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rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:04 PM
Just a place to compare post notes.
Who are you looking at today
who impresses you

I am going to be looking at Ansah, S.Taylor, JJ Wilcox, and Cyprein as just a couple names.




Edti. If there is a similar thread srry.

TCHOF
01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
Good idea for a thread.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:07 PM
Depending on how these QB's fair today, plus Combine performances. I truly feel 3-4 QB's go in the first. 3 is more realistic which will help guys drop to us.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:08 PM
wow trufant closed the gap on that, good hustle and speed on that

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:11 PM
Sylvester Williams got pushed back on that, not good. granted it was a little of a double team but I saw no intensity on that play

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:14 PM
Shane P. Hallam ‏@ShanePHallam
EJ Manuel shouldn't be a Top 100 pick, but if a coach like Chip Kelly wants a multidimensional QB, they may need to pounce on EJ

- possible in the first cause he is gone early in the second even if the eagles have a top 5 pick

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:18 PM
Ansah just power moved wagner and pushed him back a good 5 yards. hmmmm...

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:24 PM
great catch by michael williams TE , that kid is huge
I knew there was something special about this kid he out ran TJ mcdonald for the TD. TJ had no chance on that

juice33s
01-26-2013, 05:31 PM
great catch by michael williams TE , that kid is huge
I knew there was something special about this kid he out ran TJ mcdonald for the TD. TJ had no chance on that
He reminds me of Howard Cross

juice33s
01-26-2013, 05:32 PM
Ansahs dominating Wagner

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:34 PM
Ansahs dominating Wagner

you saw that lol.
Fisher is a beast man wow

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:46 PM
Cyprien can get in there and make open field hits. I love it.

TCHOF
01-26-2013, 05:53 PM
wagner not helping himself

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:53 PM
Ansah getting hands up if he can't get to the QB, good stuff.
Rambo Pick and a okay return. Sprtzfan somewhere is smiling

juice33s
01-26-2013, 05:54 PM
Nope, take him off the draft board

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:55 PM
wagner not helping himself
Ansah just looks like too much for him to handle, even if he stops him ansah is getting his hands up, tipping balls. all around bad situation for him, but he needs to step up.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 05:55 PM
How is Okafor looking?

<--- Doesn't have NFLN

juice33s
01-26-2013, 05:56 PM
Ansah getting hands up if he can't get to the QB, good stuff.
Rambo Pick and a okay return. Sprtzfan somewhere is smiling
Not sure, but i think the pick came on man coverage in the slot, very impressive

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:57 PM
Damn poyer almost had that but that should have been caught.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 05:57 PM
How is Okafor looking?

<--- Doesn't have NFLN

not in yet

Check your PM

juice33s
01-26-2013, 05:58 PM
How is Okafor looking?

<--- Doesn't have NFLN
Hasn't seen the field yet...., on a seperate note Poyer almost had a pick. Seems like alot of the guys we talked alot about over the course of the season are flashing...God this board has good taste in players

drewz
01-26-2013, 05:59 PM
Ansah is the best player on the field on defense, he's probably pricing himself out of our range now

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 05:59 PM
He reminds me of Howard Cross Solid comparison..

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:00 PM
Not sure, but i think the pick came on man coverage in the slot, very impressive
It was he played Robber on that scheme. I think he would fit well on our team, and be a part of the rotation mid season.

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:00 PM
And ya, we got a SR BOWL thread..

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:00 PM
Solid comparison..

lol your only here cause rambo picked that ball lol... where were you buddy :P

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:01 PM
Rambo and Poyer baby! My dudes!!!!

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:02 PM
Holy cow Ansah, smfh

drewz
01-26-2013, 06:02 PM
Still raw as hell as a pass rusher tho

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:02 PM
lol your only here cause rambo picked that ball lol... where were you buddy :P huh? Nah, i didn't even know it was on yet! I've been gambling on college basketball all day, and all o f a sudden i check here and see games going, and tune in, and boom, pick by my guy!!!


Just mocked em in the mock u knocked, sweet!!!lol

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:03 PM
And ya, we got a SR BOWL thread..
Oh really I didn't see one. my fault

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:05 PM
Oh really I didn't see one. my fault Don't sweat it.. Nassib with terrible miss with wide open Jack Doyle...

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:08 PM
Don't sweat it.. Nassib with terrible miss with wide open Jack Doyle...
It's like he trying to force it on every down. I need the north to mantain some consistent drives, I would like to see more of rambo smfh

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:09 PM
L.Jones looks small man

juice33s
01-26-2013, 06:10 PM
EJ Manuel seems to be far and away the best QB here

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:12 PM
Cornellius washington a guy i mocked in the 7th, has been getting held for some time finally he breaks one, if he is consistent he moves up

juice33s
01-26-2013, 06:12 PM
Take Ansah off our board, noway he gets to us

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:14 PM
Slyvester Williams has be unimpressive so far.

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:15 PM
Hey Kevin Red**** just dropped in coverege and did a great job.. GOod to see.. Didn't make the clean tackle but stopped the reciever enough for other guys to get em...

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:16 PM
Kawaan Short, Sly Williams, and Jordan Hill, all making plays! What a great overall class we got this yr...

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:16 PM
I Know Datone Jones is a DT, but what about using him as a DE in a 4-3 front?

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:17 PM
Slyvester Williams has be unimpressive so far. He just made a great qb hurry with kawaan short where he just tossed aside the Guard and blew right to the QB...

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:18 PM
I Know Datone Jones is a DT, but what about using him as a DE in a 4-3 front?Datone Jones is a DE.. Hes not a DT.. He slides inside sometimes though..

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:18 PM
He just made a great qb hurry with kawaan short where he just tossed aside the Guard and blew right to the QB... yeah lol I posted it shortly before he did that, i want to see more from him as i am high on him.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
Datone Jones is a DE.. Hes not a DT.. He slides inside sometimes though..
Oh really, I thought he was was a DT that kicked out as a DE some times.

juice33s
01-26-2013, 06:19 PM
Datone Jones is a DE.. Hes not a DT.. He slides inside sometimes though..
Same as Ansah, both played out of position in their college scheme and now finally get to showcase what they can do in their natural position as a 4/3 DE

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:26 PM
Oh really, I thought he was was a DT that kicked out as a DE some times. Nope, hes a perfect future replacement for Justin Tuck.. Thats who he reminds me of, personally..

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:28 PM
Like i've basically said all yr, if i needed a QB, the only one worth a snot is Geno Smith, and even then, its a risk, and i woulden't take Geno number1 overall.. Its a terrible class.. A couple possiblities there, but nothing special... I just don't like many of em, that much..

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:29 PM
sigh* these QB's are making me fall asleep

juice33s
01-26-2013, 06:29 PM
God these qaurterbacks suck

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:31 PM
Jordan Hill, Datone Jones, Kawaan SHort, Sly Williams are just destorying the North!!!! My lord!

juice33s
01-26-2013, 06:32 PM
Just heard Okafor was out with a hip injury, won't play...Also Jamar Taylor is sick and won't play

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:33 PM
God these qaurterbacks suck What do u think about Kawaan Short? i"ve said hes a 1st rder, even when inexplicablly diffrent draft sites had em in the mid 2nd range.. I stuck by em, and hes looking like a stud.. Do u think hes a 1st rder when said and done? Hes my top ranked DT, ahead of Sheldon Richardson..

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 06:36 PM
Just heard Okafor was out with a hip injury, won't play...Also Jamar Taylor is sick and won't play Jamar Taylor is awesome.. Climbing boards and its to darn bad we coulden't see em out there today..

juice33s
01-26-2013, 06:39 PM
What do u think about Kawaan Short? i"ve said hes a 1st rder, even when inexplicablly diffrent draft sites had em in the mid 2nd range.. I stuck by em, and hes looking like a stud.. Do u think hes a 1st rder when said and done? Hes my top ranked DT, ahead of Sheldon Richardson..
Haven't watched much of the DT class to tell you the truth, but one thign I heard that i found interesting was that a high ranking executive garunteed Shariff Floyd would go top ten....

I will make it a point to watch Richardson and Short and let you know which one I like better...infact give me 20 mintues lol

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:47 PM
oh jesus glennon

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 06:51 PM
is it just me or is nico not that instinctual... strong case for minter ey?

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Poyer and Short making money for themselves today

drewz
01-26-2013, 07:02 PM
Jordan Poyer is a guy look at too..

juice33s
01-26-2013, 07:03 PM
What do u think about Kawaan Short? i"ve said hes a 1st rder, even when inexplicablly diffrent draft sites had em in the mid 2nd range.. I stuck by em, and hes looking like a stud.. Do u think hes a 1st rder when said and done? Hes my top ranked DT, ahead of Sheldon Richardson..
I watched one game of each: Short vs Iowa, Richardson ve SC
Richardson's obviously the better athlete, quicker and much lighter on his feet. Despite being the bigger man, Short seems to get pushed back against the run more often then Rochardson does. Both can be very disruptive shooting the gaps and both figure to be natural fits at the 3tech.

