PDA

View Full Version : These cuts should put all veterans on notice



WinterIsComing
02-06-2013, 03:51 PM
This is exactly what the Giants needed to do. Too many vets with superbowl rings, who aren't as hungry as they used to be. It's a clear message, win football games to justify your contract or start looking for a new team.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 03:52 PM
Well sort of agree, but I thought Canty and Bradshaw especially were some of the highest effort players on the team.

TheBookOfEli
02-06-2013, 03:52 PM
Yup. Tuck should be looking over both shoulders as well as Webster.

DownWitJPP
02-06-2013, 03:58 PM
Well sort of agree, but I thought Canty and Bradshaw especially were some of the highest effort players on the team.

I agree with ya on the effort, but Canty's play has declined significantly. The Bradshaw cut I don't agree with..that was purely to say money IMO or the team doctors know more about his feet than what has been released to the media. Maybe they just don't think his feet will ever be the same

Cloud57
02-06-2013, 03:59 PM
Yup. Tuck should be looking over both shoulders as well as Webster.Tuck will have to play hard this season because he doesn't have a choice

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:05 PM
I agree with ya on the effort, but Canty's play has declined significantly. The Bradshaw cut I don't agree with..that was purely to say money IMO or the team doctors know more about his feet than what has been released to the media. Maybe they just don't think his feet will ever be the same

Canty was probably the best DL on the team last year when he was playing and healthy. Which wasent often, but he was really good.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:05 PM
This is exactly what the Giants needed to do. Too many vets with superbowl rings, who aren't as hungry as they used to be. It's a clear message, win football games to justify your contract or start looking for a new team.

I'm not so sure that's the message here. Bradshaw played his heart out, Boley was a hard worker whose play dropped off with several injuries. I see it more as a change in FO philosophy regarding restructuring contracts to the extent we have in recent years. Restructuring is, at best, a short term fix but it's a long term problem. Eli's restructure, as an example, made CAP life far more difficult over the life of his contract than had they just left it alone.

The financial chickens have come home to roost and Reese is clearing out as much as he can and still compete in 2013 IMO.

CowboysSuck
02-06-2013, 04:08 PM
Well sort of agree, but I thought Canty and Bradshaw especially were some of the highest effort players on the team.

I do kind of feel bad about Bradshaw. He poured his heart & soul into the game for us every weekend. Lets hope he gets a good shot and decent money on another team.

That said, I am EXTREMELY excited to see the Wilson-Brown 1-2 punch. That should be an electric running game. Not to mention a healthy Nicks, an improved randle, Cruz, and the rest. The only iffy spot on the offense is O-line and i think Jerry knows this. It will be fixed.

DownWitJPP
02-06-2013, 04:08 PM
Canty was probably the best DL on the team last year when he was playing and healthy. Which wasent often, but he was really good. our interior D-line played like garbage including Joseph. RB's were running right up the middle on us with ease

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:08 PM
I'm not so sure that's the message here. Bradshaw played his heart out, Boley was a hard worker whose play dropped off with several injuries. I see it more as a change in FO philosophy regarding restructuring contracts to the extent we have in recent years.

I dont think its that either.

They just eliminated 10 mil on the salary cap and released three guys who were injured all or most of last season.

They were already over the cap, so this frees up some room to spend elsewhere.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:10 PM
our interior D-line played like garbage including Joseph. RB's were running right up the middle on us with ease

Theres a lot more to that than just DT play.

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:15 PM
Sounds like Reese is cleaning house... time to get younger on the team. I don't know what the future will bring (especially with the draft ahead of us), but I haven't felt this hopeful in ages. I thank these guys for their service, but now it's time to move on.

Only cut so far that doesn't make sense is Bradshaw. Doesn't that clear up negative cap space?

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:17 PM
our interior D-line played like garbage including Joseph. RB's were running right up the middle on us with ease

That's true, however we don't know what Reese has planned in terms of replacement. Let's stop and think a minute. JPP, Tuck, and Kiwanuka have all played at DT and while that may not be ideal, we have Tracy and Ojomo on tap and I, for one, have confidence art last one of them is going to step up in 2013. Nothing prevents Reese from signing a veteran for a one year deal either.

This is more to do with making CAP space than getting rid of players.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:17 PM
Doesn't that clear up negative cap space?

Clears 2.75 million. Possibly clears 3.5 million if they instead chose to let 1.25 mil of it hit next season instead.

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:19 PM
Clears 2.75 million. Possibly clears 3.5 million if they instead chose to let 1.25 mil of it hit next season instead.

I could have sworn that it cost more to cut him than to keep him...

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:20 PM
[QUOTE=Toadofsteel;678825]Sounds like Reese is cleaning house... time to get younger on the team. I don't know what the future will bring (especially with the draft ahead of us), but I haven't felt this hopeful in ages. I thank these guys for their service, but now it's time to move on.

