PDA

View Full Version : Somewhat disgusted.



G-Men Surg.
02-06-2013, 09:37 PM
I've been a life long Giants fan ( 30 plus years and counting ) always been proud of this franchise and by God always will. I've seen through out the years tough FO personnel decisions made, Bavaro, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Burt, Jesse Armstead and the list goes on and on, all those decision based on contract disputes, injury issues and when FA era started the calls got tougher not only for the Giants but for all NFL teams. But one thing I would HATE seeing happening to this franchise in relation to the FO is decisions made by the presence of a $hi....ty salary cap situation inflated in the first place by the own team with irresponsible managment. I've always mocked teams that have lived all their lives under bad administrations putting their franchise at the bottom of salary caps by awful financial decisions , the Raiders amoung others are the laughing-stock of the NFL in this regard and year in and year out they keep it up. Reese has a difficult job no different compared with other GMs around the league but I can't seem to put this bad taste out of my mouth right now thinking that in a very good part this hard decisions cutting players have been taken based on awful cap managment ( huge contracts with no intentions to fulfill, constant contract restructuring asked for some players, etc ) . If this Is going to be a rough ride to keep us out of cap hell? Then fine but I don't want this to become a trend for the future, living in cap hell by the result of bad managment. Those, my two cents. Go Giants!

Flip Empty
02-06-2013, 09:43 PM
Yeah it's concerning, but Reese's cap management has resulted a Super Bowl.
What happens now will be a real test of his abilities, though. This team is starting to get to the point where it could quite easily slip into the dark ages.

jgiantfan
02-06-2013, 09:48 PM
I've been a life long Giants fan ( 30 plus years and counting ) always been proud of this franchise and by God always will. I've seen through out the years tough FO personnel decisions made, Bavaro, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Burt, Jesse Armstead and the list goes on and on, all those decision based on contract disputes, injury issues and when FA era started the calls got tougher not only for the Giants but for all NFL teams. But one thing I would HATE seeing happening to this franchise in relation to the FO is decisions made by the presence of a $hi....ty salary cap situation inflated in the first place by the own team with irresponsible managment. I've always mocked teams that have lived all their lives under bad administrations putting their franchise at the bottom of salary caps by awful financial decisions , the Raiders amoung others are the laughing-stock of the NFL in this regard and year in and year out they keep it up. Reese has a difficult job no different compared with other GMs around the league but I can't seem to put this bad taste out of my mouth right now thinking that in a very good part this hard decisiatons cutting players have been taken based on awful cap managment ( huge contracts with no intentions to fulfill, constant contract restructuring asked for some players, etc ) . If this Is going to be a rough ride to keep us out of cap hell? Then fine but I don't want this to become a trend for the future, living in cap hell by the result of bad managment. Those, my two cents. Go Giants! Great post. As Al Pacino said in Any Given Sunday. " Thatís football guys. Thatís all it is. Now, whattaya gonna do?

ozzie0075
02-06-2013, 09:49 PM
Unfortunately it is part of the business and it happens to teams that draft well and develop their players. These deals are made not knowing what will happen in the future. There is no way that Reese could a account for a guy like Cruz becoming what he has.

At the end of the day NFL contracts are not guaranteed and until they are cutting players before their contracts expire are part of the business.

