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elitocruz
02-07-2013, 03:14 AM
as in the starting RB, would you still want him returning kicks? tough debate. I personally would lean towards saying no, simply because it's so high risk when they guy is your starting running back. Flip side, is the avg starting field position improves drastically and the potential to break one at any moment.

Part II: who returns those kicks if he doesn't?

Part III: Even if Wilson is #-2 to Brown, would you still risk him on KO returns, given how valuable having two backs has been for us during Tom's time here

myles2424
02-07-2013, 03:16 AM
as in the starting RB, would you still want him returning kicks? tough debate. I personally would lean towards saying no, simply because it's so high risk when they guy is your starting running back. Flip side, is the avg starting field position improves drastically and the potential to break one at any moment.

Part II: who returns those kicks if he doesn't?

Part III: Even if Wilson is #-2 to Brown, would you still risk him on KO returns, given how valuable having two backs has been for us during Tom's time here
I see WR/RB still being a need in 5th-7th, but just make sure the guy can return....Antonio brown/Johnny Knox type

fizzlesticks
02-07-2013, 03:17 AM
Yes, I would "risk" him. How often do you actually see returners get hurt?

Harooni
02-07-2013, 03:22 AM
i think we bring in a vet RB from FA.

elitocruz
02-07-2013, 03:31 AM
JASON SEHORN... i know it's 100 years ago but it's still burned on my brain.

Yes, I would "risk" him. How often do you actually see returners get hurt?

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 03:46 AM
Wes Welker returned punts then played on offense.

i think we bring in a vet RB from FA.
To do what?

Rat_bastich
02-07-2013, 06:07 AM
JASON SEHORN... i know it's 100 years ago but it's still burned on my brain.

Yeah and even though this is a whole new team since that time, I think it is burned enough on the psyche of the Mara's to never have that happen again. I think Wilson goes to full time running back and the torch gets passed to Hosley or someone else.

ImElectric2
02-07-2013, 07:19 AM
JASON SEHORN... i know it's 100 years ago but it's still burned on my brain.From my brain to your keyboard. I think his name alone makes the point.

SweetZombieJesus
02-07-2013, 07:34 AM
Yes, I would "risk" him. How often do you actually see returners get hurt?

Oh hai

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/564/030/1476995_display_image.jpg?1321363041

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 07:41 AM
If he is the starter he won't be returning kicks.

Guess it's Jernigan time. Or Scott takes that role.

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 09:22 AM
If he is the starter he won't be returning kicks.

Guess it's Jernigan time. Or Scott takes that role.

Pretty much this...

JPizzack
02-07-2013, 09:24 AM
If he is the starter he won't be returning kicks.

Guess it's Jernigan time. Or Scott takes that role.

This is also my guess.

Shimmy
02-07-2013, 09:24 AM
I could see Jerrigan or Hixon. I definitely don't think we risk having our #1 and #2 RBs taking the kicks.

egyptian420
02-07-2013, 09:28 AM
I could see Jerrigan or Hixon. I definitely don't think we risk having our #1 and #2 RBs taking the kicks.+1...I'd love to see Hixon returning kicks again

Shimmy
02-07-2013, 09:33 AM
Pretty interesting. Just got this off a quick google search.

David Wilson - 40 yard dash time (http://boards.giants.com/search?hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1022&bih=418&q=david+wilson+40+yard+dash+time): 4.49 seconds
Domenik Hixon - 40 yard dash time: 4.48 seconds

Even I would of put my money on Wilson being faster.

Carter.525
02-07-2013, 09:37 AM
No more returing for Wilson, can't risk it..

VEGAS-NYG-FAN
02-07-2013, 09:41 AM
It kinda depends on our RB depth and the need for a quality return man. If FLIP is our clear cut #1... then look at all the #1 RB in the league, do they return Kicks? Does DMartin return kicks? not sure on that one? Agree with another in that Scott needs to get his 4.2 speed out of Low gear and get us field position he owes us that much earning $$$$ doing basically keeping the bench warm for the starters on cold afternoons..

Onto Bradshaw, Where did all you guys come up with Bradshaw only costing us $750,000 towards the cap this year? I read many reports of 5.25 MIL towards TY cap... 18 pages in another thread on why we should keep him bc of pure economic sense, washed down the drain bc of WONG info. Is there anywhere where we can get the right info? besides Pure speculation as being off 5 Mil is just that.

Plenty of decent RB late in drafts... Our scouts need to do a better Job of landing some of these guys. Look how Shanny gets these Gems, 6-7th round.how does Pro Bowlers fall this deep., the guy continually finds these late round Gems...

