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RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 04:09 PM
So forget about any other player. Nicks has missed games in all 4 seasons he has been in the pros. How does tis make him not injury prone?

It's kind of like the word "elite." Means different things to different folks.

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 04:10 PM
So forget about any other player. Nicks has missed games in all 4 seasons he has been in the pros. How does tis make him not injury prone?

No, how many times do I have to say that missing a game or two a season is almost commonplace in the NFL?

Buddy333
02-03-2013, 04:11 PM
only played 14 games in '08Was that because of injury? Also, the next two years he did have complete seasons.

Buddy333
02-03-2013, 04:11 PM
No, how many times do I have to say that missing a game or two a season is almost commonplace in the NFL?How many games has Cruz missed?

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 04:13 PM
How many games has Cruz missed?

His whole first season, argue that he shouldn't have been placed on IR all you want but he was still injured.

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 04:14 PM
How many games has Cruz missed?

Calvin Johnson missed a game in '07, 2 in '09, and 2 in '10. I guess he is injury prone too huh.

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 04:15 PM
His whole first season, argue that he shouldn't have been placed on IR all you want but he was still injured.

That's a little like dirty pool right there :popcorn: He never should have been put on IR and we all know it. But it was a season lost

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
We're getting off track a tad now

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
That's a little like dirty pool right there :popcorn: He never should have been put on IR and we all know it. But it was a season lost

Hahaha if this was a serious debate I wouldn't have gone there but imo buddy is just grasping at straws here

Buddy333
02-03-2013, 04:16 PM
Calvin Johnson missed a game in '07, 2 in '09, and 2 in '10. I guess he is injury prone too huh.Yeah.

Buddy333
02-03-2013, 04:17 PM
That's a little like dirty pool right there :popcorn: He never should have been put on IR and we all know it. But it was a season lostThat was a brilliant play by Reese.

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 04:22 PM
That was a brilliant play by Reese.

It clearly was, I just don't see it as an injury loss for Cruz because Tynes sprained his ankle.

It pales in comparison though to Reese's using Nicks as leverage for Cruz's contract talks. That is masterfully brilliant even if we wind up without Cruz long term.

TheEnigma
02-03-2013, 04:22 PM
Yeah.

Stop trolling Buddy lol. Megatron is anything but injury prone. He might actually be half man and half god.

DownWitJPP
02-03-2013, 04:23 PM
They are both very good receivers, we don't need to label Nick's " injury prone" because he got banged up this year. Let a 200 lb grown man jump and land on your ankle with all his weight and see if u can walk...let alone play a professional football game. Then add the knee injury and he's still playing fighting through the pain

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-03-2013, 04:27 PM
They are both very good receivers, we don't need to label Nick's " injury prone" because he got banged up this year. Let a 200 lb grown man jump and land on your ankle with all his weight and see if u can walk...let alone play a professional football game. Then add the knee injury and he's still playing fighting through the pain

thats all fine and dandy but if he plays again like he did this year becuase of injury and we let go of cruz or whatever, that doesnt leave us with much.

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 04:33 PM
thats all fine and dandy but if he plays again like he did this year becuase of injury and we let go of cruz or whatever, that doesnt leave us with much.

You can't just look at the situation that way. Yes they are both WRs but they both play different roles in the offense(primarily). It's almost as if they play different positions because if Nicks is gone I don't think Cruz moves to the outside(I know he can play outside but I'm talking about the majority of his snaps), and if Cruz is gone Nicks sure isn't going to move to the slot.

Buddy333
02-03-2013, 04:38 PM
What if they don't sign either just yet and then Randle has a monster season?

DownWitJPP
02-03-2013, 04:39 PM
They both benefit from playing together and it would be a shame splitting them up. Think about the career numbers they both can have playing together with Eli throwing them the ball. Now we also have Randle flashing and the sky's the limit. The unicorn staying is also a big priority

DownWitJPP
02-03-2013, 04:42 PM
What if they don't sign either just yet and then Randle has a monster season?

won't matter...we need more than 1 good receiver. Nicks isn't going anywhere IMO. He's too valueable and is a true #1 receiver

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 04:45 PM
What if they don't sign either just yet and then Randle has a monster season?

http://www.wallpaperscover.com/wallpapers/troll_face-1280x800.jpg

YATittle1962
02-03-2013, 04:52 PM
carter I agree but this stinks, I dont want to lose either,,,,its like the line from the married with children theme song,,,you can't have one with out the other..I wonder what Cruz must be thinking,,slap in the face or does he maintain his mellow style?

I can't believe you just referred to the hit song by Frank Sinatra Love and Marriage as the Married with Children theme song

:)

Ruttiger711
02-03-2013, 04:53 PM
His whole first season, argue that he shouldn't have been placed on IR all you want but he was still injured.I know that was tongue in cheek but still really funny :)

Sundown
02-03-2013, 05:02 PM
If this does happen Beatty will most likely be gone and an OT will be taken on day one of the draft.

jomo
02-03-2013, 05:16 PM
If this does happen Beatty will most likely be gone and an OT will be taken on day one of the draft.That's what I call a win-win.

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 05:24 PM
They both benefit from playing together and it would be a shame splitting them up. Think about the career numbers they both can have playing together with Eli throwing them the ball. Now we also have Randle flashing and the sky's the limit. The unicorn staying is also a big priority

There are 20+ inhouse free agents and we can't sign them all.

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 05:27 PM
There are 20+ inhouse free agents and we can't sign them all.

Yup, will be fun to watch what happens over the next few weeks

Drez
02-03-2013, 05:28 PM
As I have been saying, Nicks is more valuable to this offense than the slot guy is.

Slot guys are almost plug and play in this system and you can get a 900+ yard guy.

The outside receiver that forces double teams and STILL gets open? Incredibly hard to find.Even past getting open when doubled, Nicks can still make the play when covered​.

jomo
02-03-2013, 05:29 PM
Even past getting open when doubled, Nicks can still make the play when covered​.Yes he can.

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 05:32 PM
Yup, will be fun to watch what happens over the next few weeks

They have until March 12th before other teams can approach our players

jomo
02-03-2013, 05:35 PM
They have until March 12th before other teams can approach our playersKeeping the fan in me suppressed, this time of year is very exciting. Getting the roster right and balancing the financial side of things is the key to making another run. Most teams have cap issues and all teams are trying to maximize the talent on their roster. We have a great front office and I view this period in the year as another opportunity for us to compete and win. Go Blue!!

ShakeandBake
02-03-2013, 05:35 PM
They have until March 12th before other teams can approach our players

exactly, we better start locking people up if we plan on having them next year

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 05:38 PM
exactly, we better start locking people up if we plan on having them next year

They're working on it.

DownWitJPP
02-03-2013, 06:29 PM
There are 20+ inhouse free agents and we can't sign them all.

I know that..I know how it works but it would be nice to keep them together

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 06:41 PM
I know that..I know how it works but it would be nice to keep them together

I agree, I just don't know how they'll get it done

DownWitJPP
02-03-2013, 08:30 PM
I agree, I just don't know how they'll get it done

not sure either my friend..but that's why Jerry Reese and his staff are paid the big bucks:)

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 09:05 PM
not sure either my friend..but that's why Jerry Reese and his staff are paid the big bucks:)

That is a fact

ElIteManning10
02-03-2013, 09:18 PM
What could we realistically offer both of them to be able to keep both?

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 09:27 PM
What could we realistically offer both of them to be able to keep both?

Hard to tell with so many free agents also need to be handled. Maybe $5 - 6M

ElIteManning10
02-03-2013, 09:48 PM
Are we talking about guys we have to bring back this year or future deals for JPP etc? As far as this year goes, there are only 2 people I believe we NEED back.. Beatty is the biggest in my opinion and Bennett (we have nothing for TE). I would love to have KP back, but I believe we can replace him.

Redeyejedi
02-03-2013, 10:02 PM
Hard to tell with so many free agents also needs to be handled. Maybe $5 - 6M I think its going to take 7 or 8 each to keep them

ElIteManning10
02-03-2013, 10:32 PM
I am all for keeping Cruz, but I don't think he should be paid as much as Nicks.. When Nicks is healthy, he's a legit top 10 WR, Cruz isnt (not a knock on him he's very good).

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 10:49 PM
I think its going to take 7 or 8 each to keep them

But they can't both have that much. Reese gets paid big bucks to get and keep talent. He's earning his money this season

If there is that much separation between Nicks and Cruz (I'm still not sure that's the case) then Nicks is rightly going to demand more. Most folks here seem to think a top 5 - 10 receiver can command $8-10M or more. If they do that for Nicks, Cruz will be gone after 2014 because they won't have the money to keep him IF he has another 1,000+ yard season he will be sought after by a few teams.

RoanokeFan
02-03-2013, 10:54 PM
Whatever happens, we should have them both for 2013. If Cruz is flat out tendered, with no continuing negotiations in 2013, he'll be odd man when he hits UFA.

Diamondring
02-03-2013, 11:03 PM
I come to the decision that Cruz should get 10 mil a year for his services Yet deduct some of the money to spend on another receiver to take some pressure off of him, that costs him 3 mil. Now add a O-linemen for Eli so Eli can throw Cruz the ball, that is 2 mil. That leaves him with 5 mil contract a year.

Harooni
02-03-2013, 11:19 PM
Big Eric the Actor fan? HOWARD FAN, funny how eric turns down every role its hilarious and i miss Artie lange and the 49ers get up is football and superbowl related . :)

bearbryant
02-03-2013, 11:38 PM
JR and Co. will be doing their dance with agents for the next several months, so I wouldn't bet on anything that is in print about what anyone said. I don't think baas has gotten any better; we got stuck, just like canty and others. Its why we're sitting here right now. If the draft isn't a home run and if TC refuses to play rookies get ready to strap on your crash helmuts, brother!

giantsforce
02-04-2013, 01:20 AM
But they can't both have that much. Reese gets paid big bucks to get and keep talent. He's earning his money this season

If there is that much separation between Nicks and Cruz (I'm still not sure that's the case) then Nicks is rightly going to demand more. Most folks here seem to think a top 5 - 10 receiver can command $8-10M or more. If they do that for Nicks, Cruz will be gone after 2014 because they won't have the money to keep him IF he has another 1,000+ yard season he will be sought after by a few teams.I am sure that the Cowgirls, the eagirls and the deadskins will find a way to fit him under their cap. It just seems that the Giants, tie up money on deadwood and then they do not have enough for those who produce. I am just waiting for Cruz to burn us a couple of times every year if that happens.

