 5th for Revis and maybe some incentives if he makes pro bowl or whatever. I'm sure he's talented enough to adjust to Fewell's scheme and dominate as well. This would make huge media news and make Giants a little bit more respectable if this were to happen.

We should make a move because it might make "huge media news"? I think that you have mistaken this board for the Jets message board.

EJ Blue
01-23-2013, 11:55 PM
Give me Ed Reed.

Marvelousmik
01-23-2013, 11:56 PM
Honestly...a corner coming off an ACL is as big or (bigger) a risk than a mid first round pick.
Plus he makes a ton. Plus he's been in the league for a while now. I'd rather have a young prospect taken with the 19th pick.

Also Revis doesn't really fit our scheme. He's a press corner guy who would have problems in a conference with RGIII, Kapernick, Wilson and the other mobile QB's.
We are a zone defense now.

I strongly disagree with your last point. A system is only as good as the players that are in it. In other words why not just stock up on good players? I would never say to myself "i don't want Von Miller on this team, he doesn't fit the system", or ware, or Patrick Willis, or James Harrison, etc. I don't care what system they are in. I think it would make more sense to say "That guy is a great player, we can find ways to fit him into our system and play him to his strengths". It's a coaches job to find ways to utilize the talent they have.

Also, Revis is good in zone as well. It just benefits the team more to play him in man to man coverage. Why waste a corner in zone if he can shut down The best receiver on the other team? If we play against qbs like Rg3 kapernick or Wilson, and we have great corners who excel in man to man coverage, we could blitz contain and play press. I doubt any of these Qbs would put on a show like did they this season against a defense like the jets were 3-4 years ago when rex first got there.

And last but not least why not just change the system then? If you have corners who are better at man to man then dont play so much zone. Blitz more. use a qb spy instead of zone. The only reason i wouldnt want revis for a first is because of the ACL injury.But when he is healthy he is the best defensive player in the NFL and probably the best corner to ever play the game.

I think we use the word "system" and try to complicate things too much. If you're a good corner then you are a good corner. If you're a great Quarterback then you are a great quarterback. Get the Great player first, worry about the "system" later.

Flip Empty
01-23-2013, 11:59 PM
I think it would make more sense to say "That guy is a great player, we can find ways to fit him into our system and play him to his strengths". I think its a coaches job to use players to their strengths and find ways in order to fit them into their system.
Too bad this is the Giants. Adapt or die.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-24-2013, 12:04 AM
is there any way to pull this off with out the inclusion of the first? can't we job the jets like everyone else? lol. steep price for a one year rental,,he would have to agree to contract extension if we got him and he will command big bucks. don't see it happening but he and prince with there 3 safety set would be formidable(assuming revis' knee is good to go)

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 12:26 AM
I strongly disagree with your last point. A system is only as good as the players that are in it. In other words why not just stock up on good players? I would never say to myself "i don't want Von Miller on this team, he doesn't fit the system", or ware, or Patrick Willis, or James Harrison, etc. I don't care what system they are in. I think it would make more sense to say "That guy is a great player, we can find ways to fit him into our system and play him to his strengths". It's a coaches job to find ways to utilize the talent they have.

Also, Revis is good in zone as well. It just benefits the team more to play him in man to man coverage. Why waste a corner in zone if he can shut down The best receiver on the other team? If we play against qbs like Rg3 kapernick or Wilson, and we have great corners who excel in man to man coverage, we could blitz contain and play press. I doubt any of these Qbs would put on a show like did they this season against a defense like the jets were 3-4 years ago when rex first got there.

And last but not least why not just change the system then? If you have corners who are better at man to man then dont play so much zone. Blitz more. use a qb spy instead of zone. The only reason i wouldnt want revis for a first is because of the ACL injury.But when he is healthy he is the best defensive player in the NFL and probably the best corner to ever play the game.

I think we use the word "system" and try to complicate things too much. If you're a good corner then you are a good corner. If you're a great Quarterback then you are a great quarterback. Get the Great player first, worry about the "system" later.Well said, theoretically you hit it on the head.


Too bad this is the Giants. Adapt or die.Boom, reality!

Toadofsteel
01-24-2013, 01:02 AM
If the jets offered Revis for a first, I would counter with a second for Cromartie. No? Hell, he can't be worse than Corey Toaster...

MattyD21
01-24-2013, 01:19 AM
Besides their cap problems, they wont be able to tag revis after this season...should offer a 2nd and if plays a certain amount of games should give them a first.

BuffyBlueII
01-24-2013, 01:31 AM
Note to Mods......

Did you notice how well I took being called a bad word?

Just saying...... Need some good will capital.

VDC, that was very good of you. Everyone on the MB is proud.

BuffyBlueII
01-24-2013, 01:38 AM
I would take the risk and give up a 1st rounder for Derrele Revis if it were up to me. Granted he is coming of an ACL injury but if he comes back healthy, there is not a better corner in NFL. Heck, in my opinion he is one of the top 5 corners of all time.

Buto
01-24-2013, 03:00 AM
Too expensive. We need a MLB and another option to stop the run.
We'll find a corner somewhere but the best CBs in the game won't stop the run on this team.

Jppallday
01-24-2013, 03:36 AM
Never ever going to happen. Not only would the jets never trade him to us, but we aren't even sure if we can pay Nicks and Cruz. We definitely can't sign them AND Revis

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-24-2013, 03:51 AM
just to throw this out there,,,randy moss was traded for a fourth rounder back in 2005 when he was healthy and still playing at a high level. first I don't think they trade him across town, but offer a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year, or something like that. the problem is his contract is up next year so he would be a rental, unless a new contract could be negotiated. I just heard robin lundberg say he is looking for $60 million in guaranteed money? that's where all of this becomes a dream rather than a reality.

Captain Chaos
01-24-2013, 05:42 AM
Can't imagine the Giants taking on that type of salary. Even though he would solidify our secondary we can't afford his contract.

M00KIE
01-24-2013, 06:15 AM
With our luck, as soon as he got here the refs would suddenly start calling all his PI.

CowboysSuck
01-24-2013, 07:24 AM
Of course. The guy is a top #3 corner.

BlueReign
01-24-2013, 09:00 AM
Webster, Rolle and a 3rd for Revis. That should shave off enough cap.

VEGAS-NYG-FAN
01-24-2013, 09:01 AM
If your concern is just to get by RG3 and prepare for him defensively, you need to wake up, as thats all you will be, NFC Champs and Lose in the Playoffs. You better figure a way to Stop SF and their Zone Read Offense, before Kaperneck makes us Look silly next year...With what they have in place for OL,LB,DL,TE,RB,QB, they look like the team to beat for some time. With that said, we need LB who can cover the likes of VD and Corners who can cover the likes of DT,Dex,Megatron,Packers Wr etc... Our first 3 picks need to be LB,OL,CB or LB,CB,OL.