Right now I'd say Richardson is the 1st rounder/better prospectt. Short looks like a 2nd rounder to me (Though while I'm writting this Mayock is calling him a first, oh well I'll stick to my gut)

GoDeep80
01-26-2013, 07:05 PM
Gotta say I'd be happy with Poyer too. Guy is 6 ft, great tackler, Zone specialist, turnover machine.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 07:08 PM
who is this Vince william kid MLB F.State Redeye I need some tape on him

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:14 PM
This is a good CB class imo. Not top heavy but lots of decent talent in the middle to late range.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 07:18 PM
I Know Datone Jones is a DT, but what about using him as a DE in a 4-3 front? Jones was a 3-4 end for UCLA. Can b a Strongside end in a 4-3

GoDeep80
01-26-2013, 07:19 PM
And there goes Ansah.

Carter.525
01-26-2013, 07:19 PM
bye bye Ansah..

drewz
01-26-2013, 07:21 PM
Chandler Jones dropped to 31 last year, Ziggy may still be there at #19

juice33s
01-26-2013, 07:23 PM
Chandler Jones dropped to 31 last year, Ziggy may still be there at #19
correction 21...and more like rose...At the end of the college season most thought he was a 2-3rd round prospect

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:26 PM
If Ansah does well at the combine like we all expect, he's a possible Brown at #6 overall.

Carter.525
01-26-2013, 07:28 PM
If Ansah does well at the combine like we all expect, he's a possible Brown at #6 overall.

yup.. welcome to Cleveland..

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:34 PM
yup.. welcome to Cleveland..

good,,I see nothing special about with this kid,,yeah he reminds you of JPP but thats it.

JSpin
01-26-2013, 07:35 PM
I honestly still see him there at 19. He's more raw than JPP and that's saying something! Wasn't a starter at the beginning of this year and had no production at all in his other two years. You're telling me you want a guy in the first that's this raw with only 4 sacks?? Too risky for my liking. For every JPP there's 10 Vernon Gholstons... no thanks. Ogletree.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:37 PM
I honestly still see him there at 19. He's more raw than JPP and that's saying something! Wasn't a starter at the beginning of this year and had no production at all in his other two years. Too risky for my liking. For every JPP there's 10 Vernon Gholstons... no thanks. Ogletree.

JPP was a junior college all american before going to USF. ansah is raw as sushi. only started this year due to injury so his own college team didn't view him as a starter.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:38 PM
Dontari Poe also didn't do squat in college but since he blew up the combine with jaw dropping numbers (and we all know Ansah has that potential too), he shot all the way to the #11 overall pick last year. It just depends on how much that team's college scouting department loves raw athleticism.

juice33s
01-26-2013, 07:38 PM
Glennon looks like Napoleon Dynamite

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:40 PM
Dontari Poe also didn't do squat in college but since he blew up the combine with jaw dropping numbers (and we all know Ansah has that potential too), he shot all the way to the #11 overall pick last year. It just depends on how much that team's college scouting department loves raw athleticism.

and Poe has been a big disappointment/bust

JSpin
01-26-2013, 07:40 PM
JPP was a junior college all american before going to USF. ansah is raw as sushi. only started this year due to injury so his own college team didn't view him as a starter.

Exactly. People are blinded by the JPP comparisons. Ansah hasn't produced anything on the field and only has 4.5 more sacks in college than me! lol

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:42 PM
Exactly. People are blinded by the JPP comparisons. Ansah hasn't produced anything on the field and only has 4.5 more sacks in college than me! lol I just dont get it,,am I blind? I havent watched the entire game but every play I saw ansah in consisted of him getting pushed back and out of the play.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:42 PM
and Poe has been a big disappointment/bust

He late bloomed at the end of the season. Nose Tackle isn't exactly a position that gets much love in the general media unless you're the top guy.

juice33s
01-26-2013, 07:43 PM
Exactly. People are blinded by the JPP comparisons. Ansah hasn't produced anything on the field and only has 4.5 more sacks in college than me! lol
You gotta watch the games though...Ansah pretty much played the 5tech and nose tackle positions exclusively at BYU and still managed to flash his talents. Now he gets to play 4/3 end and he dominates....His stats are misleading and him taking double teams was a huge reason Kyle Van Noy blew up this year

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:44 PM
He late bloomed at the end of the season. Nose Tackle isn't exactly a position that gets much love in the general media unless you're the top guy. I heard somewhere the cheifs are no longer high on him and could be looking to draft another nose tackle.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:44 PM
enigma,,,,are you truly sold on ansah? you seem to be very knowledgeable.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 07:45 PM
I honestly still see him there at 19. He's more raw than JPP and that's saying something! Wasn't a starter at the beginning of this year and had no production at all in his other two years. You're telling me you want a guy in the first that's this raw with only 4 sacks?? Too risky for my liking. For every JPP there's 10 Vernon Gholstons... no thanks. Ogletree.U realize he never played football ever before joining the team. Did u expect him to walk into a Top 40 NCAA Program and start Day 1. He was also a 3-4 end. He wasnt charging upfield like a lot of the guys that have better numbers

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:46 PM
U realize he never played football ever before joining the team. Did u expect him to walk into a Top 40 NCAA Program and start Day 1.

no,,nor do I see him as 1st rounder,,its just not there. and he was there 3 years,,only started because of injury.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:47 PM
I heard somewhere the cheifs are no longer high on him and could be looking to draft another nose tackle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuDiFqZpxE0

He's been a hit or miss guy in his rookie season but it's obvious that he has the ability to dominate. Just a matter of "getting it".

juice33s
01-26-2013, 07:47 PM
U realize he never played football ever before joining the team. Did u expect him to walk into a Top 40 NCAA Program and start Day 1.
Not only had he never played, he ahd never watched and new nothing about the sport

JSpin
01-26-2013, 07:47 PM
Dontari Poe also didn't do squat in college but since he blew up the combine with jaw dropping numbers (and we all know Ansah has that potential too), he shot all the way to the #11 overall pick last year. It just depends on how much that team's college scouting department loves raw athleticism.

Poe played three full years... Ansah? 1.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:48 PM
enigma,,,,are you truly sold on ansah? you seem to be very knowledgeable.

Still think he is a more natural fit at 3-4 myself but he can be a really good 4-3 DE too. Just don't think he is the guy who will get 15+ sacks like you would expect from a highly drafted 4-3 DE. More around 7-12 sacks a season while providing elite run support.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 07:49 PM
no,,nor do I see him as 1st rounder,,its just not there. and he was there 3 years,,only started because of injury.Well NFL Scouts do

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:50 PM
Poe played three full years... Ansah? 1.

That's even worse for Poe though to have that much lackluster tape and he still went 11th as a DT. Ansah is playing a more valued position too so it wouldn't surprise me to see a downtrodden team roll the dice on him. He could go real early 1st all the way to mid 1st. Just depends on how much work a team wants to invest in him.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 07:51 PM
Still think he is a more natural fit at 3-4 myself but he can be a really good 4-3 DE too. Just don't think he is the guy who will get 15+ sacks like you would expect from a highly drafted 4-3 DE. More around 7-12 sacks a season while providing elite run support. he may be better off as a 3-4 end. I think he is like Coples. He will be a better pass rusher against Guards. U stunt him or line him up inside on 3rd down. I think he will play the run Day 1

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:52 PM
Still think he is a more natural fit at 3-4 myself but he can be a really good 4-3 DE too. Just don't think he is the guy who will get 15+ sacks like you would expect from a highly drafted 4-3 DE. More around 7-12 sacks a season while providing elite run support.

I have read that he is not so great in run support especially on the edge,,and he lacks technique and stamina,,fatigues very easily,,,true? as per NFL.com

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 07:54 PM
Well NFL Scouts do

based solely on what he could be not what he is,,,as long as it's not ours I am fine with that, pass.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 07:55 PM
I have read that he is not so great in run support especially on the edge,,and he lacks technique and stamina,,fatigues very easily,,,true? as per NFL.com

You guys have to realize that he is so new to football. He used to play basketball and ran track primarily so one would assume his body is still adjusting to handling the load of a game with a huge amount of snaps. He's not going to come in on day 1 and own the league. Probably show some flashes and then maybe he becomes a force in year 2.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 07:56 PM
I have read that he is not so great in run support especially on the edge,,and he lacks technique and stamina,,fatigues very easily,,,true? as per NFL.com I love how U take what they write as the word of god and than ignore that they compare him to,Jason Taylor who was maybe the best DE of the 2000's

juice33s
01-26-2013, 07:57 PM
Exactly. People are blinded by the JPP comparisons. Ansah hasn't produced anything on the field and only has 4.5 more sacks in college than me! lol
Riddle me this...Who had only 4 sacks in his only season as a collge starter before blowing up at the Senior bowl and eventually being selected in the first round?....Clay Matthews

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 07:58 PM
STRENGTHS Combination of size, length, and foot speed is nearly unparalleled. Delivers solid first contact that jolts opponent back. Continues to press and locate ball carriers in the backfield. Consistently sheds at the line of scrimmage, envelopes his target with a strong grasp and outstanding closing burst. Flashes the complete package, specifically when rushing from the edge on passing downs. When lining up inside a natural anchor shows up, helped by low pad level off the snap. Burst off of extension is counter move, gains significant ground on target. Obvious coaching on technique is absorbed and implemented.
WEAKNESSES Has admitted to a lack of stamina. Fatigue is noticeable after a few plays of rushing the passer. In those circumstances, does not chase the play down from the backside, instead staying at the line of scrimmage to knock down the pass. Technique is not always there, specifically on the edge against the run. Frequently gives up the wrong arm or shoulder to blockers, takes himself out of the play. Hand fights at the line against the run rather than driving or penetrating to disrupt. A hit or miss player on the field but consistency is growing.
NFL COMPARISON Jason Taylor
BOTTOM LINE It is amazing how far Ansah’s technique has come in such a short amount of time, not to mention how much he has transformed his body to fit the role coaches want him to play. That sizable frame coupled with outstanding closing speed and natural power will captivate many, making a top-20 selection possible. Ansah is rough around the edges, but the number of height/weight/speed athletes with positional versatility selected in that area in recent years point to a rise up draft boards

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:03 PM
Whats funny everything negative is correctable with coaching. The positives like size ,length foot speed is unparalleled U cant coach that.