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 01:22 AM
Inteesting and appropriate that Nicks is our first priority at WR.

+ 1.

greenca190
02-04-2013, 01:33 AM
is certainly a frustrating ordeal.

I think from a General Managers position, it is nearly impossible to quantify monetarily how valuable a slot receiver is to a receiver. The position itself, as well as it's role in the NFL today, is relatively new, and continuously evolving.

Certainly, I'm not one to say Cruz is simply just a guy that will sit in zone coverage and pick them apart for 6 - 8 yards at a time, however we all know he does that as well as anyone in the league, and that is how we utilize him to a much larger degree than anything else.

Now, the question is, who else in the league do you compare his skill set to in accordance to the team and develop a suitable contract for him?

It seems as if over the last three years, several more teams have utitlized a hybrid h-back, tight end, slot wide out/running back guy to open up the middle of the field. These sort of athletes are coming across much more prominently now, meaning that the college ranks are pumping them out like never before. However, guys like Hakeem Nicks, whose skill set has done wonders over the entirety of the existence of the NFL, are rare.

I think we all know what I am saying here. Nicks and Cruz play two entirely different roles on this team. Which role is more difficult to fill? That is the guy we should try our absolute hardest to hold on to.

I'm on the side of Hakeem Nicks, here. I hate the annual injuries, but I can't help but think of our former Steve Smith and think that Victor Cruz would be so much easier to replace than Nicks.

EJ Blue
02-04-2013, 01:48 AM
I want Cruz to stay, and HATED the way Steve Smith and Kevin Boss went out, but that basically is going to be the philosophy of Jerry Reese, they're not going to overpay anyone.

and if I were to choose between Cruz and Nicks, and go with Nicks all the way. I love that guy, in the manliest way possible.

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 01:55 AM
Unfortunately for Cruz he knows he is a no. 2 WR or a slot WR but he is seaking a no. 1 WR kind of contract. I pray he is just playing a hand hard and just seaking a fair contract because if he's not then he is in for a hard time trying to brake bank with the Giants. Things could get sour fast and obviously this is not good for team chemistry.

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 02:03 AM
I want Cruz to stay, and HATED the way Steve Smith and Kevin Boss went out, but that basically is going to be the philosophy of Jerry Reese, they're not going to overpay anyone.

and if I were to choose between Cruz and Nicks, and go with Nicks all the way. I love that guy, in the manliest way possible.

That's the correct choice. I love Cruz to death put no way he is worth 8 to 10 mill per year.

JPP=BEASTMODE
02-04-2013, 02:09 AM
As I have been saying, Nicks is more valuable to this offense than the slot guy is.Slot guys are almost plug and play in this system and you can get a 900+ yard guy. The outside receiver that forces double teams and STILL gets open? Incredibly hard to find.

Can't agree more.

GiantRoc
02-04-2013, 02:55 AM
I could easily see Cruz Not coming back if he doesn't want to. If he is out for as much money as he can get, it won't be as a Giant. We don't have the cash, and he knows it. We will see what happens. If he goes, it will be too bad. We will still have a ton of talent to go to.

BuffyBlueII
02-04-2013, 04:55 AM
It is not as clear cut as I may make it appear. You've seen enough of me to realize that hyperbole is one of my relatives. lol That said, I think that Nicks has the better hands and can handle the split reveiver role better than Cuz. Cruz drops too many balls but has an explosive quality about him. Nicks has been injured alot and still productive but is he injury prone? Nicks has been a top receiver for longer than Cruz and Cruz's production or at least those explosive plays dropped way off this year. Is he getting a little gun shy going over the middle. I guess that's a long way to say that when healthy, they are one of the top 3 tandems in the league and it would be a shame if the salary cap breaks them up.

I don’t think I would categorize Hakeem Nicks as injury prone. The issue is that he comes back early. Now, I don’t know if that is by his insistence or the coaches and coordinators needing him back and pushing him to come back early. Either way, Hakeem Nicks does need to have some time to heal and the fact that he comes back so early is indicative of how important he truly is to this offense.

I look at Hakeem Nicks as our Number 1 Receiver and although I really, really want both he and Victor to remain as NY Giants, Hakeem is our 1ST priority IMO. He is very physical and when he is in the game, he gets the attention from the oppossing teams top cover guy. Also, he takes big hits and doesn’t let it rattle his game. We can’t really say that about Victor. Victor Cruz as great as he is does have some seriously costly drops and he did “short arm” it this year when we needed him to step up.

Captain Chaos
02-04-2013, 05:49 AM
Isn't Cruz under contract this year? Think at this point is to let him play out his rookie contract and see what is production is this season. If its good then they'll either pay him or let him go, if it drops again this year then he may be more reasonably priced. Nicks on the other hand is a FA who has had injury issues.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 06:42 AM
Isn't Cruz under contract this year? Think at this point is to let him play out his rookie contract and see what is production is this season. If its good then they'll either pay him or let him go, if it drops again this year then he may be more reasonably priced. Nicks on the other hand is a FA who has had injury issues.

No, he's an RFA. Nicks is still under contract until 2014

jomo
02-04-2013, 06:51 AM
I don’t think I would categorize Hakeem Nicks as injury prone. The issue is that he comes back early. Now, I don’t know if that is by his insistence or the coaches and coordinators needing him back and pushing him to come back early. Either way, Hakeem Nicks does need to have some time to heal and the fact that he comes back so early is indicative of how important he truly is to this offense.

I look at Hakeem Nicks as our Number 1 Receiver and although I really, really want both he and Victor to remain as NY Giants, Hakeem is our 1ST priority IMO. He is very physical and when he is in the game, he gets the attention from the oppossing teams top cover guy. Also, he takes big hits and doesn’t let it rattle his game. We can’t really say that about Victor. Victor Cruz as great as he is does have some seriously costly drops and he did “short arm” it this year when we needed him to step up.+1

CDN_G-FAN
02-04-2013, 07:26 AM
the difficulty right now is if Nicks can't get and stay healthy, which you have to consider, what should we do? Both of these receivers are made much better playing together, and neither seem to have the ability to play as well alone.

So how much do you play an often injuried physical tough receiver, and how much do you pay a fast slot receiver who does everything a team could want on and off the field.

Cruz' agent is doing exactly what i would do in that situation, ask for at least $10 million.

The Mara comments to the press about Cruz wasn't an accident. That was a "i support Reese and don't believe the hype from your agent that i don't" kinda situation.

We'll tender him this season. there's no way they work out a deal.

CDN_G-FAN
02-04-2013, 07:33 AM
I don’t think I would categorize Hakeem Nicks as injury prone. The issue is that he comes back early. Now, I don’t know if that is by his insistence or the coaches and coordinators needing him back and pushing him to come back early. Either way, Hakeem Nicks does need to have some time to heal and the fact that he comes back so early is indicative of how important he truly is to this offense.

I look at Hakeem Nicks as our Number 1 Receiver and although I really, really want both he and Victor to remain as NY Giants, Hakeem is our 1ST priority IMO. He is very physical and when he is in the game, he gets the attention from the oppossing teams top cover guy. Also, he takes big hits and doesn’t let it rattle his game. We can’t really say that about Victor. Victor Cruz as great as he is does have some seriously costly drops and he did “short arm” it this year when we needed him to step up.

its just semantics at this point (injury prone vs injury problems), but injuries are a problem with Nicks.

he can be your #1 priority, and i agree that Nicks is harder to replace than Cruz, but neither is easy to replace.

Fact of the matter is we can't pay both these wide receivers what they're probably worth on the market and stay under the cap. its just math.

with a $20 million QB, you can't tie roughly 30% of your cap on 3 players (Eli, Cruz, Nicks = $20, $10, $10, assuming a $125 cap).

so just like we couldn't keep 3 DEs at starting NFL level salaries (osi, Tuck, JPP), we can't keep both WRs at what they could get on the open market.

Redeyejedi
02-04-2013, 07:49 AM
But they can't both have that much. Reese gets paid big bucks to get and keep talent. He's earning his money this season

If there is that much separation between Nicks and Cruz (I'm still not sure that's the case) then Nicks is rightly going to demand more. Most folks here seem to think a top 5 - 10 receiver can command $8-10M or more. If they do that for Nicks, Cruz will be gone after 2014 because they won't have the money to keep him IF he has another 1,000+ yard season he will be sought after by a few teams. I think the Giants can get Nicks a little cheaper right now because he is coming off an injury. I think rolling the dice on him now can save this team money down the road like Justin Tucks deal.

Redeyejedi
02-04-2013, 07:53 AM
its just semantics at this point (injury prone vs injury problems), but injuries are a problem with Nicks.

he can be your #1 priority, and i agree that Nicks is harder to replace than Cruz, but neither is easy to replace.

Fact of the matter is we can't pay both these wide receivers what they're probably worth on the market and stay under the cap. its just math.

with a $20 million QB, you can't tie roughly 30% of your cap on 3 players (Eli, Cruz, Nicks = $20, $10, $10, assuming a $125 cap).

so just like we couldn't keep 3 DEs at starting NFL level salaries (osi, Tuck, JPP), we can't keep both WRs at what they could get on the open market. Nicks wont get 10 coming off an injury. A stupid team with trouble selling tickets may give Cruz that much because he brings in fans. If im the Giants I dont think id go higher than 4 -5 years 30- 37 million with 15- 20 guaranteed for Cruz

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 07:56 AM
the difficulty right now is if Nicks can't get and stay healthy, which you have to consider, what should we do? Both of these receivers are made much better playing together, and neither seem to have the ability to play as well alone.

