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WiIdcat
02-06-2013, 04:01 PM
Well I guess it's safe to guarantee that Dline will be the pick in either the first, 2nd, or both. With Canty and Osi gone and Tuck on the decline the giants have NO depth on the dline. Time to stock up! Here's to Richardson, Ansah, etc.

shane4177
02-06-2013, 04:15 PM
I agree and would love to see us grab early round dline pick like Ansah or Richardson.......but depending on what happens with Diehl contract, and the possible re-signing of Boothe/Beatty......we may go Oline in the 1st.......

WiIdcat
02-06-2013, 04:30 PM
I agree and would love to see us grab early round dline pick like Ansah or Richardson.......but depending on what happens with Diehl contract, and the possible re-signing of Boothe/Beatty......we may go Oline in the 1st.......

I know our Oline could use some major help at RT and we still need to resign boothe and beatty like you said, but they need to fix this 31st ranked defense with an impact defender in round 1. I won't be happy with offense.

nycsportzfan
02-06-2013, 05:26 PM
Ya but for all we know, Jerry Reese is high on Markus Kuhn, Marvin Austin, Adewale Ojomo, and possibly Adrian Tracy, and could/or decide to move KIWI back to DE... My point is, they got a better understanding of guys we simply see on game day.. They watch em progress day in and day out and know more then us as far as if they think they will be successful given larger amounts of playing time and possibly starting..


We also lost Boley, so u could say the same thing at LB..

WiIdcat
02-08-2013, 07:42 AM
It looks like there is more depth at DE, so it would make sense to go DT in round 1 because a quality end will still be there in round 2.

I would love Richardson but I believe he's a top 15 pick so I'd go with Kawann Short or Sharrif Floyd in the first, then Magus Hunt, Okafor, Montgomery, etc in the 2nd.

Redeyejedi
02-08-2013, 08:35 AM
Ya but for all we know, Jerry Reese is high on Markus Kuhn, Marvin Austin, Adewale Ojomo, and possibly Adrian Tracy, and could/or decide to move KIWI back to DE... My point is, they got a better understanding of guys we simply see on game day.. They watch em progress day in and day out and know more then us as far as if they think they will be successful given larger amounts of playing time and possibly starting..


We also lost Boley, so u could say the same thing at LB.. Im not very optimistic about any of these guys being anything more than back end depth.Austin is the only 1 that has + physical tools. I think the defensive line is the 1 spot where u dont just hope guys are good . U overstock and let the chips fall.A team that has been so focused on the Dline over the years I just cant picture them counting on UFA's to replace All Pro's. Unless a change of philosophy is coming

nycsportzfan
02-08-2013, 11:23 AM
Im not very optimistic about any of these guys being anything more than back end depth.Austin is the only 1 that has + physical tools. I think the defensive line is the 1 spot where u dont just hope guys are good . U overstock and let the chips fall.A team that has been so focused on the Dline over the years I just cant picture them counting on UFA's to replace All Pro's. Unless a change of philosophy is coming
Oh i agree for most part, but i'm basically saying theres alot of needs and don't be so sure that some of these moves made aren't because one or 2 of the guys we haven't seen alot of becuase they were basically behind veteran players or are developmental guys who are honing there crafts, are figuring into the equation alittle bit, ala David Tollefson.. Ojomo looked great in the Spring, but that dosen't mean hes gonna get great amount of reps instantly in the regular season.. Maybe Reese had em in mind for a yr down the rd when he pretty much knew OSI was gonna be gone and Tuck another yr further into his aging process... And Kuhn has a Chris Canty feel to em, and if he beefs up a few lbs, u might have a nice run stopper with length to bat down some passes, and a motor that allows him to get to the QB a bit...Obviously the Motor is more Kuhn, and not really Canty's fortay...

Those would be the 2 i would think possibly could be in our future plans.. Obviously ur probably right, and i tend to agree, but i'm just saying, i woulden't count it out completely...