This is what is important

1. PHYSICAL Attributes
2. Coachable
3. Motor

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:04 PM
Jordan Poyer is a guy look at too.. I've had em ranked 2nd in personal rankings ahead of guys rated higher for sometimes now... A true athlets, as he was a baseball player at Org St as well, he makes plays on the ball, has ST value as returner, and can run with any WR in the league, and has great instincts..

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 08:05 PM
Who is the last guy to have no negatives anyway? Andrew Luck?

giantsfan420
01-26-2013, 08:07 PM
Like i've basically said all yr, if i needed a QB, the only one worth a snot is Geno Smith, and even then, its a risk, and i woulden't take Geno number1 overall.. Its a terrible class.. A couple possiblities there, but nothing special... I just don't like many of em, that much..wouldnt surprise me if 1 or fewer qbs gets taken rd 1

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:08 PM
Whats funny everything negative is correctable with coaching. The positives like size ,length foot speed is unparalleled U cant coach that.

This is what is important

1. PHYSICAL Attributes
2. Coachable
3. Motor Football Instincts would be head and shoulders number 1 for me.. First and foremost is he good at "fooball"? In Ansahs case, i say Yes...

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:08 PM
Whats funny everything negative is correctable with coaching. The positives like size ,length foot speed is unparalleled U cant coach that.

This is what is important

1. PHYSICAL Attributes
2. Coachable
3. Motor

sorry but you cant just look past the weakness',,some are very glaring,

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:08 PM
Who is the last guy to have no negatives anyway? Andrew Luck? It matters what the negatives are. U can tell the guy is coach able and he plays hard. His physical attributes are very good. U pay coaches to coach. U give them that they will be thrilled

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:09 PM
wouldnt surprise me if 1 or fewer qbs gets taken rd 1 I would be shocked.. Theres so many stupid teams that reach for ridiculous QB's instead of just wait for the right ones.. If theres guys like Glennon on board in Late 1st, a team will trade into 1st for em... I know its ridiculous, but its true..

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:09 PM
Football Instincts would be head and shoulders number 1 for me.. First and foremost is he good at "fooball"? In Ansahs case, i say Yes... ryan leaf was good at football,,but you said it in a nutshell..this kid does lack football instincts which can not be coached.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:10 PM
sorry but you cant just look past the weakness',,some are very glaring,.....workout warrior,,,pass. None of them cant be fixed dont see how u dont understand that. Players that fail like Gholston were slugs. Widely known he was lazy before the draft

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:11 PM
No way Kawaan Short goes into RD2.. Hes just to good, and has the right size as well. He gets behind that line with ease.. I think hes the most talented DT in this class not named Star....

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:11 PM
ryan leaf was good at football,,but you said it in a nutshell..this kid does lack football instincts which can not be coached. How do U know he lacks Football instincts it doesnt say it on your little scouting report

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:11 PM
None of them cant be fixed dont see how u dont understand that. Players that fail like Gholston were slugs. Widely known he was lazy before the draft

I undestand just fine,,,dont think he is the player you do,,which is also fine.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:12 PM
How do U know he lacks Football instincts it doesnt say it on your little scouting report

looks lost,,,routinely pushed around and out of plays,,sorry redeye,,,you think you know it all but you dont,,reality check.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:15 PM
looks lost,,,routinely pushed around and out of plays,,sorry redeye,,,you think you know it all but you dont,,reality check. At least we all know U can read well. When u can form your own opinions maybe I'll listen to them

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:19 PM
At least we all know U can read well. When u can form your own opinions maybe I'll listen to them

I could care less if you listen or not,,,what do you know? anybody can be spoon fed information. all you do is copy and paste videos and other peoples thoughts...the sad thing is your are affiliated with a draft website and not a good one at that.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:23 PM
I could care less if you listen or not,,,what do you know? anybody can be spoon fed information. all you do is copy and paste videos and other peoples thoughts...the sad thing is your are affiliated with a draft website and not a good one at that. Copy and paste? Its a lot more than copying and pasting I cut the games up. If im as clueless as u say I wonder why im Followed by every draft site including the 1's u think are better than Draftbreakdown

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:24 PM
Copy and paste? Its a lot more than copying and pasting I cut the games up. If im as clueless as u say I wonder why im Followed by every draft site including the better draft site

prove it.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:25 PM
prove it. Prove what Im on Twiitter go to my own youtube pages

TCHOF
01-26-2013, 08:26 PM
prove it.

Prove it? lol Are you 6?

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:27 PM
prove it. Redeye puts in mad work for those videos, u see his name everywhere including Youtube, draft sites, and everything.. Those videos are made by him, not copyed and pasted..lol Redeyes one of the best draft gurus on these boards, and a great contributor for yrs to the draft threads on these boards..

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 08:28 PM
This got a little too personal for my own tastes. C'mon guys...the draft section is better than this.

And I know Redeye's videos have been all over in the football atmosphere. It was his clip in the Joeckel Yahoo article after all.

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:30 PM
This got a little too personal for my own tastes. C'mon guys...the draft section is better than this.

And I know Redeye's videos have been all over in the football atmosphere. It was his clip in the Joeckel Yahoo article after all. Every once in awhile we get someone who dosen't like there opinions disagreed with and go into "rude" mode.. I like the people who can handle the critiscim and answer back with facts or more opinions without getting personal about it...

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:30 PM
Prove what Im on Twiitter go to my own youtube pages

lol,,,,,yeah,,,me too

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:31 PM
Redeye puts in mad work for those videos, u see his name everywhere including Youtube, draft sites, and everything.. Those videos are made by him, not copyed and pasted..lol Redeyes one of the best draft gurus on these boards, and a great contributor for yrs to the draft threads on these boards..I copy and paste some of them because we split up the games to maximum coverage. Last year almost all the videos were mine. Thats why I dont update the video page as much. We have so many people making them now

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:32 PM
This got a little too personal for my own tastes. C'mon guys...the draft section is better than this.

And I know Redeye's videos have been all over in the football atmosphere. It was his clip in the Joeckel Yahoo article after all.

so what? doesnt' mean he is an expert and this guy loves to force his "Knowledge" on people..I wasnt even talking to him when he chimmed in with his usual.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:33 PM
Redeye puts in mad work for those videos, u see his name everywhere including Youtube, draft sites, and everything.. Those videos are made by him, not copyed and pasted..lol Redeyes one of the best draft gurus on these boards, and a great contributor for yrs to the draft threads on these boards..

good for him,,still doesnt give him the right to push his opinions on people,,,fan forum,,remember?

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 08:34 PM
so what? doesnt' mean he is an expert and this guy loves to force his "Knowledge" on people..I wasnt even talking to him when he chimmed in with his usual. Nah, someone else on these boards is like that, but Redeye is mad respectful in his debating

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:34 PM
Every once in awhile we get someone who dosen't like there opinions disagreed with and go into "rude" mode.. I like the people who can handle the critiscim and answer back with facts or more opinions without getting personal about it...

not the case here,,this guy is just smug,,period. he got personal first,,sorry, but save it.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:35 PM
good for him,,still doesnt give him the right to push his opinions on people,,,fan forum,,remember? its a message board . Chime in LOL

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:35 PM
not the case here,,this guy is just smug,,period. he got personal first,,sorry, but save it. Funny u just think that

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 08:37 PM
so what? doesnt' mean he is an expert and this guy loves to force his "Knowledge" on people..I wasnt even talking to him when he chimmed in with his usual.

His videos have even been used by players (Eric Fisher watched tape prior to the Senior Bowl) and probably some scouts/coaches as well. Does it mean we take his work like he is Mike Mayock or Charles Davis? No but his word gets a little more respect than your average joe. Just reading his posts, he comes across with a good amount of knowledge and has put in the work watching a ton of tape to form an educated opinion.

You disagree with him about Ansah? That's fine but there's no need for the personal attacks.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:39 PM
Funny u just think that

some how I doubt that,,but good day to you redeye,,,,, in fact,,I have complimented you in the past,,,there was no need for the well i guess you can read comment,,,sorry,,that was smug and the only reason I continued,,just because I dont agree with you has nothing to do with whether I can read or not. I have nothing against you at all,,,truce.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 08:41 PM
I took a shot at him because off the scouting report he lists the weaknesses meanwhile on the same scouting report the NFL Scout compares Ansah to frickin Jason Taylor who is maybe the best DE of the last decade. Thats some serious tunnel vision

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:41 PM
His videos have even been used by players (Eric Fisher watched tape prior to the Senior Bowl) and probably some scouts/coaches as well. Does it mean we take his work like he is Mike Mayock or Charles Davis? No but his word gets a little more respect than your average joe. Just reading his posts, he comes across with a good amount of knowledge and has put in the work watching a ton of tape to form an educated opinion.