Sean Montemayor
02-06-2013, 09:56 PM
I've been a life long Giants fan ( 30 plus years and counting ) always been proud of this franchise and by God always will. I've seen through out the years tough FO personnel decisions made, Bavaro, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Burt, Jesse Armstead and the list goes on and on, all those decision based on contract disputes, injury issues and when FA era started the calls got tougher not only for the Giants but for all NFL teams. But one thing I would HATE seeing happening to this franchise in relation to the FO is decisions made by the presence of a $hi....ty salary cap situation inflated in the first place by the own team with irresponsible managment. I've always mocked teams that have lived all their lives under bad administrations putting their franchise at the bottom of salary caps by awful financial decisions , the Raiders amoung others are the laughing-stock of the NFL in this regard and year in and year out they keep it up. Reese has a difficult job no different compared with other GMs around the league but I can't seem to put this bad taste out of my mouth right now thinking that in a very good part this hard decisions cutting players have been taken based on awful cap managment ( huge contracts with no intentions to fulfill, constant contract restructuring asked for some players, etc ) . If this Is going to be a rough ride to keep us out of cap hell? Then fine but I don't want this to become a trend for the future, living in cap hell by the result of bad managment. Those, my two cents. Go Giants! Well said G-Men surg. Two cents well spent. +1

GiantRoc
02-06-2013, 10:02 PM
I'm not sure with whom you are angry. The GM's job is to put as many of the best players he can get, on the team. To get pissed at a guy for finding so many gems seems unfair. The Giants have found and developed a lot of great talent. Now He's trying to keep as much as he can. I think the biggest problem is guys being torn between wanting to stay with a great organization and getting a huge payday. Reese is using every trick in the book to keep talent on board. If we didn't have such a great organization, these guys would not have restructured.

Changing personnel is part of the league now.
As much as it hurts to say good bye, we will loose good players. Let's see what the off season brings before we hang anyone.

ImElectric2
02-06-2013, 10:08 PM
I mean, I get where you're coming from to a point, but I gotta believe Reese and Co. (not to mention MOST competant GMs) look at things years in advance, not just year to year.

Granted, there's certain things that can't always be accounted for, but when you look at something like the Canty signing. People were all over Reese and mad about the money etc, but at the end of the day that move was instrumental in our title run last year.

Same could be said for the bounty given up for Eli. "Oh! The franchise has been mortaged for one guy! We could have had Merriman! Etc etc." Then we were stuck drafting a RB in the 7th round prior to the 2007 season and we expect that guy to contribute....oh wait...that was Bradshaw...who we're all up in arms about (note* I LOVE Ahmad and am heartbroken he's gone, but if we didn't see this writing on the wall prior to this most recent surgery we were just kidding ourselves...heck, we almost let him walk before the new contract. Didn't we bring in Snelling as a possible replacement??)

The point is, people get in a frenzy about putting off payments or trading picks, etc but the truth is you take what you can now that you know you need and cross certain bridges when you get there. I bet if Canty wasn't hurt and playing to the top of his ability consistantly we would not have made the cut. Same with Bradshaw. Truth is, they weren't so they're gone.

Its sort of like the adage of "1 in the hand worth 2 in the bush."

I dunno, I could keep going, but I feel my point is made.

And all that's not to say I'm not sad. I like Canty a lot too (even despite the smack that gets talked about him around here from time to time). You just got evolve with the team as it grows and sheds dead weight....even if you felt like that weight had become family.

gumby74
02-06-2013, 10:09 PM
Uhm. We have 2 SBs in the JR era. And all teams have to weasel their way around the cap. It's not just us. Every team has salary cap casualties. Not just us. Every team restructures. I don't see what all the fuss is about. People talk about how great JR's drafts are, but one thing that is never mentioned is the moves JR did NOT make out of panic.

One such case is when Burress shot himself. The entire board was clamoring for a free agent signing i.e. Braylon Edwards. What did JR do? He drafted a very inexpensive WR named Hakeem Nicks.

FBomb
02-06-2013, 10:14 PM
Show me a team who doesn't have cap "issues" and I'll show you a perennial basement dweller.

ozzie0075
02-06-2013, 10:17 PM
Show me a team who doesn't have cap "issues" and I'll show you a perennial basement dweller.

Agreed when you win you have good players that demand higher contracts. Simple as that.

JJC7301
02-06-2013, 10:21 PM
Unfortunately it is part of the business and it happens to teams that draft well and develop their players. These deals are made not knowing what will happen in the future. There is not way that Reese could a account for a guy like Cruz becoming what he has.