Rawdog550
02-08-2013, 01:42 PM
Giants need a BIG run stuffer!!!!!! I don't see Richardson or Short being enough. I honestly think Jesse Williams from Bama is the guy the Giants need. One he is strongest guy in this draft. He was said to be benching 600lbs!!!! He takes on Double teams and breaks thru them. He can collapse the pocket and take down the runner in the backfield. He is versatile enough to play any technique along the DL. Run stuffing is what he does best which is what the Giants need the most. He is quick off the snap and has good speed running 4.75 40's at 325-330 lbs. Keep an eye on this kid his stock is going to rise come the combine and once its over. Unless people here think Sean Rodgers is the answer to the Giants crappy run defense we need to draft a Pure Run stop DT/NT. I believe Jesse Williams is the guy.

nycsportzfan
02-08-2013, 10:48 PM
Giants need a BIG run stuffer!!!!!! I don't see Richardson or Short being enough. I honestly think Jesse Williams from Bama is the guy the Giants need. One he is strongest guy in this draft. He was said to be benching 600lbs!!!! He takes on Double teams and breaks thru them. He can collapse the pocket and take down the runner in the backfield. He is versatile enough to play any technique along the DL. Run stuffing is what he does best which is what the Giants need the most. He is quick off the snap and has good speed running 4.75 40's at 325-330 lbs. Keep an eye on this kid his stock is going to rise come the combine and once its over. Unless people here think Sean Rodgers is the answer to the Giants crappy run defense we need to draft a Pure Run stop DT/NT. I believe Jesse Williams is the guy. Short is a all around DT, that can play the run , makes plays in backfiel, sacks the QB, blocks kicks..etc Hes exactly what we need.. Jesse Williams is a one dimensional run stuffer who does nothing else...

I'd rather sign Glenn Dorsey for cheap and draft Kawaan Short personally...

Carter.525
02-08-2013, 11:00 PM
Im down for a DT in the 1st, it is a big need.. as long as it's not Hankins

Rawdog550
02-09-2013, 04:32 AM
Short is a all around DT, that can play the run , makes plays in backfiel, sacks the QB, blocks kicks..etc Hes exactly what we need.. Jesse Williams is a one dimensional run stuffer who does nothing else...

I'd rather sign Glenn Dorsey for cheap and draft Kawaan Short personally...

Well the Giants need a run stuffer!!!! Williams has the ability to do more than that.

WiIdcat
02-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Well the Giants need a run stuffer!!!! Williams has the ability to do more than that.

We don't necessarily need a run stuffer, we need a playmaker on the dline to compliment JPP. Short had 45 tackles for loss and 18 sacks over the last 3 seasons. I'd rather have a guy that wreaks havoc in the backfield all by himself then have some "run-stuffer".

slipknottin
02-09-2013, 11:46 AM
Giants dont need a run stuffer at all, they need a 3 tech. They have their 1 tech in Linval.

Thats what they were hoping Austin would be.

If Sheldon Richardson fell to the giants he would fit perfectly.

Redeyejedi
02-09-2013, 12:10 PM
Giants dont need a run stuffer at all, they need a 3 tech. They have their 1 tech in Linval.

Thats what they were hoping Austin would be.

If Sheldon Richardson fell to the giants he would fit perfectly. I think they could use a run stuffer but they can get 1 cheap in FA. Hopefully Rodgers will work out.

juice33s
02-09-2013, 01:56 PM
I think they could use a run stuffer but they can get 1 cheap in FA. Hopefully Rodgers will work out.
Agreed, with the way the Giants play 4 DE's on passing downs, I don't think it's necassary to have a pass rushing 3 tech. The best run defense of the modern era (2000 Ravens) featured two space eating DT's (Siragusa, Adams) in their 4/3

WiIdcat
02-09-2013, 03:06 PM
Agreed, with the way the Giants play 4 DE's on passing downs, I don't think it's necassary to have a pass rushing 3 tech. The best run defense of the modern era (2000 Ravens) featured two space eating DT's (Siragusa, Adams) in their 4/3

Well if that's the case, then would Jesse Williams or John Jenkins be there in round 2? Because drafting Ogletree in round 1 and having him protected by 2 mammoths like Linval and Jenkins would be the foundations of a great front 7.

