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JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 08:35 PM
Too bad we aren't looking for a defensive coordinator because Spags was fired by the Saints.

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 08:38 PM
Too bad we aren't looking for a defensive coordinator because Spags was fired by the Saints.
Everyone loves what Spags did for us, but you can't go back.
The NFL is changing at a feverish pace and I'm not sure his scheme works as well in today's NFL. Too many mobile QB's.

AllHailEli
01-24-2013, 08:41 PM
How could it have all gone so wrong for him after the Giants? I'd say this is one personnel the fans did not ask to be fired which is quite rare here.

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 08:42 PM
I'm starting to think the players made the coach

ozzie0075
01-24-2013, 08:44 PM
I'm starting to think the players made the coach

I agree here. I'm not convinced that Spags would do any better than Fewell. And Fewell actually has more experience as a defensive play caller.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 08:46 PM
I'm starting to think the players made the coach If that was true why did our defense suck so bad after Sheridan took over?

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 08:50 PM
I would love to see what he could do with JPP.

Cloud57
01-24-2013, 08:52 PM
Spags is way better than Fewell but I don't think he's that great as fans make him out to be.

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 08:55 PM
If that was true why did our defense suck so bad after Sheridan took over?

We're talking Spags whose defense here was superb and he's since failed at his HC debut and now as a DC.

poppa smurph
01-24-2013, 08:55 PM
I don't think that Spags has been involved the best situations since leaving the Giants.
More going against him then with him sort of thing.

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 08:55 PM
If Jim Herrman left we could have entertained the though of him as a LBer coach. Jeez, that's got to be tough for him though; going down a notch on the coaching totem pole two years in a row.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 08:56 PM
Spags is way better than Fewell but I don't think he's that great as fans make him out to be.He's not the greatest defensive coordinator of all time, but I would much rather have him then Fewell

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 08:57 PM
If Jim Herrman left we could have entertained the though of him as a LBer coach. Jeez, that's got to be tough for him though; going down a notch on the coaching totem pole two years in a row.

It will be interesting to see if anyone picks him up.

poppa smurph
01-24-2013, 08:57 PM
We're talking Spags whose defense here was superb and he's since failed at his HC debut and now as a DC.I remember thinking that they might've run him out of St. Lou a little too soon.
Was it just 2 seasons or 3?

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 08:58 PM
It will be interesting to see if anyone picks him up.Hard to imagine what anyone would pick him up for. I doubt as a DC, but I still think he's an excellent coach and deserves a second shot as a DC and eventually HC.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 08:59 PM
I don't think that Spags has been involved the best situations since leaving the Giants.More going against him then with him sort of thing.+1

poppa smurph
01-24-2013, 09:00 PM
If Jim Herrman left we could have entertained the though of him as a LBer coach. Jeez, that's got to be tough for him though; going down a notch on the coaching totem pole two years in a row.Wonder if he moves to the College ranks?

Mr. G-Man
01-24-2013, 09:00 PM
spags was aggressive. every other DC we've had in the past 10 years has been a soft zone calling little girl.

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 09:01 PM
Hard to imagine what anyone would pick him up for. I doubt as a DC, but I still think he's an excellent coach and deserves a second shot as a DC and eventually HC.

It certainly has not been a resume building few years

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 09:02 PM
spags was aggressive. every other DC we've had in the past 10 years has been a soft zone calling little girl.

And yet he's been fired twice since leaving.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 09:04 PM
And yet he's been fired twice since leaving.He got fired because Sean Payton wants to go to 3-4 defense.

Duke_45
01-24-2013, 09:05 PM
Please, please NY Giants...bring Spags back!!!!!

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 09:06 PM
Wonder if he moves to the College ranks?Interesting, never thought of that. Could be a possibility, especially with the way the NFL has gone to the college ranks to find HCs.

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 09:08 PM
He got fired because Sean Payton wants to go to 3-4 defense.Makes sense, but I doubt that they'd be switching to a 3-4 had they been a solid defense through the year. They were pitiful, to be fair.

The transition makes sense for the Saints though. Cam Jordan, and Sedrick Ellis are ideal as 3-4 DL. Martez Wilson has shown nice ability off the edge as well to be a 34 OLB.

AllHailEli
01-24-2013, 09:09 PM
What are the chances he'll end up with the Jets? Or did the Jets ever figure out their defensive coach?

giantsfan420
01-24-2013, 09:09 PM
wouldnt suprise me if he got another DC job. that performance from our D in sb 42 was like all time. I think we as fans prob look at him in a different light than HCs and GMs/owners

nhpgiantsfan
01-24-2013, 09:19 PM
And yet he's been fired twice since leaving.

Can't hold last year against him. He was caught in the middle of a horrible situation.

Duke_45
01-24-2013, 09:20 PM
Perry is a guy who likes to run the D from upstairs, but Tom wants him on the field. Spags is a guy who loves to be down on the field with his players. Come on, it should be a no brainer to bring Spags back to NY!

gmen0820
01-24-2013, 09:22 PM
What are the chances he'll end up with the Jets? Or did the Jets ever figure out their defensive coach?Yup, they filled the position.

GameTime
01-24-2013, 09:25 PM
dont why some still hang on tis guys jock like he is the be all and end all.
He had a good two years with the Giants and none since. If he came to the Giants I wouldnt be upset but I would be shouting from the moutain tops with joy either.

nhpgiantsfan
01-24-2013, 09:27 PM
But we can ship PF out the season after winning the Super Bowl?

How do you not take three subpar seasons into acount?

Read through the thread, I never said I wanted him back, I just said ya can't hold last year against Spags. And just because he wasn't successful as a head coach doesnt mean he forgot how to be a good DC.

Mr. G-Man
01-24-2013, 09:30 PM
tell me why fewell gets aggressive for one game where we end up dominating and look like the scariest defense. and then goes right back to being soft for the next 4 games and wonders why we suck?

RoanokeFan
01-24-2013, 09:30 PM
Read through the thread, I never said I wanted him back, I just said ya can't hold last year against Spags. And just because he wasn't successful as a head coach doesnt mean he forgot how to be a good DC.

His record since leaving here would suggest otherwise though. That's what teams are going to look at. He had no problem getting a DC job after failing at HC. Now he's added another failure. It may not keep teams from sniffing around, but it will be a consideration.

egyptian420
01-24-2013, 09:37 PM
I seen the news and knew when I came here there would be a pile of threads about this, so far just one....I'm impressed

Flip Empty
01-24-2013, 09:47 PM
I seen the news and knew when I came here there would be a pile of threads about this, so far just one....I'm impressed
I think a couple got moved to General Sports.

egyptian420
01-24-2013, 09:56 PM
I think a couple got moved to General Sports.sigh.... Can't say I'm surprised one bit....If we won another SB with fewel and didn't make the playoffs the year after they'd still want him gone.

The expectation around here is if you don't win a Superbowl in any given year, you're gone.

tonyt830
01-24-2013, 09:59 PM
Read through the thread, I never said I wanted him back, I just said ya can't hold last year against Spags. And just because he wasn't successful as a head coach doesnt mean he forgot how to be a good DC.No problem man, I never said that you wanted him back. New Orleans was a mess this past year, and it probably would have taken him more time to get their D respectable. They did not have the talent to work with like the Giants had in Spags first year with the Giants

nycisgreat
01-24-2013, 10:10 PM
Everyone loves what Spags did for us, but you can't go back.
The NFL is changing at a feverish pace and I'm not sure his scheme works as well in today's NFL. Too many mobile QB's.

Oh yes we can when our current DC is statistically the worst in Giants history. The guy is worse than Bill Sheridan, and I never thought someone else would ever top him.

Duke_45
01-24-2013, 10:13 PM
don't know why some still hang on this guys jock like he is the be all and end all.
He had a good two years with the Giants and none since. If he came to the Giants I wouldn't be upset but I would be shouting from the mountain tops with joy either.

