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View Full Version : Rebuilding year?



Buddy333
02-06-2013, 04:21 PM
The cap situation is a mess and now they are cutting guys and making holes they may not be able to fill. What are they going to do at DT? One good player, possibly two older players, one guy that hasn't played in three years, and a rookie coming off an ACL tear. They where already not the best LB unit and they let Boley go too. If they move Kiwi back to DE because they will probably lose Osi who will play LB? Will they resign Beatty? The secondary is up in the air as well. Hope they draft extremely well and find some cheap FA's.

gumby74
02-06-2013, 04:22 PM
i think it's possible. take a step back before you take 2 steps forward.

Rudyy
02-06-2013, 04:23 PM
Change is inevitable.

FlyingTruck
02-06-2013, 04:23 PM
I believe this is the year we will really see what this front office is made of. We either effectively get younger, faster, and overall better, or.....we crash and burn.

mikeq6722
02-06-2013, 04:24 PM
What did Canty, Bradshaw and Boley do for this team that David Wilson, Jacquan Williams and a new DT cant? Nothing.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:24 PM
Boley was barely playing by the end of the year, Canty missed half the games. Bradshaw could barely walk at the end of the year and looked like he had nothing.

Boley and Bradshaws replacements are already on the roster in J Will/Paysinger and David Wilson.

Canty is a bit more difficult to replace, but it can be done, and for far less than $8 million.

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:24 PM
I like the fact that Reese is finally putting an end to the Ponzi scheme... I've said before that i'd be willing to sack 2013 as a rebuilding (more like retooling though because we're not starting from scratch) year, but that would necessarily entail cutting names taking up a lot of money and eating the cap hits up front, leaving us with a ton of cap space for 2014. Names like DD, Canty, Bradshaw, Boley, and Toaster... 3 of those have already been cut.

ny06
02-06-2013, 04:26 PM
I tend to look at it as retooling over rebuilding

BlueReign
02-06-2013, 04:27 PM
They will compete next year. As someone said above, the guys that were cut weren't doing very much for us last year and the one who did make an impact (Canty) can be replaced for cheaper. When Eli goes and when we cut many players with no suitable backups, THEN we will be rebuilding.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:28 PM
The cap situation is a mess and now they are cutting guys and making holes they may not be able to fill. What are they going to do at DT? One good player, possibly two older players, one guy that hasn't played in three years, and a rookie coming off an ACL tear. They where already not the best LB unit and they let Boley go too. If they move Kiwi back to DE because they will probably lose Osi who will play LB? Will they resign Beatty? The secondary is up in the air as well. Hope they draft extremely well and find some cheap FA's.

You can't determine that until the carousel stops and everyone gets on and off. Right now I see it as making room for Beatty, Bennett, Nicks, Cruz, and maybe Boothe

Drez
02-06-2013, 04:28 PM
I tend to look at it as retooling over rebuilding^^This right here^^

titwio
02-06-2013, 04:31 PM
It's more like adjusting to the new CBA. The Giants had a lot heavy contracts that were made prior and all the re-structuring in the world couldn't fix it. Once they unload some these overpaid players, the Giants can rid themselves of these headaches and become a more balanced team again.

All in my opinion of course...

TheBookOfEli
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
With the way things are going, we'll have great amount of cap space in 2014 and that i like. Sucks, 2013 will be a season with expectations very low so the "Hosting the Superbowl" curse will live on.

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:33 PM
It's more like adjusting to the new CBA. The Giants had a lot heavy contracts that were made prior and all the re-structuring in the world couldn't fix it. Once they unload some these overpaid players, the Giants can rid themselves of these headaches and become a more balanced team again.

All in my opinion of course...

It's also going to give us an asston of cap space in 2014... we might be making Philadelphia-levels of signings next offseason.

jaygoon
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
What did Canty, Bradshaw and Boley do for this team that David Wilson, Jacquan Williams and a new DT cant? Nothing.

This, no other further comments should be made.

Redeyejedi
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
I like the fact that Reese is finally putting an end to the Ponzi scheme... I've said before that i'd be willing to sack 2013 as a rebuilding (more like retooling though because we're not starting from scratch) year, but that would necessarily entail cutting names taking up a lot of money and eating the cap hits up front, leaving us with a ton of cap space for 2014. Names like DD, Canty, Bradshaw, Boley, and Toaster... 3 of those have already been cut. They will still be Wildcard competitive even with all those cuts. Have to clear room to resign the younger players.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:34 PM
It's also going to give us an asston of cap space in 2014... we might be making Philadelphia-levels of signings next offseason.