So how much do you play an often injuried physical tough receiver, and how much do you pay a fast slot receiver who does everything a team could want on and off the field.

Cruz' agent is doing exactly what i would do in that situation, ask for at least $10 million.

The Mara comments to the press about Cruz wasn't an accident. That was a "i support Reese and don't believe the hype from your agent that i don't" kinda situation.

We'll tender him this season. there's no way they work out a deal.


And that may well end Cruz's time here with the Giants. Everyone is entitled to a fair payday. Cruz hasn't had that for two years due to his contract and that's the way it goes when you're under contract. And while he may not be worth his asking price, whatever that is, he is clearly worth more than the $2.789 M a tender is going to bring him for 2013.

So, if they can't come to terms, he will be underpaid for the third year in a row and, from his vantage point, that would make 2014 his audition for another team that is willing/able to offer him a contract reflective of his skills. Should he have a third consecutive 1,000+ yard season in 2013, he won't be unemployed.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 07:58 AM
Nicks wont get 10 coming off an injury. A stupid team with trouble selling tickets may give Cruz that much because he brings in fans. If im the Giants I dont think id go higher than 4 -5 years 30- 37 million with 15- 20 guaranteed for Cruz

5/37 with 20 guaranteed would be a fair offer. They would throw in workout bonuses and incentives to sweeten the deal.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 07:59 AM
its just semantics at this point (injury prone vs injury problems), but injuries are a problem with Nicks.

he can be your #1 priority, and i agree that Nicks is harder to replace than Cruz, but neither is easy to replace.

Fact of the matter is we can't pay both these wide receivers what they're probably worth on the market and stay under the cap. its just math.

with a $20 million QB, you can't tie roughly 30% of your cap on 3 players (Eli, Cruz, Nicks = $20, $10, $10, assuming a $125 cap).

so just like we couldn't keep 3 DEs at starting NFL level salaries (osi, Tuck, JPP), we can't keep both WRs at what they could get on the open market.


Sad, but true. However it works out, Reese has made a masterful move pitting Nicks against Cruz. KUDOS to Reese.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 08:24 AM
Would the Giants be better with Nicks, JJ, and Randle or Cruz, Randle, and JJ?

nhpgiantsfan
02-04-2013, 09:04 AM
Would the Giants be better with Nicks, JJ, and Randle or Cruz, Randle, and JJ?

Can't really answer that question. We don't really know what Randle will become yet,

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 09:16 AM
Can't really answer that question. We don't really know what Randle will become yet,
I think we have a pretty good idea though that he has a very high floor.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 09:19 AM
I think we have a pretty good idea though that he has a very high floor.Agree. That's what they may be thinking. Keep Nicks and hope he stays healthy, see Randle become the player they where so happy o draft, and get JJ on the field.

gumby74
02-04-2013, 09:20 AM
But they can't both have that much. Reese gets paid big bucks to get and keep talent. He's earning his money this season

If there is that much separation between Nicks and Cruz (I'm still not sure that's the case) then Nicks is rightly going to demand more. Most folks here seem to think a top 5 - 10 receiver can command $8-10M or more. If they do that for Nicks, Cruz will be gone after 2014 because they won't have the money to keep him IF he has another 1,000+ yard season he will be sought after by a few teams.

And this is where you're wrong. Reese's job is to find talent and find value. When a player far exceeds his value, he's no longer worth keeping on the team. Keeping talent gets you nowhere but salary cap hell.

nhpgiantsfan
02-04-2013, 09:26 AM
Agree. That's what they may be thinking. Keep Nicks and hope he stays healthy, see Randle become the player they where so happy o draft, and get JJ on the field.

Let me first say, if I had to choose, I am choosing Nicks. But if you think Randle is going to become a bigtime outside threat kind of like Nicks. Wouldn't Cruz be the guy to keep? I mean we've seen what Cruz and Nicks can do when on the field together. So if Randle can replace Nicks, why not keep Cruz.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 09:30 AM
Let me first say, if I had to choose, I am choosing Nicks. But if you think Randle is going to become a bigtime outside threat kind of like Nicks. Wouldn't Cruz be the guy to keep? I mean we've seen what Cruz and Nicks can do when on the field together. So if Randle can replace Nicks, why not keep Cruz.Dominant outside threats are harder to come by than slot WR's.

gumby74
02-04-2013, 09:31 AM
As I have been saying, Nicks is more valuable to this offense than the slot guy is.

Slot guys are almost plug and play in this system and you can get a 900+ yard guy.

The outside receiver that forces double teams and STILL gets open? Incredibly hard to find.



Even past getting open when doubled, Nicks can still make the play when covered​.


Yes he can.

And that's been my point when I say that Cruz just isn't top dollar material. I'm not saying he's not capable of doing it, because he's shown us that he c an make catches in traffic. But it's not who he is and it's not something you can rely on him for. Back shoulder to Nicks all day any day. Shield off the defender with his body and making the touch catch - Nicks all day. There's a reason why slot guys are paid less.

What bothers me though is that Nicks has issues staying healthy. Not to say he's injury prone, but he's always got something going on hampering his production.

Interesting thought - I think Cruz/Randle duo would be better than Nicks/Randle. If Randle really is a Nicks clone, then we would have 2 WRs bring the same thing to the table. Nicks isn't exact a burner.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 09:34 AM
Agree. That's what they may be thinking. Keep Nicks and hope he stays healthy, see Randle become the player they where so happy o draft, and get JJ on the field.
I think they want to keep both Nicks and Cruz, but understand that Nicks is the more impactful player. So as Mr. Mara said (or was it JR..can't remember) They aren't going to break the bank for Cruz. That doesn't mean they don't value him. It just means that Nicks is a higher priority.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 09:43 AM
I think we have a pretty good idea though that he has a very high floor. The question is really can Nicks play an entire season?

TheEnigma
02-04-2013, 09:47 AM
The question is really can Nicks play an entire season?

I think he can if there is proper rest for his body this offseason and we don't rush anything with him like we did last season. I'm obviously talking from hindsight but we should have trusted our depth instead of putting out a hobbled Nicks who failed to create much separation in his situation.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 09:48 AM
The question is really can Nicks play an entire season?
Can he? Of course.
Will he? That's a different question. But that question is answered the same way for every NFL player.
He's missed 9 games in 4 seasons. Its not as bad as some suggest. He's had these damned ankle and foot problems. But even with the missed games, he's been a tremendously impactful player. He's a top 5 WR in this league.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 10:10 AM
I think they want to keep both Nicks and Cruz, but understand that Nicks is the more impactful player. So as Mr. Mara said (or was it JR..can't remember) They aren't going to break the bank for Cruz. That doesn't mean they don't value him. It just means that Nicks is a higher priority.Yeah well they did use a 1st round pick on Nicks. Also, when healthy, he is a game changer.

nhpgiantsfan
02-04-2013, 10:20 AM
Watching how physical Bolden was last night, really reminded me of Nicks, and how important he is.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 10:40 AM
Yeah well they did use a 1st round pick on Nicks. Also, when healthy, he is a game changer.
I'm not trying to be overly argumentative here, but what does his draft position have to do with anything?
Should we have given Aaron Ross a huge deal because he was a 1st round pick? Should we discard Victor Cruz with his 2600 yards the past 2 years without any contract offer because he was undrafted?

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 10:43 AM
I'm not trying to be overly argumentative here, but what does his draft position have to do with anything?Should we have given Aaron Ross a huge deal because he was a 1st round pick? Should we discard Victor Cruz with his 2600 yards the past 2 years without any contract offer because he was undrafted?Ross was never that good though. He never played to where he was drafted. Of course whatbCruz has done is great and they won't just discard it. Just saying, Nicks was their first round pick and a game changer. Also, he still has a year and coming off injury they may be able to lock him up a little cheaper right now.

gumby74
02-04-2013, 10:47 AM
Watching how physical Bolden was last night, really reminded me of Nicks, and how important he is. There's a reason why most of the top paid receivers are physical.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 11:04 AM
Ross was never that good though. He never played to where he was drafted. Of course whatbCruz has done is great and they won't just discard it. Just saying, Nicks was their first round pick and a game changer. Also, he still has a year and coming off injury they may be able to lock him up a little cheaper right now.
But draft status means nothing once a player is established in the league.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 11:05 AM
There's a reason why most of the top paid receivers are physical.
Bolden was the guys Nicks was most compared to when he was a prospect.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 11:08 AM
But draft status means nothing once a player is established in the league.True, but all things being even he was their 1st pick. Both have been great for them and both wan to get paid. Honestly, I think Nicks would be harder to replace.

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 11:08 AM
Bolden was the guys Nicks was most compared to when he was a prospect.Yeah, and when they drafted Randle they said he was a bigger version of Nicks.

jomo
02-04-2013, 11:09 AM
The question is really can Nicks play an entire season?Can Cruz? It is not as though he has been totally healthy in his 3 years. Nicks's injuries seem a little more severe though and I'd have to put him as a somewhat bigger health question than Cruz. Still if I could take only one of them as is right here and now, it would be Nicks by a small margin.

giantsforce
02-04-2013, 11:10 AM
Bolden was the guys Nicks was most compared to when he was a prospect.Nicks however, is nowhere as durable as Boldin. Broken jaw and and all he was in catching balls. Nicks hasn't played a full season yet.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 12:09 PM
And this is where you're wrong. Reese's job is to find talent and find value. When a player far exceeds his value, he's no longer worth keeping on the team. Keeping talent gets you nowhere but salary cap hell.

That doesn't make sense.

Moke
02-04-2013, 12:11 PM
That doesn't make sense.