At the end of the day NFL contracts are not guaranteed and until they are cutting players before their contracts expire are part of the business.
+1. But I think that cutting AB was a bad idea. $3.75M for a RB who's a leader like he is, is as tough as he is, and protects the QB like he does is is worth that money.

And he was the last guy on this team that played with attitude and had a set of balls.

ozzie0075
02-06-2013, 10:23 PM
+1. But I think that cutting AB was a bad idea. $3.75M for a RB who's a leader like he is, is as tough as he is, and protects the QB like he does is is worth that money.

And he was the last guy on this team that played with attitude and had a set of balls.

I love AB but at some point all the foot operations are going to catch up with you. Perhaps the Giants bring him back with a cap friendly deal.

FloydEddings2
02-06-2013, 10:25 PM
To the original poster, you should be mad at the NFL and the artificial salary ceiling they created.

flashnando
02-06-2013, 10:37 PM
+1. But I think that cutting AB was a bad idea. $3.75M for a RB who's a leader like he is, is as tough as he is, and protects the QB like he does is is worth that money.

And he was the last guy on this team that played with attitude and had a set of balls.

As much as I loved watching AB play week in and week out, it simply comes down to......Keep AB or make room to sigh Cruz and Nicks. Im sorry but i rather sign both Cruz and Nicks and sacrifice AB. His foot injuries are soon to catch up to him.

Flip Empty
02-06-2013, 10:38 PM
To the original poster, you should be mad at the NFL and the artificial salary ceiling they created.
Nope, it keeps the league competitive. It's the team's job to stay within it.

GiantRoc
02-06-2013, 10:41 PM
+1. But I think that cutting AB was a bad idea. $3.75M for a RB who's a leader like he is, is as tough as he is, and protects the QB like he does is is worth that money.

And he was the last guy on this team that played with attitude and had a set of balls.

We don't really know if it was bad or not. There may have been medical issues. NFL RB's have about 5 yrs careers on avg. AB is there and pretty beat up. We all hate to lose guys, but sometimes its just time to say thank you and goodbye.

thegreatone
02-07-2013, 12:07 AM
Under the new cba don't all teams have to spend close to 100% of the salary cap? Thought I read that somewhere

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 12:15 AM
We don't really know if it was bad or not. There may have been medical issues. NFL RB's have about 5 yrs careers on avg. AB is there and pretty beat up. We all hate to lose guys, but sometimes its just time to say thank you and goodbye. +1

Giants5699
02-07-2013, 12:20 AM
I'm disgusted that New Yorkers allow philly cheese steak to be called "philly cheese steak" in New York. They should call it "New York Cheese Steak" in New York. Also New England Clam chowder should be renamed the "Lower Manhattan Clam Chowder.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:03 AM
I'm not sure with whom you are angry. The GM's job is to put as many of the best players he can get, on the team. To get pissed at a guy for finding so many gems seems unfair. The Giants have found and developed a lot of great talent. Now He's trying to keep as much as he can. I think the biggest problem is guys being torn between wanting to stay with a great organization and getting a huge payday. Reese is using every trick in the book to keep talent on board. If we didn't have such a great organization, these guys would not have restructured.

Changing personnel is part of the league now.
As much as it hurts to say good bye, we will loose good players. Let's see what the off season brings before we hang anyone.

Indeed, trying to balance the salary cap and hard decisions about personnel are part of the game and GMs earn their paycheck every year. I'm not angry at anyone in particular bro but I guess I'm disgusted about the salary cap hit this year because everyone saw it coming with lots of inflated deals and so many contracts than needed restructuring in consequence. I guess everybody ( players and FO ) accept the unwritten rules of the game and they play by them, well-aware of the risks and benefits of the business. I know this is a phase any team goes through every once in a while but it seems that I just can't get used to it even with all my years loving the game. Call me a romantic but thats just the way I'm wired.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:08 AM
Under the new cba don't all teams have to spend close to 100% of the salary cap? Thought I read that somewhere
I'm not implying that the Giants don't spend enough or don't wish for them to do it but just do it wisely and in a responsable manner .