And Perry has you shouting from the mountaintops...did you forgot how low we finished in overall defense last year? We really could use Spags to infuse the defense once again.

miked1958
01-24-2013, 10:32 PM
I remember thinking that they might've run him out of St. Lou a little too soon.Was it just 2 seasons or 3?he was there for 3 seasons posting a 10-38 mark.

miked1958
01-24-2013, 10:33 PM
Too bad we aren't looking for a defensive coordinator because Spags was fired by the Saints.fewell was bad but his defense didnt give up over 7000 yards and over 450 points like Spags D did

miked1958
01-24-2013, 10:38 PM
In fact the giants gave up 110 less points and almost 1000 less yards...and although that's a far cry from what the top teams posted it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to switch back. Someone made a good point. To many mobile QBs

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-24-2013, 10:45 PM
In fact the giants gave up 110 less points and almost 1000 less yards...and although that's a far cry from what the top teams posted it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to switch back. Someone made a good point. To many mobile QBsToo many mobile quarterbacks? Please explain

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 10:52 PM
I don't know how people can be against bringing Spags back? What has Fewell done to warrant his job safe?

giantcarll
01-24-2013, 10:56 PM
How bout if we brought him in to coach our D-Line

Drystt
01-24-2013, 10:59 PM
I'm starting to think the players made the coach

Indeed. I was expecting New Orleans to be a dominating defense, obviously that didn't work out well. However, Saint's don't have the talent Spags coached during 07 season compared to last year.

Buddy333
01-24-2013, 11:05 PM
Too bad we aren't looking for a defensive coordinator because Spags was fired by the Saints.Yeah because his defense was worse than the Giants and he has now been fired two times since he was the DC here. Yeah hire him.

Buddy333
01-24-2013, 11:08 PM
Stop looking at yards. Points are the only stat that counts. The league is built for offense. Look at all the record being broken every year.

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:15 PM
In St Louis he had far worse defensive players than the Giants ever had and posted similar numbers, and in one year I think he did even better.
Saints defense has been declining, they were in the bottom 10 in 2011 I think in yards per game.. not sure but everybody knew the players on the D were the problem.

Redeyejedi
01-24-2013, 11:16 PM
Oh yes we can when our current DC is statistically the worst in Giants history. The guy is worse than Bill Sheridan, and I never thought someone else would ever top him. 12th in Points is not the worst statistical season ever sorry it isnt

Redeyejedi
01-24-2013, 11:17 PM
I don't know how people can be against bringing Spags back? What has Fewell done to warrant his job safe? What has Spags done since leaving NY that shows he should have a job

C1010
01-24-2013, 11:18 PM
I don't think that Spags has been involved the best situations since leaving the Giants.
More going against him then with him sort of thing.

I have to agree with this.

Redeyejedi
01-24-2013, 11:21 PM
Stop looking at yards. Points are the only stat that counts. The league is built for offense. Look at all the record being broken every year. I could care less about yards. They throw out forcing Turnovers like thats a bad thing.

Flip Empty
01-24-2013, 11:24 PM
I don't know how people can be against bringing Spags back? What has Fewell done to warrant his job safe?
Helped win a Super Bowl?

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 11:28 PM
Too many mobile quarterbacks? Please explain
With mobile QB's, its very dangerous to play a lot of press coverage. Zone defenses have more defenders facing, and reacting to the QB. Press cover guys are rarely facing the QB and HUGE runs can come from that.
I'm afraid that Spags system is especially vulnerable to that.

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:31 PM
[QUOTE=Flip Empty;670139]Helped win a Super Bowl?[/QUOTE

I think he hurt our chances a lot more than "helped". How has he utilized our players? Every year since Spags we've been complaining how some DC has been trying to force a scheme that doesn't work.

@Redeye - His former success utilizing our players to their full potential and crafting a very good defense has showed me more than enough to replace what we have. He hasn't had the tools that he had in NY and I think he's done a good job considering the skill set of the players he had on his former teams.

Flip Empty
01-24-2013, 11:34 PM
I think he hurt our chances a lot more than "helped". How has he utilized our players? Every year since Spags we've been complaining how some DC has been trying to force a scheme that doesn't work.

Did his unit not shut down the Falcons and Packers during the 2012 playoffs? Did his unit not hold the Patriots to 17 points?

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:34 PM
With mobile QB's, its very dangerous to play a lot of press coverage. Zone defenses have more defenders facing, and reacting to the QB. Press cover guys are rarely facing the QB and HUGE runs can come from that.
I'm afraid that Spags system is especially vulnerable to that.

I think having a decent linebacker on this team will solve any troubles we've had with mobile quarterbacks.

I Bleed Blue 56
01-24-2013, 11:35 PM
Hell I would bring him to coach the D-line and if Perry screws up fire him and put Spags back. I know Nunn is there but hes below average at best. Putting J.P as a DT was and is a huge mistake.

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:38 PM
[QUOTE=GTGiantsFan;670145]
Did his unit not shut down the Falcons and Packers during the 2012 playoffs? Did his unit not hold the Patriots to 17 points?

The players simply played inspired, and a lot better. His scheme is shown not to work on a consistent basis, and it doesn't work for the giants.

His defense also gave up how many points to the Falcons, Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, Browns?

Morehead State
01-24-2013, 11:42 PM
[QUOTE=Flip Empty;670146]

The players simply played inspired, and a lot better. His scheme is shown not to work on a consistent basis, and it doesn't work for the giants.

His defense also gave up how many points to the Falcons, Ravens, Bengals, Bucs, Browns?
The scheme PF plays tends to work when the players play well and tends not to work when the players don't.
So maybe the answer is for the players to play well.

GTGiantsFan
01-24-2013, 11:51 PM
[QUOTE=GTGiantsFan;670150]
The scheme PF plays tends to work when the players play well and tends not to work when the players don't.
So maybe the answer is for the players to play well.

Or to use a scheme that gets the most out of his players consistently.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-25-2013, 12:22 AM
I don't dislike Fewell I just like Spags style of defense better.

JPP=BEASTMODE
01-25-2013, 12:28 AM
Yeah because his defense was worse than the Giants and he has now been fired two times since he was the DC here. Yeah hire him.Yeah and he had different players to

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:32 AM
I don't dislike Fewell I just like Spags style of defense better.

I think his style of play gets the most out of the Giants D and I think the Giants D will be happy to play for him, they were most comfortable with him I think.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:35 AM
Yeah and he had different players to
He'd be returning to different players as well. This isn't four years ago.

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:37 AM
He'd be returning to different players as well. This isn't four years ago.

Better DT's, Arguably the same DE's depending on what Ojomo and Tracy can give us, he could get something out of Webster, Prince is a great corner, and he'll have better Safeties.

All he'd have is worse linebackers which I hope we address this offseason.

GiantRoc
01-25-2013, 01:18 AM
I wouldnt mind seeing him come back. The D did go downhill after he left. At least he will fire up a blitz package now and then. Seemed to be unpredictable in his D play calling. Nothing wrong with keeping opposing O's unsure of what ws coming next. His last 2 jobs he went to orginizations in total disaray. I don't think his firing in NO was so much job performance as it was Payton wanting a restart totally under his control.

rEaS
01-25-2013, 01:20 AM
the people at nfl said it best.. in a passing league he had argueably the worst DEs and OLBs in the game.. how could he succeed? i'd take him back in a heartbeat.. he's at least earned the chance to get another shot at the job..

speedman
01-25-2013, 09:05 AM
Spag's aggressive defense fits our players better.

Redeyejedi
01-25-2013, 09:08 AM
I'm starting to think the players made the coachMany DC's would look good with that team. He had 3 DE's playing at an All Pro Level. Tuck was absolute Monster rushing the QB from inside. If the Giants last season had Tuck and Osi playing at that level this team would of won 12 games. Its why I think this Dline has to be rebuilt. The Giants won 2 Super Bowls with completely different Offenses they won on Defense with the same idea a Monster Dline.

TheAnalyst
01-25-2013, 09:11 AM
I'm starting to think the players made the coach

Lets look at the 2 coordinators sandwiching Spags... Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan. They could not do anything with the same players. Spags is legit. He was the HC for a horrible Rams team and was a bit over his head. In NO he has no playmakers and the team lost a bunch of players and the HC. He got a raw deal.

He is still a legit DC. I would drop our bottom 5 DC Fewell in half a second for Spags. Fewell is terrible. 31st in 2012, 28th in 2011.... Garbage.

TheAnalyst
01-25-2013, 09:13 AM
Many DC's would look good with that team. He had 3 DE's playing at an All Pro Level.

Than why couldnt Sheridan (Tuck Osi JPP) or Lewis (Tuck Osi Stray)?

Redeyejedi
01-25-2013, 09:14 AM
Better DT's, Arguably the same DE's depending on what Ojomo and Tracy can give us, he could get something out of Webster, Prince is a great corner, and he'll have better Safeties.