We need a fast,Impact, Covering , tackling, Machine with that first pick. I guy who when met the challenge vs the best team in NCAA Football last year left it all on the Field vs ALABAMA... that Pick is Alec Ogletree, LB Georgia. ...If you do not think so...just watch this video of him.

http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?27354-With-The-19th-Pick-in-the-2013-NFL-Draft

GameTime
01-24-2013, 09:07 AM
more ACL issues for the Giants.....nah....

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 09:32 AM
VDC, that was very good of you. Everyone on the MB is proud.
I would really appreciate it if you would put me on your "ignore" list.

Carter.525
01-24-2013, 09:34 AM
pass. Revis is like Osi, he wants more money every year..

TCHOF
01-24-2013, 09:44 AM
pass. Revis is like Osi, he wants more money every year..

except that Revis deserves the money.

SimmsandLT
01-24-2013, 09:46 AM
as the best cover corner in football should be. obviously we'd have to trim some fat. but give me an answer as if money and the cap were no object.

Sure I'll ignore reality of the cap, his injury, the players to cut to fit him, and tell you that yes, make the trade..

This post by you should automatically invalidate the rest of this thread.

Ruttiger711
01-24-2013, 09:47 AM
Would you do that right now? tonight? Jets say they might explore a trade. at 19, heck even at #1, there are no guarantees. That guy is a guarantee. a lock down corner in his prime. would mask basically our biggest problem. and with Prince make our pass rush more dangerous with "coverage sacks."

On the flip side, he's entering his 7th year and has had a knee surgery. so it's risky. and you won't get the same mileage as you would out of a 2013 pick. tough call, or easy decision for the Giants? (also, giants wouldn't offer the 1st right out the gate anyway, but if it came to that, would you do it?)

Thats the question, with this surgery is his prime past him? To trade a #1, for ANY team is a huge leap of faith. Pass.

TCHOF
01-24-2013, 10:01 AM
Sure I'll ignore reality of the cap, his injury, the players to cut to fit him, and tell you that yes, make the trade..

This post by you should automatically invalidate the rest of this thread.

The money and the cap are the biggest consideration.

Trading a draft pick for Revis is a no-brainer. Trading a draft pick for Revis and then paying him $50M+ after a knee injury? Not so much . . .

Drez
01-24-2013, 10:09 AM
except that Revis deserves the money.No he doesn't. He wants franchise QB money. CBs are important, but not that important. The decline in production between Revis and a guy you can pay $6m-$8m doesn't justify the extra money.

EliDaMANning
01-24-2013, 10:16 AM
Having another shut down corner will compensate for our lack of pass rush and run stopping LB. It's going to be very very difficult to pass on us with Revis. I would try to avoid giving up a first but tempted to give up multiple picks in the later rounds.

EJ Blue
01-24-2013, 10:20 AM
We aren't the Cowboys.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 10:21 AM
Having another shut down corner will compensate for our lack of pass rush and run stopping LB. It's going to be very very difficult to pass on us with Revis. I would try to avoid giving up a first but tempted to give up multiple picks in the later rounds.
There is no way of knowing how he will come back from this injury. ACL injuries effect corners more than any position. There is also no way of knowing if he is still a "shutdown" corner and if he is...for how much longer.
In other words, the jury is still out on whether or not he is still the player he was.
PLUS, he only has one more year on his contract and has held out before. No reason to believe he wouldn't again.

Carter.525
01-24-2013, 10:28 AM
except that Revis deserves the money.

true, but NY doesnt have it..

EliDaMANning
01-24-2013, 10:29 AM
There is no way of knowing how he will come back from this injury. ACL injuries effect corners more than any position. There is also no way of knowing if he is still a "shutdown" corner and if he is...for how much longer.
In other words, the jury is still out on whether or not he is still the player he was.
PLUS, he only has one more year on his contract and has held out before. No reason to believe he wouldn't again.There is no way of knowing how our draft picks will turn out. There is no way of knowing how long they'll play either.

Reese does a good job with our 1st rounders so I would prefer to keep that pick. I would much rather try to give up a bunch of later picks because our coaching staff won't play those guys anyways. Matter of fact, I wouldn't mind trading a first rounder if we're going to end up giving him the David Wilson treatment like we did last year.

TCHOF
01-24-2013, 10:41 AM
No he doesn't. He wants franchise QB money. CBs are important, but not that important. The decline in production between Revis and a guy you can pay $6m-$8m doesn't justify the extra money.

I'm not really sure exactly what he is asking for, and his asking price may be ridiculous. What I do know is that he will get a lot of money.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 11:31 AM
There is no way of knowing how our draft picks will turn out. There is no way of knowing how long they'll play either.

Reese does a good job with our 1st rounders so I would prefer to keep that pick. I would much rather try to give up a bunch of later picks because our coaching staff won't play those guys anyways. Matter of fact, I wouldn't mind trading a first rounder if we're going to end up giving him the David Wilson treatment like we did last year.
Trading a first round pick for a guy who's coming off an ACL is a bad move. Plus it flies directly in the face of what we're all about.
This is the kind of deal the Skins (pre Shanahan) and the Cowboys make. Not us.

Its nice fodder to pass the day on the MB, but that's it.

dezzzR
01-24-2013, 11:56 AM
We can't have a bunch of corners running out there chasing WR's when RGIII is running past them.
Our scheme (at least as it pertains to our zone coverage) is highly appropriate for the new and ever changing NFL.

And I never once called for PF to be fired. The guy's defense won a SB 12 months ago for God's sake.Giving up 12000 yards in two years says otherwise.

dezzzR
01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
If we did trade him for a 1st rounder, could the Giants renegotiat his contract? Either way its not the type of move Giants would make.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 11:58 AM
Giving up 12000 yards in two years says otherwise.
Speaking of a guy who want PF fired.......

Oh and BTW...the scheme you have been advocating is that of Spags. Interestingly enough his defense gave up the most yards in NFL history this season. The league is changing Dez. Press coverage is dangerous with these mobile QB's.

shane4177
01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
NO.....he is damaged goods, and wants more $ every year. As far as I am concerned he doesn't have leverage for more $ when he is coming off an ACL injury year.....

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 12:01 PM
I strongly disagree with your last point. A system is only as good as the players that are in it. In other words why not just stock up on good players? I would never say to myself "i don't want Von Miller on this team, he doesn't fit the system", or ware, or Patrick Willis, or James Harrison, etc. I don't care what system they are in. I think it would make more sense to say "That guy is a great player, we can find ways to fit him into our system and play him to his strengths". It's a coaches job to find ways to utilize the talent they have.

Also, Revis is good in zone as well. It just benefits the team more to play him in man to man coverage. Why waste a corner in zone if he can shut down The best receiver on the other team? If we play against qbs like Rg3 kapernick or Wilson, and we have great corners who excel in man to man coverage, we could blitz contain and play press. I doubt any of these Qbs would put on a show like did they this season against a defense like the jets were 3-4 years ago when rex first got there.

And last but not least why not just change the system then? If you have corners who are better at man to man then dont play so much zone. Blitz more. use a qb spy instead of zone. The only reason i wouldnt want revis for a first is because of the ACL injury.But when he is healthy he is the best defensive player in the NFL and probably the best corner to ever play the game.