You disagree with him about Ansah? That's fine but there's no need for the personal attacks.

get it straight,,,I am not the one who started with the personal attacks,,I just did not take it which I guess is frowned upon.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 08:45 PM
get it straight,,,I am not the one who started with the personal attacks,,I just did not take it which I guess is frowned upon.

Should of clarified I meant no one person in particular. You're entitled to fire back but after awhile, you're no better than the initiator. Just my personal opinion on the subject.

Anyway, did E.J. Manuel enter the top 3 for QBs with that Senior Bowl Performance?

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:47 PM
I took a shot at him because off the scouting report he lists the weaknesses meanwhile on the same scouting report the NFL Scout compares Ansah to frickin Jason Taylor who is maybe the best DE of the last decade. Thats some serious tunnel vision

I simply disagreed with you, period. you took the first shot as you previously stated. this is kinda dumb,,,I am willing to call a truce.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 08:48 PM
Should of clarified I meant no one person in particular. You're entitled to fire back but after awhile, you're no better than the initiator. Just my personal opinion on the subject.

Anyway, did E.J. Manuel enter the top 3 for QBs with that Senior Bowl Performance?

I understand enigma and have nothing against anybody in here, I have in fact complimented you both from time to time.

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 09:00 PM
Should of clarified I meant no one person in particular. You're entitled to fire back but after awhile, you're no better than the initiator. Just my personal opinion on the subject.

Anyway, did E.J. Manuel enter the top 3 for QBs with that Senior Bowl Performance?i dont like any of the QB's in this draft. I feel bad for the GM's that have to draft 1 to save their job. Every time I watched EJ Manuel this season I thought he looked awful. The guy from NFLDraftMonster.com is real good with QB's. He was the first guy I heard talk about Tannehill as a top QB prospect thinks he is the best upside QB. I dont know, physically he is impressive but his decision making is awful. I couldnt take him in the first 3 round

Cool Papa B.
01-26-2013, 09:03 PM
i dont like any of the QB's in this draft. I feel bad for the GM's that have to draft 1 to save their job. Every time I watched EJ Manuel this season I thought he looked awful. The guy from NFLDraftMonster.com is real good with QB's. He was the first guy I heard talk about Tannehill as a top QB prospect thinks he is the best upside QB. I dont know, physically he is impressive but his decision making is awful. I couldnt take him in the first 3 rounds

How did Ryan Nassib look today? I have a feeling Philly or KC will draft him.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 09:04 PM
How did Ryan Nassib look today? I have a feeling Philly or KC will draft him.

what about buffalo?

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 09:05 PM
Just saw on Twitter Derek Dooley was hired as the Cowboys WR coach. Tyler Bray?

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 09:07 PM
How did Ryan Nassib look today? I have a feeling Philly or KC will draft him. I thought he looked pretty bad but this isnt the easiest type of events for QB's. They dont know these receivers the timing is all off

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 09:08 PM
I simply disagreed with you, period. you took the first shot as you previously stated. this is kinda dumb,,,I am willing to call a truce. Okay

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 09:11 PM
Okay

and I must say,,you are knowledgeable and I do enjoy your videos,,you do a great job, just so you know that.

TheEnigma
01-26-2013, 09:11 PM
i dont like any of the QB's in this draft. I feel bad for the GM's that have to draft 1 to save their job. Every time I watched EJ Manuel this season I thought he looked awful. The guy from NFLDraftMonster.com is real good with QB's. He was the first guy I heard talk about Tannehill as a top QB prospect thinks he is the best upside QB. I dont know, physically he is impressive but his decision making is awful. I couldnt take him in the first 3 round

None of these QBs deserve to be taken in the 1st round but it wouldn't surprise me if Reid took Geno Smith with the 1st pick thinking he could make him McNabb 2.0 He's been very successful with QBs so I'm sure he is extremely confident in his ability to "transform" him. As for Manuel, he has good physical attributes to play QB in the NFL but I think he needs 2+ years of development on the bench and with the clipboard behind an experienced veteran.


what about buffalo?

The new HC is from Syracuse so I'd imagine Nassib is on their radar in some fashion. Could be a darkhorse candidtate for a good rookie year in that scenario due to the familiarity of the offensive system.

nycsportzfan
01-26-2013, 09:16 PM
i dont like any of the QB's in this draft. I feel bad for the GM's that have to draft 1 to save their job. Every time I watched EJ Manuel this season I thought he looked awful. The guy from NFLDraftMonster.com is real good with QB's. He was the first guy I heard talk about Tannehill as a top QB prospect thinks he is the best upside QB. I dont know, physically he is impressive but his decision making is awful. I couldnt take him in the first 3 round I dont even think Tannehill is anything special.. I'm not sold hes gonna be even as good as he was last yr going forward, which wasen't exceptional or anything, and hes injury prone.. Verdict very much still out on Tannehill...

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 09:17 PM
I've barely cut any QB games this year. Last season I cut a ton. I think I cut 10 of Lucks games , 7 each of Griffin and Tannehill. I think the most I cut was Tyler Bray 3 or 4 games. Next years QB class couldbe real bad 2. Dark horses Mariotta is eligible so is Hundley the QB from UCLA

Cool Papa B.
01-26-2013, 09:21 PM
what about buffalo?

I read somewhere that Buffalo might be interested in him, but IMO that doesn't make sense. They gave Ryan Fitzpatrick a pretty big contract last year so unless they are willing to pay Fitz and Nassib I can't see them drafting another QB with their first pick.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 09:40 PM
prove it.

Hey chill out. Redeye has more insight than some of us, cause he cuts up the games on tape and goes through alot of them. you are being that guy!

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 09:47 PM
Hey chill out. Redeye has more insight than some of us, cause he cuts up the games on tape and goes through alot of them. you are being that guy!

Thanks , but its cool man , its over

Kase-1
01-26-2013, 09:49 PM
A few guys from CT looked good today, a cb and lb i believe.

Lane Johnson looked ok, 2nd round worthy.

Ziggy Ansah looked ridiculous

Missed the 1st half but Rambo wasnt too bad. 3rd rounder maybe??

Winters looked pretty decent today too, not amazing

Redeyejedi
01-26-2013, 10:06 PM
A few guys from CT looked good today, a cb and lb i believe.

Lane Johnson looked ok, 2nd round worthy.

Ziggy Ansah looked ridiculous

Missed the 1st half but Rambo wasnt too bad. 3rd rounder maybe??

Winters looked pretty decent today too, not amazing

Rambo has deep safety ability. It will depend on how he interviews how high he goes. Is a high - mid 2nd round player just from game tape

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 10:49 PM
wouldnt surprise me if 1 or fewer qbs gets taken rd 1
Huh? Even If they sucked today, It is still not outside of the realm reality that KC takes a QB and depending on who they take we might see two go in the first 5 picks.
i.e - KC - Geno / Phi - Manuel
and bet on it that someone in the first takes a flyer on Barkley.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 10:54 PM
Huh? Even If they sucked today, It is still not outside of the realm reality that KC takes a QB and depending on who they take we might see two go in the first 5 picks.
i.e - KC - Geno / Phi - Manuel
and bet on it that someone in the first takes a flyer on Barkley.

I am hoping a few go in the 1st because that means a talent like prince a few years back mat fall to us. not saying a CB, you know what I mean,,I think.

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 11:03 PM
I am hoping a few go in the 1st because that means a talent like prince a few years back mat fall to us. not saying a CB, you know what I mean,,I think.
Yeah I hear what your saying. If it plays out the way I hope KC/Phi/Arizona and possible Buff take knee jerk dives on some of these OB's, kind of like red said "GM's doing it to save their jobs." that should hopefully push back some great picks to us at 19.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 11:06 PM
Yeah I hear what your saying. If it plays out the way I hope KC/Phi/Arizona and possible Buff take knee jerk dives on some of these OB's, kind of like red said "GM's doing it to save their jobs." that should hopefully push back some great picks to us at 19.

do you think if milliner for some reason made it to mid round the giants might move up? or do they stay put if the guy they had realistically being there is still there?

rainierjef
01-26-2013, 11:08 PM
do you think if milliner for some reason made it to mid round the giants might move up? or do they stay put if the guy they had realistically being there is still there? Nah reese is somewhat stingy with his picks and rightfully so. if its not to move back for more picks, I don't see him moving up too expensive and we have so many needs to address.

ELI_HOF_NYG
01-26-2013, 11:09 PM
Nah reese is somewhat stingy with his picks and rightfully so. if its not to move back for more picks, I don't see him moving up too expensive and we have so many needs to address.

I hope this draft is a home run

Sundown
01-27-2013, 01:20 AM
What's the word on Vince Williams from Florida st? Looked pretty good at MLB

BlueSanta
01-27-2013, 07:04 AM
What's the word on Vince Williams from Florida st? Looked pretty good at MLB 1 report said he was easily the best performing Lb of the Sb week. Personally, I think this kid is a good football player. Anyone who watched the FSU bowl game vs N Illinois got to see 1st hand how mobile and physical this kid is. He ate up Jordan Lynch and his option system. It was real eye openner of a game for me.

penguinfarmer
01-27-2013, 07:33 AM
I like Vince Williams. Sure, he had a great line in front of him, but he sure could cover a lot of ground at 250. I personally love what I saw from him against Virginia Tech.