All he'd have is worse linebackers which I hope we address this offseason.Nowhere near the same DE's . A lot of u are still under the impression Justin Tuck and Osi Umenyoria are the same players, they arent .. Spags wouldnt win with how bad this Dline played last season. Justin Tuck was the best interior Pass Rusher in the NFL when Spags was here.

Redeyejedi
01-25-2013, 09:27 AM
Than why couldnt Sheridan (Tuck Osi JPP) or Lewis (Tuck Osi Stray)?

Sheridan didnt have JPP first off Justin Tuck played the whole season with a torn labrum after he was injured by that piece of human excrement Flozell Adams.

In 2006 Justin Tuck was in his 2nd year and got injured and missed 10 games. Osi Umenyoria missed 5. Strahan missed 7 Also that Defense gave up 22.6 ppg Spags the year that won the Superbowl gave up 21.9

sodbuster
01-25-2013, 10:20 AM
why would'nt spags do a good job back with giants..he changed his defence to fit the player he had..4 aces' kiwi to LB' made k.mitchell
look like a great player. he took roll players and made them good football players by adapting his defence to the players he had at the time just to get the best players onto the field. all this after they gave up 80 points in 2 games. he still got the players to buy in to what he was selling..

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 10:26 AM
This is what I have been hoping for ever since he left.
Are the NY Giants going to sit on their hands once again or are they going to go and get him back before somebody else does?
I'm sure he would take a lesser position if they are so set on Fewell as DC.
We need Spags back now!!!!!!!
Mr, Mara, Mr. Tisch, JR. Pleeeeeaaassssseeee bring back Spags!!!!!!!!

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 10:28 AM
BRING BACK SPAGS NOW!!!!!

Hooligans
01-25-2013, 10:30 AM
Too bad we aren't looking for a defensive coordinator because Spags was fired by the Saints.

Now that Spags is free the Giants might rethink their decision not to terminate the current DC.....the Giants would immediately improve on Defense if they brought in a qualified DC like Spags versus the clown they now have.

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 10:32 AM
Excerpt: "New York Giants' owner John Mara, in his first public comments following the 2012 season, said he's "very disappointed" that his team did not reach the playoffs.

"Obviously, we were very disappointed not being in the postseason," Mara said Thursday following a Super Bowl XLVIII news conference at City Hall. "I haven't quite gotten over that yet, particularly the back-to-back games in Atlanta and Baltimore.

MR. MARA, IF YOU ARE TRULY DISAPPOINTED, ESPECIALLY WITH THE ATLANTA AND BALTIMORE RESULTS, PROVE TO US THAT YOU MEAN WHAT YOU SAY AND BRING BACK SPAGS IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!

TCHOF
01-25-2013, 10:44 AM
Excerpt: "New York Giants' owner John Mara, in his first public comments following the 2012 season, said he's "very disappointed" that his team did not reach the playoffs.

"Obviously, we were very disappointed not being in the postseason," Mara said Thursday following a Super Bowl XLVIII news conference at City Hall. "I haven't quite gotten over that yet, particularly the back-to-back games in Atlanta and Baltimore.

MR. MARA, IF YOU ARE TRULY DISAPPOINTED, ESPECIALLY WITH THE ATLANTA AND BALTIMORE RESULTS, PROVE TO US THAT YOU MEAN WHAT YOU SAY AND BRING BACK SPAGS IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!


Why do you think that he was fired twice in the last 2 years?

BlueJayC
01-25-2013, 10:57 AM
Bring him back even if only as a defensive assistant or "consultant"........or else the Eagles might........that is reason enough.

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 11:03 AM
Bring him back even if only as a defensive assistant or "consultant"........or else the Eagles might........that is reason enough.


EXACTLY!!!!
LISTEN TO WIP 94.1. IT'S THE PHILADELPHIA SPORTS RADIO STATION. THEY ARE WETTING THEIR PANTS TO BRING HIM BACK.
NOT ONLY DO WE NEED HIM BACK, BUT WE CANNOT LET THESE DIRTBAGS SIGN HIM!!!!

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 11:14 AM
Looks like your shift button is jammed, you may need a new keyboard.

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 11:15 AM
Why do you think that he was fired twice in the last 2 years?

Not my problem if these other organizations don't know what they had.
Happens all the time in sports.
Do your research.

embeshAtYa
01-25-2013, 11:16 AM
Ahhh. He sucked. Couldn stop Mcnabb

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 11:16 AM
Looks like your shift button is jammed, you may need a new keyboard.

Not really my friend.
I've been wanting this guy back ever since he left.
Now is our opportunity.
We cannot procrastinate.

thomasjmarino
01-25-2013, 11:25 AM
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WERE UPSET AS I WAS WHEN SPAGS LEFT AND HAVE WANTED HIM BACK EVER SINCE, THIS IS OUR CHANCE. PLEASE SIGN THIS PETITION:

TO MR. JOHN MARA,

MR. MARA,

WE, THE UNDERSIGNED, ARE PETITIONING YOU AS THE OWNER OF THE NEW YORK GIANTS TO HIRE STEVE SPAGNUOLO AS PART OF YOUR FOOTBALL TEAMS DEFENSIVE STAFF. WE, THE FANS OF YOUR FOOTBALL TEAM, FEEL THAT HIRING THIS MAN WILL BRING YOUR TEAM BACK TO THE GLORY OF WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS ONCE AGAIN.

Thomas J. Marino

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:27 AM
Dear Tom,

No thanks.

John

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:32 AM
Bring him back even if only as a defensive assistant or "consultant"........or else the Eagles might........that is reason enough.

So he went from DC, to HC, to DC and now assistant? Would we be looking to sign a player with that type of record? Probably not.

Old Giant
01-25-2013, 11:33 AM
Dear Tom,

No thanks.

John

+1

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:33 AM
Not really my friend.
I've been wanting this guy back ever since he left.
Now is our opportunity.
We cannot procrastinate.

It's not going to happen

tdawg1413
01-25-2013, 11:36 AM
Spags is no better than Fewell. It was the players who made him look good during the Super Bowl run. He has been awful ever since. This is not a coincidence.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:36 AM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/01/25/new-york-giants-defensive-assistant-al-holcomb-interviews-with-carolina-panthers/

Excerpt: "The Carolina (http://www.giants101.com/tag/carolina/) Panthers have a new General Manager in Dave Gettleman (http://www.giants101.com/tag/dave-gettleman/), but their pilfering of the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Giants may have only just begun. The Charlotte Observer reports (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/24/3810865/rivera-eyes-giants-assistant.html) that the team met with Giants defensive assistant Al Holcomb (http://www.giants101.com/tag/al-holcomb/) on Thursday regarding their vacant linebackers coach position.

Holcomb, who joined the Giants in 2009 as their defensive quality control coach after interning with the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Jets in 2007 as part of the NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/)'s minority internship program, was promoted to defensive assistant to Perry Fewell (http://www.giants101.com/tag/perry-fewell/) in 2011 and helped the team to a Super Bowl XLVI victory.

Prior to entering the NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/), Holcomb was a defensive coach for several smaller Pennsylvania college teams, including Lafayette, Kutztown University and Bloomsburg, who played for the Division II National Championship in 2000." Read more...

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 11:37 AM
Save yourself the stress, the team is committed to Fewell.

barran21
01-25-2013, 11:38 AM
Save yourself the stress, the team is committed to Fewell.

Sad but true...

BlueJayC
01-25-2013, 11:40 AM
So he went form DC, to HC, to DC and now assistant? Would we be looking to sign a player with that type of record? Probably not.

Yes.....when a backup or veteran in his twilight years is better than the starter the Giants would......an upgrade is an upgrade no matter where it comes from.......

(Kurt Warner can be used as an example if we're making player personnel comparisons to coaches)

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:41 AM
Save yourself the stress, the team is committed to Fewell.

Can you imagine bringing Spags back after two failed adventures and we learn he isn't all that? This place would be erupting at Reese's incompetence.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:43 AM
Yes.....when a backup or veteran in his twilight years is better than the starter the Giants would......an upgrade is an upgrade no matter where it comes from.......

(Kurt Warner can be used as an example if we're making player personnel comparisons to coaches)

That's the question, is it an upgrade? For three years Spags has failed miserably.

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 11:52 AM
That's the question, is it an upgrade? For three years Spags has failed miserably.Was it his fault or the other teams he went to? A cook can't cook a delicious meal with rotten food. If a cook does cook a bad meal with fresh food then it is more his fault and did something wrong.

TCHOF
01-25-2013, 11:52 AM
Not my problem if these other organizations don't know what they had.
Happens all the time in sports.
Do your research.