I think we use the word "system" and try to complicate things too much. If you're a good corner then you are a good corner. If you're a great Quarterback then you are a great quarterback. Get the Great player first, worry about the "system" later.

Oddly enough, and a bit off topic, but that's how Reese describes his draft philosophy

dezzzR
01-24-2013, 12:07 PM
Speaking of a guy who want PF fired.......

Oh and BTW...the scheme you have been advocating is that of Spags. Interestingly enough his defense gave up the most yards in NFL history this season. The league is changing Dez. Press coverage is dangerous with these mobile QB's.Who does Spags have? Vilma? That defense has nooobody.
I never suggested we replace Perry with Spags. Id like to do some things Spags does, like send more than 4 guys more than once a game if that. and have our corners closer to WRs instead of giving them 8 to 10 yards to work with almost every play.

So giving up 6000+ yards a season is the new normal now? Give me a break.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 12:08 PM
Oddly enough, and a bit off topic, but that's how Reese describes his draft philosophy
Its certainly true that we used Webby in press coverage in 2011. Not really sure if we did that this season or not. So I'm sure he could fit here if we made some adjustments to our scheme.
But he's a guy coming off an ACL. He's extremely expensive and has shown that he is willing to hold out to get what he wants.
Would our defense be better on average with him in it? ....Probably. Is it worth a 1st round pick and all the other potential problems? .... No.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 12:09 PM
Who does Spags have? Vilma? That defense has nooobody.
I never suggested we replace Perry with Spags. Id like to do some things Spags does, like send more than 4 guys more than once a game if that. and have our corners closer to WRs instead of giving them 8 to 10 yards to work with almost every play.

So giving up 6000+ yards a season is the new normal now? Give me a break.
No. We need better players. We need player that can stay on the field.
Get those two things and our defense will perform quite well.

Toadofsteel
01-24-2013, 12:10 PM
No. We need better players. We need player that can stay on the field.
Get those two things and our defense will perform quite well.

We also need players that care. Some of these guys have decided that since they have two rings they can just coast the rest of their careers. It's one thing to see Corey Toaster get burned due to some nagging injury, but what about Tuck and Osi?

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 12:14 PM
Its certainly true that we used Webby in press coverage in 2011. Not really sure if we did that this season or not. So I'm sure he could fit here if we made some adjustments to our scheme.
But he's a guy coming off an ACL. He's extremely expensive and has shown that he is willing to hold out to get what he wants.
Would our defense be better on average with him in it? ....Probably. Is it worth a 1st round pick and all the other potential problems? .... No.

I don't think Reese would give up a 1st for a player coming off ACL surgery. He usually takes a conservative approach as with Smith and Boss.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 12:15 PM
We also need players that care. Some of these guys have decided that since they have two rings they can just coast the rest of their careers. It's one thing to see Corey Toaster get burned due to some nagging injury, but what about Tuck and Osi?
Well Osi is essentially gone and I can't imagine that anyone would accuse Tuck of not playing his *** off.
I don't know if effort is a problem. Maybe it is to some limited extent. But to me the real problem is simply the quality of play on the field.
We have a lot of ordinary players on defense. Our best player (JPP) is constantly being displaced to playing out of position by Osi on passing downs.
(I guess that IS coaching). But we just need more playmakers on defense. We have gotten old pretty fast on that side of the ball.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 12:16 PM
I don't think Reese would give up a 1st for a player coming off ACL surgery. He's usually takes a conservative approach as with Smith and Boss.
Of course he won't.
But it does give us something to talk about.

dezzzR
01-24-2013, 12:26 PM
Well Osi is essentially gone and I can't imagine that anyone would accuse Tuck of not playing his *** off.
I don't know if effort is a problem. Maybe it is to some limited extent. But to me the real problem is simply the quality of play on the field.
We have a lot of ordinary players on defense. Our best player (JPP) is constantly being displaced to playing out of position by Osi on passing downs.
(I guess that IS coaching). But we just need more playmakers on defense. We have gotten old pretty fast on that side of the ball.Admitting we have a problem is the first step. :D

EliDaMANning
01-24-2013, 12:32 PM
Revis is one of the best CB ever. He abused the likes of Nicks and Dez in 2011. If we don't look into this further i'll be disappointed.

Redeyejedi
01-24-2013, 12:36 PM
Revis is one of the best CB ever. He abused the likes of Nicks and Dez in 2011. If we don't look into this further i'll be disappointed. they are over the cap already with 22 FA's they need to lock up JPP,Cruz,Nicks and Beatty at the min there is no way they can afford a 12 Million dollar a year CB. They would also likely have to part with 2 1st round picks

jomo
01-24-2013, 12:37 PM
Revis is one of the best CB ever. He abused the likes of Nicks and Dez in 2011. If we don't look into this further i'll be disappointed.Coming off knee surgery and never allows his contract to actually be put to bed. He's a bad bet for us.

JB456
01-24-2013, 12:45 PM
Speaking of a guy who want PF fired.......

Oh and BTW...the scheme you have been advocating is that of Spags. Interestingly enough his defense gave up the most yards in NFL history this season. The league is changing Dez. Press coverage is dangerous with these mobile QB's.

Quick question. Would you want PF back in 2014 if the Giants defense performs at a similar level in 2013 as it did in 2012?

If your answer is yes, you should prepare yourself to be dissapointed because the Giants will can his arse. 2012 was PF's mulligan (He gets one due to the Giants Superbowl run) and I don't expect the Giants to give him a 2nd.

ShakeandBake
01-24-2013, 01:08 PM
I would be surprised if he leaves this year.

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 01:15 PM
Of course he won't.
But it does give us something to talk about.

Never a loss for topics here lol

Ruttiger711
01-24-2013, 01:45 PM
Revis is one of the best CB ever. He abused the likes of Nicks and Dez in 2011. If we don't look into this further i'll be disappointed.

Show me the Carfax

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 01:51 PM
Quick question. Would you want PF back in 2014 if the Giants defense performs at a similar level in 2013 as it did in 2012?

If your answer is yes, you should prepare yourself to be dissapointed because the Giants will can his arse. 2012 was PF's mulligan (He gets one due to the Giants Superbowl run) and I don't expect the Giants to give him a 2nd.
If we had the players in place and still played poor defensively, then yes. If the problem next year isn't coaching...then probably not.
We know this DC can field a good defense because we saw it in the playoffs in 2011.
My view is that essentially, its poor play by the players and not the coaching.

Drez
01-24-2013, 04:41 PM
they are over the cap already with 22 FA's they need to lock up JPP,Cruz,Nicks and Beatty at the min there is no way they can afford a 12 Million dollar a year CB. They would also likely have to part with 2 1st round picks
The Jets will NOT get 2 1sts for Revis. Especially not off an ACL.