What he means is that when a player demands more (exceeds) his value, it's not worth keeping him. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what he means, which is kind of a 'captain obvious' statement.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 12:21 PM
Nicks however, is nowhere as durable as Boldin. Broken jaw and and all he was in catching balls. Nicks hasn't played a full season yet.
Boldin has missed an average of 1.9 games/year in his 10 year career.
Nicks has missed an average of 2.25 games/year in his 4 years.
Not exactly a huge difference.
And quite honestly, Nicks is better.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 12:23 PM
Can Cruz? It is not as though he has been totally healthy in his 3 years. Nicks's injuries seem a little more severe though and I'd have to put him as a somewhat bigger health question than Cruz. Still if I could take only one of them as is right here and now, it would be Nicks by a small margin.

If you're referring to his first year on IR you have to admit that was not because HE was injured to the extent he needed to go on IR. That was because Tynes sprained is ankle and they had to bring in an emergency kicker for a few weeks. Even the NFL was so skeptical they insisted Cruz undergo an independent medical exam. In the two years he has played, he hasn't missed a game.

I know it's popular to suggest Cruz is "scared" to go over the middle, can't catch in traffic, avoids hits, etc. But we've recently seen some film clips that suggest he does all of those things. I don't dispute Nicks may be the more talented of the two on the outside although I honestly don't see a lot of daylight between them. Cruz is effective in the slot or on the outside.

What I think is the most important issue is that Nicks and Cruz complement each other to such an extent that they can be the best receiving tandem in the NFL and that's why I will miss Cruz when he leaves.

giantsfan420
02-04-2013, 12:49 PM
Bolden was the guys Nicks was most compared to when he was a prospect.and id like to point out that boldin plays primarily out of the slot when they go multiple wr sets. i raise that bc i feel nicks can be used in that same style when nicks gets older and loses a step, meaning, nicks should have a longivity to his career, similar to toomer.

and that also could be important with the cruz aspect bc we all know how effective he is out of the slot. well if nicks could be that effective, albeit in a diff style, wouldnt that hurt cruz's negotiations a little?

jomo
02-04-2013, 01:01 PM
If you're referring to his first year on IR you have to admit that was not because HE was injured to the extent he needed to go on IR. That was because Tynes sprained is ankle and they had to bring in an emergency kicker for a few weeks. Even the NFL was so skeptical they insisted Cruz undergo an independent medical exam. In the two years he has played, he hasn't missed a game.

I know it's popular to suggest Cruz is "scared" to go over the middle, can't catch in traffic, avoids hits, etc. But we've recently seen some film clips that suggest he does all of those things. I don't dispute Nicks may be the more talented of the two on the outside although I honestly don't see a lot of daylight between them. Cruz is effective in the slot or on the outside.

What I think is the most important issue is that Nicks and Cruz complement each other to such an extent that they can be the best receiving tandem in the NFL and that's why I will miss Cruz when he leaves.If?

Sundown
02-04-2013, 01:05 PM
Wtf last time I posted this thread was at 13 pages; 60 pages now!!!?

Moke
02-04-2013, 01:09 PM
It's so easy to find a slot receiver too. No need to overpay a player that can play well in the slot.

dezzzR
02-04-2013, 01:11 PM
If Cruz leaves JJ will step right in.

Rudyy
02-04-2013, 01:14 PM
It's so easy to find a slot receiver too. No need to overpay a player that can play well in the slot.If it's so easy, then wouldn't every team have an elite slot receiver?

Harooni
02-04-2013, 01:17 PM
lol , i like how Roa put my bit about a nuns privates on the first page.

jomo
02-04-2013, 01:40 PM
If Cruz leaves JJ will step right in.There will be a drop off in production but he will be an adequate replacement. At that point RR would need to step it up for our passing game to be feared.

giantsforce
02-04-2013, 01:43 PM
Boldin has missed an average of 1.9 games/year in his 10 year career.
Nicks has missed an average of 2.25 games/year in his 4 years.
Not exactly a huge difference.
And quite honestly, Nicks is better.Well, let's see if Nicks will last 10 years in the NFL.

Moke
02-04-2013, 01:45 PM
If it's so easy, then wouldn't every team have an elite slot receiver?

Because there aren't enough "elite" slot receivers, but don't tell me that there are scarce "good" slot receivers. You can't overload on "elite" players. Otherwise, the league would be ******ed and a few teams would be "elite".

Rudyy
02-04-2013, 01:47 PM
Because there aren't enough "elite" slot receivers, but don't tell me that there are scarce "good" slot receivers. You can't overload on "elite" players. Otherwise, the league would be ******ed and a few teams would be "elite".It's not about overloading on elite players. It's about having the best player(s) on your team, your chances of winning are even greater.

And I agree with your first point :D

Moke
02-04-2013, 01:52 PM
It's not about overloading on elite players. It's about having the best player(s) on your team, your chances of winning are even greater.

And I agree with your first point :D

Well of course, but how difficult is it to get the best players around your whole team? There always has to be some sort of spread. You can't pay high prices to 2 of your wide receivers when you have other payments to make, you know? It's a number game. Hey, Jernigan can fill the slot receiver spot and do well.

Rudyy
02-04-2013, 01:56 PM
Well of course, but how difficult is it to get the best players around your whole team? There always has to be some sort of spread. You can't pay high prices to 2 of your wide receivers when you have other payments to make, you know? It's a number game. Hey, Jernigan can fill the slot receiver spot and do well.How do you know he will do well? Because he plays the same position as Cruz?

I know it's most likely going to come down to one or the other. We have 22 other players to deal with. I just don't get this notion that someone else will pick off where Cruz left off, or he will do just as good.

gumby74
02-04-2013, 01:57 PM
And this is where you're wrong. Reese's job is to find talent and find value. When a player far exceeds his value, he's no longer worth keeping on the team. Keeping talent gets you nowhere but salary cap hell.


That doesn't make sense.

I meant when a player's cost exceeds his value. i.e. if he's over paid. So in this if we re-sign Cruz to say 12 million, (i know an exaggeration), he's not worht keeping.

Moke
02-04-2013, 01:58 PM
How do you know he will do well? Because he plays the same position as Cruz?

I know it's most likely going to come down to one or the other. We have 22 other players to deal with. I just don't get this notion that someone else will pick off where Cruz left off, or he will do just as good.

If he has the mindset, he very well can. He has the speed and athleticism to easily become that slot receiver.

Diamondring
02-04-2013, 01:59 PM
How do you know he will do well? Because he plays the same position as Cruz?

I know it's most likely going to come down to one or the other. We have 22 other players to deal with. I just don't get this notion that someone else will pick off where Cruz left off, or he will do just as good.Might do better than Cruz. He didn't do good in none of the 3 games the Giants need him most where they lost. Cruz is not that good and the other players helped him out. He has to pay those players so his ten to 15 mil has to be spend on his teammates.

Rudyy
02-04-2013, 01:59 PM
If he has the mindset, he very well can. He has the speed and athleticism to easily become that slot receiver.Yep

Moke
02-04-2013, 02:04 PM
Yep

It's not like it's a big "if". With a good coaching staff that we all preach, it shouldn't be hard for a size like Jernigan to become good in the slot.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 02:05 PM
If?

If they tender him this season and don't agree to continue to negotiate during the season, which John Mara has said they will do, he is going to be underpaid for the third year in a row, unless anyone thinks he's only worth $2.789M. I understand the Giants have every right to tender him, that's how the rules read.

Putting myself in his handlers' place I'd tell him to accept the tender, smile, work his *** off and be committed to leaving when he hits UFA. Assuming he's as good a player as I think he is, he may well stack another 1,000+ yard season on top of his first two (obviously he could fail as well) which will make him very employable after 2013 and the Giants, again, won't be able to afford his services. So he's very likely to get multiple offers from teams interested in having a receiver with his talent on their roster.

If tendered, he's going to lose out on somewhere between $3 and 5M, conservatively. I would expect Jerry Jones to be one of those interested when Cruz is an UFA and they aren't saddled with the slap on the wrist CAP space they and the Redskins are suffering under this season.

I don't know if Reese can or would even try to make life a little more bearable, as he did with Osi, by giving something above the tender rate. Everyone wants to be appreciated and properly compensated. But if I were advising Cruz, I'd be looking ahead to 2014 as the cards are stacked against us this season. I would not even think of a hold out or negative public statements that went beyond being disappointed. Then it's time to get to work, attend all OTAs, mini-camp, training camp, and play the entire 2013 season auditioning for his next GM, whoever that may be.

All of that being said, Reese may have a plan to sign them both this year by back loading bigger numbers for at last one of them. I don't think John Mara would have gone public saying they want Cruz if that's not true. Now we just have to wait and see.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 02:17 PM
If they tender him this season and don't agree to continue to negotiate during the season, which John Mara has said they will do, he is going to be underpaid for the third year in a row, unless anyone thinks he's only worth $2.789M. I understand the Giants have every right to tender him, that's how the rules read.

Putting myself in his handlers' place I'd tell him to accept the tender, smile, work his *** off and be committed to leaving when he hits UFA. Assuming he's as good a player as I think he is, he may well stack another 1,000+ yard season on top of his first two (obviously he could fail as well) which will make him very employable after 2013 and the Giants, again, won't be able to afford his services. So he's very likely to get multiple offers from teams interested in having a receiver with his talent on their roster.

If tendered, he's going to lose out on somewhere between $3 and 5M, conservatively. I would expect Jerry Jones to be one of those interested when Cruz is an UFA and they aren't saddled with the slap on the wrist CAP space they and the Redskins are suffering under this season.

I don't know if Reese can or would even try to make life a little more bearable, as he did with Osi, by giving something above the tender rate. Everyone wants to be appreciated and properly compensated. But if I were advising Cruz, I'd be looking ahead to 2014 as the cards are stacked against us this season. I would not even think of a hold out or negative public statements that went beyond being disappointed. Then it's time to get to work, attend all OTAs, mini-camp, training camp, and play the entire 2013 season auditioning for his next GM, whoever that may be.