Then you are back in this situation with a bunch of players needing to be cut....

Or you win 2 games like Philly and still have to cut a bunch of guys

nycsportzfan
02-06-2013, 04:36 PM
The cap situation is a mess and now they are cutting guys and making holes they may not be able to fill. What are they going to do at DT? One good player, possibly two older players, one guy that hasn't played in three years, and a rookie coming off an ACL tear. They where already not the best LB unit and they let Boley go too. If they move Kiwi back to DE because they will probably lose Osi who will play LB? Will they resign Beatty? The secondary is up in the air as well. Hope they draft extremely well and find some cheap FA's. Nah, were just gonna plug in players most call busts, when in reality, they have been simply doing what we all thought they were when they were drafted, and thats watch and learn, nad play little, and wait ur turn...

Were simply high on guys like Jaquain Willliams, James Brewer, Jayron HOsley, and others...

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:37 PM
It's also going to give us an asston of cap space in 2014... we might be making Philadelphia-levels of signings next offseason.

2014 and beyond if they reduce restructuring to a trickle. It's a response to having $ issues with players like Beatty, Bennett, Nicks, and Cruz who you want to can't afford because of your previous philosophy.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:38 PM
With the way things are going, we'll have great amount of cap space in 2014 and that i like. Sucks, 2013 will be a season with expectations very low so the "Hosting the Superbowl" curse will live on.

Why do we have to lower out expectations based on what's happened to date?

nycsportzfan
02-06-2013, 04:40 PM
THis happens to teams all the time.. They win and guys get resigned, and before long, they start not playing as good as they did, but ur now over capped, and u simply start letting the dead weight go, and start over with a core 3-6 players sprinkled throughout that stay, like ELI, NICKS(prob), CRUZ, BEATTY(prob)..etc

Its not like we don't got guys who been groomed for starting down the line if or when there time came up, like a James Brewer, Jaquain Williams, Mark Herzlich, Rueben Randle, etc etc..

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:40 PM
You know, now that I think about it, this means we can tender Cruz this year, and give him the payday he deserves in 2014...

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
THis happens to teams all the time.. They win and guys get resigned, and before long, they start not playing as good as they did, but ur now over capped, and u simply start letting the dead weight go, and start over with a core 3-6 players sprinkled throughout that stay, like ELI, NICKS(prob), CRUZ, BEATTY(prob)..etc

Its not like we don't got guys who been groomed for starting down the line if or when there time came up, like a James Brewer, Jaquain Williams, Mark Herzlich, Rueben Randle, etc etc..

The "next man up" is nice when it works. Williams, Randle towards teh end of the season, yes. Herzlich is a flat out bust (he's basically Blackburn minus the football intelligence to make up for low athleticism), and Brewer can't get playing time over DIEHL...

Juanito
02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
More established names to be cut over the next days and weeks, I'd assume. I totally agree with a clearout of sorts of the deadwood.

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 04:42 PM
If they can sign Beatty and pick up a RT the offense should be fine but they will miss Bradshaw unless someone else shows the same heart he has. On defense they have to figure out the DT position. It's not just about signing one guy, they need depth too. What about the secondary? They need help there too. Who gets cut and who stays? Rolle makes to much money and doesn't play all that well. Do they keep KP? Webster? So many questions to answer. At least the offseason won't be boring.

Rusty192
02-06-2013, 04:43 PM
I think the word 'rebuilding' is subjective. It means different things to different people.

Some look at it as a situation with a team like the Browns, others see it as fixing an already good team and making it better.

titwio
02-06-2013, 04:45 PM
Were simply high on guys like Jaquain Willliams, James Brewer, Jayron HOsley, and others...

James Brewer stepping up this year would be HUGE.

Redeyejedi
02-06-2013, 04:46 PM
The "next man up" is nice when it works. Williams, Randle towards teh end of the season, yes. Herzlich is a flat out bust (he's basically Blackburn minus the football intelligence to make up for low athleticism), and Brewer can't get playing time over DIEHL...Herzlich is an UFA doesnt really go into the bust category

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 04:48 PM
James Brewer stepping up this year would be HUGE.We can hope. While we are hoping lets also hope that Austin can finally make it on the field and produce. That would be a great help.