Redeyejedi
01-27-2013, 08:47 AM
do you think if milliner for some reason made it to mid round the giants might move up? or do they stay put if the guy they had realistically being there is still there? We dont know how high he is on the Giants board. Maybe they think Xavier Rhodes or Banks is the best corner in the draft or maybe they dont see that much of a difference between the top guys. U would hope if they thought Milliner was by far better than everyone else and a Top 3 player in the entire draft they would try to get him. In the 2010 Draft Reese said JPP was #5 or #6 overall on the Giants board and they got him at 15. If u believe him than U get some insight because they didnt move up in that case. Although again we dont know all of the variables maybe they didnt move up because maybe with 3 picks to go 5.6.7 on the board were all there so they thought they were going to win no matter what. Basically I have no clue and Im just ranting

nycsportzfan
01-27-2013, 10:01 AM
Stock UP and Stock DOWN according to walterfootball from Sr Bowl.... Make sure u read Michael Mauti's stock up paragraph...



2013 Senior Bowl: NFL Draft Stock Up

Robert Alford, CB/KR, SE Louisiana
One of the great things about the Senior Bowl is seeing small-school prospects like Robert Alford go up against BCS prospects. Alford took advantage of the opportunity, shining as one of the top cornerbacks in practice. He also had a 95-yard kickoff return to open the game and then made some nice pass break-ups and picked off Zac Dysert on a two-point conversion attempt. There's now a chance that Alford will be picked in the second round, and it's difficult to imagine him getting into Day 3.

Ezekiel Ansah, DE/OLB, BYU
Ezekiel Ansah was just OK in the Senior Bowl practices because he was thinking too much. He stopped thinking and just played during the game, and the result was a dominant performance. Ansah destroyed every lineman he went up against. He put tons of pressure on the quarterbacks and stopped ball-carriers for minimal gains (or losses). He also recorded a strip-sack of Ryan Nassib. Ansah was awesome, and there's a good chance he'll be taken as high as ninth overall in the 2013 NFL Draft. I currently have him going to the Giants in my 2013 NFL Mock Draft, but it's doubtful that he's getting there now.

Jonathan Cyprien, S, Florida International
Jonathan Cyprien had a great week in Mobile. He stood out in the practices then made several great plays during the game. He may have sneaked into third-round consideration.

Eric Fisher, OT, Central Michigan
Eric Fisher made tons of money during Senior Bowl week. It all started with Mike Mayock proclaiming that Fisher could challenge Texas A&M's Luke Joeckel to be the No. 1 tackle off the board. Fisher then won almost all of his one-on-one reps against the top pass-rushers during the practices. That trend continued during the game. Fisher won't go any lower than No. 11 on Draft Day, and he could go as high as No. 4 to the Eagles.






Jonathan Franklin, RB, UCLA
Jonathan Franklin rushed for a North team-high 41 yards on just five carries in the Senior Bowl. He received some nice blocks, particularly from guard Hugh Thornton, but he showed great patience on many of his carries.

Mike Gillislee, RB, Florida
As Charlie Campbell wrote, "One scout who has had success finding running backs is a fan of Gators running back Mike Gillislee. He believes that Gillislee could reward the team that drafts him with the ability to play on all three downs. The scout said that Gillislee is a good worker who really prepared himself well in the weight room for the 2012 season when he finally had a chance to be the starter with Chris Rainey and Jeff Demps out of Gainesville." Gillislee showed great running ability during the game, rushing for 46 yards on 10 carries.

Marquise Goodwin, WR/KR, Texas
Marquise Goodwin impressed with his speed in Mobile. He's drawn some comparisons to Mike Wallace. Goodwin, who hauled in five receptions for 43 yards during the game, may sneak into Day 2.

Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma
Lane Johnson went into Senior Bowl week as a fringe first-round prospect, but he definitely solidified that standing with a great performance in Mobile. He's not sound as Eric Fisher, but he moves his feet extremely well for his position and possesses tons of upside. There's a good chance he now gets taken off the board in the 16-24 range.





Datone Jones, DE, UCLA
Datone Jones had a great week. He was one of the top defensive linemen in the drills and made some great plays during the game. Unfortunately, some teams are befuddled by what to do with him because he has no real natural position at the next level.

E.J. Manuel, QB, Florida State
E.J. Manuel was the top quarterback in the Senior Bowl, leading the South team to all 21 of its points. Manuel, who went 7-of-10 for 76 yards, one touchdown and an interception, dropped in a beautiful touch pass to Michael Williams for a 20-yard score. He also rushed four times for 10 yards on the ground and a second touchdown. The pick wasn't his fault; it came on a tip on a fourth down, so the South squad would have given up possession anyway. Mike Mayock said that he was hearing third- and fourth-round grades for Manuel, which means the Florida State product will be going in Rounds 2-3 because quarterbacks are usually chosen earlier than anticipated.

Michael Mauti, ILB, Penn State
Michael Mauti isn't at the Senior Bowl because of a knee injury, but he's getting a stock up for sending a handwritten note to every single NFL general manager during the week about how much football means to him. Most general managers were reportedly impressed. Mauti is a great leader and will prove to be a mid-round steal.

Quinton Patton, WR, Louisiana Tech
Quinton Patton earned the Senior Bowl practice award for the top receiver in Mobile. He was easily the best wideout on the South team during practice, showing off his excellent route-running ability. He also blocked well during the game, though he didn't register a reception. This was a pleasant surprise; he was slotted in the fourth round of my recent 2013 NFL Mock Draft, but he could be making a second-round appearance soon.







David Quessenberry, OT/G/C, San Jose State
David Quessenberry, a former tight end, showed off his athleticism at the Senior Bowl. He won most of his one-on-one battles. Even better, he showed that he can play all five positions on the offensive line, including center. He figures to be chosen on Day 2 this April.

Brian Schwenke, C/G, California
One of Mike Mayock's favorite prospects, Brian Schwenke lived up to the NFL Draft analyst's hype. Schwenke used his quickness to beat opposing defensive linemen in the one-on-one drills. Schwenke has experience in guard, so teams will like his versatility.

Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
There were a number of impressive corners in Mobile. Desmond Trufant was the best of the group. He routinely shut down receivers in the one-on-ones, which is more difficult than it already sounds since the wideout has the advantage in those drills. Multiple scouts and sources have indicated that Trufant will be chosen in the first round. He'll be there in the next edition of my 2013 NFL Mock Draft.

Larry Warford, G, Kentucky
Larry Warford is a beast. He had a dominant week at the Senior Bowl, rarely getting beat in the one-on-ones in practice. He also had a massive block to open up a big running lane for Mike Gillislee during the game. He solidified his second-round status.

Markus Wheaton, WR, Oregon State
Markus Wheaton was one of the top receivers in Mobile. He showed off his speed, which complements his size well. He also made several spectacular catches, beating most receivers not named Marcus Trufant in the one-on-one battles. Wheaton had four receptions for 48 yards in the game.

J.J. Wilcox, S, Georgia Southern
J.J. Wilcox is one of a few small-school prospects to step up during Senior Bowl week. Despite weighing 215 pounds, Wilcox displayed impressive feet during practice. He has a shot at being drafted in the third round.

Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern
Brandon Williams was one of the top defensive linemen at the Senior Bowl. Like Robert Alford, Williams showed off his ability and dominated BCS competition. The consensus is that Williams has entered second-round territory; players with massive bodies (6-2, 340) who can move as well as Williams are a rare commodity.

Michael Williams, TE, Alabama
Michael Williams, a 270-pound tight end, showed receiving ability during the game when he beat USC safety T.J. McDonald down the field for a 20-yard touchdown. Williams made two grabs for a South team-high 39 yards.







2013 Senior Bowl: NFL Draft Stock Down

Oday Aboushi, G/OT, Virginia
Oday Aboushi struggled in Mobile. He looked slow when trying to block in the one-on-one drills. He was also whistled for a penalty during the game. He'll have to move inside to guard because he's just not athletic enough to be outside.

Braxston Cave, C, Notre Dame
Braxston Cave was the interior lineman who struggled the most at Mobile. He didn't look good in the one-on-ones at all. He's probably a late-round pick.

Nico Johnson, LB, Alabama
Nico Johnson struggled in coverage during the Senior Bowl practices. He reportedly is being pegged as a two-down linebacker in the NFL.

Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma
Landry Jones was absolutely abysmal in the game, going just 3-of-10 for 16 yards. He often checks the ball down and feels phantom pressure in the pocket. He's so rattled by pass-rushers that he sometimes doesn't look downfield. Jones may not be draftable.

Robert Lester, S, Alabama
Robert Lester was a huge disappointment during Senior Bowl week. He frequently struggled in coverage during practice, making some believe that he was just a product of a great supporting cast in Alabama. That carried over into the game when he was beaten on a Mike Glennon deep pass down the seam.

Ryan Nassib, QB, Syracuse
As Charlie Campbell noted earlier during the week in his Senior Bowl Rumors post, scouts were disappointed with Ryan Nassib all week. DraftCountdown's Shane Hallam agreed: "Struggled all week at planting his front foot and driving the ball even when coached individually about it." This carried over into the game, as Nassib made a poor decision and tossed a pick following a low snap. Nassib did nothing positive of note, finishing 4-of-10 for 44 yards and the interception.

Justin Pugh, G/OT, Syracuse
Scouts were extremely disappointed by Justin Pugh's 31-inch arms at the weigh-in. Pugh went on to surrender a strip-sack to Georgia's Cornelius Washington during the game. The consensus is that Pugh will have to play guard in the NFL.