All of that being said, Reese may have a plan to sign them both this year by back loading bigger numbers for at last one of them. I don't think John Mara would have gone public saying they want Cruz if that's not true. Now we just have to wait and see.

Even Morehead is worth more than $2+MM.

The Giants are in a great position here. They will tender Cruz. If someone wants to give him a huge contract, we will get a first round pick. (that probably won't happen). So we will have great leverage at that point because he's probably not going to be happy making several million less than he would if he signed a long term deal.

Cloud57
02-04-2013, 02:52 PM
I don't trust Nicks, I think the Giants should see how he plays this season first.

gumby74
02-04-2013, 02:58 PM
I think it's a foregone conclusion that the Giants don't expect to keep both.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 03:24 PM
I think it's a foregone conclusion that the Giants don't expect to keep both.
I don't think that's true at all. I think they are thinking its better than 50/50.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
I meant when a player's cost exceeds his value. i.e. if he's over paid. So in this if we re-sign Cruz to say 12 million, (i know an exaggeration), he's not worht keeping.

Cruz hasn't been paid his worth since he came off IR. Reese won't overpay him so there's nothing to worry about that.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 03:30 PM
I think it's a foregone conclusion that the Giants don't expect to keep both.

If you added "at prevailing rates based on their talents", I'd agree

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 03:32 PM
I think it's a foregone conclusion that the Giants don't expect to keep both.
I think the Giants original plan has been all along to keep both of them but not paying Cruz like a no.1 WR, thats all.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 03:33 PM
Even Morehead is worth more than $2+MM.

The Giants are in a great position here. They will tender Cruz. If someone wants to give him a huge contract, we will get a first round pick. (that probably won't happen). So we will have great leverage at that point because he's probably not going to be happy making several million less than he would if he signed a long term deal.

That's true, he will be underpaid yet again, under the rules. So in 2014 when he's an UFA he will be looking to go where he's financially appreciated and that will not likely be here. All he can do is play his heart out in 2013 and reap the rewards elsewhere.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 03:36 PM
Might do better than Cruz. He didn't do good in none of the 3 games the Giants need him most where they lost. Cruz is not that good and the other players helped him out. He has to pay those players so his ten to 15 mil has to be spend on his teammates.

I don't get how any receiver can put 1,000+ yard seasons back to back and be "not that good."

Buddy333
02-04-2013, 04:07 PM
I think it's a foregone conclusion that the Giants don't expect to keep both.Agree. Hope they do, but money talks.

AllHailEli
02-04-2013, 04:35 PM
The problem is Nicks' health. If he's healthy, the Giants have to choose him first. Eli needs a big receiver like Nicks, and a big receiver is hard to find. Giants need Cruz also, but if both are healthy (and you have to assume that Nicks will be next season) you need to go with Nicks as the priority.

TheEnigma
02-04-2013, 04:38 PM
Our future slot receiver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Young) ladies and gentlemen. He's such a class act and there will be no problems with him in the Big Apple.

Ruttiger711
02-04-2013, 04:46 PM
The problem is Nicks' health. If he's healthy, the Giants have to choose him first. Eli needs a big receiver like Nicks, and a big receiver is hard to find. Giants need Cruz also, but if both are healthy (and you have to assume that Nicks will be next season) you need to go with Nicks as the priority.While I agree with you - Nicks is only listed at 6'-1". One inch taller than Cruz. He does play like a big receiver though.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 04:47 PM
While I agree with you - Nicks is only listed at 6'-1". One inch taller than Cruz. He does play like a big receiver though.
Yeah...I was wondering what he meant by "big receiver".
I mean Nicks isn't small but he's hardly considered a big target.

DownWitJPP
02-04-2013, 04:48 PM
Our future slot receiver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Young) ladies and gentlemen. He's such a class act and there will be no problems with him in the Big Apple. there's a better chance of us aquiring Calvin Johnson in a trade for only a 5th round pick. Titus Young is a bum

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 04:55 PM
there's a better chance of us aquiring Calvin Johnson in a trade for only a 5th round pick. Titus Young is a bum
So you're sayin' there's a chance...

DownWitJPP
02-04-2013, 04:57 PM
So you're sayin' there's a chance...

Nicely played..love the dumb & dumber reference. One of my fav movies

AllHailEli
02-04-2013, 05:01 PM
Yeah...I was wondering what he meant by "big receiver".
I mean Nicks isn't small but he's hardly considered a big target.
You have big receivers that play small (see the 2013 "GOAT" Randy Moss) and medium receivers who play big--see Nicks.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 05:03 PM
The problem is Nicks' health. If he's healthy, the Giants have to choose him first. Eli needs a big receiver like Nicks, and a big receiver is hard to find. Giants need Cruz also, but if both are healthy (and you have to assume that Nicks will be next season) you need to go with Nicks as the priority.

I understand your point, but Nicks hasn't played a full season yet. That's not to say it can't happen, but it's not yet.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 05:07 PM
You have big receivers that play small (see the 2013 "GOAT" Randy Moss) and medium receivers who play big--see Nicks.
Do you have small receivers who play medium? How about medium receivers who play really, really small? ( I mean Mack Herron small)

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 05:09 PM
Do you have small receivers who play medium? How about medium receivers who play really, really small? ( I mean Mack Herron small)

I'm still checking into you being worth more than $2+M I'll get back to you.

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 05:20 PM
I'm still checking into you being worth more than $2+M I'll get back to you.
Oh...I'm worth it baby!

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 05:51 PM
Oh...I'm worth it baby!

Those closest to you just laugh when I ask :p

giant-4-life
02-04-2013, 05:54 PM
Massive contract? Where do you read that?

C'mon man, who puts the giants out to dry like that? That is a classless prima donna move. sure he plays well. but no man is above the team.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 06:12 PM
C'mon man, who puts the giants out to dry like that? That is a classless prima donna move. sure he plays well. but no man is above the team.

What are you talking about?

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 06:26 PM
Yeah...I was wondering what he meant by "big receiver".
I mean Nicks isn't small but he's hardly considered a big target.
Not big but very strong and with a freakish wing span not to mention the size of his hands. The whole package makes him a dangerous treat and a true No. 1 NFL Wr.

About his wing span,

Nick's "freakish" wingspan compared to top NFL receivers
BSIMatt : 4/29/2009 4:29 pm
The article basically goes on and compares Michael Crabtrees wingspan to some big name NFL receivers like Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Brandon Marchall, Vincent Jackson, etc, to point out that despite his height, he actually has a longer wingspan than every WR mentioned.

Went back and looked at Nicks wingspan, and he in fact, at 33.5 would put him ahead of those very same receivers and only behind Crabtree.

Nicks is a gamer and will be taken care of sooner rather than later by the Giants.

jomo
02-04-2013, 06:35 PM
What are you talking about?Here we have RF demonstrating the patience of Job.

RoanokeFan
02-04-2013, 07:21 PM
Here we have RF demonstrating the patience of Job.

Some of the responses are just Alzheimer like in terms of my ability to comprehend

Morehead State
02-04-2013, 07:24 PM
Not big but very strong and with a freakish wing span not to mention the size of his hands. The whole package makes him a dangerous treat and a true No. 1 NFL Wr.

About his wing span,

Nick's "freakish" wingspan compared to top NFL receivers
BSIMatt : 4/29/2009 4:29 pm
The article basically goes on and compares Michael Crabtrees wingspan to some big name NFL receivers like Calvin Johnson, Braylon Edwards, Brandon Marchall, Vincent Jackson, etc, to point out that despite his height, he actually has a longer wingspan than every WR mentioned.

Went back and looked at Nicks wingspan, and he in fact, at 33.5 would put him ahead of those very same receivers and only behind Crabtree.

Nicks is a gamer and will be taken care of sooner rather than later by the Giants.

You are wasting your time selling Hakeem Nicks to me. I already think he's great. The poster who mentioned him as a "big receiver" suggested more than that he "plays big". He simply suggested that he "is" big.
As I said, he's not small at all, but he's not especially big either. Its really no big deal.

G-Men Surg.
02-04-2013, 09:42 PM
You are wasting your time selling Hakeem Nicks to me. I already think he's great. The poster who mentioned him as a "big receiver" suggested more than that he "plays big". He simply suggested that he "is" big.
As I said, he's not small at all, but he's not especially big either. Its really no big deal.

It's ironic how Cruz plays " big " too as the Y or Z wr. Jokes aside there's no question how important is Nicks as the X wr. on the team. The Giants are fortunate they replaced Plaxico in a heart beat with Hakeem and surely enough they intend to keep him for a long time.

TuckandRolle
02-05-2013, 09:24 AM
Giants have leverage on both receivers. Cruz is an RFA and Nicks is coming off a bad season filled with injuries. Giants understand this and will hope to lock them both up this off season. Nicks is bigger and can stretch the field more. Cruz relies on Nicks dominance for his production, perfect example of this is his disappearance in the final few games when we needed him most. Teams saw Nicks was hurt and wouldn't be a factor, so they doubled down on Cruz and he didn't see production.

I'll take Nicks over Cruz any day of the week, but obviously I hope they can keep both. Giants have the leverage and I think they will lock them both up. Worst comes to worst we get a first round pick for Cruz haha.

nhpgiantsfan
02-05-2013, 09:48 AM
Giants have leverage on both receivers. Cruz is an RFA and Nicks is coming off a bad season filled with injuries. Giants understand this and will hope to lock them both up this off season. Nicks is bigger and can stretch the field more. Cruz relies on Nicks dominance for his production, perfect example of this is his disappearance in the final few games when we needed him most. Teams saw Nicks was hurt and wouldn't be a factor, so they doubled down on Cruz and he didn't see production.

I'll take Nicks over Cruz any day of the week, but obviously I hope they can keep both. Giants have the leverage and I think they will lock them both up. Worst comes to worst we get a first round pick for Cruz haha.

Also it was no coincidence that Cruz' best game was when he had 175 yards in Tampa, on the same day Nicks beasted for 199 and basically took over the game.