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:18 AM
Nope, it keeps the league competitive. It's the team's job to stay within it.
It's the maneuvers to get you under the cap that are killing teams, and those maneuvers are in so many cases irresponsible in the cap's health in long term. Its easy to understand , in life you have to adjust to your own budget, you can't spend more than your earning.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 01:21 AM
you just can't be afraid to let guys with huge contracts go. even if you like them. if it doesnt make sense cap wise or they under perform pull the trigger on the release button and now you have a nice chunk of $$$ to spend getting better or filling more than one spot.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:23 AM
I mean, I get where you're coming from to a point, but I gotta believe Reese and Co. (not to mention MOST competant GMs) look at things years in advance, not just year to year.



Some of the moves made in recent years seem like they just not seeing things in advance.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:30 AM
you just can't be afraid to let guys with huge contracts go. even if you like them. if it doesnt make sense cap wise or they under perform pull the trigger on the release button and now you have a nice chunk of $$$ to spend getting better or filling more than one spot.

You are correct but the truth of the matter is that I can't seem to get accustomed to the " cold " side of the business. I guess thats why I'm not a GM , LOL !

Harooni
02-07-2013, 01:33 AM
You are correct but the truth of the matter is that I can't seem to get accustomed to the " cold " side of the business. I guess thats why I'm not a GM , LOL ! yeah its tough, i know iv fired people in my life that i liked. but its business and if a player is due to take up 9 mil in cap space he better be good and low injury risk.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:35 AM
I love AB but at some point all the foot operations are going to catch up with you. Perhaps the Giants bring him back with a cap friendly deal.
AB mentioned he was open to it but by the looks of some reports it seems the cuts are final.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:47 AM
yeah its tough, i know iv fired people in my life that i liked. but its business and if a player is due to take up 9 mil in cap space he better be good and low injury risk.
Yep, nature always takes its course, there's always someone better and healthier than you. OUCH !

BurnerNYG
02-07-2013, 04:12 AM
Build a bridge and get over it. As long as we have Eli, we'll be competitive plus Wilson can use the snaps to help boost up his confidence without constantly looking over his shoulder. Besides, Rb's are easy to find and I trust that Reese has a plan. As far as the defense, it's time to rebuild and get younger and get some guys in here who can hopefully stay healthy. You think this is a hard pill to swallow? Imagine being a Pats fan? I thank all the players we lost and I wish them the best... especially Bradshaw.

Rat_bastich
02-07-2013, 05:29 AM
I'm not so worried about how much the Giants spend as long as they can manipulate the numbers without blowing up the whole team when it comes time to get under the cap. I think, compared to other NFL teams, they have been pretty conservative and actually get more bang for the buck. I believe even if they had a lot of room under the current cap they still wouldn't go after star players and would still bargain shop.

I think this is why I don't enjoy this part of the off season as much because it normally comes down to number crunching. I usually don't pay too much attention until right before the draft. It is kind of like the Winter Meetings in baseball.

Captain Chaos
02-07-2013, 05:31 AM
Show me a team who doesn't have cap "issues" and I'll show you a perennial basement dweller.

Lets try the Patriots for one.

SweetZombieJesus
02-07-2013, 06:41 AM
There is no way that Reese could a account for a guy like Cruz becoming what he has.

He could have locked him up early at a bargain price, which is something that was done quite often when he took over from Accorsi.

I'm all kinds of shocked that we've handled Cruz the way we have.

SweetZombieJesus
02-07-2013, 06:44 AM
Nope, it keeps the league competitive. It's the team's job to stay within it.