Toadofsteel
02-06-2013, 04:48 PM
If they can sign Beatty and pick up a RT the offense should be fine but they will miss Bradshaw unless someone else shows the same heart he has. On defense they have to figure out the DT position. It's not just about signing one guy, they need depth too. What about the secondary? They need help there too. Who gets cut and who stays? Rolle makes to much money and doesn't play all that well. Do they keep KP? Webster? So many questions to answer. At least the offseason won't be boring.

I think Wilson has just as much heart as Bradshaw, if his speech during that USA vs Canada college game is any indication. He just needs to work on his blocking technique. Bradshaw being released may signal that the team is satisfied with his development (though I wouldn't mind him spending a bunch of the offseason in Timex with the Hynocerous).

I agree DT needs to be figured out. Cutting Canty may very well signal that JR feels confident that Kuhn will make a nice recovery from his ACL. Kid played well before going down, and honestly our run defense was better in the first half of the season. Depth would be nice to get though, but we can find that in the draft and UDFA.

Honestly I think Hosley will have a better sophomore season than he did this year. By the end he was starting to look better, and you had Flacco, when presented with a choice, choosing to throw on Toaster more than Hosley. I wouldn't be surprised to see a release in the CB department, but that would mean we need depth in the draft.

At safety, I think we can get away with tendering Stevie and cutting Rolle. KP/Stevie would be a nice combo, with Hill and Sash backing up. Safety is the position i'm least worried about (only way i would be worried is if we lost both KP and Stevie to other teams)...

Drez
02-06-2013, 04:49 PM
The "next man up" is nice when it works. Williams, Randle towards teh end of the season, yes. Herzlich is a flat out bust (he's basically Blackburn minus the football intelligence to make up for low athleticism), and Brewer can't get playing time over DIEHL...How can an undrafted free agent be a bust?

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 04:50 PM
You know, now that I think about it, this means we can tender Cruz this year, and give him the payday he deserves in 2014...

Or we can outright make a deal with Cruz that has a heavy back load with these cuts being evidence that they will continue to make money available

nycsportzfan
02-06-2013, 04:50 PM
The "next man up" is nice when it works. Williams, Randle towards teh end of the season, yes. Herzlich is a flat out bust (he's basically Blackburn minus the football intelligence to make up for low athleticism), and Brewer can't get playing time over DIEHL... Ya, but thats what u see.. U call guys like James Brewer and Mark Herzlich busts, but u have no clue how far there coming in practice and what not.. Herzlich wasen't on the field enough to call a bust or good player.. My gut agrees hes not gonna pan out, but for all we know, hes shown giants brass enough, to warrent given a bigger opp going forward , based on tons and tons of practice and getting to know em time...

Also, of course sometimes the "next man up" philosphy dosen't work.. Just like go buy urself a FA dosen't work always(more often then not really).. At least most of the time there cheaper options, and it dosen't hurt as bad if they don't pan out and u gotta go another direction...

Theres so many football players out there that would be better then or as good as alot of players who get more playing time and have made a name for themselves simply because they never got a true Oppurtunity...

I believe in drafting, and giving ur guys legit chances and sprinkiling in some solid FA's...

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 04:52 PM
They should also secure the younger Safeties now especially Hill.

I Hate T.O.
02-06-2013, 04:53 PM
I think they can fill Canty with any vet on the market...Canty was terrible against the run...there are some decent DT's available that may not cost much...dont have to be superstars..

I Hate T.O.
02-06-2013, 04:53 PM
They should also secure the younger Safeties now especially Hill.

I agree

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 04:55 PM
They should also secure the younger Safeties now especially Hill.

Hill has a 3 year contract. Stevie Brown is a RFA, so he will be tendered at least.

titwio
02-06-2013, 04:58 PM
^ Yeah, the Giants don't need to do anything with Hill. He's been productive when he's gotten a chance but he's still relatively unproven.

All in all though he's definitely an upgrade over Sash IMO.

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 05:02 PM
^ Yeah, the Giants don't need to do anything with Hill. He's been productive when he's gotten a chance but he's still relatively unproven.All in all though he's definitely an upgrade over Sash IMO.I think Hill is going to be a star. Was just thinking maybe they could lock him up cheaper now.