Don't get me wrong Cruz still had a decent year without a healthy Nicks, but he is much more of a threat when Nicks is 100%. But, I guess that can be said about any WR tandem. When both are 100%, they are much more dangerous.

KillaRich
02-05-2013, 07:01 PM
I know I know , it's a business he wants his money and he deserves money

But asking for Fitzgerald money? I believe he is one notch under that... Give me another 1,000 yard season or simply he could just of had less drops this season and I would not have cared.... I am not bashing Cruz at all... He is one of my favorites along with Eli, Nicks, Bradshaw and KP..... But asking for an arm and a leg can hurt his team (Boley, Nicks and KP) I know he has to think of himself... But he shouldnt forget why he is in the situation hes in.. is because the Giants are the only team that gave him a chance and he has a ring ...All that being said I hope he stays , even if it does cost an arm and a leg ...hes worth it.... But Nicks is just as important...

GO GIANTS AND CRUZ!!!

penguinfarmer
02-05-2013, 07:04 PM
? Can someone sum up the 65 pages? Is this a Nicks vs. Cruz thing?

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 07:11 PM
I know I know , it's a business he wants his money and he deserves money

But asking for Fitzgerald money? I believe he is one notch under that... Give me another 1,000 yard season or simply he could just of had less drops this season and I would not have cared.... I am not bashing Cruz at all... He is one of my favorites along with Eli, Nicks, Bradshaw and KP..... But asking for an arm and a leg can hurt his team (Boley, Nicks and KP) I know he has to think of himself... But he shouldnt forget why he is in the situation hes in.. is because the Giants are the only team that gave him a chance and he has a ring ...All that being said I hope he stays , even if it does cost an arm and a leg ...hes worth it.... But Nicks is just as important...

GO GIANTS AND CRUZ!


First, we don't know what he's asking for other than John Mara said "too much." So let's go with he's asking for too much, hardly a surprise. Second, this "we were the only team" is not accurate. We found him in the weeds and gave him a shot. After his first pre-season, teams were licking their chops hoping the Giants would release him, which they almost did except for someone in the FO nixing any release.

Then we had "hamstringgate" where Cruz was coming back from a minor hamstring injury and Tynes hurt his ankle. Rather than subject Cruz to waivers (which he would have not cleared), they lied and placed him on IR. That didn't pass the smell test so the N FL made the team hire an independent medical professional to certify Cruz needed to be on season ending IR. They got away with it.

The Giants obviously gave him a chance, but they weren't wearing his pads and cleats when he took the NFL by storm. The team has benefited far more by having Cruz than Cruz has (contractually speaking) from being on the team.

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 07:11 PM
? Can someone sum up the 65 pages? Is this a Nicks vs. Cruz thing?

They've become intertwined

Drez
02-05-2013, 07:15 PM
Where has it been stated that he's asking for Fitz money?

Rudyy
02-05-2013, 07:17 PM
He didn't even say what he wants, where did he say he wants Fitzgerald money?

BigBlueAllDay
02-05-2013, 07:19 PM
I think Cruz is still waiting for the Giants to make him an offer. He is a team player just for playing just as hard and not complaining about his low salary for 2012.

CDN_G-FAN
02-05-2013, 07:21 PM
the price is the price.

was the FO being team players when they cut boley? players have to be paid when they have a chance. look at TT. he'll never get a big contract. he signed a one year deal to prove he could come back from his 2nd knee injury only to get a 3rd.

to think that cruz couldn't get $10 mill/yr from another team is not understanding his market value in a league where some teams can't find a receiver to save their lives.

i don't blame cruz one bit for trying to get paid. he's either worth it for us or he's not.

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 07:24 PM
the price is the price.

was the FO being team players when they cut boley? players have to be paid when they have a chance. look at TT. he'll never get a big contract. he signed a one year deal to prove he could come back from his 2nd knee injury only to get a 3rd.

to think that cruz couldn't get $10 mill/yr from another team is not understanding his market value in a league where some teams can't find a receiver to save their lives.

i don't blame cruz one bit for trying to get paid. he's either worth it for us or he's not.


+1

G-Men Surg.
02-05-2013, 07:41 PM
You think that's easy... I want to draft Lane Johnson... Also if it weren't a cap hell situation I would cut Baas and draft a C in round 2.

Call me old school but for me it all starts with the lines. Give Eli time to throw and he will make anyone look like an all-pro. Look at what he did in the pro bowl with just that extra second to throw. Look at what he can do with BARDEN THE TERRIBLE in carolina.

You can do the next best thing in round 2. Draft C/G Travis Frederick and plug him in at LG, next year if Baas goes or gets cut move him to the Center spot. He is a mean SOB, a true mauler.

jomo
02-05-2013, 08:13 PM
the price is the price.

was the FO being team players when they cut boley? players have to be paid when they have a chance. look at TT. he'll never get a big contract. he signed a one year deal to prove he could come back from his 2nd knee injury only to get a 3rd.

to think that cruz couldn't get $10 mill/yr from another team is not understanding his market value in a league where some teams can't find a receiver to save their lives.

i don't blame cruz one bit for trying to get paid. he's either worth it for us or he's not.Cruz should make as much as possible. He needs to factor in how much playing in the NYC market helps his after football life. That's up to him to figure out.

We on the other hand have to run a football team and spread the allowable salary cap money in a way that gives us the best chance to get back to the Super Bowl.

Sometimes these priorities work nicely together and sometimes they don't. When that happens, the player winds up elsewhere. It's just business and I care more about winning championships than I do for signing Cruz. I want him here but in the end it may not be possible.

KevRDK
02-05-2013, 08:18 PM
Cruz isn't worth $10Million a year. I think in terms of marketability Cruz should look to stay a Giant. I just don't see a deal being done with our cap space at the moment.

jomo
02-05-2013, 08:22 PM
Cruz isn't worth $10Million a year. I think in terms of marketability Cruz should look to stay a Giant. I just don't see a deal being done with our cap space at the moment.We don't decide what Cruz is worth. The market decides what he is worth. All we decide is what we are willing to pay for his skills.

Welcome to the boards!

Hooligans
02-05-2013, 08:25 PM
The trick is the Giants want Nicks AND Cruz.....Nicks had a terrible year of injuries, etc......they will extend him first...then they will move to Cruz......this is the Giants...they WILL NOT pay him $10M per year....but he will sign...get a big bonus, which he truly deserves....and the Giants will hone in on offensive line and linebackers.......there will be a lot of longtime Giants let go on defense......they have to

TCHOF
02-05-2013, 08:30 PM
+1
+2

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 09:06 PM
Cruz should make as much as possible. He needs to factor in how much playing in the NYC market helps his after football life. That's up to him to figure out.

We on the other hand have to run a football team and spread the allowable salary cap money in a way that gives us the best chance to get back to the Super Bowl.

Sometimes these priorities work nicely together and sometimes they don't. When that happens, the player winds up elsewhere. It's just business and I care more about winning championships than I do for signing Cruz. I want him here but in the end it may not be possible.

It will depend on how much CAP they can salvage now and project over the next 4 - 5 years. Cutting Boley was a signal they are willing to release veterans. If they do that enough, they may be able to take care of Nicks and Cruz, with Cruz having a more back loaded contract than might otherwise be the case. While not ideal from a player's point of view, it can be made to work with a decent guarantee.

RoanokeFan
02-05-2013, 09:10 PM
He didn't even say what he wants, where did he say he wants Fitzgerald money?

We're still grasping at straws. What we do know is John Mara said it was "too much, right now." We all assumed "right now" was a reference to the Cruz camp coming down in their expectations, whcih is still probably the case. But it could also mean the team doesn't yet have the CAP space, which they are now working on. Cutting Boley would almost bring them to even I think.

Rudyy
02-05-2013, 09:41 PM
We're still grasping at straws. What we do know is John Mara said it was "too much, right now." We all assumed "right now" was a reference to the Cruz camp coming down in their expectations, whcih is still probably the case. But it could also mean the team doesn't yet have the CAP space, which they are now working on. Cutting Boley would almost bring them to even I think.Killa's comment said that CRUZ asked for Fitzgerald money, which is not true at all.

NYGfanNC
02-05-2013, 10:17 PM
I'm really hoping we don't, but if we do, should we go after Steve Smith? The Rams signed Titus Young and could possibly cut SS, should we go after him? Even if we keep Cruz, we should still go after him. I know he plays the same spot as Cruz but he knows the system and could be a nice addition. Thoughts?

Drez
02-05-2013, 10:21 PM
NO.

Carter.525
02-05-2013, 10:23 PM
eh boy..

GiantRoc
02-05-2013, 10:35 PM
This topic came up a couple weeks ago. I'm pretty sure the answer will still be about 99% NO.

Cloud57
02-05-2013, 10:39 PM
not another Cruz thread..

Sean Montemayor
02-05-2013, 10:49 PM
I love salsa time. NO!

RoanokeFan
02-06-2013, 08:12 AM
I'm really hoping we don't, but if we do, should we go after Steve Smith? The Rams signed Titus Young and could possibly cut SS, should we go after him? Even if we keep Cruz, we should still go after him. I know he plays the same spot as Cruz but he knows the system and could be a nice addition. Thoughts?

Steve Smith? You have to be kidding. He started a total of 3 games in the last two years and only played in 18.

GiantsSB23
02-07-2013, 09:37 AM
So the word on the street is his agent is asking for a lot of money. The Giants are already crunching numbers as it is so let's say we do lose him. I honestly don't think Hakeem can carry our receiver core on his own. I do believe we have great depth at the position but there is no other V Cruz on our team so I'm a a bit worried. I know were doing some cuts here and there but Victor is pretty much the bread and butter to our offense if we dont get him signed where will that leave us?