Research on what?

Since you're the one demanding that we hire him, it seems to me that you should have done the research as to why he was fired twice in the last 2 years. The last firing was by a very good and respected HC by the way, who fired him after only one year.

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 11:54 AM
That's the question, is it an upgrade? For three years Spags has failed miserably.
He hardly did miserably.

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:55 AM
Spags is no better than Fewell. It was the players who made him look good during the Super Bowl run. He has been awful ever since. This is not a coincidence.We had a great defense in '08. We just got worn down at the end of the year.

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:56 AM
I think this is a fair question:

Art Stapleton ‏@art_stapleton (https://twitter.com/art_stapleton)
Clear this up for me: some #NYG (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NYG&src=hash) fans want Perry Fewell fired for his D giving up 6,134 yards in favor of Spags, whose D in NO gave up 7,042

Expand (https://twitter.com/art_stapleton/status/294818978549862402)

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RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 11:57 AM
He hardly did miserably.

At St. Louis he was 10 - 38 over three seasons and in NO he was 32nd.. Hardly glowing.

That's pretty bad

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 11:57 AM
Research on what?

Since you're the one demanding that we hire him, it seems to me that you should have done the research as to why he was fired twice in the last 2 years. The last firing was by a very good and respected HC by the way, who fired him after only one year.Even good coaches make mistakes.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 11:58 AM
He hardly did miserably.
Wasn't the NO defense this season rated the worst in NFL history?

We all love what Spags did for us, but there is a legitimate argument as to whether his scheme works in the new, quckly changing NFL.

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:59 AM
At St. Louis he was 10 - 38 and in NO he was 32nd.. Hardly glowing.I think you mean NO there, RF.

I'm taking those power naps again - RF

Drez
01-25-2013, 11:59 AM
Research on what?

Since you're the one demanding that we hire him, it seems to me that you should have done the research as to why he was fired twice in the last 2 years. The last firing was by a very good and respected HC by the way, who fired him after only one year.Payton never worked with him though.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:02 PM
Was it his fault or the other teams he went to? A cook can't cook a delicious meal with rotten food. If a cook does cook a bad meal with fresh food then it is more his fault and did something wrong.

He had three seasons at St.Louis to change the trend. 10 wins in three years is dismal.

Drez
01-25-2013, 12:04 PM
He had three seasons at St.Louis to change the trend. 10 wins in three years is dismal.Granted, the team was a hot mess before he took the job, but he still should have been able to do better.

I, however, do not take his HC results too much in consideration when evaluating him as a DC. There's plenty of guys that are good coordinators yet poor head coaches.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:04 PM
Even good coaches make mistakes.

And if Spags had replaced Coughlin, as many here wished, and we went 10 - 38 in three years, we'd be cheering?

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:06 PM
Can you imagine bringing Spags back after two failed adventures and we learn he isn't all that? This place would be erupting at Reese's incompetence.
I just don't get it. Anytime something goes wrong, fans look to the past. Passing game stalling? Bring back Manningham. Running game stalling? Bring back Jacobs.
The team doesn't share the same philosophy.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:06 PM
Granted, the team was a hot mess before he took the job, but he still should have been able to do better.

I, however, do not take his HC results too much in consideration when evaluating him as a DC. There's plenty of guys that are good coordinators yet poor head coaches.

Good point, so his next job was DC at NEW ORLEANS where they ranked 32nd. An established DC, not a noob.

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 12:06 PM
He had three seasons at St.Louis to change the trend. 10 wins in three years is dismal.Sometimes it takes longer than 3 years. We will see how well Fisher will do with coaching the Rams.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:08 PM
I just don't get it. Anytime something goes wrong, fans look to the past. Passing game stalling? Bring back Manningham. Running game stalling? Bring back Jacobs.
The team doesn't share the same philosophy.

True enough, we are a fickle bunch. We won a Super Bowl with Spags and we won a Super Bowl with Fewell. Fewell's still here.

Roosevelt
01-25-2013, 12:08 PM
I'm starting to think the players made the coach

I'd say it's both.

Obviously you must have talent, but you also need good coaching. Athleticism, size, vision, brains, and heart vary from player to player and it's up to the coach to get the most out of the each player and meld them into a team.

barran21
01-25-2013, 12:10 PM
Sometimes it takes longer than 3 years. We will see how well Fisher will do with coaching the Rams.

He sucks as a HC, under Spags they won 3 division games in 3 years, under Fisher they went 4-1-1..

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:10 PM
RF you aren't grasping he had far worse players at St. Louis than the Giants, and far worse players in NO than the Giants have. Are you really comparing the players of the Rams to the Giants? Come on now... relax, nobody's going to take your Fewell away lol :).

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:11 PM
Sometimes it takes longer than 3 years. We will see how well Fisher will do with coaching the Rams.

TC took the Jaguars from scratch and went to the AFC Championship game in year 2. THAT is a good coach.

Drez
01-25-2013, 12:11 PM
Sometimes it takes longer than 3 years. We will see how well Fisher will do with coaching the Rams.Fischer in one season has won 3 fewer games than Spags did in 3.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:11 PM
Sometimes it takes longer than 3 years. We will see how well Fisher will do with coaching the Rams.
7-8-1, coming off Spagnuolo's barnstorming 2-14.

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:12 PM
Wasn't the NO defense this season rated the worst in NFL history?

We all love what Spags did for us, but there is a legitimate argument as to whether his scheme works in the new, quckly changing NFL.
He didn't have the personell to be successful, you could of put any DC there and they wouldn't of done good. NO took the best on the market which was Spags to try to get something out of the slow and old D, not even Spags could.

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:13 PM
7-8-1, coming off Spagnuolo's barnstorming 2-14.
It takes more than a year or two for players to develop and play well. Who did the Rams have other than Jackson when Spags was there?

TCHOF
01-25-2013, 12:14 PM
Payton never worked with him though.

But he hired and fired him in one year. He obviously didn't like what he saw/heard.

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 12:15 PM
Fischer in one season has won 3 fewer games than Spags did in 3.And? I've seen something like that before things start going good and then boom problems start to come again and the coach is out like out Bill Parcells when he was with the Cowboys. You also have to look at Spags situation. His team had some injuries and you have to look at that. I know some teams have injuries and still win games but you have to look at the bench having talent and other teams don't have that.

Even so did the Rams also dropped their GM at the time Spags was with the Rams? He got the players.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:16 PM
RF you aren't grasping he had far worse players at St. Louis than the Giants, and far worse players in NO than the Giants have. Are you really comparing the players of the Rams to the Giants? Come on now... relax, nobody's going to take your Fewell away lol :).

I am grasping the only thing that matters, the record. Two teams with abysmal records.

We are talking about a former DC who helped us win a Super Bowl. We have a DC who helped us win a Super Bowl. And for those who simply say "bring him in anywhere on the defense" I would simply point to the Sanchez - Tebow circus across town. There is no room for Spags here this season.

For the record, he's not my Fewell. He's Reese's and Coughin's Fewell and that's good enough for me.

Rudyy
01-25-2013, 12:17 PM
Spags isn't coming back.

/thread

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 12:18 PM
7-8-1, coming off Spagnuolo's barnstorming 2-14.Wait, the Rams also got rid of the GM at the time I think. He got the man the players. Now if Spags isn't that good, then why he did well with the Giants and in 08 when Osi was out and Spags had only Tuck?

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:18 PM
He's a great DC if he has the personnel to carry out his scheme, case closed. We saw that when he helped get us the SB.

2007 D was far better than the 2011 D and you can argue the 2011 D had better players.

Diamondring
01-25-2013, 12:18 PM
Spags isn't coming back.

/threadYou're right but off season is going to be looooonnnnnng.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:21 PM
It takes more than a year or two for players to develop and play well. Who did the Rams have other than Jackson when Spags was there?

Sam Bradford, Danny Amendola, Brandon Lloyd and Danario Alexander?

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:21 PM
Spags isn't coming back.

/thread

THAT'S JUST NOT FAIR

GameTime
01-25-2013, 12:23 PM
And Perry has you shouting from the mountaintops...did you forgot how low we finished in overall defense last year? We really could use Spags to infuse the defense once again.
to be honest....we a an SB with both guys....
neither one is all that impressive......

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:24 PM
to be honest....we a an SB with both guys....
neither one is all that impressive......

Where ya been?

