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View Full Version : Great cuts by reese still not anyone that hard to cut yet.



Harooni
02-07-2013, 02:26 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

EnragedYouth85
02-07-2013, 02:30 AM
In my opinion there is no way we cut Rolle, we are already short one starting safety. I could see us cutting Webster though..

Harooni
02-07-2013, 02:31 AM
In my opinion there is no way we cut Rolle, we are already short one starting safety. I could see us cutting Webster though..

one has to ask himself, are these 10mil per players. thats all. if yes ok if not move foward.

NYG4lifeNYK
02-07-2013, 02:34 AM
You can't make a TON of cuts when we have so many gaping holes as it is. We only have so many draft picks and FA is proven to not be the answer year after year in the NFL.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 02:36 AM
true, but make a big cut, a though cut. Free up a huge chunk of cap space for the future. cut diehl and snee. something like that

NYG4lifeNYK
02-07-2013, 02:43 AM
true, but make a big cut, a though cut. Free up a huge chunk of cap space for the future. cut diehl and snee. something like that
I doubt Reese would cut Snee given his relationship to Coughlin.

GiantWarfare
02-07-2013, 02:45 AM
Barring some unforeseen circumstance, Rolle is going nowhere

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 02:52 AM
one has to ask himself, are these 10mil per players. thats all. if yes ok if not move foward. As cold and simple it may sound thats the honest truth.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 02:53 AM
I doubt Reese would cut Snee given his relationship to Coughlin. im not saying snee should be cut, but you shouldnt not cut a guy for favoritism. he he is taking up a huge chunk of cap and he is on the downside of his carrier its business.

ask yourself as gm is this player worth X dollars , what is the cap penalty like, can he play a full season?

Harooni
02-07-2013, 02:55 AM
Barring some unforeseen circumstance, Rolle is going nowhere i say stevie brown is fine and we could use the space to upgrade linebacker , tired of seing 2nd string guys as starters. we can draft a safety. tons in FA too to be over paying for that position.

EnragedYouth85
02-07-2013, 02:56 AM
one has to ask himself, are these 10mil per players. thats all. if yes ok if not move foward.

Do I think Rolle is worth 9m per year, no. Does Rolle make 9m per year? No... His cap hits are like this:

2010 2011 2012 2013 2014



4,750,000
1,250,000
6,750,000
7,000,000
7,000,000

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 02:57 AM
Barring some unforeseen circumstance, Rolle is going nowhere
Maybe but it was the same way of thinking about Canty and he was cut. A lot of folks thought Canty was going to be asked to redo his contract taking a paycut but not everyone saw his release coming.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 02:57 AM
Do I think Rolle is worth 9m per year, no. Does Rolle make 9m per year? No... His cap hits are like this:

2010 2011 2012 2013 2014



4,750,000
1,250,000
6,750,000
7,000,000
7,000,000





wrong sorry they rescrutured, his cap hit is now around 9.25

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

bansaw
02-07-2013, 02:58 AM
im not saying snee should be cut, but you shouldnt not cut a guy for favoritism. he he is taking up a huge chunk of cap and he is on the downside of his carrier its business.

ask yourself as gm is this player worth X dollars , what is the cap penalty like, can he play a full season?

Probowl

EnragedYouth85
02-07-2013, 03:00 AM
wrong sorry they rescrutured, his cap hit is now around 9.25

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

Well that's the teams fault then.. lol

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:00 AM
Probowl yes thats fine., he is a fan favorite. but declining and taking up a huge chunk. id be surprised he he gave us a full season next year.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:01 AM
Well that's the teams fault then.. lol lol i know its not his fault., front office inflated these contracts and put them off and created huge cap numbers.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:02 AM
Do I think Rolle is worth 9m per year, no. Does Rolle make 9m per year? No... His cap hits are like this:

2010 2011 2012 2013 2014



4,750,000
1,250,000
6,750,000
7,000,000
7,000,000




That's another cold hard fact but that been said no one force him to restructure . It just sucks when it all comes down to numbers.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:03 AM
you got diehl at almost 8 mill and snee at 9 . come on giants front office wake up. make some big cuts and take some cap penalties and fill in 2 holes with one guys salary.

bansaw
02-07-2013, 03:03 AM
yes thats fine., he is a fan favorite. but declining and taking up a huge chunk. id be surprised he he gave us a full season next year.

hasnt missed a start

EnragedYouth85
02-07-2013, 03:04 AM
lol i know its not his fault., front office inflated these contracts and put them off and created huge cap numbers.