Mercury
02-07-2013, 10:10 AM
I think everyone would be sad to see V Cruz go elsewhere. But if it happens, it won't be the end of the world (or the end of the Giants for that matter.)

shane4177
02-07-2013, 10:19 AM
Yes and no. How much are we talking that he wants? I say pay the man BUT does just 2 seasons of 80+ catches, 1000+ yds, and 9-10 TDs = a salary like Fitz or Megatron? I mean don't get me wrong Cruz is awesome, and I love that we have him but does he really merit the kind of salary those guys get?

ryan12
02-07-2013, 10:34 AM
no way we let cruz go anywere

GiantsSB23
02-07-2013, 10:35 AM
I think he has the potential to get to that level, he's not there yet but it would be good to have that kind of talent in our receiving core. I dont think he deserves a huge salary like some of the more elite receivers get. I think its more of his agent pushing the higher bid than him. He's from Jersey, the Giants gave him his first shot and I think above anything else he has loyalty and wants to remain a Giant. But money talks, im sure there's some desperate team in dire need of a receiver that would pay him a ridiculous salary....

Sean Montemayor
02-07-2013, 10:37 AM
NO! I love salsa time!

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 10:37 AM
Yes I'm worried about losing Cruz, but i'm MORE worried about losing Beatty.

FBomb
02-07-2013, 10:38 AM
I would hate it....but I'm not worried about it too much. The Giants are freeing up cap space now.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 10:39 AM
Yes and no. It seems like he should retire a Giant. Local kid that came out of nowhere and has his signature Salsa dance. Like it or not it would look strange for him to do the dance in another uniform. However, no player is bigger than the team and if the money he wants hurts their ability to keep other players then they need to move on. It happens all the time in the world of FA. Everyone though they where in trouble when they lost Smith.

TheEnigma
02-07-2013, 10:41 AM
Yes I'm worried about losing Cruz, but i'm MORE worried about losing Beatty.

+1 Should come cheaper too due to this year's FA LT class.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 10:43 AM
Something to consider. Are they better with Nicks, JJ, and Randle? Or are they better with Cruz, JJ, and Randle?

VBGiantsFan
02-07-2013, 10:43 AM
Victor should be a Giant for life, no one disagrees. However, he is not Megatron, and if he's asking for anything close to that, he needs to walk. He and Nicks are a fantastic duo and it would be sad to lose it, but everything has a cap to it.

Lets not forget, Cruz is a benefactor of the NY market as well. He will probably end up making more money form commercials and endorsements than he will from the Giants if he stays in NY. He can follow the money to a place that will overpay him, but if it's a small market team, he loses A LOT of money from auxiliary sources of income related to football.

Carter.525
02-07-2013, 10:48 AM
yes I'm worried.. It is reminding me of Jeremy Lin..

Redeyejedi
02-07-2013, 10:50 AM
Beatty,Cruz,Nicks,and JPP arent going anywhere. I should say as long as they are reasonable. if Cruz wants 10 million he will be gone. If he wants a fair deal 7 or 8 million he will be here

joemorrisforprez
02-07-2013, 10:55 AM
I would hate it....but I'm not worried about it too much. The Giants are freeing up cap space now.

Yeah, that's my take as well.

TheEnigma
02-07-2013, 10:55 AM
Beatty,Cruz,Nicks,and JPP arent going anywhere. I should say as long as they are reasonable. if Cruz wants 10 million he will be gone. If he wants a fair deal 7 or 8 million he will be here

You think a lot of this cap space being created by Reese is making room for a long term Beatty contract? Nicks is probably in that mix too if we get a new contract written up for him.

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 10:57 AM
Yes and no. It seems like he should retire a Giant. Local kid that came out of nowhere and has his signature Salsa dance. Like it or not it would look strange for him to do the dance in another uniform. However, no player is bigger than the team and if the money he wants hurts their ability to keep other players then they need to move on. It happens all the time in the world of FA. Everyone though they where in trouble when they lost Smith.

This is why even though I would LOOOOOOVE for Cruz to play his entire career in blue, it's not the end of the world if he walks...

dezzzR
02-07-2013, 11:02 AM
I would hate it....but I'm not worried about it too much. The Giants are freeing up cap space now.Yea Im really not that worried. We have pretty decent depth at WR. I think JJ and Randle can handle the slot just fine if Cruz doesnt return.

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 11:04 AM
Yea Im really not that worried. We have pretty decent depth at WR. I think JJ and Randle can handle the slot just fine if Cruz doesnt return.

JJ was our designated future at slot WR until Cruz came along... something to keep in mind. Also, I can tell the team would like to use him more as a WR, since towards the end of the season I was seeing 4 WR sets, with Jernigan lining up opposite Cruz.

joemorrisforprez
02-07-2013, 11:07 AM
Beatty,Cruz,Nicks,and JPP arent going anywhere. I should say as long as they are reasonable. if Cruz wants 10 million he will be gone. If he wants a fair deal 7 or 8 million he will be here

+1

Re: Cruz. He's a restricted free agent, so teams aren't going to overpay for him, and give the Giants a high draft pick as well.

Cruz has a ton of talent, but we've also seen what happens to guys who no longer have Eli Manning throwing to them. Steve Smith and Manningham are good examples.

GiantsSB23
02-07-2013, 11:36 AM
I dont wanna lose him or Nicks. That's too much talent in our receiving core to give up! The bowl is in NY this year! We need 2 b stronger than ever 2 get to the playoffs and win at home! But as history shows when we lose one ringer we always make another one...Plex gone...Steve Smith emerged....Steve Smith gone....Hakeem emerged...then Victor came out of nowhere....so if Victor goes...._________ emerges? fill in the blank
Our division is getting tougher every year we need 2 make smart choices or wind up the Eagles of 2012

njersey
02-07-2013, 11:50 AM
I think everyone would be sad to see V Cruz go elsewhere. But if it happens, it won't be the end of the world (or the end of the Giants for that matter.)

You should speak only for yourself because I couldn't care less. He wants to go, show him the door. They have already had to cut some good players because of money. Cruz needs to wake the f**k up.

Jahh
02-07-2013, 11:54 AM
+1

Re: Cruz. He's a restricted free agent, so teams aren't going to overpay for him, and give the Giants a high draft pick as well.

Cruz has a ton of talent, but we've also seen what happens to guys who no longer have Eli Manning throwing to them. Steve Smith and Manningham are good examples.

I still think that slot position in our offense makes these receivers as much as the receivers make that position, if not more

slipknottin
02-07-2013, 12:09 PM
Victor will get his tender offer. Nobody would give up a first and sign him to a huge deal as a slot guy.

After next year the giants may lose him. But this year there is really no way.

BuffyBlueII
02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
+1Re: Cruz. He's a restricted free agent, so teams aren't going to overpay for him, and give the Giants a high draft pick as well. Cruz has a ton of talent, but we've also seen what happens to guys who no longer have Eli Manning throwing to them. Steve Smith and Manningham are good examples.I think we missed Mario Manningham more than he missed us.

nhpgiantsfan
02-07-2013, 02:35 PM
I think we missed Mario Manningham more than he missed us.

+1. but only because we really didn't have Nicks this year.

Shockeystays08
02-07-2013, 03:07 PM
JJ was our designated future at slot WR until Cruz came along... something to keep in mind. Also, I can tell the team would like to use him more as a WR, since towards the end of the season I was seeing 4 WR sets, with Jernigan lining up opposite Cruz.

+1

B-Red22
02-07-2013, 03:23 PM
No your not the only one, Rudyy has made about 17 threads about it

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 03:30 PM
NO YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY THREADS ON IT. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT

bg79
02-07-2013, 03:39 PM
I think he's playing with fire. A good reason on why he's been so marketable has been his personality that has been extremely likeable. If he starts going down the route of the primma donna gimme all the money in the world type of stereotypical receiver he can run the risk of doing serious damage to his "brand". I have already started to think about him in a different way than I used to. I thought he wasnt this type of guy and he's showing me at least that he's just like all the other spoiled athletes out there who seem to ignore the fact that it's a team sport and theres a salary cap.

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 03:41 PM
I think he's playing with fire. A good reason on why he's been so marketable has been his personality that has been extremely likeable. If he starts going down the route of the primma donna gimme all the money in the world type of stereotypical receiver he can run the risk of doing serious damage to his "brand". I have already started to think about him in a different way than I used to. I thought he wasnt this type of guy and he's showing me at least that he's just like all the other spoiled athletes out there who seem to ignore the fact that it's a team sport and theres a salary cap.

I'm not so sure... he still seems to be a down to earth person. He already said he's not going to hold out no matter what his contract situation is, and in fact he lets his agent do all the contract talking and is hands off. Cruz himself didn't say he wanted the 10 mil, that was his agent talking.

Methinks he could use a new agent.

Toadofsteel
02-07-2013, 03:42 PM
+1. but only because we really didn't have Nicks this year.

Amen on this. I'm perfectly fine with Nicks and Randle as our outside receivers next season. Also Manningham got an ACL injury... best wishes to him, but you never know with those sorts of injuries if the player will return to form.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 03:50 PM
I'm not so sure... he still seems to be a down to earth person. He already said he's not going to hold out no matter what his contract situation is, and in fact he lets his agent do all the contract talking and is hands off. Cruz himself didn't say he wanted the 10 mil, that was his agent talking.

Methinks he could use a new agent.

Nah, a good agent gets the best deal for his client (and himself) - look at Flacco's guy going at it.
Cruz needs the NY market, plus the Giants have the option to tender him. Cruz has little leverage.

Martin
02-07-2013, 04:14 PM
Hey I would love for him to be a long term Giant BUT
a player is one injury away from being retired in this league.

The only way I see Victor Cruz as a long term Giant is he
decides to take a lot less money.

Meaning he really wants to be a Giant but his agent is
gonna push the envelope like they all do.

I would be very surprised to see him a Giant and I don't
blame him at all for going after a huge pay day.

This is what the league is and it's his time and I would
do the exact same thing as probably many of you would too.

Be realistic it is what it is! $$$$

If it were loyalty the Giants would have kept Bradshaw !
Loyalty is not gonna keep Victor Cruz.

Don't be surprised if he's gone.