Rawdog550
02-09-2013, 03:17 PM
Kwaan Short has some major questions about his motor and playing every down. Richardson for is on the smaller end for DT at 295 pounds and just had major shoulder surgery. You want a 3 tech guy thats what Marvin Austin is being groomed for. But if you wanna stop the run you gotta get a young Run stuffer who you can groom and develope. Look at the Raven even now. You have Ngata and Cody as DT's both 340lbs plus able to rip thru Double teams and crush ball carriers. I believe Jesse Williams or John Jenkins even Kwame Gathers would be good picks for the Giants. Bleacher Report has Jesse Williams as the best pure NT in this years draft when it comes to stuffing the run and they also believe him to be the hardest hitting DT/NT in the draft. Plus he has the ability to play the other techniques on the Dline. I just think Williams from Bama is gonna really move up draft boards come the combine. He may not even make it to the Giants.

juice33s
02-09-2013, 03:22 PM
Well if that's the case, then would Jesse Williams or John Jenkins be there in round 2? Because drafting Ogletree in round 1 and having him protected by 2 mammoths like Linval and Jenkins would be the foundations of a great front 7.
I'm not so sure a run stuffing DT warrants a top 2 round selection in todays NFL. These guys aren't everydown players and I think the value more fits in the 3-5 round area

giants8493
02-09-2013, 03:56 PM
Giants need a BIG run stuffer!!!!!! I don't see Richardson or Short being enough. I honestly think Jesse Williams from Bama is the guy the Giants need. One he is strongest guy in this draft. He was said to be benching 600lbs!!!! He takes on Double teams and breaks thru them. He can collapse the pocket and take down the runner in the backfield. He is versatile enough to play any technique along the DL. Run stuffing is what he does best which is what the Giants need the most. He is quick off the snap and has good speed running 4.75 40's at 325-330 lbs. Keep an eye on this kid his stock is going to rise come the combine and once its over. Unless people here think Sean Rodgers is the answer to the Giants crappy run defense we need to draft a Pure Run stop DT/NT. I believe Jesse Williams is the guy.but what does he squat?

Rawdog550
02-09-2013, 04:41 PM
but what does he squat?

I dont know what he squats but they say he is by far physically the strongest player in this draft Jesse Williams is. I'm just trying to point out he has the ability to be more than just a Run stuffer he has speed as well.

slipknottin
02-09-2013, 05:59 PM
Agreed, with the way the Giants play 4 DE's on passing downs, I don't think it's necassary to have a pass rushing 3 tech. The best run defense of the modern era (2000 Ravens) featured two space eating DT's (Siragusa, Adams) in their 4/3

They play the Nascar package because they have no pass rushing DTs. Not the other way around.

And losing Osi means they have one less end.... So unless they plan on playing Ojomo/Tracy out there instead, they need to play a DT now.

Rawdog550
02-09-2013, 07:10 PM
They play the Nascar package because they have no pass rushing DTs. Not the other way around.

And losing Osi means they have one less end.... So unless they plan on playing Ojomo/Tracy out there instead, they need to play a DT now.

Thats Marvin Austin!!!!!! He was drafted to be that pass rushing DT and he is going to have to pick his game up. They still need a run stuffing DT out of this draft. You wanna depend on Sean Rodgers who may not get thru pre season due to his health. As a Giant fan I dont wanna depend on Sean Rodgers for my run stuffing all year he isn't likely to play the entire season. He will end up on IR!!! You need a young big bodied Run stuffer and a good ILB. There are a few good ILB out there in FA that could fit the bill.

juice33s
02-09-2013, 07:38 PM
They play the Nascar package because they have no pass rushing DTs. Not the other way around.

And losing Osi means they have one less end.... So unless they plan on playing Ojomo/Tracy out there instead, they need to play a DT now.
No, they went Nascar because they had thorough breds in the barn and it would be silly not to get them all on the field at the same when ever reasonably possible.

Whose the best pass rushing 3tech of all time? John Randle, Warren Sapp?....Let me ask you this, on a team with Dwight Freeney, Lawerence Taylor, Reggie White, Bruce smith or any other combination of 4 good to great/versatle D-ends, would Randle and Sapp get on the field on obvious pass rushing situations?

I would say no, with that roster I'd go Freeney and Taylor on the edges with Smith and White coming up the middle

slipknottin
02-09-2013, 09:21 PM
Whose the best pass rushing 3tech of all time? John Randle, Warren Sapp?....Let me ask you this, on a team with Dwight Freeney, Lawerence Taylor, Reggie White, Bruce smith or any other combination of 4 good to great/versatle D-ends, would Randle and Sapp get on the field on obvious pass rushing situations?

Absolutely. Nobody would take a 4-3 DE inside vs. a JJ Watt or Geno Atkins.