Yup it does happen, and they do cut people. I just think they'd cut Webster way before they'd cut Rolle. They have around the same salary..

I say if they are going to be cutting any more vets it would be Diehl and Webster. I think Rolle and Tuck are safe.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:06 AM
webster sadly is our best corner. i say rolle because we have stevie brown and safety is an easier position to fill draft and fa wise.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:08 AM
lol i know its not his fault., front office inflated these contracts and put them off and created huge cap numbers.
That's what I've been mention in another thread, no financial resposibility, just going year to year . I guess FO wanted to squeeze out another championship before the $hi.. hit the fan.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:10 AM
That's what I've been mention in another thread, no financial resposibility, just going year to year . I guess FO wanted to squeeze out another championship before the $hi.. hit the fan. yeah , i hear you on that thread i agree. FO was like my uncle blowing charging stuff and saying he will pay it later. lol

i commend Reese for cutting canty and boley ,that was good moves.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:10 AM
you got diehl at almost 8 mill and snee at 9 . come on giants front office wake up. make some big cuts and take some cap penalties and fill in 2 holes with one guys salary.
Are you sure Harooni about those cap hits on Snee and Deihl ? I think they are lower.

EnragedYouth85
02-07-2013, 03:15 AM
webster sadly is our best corner. i say rolle because we have stevie brown and safety is an easier position to fill draft and fa wise.

I don't agree with that. Have you seen Webster the past few years? Prince is clearly our best CB on the team right now..

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:17 AM
Are you sure Harooni about those cap hits on Snee and Deihl ? I think they are lower. yeah that website is reliable they even already took Canty bradshaw and boley off that list and added up their dead money.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:18 AM
yeah , i hear you on that thread i agree. FO was like my uncle blowing charging stuff and saying he will pay it later. lol

i commend Reese for cutting canty and boley ,that was good moves.

LOL! Good moves indeed but let me ask you a question, do you think that this way of wiggle out of contract by Reese could make his reputation drop in the eyes of future FA players and agents in future signing negotiations.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:19 AM
I don't agree with that. Have you seen Webster the past few years? Prince is clearly our best CB on the team right now.. webster didnt do great but Prince is still young. i guess we will see. i dont trust prince is 100 percent healthy either. at least we have a few safeties.

tons of decent safeties in FA.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:20 AM
LOL! Good moves indeed but let me ask you a question, do you think that this way of wiggle out of contract by Reese could make his reputation drop in the eyes of future FA players and agents in future signing negotiations. no i dont think so it wont deter FA's , because they got big money off him , lol the linemen and rolle glady accepted money up front to restructure. now they can move on and make more too.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:23 AM
yeah that website is reliable they even already took Canty bradshaw and boley off that list and added up their dead money.
Wow, that's a lot of dough for those two. I didn't realize it was that high. Now I see the writting on the wall.

BlueBlooded1979
02-07-2013, 03:24 AM
I don't agree with that. Have you seen Webster the past few years? Prince is clearly our best CB on the team right now..
Prince is a better player than Webster but you need at least 3 CBs that can play. The jury is still out on Hosley and he seems to play nickel much better that corner.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:29 AM
we got a few safety FA's - Ronde Barber, Landry , chung , considine. demps. plenty of talent we can grab at a 3rd of the cost

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:32 AM
no i dont think so it wont deter FA's , because they got big money off him , lol the linemen and rolle glady accepted money up front to restructure. now they can move on and make more too.
All good moves by both parties, its a musical chairs game It all ends when tha last one is taken when the music stops, LOL ! Obviously the player is always going to be the one standing around in the end.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:33 AM
we got a few safety FA's - Ronde Barber, Landry , chung , considine. demps. plenty of talent we can grab at a 3rd of the cost
One man's trash another man's treasure.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:38 AM
One man's trash another man's treasure. exactly , they get cut because of huge cap space taken and another team can pick them up and sign them for much cheaper.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 03:55 AM
exactly , they get cut because of huge cap space taken and another team can pick them up and sign them for much cheaper.
Lots of moves still to be made, will see !