I think our team took a turn for the better yesterday in Cap but that experience Lost surely will be missed. I really Loved CC's Leadership among the boys and he had an ok year... it Looks like DD is next today, and possibly Cweb so how do we fill these holes...

VGF

titwio
02-07-2013, 09:46 AM
If he is the starter he won't be returning kicks.

Guess it's Jernigan time. Or Scott takes that role.

This...Most likely I see Scott taking over that role if they want to keep him on the active roster. Hixon will probably stay on PR.

Or they could possibly go with someone they draft this year.

Carter.525
02-07-2013, 09:48 AM
Honey Badger in the 4th..

ryan12
02-07-2013, 09:54 AM
no way do i want him returning kicks if he is starting. andre brown (if we resign him) and either hixon (if we resign him) or scott

Ruttiger711
02-07-2013, 10:00 AM
Yes, I would "risk" him. How often do you actually see returners get hurt?

Say Wha?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9y5fhnffb1qbegzmo1_500.jpg

"The wide receiver first tore his right ACL in June 2010 during the Giants' first practice at their new stadium when he made a cut and collapsed untouched on a punt return."

dayeh33
02-07-2013, 10:48 AM
If you were Coughlin who would you start? I would probably go with Wilson because of his explosiveness and potential to add a whole new element to our offense. Brown has the talent to start but I think he's better in goal line situations. If we can lock up Nicks and Cruz these 4 can give us a high potent offense for the next 5 years as long as Eli is delivering them the ball.

bebil10
02-07-2013, 10:49 AM
wilson will probably be our 1st and second down back, wouldn't be surprised if brown is in on a lot of 3rd downs and goal line.

Carter.525
02-07-2013, 10:53 AM
I'd like an even split, 50/50.. they bring diffrent things to the table..

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 11:01 AM
um sorry but I bet you Ryan Torain sees the rock depending on his grasp of the schemes an dplays and blocking...don't sleep on him.

that said my heart misses AB44 but the solid running, not flash and speed sadly, of Andre seemed more "Giants-like."

I'd like to see Wilson out in space but I am clueless to his catching ability...

nhpgiantsfan
02-07-2013, 11:04 AM
um sorry but I bet you Ryan Torain sees the rock depending on his grasp of the schemes an dplays and blocking...don't sleep on him.

that said my heart misses AB44 but the solid running, not flash and speed sadly, of Andre seemed more "Giants-like."

I'd like to see Wilson out in space but I am clueless to his catching ability...

Ryan Torain??? I'm sorry but the release of AB, totally signals the official start to the David Wilson era, imo.

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 11:06 AM
Wilson. He's got speed. Just give him the ball, and let him find the gap. Touchdown.

TCHOF
02-07-2013, 11:13 AM
um sorry but I bet you Ryan Torain sees the rock depending on his grasp of the schemes an dplays and blocking...don't sleep on him.

that said my heart misses AB44 but the solid running, not flash and speed sadly, of Andre seemed more "Giants-like."

I'd like to see Wilson out in space but I am clueless to his catching ability...

Ah, good point. Forgot about Torrain. He might be the veteran that they keep for insurance against injury.

joemorrisforprez
02-07-2013, 11:33 AM
If you were Coughlin who would you start? I would probably go with Wilson because of his explosiveness and potential to add a whole new element to our offense. Brown has the talent to start but I think he's better in goal line situations. If we can lock up Nicks and Cruz these 4 can give us a high potent offense for the next 5 years as long as Eli is delivering them the ball.

I think alot is going to depend on Wilson's blocking and ball security. Wilson is going to see alot of action regardless, but Brown has the attributes you look for in an every-down back.

Another wildcard is how Brown recovers from his leg injury, and if he can stay healthy.

VBGiantsFan
02-07-2013, 11:40 AM
I think alot is going to depend on Wilson's blocking and ball security. Wilson is going to see alot of action regardless, but Brown has the attributes you look for in an every-down back.

Another wildcard is how Brown recovers from his leg injury, and if he can stay healthy.

If Brown can get back to where he was last season pre-injury, it's his starting job to lose IMO. He is big, physical, and has deceptive speed. He is a mix of AB and BJ IMO. Wilson would make an excellent change of pace back and could receive the ball from the backfield, similar to a guy like Sproles.

joemorrisforprez
02-07-2013, 11:43 AM
If Brown can get back to where he was last season pre-injury, it's his starting job to lose IMO. He is big, physical, and has deceptive speed. He is a mix of AB and BJ IMO. Wilson would make an excellent change of pace back and could receive the ball from the backfield, similar to a guy like Sproles.