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:26 PM
Sam Bradford, Danny Amendola, Brandon Lloyd and Danario Alexander?
Bradford? You mean the young QB with a poor offensive line and no receivers?
What has Lloyd done?
I give you Amendola but he gets injured too often, and was he really that good when Spags was there?

Drez
01-25-2013, 12:27 PM
He didn't have the personell to be successful, you could of put any DC there and they wouldn't of done good. NO took the best on the market which was Spags to try to get something out of the slow and old D, not even Spags could.There's a difference between not doing well and being the worst defense in the history of the NFL.

GameTime
01-25-2013, 12:27 PM
Where ya been?
Hey Buckeroo...
Had laptop issues. Just getting back up with my computer. Been on here and there.
How are things??... Clod as a witches teet up here....

Drez
01-25-2013, 12:29 PM
But he hired and fired him in one year. He obviously didn't like what he saw/heard.Sure, if Spags had run a great defense this year he wouldn't have been fired, however, you cannot make the claim that a great coach fired him. Payton never worked with him and then decided to go in a completely different direction defensively.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:31 PM
Hey Buckeroo...
Had laptop issues. Just getting back up with my computer. Been on here and there.
How are things??... Cold as a witches teet up here....

I did my walk in 17 F weather. Brrrrrrrr

Expecting snow around noon time here.

CowboysSuck
01-25-2013, 12:32 PM
I wouldnt complain if we broughht back Spagnuolo. However, I would feel bad for Fewell. He didnt necessarily fail at his job...he won us a SB

Rudyy
01-25-2013, 12:33 PM
I did my walk in 17 F weather. Brrrrrrrr

Expecting snow around noon time here.Do you live in VA?

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:34 PM
There's a difference between not doing well and being the worst defense in the history of the NFL.

Do you think anybody else could get anything out of that D?

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:36 PM
Do you live in VA?

Yes ma'am

Drez
01-25-2013, 12:37 PM
Do you think anybody else could get anything out of that D?
I'd imagine they would have done a better job than Spags. Like I said, there's a difference between not doing well and being the worst ever. If Spags was as good a coach as people think, even if NO still had the worst defense in the NFL this season it shouldn't have ranked as the worst defense that was ever fielded in the history of the NFL.

GameTime
01-25-2013, 12:38 PM
I did my walk in 17 F weather. Brrrrrrrr

Expecting snow around noon time here.

thats too cold for me.....
yeah we are supposed to get some snow too but not much.

GTGiantsFan
01-25-2013, 12:39 PM
I'd imagine they would have done a better job than Spags. Like I said, there's a difference between not doing well and being the worst ever. If Spags was as good a coach as people think, even if NO still had the worst defense in the NFL this season it shouldn't have ranked as the worst defense that was ever fielded in the history of the NFL.

I doubt it. No matter how good of a coach you are if you don't have the players you won't do well. Good coaches have had bad years (maybe even the worst Defense in the league years) when they don't have people to implement their philosophy or scheme.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 12:40 PM
Do you think anybody else could get anything out of that D?

We'll never know. But their defense was ranked 24th in 2011 and dropped to 32nd in 2012

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 12:45 PM
We'll never know. But their defense was ranked 24th in 2011 and dropped to 32nd in 2012
An even more objective comparison for the NO defense.

2011
369 yards/game 21.2 points/game

2012 (with Spags)
440 yards/game 28.4 points per game

Thats a huge difference (to the worst) in 1 season with essentially the same players.

TheAnalyst
01-25-2013, 12:47 PM
An even more objective comparison for the NO defense.

2011
369 yards/game 21.2 points/game

2012 (with Spags)
440 yards/game 28.4 points per game

Thats a huge difference (to the worst) in 1 season with essentially the same players.

Minus a few key players and the HC. Losing Sean Payton effected the whole team IMO. Not to mention the whole Bountygate thing over their heads. Spags was set up to fail.

BuffyBlueII
01-25-2013, 12:47 PM
Yes ma'am

I aways assumed you lived in VA by your name. I am over here in Alexandria.

dezzzR
01-25-2013, 12:48 PM
Im all for a new DC but this thread is stupid

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:50 PM
Im all for a new DC but this thread is stupid

Come on now, I found the weather discussion enthralling.

dezzzR
01-25-2013, 12:50 PM
When you have to debate whos defense is/was worse, Spags or Fewell, one would think the majority of logical people would want neither.

BlueJayC
01-25-2013, 12:52 PM
That's the question, is it an upgrade? For three years Spags has failed miserably.

That truly is the question and in my opinion yes but that's all it is is my opinion.......

FYI - I think we're all aware that there's zero chance that this is going to happen......unless something unfortunate happens to Fewell in the very near future......any takers?

CowboysSuck
01-25-2013, 12:53 PM
Try living in Vermont. I walked to my 8am class at -10F this morning. 17F is warmmm

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 12:57 PM
FYI - I think we're all aware that there's zero chance that this is going to happen
It's just something to talk about during the off-season.

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 12:57 PM
Minus a few key players and the HC. Losing Sean Payton effected the whole team IMO. Not to mention the whole Bountygate thing over their heads. Spags was set up to fail.
There is failure and then there is "worst defense in the history of mankind.....by a lot" .....kind of failure.

Spags suffered the latter.

Flip Empty
01-25-2013, 01:01 PM
Spags tanked the Saints' season. Brees' 43 touchdowns and 5000+ yards couldn't keep the team afloat because the defense couldn't stop anyone.

TCHOF
01-25-2013, 01:02 PM
Sure, if Spags had run a great defense this year he wouldn't have been fired, however, you cannot make the claim that a great coach fired him. Payton never worked with him and then decided to go in a completely different direction defensively.

I don't get this. It is undipsputed that Payton fired him.

He didn't work with him but he looked at the film and knows what was going on defensively.

ImElectric2
01-25-2013, 01:11 PM
Spags will go to KC with Andy Reid as a position coach. Were not getting rid of Fewell. Pipe dreams are only worth discussing when there is more than 0% chance of it happening.

Redeyejedi
01-25-2013, 01:12 PM
The 2007 Giant Defense wasnt even that good until the playoffs. The 2008 Defense was good but it got worn down from lack of depth. Osi got hurt before the season guys started getting banged up and they didnt have the bodies to make up for it

BlueReign
01-25-2013, 01:19 PM
Schematically, I've got no problems with PF's defense. The execution by the players on the other hand...

Drez
01-25-2013, 01:23 PM
I don't get this. It is undipsputed that Payton fired him.

He didn't work with him but he looked at the film and knows what was going on defensively.You're missing my point. I'm saying that Payton isn't firing him based on any kind of experience on having worked with Spags. He's fired him just based on the poor results of this season. It's like a new GM coming to a team and cleaning house. There's nothing personal about it.

gumby74
01-25-2013, 01:31 PM
What's the difference between a good co-ordinator and a bad co-ordinator if it all comes down to player execution?

Morehead State
01-25-2013, 01:45 PM
You're missing my point. I'm saying that Payton isn't firing him based on any kind of experience on having worked with Spags. He's fired him just based on the poor results of this season. It's like a new GM coming to a team and cleaning house. There's nothing personal about it.
He fired him because the defense was the worst in NFL history and he was the DC.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 03:04 PM
He fired him because the defense was the worst in NFL history and he was the DC.

That would do it most of the time

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 03:50 PM
Here's a question. Spags was with the Eagles under Jimmy Johnson, they still need a DC, will they pick him up?

TCHOF
01-25-2013, 03:54 PM
You're missing my point. I'm saying that Payton isn't firing him based on any kind of experience on having worked with Spags. He's fired him just based on the poor results of this season. It's like a new GM coming to a team and cleaning house. There's nothing personal about it.

It's not like a new GM coming in and cleaning house at all because Payton actually hired Spags. He may not have physically worked with him, but I'm sure that Payton studied the coach's tape for every single game, and spoke to everyone on the team with knowledge of Spags' performance, before making the decision to fire the guy he hired only one year earlier.

I highly doubt that Payton would rely solely upon the defensive stats to fire a guy he hired just a year earlier.

TroyArcher
01-25-2013, 03:59 PM
He really has sunk rather quickly.

dakotajoe
01-25-2013, 04:44 PM
Spags will more likely be coaching for Brett Favre's high school team than coming back to the Giants.

His last 4 years have been among the worst in NFL history for a coach. Even though we won a SB when under him his reputation has eroded to the point where he is now considered one of the worst coaches in the league. I thank him for being part of the 07 SB but the NFL has changed in the past 5 years.