Chase Thomas, DE/OLB, Stanford
Chase Thomas was one of the most disappointing players at the Senior Bowl. He was destroyed on a Hugh Thornton block on a Jonathan Franklin rushing touchdown. Thomas may have entered Round 4-5 range.

Ricky Wagner, OT, Wisconsin
Ricky Wagner had a miserable performance in the Senior Bowl. He was beaten repeatedly by a variety of pass-rushers. He should have been whistled for a blatant hold on one occasion.

Tyler Wilson, QB, Arkansas
Tyler Wilson looked like a right-handed version of Matt Leinart in the Senior Bowl. He spent most of his time checking down, and his one deep attempt died in the air and was nearly picked off. This was only one throw, but scouts already had reservations about his deep ball heading into the Senior Bowl, so this only validated their concerns. It's tough to imagine Wilson going in the first round now. He finished 8-of-11, but for only 39 yards.

TCHOF
01-27-2013, 10:44 AM
Thanks nycsportzfan . . . .nice read

Redeyejedi
01-27-2013, 10:59 AM
For all the talk how great Wisconsin lineman are, Every time I cut a tape of a high level DL prospect against them, They get abused.
A lot of people on Twitter want to rip the QB's but these events are really hard on them. Timing is everything for a QB and in 3 days of practices how are they supposed to find that. Mobile QB's that can adlib like Manuel have a huge advantage over drop back pocket passers in this environment.

I dont get why Datone Jones doesnt have a position looks like a 5 tech to me. Basically the same size of Quinton Coples.I like his tape. Ive been going through the Nebraska and Rice games the last 2 days. Probably will do the Houston game 2 because it says he caught a TD pass and I would really like to see that. Jones looks like he could be a beast of an inside pass rusher in the NFL. The Giants have lacked an interior pass rushing presence for a few seasons now. Justin Tuck inside used to be the best thing the defense had going for it.

Sundown
01-27-2013, 11:09 AM
1 report said he was easily the best performing Lb of the Sb week. Personally, I think this kid is a good football player. Anyone who watched the FSU bowl game vs N Illinois got to see 1st hand how mobile and physical this kid is. He ate up Jordan Lynch and his option system. It was real eye openner of a game for me.


I like Vince Williams. Sure, he had a great line in front of him, but he sure could cover a lot of ground at 250. I personally love what I saw from him against Virginia Tech.

Thanks for the info gentlemen, ill keep an eye on him during the combine.

nycsportzfan
01-27-2013, 11:40 AM
Thanks nycsportzfan . . . .nice read No problem! Cool that Mauti is writing teams letting them know how much football means to em, ey? THat kid is worth a flier in mid rds, and u can tell how much he loves the game in his play on the field...

nycsportzfan
01-27-2013, 11:42 AM
For all the talk how great Wisconsin lineman are, Every time I cut a tape of a high level DL prospect against them, They get abused.
A lot of people on Twitter want to rip the QB's but these events are really hard on them. Timing is everything for a QB and in 3 days of practices how are they supposed to find that. Mobile QB's that can adlib like Manuel have a huge advantage over drop back pocket passers in this environment.

I dont get why Datone Jones doesnt have a position looks like a 5 tech to me. Basically the same size of Quinton Coples.I like his tape. Ive been going through the Nebraska and Rice games the last 2 days. Probably will do the Houston game 2 because it says he caught a TD pass and I would really like to see that. Jones looks like he could be a beast of an inside pass rusher in the NFL. The Giants have lacked an interior pass rushing presence for a few seasons now. Justin Tuck inside used to be the best thing the defense had going for it. Ya, Datone Jones has verstaility which will intrigue Reese, and he'll probably think back to us being at our best in nascar package with tuck beasting from DT positon, i would think..

I just mocked Datone JOnes to us in the 2nd rd the other day, and the more i learned and saw, he was growing on me, well before this sr bowl week, as was Mallichiah Goodman... I want mad versatility in this draft, to help out with injuries, which are destined to come down on Giants, as it always does...

TheEnigma
01-27-2013, 12:46 PM
I dont get why Datone Jones doesnt have a position looks like a 5 tech to me. Basically the same size of Quinton Coples.I like his tape. Ive been going through the Nebraska and Rice games the last 2 days. Probably will do the Houston game 2 because it says he caught a TD pass and I would really like to see that. Jones looks like he could be a beast of an inside pass rusher in the NFL. The Giants have lacked an interior pass rushing presence for a few seasons now. Justin Tuck inside used to be the best thing the defense had going for it.

Dion Jordan is probably the only guy in the draft I'd say doesn't have a natural position. You could easily stick Jones in a 4-3 on the edge or a 3-4 taking advantage of guards in passing situations. Lots of defenses these days switch between the two schemes more often than they did in the past and versatile Dlinemen have seen their stock increase as a result.

I think when scouts say they don't know where to use a player just sort of translates into "we're too lazy to make this kid work" Just my two cents though.

nycsportzfan
01-27-2013, 03:14 PM
Dion Jordan is probably the only guy in the draft I'd say doesn't have a natural position. You could easily stick Jones in a 4-3 on the edge or a 3-4 taking advantage of guards in passing situations. Lots of defenses these days switch between the two schemes more often than they did in the past and versatile Dlinemen have seen their stock increase as a result.

I think when scouts say they don't know where to use a player just sort of translates into "we're too lazy to make this kid work" Just my two cents though. Good post.

rainierjef
01-27-2013, 03:18 PM
Nico looked god awful, he looked lost sometimes, he got caught up in the crowd and was unable to locate the ball carriers was not instinctual. He dropped himself to 5th round I believe, and like i said earlier in the post, makes a strong case for most on here why some are so high on minter.

TheEnigma
01-27-2013, 03:37 PM
Nico looked god awful, he looked lost sometimes, he got caught up in the crowd and was unable to locate the ball carriers was not instinctual. He dropped himself to 5th round I believe, and like i said earlier in the post, makes a strong case for most on here why some are so high on minter.

Nico could make a good future ST captain (I don't mean that in a degrading way) and a quality depth player but he just doesn't "pop" as a starter to me in the NFL.

Redeyejedi
01-27-2013, 05:03 PM
Dion Jordan is probably the only guy in the draft I'd say doesn't have a natural position. You could easily stick Jones in a 4-3 on the edge or a 3-4 taking advantage of guards in passing situations. Lots of defenses these days switch between the two schemes more often than they did in the past and versatile Dlinemen have seen their stock increase as a result.

I think when scouts say they don't know where to use a player just sort of translates into "we're too lazy to make this kid work" Just my two cents though. Dion Jordan is a very hard player to project. Kinda of tough thing to say if this guy gains 30 pounds and learns how to rush the passer he can be a 4-3 end. A lot of people like him as a LB and I get it he is pretty fluid but how many LB's are that tall and play in space in the NFL. Its pretty neat to see a 6'6 DE line up as a Boundary corner but is that really going to be an option in the NFL. He is interesting but Im hoping the Giants go another way

Buddy333
01-27-2013, 06:27 PM
Wonder if the Giants would trade up into the top ten. What would it take to do so?

nycsportzfan
01-27-2013, 08:37 PM
Wonder if the Giants would trade up into the top ten. What would it take to do so? It'd be a bad idea, with 75underclassmen out there for the pickings.. SO many guys who are better then where there ranking say, but came out a yr early.. Trading away picks for anyone in this draft would be silly in my opinion. Just to many guys we don't know where they'd of been if they went back to school for another yr to go for 1guy, who could be a bust anyhow...

Redeyejedi
01-27-2013, 08:44 PM
Wonder if the Giants would trade up into the top ten. What would it take to do so? 2nd round pick to move up 9 spots

slipknottin
01-27-2013, 09:10 PM
Wonder if the Giants would trade up into the top ten. What would it take to do so?

This draft really has no blue chip guys, strength of this draft is really the depth in the first three, possibly four, rounds.

tonyt830
01-27-2013, 09:12 PM
No problem! Cool that Mauti is writing teams letting them know how much football means to em, ey? THat kid is worth a flier in mid rds, and u can tell how much he loves the game in his play on the field...Thanks for the write up nyc! I am starting to get into the offseason some a little more every day. I was kind of sour the way the last part of our season ended.

But thats the past now, no reason to dwell on it. But I am not the best of mock drafters, I tend to overrate or underrate when I try to make mock drafts. I was impressed though with Trufant though yesterday. He showed some good hustle to catch that kid from SE Louisiana. I see that you mentioned that he may go in the 1st rd. I was thinking he would be a great 2nd rd pick, but from the way I read it, he may not be there when we draft on the 2nd.


I think I heard Mayock mention yesterday that hypothetically Fisher made himself 4 million dollars this past week in Mobile. He was basing that on the difference in salaries between last years 10th pick(Gilmore) and the 20th pick(Wright).

I would not be upset with taking Lane Johnson, Trufant in the later 1st rd or if lucky, when we select in the 2nd rd. Maybe the Giants can trade back from 19 and pick up an extra pick, 3rd maybe?

myles2424
01-28-2013, 12:44 AM
Thanks for the write up nyc! I am starting to get into the offseason some a little more every day. I was kind of sour the way the last part of our season ended.

But thats the past now, no reason to dwell on it. But I am not the best of mock drafters, I tend to overrate or underrate when I try to make mock drafts. I was impressed though with Trufant though yesterday. He showed some good hustle to catch that kid from SE Louisiana. I see that you mentioned that he may go in the 1st rd. I was thinking he would be a great 2nd rd pick, but from the way I read it, he may not be there when we draft on the 2nd.