We probably don't want the MLB situation where the same 4-5 teams outspend everybody else, but I'd like to see an exception for resigning home-grown players like the Larry Byrd exception.

TCHOF
02-07-2013, 06:47 AM
Show me a team who doesn't have cap "issues" and I'll show you a perennial basement dweller.

Exactly, the Ravens have a very difficult salary cap situation to deal with this offseason.

Redeyejedi
02-07-2013, 06:47 AM
Lets try the Patriots for one.They havent won in almost a decade

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 06:47 AM
I think, compared to other NFL teams, they have been pretty conservative and actually get more bang for the buck. I believe even if they had a lot of room under the current cap they still wouldn't go after star players and would still bargain shop.

Rolle, Canty and Baas?


They havent won in almost a decade
But they're hardly a perennial basement dweller.


Build a bridge and get over it.
The Giants tried that last season and it didn't work.

http://i.imgur.com/iN0QK.gif

TCHOF
02-07-2013, 06:51 AM
He could have locked him up early at a bargain price, which is something that was done quite often when he took over from Accorsi.

I'm all kinds of shocked that we've handled Cruz the way we have.

How early? He exploded the first year he played . . . after that season there was no way that he was going to sign at a "bargain price". Are you suggesting that they should have signed him to a long term deal before the 2011 season or in the middle of that season?

Given how fast Cruz exploded on the scene, it is pretty hard to fault Reese for his handling of the situation.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 06:57 AM
I've been a life long Giants fan ( 30 plus years and counting ) always been proud of this franchise and by God always will. I've seen through out the years tough FO personnel decisions made, Bavaro, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Burt, Jesse Armstead and the list goes on and on, all those decision based on contract disputes, injury issues and when FA era started the calls got tougher not only for the Giants but for all NFL teams. But one thing I would HATE seeing happening to this franchise in relation to the FO is decisions made by the presence of a $hi....ty salary cap situation inflated in the first place by the own team with irresponsible managment. I've always mocked teams that have lived all their lives under bad administrations putting their franchise at the bottom of salary caps by awful financial decisions , the Raiders amoung others are the laughing-stock of the NFL in this regard and year in and year out they keep it up. Reese has a difficult job no different compared with other GMs around the league but I can't seem to put this bad taste out of my mouth right now thinking that in a very good part this hard decisions cutting players have been taken based on awful cap managment ( huge contracts with no intentions to fulfill, constant contract restructuring asked for some players, etc ) . If this Is going to be a rough ride to keep us out of cap hell? Then fine but I don't want this to become a trend for the future, living in cap hell by the result of bad managment. Those, my two cents. Go Giants!

You can only judge success by the results. So far, Reese's results have been pretty good.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 07:00 AM
He could have locked him up early at a bargain price, which is something that was done quite often when he took over from Accorsi.

I'm all kinds of shocked that we've handled Cruz the way we have.

They've had Cruz at a bargain price for three years and are about to do it again if he has to be tendered. That's just how the process works. With the recent releases, I am convinced Reese is going to do everything he can to sign Nicks and Cruz long term. But let's not kid ourselves, Nicks and Cruz have to make good faith efforts in those negotiations.

SweetZombieJesus
02-07-2013, 07:01 AM
How early? He exploded the first year he played . . . after that season there was no way that he was going to sign at a "bargain price". Are you suggesting that they should have signed him to a long term deal before the 2011 season or in the middle of that season?

Given how fast Cruz exploded on the scene, it is pretty hard to fault Reese for his handling of the situation.

Every day they wait the price goes up.

I would have re-upped him in mid-2011 at a bargain. As soon as it was clear that 2010 preseason wasn't a fluke... IIRC he had a bust-out in the Eagles game in 2011. You could have had him relatively cheap.

The longer you wait the more expensive he becomes -- and his ego will be hurt as well.