I don't get why people blame the players for Spag's failures on the Rams and New Orleans but on the Giants it's always Fewell's fault and never the players. Fewell's 2012 defense composed of mainly a bunch of old slow guys and talented younger players who are injury prone or were banged up. The feared MLB on the Giant's is an 8th grade mathematics teacher who didn't have a job in the NFL until the Giant's called him up and pulled him off the street. With all due respect Chase :). Even with the lack of talent the Giants forced the 3rd most turnovers in the league and had the 4th best turnover ratio.

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 06:20 PM
Spags will more likely be coaching for Brett Favre's high school team than coming back to the Giants.

His last 4 years have been among the worst in NFL history for a coach. Even though we won a SB when under him his reputation has eroded to the point where he is now considered one of the worst coaches in the league. I thank him for being part of the 07 SB but the NFL has changed in the past 5 years.

I don't get why people blame the players for Spag's failures on the Rams and New Orleans but on the Giants it's always Fewell's fault and never the players. Fewell's 2012 defense composed of mainly a bunch of old slow guys and talented younger players who are injury prone or were banged up. The feared MLB on the Giant's is an 8th grade mathematics teacher who didn't have a job in the NFL until the Giant's called him up and pulled him off the street. With all due respect Chase :). Even with the lack of talent the Giants forced the 3rd most turnovers in the league and had the 4th best turnover ratio.

Not to mention his numerous Super Bowl wins with the Eagles...OH WAIT :rolleyes:

jomo
01-25-2013, 06:27 PM
What's the difference between a good co-ordinator and a bad co-ordinator if it all comes down to player execution?Well, that would work in the fans evaluation of a good/bad coordinator but not for a great HC or GM or even astute fan.

par404
01-25-2013, 07:05 PM
That's okay.

Spagnolo new Giants linebackers coach. - No brainer.

NEW ORLEANS (AP) The New Orleans Saints have fired defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo after one season - a record-setting year in the wrong way.

New Orleans ranked last in the NFL in total defense and run defense, yielding the most yards (7,042) ever in a single season. The Saints went 7-9 this season and allowed 454 points; only Tennessee gave up more.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130124/saints-fire-defensive-coordinator-spagnuolo.ap/#ixzz2J20HRPY6

RoanokeFan
01-25-2013, 07:11 PM
That's okay.

Spagnolo new Giants linebackers coach. - No brainer.

NEW ORLEANS (AP) The New Orleans Saints have fired defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo after one season - a record-setting year in the wrong way.

New Orleans ranked last in the NFL in total defense and run defense, yielding the most yards (7,042) ever in a single season. The Saints went 7-9 this season and allowed 454 points; only Tennessee gave up more.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130124/saints-fire-defensive-coordinator-spagnuolo.ap/#ixzz2J20HRPY6

Not likely. You would create coaching and some player issues if you brought Spags on in any capacity. Fewell is the coordinator for 2013. He doesn't need a ghost on the team.

CDN_G-FAN
01-25-2013, 11:02 PM
I am grasping the only thing that matters, the record. Two teams with abysmal records.

We are talking about a former DC who helped us win a Super Bowl. We have a DC who helped us win a Super Bowl. And for those who simply say "bring him in anywhere on the defense" I would simply point to the Sanchez - Tebow circus across town. There is no room for Spags here this season.

For the record, he's not my Fewell. He's Reese's and Coughin's Fewell and that's good enough for me.

what an awesome post.

Sean Payton and the Saints organization are not a group of crazy Dan Snyder type football nut-jobs. Its a decent organization.

guys saying he was stuck in a tough situation are missing the fact that the FO at least but more likely the FO AND Payton had a say in firing him, and clearly the 'stuck in a tough situation' wasn't cutting it for them.

we have plenty of evidence now. two years of great defense with the giants, and nothing but excuses since.

Wade Phillips wasn't a good head coach, but he's still a good DC whereever he goes.

Spags was a good DC for two years, and its looking like he (or we) caught lightening in a bottle those two years, because we haven't re-created that kinda defense since then, and neither has he.

pathas
01-29-2013, 05:03 PM
I've been out of touch for a while. Has there been any support on the boards for bringing Spags back to replace Fewell? If not let this be the first message in support of that idea.

RoanokeFan
01-29-2013, 05:09 PM
It's been discussed. Some do, and some don't

pathas
01-29-2013, 05:11 PM
what do you think RF?

pathas
01-29-2013, 05:16 PM
here's my opinion. Spagnolo thinks fast and is confident. That's critical in game time adjustments. Fewell thinks slow and is unsure of what's happening - that's why our D is unorganized time after time when the snap is coming. How many times this year was Blackburn moving guys around at the point when the ball was snapped. Our D was caught unprepared at snap time way too many times this year (and last year too for that matter).

TCHOF
01-29-2013, 05:20 PM
here's my opinion. Spagnolo thinks fast and is confident. That's critical in game time adjustments. Fewell thinks slow and is unsure of what's happening - that's why our D is unorganized time after time when the snap is coming. How many times this year was Blackburn moving guys around at the point when the ball was snapped. Our D was caught unprepared at snap time way too many times this year (and last year too for that matter).

Spags hasn't looked fast or confident since he left here.

RoanokeFan
01-29-2013, 05:23 PM
what do you think RF?

I say no and my opinions can be found above

Cloud57
01-29-2013, 05:33 PM
Spags hasn't looked fast or confident since he left here.That's why he needs to come back because he won't have success anywhere else lol

JesseJames
01-29-2013, 05:38 PM
if I'm remembering correctly our defense didn't look as confused about their responsibilities on the field when Spags was here as they seem to now with Fewell

pathas
01-29-2013, 07:39 PM
ONLY TWO TIMES IN HISTORY -2011 AND 2012 has a Giants defense allowed over 6,000 yards. 2011 and 2012. 2012 - the first time the Giants' defense was ranked second-to-last in the NFL since 1966. UNFORGIVEABLE. Fewell's bend and don't break crap zone defense is only good for bragging about how you stopped offenses from scoring TD's in the red zone. How bout stopping an offense from getting into the red zone in the first frikkin place??? Spags defense was near the top of the league when he was with Giants cause he's smart and aggresive man defense and has all kind of blitz packages. Who cares what happened at St Louis. Maybe he's not cut out to be a HC. And nobody would have done better at the titanic down in NO last year. I know it will never happen, but anyone who thinks Spagnuolo isn't an improvement over the current DC just doesn't get Giants football.

pathas
01-29-2013, 07:42 PM
Spags hasn't looked fast or confident since he left here.

he's been in entirely different situations. He wasn't DC at St Louis. HE WAS HC. I'm not saying he should be HC. In NO - what a mess. What do you want from him? Its not his fault NO was in the situation they were in.

pathas
01-29-2013, 07:44 PM
That's why he needs to come back because he won't have success anywhere else lol

if egils don't go 3-4 look for him to be pretty dam successful there. Or like someone else said - maybe in KC with Andy R.

RoanokeFan
01-29-2013, 07:49 PM
ONLY TWO TIMES IN HISTORY -2011 AND 2012 has a Giants defense allowed over 6,000 yards. 2011 and 2012. 2012 - the first time the Giants' defense was ranked second-to-last in the NFL since 1966. UNFORGIVEABLE. Fewell's bend and don't break crap zone defense is only good for bragging about how you stopped offenses from scoring TD's in the red zone. How bout stopping an offense from getting into the red zone in the first frikkin place??? Spags defense was near the top of the league when he was with Giants cause he's smart and aggresive man defense and has all kind of blitz packages. Who cares what happened at St Louis. Maybe he's not cut out to be a HC. And nobody would have done better at the titanic down in NO last year. I know it will never happen, but anyone who thinks Spagnuolo isn't an improvement over the current DC just doesn't get Giants football.

We went to the Super Bowl with Spagnuolo and won and he elected to go to greener pastures and failed twice. We went to the Super Bowl with Fewell and won and he's still here and under contract. Spags' old team, the Eagles, needed a DC when Spags was released from The Saints. He's still unemployed as far as I know. An argument can be made that the players made Spags a great DC. In any event, he's not coming here in any capacity.

pathas
01-29-2013, 08:02 PM
I know - man - how frustating this is. This really sucks.

BeatYale
01-29-2013, 08:19 PM
If that was true why did our defense suck so bad after Sheridan took over?