Only cut so far that doesn't make sense is Bradshaw. Doesn't that clear up negative cap space?[/QUOTE

Don't look at it as a single year event:

Courtesy of Slip:

Bradshaw
keeping this season = $5 mil
keeping next season = $5.25 mil
releasing before this season = savings of 1.25 (no cap hit after 2013, so would save full 5.25 in 2014)
releasing after next season = savings of 4 mil
dead space releasing before this season = 2.5 mil
dead space releasing after next season = 1.25

Redeyejedi
02-06-2013, 04:22 PM
Shaun O'Hara ‏@ShaunOHara60
Damn first Boley, then Canty, now my boy @AhmadBradshaw -Sniper on the roof at Timex today...steer clear. NFL biz is #ColdBlooded

DownWitJPP
02-06-2013, 04:23 PM
That's true, however we don't know what Reese has planned in terms of replacement. Let's stop and think a minute. JPP, Tuck, and Kiwanuka have all played at DT and while that may not be ideal, we have Tracy and Ojomo on tap and I, for one, have confidence art last one of them is going to step up in 2013. Nothing prevents Reese from signing a veteran for a one year deal either.

This is more to do with making CAP space than getting rid of players.

I agree that it has more to do with the money.,but I also think JR is trying to get this team younger. We looked washed up towards the end of last season. I like both prospects in Tracy and Ojomo

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:31 PM
I agree that it has more to do with the money.,but I also think JR is trying to get this team younger. We looked washed up towards the end of last season. I like both prospects in Tracy and Ojomo

I just hope we get more DT in the draft for depth. Kuhn looked promising (especially so for a 7th round pick) before the ACL injury, and our middle run stuffing wasn't nearly as bad before Kuhn went down... maybe Canty getting released means that JR has more faith in Kuhn to recover and start next season.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:31 PM
I agree that it has more to do with the money.,but I also think JR is trying to get this team younger. We looked washed up towards the end of last season. I like both prospects in Tracy and Ojomo

Reese believes in his draft picks. It doesn't always work out, but more often than not our next man up has been there when their number was called.

myles2424
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
Well sort of agree, but I thought Canty and Bradshaw especially were some of the highest effort players on the team.
i love bradshaw....But with his salary,not being able to play healthy & a 1st round pick on deck, i expected this.....

GameTime
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
This is exactly what the Giants needed to do. Too many vets with superbowl rings, who aren't as hungry as they used to be. It's a clear message, win football games to justify your contract or start looking for a new team.
its more of a business decsion then a get rid of the vets decision. It also depends hugely on how cutting a player will effect the cap....

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
[QUOTE=Toadofsteel;678825]Sounds like Reese is cleaning house... time to get younger on the team. I don't know what the future will bring (especially with the draft ahead of us), but I haven't felt this hopeful in ages. I thank these guys for their service, but now it's time to move on.

Only cut so far that doesn't make sense is Bradshaw. Doesn't that clear up negative cap space?[/QUOTE

Don't look at it as a single year event:

Courtesy of Slip:

Bradshaw
keeping this season = $5 mil
keeping next season = $5.25 mil
releasing before this season = savings of 1.25 (no cap hit after 2013, so would save full 5.25 in 2014)
releasing after next season = savings of 4 mil
dead space releasing before this season = 2.5 mil
dead space releasing after next season = 1.25

My multi year numbers are all wrong. I have to fix them. I added the signing bonus in twice.

Drez
02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
Sounds like Reese is cleaning house... time to get younger on the team. I don't know what the future will bring (especially with the draft ahead of us), but I haven't felt this hopeful in ages. I thank these guys for their service, but now it's time to move on.

Only cut so far that doesn't make sense is Bradshaw. Doesn't that clear up negative cap space?No, it frees up a bit. I know when I looked at the numbers earlier, I accidentally counted his 2012 bonuses into my calculations, so I thought we'd lose money in cutting him.

PBTimmons
02-06-2013, 04:39 PM
IMO, Canty had 2 good-great years as a Giant. 2010 and 2011. Pair that with 2 awful years in 2009 and 2012, both of which he spent mostly injured.

Boley, Canty and Bradshaw can effectively be chalked up to damaged goods being cut from the team. You can't pay these guys this kind of money if they are injured as much as they are healthy.

To say it is a "message" or a "change in philosophy" is more speculative than anything.

Drez
02-06-2013, 04:41 PM
IMO, Canty had 2 good-great years as a Giant. 2010 and 2011. Pair that with 2 awful years in 2009 and 2012, both of which he spent mostly injured.

Boley, Canty and Bradshaw can effectively be chalked up to damaged goods being cut from the team. You can't pay these guys this kind of money if they are injured as much as they are healthy.

