PDA

View Full Version : so does kiwi



KillaRich
02-04-2013, 07:25 PM
Go back to de?

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 07:30 PM
If they don't sign Osi, very likely. A lot depends on the development of Tracy and Ojomo. I wish they would create a scheduled rotation with Tuck, Jpp, Tracy, and Ojomo similar to what the Eagles did last season. I am assuming Tracy and Ojomo are here for a reason

Carter.525
02-04-2013, 07:31 PM
I dont see how he doesn't.. He's not exactly lighting it up at LB

brad
02-04-2013, 08:31 PM
If they don't sign Osi, very likely. A lot depends on the development of Tracy and Ojomo. I wish they would create a scheduled rotation with Tuck, Jpp, Tracy, and Ojomo similar to what the Eagles did last season. I am assuming Tracy and Ojomo are here for a reason

Agreed... will also depend on who can take the LB spots.

egyptian420
02-04-2013, 08:42 PM
If they don't sign Osi, very likely. A lot depends on the development of Tracy and Ojomo. I wish they would create a scheduled rotation with Tuck, Jpp, Tracy, and Ojomo similar to what the Eagles did last season. I am assuming Tracy and Ojomo are here for a reasonAm I safe in guessing you prefer us drafting an offensive lineman in the first round?

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 08:45 PM
Am I safe in guessing you prefer us drafting an offensive lineman in the first round?

You are more than safe, you are listening :) First or second round

egyptian420
02-04-2013, 08:48 PM
You are more than safe, you are listening :) First or second roundlol nice, it would be sweet if the BPA at 19 is a RT or G.

If the BPA is a CB, LB, or DT, I say take em.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 08:50 PM
lol nice, it would be sweet if the BPA at 19 is a RT or G.

If the BPA is a CB, LB, or DT, I say take em.

It's not just Diehl, although he's the immediate problem. Snee is getting long in the tooth in football years. I don't think we have the next man up and it's not likely we can keep both Boothe and Beatty

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 09:07 PM
It's not just Diehl, although he's the immediate problem. Snee is getting long in the tooth in football years. I don't think we have the next man up and it's not likely we can keep both Boothe and Beatty

The voice of reason has spoken !
The same reasons I've been mentioning this couple of days. I know there's no magic wand to fix all issues at once but its pretty clear in my eyes that it has to start now and the draft its the safer way to go . I'm all in too for a 1st day pick at OL.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Probably, but I can see them drafting a DE early in the draft as well.

penguinfarmer
02-04-2013, 10:05 PM
I'm in the minority of thinking he is a better Sam than DE. His struggles this past season was they removed him from his role from 2011, where he was among the league leaders in TFLs for a 4-3 LB.

GiantRoc
02-04-2013, 10:34 PM
I hope he goes back to DE. It is his more natural position. I see us looking for speed on the outside. Kiwi is a stout run stopper on the end. I also see him making TFL's from the end spot.

Roa, do you see Boothe asking for more than we can afford to pay?

Toadofsteel
02-05-2013, 01:28 AM
If we put Kiwi opposite JPP, and draft a beefy run-stopping DT in round 2 (as far as i'm concerned round 1 should be an OT only), we could easily have a D line that could stop any team on the run. Substitute Ojomo in on the LDE when the passing downs come and let him loose.

Captain Chaos
02-05-2013, 04:49 AM
I think Kiwi's role will be defined after FA and the draft. Depends on what Reese is able to do. If you don't believe that Brewer is ready or your not willing to resign Beatty then an OT in round 1 is reasonable; however, I would rather see an killer CB or DE in the first and a OG, LB or DT in the second and third. I think Brewer will be at RT and they move Rivers to MLB.

CDN_G-FAN
02-05-2013, 05:56 AM
Go back to de?

if they do move him back,how pissed should he be.

the just spent the last 4 years trying to get him to play LBer from his natural position, now they're going to put his hand back down on the ground.

they're lucky he's such a team player. can you imagine Osi being asked to change his playing position twice?

RagTime Blue
02-05-2013, 10:37 AM
I'm in the minority of thinking he is a better Sam than DE. His struggles this past season was they removed him from his role from 2011, where he was among the league leaders in TFLs for a 4-3 LB.

I agree with you. Kiwi as always been an average DE and last year was an above-average LB (albeit a 2-down LB).

But I'm going to be the cynical one who says that Kiwi's step backward last season is due to his long-term signing. A player in his position knows that all he really has to do is make the team, and he's in for big bucks for the next few years.

I don't claim to know Kiwi as a person, or what's going on in his life, but I just think it's way too much of a coincidence that his play declines so much after one off-season.

penguinfarmer
02-05-2013, 12:49 PM
Ignoring Kiwi himself, I think the type of LB he played is more in line with what the Giants need. This whole notion of him "being out of place" just because he began as a DE is erroneous, despite the fact that many DEs make the move.