I agree. Brown impressed the hell out of me.....Wilson has the "wow" factor, but Brown is good in every important way....he's has a nice jump off the snap, hits the hole fast, has good vision, is patient with his blockers, can make a nice shift into a lane, runs with a forward lean, and seems to be a good blocker, too.

It's really tough to keep that sort of combination off the field. I could see Gilbride using him alot, and it would make sense.

I wouldn't be suprised to see a 60/40 or 50/50 split depending on the gameplan.

TheShouldersOf
02-07-2013, 01:21 PM
Wilson as the primary back, Brown backup as needed, i don't think they need to split carries

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 01:24 PM
Wilson as the primary back, Brown backup as needed, i don't think they need to split carries

Every back in the league splits carries.

I think it will be closer to 50/50. Scott might get a few carries here and there, and possibly return kicks

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 01:26 PM
all in all I actually hope that Brown starts and that the OLine more importantly, is revamped and ready to maul. there is potential to return to a power run game, but everything hinges on the strength of the OLine in my eyes.

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 01:33 PM
all in all I actually hope that Brown starts and that the OLine more importantly, is revamped and ready to maul. there is potential to return to a power run game, but everything hinges on the strength of the OLine in my eyes.

Giants had one of the best run blocking lines last year...

And brown averaged better than 5 ypc. That's excellent

EliDaMANning
02-07-2013, 01:34 PM
Every back in the league splits carries.

I think it will be closer to 50/50. Scott might get a few carries here and there, and possibly return kicksEven Adrian Peterson needed a breather from time to time last year. Wilson should be the featured and primary back. At least 75/25.

TheShouldersOf
02-07-2013, 01:38 PM
Even Adrian Peterson needed a breather from time to time last year. Wilson should be the featured and primary back. At least 75/25.

Indeed, Indeed

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Even Adrian Peterson needed a breather from time to time last year. Wilson should be the featured and primary back. At least 75/25.

75% is way high. 200-250 carries is about what he should get.

Which is closer to 50% depending on total carries they have

75% is well over 300 carries

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Giants had one of the best run blocking lines last year...

And brown averaged better than 5 ypc. That's excellent

wasn't that when they ran plays to the right side? (Snee's side)

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 01:57 PM
wasn't that when they ran plays to the right side? (Snee's side)

That was true when Diehl was at LT. But not with Beatty.

Giants were

#4 off left end
#14 left tackle
#1 mid/guard
#20 right tackle
#12 right end

They were very good everywhere. The right side, specifically the RT, is really the only place they can improve much.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 02:02 PM
I'd like an even split, 50/50.. they bring diffrent things to the table..

I tend to feel this way as well, even 60/40. I really hate when we get into #1, #2 etc. Who starts is far less important than who produces. Our best scenario would be that defenses are concerned equally about both of them or all three of them for that matter.

B-Red22
02-07-2013, 02:03 PM
Wilson

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 02:08 PM
That was true when Diehl was at LT. But not with Beatty.

Giants were

#4 off left end
#14 left tackle
#1 mid/guard
#20 right tackle
#12 right end

They were very good everywhere. The right side, specifically the RT, is really the only place they can improve much.

great information, I value your points on these X's and O's stuff.

Do you think we need to go back to more of a control the clock tempo or do you think Gilbride will continue with the high-tempo, quick strike style of play?

Obviously he will continue to spread the offense but if we could go to a more balance attack where, gasp, the pass opens up the run, I think we will be better than the pundits will say.

thomsoad
02-07-2013, 02:10 PM
The Brown/Wilson scenario will most likely resemble what they did in Buffalo in regards to Spiller/Jackson.
Close to a 50/50 with Spiller (in our case Wilson) looking like the better back.
Spiller is incredible in spurts...but doesnt have the size to be an every down back.
Also Brown impressed us all before he went down.
But im already bracing myself for the boards to explode with the "Why dont we play Wilson more" tag.

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
The Brown/Wilson scenario will most likely resemble what they did in Buffalo in regards to Spiller/Jackson.
Close to a 50/50 with Spiller (in our case Wilson) looking like the better back.
Spiller is incredible in spurts...but doesnt have the size to be an every down back.
Also Brown impressed us all before he went down.
But im already bracing myself for the boards to explode with the "Why dont we play Wilson more" tag.