Drez
01-24-2013, 04:42 PM
Revis is one of the best CB ever. He abused the likes of Nicks and Dez in 2011. If we don't look into this further i'll be disappointed.Prepare to be disappointed. Especially when you can sign 2 or 3 quality players for the amount of money Revis will want. And the headache of him threatening to hold out every other year for a new contract.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-24-2013, 05:06 PM
Prepare to be disappointed. Especially when you can sign 2 or 3 quality players for the amount of money Revis will want. And the headache of him threatening to hold out every other year for a new contract.

he would have to agree on a long term deal with his new team before a trade was made I would think,,which is why I dont see him leaving the jets until next year. nobody is giving up anything of value and paying him at the same time.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 05:10 PM
he would have to agree on a long term deal with his new team before a trade was made I would think,,which is why I dont see him leaving the jets until next year. nobody is giving up anything of value and paying him at the same time.
I agree. He will need to show that he can still play at a high level after the injury. The Jets are between a rock and a hard place here. The injury reduces his trade value right now and he's a FA after next season. If I were them I would make him play it out next year and get a 3rd round compensatory pick. 1 additional season plus a third is probably better than a second.

His value is only high on the Giants MB.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-24-2013, 05:38 PM
I agree. He will need to show that he can still play at a high level after the injury. The Jets are between a rock and a hard place here. The injury reduces his trade value right now and he's a FA after next season. If I were them I would make him play it out next year and get a 3rd round compensatory pick. 1 additional season plus a third is probably better than a second.

His value is only high on the Giants MB.

the jets really screwed themselves by letting everyone know he was available,,it makes them look desperate to trade him.

Drez
01-24-2013, 05:51 PM
the jets really screwed themselves by letting everyone know he was available,,it makes them look desperate to trade him.Nah. It just lets people know that the Jets will actually entertain a trade. I'm sure most GMs would just assume that he wasn't available (or only at a ridiculous price).

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 07:52 PM
Eli for Tebow and Revis, and we save money! Huzzah!

Drystt
01-24-2013, 09:56 PM
We should make a move because it might make "huge media news"? I think that you have mistaken this board for the Jets message board.

Please reread my post slowly so it can be comprehended easier. I said it would make huge media news. Not the reason why the Giants should trade for him, however as a reaction to the splash in free agency pick ups.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-24-2013, 10:47 PM
Nah. It just lets people know that the Jets will actually entertain a trade. I'm sure most GMs would just assume that he wasn't available (or only at a ridiculous price).

nah? by telling everybody publicly that they are entertaining trading him they sent the message that they no longer want him. they should have privately phoned teams and then if it got out it got out. his contract is up next year, and they won't resign him, and even if they could trade him he could blow it up by demanding a contract extension or walk in FA next year. the leverage is gone.. if the jets call now I say I'll give you a fourth..maybe a 3rd or lose him to FA and get nothing.

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:02 PM
What would happen if somebody like the Eagles, or Redskins traded for him? Would you guys be comfortable with facing this guy 2 times a year? Remember when Samuel was a "product of the pat's system" he killed us everytime we met him. Just wondering because I wouldn't want Nicks or Cruz to be locked up on this guy twice a year.

Drez
01-24-2013, 11:05 PM
What would happen if somebody like the Eagles, or Redskins traded for him? Would you guys be comfortable with facing this guy 2 times a year? Remember when Samuel was a "product of the pat's system" he killed us everytime we met him. Just wondering because I wouldn't want Nicks or Cruz to be locked up on this guy twice a year.Yes, I would feel comfortable. In fact, I'd be happy, as signing him means that they were only able to sign one excellent player as opposed to two or three very good players. I'm sure you freaked out in '11 when Philly went on a FA spending spree. How'd that work out for them?

ShakeandBake
01-24-2013, 11:11 PM
Eli for Tebow and Revis, and we save money! Huzzah!

These threads came a lot earlier this year than I expected, usually the guys who want to trade our whole draft away don't come around till april it seems

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:30 PM
Yes, I would feel comfortable. In fact, I'd be happy, as signing him means that they were only able to sign one excellent player as opposed to two or three very good players. I'm sure you freaked out in '11 when Philly went on a FA spending spree. How'd that work out for them?
No I didn't, I thought it was foolish and didn't think Asmougah (sp) would fit very well, Jenkins also, and them signing Vick to that contract and Jackson also was funny.

I would be afraid if they traded for Revis though, I think he'd kill us worse than Samuel did. Reese totally blew the play evaluation on that one.

LoveRack
01-25-2013, 12:19 AM
nandi asumawha..... but with a bad knee,, no thx

gmen0820
01-25-2013, 12:24 AM
nandi asumawhaWow, you "Dahmer"-ed that. Nnamdi Asomugha.

BigJ
01-25-2013, 02:19 AM
Not even the best corner on the Jets afterall!
What are you talking about?? I know at the moment he is coming off injury but he is the best to do it since he's been in the league. Don't even say that Cro is better then him

nhpgiantsfan
01-25-2013, 09:43 AM
Even if the Jet's were to trade Revis. There is no way in hell they would trade him to the Giants. They are dumb but not that dumb.

And by the way, we made the mistake of relying too hard on a CB coming off an ACL last year, and he didn't really cost us anything. Beat it Revis!!!

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 09:51 AM
Even if the Jet's were to trade Revis. There is no way in hell they would trade him to the Giants. They are dumb but not that dumb.

And by the way, we made the mistake of relying too hard on a CB coming off an ACL last year, and he didn't really cost us anything. Beat it Revis!!!
OK...I certainly don't think the Giants would have any interest in Revis, but putting that aside, why wouldn't they trade him out of the conference? Seems actually smart to me.

Roosevelt
01-25-2013, 10:05 AM
Best move for the Jets would be to trade him for a quarterback. Let's hope they don't work a deal for the Niners back-up.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 10:11 AM
OK...I certainly don't think the Giants would have any interest in Revis, but putting that aside, why wouldn't they trade him out of the conference? Seems actually smart to me.

I'm sure Revis would be fine with it, too, as he wouldn't need to move.

Best move for the Jets would be to trade him for a quarterback. Let's hope they don't work a deal for the Niners back-up.
Alex Smith will be a free agent, you have to think he'll be a target for them. He's nothing amazing but he'd be a clear improvement over Sanchez.


I was thinking Patriots for a package involving Ryan Mallett... Big money for them, though, and the Jets wouldn't want to trade within the division. Still, it'd be a Patriots move.

Drez
01-25-2013, 10:14 AM
No I didn't, I thought it was foolish and didn't think Asmougah (sp) would fit very well, Jenkins also, and them signing Vick to that contract and Jackson also was funny.

I would be afraid if they traded for Revis though, I think he'd kill us worse than Samuel did. Reese totally blew the play evaluation on that one.
But, he's only one player. A player that wants a 4 year contract with $60m guaranteed. Great, let one of our rivals sign him. Sure, they improved in one area, but they aren't going to be able to improve in several others for it.

Bottom line is that he's only one player.

Redeyejedi
01-25-2013, 10:17 AM
What would happen if somebody like the Eagles, or Redskins traded for him? Would you guys be comfortable with facing this guy 2 times a year? Remember when Samuel was a "product of the pat's system" he killed us everytime we met him. Just wondering because I wouldn't want Nicks or Cruz to be locked up on this guy twice a year.Fine with me let them trade 5 starters for1 player. Its going to cost 2 High draft picks plus the money he will get u could get 2 very good starters or 3 solid 1's from it.