5-7 step drops with max protection is what happened. Teams were killing us downfield. Michael Johnson and C.C Brown were exposed. Johnson was the 2nd worst safety in the league that year and he played the 3rd most snaps on our team. C.C Brown was a liability in coverage also, but played somewhat decent in run support compared to Johnson.

thomasjmarino
01-29-2013, 09:06 PM
ONLY TWO TIMES IN HISTORY -2011 AND 2012 has a Giants defense allowed over 6,000 yards. 2011 and 2012. 2012 - the first time the Giants' defense was ranked second-to-last in the NFL since 1966. UNFORGIVEABLE. Fewell's bend and don't break crap zone defense is only good for bragging about how you stopped offenses from scoring TD's in the red zone. How bout stopping an offense from getting into the red zone in the first frikkin place??? Spags defense was near the top of the league when he was with Giants cause he's smart and aggresive man defense and has all kind of blitz packages. Who cares what happened at St Louis. Maybe he's not cut out to be a HC. And nobody would have done better at the titanic down in NO last year. I know it will never happen, but anyone who thinks Spagnuolo isn't an improvement over the current DC just doesn't get Giants football.

I really don't know what the hell is wrong with some of these guys.
Do they actually think Fewell is better than Spags?
Unbelievable!

Drez
01-29-2013, 09:10 PM
I really don't know what the hell is wrong with some of these guys.
Do they actually think Fewell is better than Spags?
Unbelievable!
So, you want to replace a guy that allowed 6,000 yards with a guy that allowed over 7,000? Do I have that right?

pathas
01-29-2013, 09:18 PM
do you really want to blame that crapfest in NO on Spagnuolo? You like having the worst Giants defense since 1966?

thomasjmarino
01-29-2013, 09:31 PM
So, you want to replace a guy that allowed 6,000 yards with a guy that allowed over 7,000? Do I have that right?

See what I mean?
Unbelievable!

thomasjmarino
01-29-2013, 09:33 PM
We went to the Super Bowl with Spagnuolo and won and he elected to go to greener pastures and failed twice. We went to the Super Bowl with Fewell and won and he's still here and under contract. Spags' old team, the Eagles, needed a DC when Spags was released from The Saints. He's still unemployed as far as I know. An argument can be made that the players made Spags a great DC. In any event, he's not coming here in any capacity.

So, going with that logic, Jim Fassel was an excellent HC???????????

Drez
01-29-2013, 09:34 PM
do you really want to blame that crapfest in NO on Spagnuolo? You like having the worst Giants defense since 1966?So, Fewell is to blame for our mess, but not Spags his?

He has done absolutely nothing since leaving the Giants to inspire me to believe that he will be any better than Fewell (of whom I am not a fan, btw). He fielded a great pass rush in '07 and a great defense in '08, five years ago. Nothing since.

If I had my druthers neither PF or Spags would be our DC, though I honestly don't know who'd I want to replace PF.

Drez
01-29-2013, 09:35 PM
See what I mean?
Unbelievable!
Yeah. Logic. It's a real *****.

pathas
01-29-2013, 09:40 PM
logic??? Using your logic Patriots should have never hired Belicheat because of his performance at Cleveland. Right DREZ???

Drez
01-29-2013, 09:49 PM
logic??? Using your logic Patriots should have never hired Belicheat because of his performance at Cleveland. Right DREZ???
So, using your logic we should rehire Tim Lewis? I mean, he fielded a few top-10 defenses before.

rebelfan1966
01-30-2013, 03:15 PM
We need a DC that can game plan for the read option.....

Flip Empty
01-30-2013, 03:26 PM
One question mark is usually sufficient.

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 04:58 PM
So, going with that logic, Jim Fassel was an excellent HC???????????


What has Fassell got to do with this topic? Can anyone deny Spags has failed in the two jobs he's had since leaving East Rutherford?

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 05:00 PM
logic??? Using your logic Patriots should have never hired Belicheat because of his performance at Cleveland. Right DREZ???

No one is saying Spags won't be a successful coach in the future. It does, however, seem clear he's not a success wherever he goes and whatever position he takes.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 05:33 PM
What has Fassell got to do with this topic? Can anyone deny Spags has failed in the two jobs he's had since leaving East Rutherford?

Let me know when you figure it out...................:confused:

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 05:36 PM
No one is saying Spags won't be a successful coach in the future. It does, however, seem clear he's not a success wherever he goes and whatever position he takes.

Doesn't make any sense to not bring him in and try to find a spot for him.
This guy is going to be a success again and God forbid it be with another NFC East team or even an NFC team.
It will be bad enough if it's anywhere but with the Giants.

Drez
01-30-2013, 05:42 PM
Doesn't make any sense to not bring him in and try to find a spot for him.
This guy is going to be a success again and God forbid it be with another NFC East team or even an NFC team.
It will be bad enough if it's anywhere but with the Giants.
What has he done in the past 4-5 years to make you believe that he will be successful again?

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 05:45 PM
What has he done in the past 4-5 years to make you believe that he will be successful again?

Ok, tell ya what, let's let it go and see what happens.
That's the Giants philosophy anyway.
I'll get back to you.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 05:47 PM
Ya think maybe JR is not happy about Spags leaving?
Makes me think of that scene in Beverly Hills Cop.

JR: Heyyyyyy Cuuuuuuzzzzzzz
Spags: Are you still pissed at me?

Drez
01-30-2013, 05:51 PM
Ya think maybe JR is not happy about Spags leaving?
Makes me think of that scene in Beverly Hills Cop.

JR: Heyyyyyy Cuuuuuuzzzzzzz
Spags: Are you still pissed at me?
What makes you think that JR is upset that Spags left?

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 06:14 PM
Doesn't make any sense to not bring him in and try to find a spot for him.
This guy is going to be a success again and God forbid it be with another NFC East team or even an NFC team.
It will be bad enough if it's anywhere but with the Giants.

You simply can't do that and not expect problems. We can only have one DC at a time. Spags hasn't been picked up by any team as of yet. There is a reason for that.

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 06:15 PM
Ya think maybe JR is not happy about Spags leaving?
Makes me think of that scene in Beverly Hills Cop.

JR: Heyyyyyy Cuuuuuuzzzzzzz
Spags: Are you still pissed at me?

JR: It's just a business, Spags, wish you well

pathas
01-30-2013, 09:28 PM
What has he done in the past 4-5 years to make you believe that he will be successful again?

Belichek was a disaster at Cleveland for five years and Parcells hired him back as DC in 1996. What happened? Oh yeah - Patriots went to the Super Bowl that year. Its not what Spags did at St Louis and NO that matters. Its what he did for our defense when he was here -which was amazing. He is the best DC we've had - period. I say he should get the opportunity to try again.

pathas
01-30-2013, 09:29 PM
or at least that we've had since Billy Cheat.

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 09:38 PM
Belichek was a disaster at Cleveland for five years and Parcells hired him back as DC in 1996. What happened? Oh yeah - Patriots went to the Super Bowl that year. Its not what Spags did at St Louis and NO that matters. Its what he did for our defense when he was here -which was amazing. He is the best DC we've had - period. I say he should get the opportunity to try again.

Or did our players make the difference?

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 09:39 PM
Belichek was a disaster at Cleveland for five years and Parcells hired him back as DC in 1996. What happened? Oh yeah - Patriots went to the Super Bowl that year. Its not what Spags did at St Louis and NO that matters. Its what he did for our defense when he was here -which was amazing. He is the best DC we've had - period. I say he should get the opportunity to try again.

Good Job my friend!
For some reason the moderator just doesn't want to give in.
Must be related to Fewell or something...

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 09:42 PM
Good Job my friend!
For some reason the moderator just doesn't want to give in.
Must be related to Fewell or something...

We simply have differing opinions

pathas
01-30-2013, 09:42 PM
Or did our players make the difference?

hell yes they made a difference - Just like the players on the GIANTS will make a difference for Spags when he comes back.

RoanokeFan
01-30-2013, 09:43 PM
hell yes they made a difference - Just like the players on the GIANTS will make a difference for Spags when he comes back.

2014 is a long way off but I am glad you realize the players made him the "best DC we've had"

Drez
01-30-2013, 09:44 PM
Belichek was a disaster at Cleveland for five years and Parcells hired him back as DC in 1996. What happened? Oh yeah - Patriots went to the Super Bowl that year. Its not what Spags did at St Louis and NO that matters. Its what he did for our defense when he was here -which was amazing. He is the best DC we've had - period. I say he should get the opportunity to try again.
Actually, I'd say Belichick or Landry were the best DCs we've ever had. Fox is coming in close there, too.