Reese used to be good at resigning guys early at bargain prices, and we'd sign young players long term at below market value. Tuck is a good example, even though he's falling off he's played for years underpaid.

gumby74
02-07-2013, 08:44 AM
Show me a team who doesn't have cap "issues" and I'll show you a perennial basement dweller.


Lets try the Patriots for one.

and there's a reason why the Patriots are the cream of the crop when it comes to front office. although it helps when you have arguably the best QB of all time on your team. The eagles also.

I'm huge Reese homer, but his FA signings have been - i suppose like other FA signings. Spent too much. Got too little.

But hey, we got a SB out of it.

TrickAssP
02-07-2013, 09:04 AM
Look all this cap talk is nonsense, at the end of the day you gotta take being a fan as taking a ride. We have been at the top of the coaster for two championships in recent years and inevitably you have to come down from there. These new moves of releasing Bradshaw etc. although the logic may confound and be difficult to take emotionally, its a ride. I want to win every game the Giants play but really its about seeing what we field this coming year personnel wise and their ability to rise to the occasion. If we lose Cruz because of any reason it will be a real bummer but that's all. Its a trip for sure and I'm as excited for this season than maybe even last year. We'll see what happens, I'm betting on good things but time will tell, that's what being a fan is about.

TCHOF
02-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Every day they wait the price goes up.

I would have re-upped him in mid-2011 at a bargain. As soon as it was clear that 2010 preseason wasn't a fluke... IIRC he had a bust-out in the Eagles game in 2011. You could have had him relatively cheap.

The longer you wait the more expensive he becomes -- and his ego will be hurt as well.

Reese used to be good at resigning guys early at bargain prices, and we'd sign young players long term at below market value. Tuck is a good example, even though he's falling off he's played for years underpaid.

No offense, but no legitimate businessman, and certainly no legitimate NFL executive, would have signed Cruz to a significant long term deal in the middle of 2011, with only a few good games under his belt. Plus, we have no idea whether Cruz would have signed for a "bargain price" once he realized that 2011 was becoming a break out season for him. I really don't know why he would do that.

The circumstance that we are in with Cruz's contract isn't anybody's fault. In fact, we're in this circumstance because of a great thing -- we signed an undrafted FA who turned out to be one of the best players at his position. I'll take these kinds of problems all day long!

BROADWAYSTORM
02-07-2013, 10:29 AM
I don't see how any of the players cut were huge losses for the Giants. On the contrary in the case of Boley and Canty it opens up a spot that was fulfilled by overpayed underperforming players for more hungry inexpensive and perhaps talented guys. The only thing we lost was Ahmad's toughness but his ability we did not lose.

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 10:31 AM
you just can't be afraid to let guys with huge contracts go. even if you like them. if it doesnt make sense cap wise or they under perform pull the trigger on the release button and now you have a nice chunk of $$$ to spend getting better or filling more than one spot. Exactly. +1

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 10:32 AM
I don't see how any of the players cut were huge losses for the Giants. On the contrary in the case of Boley and Canty it opens up a spot that was fulfilled by overpayed underperforming players for more hungry inexpensive and perhaps talented guys. The only thing we lost was Ahmad's toughness but his ability we did not lose. Yes, and the Wilson/Brown duo will gain toughness this offseason.

thegreatone
02-07-2013, 12:22 PM
I'm not implying that the Giants don't spend enough or don't wish for them to do it but just do it wisely and in a responsable manner .The problem though is if you have to spend close to 100% of the cap,and most contracts go up every year, your gonna have to cut players like this every year if the cap doesn't rise to meet your cap needs. This was a real head scratcher when I heard about it during the cba talks. I guess you can just rework contracts of those that are worth it but that's a lot of extra work.

GameTime
02-07-2013, 12:27 PM
ehh.....most teams that are year in and year out contenders do have cap issues.