Drez
01-25-2013, 10:18 AM
I'm sure Revis would be fine with it, too, as he wouldn't need to move.

Alex Smith will be a free agent, you have to think he'll be a target for them. He's nothing amazing but he'd be a clear improvement over Sanchez.


I was thinking Patriots for a package involving Ryan Mallett... Big money for them, though, and the Jets wouldn't want to trade within the division. Still, it'd be a Patriots move.Smith still has two more years on his contract. Sanchez and Smith are virtually the same QB. He'd be an improvement, but not by much.

njg85m
01-25-2013, 10:18 AM
He may be the best CB in football, but he is absolutely toxic. I would not want him.

nhpgiantsfan
01-25-2013, 10:19 AM
OK...I certainly don't think the Giants would have any interest in Revis, but putting that aside, why wouldn't they trade him out of the conference? Seems actually smart to me.

Yes absolutely smart. Just not to the Giants. That would be PR suicide. Trade their best player to big brother? That would be like the Mets trading David Wright to the Yankees. The fans would go bananas.

njg85m
01-25-2013, 10:20 AM
Smith still has two more years on his contract. Sanchez and Smith are virtually the same QB. He'd be an improvement, but not by much.

I've been saying this for so long. I'm glad more people are realizing it.

People seem to forget how good or bad game manager QB's can look depending on the team around them. "WE WANT CARR", need I say more?

2010 Mark Sanchez essentially = 2012 Alex Smith while 2010 Alex Smith = 2012 Mark Sanchez.

Drez
01-25-2013, 10:22 AM
Fine with me let them trade 5 starters for1 player. Its going to cost 2 High draft picks plus the money he will get u could get 2 very good starters or 3 solid 1's from it.Yeah. Granted, I don't think the Jets will be able to get more than a 1 or a 2 and a 4 for him coming off the ACL (and that he only has 1 year left on his contract), but it still remains that he want franchise QB money.

He wants $60m guaranteed, probably on a 4 year deal. The bonus money alone averages to $15m a year, so after adding in base salary you're probably looking at $17m-$20m a year averaged out. The way I look at it is that only QBs impact the game enough to warrant that much money.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 10:23 AM
Yes absolutely smart. Just not to the Giants. That would be PR suicide. Trade their best player to big brother? That would be like the Mets trading David Wright to the Yankees. The fans would go bananas.
Again...I just don't get this.
"PR" doesn't win football games. NFL teams have to rise above this stuff and do whats right for the team. If they think that trading Revis (due to his contract situation) is the right thing foe the team, then they should trade him if they can. Its MUCH better to trade him to a team that they play once every 4 years than within the conference or division.

Some of you guys care too much about this Jets/Giants thing. We share a stadium and that's about it. There is a business relationship as a product, but other than that we don't really have anything to do with each other football-wise.

Drez
01-25-2013, 10:24 AM
I've been saying this for so long. I'm glad more people are realizing it.

People seem to forget how good or bad game manager QB's can look depending on the team around them. "WE WANT CARR", need I say more?

2010 Mark Sanchez essentially = 2012 Alex Smith while 2010 Alex Smith = 2012 Mark Sanchez.
Smith is a little better. He's more mobile and over all is more judicious with the ball, but he isn't a whole lot better. I'd say they're in the same tier of QBs, Smith is at the top of that tier, Sanchez at the bottom.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 10:24 AM
Smith still has two more years on his contract. Sanchez and Smith are virtually the same QB. He'd be an improvement, but not by much.
True, but I can't see the Niners paying their backup $9 million. If they can't find a trade suitor, Smith will have to be released.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 10:26 AM
I've been saying this for so long. I'm glad more people are realizing it.

People seem to forget how good or bad game manager QB's can look depending on the team around them. "WE WANT CARR", need I say more?

2010 Mark Sanchez essentially = 2012 Alex Smith while 2010 Alex Smith = 2012 Mark Sanchez.
Alex Smith is a MUCH better player than Mark Sanchez. He protects the ball very well, and is highly mobile. He's also shown that he can make big plays in huge moments, Ala the Saints playoff game last season.

AllHailEli
01-25-2013, 10:27 AM
Look, everyone puts down Revis and he continues to embarrass every wide receiver that comes his way! I would trade the WHOLE Giants secondary for Revis, and draft a bunch of rookies to fill in the rest of the secondary. Jets will never get it right....

Drez
01-25-2013, 10:29 AM
True, but I can't see the Niners paying their backup $9 million. If they can't find a trade suitor, Smith will have to be released.It'll have to be soon, though. His 2013 salary is guaranteed April 1. They'll have to eat about $4-$5m in bonus money though.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 10:30 AM
Look, everyone puts down Revis and he continues to embarrass every wide receiver that comes his way! I would trade the WHOLE Giants secondary for Revis, and draft a bunch of rookies to fill in the rest of the secondary. Jets will never get it right....
ACL injuries effect corners much more than any other position. The strain on your knees when you are a press corner and pure cover guy like Revis is huge. He was certainly great before the injury and a true shut down corner, but its a huge risk to trade a lot of value for him.
I would see your point if he didn't go down with that knee, but he did. And that changes everything.

You watch...if they trade him it will be for no more than a 2nd round pick.

Drez
01-25-2013, 10:32 AM
Look, everyone puts down Revis and he continues to embarrass every wide receiver that comes his way! I would trade the WHOLE Giants secondary for Revis, and draft a bunch of rookies to fill in the rest of the secondary. Jets will never get it right....
Who is saying that Revis isn't a great player (other than wondering how he'll come back from injury, which is a valid concern)? What is at debate here is whether or not Revis is worth the money he will ask for? Do you think it's wise to spend $15m+ a year on one player that isn't a QB? How many areas of need on our team could we improve with the cap space Revis would swallow? You also have to add in the picks that you'd have to give up to get him.

Bottom line is that he's only one player, and seeing as he's not a QB he won't impact the game enough to warrant the money he's asking for.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 10:32 AM
Alex Smith is a MUCH better player than Mark Sanchez. He protects the ball very well, and is highly mobile. He's also shown that he can make big plays in huge moments, Ala the Saints playoff game last season.
Smith has only been effective since his role was scaled back. Harbaugh disguised his (many) weaknesses.

Don't forget that Sanchez has also taken his team to conference championships. Him and Smith are equally adept at riding defenses.

AllHailEli
01-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Who is saying that Revis isn't a great player (other than wondering how he'll come back from injury, which is a valid concern)? What is at debate here is whether or not Revis is worth the money he will ask for? Do you think it's wise to spend $15m+ a year on one player that isn't a QB? How many areas of need on our team could we improve with the cap space Revis would swallow? You also have to add in the picks that you'd have to give up to get him.

Bottom line is that he's only one player, and seeing as he's not a QB he won't impact the game enough to warrant the money he's asking for.