Diamondring
02-07-2013, 04:18 AM
In my opinion there is no way we cut Rolle, we are already short one starting safety. I could see us cutting Webster though..If Webster gets cut then Roll's head should roll.

EnragedYouth85
02-07-2013, 04:27 AM
If Webster gets cut then Roll's head should roll.

What logic are you using for this assumption? Are you saying Rolle's performance has been as bad as Websters over the last few seasons?

Rat_bastich
02-07-2013, 04:32 AM
You don't make cuts just to simply make cuts or "to put the veterans on notice". You make cuts when you have a plan in mind and know that you either have someone ready to step in or something in mind to replace that individual with as little drop-off. I think in the case of the recent cuts you look at J Will replacing Boley, Wilson replacing Bradshaw and Kuhn replacing Canty. Other than that mostly everyone else that would be on the cut list is probably going to go via free agency(Kenny Phillips, etc.).


I think Jerry has a plan and instead of just blowing up the roster, he is surgically cutting out bits and pieces. I think the surprise cuts, if you call them that, are probably done and it will end up being small names or guys who haven't contributed in quite some time either due to injury or never making any progress.

Mostly what you will see are numbers getting changed by contract restructuring and essential guys getting resigned. I also don't expect any big influx of free agents unless it is a bargain player or two. The Giants just don't do business with the big names. I think maybe Rolle, Arrington and Pierce may have been the biggest.

Diamondring
02-07-2013, 04:52 AM
What logic are you using for this assumption? Are you saying Rolle's performance has been as bad as Websters over the last few seasons?Nope. I'm supporting Webster and think he play was not that bad cause of him all the way. You see the Giants had a tough schedule and when a team plays another good team all of the time, you are going to have problems. Let a lot of teams play our schedule and I bet they could have a bad record. Giants were at least 9 and 7.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 04:54 AM
Nope. I'm supporting Webster and think he play was not that bad cause of him all the way. You see the Giants had a tough schedule and when a team plays another good team all of the time, you are going to have problems. Let a lot of teams play our schedule and I bet they could have a bad record. Giants were at least 9 and 7.
The Redskins played largely the same season and made the playoffs.

Diamondring
02-07-2013, 04:56 AM
The Redskins played largely the same season and made the playoffs.No they didn't. The Giants had the hardest schedule.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 05:00 AM
No they didn't. The Giants had the hardest schedule.

All teams in a division play the same schedule save for two games which are assigned based on the previous year's standings.

Diamondring
02-07-2013, 05:05 AM
All teams in a division play the same schedule save for two games which are assigned based on the previous year's standings.Look, why you use the Skins to prove your point anyway? What were both of their records and did they play each othe twice?

evojutsu
02-07-2013, 05:49 AM
Personally i saw this coming, i didnt AB would go. But mark my words- Webster is next and diehl is on thin ice

Captain Chaos
02-07-2013, 06:36 AM
Yes its a business but its tough to watch sometimes!

SweetZombieJesus
02-07-2013, 07:38 AM
You can't make a TON of cuts when we have so many gaping holes as it is. We only have so many draft picks and FA is proven to not be the answer year after year in the NFL.

This. Unless you want to go into total rebuild (which isn't wise for a team 1 year removed from a Super Bowl) you have to change the flat tire while moving, not do a complete teardown.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 07:45 AM
I doubt Reese would cut Snee given his relationship to Coughlin.

LOL Reese makes personnel decisions, Coughlin coaches the team. The only thing Reese will do diffeently with Snee is give TC the courtesy of a heads up

TCHOF
02-07-2013, 07:45 AM
No well-run team makes significant cuts to "shake things up" on a team that is one year removed from a championship.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 07:46 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

Reese isn't going for spalsh here, he's clearing CAP space, period.

nycsportzfan
02-07-2013, 08:42 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

I'm with you.. People get to attached to guys on these boards and when someone speaks there mind and says we should cut or do a deal that is being talked about, the majority jumps down ur throat with "who we gonna replace em with!!!"..etc Well, u replace em through the Draft or FA'cy..lol

I was all for trading OSI for a 3rd rder, which in hindsight would of been the smart move.. I was all for us trading for Tony Gonzalez 3yrs ago, as he would of been so beneficial keeping one on one coverege to teh outside and in redzone and as a ELI safety valve, adn injury insurance, as just because u have guys like Cruz and Nicks, dosen't mean one injury wont cripple ur depth.... And i'm all for what Reese is doing now.. Ahmad simply is injured all the time, and u can tell his injuries have taken a toal on his overall game.. Canty has been somewhat of a bust for us, and also injury prone, and Boley has small streaks where he plays great, but overall has been kinda a non factor , and hasen't helped the pass defense nearly as much as his reputation said he would.. And all of em are getting a bit older as well..