As your larger oldschool Sam, his position is closer to a DE than a 3 down LB which everyone is pining for as more of a knee jerk response. He either shades inside the TE or right at the 7. This makes it easier for him to double back to the interior gaps, aiding the MLB while giving the containment role to the safety, which they are more than capable of doing. At the snap of the ball, he is meant to stack and shed the TE and play it much like a 2 gap lineman against an OL. If he has no presnap passing responsibilities, he's free to rush the passer as a DE against a TE which is a good matchup for him. This allows him to be more of a playmaker himself rather than force the run to others.

The finesse Sam is usually more of a containment player, lining up outside of the TE at the 9 which exposes the MLB more while allowing the safety behind him to stay back, which is the opposite of what should happen on the Giants with who they currently have in Blackburn and their safeties.

People also like to mention speed in LBs as a counter to the read option. I'd have to disagree in that I think the defensive line can be more important. Ideally, you'd like to force the pitch from the QB to the RB as soon as possible. Having a defensive line that can do that is optimal, but the larger 7T Sam is the alternative to forcing the issue.

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 12:55 PM
The voice of reason has spoken !
The same reasons I've been mentioning this couple of days. I know there's no magic wand to fix all issues at once but its pretty clear in my eyes that it has to start now and the draft its the safer way to go . I'm all in too for a 1st day pick at OL.

To us, who have no skin in the game, it's easy to say get rid of player X. But the reality is it's never about ONE player. The Oline is a critical unit in terms of team success. Taking out one part of the puzzle is hard enough to fix in the short term. So when you look at free agency and realize you may actually lose the only two linemen who graded in positive territory in 2012 it's a lot more difficult than we allow for.

If Beatty and Boothe were guaranteed to be here in 2013, then you can say dump Diehl since you then only have to find HIS replacement. Diehl is still serviceable as a player in the rotation and is the most versatile player on the line.

We'll have a better sense of where we are when contracts begin to get signed and we know who will be here.

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 12:56 PM
if they do move him back,how pissed should he be.

the just spent the last 4 years trying to get him to play LBer from his natural position, now they're going to put his hand back down on the ground.

they're lucky he's such a team player. can you imagine Osi being asked to change his playing position twice?

I don't know how he's done it, to be honest.

ryan12
02-05-2013, 01:00 PM
It's not just Diehl, although he's the immediate problem. Snee is getting long in the tooth in football years. I don't think we have the next man up and it's not likely we can keep both Boothe and Beatty

we have to find a way to keep boothe and beatty

VBGiantsFan
02-05-2013, 03:13 PM
we have to find a way to keep boothe and beatty

Beatty is the only immediate O-lineman we have to find a way to keep. Boothe, Bass, Snee, Diehl can all go join the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, or Jets for all I care. They could hardly pass block and don't even get me started on run blocking. This draft should be ALL O-line if there are good ones available.

As for Kiwi, move him back to DE and lets field JWill, Blackburn(if we can't find better), and Boley, with Rivers coming in often for JWill who will be immediately injured.

yo-ho
02-05-2013, 04:53 PM
if they do move him back,how pissed should he be.

the just spent the last 4 years trying to get him to play LBer from his natural position, now they're going to put his hand back down on the ground.

they're lucky he's such a team player. can you imagine Osi being asked to change his playing position twice?

That's why Osi should be gone. Besides being a liability on running plays, the guy's a diva. If he stays, he should be used exclusively on passing downs and for that limited duty it should be a t a reduced price. He is no longer worth his paycheck.

yo-ho
02-05-2013, 04:56 PM
Beatty is the only immediate O-lineman we have to find a way to keep. Boothe, Bass, Snee, Diehl can all go join the Redskins, Eagles, Cowboys, or Jets for all I care. They could hardly pass block and don't even get me started on run blocking. This draft should be ALL O-line if there are good ones available.

As for Kiwi, move him back to DE and lets field JWill, Blackburn(if we can't find better), and Boley, with Rivers coming in often for JWill who will be immediately injured.

I don't have a problem with Boothe, and Snee just made the pro-bowl, he's going no where.

G-Men Surg.
02-05-2013, 08:02 PM
To us, who have no skin in the game, it's easy to say get rid of player X. But the reality is it's never about ONE player. The Oline is a critical unit in terms of team success. Taking out one part of the puzzle is hard enough to fix in the short term. So when you look at free agency and realize you may actually lose the only two linemen who graded in positive territory in 2012 it's a lot more difficult than we allow for.

If Beatty and Boothe were guaranteed to be here in 2013, then you can say dump Diehl since you then only have to find HIS replacement. Diehl is still serviceable as a player in the rotation and is the most versatile player on the line.

We'll have a better sense of where we are when contracts begin to get signed and we know who will be here.
If you ask me I have a hunch Beatty will get his contract or gets the franchise tag and Boothe walks ( that said I like Boothe ) and the Giants drafts a 2 nd round G/C.