DEs are not great inside pass rushers. Giants did it because they had far better pass rushers at DE than DTs, plus they had to try to find a way to get those guys on the field.


And Reggie White was 300+ pounds, he was an actual DT for a lot of his career.

Theres a reason there are more DTs in the HoF than DEs, and a reason Sapp made it over Strahan.

juice33s
02-09-2013, 10:31 PM
Absolutely. Nobody would take a 4-3 DE inside vs. a JJ Watt or Geno Atkins.

DEs are not great inside pass rushers. Giants did it because they had far better pass rushers at DE than DTs, plus they had to try to find a way to get those guys on the field.


And Reggie White was 300+ pounds, he was an actual DT for a lot of his career.

Theres a reason there are more DTs in the HoF than DEs, and a reason Sapp made it over Strahan.
Well technically Watt is a defensive end so....As for White, he was an ACTUAL DE for pretty much his ENTIRE career and lastly you're comparing Sapp a guy who is perhaps the greatest ever at his position to Strahan who was great, but wouldn't be in that category.

Also there maybe more DT's in the HOF then DE's, but it certainly isn't because they're better pass rushers

slipknottin
02-09-2013, 11:54 PM
Well technically Watt is a defensive end so....As for White, he was an ACTUAL DE for pretty much his ENTIRE career and lastly you're comparing Sapp a guy who is perhaps the greatest ever at his position to Strahan who was great, but wouldn't be in that category.

Also there maybe more DT's in the HOF then DE's, but it certainly isn't because they're better pass rushers

Watt is a 5 tech. An interior pass rusher.

There are a lot of great DTs. Not just Sapp.

But this entire debate is pointless. Giants don't get a great pass rush from their DEs or their NASCAR package. And now they are missing Osi from that as well. They absolutely need a DT who can provide some push.

juice33s
02-10-2013, 12:34 AM
Watt is a 5 tech. An interior pass rusher.

There are a lot of great DTs. Not just Sapp.

But this entire debate is pointless. Giants don't get a great pass rush from their DEs or their NASCAR package. And now they are missing Osi from that as well. They absolutely need a DT who can provide some push.
Right, a 5tech which is a 3/4 DE, you were arguing for a 4/3 3 tech. And now you want to discredit a philosophy that accounted for more sacks then any other NFL team in the 5 year span between 2007-2011, (Also won us 2 superbowls), because of one down year??...Not to mention the fact that now that Osi is out of the picture you think the best way to retool the pass rush is a DT and not an edge rusher???

penguinfarmer
02-10-2013, 07:00 AM
34 5T ends translate to 43 3T DTs. I don't think he's saying he prefers one of the other as the Giants line was optimal when they got pressure from both the interior and ends, like SB42 where Giants pressured the interior with their tackles and a healthy Tuck. The Giants only had only one consistent pass rusher from the interior last year which was Canty who started on PUP.

Redeyejedi
02-10-2013, 08:34 AM
Watt is a 5 tech. An interior pass rusher.

There are a lot of great DTs. Not just Sapp.

But this entire debate is pointless. Giants don't get a great pass rush from their DEs or their NASCAR package. And now they are missing Osi from that as well. They absolutely need a DT who can provide some push. The best Ive seen this defense since the 1st Superbowl was 2008 at the start of the season when Fred Robbins was unstoppable.

juice33s
02-10-2013, 03:41 PM
]34 5T ends translate to 43 3T DTs[/B]. I don't think he's saying he prefers one of the other as the Giants line was optimal when they got pressure from both the interior and ends, like SB42 where Giants pressured the interior with their tackles and a healthy Tuck. The Giants only had only one consistent pass rusher from the interior last year which was Canty who started on PUP.
Not really, Warren Sapp (Perhaps the greatest 3tech of all time) sucked as a 5T when he went to Oakland. If Watt were on the Giants he'd be a LDE who kicks inside on passing downs. But basically Watt is a freak who could play pretty much any position in any scheme on the Dline

BlueSabbath
02-11-2013, 10:21 AM
Another thing to consider with Jesse Williams is that he's still improving. He played DE his first year at Alabama (situational plays he moved to tackle) and showed that he could pretty well for his size. He only played NG one year at Alabama. He was a team leader, strongest player on the team and had a really good motor. I agree he is a bit one dimensional, but I think that's from only having one year at the position. He also played a little full back in goalline situations.