I think I heard Mayock mention yesterday that hypothetically Fisher made himself 4 million dollars this past week in Mobile. He was basing that on the difference in salaries between last years 10th pick(Gilmore) and the 20th pick(Wright).

I would not be upset with taking Lane Johnson, Trufant in the later 1st rd or if lucky, when we select in the 2nd rd. Maybe the Giants can trade back from 19 and pick up an extra pick, 3rd maybe?
I always thought Trufant was a 1st round pick & only thing that would've changed that would be a crappy combine.....I'm not sure why some thought we'd have a chance on him in the 3rd....I'm all for trading back if there's no clear cut BPA at 19

Redeyejedi
01-28-2013, 09:14 AM
I always thought Trufant was a 1st round pick & only thing that would've changed that would be a crappy combine.....I'm not sure why some thought we'd have a chance on him in the 3rd....I'm all for trading back if there's no clear cut BPA at 19 I a havent watched enough of Trufant this year to say either way. I was thinking yesterday I havent watched enough Pac 12 besides Oregon this season. Im about to where Id like to be on UCLA. I like to see at least 6 games each season of a player

nycsportzfan
01-28-2013, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the write up nyc! I am starting to get into the offseason some a little more every day. I was kind of sour the way the last part of our season ended.

But thats the past now, no reason to dwell on it. But I am not the best of mock drafters, I tend to overrate or underrate when I try to make mock drafts. I was impressed though with Trufant though yesterday. He showed some good hustle to catch that kid from SE Louisiana. I see that you mentioned that he may go in the 1st rd. I was thinking he would be a great 2nd rd pick, but from the way I read it, he may not be there when we draft on the 2nd.


I think I heard Mayock mention yesterday that hypothetically Fisher made himself 4 million dollars this past week in Mobile. He was basing that on the difference in salaries between last years 10th pick(Gilmore) and the 20th pick(Wright).

I would not be upset with taking Lane Johnson, Trufant in the later 1st rd or if lucky, when we select in the 2nd rd. Maybe the Giants can trade back from 19 and pick up an extra pick, 3rd maybe? THanks my friend! Ya, actually tony, i mentioned Lane Johnson could go in the first and i thought Jordan Poyer was a borderline 1st rd pick(for basically this whole season), and as much as i liked Desmond Trufant, who i'd see a few times this yr, and really loved, ever since the stanford game, i never thought he was a 1st, just not as far down as most had em in the mid 3rd.. Hes made some money over the past wk though, thats for sure.. Should be slam dunk 2nd rder, with chance to go very early 2nd..

nycsportzfan
01-28-2013, 10:19 AM
This draft really has no blue chip guys, strength of this draft is really the depth in the first three, possibly four, rounds.Agreed.. 75underclassmen with all the other Sr's, and u got a deep talented draft with tons of future 1st rd picks going in rds 2-4.. No way u can trade away valuable picks for guys who don't stand out, as being head and sholders above..

miked1958
01-28-2013, 10:47 AM
Nico could make a good future ST captain (I don't mean that in a degrading way) and a quality depth player but he just doesn't "pop" as a starter to me in the NFL.I was at the game and it seemed like he played a whole lot and was always around the ball. only made 3 solo and 1 assist but dont know if i totally agree on him. Lester seemed to be in a lot to but agree on his accessment.

miked1958
01-28-2013, 10:47 AM
Milner is a Stud and will not be there when we pick. if giants what him they will have to trade up

miked1958
01-28-2013, 10:54 AM
Milner is a Stud and will not be there when we pick. if giants what him they will have to trade up

BlueSabbath
01-28-2013, 11:04 AM
Nico looked god awful, he looked lost sometimes, he got caught up in the crowd and was unable to locate the ball carriers was not instinctual. He dropped himself to 5th round I believe, and like i said earlier in the post, makes a strong case for most on here why some are so high on minter.

5th is where I had him mocked before this game. I'm not sure why it makes a case for Minter (who didn't play)... I think Minter would struggle just as bad as Nico in coverage. I think they'd both be good against the run and have big question marks in coverage. One you can just get much later. Minter is at least better at what they're both good at but I don't think Minter will really upgrade our defense enough to take him in the first like some have projected.

BlueSabbath
01-29-2013, 03:08 PM
Turns out Nico Johnson was practicing and playing with a sports hernia. He was putting off surgery until after the senior bowl.

myles2424
01-29-2013, 05:23 PM
5th is where I had him mocked before this game. I'm not sure why it makes a case for Minter (who didn't play)... I think Minter would struggle just as bad as Nico in coverage. I think they'd both be good against the run and have big question marks in coverage. One you can just get much later. Minter is at least better at what they're both good at but I don't think Minter will really upgrade our defense enough to take him in the first like some have projected.
plenty of scouts disagree with you about minter....

BlueSabbath
01-29-2013, 05:42 PM
plenty of scouts disagree with you about minter....

There are scouts saying Minter is good in coverage? Who?

BlueSabbath
01-29-2013, 05:53 PM
Here's an analysis from NFL.com:

Weaknesses Occasionally overruns misdirection and draw plays, gives up inside shoulder. Lacks desirable range in coverage because of lost ground when forced to open up hips, turn, and run. Fast enough in a straight line, but lateral speed may be a question. Despite good angles, likely won't win a foot race to the edge. Too flat footed on play action and misdirection, but at least that prohibits wasted steps. Does not show the quickness to get to screen as or soon after the ball arrives despite seeing it early on. Sees pass and reacts to it in coverage, but doesn't move any sooner. Bottom Line He might only have one full season int he starting lineup, but Minter was easily the most consistent defender on a very talented LSU defense during the 2012 season. The junior fills lanes with force and takes great angles to work through trash while finishing tackles authoritatively. Some evaluators may have a concern with his lateral speed since Minter seemed to reach running backs with just enough time to spare, not to mention his tendency to lose ground when forced to open his hips and drop in coverage. Minter's toughness against the run, specifically between the tackles, and reliable angles will likely land him in the top 64 picks.

myles2424
01-29-2013, 06:43 PM
There are scouts saying Minter is good in coverage? Who?

was reffering to your assesment of him not being worth a 1st & being as bad as nico in coverage

BlueSabbath
01-29-2013, 07:13 PM
was reffering to your assesment of him not being worth a 1st & being as bad as nico in coverage

Gotcha.. well, I'm sure there will be some that think he is worth a first round pick... and maybe he is for some defenses (and possibly ours).. I wouldn't be disappointed with him as a first round pick if some other guys were gone, I just don't think a MLB that is good against the run with bad hips is necessarily what we need the most. Like I said though, he is definitely REALLY good at what he does best and I've said many times I want a physical, intimidating linebacker in the middle and I do think Minter could be that. Just not sure he's the right guy for us at #19.

rainierjef
01-30-2013, 12:41 AM
Minter is okay in coverage he is definitely better in coverage than nico. He is way more instinctual. And that matters more in a MLB

G-Men Surg.
01-30-2013, 01:14 AM
Minter is okay in coverage he is definitely better in coverage than nico. He is way more instinctual. And that matters more in a MLB

Agree but are you willing to spend a 2 nd round on Minter or even a 1st ? I mention a 1st round because its possible he could be gone when Giants turn comes up in the 2nd .

myles2424
01-30-2013, 01:28 AM
Agree but are you willing to spend a 2 nd round on Minter or even a 1st ? I mention a 1st round because its possible he could be gone when Giants turn comes up in the 2nd .
God forbid we take a SEC LB with 130 tackles,15tfl,4sacks & captain of the team in the 2nd round......we should definetly go for more of a goff,wilkinson,kiehl,sintim,Dillard type.....

G-Men Surg.
01-30-2013, 01:54 AM
God forbid we take a SEC LB with 130 tackles,15tfl,4sacks & captain of the team in the 2nd round......we should definetly go for more of a goff,wilkinson,kiehl,sintim,Dillard type.....
I'm sorry but not enough value IMO to take him in the 1st round and I'm willing to bet my house Reese sees it that way too, only pointing out he probably isn't going to be available for us in the 2nd . Is he the BPA at 19 th ? Please bro ! Not even close .

myles2424
01-30-2013, 02:27 AM
I'm sorry but not enough value IMO to take him in the 1st round and I'm willing to bet my house Reese sees it that way too, only pointing out he probably isn't going to be available for us in the 2nd . Is he the BPA at 19 th ? Please bro ! Not even close .

Was referring to you asking if we'd take him in the 2nd

rainierjef
01-30-2013, 02:35 AM
Agree but are you willing to spend a 2 nd round on Minter or even a 1st ? I mention a 1st round because its possible he could be gone when Giants turn comes up in the 2nd .
Yeah I most definitely feel Minter is a first round talent, honestly the only way I take him is if we trade back to a later spot in the 1st. I don't think his value is great at 19.

G-Men Surg.
01-30-2013, 02:38 AM
Was referring to you asking if we'd take him in the 2nd
That's precisely my point if you read all the way thru. Little chance that he will be available for us in the 2nd round. If by any chance he is still there then the value/need fills sthe blank. That been said is Reese seeing the same draft board or more importantly is Reese going to be true to his word of drafting BPA in each round ?

G-Men Surg.
01-30-2013, 02:47 AM
Yeah I most definitely feel Minter is a first round talent, honestly the only way I take him is if we trade back to a later spot in the 1st. I don't think his value is great at 19.
Well that could be an answer to your question but even if you do how much are you willing to go down with our reaching. Minter is climbing in some Mocks but his value as a prospect hasn't change still hanging in the mid 30's in top 100 prospect.