BlueBlooded1979
02-06-2013, 05:07 PM
What did we really lose here ?

Boley - He wasn't the same in coverage as year past and was never a hard nose hitter. This isn't a strong LB group regardless so pouring money into it to be below average is silly. The defense runs on the DL getting pressure and the LBs are an afterthought.

Canty - Was only healthy for 10-11 games a year. Good at defending the run, but wasn't a pass rusher and couldn't collapse the pocket for our ends. His production can be replaced by a 1m-2m a year guy.

Bradshaw - Foot issues on a yearly basis but a modest contract for a starter. The biggest issues are the cap savings is the smallest and he is the only back on the roster capable of pass protection. Wilson and Scott are the other guys signed for next year. Neither is a full time back.

titwio
02-06-2013, 05:07 PM
I think Hill is going to be a star. Was just thinking maybe they could lock him up cheaper now.

I could see them doing that if they decide to not re-sign Phillips. If they're thinking the future at safety is Brown and Hill after Rolle is gone...I could see it making sense.

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 05:09 PM
Maybe they cut Rolle?

MattyD21
02-06-2013, 05:11 PM
You cant call it rebuilding with Eli still throwing the rock

rxc999
02-06-2013, 05:11 PM
i see it as re-tooling not really rebuilding until we have Eli..

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 05:12 PM
Wilson and Scott are the other guys signed for next year. Neither is a full time back.

Brown is essentially resigned for next year as well. He is a restricted rights free agent, he cant talk to other teams unless the giants chose not to tender him.

jomo
02-06-2013, 05:41 PM
i think it's possible. take a step back before you take 2 steps forward.I believe that these cuts are actually steps forward.

Gmen2005
02-06-2013, 05:45 PM
As long as they have Eli, they will compete

nycsportzfan
02-06-2013, 05:45 PM
Brown is essentially resigned for next year as well. He is a restricted rights free agent, he cant talk to other teams unless the giants chose not to tender him. Not to mention, we have David Wilson, and as we've shown in the past, its not as hard to find a backup take some carries running back in the draft or even as a UDF.. Another words, its not that big a priority, even after letting Bradshaw go..

Look at guys like Jacobs, D.Ward, Bradshaw, and Andre Brown.. All of em were taken 4th rd right through undrafted... Reese is good at finding RB's in mid to late rds, and even as a UDF.. Were gonna be fine there.. Theres plenty of RB's in this yrs class even, who i think could simply back up a guy like Wilson next yr...

jomo
02-06-2013, 05:50 PM
Not to mention, we have David Wilson, and as we've shown in the past, its not as hard to find a backup take some carries running back in the draft or even as a UDF.. Another words, its not that big a priority, even after letting Bradshaw go..

Look at guys like Jacobs, D.Ward, Bradshaw, and Andre Brown.. All of em were taken 4th rd right through undrafted... Reese is good at finding RB's in mid to late rds, and even as a UDF.. Were gonna be fine there.. Theres plenty of RB's in this yrs class even, who i think could simply back up a guy like Wilson next yr...Running backs are so much less important than OL.

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 05:54 PM
Looking at the numbers it may look like these are good cuts. Still going to miss Bradshaw though.

slipknottin
02-06-2013, 05:57 PM
Running backs are so much less important than OL.

Disagree. Think HBs make the running game, not the OL.

No coincidence that both Wilson and Brown had better ypc than Bradshaw

titwio
02-06-2013, 05:58 PM
Looking at the numbers it may look like these are good cuts. Still going to miss Bradshaw though.

Me too. The fire has definitely left the team with Strahan, Jacobs and Bradshaw. JPP is the guy that's going to need to take the reigns IMO.

flashnando
02-06-2013, 06:15 PM
Really?

Drez
02-06-2013, 06:17 PM
Disagree. Think HBs make the running game, not the OL.

No coincidence that both Wilson and Brown had better ypc than BradshawIt's definitely a combination of both. If the OL isn't opening holes, very few RBs are going to look good. However, a RB has to have the vision and patience to let holes open and the speed/quickness to hit the hole when it does. Bradshaw was definitely lacking in the patience and speed/quickness department last season.

Buddy333
02-06-2013, 06:40 PM
Need to see them carry the ball as much as Bradshaw did to compair their ypc.

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 06:45 PM
I believe that these cuts are actually steps forward.

+1 so far