LOL, I like the potential of converting 3rd and shorts and redzone goal line scoring.

pound that rock baby!

titwio
02-07-2013, 02:23 PM
How about Dave Brown... lol

BlueBlooded1979
02-07-2013, 02:31 PM
It will be Wilson until Eli is leading the league in getting sacked. Wilson lacks the skill, power and toughness required to play pass pro. LDT always said pass pro is about "want to". Wilson usually guessed wrong and when he did guess right he threw a half hearted shoulder.

jomo
02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
Who starts isn't really that important in the scheme of things. I expect them to share duties witha littlechange in the mix of carriers based on the oponent, health status and hot hand.

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
It will be Wilson until Eli is leading the league in getting sacked. Wilson lacks the skill, power and toughness required to play pass pro. LDT always said pass pro is about "want to". Wilson usually guessed wrong and when he did guess right he threw a half hearted shoulder.

Talking out your rear end?

jomo
02-07-2013, 03:02 PM
It will be Wilson until Eli is leading the league in getting sacked. Wilson lacks the skill, power and toughness required to play pass pro. LDT always said pass pro is about "want to". Wilson usually guessed wrong and when he did guess right he threw a half hearted shoulder."Lacks power and toughness" from what game action have you deduced that oh great sage?

rebelfan1966
02-07-2013, 03:02 PM
I like Wilson, but I must admit Brown was showing a lot of heart before he was injured. Perhaps this is setting up to be a big competition in the off season?

DownWitJPP
02-07-2013, 04:59 PM
um sorry but I bet you Ryan Torain sees the rock depending on his grasp of the schemes an dplays and blocking...don't sleep on him.

that said my heart misses AB44 but the solid running, not flash and speed sadly, of Andre seemed more "Giants-like."

I'd like to see Wilson out in space but I am clueless to his catching ability...

Ryan Torrain was signed last year to a 1 yr deal...he's not even currently on the team inless they decide to bring him back

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 05:00 PM
Ryan Torrain was signed last year to a 1 yr deal...he's not even currently on the team inless they decide to bring him back

He is still technically on the active roster

DownWitJPP
02-07-2013, 05:04 PM
He is still technically on the active roster

u know what I mean lol...for the upcoming season

giantyankee1976
02-07-2013, 05:36 PM
Ryan Torrain was signed last year to a 1 yr deal...he's not even currently on the team inless they decide to bring him back

If Bradshaw doesn't come back through some kind of contract negotiation I believe that the Giants will retain him, perhaps another 1-year deal, for depth purposes...unless D'rel becomes a factor.

fizzlesticks
02-07-2013, 05:39 PM
Say Wha?

"The wide receiver first tore his right ACL in June 2010 during the Giants' first practice at their new stadium when he made a cut and collapsed untouched on a punt return."

Just because it happened on a return doesn't mean it happened because of the return... he was untouched, that could have happened just as easily making a cut on a normal play.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 05:41 PM
Yes, I would "risk" him. How often do you actually see returners get hurt?

It ended Jason Sehorn's career

fizzlesticks
02-07-2013, 05:44 PM
It ended Jason Sehorn's career

Sehorn was always hurt and was a scrawny little CB not a running back.

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 05:48 PM
Wilson ain't that beefy (in terms of size) either. I'd rather put Jernigan or Scott back to receive...

fizzlesticks
02-07-2013, 05:49 PM
Wilson ain't that beefy (in terms of size) either. I'd rather put Jernigan or Scott back to receive...

No but he's used to holding a ball, taking a hit and knowing how to protect himself.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 05:51 PM
If Bradshaw doesn't come back through some kind of contract negotiation I believe that the Giants will retain him, perhaps another 1-year deal, for depth purposes...unless D'rel becomes a factor.

Why him? They can get someone cheaper.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 05:52 PM
Sehorn was always hurt and was a scrawny little CB not a running back.

It addresses your position that it's not likely a player can be hurt in the return game.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 05:53 PM
Wilson ain't that beefy (in terms of size) either. I'd rather put Jernigan or Scott back to receive...

They may use Hixon for that IF he's re-signed

fizzlesticks
02-07-2013, 05:56 PM
It addresses your position that it's not likely a player can be hurt in the return game.

Giving 1 example of an already injury prone player really doesn't tho.

GiantRoc
02-07-2013, 06:16 PM
It will depend on who is here, but I think Wilson's return days are done, barring emergency. I can see Jernigan and Hixon the main returners on KO's. I think we may see Hosley on punts. As far as starting goes, I don't think It matters. I think we see a close split on touches. One or the other will get a few more based on what defense we face and the situation of the game. Game to Game dings and aches may play into it as well.

Ruttiger711
02-07-2013, 07:08 PM
Just because it happened on a return doesn't mean it happened because of the return... he was untouched, that could have happened just as easily making a cut on a normal play.You asked who ever got hurt on a return, no?