That's the beauty of football and non guaranteed contracts. Take a risk in an area where we are deficient, roll the dice, and maybe he trains as hard as "All Day" AP!

nhpgiantsfan
01-25-2013, 10:38 AM
Again...I just don't get this.
"PR" doesn't win football games. NFL teams have to rise above this stuff and do whats right for the team. If they think that trading Revis (due to his contract situation) is the right thing foe the team, then they should trade him if they can. Its MUCH better to trade him to a team that they play once every 4 years than within the conference or division.

Some of you guys care too much about this Jets/Giants thing. We share a stadium and that's about it. There is a business relationship as a product, but other than that we don't really have anything to do with each other football-wise.

Everything you are saying is true. We don't have anything to do with each other. And as Giants fans it is easy for us to take this approach. But to Jets fans who have watched us have 5 SB appearances with 4 wins in the past 25 or so years, while they have never since been there since '69, it def matters. And the fans pay the bills. The last thing ownership wants to do is absolutely infuriate the fan base by sending their most beloved player, to the team that they share the city with, and already feel inferior to.

When is the last time the Jets and Giants ever made a trade, if ever? None that I can remember. It's certainly not going to start with the Jets best player.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 10:41 AM
Smith has only been effective since his role was scaled back. Harbaugh disguised his (many) weaknesses.

Don't forget that Sanchez has also taken his team to conference championships. Him and Smith are equally adept at riding defenses.
Smith drove for two TD's in the last 3 minutes of the playoff game vs. NO, including a long TD run down the left sidelines. Sanchez made very few if any real plays to get his team deep into the playoffs. Plus Sanchez has shown how soft and easily rattled he is, which is the kiss of death for an NFL QB.
Smith is the opposite. The kid is mentally tough and makes plays. He's extremely efficient as a passer and a good runner as well.
I'm not saying Smith is a great QB but he is a good QB. Sanchez is flat out terrible.

The Jets would be well served in acquiring Alex Smith.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 10:46 AM
Everything you are saying is true. We don't have anything to do with each other. And as Giants fans it is easy for us to take this approach. But to Jets fans who have watched us have 5 SB appearances with 4 wins in the past 25 or so years, while they have never since been there since '69, it def matters. And the fans pay the bills. The last thing ownership wants to do is absolutely infuriate the fan base by sending their most beloved player, to the team that they share the city with, and already feel inferior to.

When is the last time the Jets and Giants ever made a trade, if ever? None that I can remember. It's certainly not going to start with the Jets best player.

If the Giants make (which won't happen) the best offer for the interests of the Jets then they should make the trade. If they don't, they are hurting the football team.
What you are saying it seems is that it would be smart for the Jets to continue to act like the Jets, (actually care about superficial PR factors).
I'm saying it would be smart to trade the kid (if they want to trade him) to the team who can improve their team the most, especially if that team is in the other conference.

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 10:54 AM
No no trades. Giants can do more with better scheming. Giants also need help in other ereas real bad. I rather them get the O-line fixed. If we can run out the clock in a lead, it can be like the defense keeping the opposition's offense off the field.

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:01 AM
That's the beauty of football and non guaranteed contracts. Take a risk in an area where we are deficient, roll the dice, and maybe he trains as hard as "All Day" AP!
The thing is that Revis wants $60m GUARANTEED.

AllHailEli
01-25-2013, 11:08 AM
The thing is that Revis wants $60m GUARANTEED.

What he wants and what we offer are two different things. If the Jets want to offload him, we get the Jets a viable offer for next year and see what happens. Try before you buy! If he's good next year then maybe he is worth it and we tackle it in free agency the year after. If he is a dud, then we lost some guys in the secondary who were badly burned anyway and a draft pick. Reese picks winners in the late rounds anyway so giving up a first round is nothing....the Jets will pick a Blair Thomas with the pick anyway.

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 11:20 AM
Smith has only been effective since his role was scaled back. Harbaugh disguised his (many) weaknesses.

Don't forget that Sanchez has also taken his team to conference championships. Him and Smith are equally adept at riding defenses.

It is kind of amazing that when Alex Smith plays in a high percentage short and middle passing offense, it is Jim Harbaugh that “disguised” his “weaknesses” but when RG III plays in a dink and dunk high percentage offense put together by Mike Shannahan, RG III is an awesome player.

I am not claiming that this has been your stance but so many people make one point without the other.

As of right now, Colin Kapernick has taken San Francisco 49ers one game further than Alex Smith did last year. Now, I like Colin Kapernick and he is doing an awesome job but I think they would still be going to SuperBowl if Alex Smith were their starter.

Alex Smith is a damn good QB. Comparing him to Mark Sanchez is ridiculous.

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:24 AM
What he wants and what we offer are two different things. If the Jets want to offload him, we get the Jets a viable offer for next year and see what happens. Try before you buy! If he's good next year then maybe he is worth it and we tackle it in free agency the year after. If he is a dud, then we lost some guys in the secondary who were badly burned anyway and a draft pick. Reese picks winners in the late rounds anyway so giving up a first round is nothing....the Jets will pick a Blair Thomas with the pick anyway.Then we lose either a 1st or a couple other draft picks on a player that is only here for 1 year? No offense, but that's effin' stupid.

Also, you're waaaaaay off base thinking that Reese misses early. Out of the 13 players he's drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds only 3 you can haven't panned out, Ross (even though he played major roles in both SB titles, was still disappointing), Sintim, and Austin (the jury is still out, but the verdict isn't looking good).


2007) 1) Ross
2) Steve Smith

2008) 1) KP
2) TT

2009: 1) Nicks
2a) Sintim
2b) Beatty


2010: 1)JPP
2) Joseph


2011: 1) Prince
2) Austin.

2012: 1) Wilson
2) Randle

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:26 AM
It is kind of amazing that when Alex Smith plays in a high percentage short and middle passing offense, it is Jim Harbaugh that “disguised” his “weaknesses” but when RG III plays in a dink and dunk high percentage offense put together by Mike Shannahan, RG III is an awesome player.

I am not claiming that this has been your stance but so many people make one point without the other.

As of right now, Colin Kapernick has taken San Francisco 49ers one game further than Alex Smith did last year. Now, I like Colin Kapernick and he is doing an awesome job but I think they would still be going to SuperBowl if Alex Smith were their starter.

Alex Smith is a damn good QB.
Alex Smith is hardly above average. There's a difference between hiding the deficiencies of an 8 year veteran by a short passing game and that of a rookie still learning the NFL. If they are still doing that in RG III's 7th year, then you'll hear talk about his skill as a passer and QB.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 11:33 AM
Alex Smith is hardly above average. There's a difference between hiding the deficiencies of an 8 year veteran by a short passing game and that of a rookie still learning the NFL. If they are still doing that in RG III's 7th year, then you'll hear talk about his skill as a passer and QB.
You can argue as to whether or not Smith is average or above average. I think clearly he is at least somewhat above average. But regardless of that, there are probably 50 QB's in the NFL better than Sanchez, including Drew Stanton, who they traded away to make room for Tebow.
In other words, the Jets would be substantially better with Alex Smith. The difference between the two is huge.