To say it is a "message" or a "change in philosophy" is more speculative than anything.What can be said with certainty is that these were cap moves/business decisions more than anything.

GOBLUE24
02-06-2013, 04:45 PM
Im not a fan of what those two were going to make but high effort guys!!! hope Bradshaw comes back on team friendly deal. some guys on oline know I love to see hit the bricks

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 05:18 PM
[QUOTE=RoanokeFan;678847]

My multi year numbers are all wrong. I have to fix them. I added the signing bonus in twice.

It's still a paying forward process regardless of the actual dollars

hugehomer
02-06-2013, 05:22 PM
Am I right that almost half of the Giants cap is tied up in six players who are not worth their salary, Diehl,Snee,Baas,Tuck,Webster and Rolle.

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 05:26 PM
Am I right that almost half of the Giants cap is tied up in six players who are not worth their salary, Diehl,Snee,Baas,Tuck,Webster and Rolle.

Throw Eli in there too (yes he's great but not worth 20 mil), but then again he restructured big time last offseason so I'm giving him a pass for this contract.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 05:26 PM
It's still a paying forward process regardless of the actual dollars

The cost savings for the current year though are much higher. Bradshaw for instance I thought would be only 1.5 million, because i subtracted this years 1.25 mil signing bonus. When really that 1.25 mil counts against the cap either way. So its a savings of the full 2.75 million of his base salary.

joemorrisforprez
02-06-2013, 05:28 PM
This is exactly what the Giants needed to do. Too many vets with superbowl rings, who aren't as hungry as they used to be. It's a clear message, win football games to justify your contract or start looking for a new team.

Hopefully it also puts the coaching staff on notice that they need to stop leaning on aging, banged up vets.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 07:10 PM
The cost savings for the current year though are much higher. Bradshaw for instance I thought would be only 1.5 million, because i subtracted this years 1.25 mil signing bonus. When really that 1.25 mil counts against the cap either way. So its a savings of the full 2.75 million of his base salary.

We needed to do this and it's heartbreaking to see these names on the cut list, but we are not that far away from contending and we have to create CAP space and this is the only legitimate answer for that.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 07:11 PM
Hopefully it also puts the coaching staff on notice that they need to stop leaning on aging, banged up vets.

The coachng staff plays with the hand they are dealt

jomo
02-06-2013, 07:49 PM
The coachng staff plays with the hand they are dealt...........and at least this coaching staff (can't speak for the Jets) start the players who give us the best chance to win.

harrycarson
02-06-2013, 08:49 PM
How is it that Perry fewell keeps his job?

joemorrisforprez
02-06-2013, 09:02 PM
The coachng staff plays with the hand they are dealt

They didn't trust the young guys enough in my opinion....the team looked old and soft against the Falcons and Ravens.

Sosynciere
02-06-2013, 09:07 PM
My guess is Tuck and Webster are both relatively safe, considering their positions and our lack of depth at each. All we can hope is that something can be done to lower Web's cap number, but I think he's played well enough in the last two years to at least compete with what we have at CB for next season. Tuck also. After JPP, who do we have young AND good to great at DE?

It also seems we won't make cuts on the offensive line just because we don't have any depth there at all. We have depth at RB without Bradshaw with Wilson and Brown, who even though is coming off of surgery, is still a safer bet than Bradshaw next season. Bring him back at less than what Bradshaw made, and draft another playmaker in the later rounds of the draft.

As much as I'd like to see the Giants address the OL and CB spots in the upcoming dragt, I wouldn't be opposed to another weapon for Eli too. Basically building GOOD depth across the board. I think our corners, defensive ends, and offensive tackles are going to be relatively safe cuts-wise. After the draft, we'll reassess.

Sean Montemayor
02-06-2013, 09:21 PM
I do kind of feel bad about Bradshaw. He poured his heart & soul into the game for us every weekend. Lets hope he gets a good shot and decent money on another team.That said, I am EXTREMELY excited to see the Wilson-Brown 1-2 punch. That should be an electric running game. Not to mention a healthy Nicks, an improved randle, Cruz, and the rest. The only iffy spot on the offense is O-line and i think Jerry knows this. It will be fixed. +1

Sean Montemayor
02-06-2013, 09:23 PM
The coachng staff plays with the hand they are dealt +1

GiantRoc
02-06-2013, 10:30 PM
They didn't trust the young guys enough in my opinion....the team looked old and soft against the Falcons and Ravens.

+1.

I wouldn't say this is the end either. There are a lot of young players and projects we have not seen rolled out. If these guys seem to the staff to be panning out, guys like Diehl and Webster etc., may still be let go.

PS. I think Canty was a solid DT. It was a numbers thing and a durability thing with these moves. IMO

gmen0820
02-06-2013, 10:32 PM
You know what should be put on notice? That we're broke lol