G-Men Surg.
02-08-2013, 11:17 AM
They've had Cruz at a bargain price for three years and are about to do it again if he has to be tendered. That's just how the process works. With the recent releases, I am convinced Reese is going to do everything he can to sign Nicks and Cruz long term. But let's not kid ourselves, Nicks and Cruz have to make good faith efforts in those negotiations.
Both you guys are right. But players nowadays ( and don't blame them ) play hard ball trying to get the big fat contract , front loaded with huge chunks of guaranteed money . Hey its a business like FO mentions all the time when they let someone walk. So if Cruz really, really wants to stay he has to make like you said a great faith effort to make it hapoen. Thing is " faith " is running thin in the NFL, just ask Ahmad, Chris and Boley. We'll see.

Greg Schiano
02-08-2013, 11:27 AM
Show me a team who doesn't have cap "issues" and I'll show you a perennial basement dweller.

FML.

TroyArcher
02-08-2013, 11:56 AM
Free agency and salary caps has done alot to damage loyalty in my opinion. Revolving door of players year to year. Good for parity but I am not a fan of parity.

FBomb
02-08-2013, 03:16 PM
Lets try the Patriots for one.

There's always an exception, but they do have the benefit of playing in the AFC East. Getting spotted 6 games a season and winning your division gets you a playoff birth.

Rat_bastich
02-08-2013, 10:12 PM
Rolle, Canty and Baas?


But they're hardly a perennial basement dweller.


The Giants tried that last season and it didn't work.

http://i.imgur.com/iN0QK.gif

As I said, compared to other NFL teams they are pretty conservative. Rolle, Canty and Baas are players that were brought in over a long stretch of time. Other teams usually try to bring in one or two star players a year.

JJC7301
02-09-2013, 12:27 AM
As much as I loved watching AB play week in and week out, it simply comes down to......Keep AB or make room to sigh Cruz and Nicks. Im sorry but i rather sign both Cruz and Nicks and sacrifice AB. His foot injuries are soon to catch up to him.
I know that's what everyone's thinking, but can we (or any team) afford to lock up that much money on 2 WR's of the caliber of Nicks and Cruz? I'd pay one or the other, but trade one of them for draft picks regardless of AB.

G-Men Surg.
02-09-2013, 02:31 AM
He could have locked him up early at a bargain price, which is something that was done quite often when he took over from Accorsi.

I'm all kinds of shocked that we've handled Cruz the way we have.
The reason Reese couldn't signed Cruz early as well as other young talent players on the team is because he's been draging to much cap money year in and year out restructuring so many deals. That been said the Giants depend alot on developing their own players to fill the void when vets leave for " greener pastures "

yatitle
02-09-2013, 09:29 AM
The reason Reese couldn't signed Cruz early as well as other young talent players on the team is because he's been draging to much cap money year in and year out restructuring so many deals. That been said the Giants depend alot on developing their own players to fill the void when vets leave for " greener pastures "

The reasons he was restructuring year in and year out is because the clock is ticking on the number of years his franchise QB can play at a high level. You never "sacrifice" a year in the NFL as long as you have a franchise QB. Make the hard cap decisions but keep enough on the field so you can compete for a playoff spot and as the Giants have proven get in and you always have a chance. What you can't do is what the Chargers have done wasting Rivers' pprime with Norv Turner as coach and AJ Smith as GM.

bigjeep
02-10-2013, 06:00 AM
The team that Reese inherited is disappearing rapidly. Lets see what he can build. FA will be the death of the NFL just like the NBA and MLB. Revolving door teams. The hard cap is the only thing keeping the NFL from spinning out of control like the other two leagues. If the hard cap dissapears, the Mara's better open up their wallets or fall far behind. They have always been tight with the dollar.

Rat_bastich
02-10-2013, 06:34 AM
The team that Reese inherited is disappearing rapidly. Lets see what he can build. FA will be the death of the NFL just like the NBA and MLB. Revolving door teams. The hard cap is the only thing keeping the NFL from spinning out of control like the other two leagues. If the hard cap dissapears, the Mara's better open up their wallets or fall far behind. They have always been tight with the dollar.