What Spags did with our defense 5-6 years ago is rather inconsequential at this point in time. Our defense wasn't even that great for most of '07. We fielded a decent pass rush, but they didn't tighten the screws until the playoffs. In '08 he led a dominant defensive unit. That's it. In his 6 years as DC or HC, he can lay claim to having one great playoff run and one great season. That's it. I'm not saying that he's crap and won't ever have success again, but at this point he's had several opportunities to do so and hasn't. At least BB after leaving Cleveland went on to have immediate success again as a DC. He also didn't do nearly as horrible a job in Cleveland as his record suggests.

If we're looking to bring back DCs that have had some modicum of success in the past, why not bring back Tim Lewis, he's led several top 10 and top 5 defenses?

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 09:45 PM
hell yes they made a difference - Just like the players on the GIANTS will make a difference for Spags when he comes back.

I like this guy!!!

pathas
01-30-2013, 09:45 PM
Good Job my friend!
For some reason the moderator just doesn't want to give in.
Must be related to Fewell or something...

definetley

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 09:48 PM
Actually, I'd say Belichick or Landry were the best DCs we've ever had. Fox is coming in close there, too.

What Spags did with our defense 5-6 years ago is rather inconsequential at this point in time. Our defense wasn't even that great for most of '07. We fielded a decent pass rush, but they didn't tighten the screws until the playoffs. In '08 he led a dominant defensive unit. That's it. In his 6 years as DC or HC, he can lay claim to having one great playoff run and one great season. That's it. I'm not saying that he's crap and won't ever have success again, but at this point he's had several opportunities to do so and hasn't. At least BB after leaving Cleveland went on to have immediate success again as a DC. He also didn't do nearly as horrible a job in Cleveland as his record suggests.

If we're looking to bring back DCs that have had some modicum of success in the past, why not bring back Tim Lewis, he's led several top 10 and top 5 defenses?

Your argument holds no water.
What you're saying is that Spags performance was on the rise.
I think I would take that.
Wouldn't you?

Drez
01-30-2013, 09:48 PM
Good Job my friend!
For some reason the moderator just doesn't want to give in.
Must be related to Fewell or something...
RFs status as moderator has nothing to do with his feelings of bringing Spags back.

Also, just because he's not enamored with bring back Spags doesn't mean that he has any particular love for Fewell. It just means he sees no particular benefit bringing in Spags, particularly in a situation where he would be Fewell's subordinate, as that may cause some discordance in the locker room.

Drez
01-30-2013, 09:51 PM
Your argument holds no water.
What you're saying is that Spags performance was on the rise.
I think I would take that.
Wouldn't you?
How does my argument hold no water? Spags performance was excellent in late 2007 and 2008. Since then it has been on a steady decline, culminating in leading the worst defense (yardage) in the history of the NFL. Time didn't stop in '08. His career has been on a definitive down slope the past 4 years.There are any number of coaches that caught lightening in a bottle and had a stellar season or two, yet have proven over the long haul to not have been superior coaches.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 09:57 PM
How does my argument hold no water? Spags performance was excellent in late 2007 and 2008. Since then it has been on a steady decline, culminating in leading the worst defense (yardage) in the history of the NFL. Time didn't stop in '08. His career has been on a definitive down slope the past 4 years.There are any number of coaches that caught lightening in a bottle and had a stellar season or two, yet have proven over the long haul to not have been superior coaches.

You obviously are picking and choosing your research.
Have you not read the posts?
When I said his performance was on the rise I was speaking as DC of the G-Men.
Can't judge him with the crap he had to work with since.

pathas
01-30-2013, 09:58 PM
Spags' defense was the best defense since Belicheat. Better than Fox, Lewis, Fewell - whoever - -just go look up the stats. Look at the way guys played for him. That's what counts. This defense is confused and players are under utilized. How many under achievers do we have for c sake? When Spagnuolo was here we had OVER achievers. Now we have under achievers.

jomo
01-30-2013, 10:00 PM
I'd take him in a heartbeat over PF but don't think it will happen.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:03 PM
Spags' defense was the best defense since Belicheat. Better than Fox, Lewis, Fewell - whoever - -just go look up the stats. Look at the way guys played for him. That's what counts. This defense is confused and players are under utilized. How many under achievers do we have for c sake? When Spagnuolo was here we had OVER achievers. Now we have under achievers.

My brother, you are talking to the wall.
These guys don't understand.

pathas
01-30-2013, 10:04 PM
I'd take him in a heartbeat over PF but don't think it will happen.

voice of reason - FINALLY - I was beginning to think me and marino were the only sane people on this board

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:04 PM
You obviously are picking and choosing your research.
Have you not read the posts?
When I said his performance was on the rise I was speaking as DC of the G-Men.
Can't judge him with the crap he had to work with since.
I'm sorry, but that is a really stupid statement. Why can't you look at what he's done since? If that were the case, Tim Lewis led us to a top 10 defense before. It doesn't matter what he's done since. He had that one good year.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:04 PM
I'd take him in a heartbeat over PF but don't think it will happen.

Ya think Mr. Mara reads these posts?

pathas
01-30-2013, 10:04 PM
My brother, you are talking to the wall.
These guys don't understand.

I know - sigh

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:05 PM
You obviously are picking and choosing your research.
Have you not read the posts?
When I said his performance was on the rise I was speaking as DC of the G-Men.
Can't judge him with the crap he had to work with since.
Also, how am I picking and choosing? I'm looking at his entire body of work, not just 1 season and a little better.

pathas
01-30-2013, 10:06 PM
Ya think Mr. Mara reads these posts?

you bet

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:06 PM
voice of reason - FINALLY - I was beginning to think me and marino were the only sane people on this board

Now you're talking!!!! ;)

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:07 PM
Spags' defense was the best defense since Belicheat. Better than Fox, Lewis, Fewell - whoever - -just go look up the stats. Look at the way guys played for him. That's what counts. This defense is confused and players are under utilized. How many under achievers do we have for c sake? When Spagnuolo was here we had OVER achievers. Now we have under achievers.And what since Spags has left makes you think that he'll be able to achieve the same level of success he had prior?

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:07 PM
Also, how am I picking and choosing? I'm looking at his entire body of work, not just 1 season and a little better.

Forget it bro
You're lost!

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:07 PM
you bet I sure as hell hope not.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:08 PM
And what since Spags has left makes you think that he'll be able to achieve the same level of success he had prior?

Seriously?
Give me what you're smoking cause I want to get stoned too.

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:09 PM
Forget it bro
You're lost!
Yeah. I'm the lost one because I'm not reliving the success a coach had 4 years ago?

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:11 PM
Yeah. I'm the lost one because I'm not reliving the success a coach had 4 years ago?

Head like a rock.......

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:12 PM
Head like a rock.......Yes you do.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:14 PM
Yes you do.

Let's get TC to settle this.
Ok?

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:15 PM
Let's get TC to settle this.
Ok?He has. He didn't fire Fewell and re-hire Spags.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:17 PM
He has. He didn't fire Fewell and re-hire Spags.

Yet

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:19 PM
YetIf he hasn't yet what makes you think he will?

B&RWarrior
01-30-2013, 10:23 PM
Spags was coaching a younger and healthier J. Tuck, STRAY THE LEGEND, Fred Robbins, Young Osi, AP, Sam Madison at corner with a little juice left in the tank and formerly the best corner in the league, Gibril Wilson a super playmaker at safety, better than Rolle IMO. How can you compare the personnel with what we had on D in 2012? Great coaches accomplish great things with great players. Spags alone won't help us.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:31 PM
Spags was coaching a younger and healthier J. Tuck, STRAY THE LEGEND, Fred Robbins, Young Osi, AP, Sam Madison at corner with a little juice left in the tank and formerly the best corner in the league, Gibril Wilson a super playmaker at safety, better than Rolle IMO. How can you compare the personnel with what we had on D in 2012? Great coaches accomplish great things with great players. Spags alone won't help us.

So are you saying that it's JR's fault?
Because it doesn't sound like you're blaming Spags.
As you shouldn't.
Which, if true, proves my case.

thomasjmarino
01-30-2013, 10:32 PM
If he hasn't yet what makes you think he will?

Tick..Tock
Tick..Tock
Tick..Tock

Drez
01-30-2013, 10:34 PM
Tick..Tock
Tick..Tock
Tick..TockIf he hasn't yet, he won't.