TCHOF
01-30-2013, 07:23 AM
Well that could be an answer to your question but even if you do how much are you willing to go down with our reaching. Minter is climbing in some Mocks but his value as a prospect hasn't change still hanging in the mid 30's in top 100 prospect.

Always beware of guys who climb in mocks when no football is being played . . . .

BlueSanta
01-30-2013, 07:37 AM
Always beware of guys who climb in mocks when no football is being played . . . .

You mean like JPP?

Redeyejedi
01-30-2013, 09:37 AM
Always beware of guys who climb in mocks when no football is being played . . . . The only thing with that is In my personal rankings for instance I have watched more games of some guys than others so when I catch up over the off season my rankings will change. Its physically impossibe for me to watch all the games during the season. I watch most of the games in fact when the season is over. Same thing with the guys doing the mock drafts. Also postseason performances shed light on some guys that werent focused on as much during the season. People than go back and look at more of the games. Jacquian Williams for instance. I knew the name but it wasnt till after the Giants drafted him I went back and looked at him more closely and was upset I missed him. There are so many teams and so many games its easy for guys to slip through the cracks. I wont miss players from the SEC or Top 25 programs because they are on TV all the team I watch them consistently during the season. Its easy to miss guys from the smaller conferences or even the Big East if u only watch them 2 or 3 times during the season. Also the grades between guys in the draft 25-45 arent all that different a guy moving around from that range or even 3rd to 2nd round isnt that much of a move really.

TCHOF
01-30-2013, 10:15 AM
You mean like JPP?

Do you disagree with my premise that you should be wary of such off-season risers?

TCHOF
01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
The only thing with that is In my personal rankings for instance I have watched more games of some guys than others so when I catch up over the off season my rankings will change. Its physically impossibe for me to watch all the games during the season. I watch most of the games in fact when the season is over. Same thing with the guys doing the mock drafts. Also postseason performances shed light on some guys that werent focused on as much during the season. People than go back and look at more of the games. Jacquian Williams for instance. I knew the name but it wasnt till after the Giants drafted him I went back and looked at him more closely and was upset I missed him. There are so many teams and so many games its easy for guys to slip through the cracks. I wont miss players from the SEC or Top 25 programs because they are on TV all the team I watch them consistently during the season. Its easy to miss guys from the smaller conferences or even the Big East if u only watch them 2 or 3 times during the season. Also the grades between guys in the draft 25-45 arent all that different a guy moving around from that range or even 3rd to 2nd round isnt that much of a move really.

This makes sense. Something I hadn't thought of.

TheEnigma
01-30-2013, 10:17 AM
Always beware of guys who climb in mocks when no football is being played . . . .

It's not that cut and dry really though. Some guys climb due to other kids going back to college (Lewan and Matthews) so that's why you see Fisher and Johnson surging ahead in the mocks and then you have some kids who see a fall because their arms are too short or they look too slow for the outside. Even if they are just 1-on-1 drills, you get a more deep insight into these linemen going up against other NFL caliber players. Eric Fisher was a little shady to some before the Senior Bowl since he came from a small football program but he solidified his status as a top 10 selection in those drills.

TCHOF
01-30-2013, 10:20 AM
It's not that cut and dry really though. Some guys climb due to other kids going back to college (Lewan and Matthews) so that's why you see Fisher and Johnson surging ahead in the mocks and then you have some kids who see a fall because their arms are too short or they look too slow for the outside. Even if they are just 1-on-1 drills, you get a more deep insight into these linemen going up against other NFL caliber players. Eric Fisher was a little shady to some before the Senior Bowl since he came from a small football program but he solidified his status as a top 10 selection in those drills.

Not really saying that it is cut and dry. Just saying to be wary. There certainly could be legitimate explanations for an offseason rise, like you have pointed out.

slipknottin
01-30-2013, 10:24 AM
Not really saying that it is cut and dry. Just saying to be wary. There certainly could be legitimate explanations for an offseason rise, like you have pointed out.

Most of these "offseason risers" aren't actually offseason risers. Teams valued them high throughout and the media is catching up.

Redeyejedi
01-30-2013, 10:47 AM
Most of these "offseason risers" aren't actually offseason risers. Teams valued them high throughout and the media is catching up. These postseason events give media easier access to scouts as well

Redeyejedi
01-30-2013, 07:47 PM
Most of these "offseason risers" aren't actually offseason risers. Teams valued them high throughout and the media is catching up.Goes both ways to I think there are a few overrated guys that these mocks will say are falling but they arent the player they are being projected. Damontre Moore isnt a Top 5 pick. All last year I said he was an underrated player now he is way overrated truth is he shouldnt go before pick 15 maybe later

Mlerman17
01-30-2013, 08:16 PM
Goes both ways to I think there are a few overrated guys that these mocks will say are falling but they arent the player they are being projected. Damontre Moore isnt a Top 5 pick. All last year I said he was an underrated player now he is way overrated truth is he shouldnt go before pick 15 maybe laterLol I completely agree. Btw kipper had Moore going like second overall to the jags. He is way overrated.

BlueSanta
01-30-2013, 09:33 PM
Do you disagree with my premise that you should be wary of such off-season risers?

I try not to apply generalized statements to individual situations. Because if you do, someone throws a perfect counter point example in your face. Much like I did with JPP.


Sometimes offseason risers rise for good reason. Multiple recent example come to mind:

JPP, Doug Martin, Christian Ponder, JJ Watt and many more.....

You have to look at every player individually rather than rule out someone because of some vague rule of thumb.

nycsportzfan
01-30-2013, 11:29 PM
It's not that cut and dry really though. Some guys climb due to other kids going back to college (Lewan and Matthews) so that's why you see Fisher and Johnson surging ahead in the mocks and then you have some kids who see a fall because their arms are too short or they look too slow for the outside. Even if they are just 1-on-1 drills, you get a more deep insight into these linemen going up against other NFL caliber players. Eric Fisher was a little shady to some before the Senior Bowl since he came from a small football program but he solidified his status as a top 10 selection in those drills. Really, none of it matters with underclassmen invloved.. Becasue so many of those underclassmen are either 1st rd picks or at least better then where there ranked now, assuming they raised there stocks had they gone back to school, so so many times ur getting guys that would be 1st rd picks and possibly top 10picks(look at Joeckl's rise this yr) a yr early is all.. Look at Barkley, he'd of been a top 5pick last yr, and goes back to school, and now hes possibly not even a 1st rder.. So if he did go last yr and was taken 5th or 6th overall or something like that, that team would of taken a guy who if only a yr later would of been possibly not even a 1st rder..

My point is, its so hard to tell whos the better prospects and why alot of teams simply go with "there" guy, regardless of ranking..

TCHOF
01-31-2013, 11:58 AM
I try not to apply generalized statements to individual situations. Because if you do, someone throws a perfect counter point example in your face. Much like I did with JPP.


Sometimes offseason risers rise for good reason. Multiple recent example come to mind:

JPP, Doug Martin, Christian Ponder, JJ Watt and many more.....

You have to look at every player individually rather than rule out someone because of some vague rule of thumb.

Guess you don't get my point.

I never said that someone should be automatically ruled out because they rose on draft boards during the offseason. What I said was teams should "beware" of such off-season risers, meaning that they should closely scrutinize the reason for the late rise up the boards. If that scrutiny results in finding a legitimate reason for the rise, then there is no reason not to draft the player.

Some guys rise up the boards because they perform well in shorts in combine drills, even though their play on the field did not match their drill performance (Bruce Campbell of Maryland comes to mind). Teams need to make sure that this type of situation isn't the case with off-season risers.

So your JPP point is actually not a counter to my point at all.

BlueSanta
01-31-2013, 05:12 PM
Guess you don't get my point.

I never said that someone should be automatically ruled out because they rose on draft boards during the offseason. What I said was teams should "beware" of such off-season risers, meaning that they should closely scrutinize the reason for the late rise up the boards. If that scrutiny results in finding a legitimate reason for the rise, then there is no reason not to draft the player.

Some guys rise up the boards because they perform well in shorts in combine drills, even though their play on the field did not match their drill performance (Bruce Campbell of Maryland comes to mind). Teams need to make sure that this type of situation isn't the case with off-season risers.

So your JPP point is actually not a counter to my point at all.

JPP is actually a very good counter because he was exactly what you described, a guy who stock soared AFTER the season was over. Many of the other guys I mentioned fit this mold as well. Several more come to mind.

You like to make generalized statements and apply then to specific situations, go ahead. I prefer to look at each kid for what he is.

Redeyejedi
01-31-2013, 05:26 PM
Guess you don't get my point.

I never said that someone should be automatically ruled out because they rose on draft boards during the offseason. What I said was teams should "beware" of such off-season risers, meaning that they should closely scrutinize the reason for the late rise up the boards. If that scrutiny results in finding a legitimate reason for the rise, then there is no reason not to draft the player.

Some guys rise up the boards because they perform well in shorts in combine drills, even though their play on the field did not match their drill performance (Bruce Campbell of Maryland comes to mind). Teams need to make sure that this type of situation isn't the case with off-season risers.

So your JPP point is actually not a counter to my point at all.Bruce Cambell only rose with the media. Media and NFL Scouts are different things. Cambell didnt get drafted where the media said he went 4th round