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:35 AM
You can argue as to whether or not Smith is average or above average. I think clearly he is at least somewhat above average. But regardless of that, there are probably 50 QB's in the NFL better than Sanchez, including Drew Stanton, who they traded away to make room for Tebow.
In other words, the Jets would be substantially better with Alex Smith. The difference between the two is huge.
I don't think the difference is as large as you think. Smith is better, but I don't think by much. You have to remember, Smith had a MUCH better offensive team around him than Sanchez. I don't think Smith on the Jets is terribly more successful than Sanchez. I think you'll see some bad habits creep back in Smith's game.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 11:38 AM
It is kind of amazing that when Alex Smith plays in a high percentage short and middle passing offense, it is Jim Harbaugh that “disguised” his “weaknesses” but when RG III plays in a dink and dunk high percentage offense put together by Mike Shannahan, RG III is an awesome player.

I am not claiming that this has been your stance but so many people make one point without the other.

As of right now, Colin Kapernick has taken San Francisco 49ers one game further than Alex Smith did last year. Now, I like Colin Kapernick and he is doing an awesome job but I think they would still be going to SuperBowl if Alex Smith were their starter.

Alex Smith is a damn good QB.
I'm not saying he's bad - he isn't, I'm saying that he didn't really turn a corner until the game was taken out of his hands, and given to the run game and defense. With less pressure on him, his careful playing style became more effective.

Smith can run an offense, but he can't carry one.

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 11:41 AM
Alex Smith is hardly above average. There's a difference between hiding the deficiencies of an 8 year veteran by a short passing game and that of a rookie still learning the NFL. If they are still doing that in RG III's 7th year, then you'll hear talk about his skill as a passer and QB.

Alex Smith is way above average. Average QBs don’t do what he did in that playoff game against New Orleans Saints.

7th year? I will be highly surprised if RG III is relevant after 3 seasons. Yes, he is a great runner but unlike Mike Vick, he doesn’t have a cannon for an arm, he has a noodle arm.

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 11:45 AM
I'm not saying he's bad - he isn't, I'm saying that he didn't really turn a corner until the game was taken out of his hands, and given to the run game and defense. With less pressure on him, his careful playing style became more effective.

Smith can run an offense, but he can't carry one.

In all fairness to Alex Smith, the entire team was not doing very well before Jim Harbaugh took over.

He carried that offense and took over that game against New Orleans Saints in playoffs. The same New Orleans Saints that annhilated us earlier that year in regular season on MNF.

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 11:49 AM
I rather Giants trade down to get more players.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 11:50 AM
I'm not saying he's bad - he isn't, I'm saying that he didn't really turn a corner until the game was taken out of his hands, and given to the run game and defense. With less pressure on him, his careful playing style became more effective.

Smith can run an offense, but he can't carry one.
You are underrating Smith tremendously.
He's been a very accurate passer, calm under fire, he protects the ball and PROVED that he can make great individual plays in the clutch.
Again....He's no Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, but he's a good QB and his mobility would also be an asset to the Jets.

Sanchez on the other hand is just plain bad. He has regressed because he doesn't have the mental toughness that Smith has. Smith has been through a crapload of OC's, and HC's, and the kid still gets better.

AllHailEli
01-25-2013, 11:54 AM
Then we lose either a 1st or a couple other draft picks on a player that is only here for 1 year? No offense, but that's effin' stupid.

Also, you're waaaaaay off base thinking that Reese misses early. Out of the 13 players he's drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds only 3 you can haven't panned out, Ross (even though he played major roles in both SB titles, was still disappointing), Sintim, and Austin (the jury is still out, but the verdict isn't looking good).


2007) 1) Ross
2) Steve Smith

2008) 1) KP
2) TT

2009: 1) Nicks
2a) Sintim
2b) Beatty


2010: 1)JPP
2) Joseph


2011: 1) Prince
2) Austin.

2012: 1) Wilson
2) Randle

Here is my thought process
A) Reese picks winners. If he doesn't have a first round, he'll find it in the second. Don't give up later round picks, but give up dead weight that we currently have in the secondary
B) Let's not underestimate the power of a devastating corner (Deion, Mark Collins, Ronnie Lott, even Sehorn for few years).
C) Giving up a first round isn't going to break the bank here. This isn't Isiah Thomas with the Knicks giving up years of picks.
D) Remember the Jets put it out there. We aren't begging for a corner. We are in the position of power...why do you have us giving up later round picks, etc? If the Jets say no, we move on--plain and simple.
E) The conversation is probably moot (though entertaining)...,Jets would never trade Revis (even an ACL Revis) to either the Pats or Giants. If we do well with him, the Press would be too bad for them, and we all know Press is the one thing that the Jets do put some effort into :-) .

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 11:56 AM
You are underrating Smith tremendously.
He's been a very accurate passer, calm under fire, he protects the ball and PROVED that he can make great individual plays in the clutch.
Again....He's no Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, but he's a good QB and his mobility would also be an asset to the Jets.

Sanchez on the other hand is just plain bad. He has regressed because he doesn't have the mental toughness that Smith has. Smith has been through a crapload of OC's, and HC's, and the kid still gets better.

That is the exact same thing that impresses me so much about Alex Smith. He has been through so many changes and he continues to improve and the guy is cool under pressure. He would be a great asset to NY Jets but I am not so sure that he would agree to play for that circus team.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:07 PM
You are underrating Smith tremendously.
He's been a very accurate passer, calm under fire, he protects the ball and PROVED that he can make great individual plays in the clutch.
Again....He's no Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, but he's a good QB and his mobility would also be an asset to the Jets.

Sanchez on the other hand is just plain bad. He has regressed because he doesn't have the mental toughness that Smith has. Smith has been through a crapload of OC's, and HC's, and the kid still gets better.
Smith is fine, he's just... middling. If 14 touchdowns and 5 interceptions is what you want from a quarterback, then fine, take him. You just better make sure the rest of your team is sound because you'll be going nowhere if it isn't.


Yes, I think we can all agree that Sanchez is comparable to chewing gum you find stuck to the underside of a bus stop bench.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 12:13 PM
Smith is fine, he's just... middling. If 14 touchdowns and 5 interceptions is what you want from a quarterback, then fine, take him. You just better make sure the rest of your team is sound because you'll be going nowhere if it isn't.


Yes, I think we can all agree that Sanchez is comparable to chewing gum you find stuck to the underside of a bus stop bench.
In a little over 8 games. His numbers extend out to about 25 TD's and 9 Int's. (He actually had 13 TD's) And he had a 70% completion %.
That's pretty damned good actually. Better than "you know who".