Drez
02-07-2013, 07:13 PM
Say Wha?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9y5fhnffb1qbegzmo1_500.jpg

"The wide receiver first tore his right ACL in June 2010 during the Giants' first practice at their new stadium when he made a cut and collapsed untouched on a punt return."Seeing as it was a non-contact injury he very well could have been running a route or even doing a conditioning/agility drill. It had nothing to do with the actual act of returning a punt.

Drez
02-07-2013, 07:14 PM
You asked who ever got hurt on a return, no?Did it really need to be stated that the return had to play an actual role in the injury?

Drez
02-07-2013, 07:16 PM
It addresses your position that it's not likely a player can be hurt in the return game.Not really, as the injury didn't have anything to do with the actual return.

Now, if he gave Andre Brown getting a concussion because he unwisely took a ball out of the endzone, now that would be a better example.

egyptian420
02-07-2013, 07:21 PM
i think we bring in a vet RB from FA.Lmao that sig kills me... Looks like a dramatic scene from a horror movie.... And then u see 'false start' for the comedic relief

Ruttiger711
02-07-2013, 07:54 PM
Did it really need to be stated that the return had to play an actual role in the injury?It's happened to the Giants twice with 2 very important players.

Returning the ball isn't the same as a catch and run so no one can say it had no effect.

If you're returning a ball do you think you have the same body mechanics as a catch and run or do you think you may be cutting just a bit harder with the whole team bearing down on you running full speed? How hard do you think these guys are planting sometimes to make their first move so they dont get smashed?

It's in no way making a cut like any ol other play on the field.

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 08:01 PM
but what if wilson truly has the skills to be the greatest returner of all-time? because if you ask me... the potential in him is definitely there

plus we killed the saints because of his 200+ yards returning & 100+ yards rushing. what if we could get something close to that every game?

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 08:07 PM
but what if wilson truly has the skills to be the greatest returner of all-time? because if you ask me... the potential in him is definitely there

plus we killed the saints because of his 200+ yards returning & 100+ yards rushing. what if we could get something close to that every game?

Should they decide that Wilson is the featured back, he won't return kicks. I hope he's not the featured back but not for that reason. I think we can have our back longer if we REALLY have the share the load.

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 08:17 PM
id say tom coughlin is a firm believer that good field position is one of the most important keys to winning a game. if we could start from the 35 on avg instead of the 24... i think our win % would undoubtably increase due to that stat alone

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 08:23 PM
id say tom coughlin is a firm believer that good field position is one of the most important keys to winning a game. if we could start from the 35 on avg instead of the 24... i think our win % would undoubtably increase due to that stat alone

Probably true, but we don't have to have WIlson doing it IF he's the featured back. The stress of taking 60 - 80 % of the snaps is tremendous

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 08:32 PM
i agree that he wont if featured... but i dont agree with that decision if featured. his gifts are special and you should want to feature those skills. holding back that kind of potential with the thought that he may get hurt / burn out too fast would be shameful. i say split carries almost even with brown. save wilson that way. running in the trenches 30x a game is a lot more wear n tear than 3 returns with 17 carries.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 08:35 PM
i agree that he wont if featured... but i dont agree with that decision if featured. his gifts are special and you should want to feature those skills. holding back that kind of potential with the thought that he may get hurt / burn out too fast would be shameful. i say split carries almost even with brown. save wilson that way. running in the trenches 30x a game is a lot more wear n tear than 3 returns with 17 carries.

If they re-sign Hixon he can return if they choose. It was Hixon's record Wilson broke last season

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 10:01 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that the entire return team has a lot to do with field position. JJ returned a kick 60 yards himself in that saints game (when Morestead was deliberately squibbing it away from Wilson).

With that in mind, I hope we re-sign Tryon. He pancaked 3 different guys on the Wilson TD vs the saints...

JJC7301
02-07-2013, 10:23 PM
Yes, I do want him returning kick-offs because he's the best at it on the Giants. You've got to him play up to his ability. If injuries happen, then they happen, but you've got to use the players who are best at each responsibility.

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 10:58 PM
If they re-sign Hixon he can return if they choose. It was Hixon's record Wilson broke last season

hixon is a gamer no doubt. in fact, one of my favorite giants in all aspects on and off the field, but he's past his prime. still near the top of the hill, but on the way down and that will not get the job done anything like wilson could do.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-07-2013, 11:17 PM
this kid has the potential to be very special.

egyptian420
02-08-2013, 12:49 AM
Him and Brown shall be a good 1-2 punch, I can see Brown being used at the goal line much like he was last year.