The current Plan A Free Agency was implemented in 1993 and the game has gained in popularity. I don't think Free Agency will have any negative effect any time soon.

penguinfarmer
02-10-2013, 06:38 AM
Was it some poor mismanagement? Yes. However, I'm hardly going to codify Reese with some of the GMs of habitual losing teams. The Jets hired Tannenbaum for his reputation as a "capologist". Not only was that an epic failure of cap management, but that team also went through years of talent deprivation as well. While inflated and perhaps overpaid, at least the players signed to their deals played their roles on a team that won a Superbowl.

These large contracts are easy to blast in hindsight. However, there was also the CBA mess that drastically altered the cap once a new agreement was made.

Lastly, yes it's hard to keep players. It becomes even harder when you strike more success in the drafts as talent is expensive to keep in the FA era. The starting 22 of this past season had 7 players not drafted by the Giants. That includes Antrel Rolle, Chris Canty, Michael Boley, Kevin Boothe, David Baas, Martellus Bennett and Eli himself, who was technically drafted by the Chargers. The teams that consist of predominantly drafted starters include teams like Green Bay, Baltimore and SF. Those teams are bottom of the barrel correct? The last two SB teams are losing players as well due to their own cap restrictions.

gmen46
02-10-2013, 04:32 PM
I've been a life long Giants fan ( 30 plus years and counting ) always been proud of this franchise and by God always will. I've seen through out the years tough FO personnel decisions made, Bavaro, Banks, Pepper Johnson, Burt, Jesse Armstead and the list goes on and on, all those decision based on contract disputes, injury issues and when FA era started the calls got tougher not only for the Giants but for all NFL teams. But one thing I would HATE seeing happening to this franchise in relation to the FO is decisions made by the presence of a $hi....ty salary cap situation inflated in the first place by the own team with irresponsible managment. I've always mocked teams that have lived all their lives under bad administrations putting their franchise at the bottom of salary caps by awful financial decisions , the Raiders amoung others are the laughing-stock of the NFL in this regard and year in and year out they keep it up. Reese has a difficult job no different compared with other GMs around the league but I can't seem to put this bad taste out of my mouth right now thinking that in a very good part this hard decisions cutting players have been taken based on awful cap managment ( huge contracts with no intentions to fulfill, constant contract restructuring asked for some players, etc ) . If this Is going to be a rough ride to keep us out of cap hell? Then fine but I don't want this to become a trend for the future, living in cap hell by the result of bad managment. Those, my two cents. Go Giants!

I'll say again: 4 out of the last 6 Super Bowl winners--Giants, Steelers, Saints, Giants--entered this off season over the cap. And a 5th SB winner, the Ravens, are currently under, but if you think they are not facing "living in cap hell" once they sign a huge contract with Flacco by this coming August at latest, you are living in Fantasy Land.

Additionally, the Packers are a mere $5.8 mil below the cap this off season and facing some hard roster choices this off season as well, just like the rest of us, in order to stay under.

Additionally, 3 of the last 6 SB losers--Cardinals, Steelers, and Forty Niners--are above the cap this off season.

Are you thinking the Steelers, Saints (both of whom are more over the cap than the Giants), Forty Niners, Packers are all "living in cap hell by the result of bad management" and as a result, they have no chance of returning to the SB in the next year or two, or three? Just the Giants are "guilty" of "bad management by virtue of bumping up against the cap ceiling most recent years?

It's not the fact of being at or over the cap limit each year that is at issue, or that matters.. It's how well a team consistently (or not) deals with the limit that matters.

I'd say the Giants, Steelers, Saints, Packers in particular have over the past 6 years done a good-to-superior job of handling the cap issues, while other teams like the Jets (currently highest over the cap, by $23 mil) and Cowboys ($21+ mil over) have consistently not handled their cap issues well.