I'm all for continuing the cuts as well... Trust in the draft, and the wiley FA signings that Reese does to go along with a core bunch of guys like ELI, NICKS, CRUZ(hopefully), Wilson, Prince, JPP, and Beatty(hopefully)..

paulj
02-07-2013, 09:00 AM
Diehl would be a smart cut!
Webster would be also. Perhaps they restructure his contract? If he played so bad due to injury that is one thing, but i think he just lost a step or two and constantly gets beat.

I think the Giants wait unitl they first acquire another top CB via FA, then cut Webster. This way they have some leverage and dont have to be so desparate and over pay for a #1 type cover CB!

nycisgreat
02-07-2013, 09:04 AM
In my opinion there is no way we cut Rolle, we are already short one starting safety. I could see us cutting Webster though..

+1

yo-ho
02-07-2013, 09:56 AM
I think they should cut Phillips. Don't know what his cap number is , but he was a first rounder that never lived up to his potential, and I don't think he is very smart. We need smart players in the secondary that are going to be in position. Stevie Brown and Rolle are the starters, so Phillips should not be getting starter money.

rebelfan1966
02-07-2013, 10:14 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

Secretely, Harooni wants to see Eli cut ;-)

TCHOF
02-07-2013, 10:51 AM
I think they should cut Phillips. Don't know what his cap number is , but he was a first rounder that never lived up to his potential, and I don't think he is very smart. We need smart players in the secondary that are going to be in position. Stevie Brown and Rolle are the starters, so Phillips should not be getting starter money.

Uh, huh?

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 10:55 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

I think Rivers is an easy one, maybe Sash too.

Will Shaun Rodgers and Marvin Austin be a factor?

Rolle is a keeper despite what some may think, his intangible is his leadership, Tuck should hand him his "C"

joemorrisforprez
02-07-2013, 11:18 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

Cutting Tuck would be the "shake things up" move. But everyone is banking that the last 2 years were an anomaly, I guess.

TroyArcher
02-07-2013, 11:24 AM
would love to see a big cut ,to shake things up and free even more room. like a web/rolle or something. even a snee

cut guys in their 30's on the downside of their careers taking up huge cap space. yes it sucks because we like these players but we have to get younger faster and cheaper.

Necessary evil since free agency. I miss the old days when you could afford to be a little more loyal with your players.

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 12:49 PM
I don't agree with that. Have you seen Webster the past few years? Prince is clearly our best CB on the team right now.. +1

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 12:58 PM
All teams in a division play the same schedule save for two games which are assigned based on the previous year's standings. Yet the order of our games was much more difficult in degree of play. Our second half of the season was challenging, while the Skins only, for example, played the Browns, Eagles and Cowgirls, while we faced ATL, Baltimore, and then the measlely Eagles. Still we did pretty good last year. Now it's time to rise...

Chazj1
02-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Diehl, Baas, Osi and Tuck are the ones who need to go

It makes sense salary cap and ability wise

We looked better on offense when Diehl and Baas werent on the field together.

Osi and Tuck sorry but their best is waaaaaaaaay behind them

TrueBlue@NYC
02-07-2013, 01:32 PM
Rolle may be making way more than his worth right now, but because of the restructuring I don't think the team gets much cap relief cutting him this offseason, maybe like 1 mil or something. You get more by keeping him, especially with his versatility.

Obviously Dehl is not taking at his current cap number, Osi is likely gone as well.

G-Men Surg.
02-07-2013, 01:56 PM
Yes its a business but its tough to watch sometimes!
Here, here !

simmstolt
02-07-2013, 02:28 PM
If Diehl isn't cut someone isn't paying attention. Rolle is overpaid but he also was arguably the best overalll defensive player on the team last year. I wouldn't cut Snee. He may be on the downside but he is still a very good lineman and you can't cut half the team. I think KP is gone as I doubt the Gaints will pay him what he wants. I personally would like to see Tuck cut but I doubt they do it.