BlueReign
01-25-2013, 12:18 PM
Alex Smith is an accurate passer. He won't win you a game very often,but he will almost never lose a game for you. West Coast offense fits him perfectly. When he's in that offense, he is above average,when you want him to throw the ball downfield, he struggles. You've also got to account for the fact that this kid has been through multiple coordinators and was never really given a chance to settle down and get comfortable (minus the past year and a half, and we saw what he did with that). With that being said, people are calling him below average because of his early years when the coaching staffs were in constant flux and these preconceived notions make it hard for many to realize how impressive he has been under Harbaugh.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:25 PM
In a little over 8 games. His numbers extend out to about 25 TD's and 9 Int's. (He actually had 13 TD's) And he had a 70% completion %.
That's pretty damned good actually. Better than "you know who".
Short, high percentage passes - Harbaugh catering to Smith's strengths. He took a back seat and was allowed to pick his spots. He must've averaged around, what 20 passes and 200 yards per game? Adequate, but not really ideal for most teams' configurations. Admittedly, he did hit paydirt with more regularity this season. Good for him.


Wow, how'd this turn into an Alex Smith discussion?

Roosevelt
01-25-2013, 12:54 PM
It is kind of amazing that when Alex Smith plays in a high percentage short and middle passing offense, it is Jim Harbaugh that “disguised” his “weaknesses” but when RG III plays in a dink and dunk high percentage offense put together by Mike Shannahan, RG III is an awesome player.

I am not claiming that this has been your stance but so many people make one point without the other.

As of right now, Colin Kapernick has taken San Francisco 49ers one game further than Alex Smith did last year. Now, I like Colin Kapernick and he is doing an awesome job but I think they would still be going to SuperBowl if Alex Smith were their starter.

Alex Smith is a damn good QB. Comparing him to Mark Sanchez is ridiculous.

I have to agree. I can't see anyone comparing Smith to Sanchez right now. Unlike Smith, Sanchez is a broken QB.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 12:56 PM
Short, high percentage passes - Harbaugh catering to Smith's strengths. He took a back seat and was allowed to pick his spots. He must've averaged around, what 20 passes and 200 yards per game? Adequate, but not really ideal for most teams' configurations. Admittedly, he did hit paydirt with more regularity this season. Good for him.


Wow, how'd this turn into an Alex Smith discussion?
Actually...no. He averaged a little over 26 attempt/game. And 208 yards/game. He averaged 1.5 TD's game and had a 70% comp. %. With a average to below average WR corps. Plus he ran for yards as well.
He's actually a pretty good QB.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 01:17 PM
Actually...no. He averaged a little over 26 attempt/game. And 208 yards/game. He averaged 1.5 TD's game and had a 70% comp. %. With a average to below average WR corps. Plus he ran for yards as well.
He's actually a pretty good QB.
I can't tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. I guessed "around 20/200"; the actual numbers are 26/208. I say "middling," you say "1.5 TDs per game".

What is the argument here?


And why do you keep telling me he's a good QB? Please show me where I said he wasn't.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 01:58 PM
I can't tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. I guessed "around 20/200"; the actual numbers are 26/208. I say "middling," you say "1.5 TDs per game".

What is the argument here?


And why do you keep telling me he's a good QB? Please show me where I said he wasn't.
Well it was really njg85 who started with his claim that Sanchez and Smith are equal. You kind of picked up the argument that Smith was average. Your arguments are downplaying Smith as a QB.
At least that's the way it seemed to me.

TheEnigma
01-25-2013, 02:13 PM
Alex Smith is an accurate passer. He won't win you a game very often,but he will almost never lose a game for you. West Coast offense fits him perfectly. When he's in that offense, he is above average,when you want him to throw the ball downfield, he struggles. You've also got to account for the fact that this kid has been through multiple coordinators and was never really given a chance to settle down and get comfortable (minus the past year and a half, and we saw what he did with that). With that being said, people are calling him below average because of his early years when the coaching staffs were in constant flux and these preconceived notions make it hard for many to realize how impressive he has been under Harbaugh.

You bring up some really good points but the fact so many QBs have flourished under Harbaugh (Luck, Smith, and now Kaepernick) would lead one to believe that the guy is just really good in putting his QB in the best situations for his skillset. Luck was given more freedom with reads and making risky throws at Stanford which really says it all for me. Maybe he was messed up with all of these coordinators but a #1 overall draft pick is supposed to rise above such issues. He would be treated in a better light if he was a later round selection.

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 03:36 PM
Well it was really njg85 who started with his claim that Sanchez and Smith are equal. You kind of picked up the argument that Smith was average. Your arguments are downplaying Smith as a QB.
At least that's the way it seemed to me.

MS criticizing a poster that downplays a QB’s accomplishments? Never. lol........

BlueReign
01-25-2013, 03:58 PM
You bring up some really good points but the fact so many QBs have flourished under Harbaugh (Luck, Smith, and now Kaepernick) would lead one to believe that the guy is just really good in putting his QB in the best situations for his skillset. Luck was given more freedom with reads and making risky throws at Stanford which really says it all for me. Maybe he was messed up with all of these coordinators but a #1 overall draft pick is supposed to rise above such issues. He would be treated in a better light if he was a later round selection.
Oh without a doubt being selected #1 brings a lot of pressure, and I can see where you are coming from with Harbaugh putting his players in good situations because the guy may be a jerk off, but he is a hell of a coach. Either way Smith is out the door this off season and I believe that the Jets should kick the tires on Smith since they picked up Marty.

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 04:15 PM
Oh without a doubt being selected #1 brings a lot of pressure, and I can see where you are coming from with Harbaugh putting his players in good situations because the guy may be a jerk off, but he is a hell of a coach. Either way Smith is out the door this off season and I believe that the Jets should kick the tires on Smith since they picked up Marty.

I am sure that signing Alex Smith will be high on their list of priorities but I doubt that he goes there. I see Alex Smith going to either Arizona or Kansas City. NY Jets will probably sign Mike Vick.

njg85m
01-27-2013, 02:46 PM
ACL injuries effect corners much more than any other position. The strain on your knees when you are a press corner and pure cover guy like Revis is huge. He was certainly great before the injury and a true shut down corner, but its a huge risk to trade a lot of value for him.
I would see your point if he didn't go down with that knee, but he did. And that changes everything.

You watch...if they trade him it will be for no more than a 2nd round pick.

Smith is a little bit better, but not much IMO.

Sanchez proved he could make big plays when he had a solid supporting cast around him. Let's not forget some of those big plays he made late in games over the 2010 season that were the difference between L's and W's. Key words being: Supporting cast. Look back at the same period when Sanchez was making those plays, Alex Smith had no one protecting him and he looked just as bad as Sanchez did this season.

I do agree that Smith is better, but I think if you had him under center for the Jets this year instead of Sanchez -- he would have looked almost as bad.

Game managers are a product of their environment.

jomo
01-27-2013, 02:57 PM
No

RoanokeFan
01-27-2013, 03:46 PM
No

We need to find you some 1 letter answers now :D

jomo
01-27-2013, 03:48 PM
We need to find you some 1 letter answers now :DK

RoanokeFan
01-27-2013, 03:49 PM
Here's a reason Revis won't be a Giant

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4155/darrelle-revis

RoanokeFan
01-27-2013, 03:49 PM
K :cool:

I like a good challenge and thanks for the nice set up RF.

0 = No

jomo
01-27-2013, 04:20 PM
0 = NoDuly noted for my future activity here. I am all about getting the job done with no extraneous key strokes...............at least for today lol.