Delicreep
02-07-2013, 02:30 PM
one has to ask himself, are these 10mil per players. thats all. if yes ok if not move foward.

And this is why we are not GM's

For example, Rolle may not be playing at a level equal to his contract, but:

1) factor in the cap hit for cutting him
2) factor in the ease (or lack there of) of getting a suitable replacement replacement
3) the cost of said replacement.

You may end up paying more for a worse product.

There are a lot of moving parts in play; all of which need to be factored in.

rebelfan1966
02-07-2013, 03:04 PM
Webster got torched a lot this season....

BuffyBlueII
02-07-2013, 03:36 PM
And this is why we are not GM's

For example, Rolle may not be playing at a level equal to his contract, but:

1) factor in the cap hit for cutting him
2) factor in the ease (or lack there of) of getting a suitable replacement replacement
3) the cost of said replacement.

You may end up paying more for a worse product.

There are a lot of moving parts in play; all of which need to be factored in.

Exactly. So many factors do go in to the equation such as how much do we save as oppossed to how much we have to spend to replace players we cut. What is available in FA. What is available in the draft. etc.........etc............

GM of a NFL football team is a very hard job to do well. JR seems to know what he is doing and hasn’t let us down yet. The only “dumb” move I think he did was to just Osi extra money when he didn’t have to but then again, I don’t know everything that was involved in that decision.

In a perfect world, we would be able to cut and sign who we want and pay them as much or as little as we want without any type of cap restrictions. That doesn’t exist and that is why we have smart guys like JR to make the decisions. However, we can have fun *****ing and moaning and playing arm chair GM on a message board because it is fun to do so.....lol......

Harooni
02-07-2013, 09:33 PM
And this is why we are not GM's

For example, Rolle may not be playing at a level equal to his contract, but:

1) factor in the cap hit for cutting him
2) factor in the ease (or lack there of) of getting a suitable replacement replacement
3) the cost of said replacement.

You may end up paying more for a worse product.

There are a lot of moving parts in play; all of which need to be factored in.

that is correct. I fully understand it isnt so easy.the way i see it ,why not cut him because yes you take a hit but then you dont have this same issue next off season also.

i dont see how we would pay more for a worse product though. we arent going to give someone 9mil per to play safety.

bearbryant
02-07-2013, 10:02 PM
I always give the devil first bite on the apple. JR is our GM. He was in the FO when we won 2 SB. Pretty impressive! Now lets see how he gets out of this one. If he gets this team back into contention ( 9-7 is not contention) without it taking 10 years, I'll tip my hat to him. This is going to be good to watch. Ya know, maybe he pulls another rabbit outta his *** like he did in 07: beats one of the all time best offensive squads in football ( I love to beat the patsies). Go get 'em JR!!!

Harooni
02-07-2013, 10:14 PM
I always give the devil first bite on the apple. JR is our GM. He was in the FO when we won 2 SB. Pretty impressive! Now lets see how he gets out of this one. If he gets this team back into contention ( 9-7 is not contention) without it taking 10 years, I'll tip my hat to him. This is going to be good to watch. Ya know, maybe he pulls another rabbit outta his *** like he did in 07: beats one of the all time best offensive squads in football ( I love to beat the patsies). Go get 'em JR!!!
i think he can do it. i was just afraid the FO and owners would block him from making big cuts we need to in order free ourselves up with cap space. Reese can draft we all know that. nice eye for talent. cutting canty and boley showed he knows cuts have to be made.

BigBlue wins
02-07-2013, 11:34 PM
I'm still scratching my head on why they haven't cut Diehl yet.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-08-2013, 02:12 AM
one has to ask himself, are these 10mil per players. thats all. if yes ok if not move foward.

rolle wasnt a $10 million player until his contract was restructured. not a chance rolle goes this season,,,maybe next,,but count on seeing him in 2013.

Rat_bastich
02-08-2013, 05:29 AM
i think he can do it. i was just afraid the FO and owners would block him from making big cuts we need to in order free ourselves up with cap space.

I think, unlike the Cowboys, and other teams that the owner pretty much plays the dual role of GM, the Giants leave it to Jerry Reese to make the money management decisions. I think as a former scout he probably takes information from Coughlin and company before making cuts to see if they can work without a guy and then lets his boss know what he is going to do. I doubt Mara or Tisch interfere at all.