All sane or insane comments welcome!! : )

Rudyy
02-07-2013, 04:15 PM
The Bradshaw release had nothing to do with loyalty.

titwio
02-07-2013, 04:16 PM
From the layout I was expecting each line to end in rhyme.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 04:17 PM
Every player is one injury away from being retired in this league.

TheAnalyst
02-07-2013, 04:18 PM
Why are you posting this like an Edgar Allen Poe poem?

If Cruz stays the way of Big Blue
Twould be so glorious,
With Nicks Eli and Randle
We shall be victorious,

Seriously though, Cruz deserves money more then Nicks and anyone else on this team for his performances that past 2 seasons. Pay the man. He is a special talent in the slot.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 04:21 PM
Hey I would love for him to be a long term Giant BUT
a player is one injury away from being retired in this league.

The only way I see Victor Cruz as a long term Giant is he
decides to take a lot less money.

Meaning he really wants to be a Giant but his agent is
gonna push the envelope like they all do.

I would be very surprised to see him a Giant and I don't
blame him at all for going after a huge pay day.

This is what the league is and it's his time and I would
do the exact same thing as probably many of you would too.

Be realistic it is what it is! $$$$

If it were loyalty the Giants would have kept Bradshaw !
Loyalty is not gonna keep Victor Cruz.

Don't be surprised if he's gone.

All sane or insane comments welcome!! : )

What's a "lot less money"? What is he asking for? You think they should have kept Bradshaw out of loyalty?

bg79
02-07-2013, 04:25 PM
I'm not so sure... he still seems to be a down to earth person. He already said he's not going to hold out no matter what his contract situation is, and in fact he lets his agent do all the contract talking and is hands off. Cruz himself didn't say he wanted the 10 mil, that was his agent talking.

Methinks he could use a new agent.

Sounds like he needs to do something about his Agent as most people are not going to differentiate between what a player is saying and what his agent is saying. Football more than any other sport has immense endorsement and marketing deals that can be extremely lucrative if you play your cards right. Victor will have a very comfortable life if he just goes along and remains the good guy that everyone wants to root for. He does not need Joe Flacco's agent.

GameTime
02-07-2013, 04:32 PM
Hey I would love for him to be a long term Giant BUT
a player is one injury away from being retired in this league.

The only way I see Victor Cruz as a long term Giant is he
decides to take a lot less money.

Meaning he really wants to be a Giant but his agent is
gonna push the envelope like they all do.

I would be very surprised to see him a Giant and I don't
blame him at all for going after a huge pay day.

This is what the league is and it's his time and I would
do the exact same thing as probably many of you would too.

Be realistic it is what it is! $$$$

If it were loyalty the Giants would have kept Bradshaw !
Loyalty is not gonna keep Victor Cruz.

Don't be surprised if he's gone.

All sane or insane comments welcome!! : )

injury plays no factor with a player who isnt injury prone or coming off an injury
If Cruz really wants to be a Giants he should take a lot less money?? wrong. He may take a "little" less
Loyalty has nothing to do with CRuz or Bradshaw

ibbill
02-07-2013, 04:35 PM
list of top 10 WR where does Cruz fit money wise.

1. Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers – 11,000,000
2. Dwayne Bowe, Chiefs – 9,515,000
3. Wes Welker, Patriots – 9,515,000
4. Brandon Marshall, Bears – 9,300,000
5. Santonio Holmes, Jets – 7,750,000
6. Sidney Rice, Seahawks – $,7,000,000
7. Anquan Boldin, Ravens – $6,000,000
8. Roddy White, Falcons – 5,500,000
9. Darius Heyward-Bey – $5,279,000
10. Larry Fitzgerald, Cardinals – $5,000,000

Most Notable WRs not on the list: Greg Jennings ($3.89 million in 2012), Calvin Johnson ($1.25 million in 2012), and Andre Johnson ($700,000 in 2012).

GiantRoc
02-07-2013, 06:41 PM
I'm just getting the impression we may see a move to a high powered, high scoring offense. I think we will see more vets being released to make space for the skill players. They may have a lot more confidence in the younger linemen, than we know. Maybe they have a line on good draft picks to fix our LB corps and supplement the OL. I think Cruz will get a fair raise and stay. As will Bennett. Then again, he may be gone tomorrow. What the he// do I know. hahaha

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 06:46 PM
I'm just getting the impression we may see a move to a high powered, high scoring offense. I think we will see more vets being released to make space for the skill players. They may have a lot more confidence in the younger linemen, than we know. Maybe they have a line on good draft picks to fix our LB corps and supplement the OL. I think Cruz will get a fair raise and stay. As will Bennett. Then again, he may be gone tomorrow. What the he// do I know. hahaha

You could be right, but in order to do that, you still need a potent running game and a defense that keeps the other guys off the field.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 06:47 PM
I'm just getting the impression we may see a move to a high powered, high scoring offense.
The Giants already run one, or at least try to.

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 06:54 PM
where does it say calvin johnson only made $1.25 mill for 2012? i want to see proof because i dont believe you.

TheEnigma
02-07-2013, 06:58 PM
where does it say calvin johnson only made $1.25 mill for 2012? i want to see proof because i dont believe you.

That's what he made in 2012 but he still had an $11.5 cap hit from bonuses. The highest cap hit for him will be in 2016 when he costs the Lions 23 mil in cap room. It's the price you pay for someone who can potentially be the GOAT at his position.

moosedrool
02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
Realistic? Realistic is you need two stud WR's to win in this league. Nicks year long injuries highlight that fact. Cruz is great in the slot, and on intermediate and long routes. Pay the man.

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 07:05 PM
That's what he made in 2012 but he still had an $11.5 cap hit from bonuses. The highest cap hit for him will be in 2016 when he costs the Lions 23 mil in cap room. It's the price you pay for someone who can potentially be the GOAT at his position.

im not trying to ruffle your feathers, but can you link me to the information you're posting? i just can't see how that can be

TheEnigma
02-07-2013, 07:06 PM
im not trying to ruffle your feathers, but can you link me to the information you're posting? i just can't see how that can be

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/detroit-lions/calvin-johnson/

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 07:07 PM
Calvin has 50 or so guaranteed, but yes, he only "earned" $1.25 in the season just gone.

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 07:10 PM
its funny the way they play with the numbers to structure a contract

ibbill
02-07-2013, 07:12 PM
where does it say calvin johnson only made $1.25 mill for 2012? i want to see proof because i dont believe you.

http://www.sportscity.com/nfl/salaries/detroit-lions-salaries/

blueribbon
02-07-2013, 07:22 PM
What team do you think would sign him for crazy money and lose a 1st round draft pick in doing so? I wouldn't, i'd wait till 2014 when he's unrestricted. He's going to want 7 mil per year. That's alot for an undrafted player.

RoanokeFan
02-07-2013, 07:25 PM
What team do you think would sign him for crazy money and lose a 1st round draft pick in doing so? I wouldn't, i'd wait till 2014 when he's unrestricted. He's going to want 7 mil per year. That's alot for an undrafted player.

What does his being undrafted have to do with this? And if he's only asking for $7M he's a bargain

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 07:28 PM
What team do you think would sign him for crazy money and lose a 1st round draft pick in doing so? I wouldn't, i'd wait till 2014 when he's unrestricted. He's going to want 7 mil per year. That's alot for an undrafted player.
What does draft position (or lack of) have to do with a player's value? Is Tom Brady worth less than JaMarcus Russell? Is Arian Foster worth less than Mark Ingram?

blueribbon
02-07-2013, 07:32 PM
OK then answer the question, who's going to sign him?

blueribbon
02-07-2013, 07:34 PM
ok then same question for you, who's going to sign him?

Mr. G-Man
02-07-2013, 07:44 PM
do we really get a 1st round draft pick (& for when?) if someone signs him this year? cuz if thats the case, id almost welcome that scenario with the excitement of getting two 1st rounders (which i assume would be for next year). we would have a nasty young talent for several years playing under a rookie contract instead of an over-media-hyped athlete that is far too commercialized and removed from the man he was starting out as in patterson new jersey. his new life goals are geared towards making money... not making a football team so he can play in the NFL

RagTime Blue
02-07-2013, 07:58 PM
Even if we give him a 1st round (or 2-first round) tender, that only protects him for another year, and it will not be free. After that, a long-term deal either has to be hammered-out or bye-bye salsa. And at that point, Nicks is UNRESTRICTED FA. The best you compensation you get for that is at the END of the third round. . .which means a pick later than what we used for either Barden or Jernigan.

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 08:00 PM
his new life goals are geared towards making money... not making a football team so he can play in the NFL
Money is the only reason the league exists.

blueribbon
02-07-2013, 08:07 PM
Yes and the Giants can match any offer tended to him. Don't get me wrong i'd love to resign or extend Cruz's contract but this is just the begining of a long resigning process for a restricted free agent. He's rumored to want 10 mil per year. We'll try to get him gor 7 to 8 mil per.

TheAnalyst
02-07-2013, 08:08 PM
Calvin has 50 or so guaranteed, but yes, he only "earned" $1.25 in the season just gone.

Just like Eli only "earned" like 3 million this season.

TheAnalyst
02-07-2013, 08:11 PM
I would think 5 years 50 mil would be his opening offer, or his agents actually. Then it will go back and forth, probably something like 4 years $32M. Like it or not, he is our best, most reliable WR. Nicks is injuried WAY too much. Randle can fill his role much easier.

giant-4-life
02-07-2013, 08:44 PM
what we need to remember is no one is above the team and no reason to financially jeopardize our team down the road.

I wish we could adopt the Patriots formula for financial success albeit I can't stand them, they are a smart team who keeps good players but doesn't bankrupt the bank

njersey
02-07-2013, 09:02 PM
From the layout I was expecting each line to end in rhyme.


ha ha ha

Flip Empty
02-07-2013, 09:23 PM
Just like Eli only "earned" like 3 million this season.
Exactly. It's all in the guaranteed money.

gmenfan0488
02-07-2013, 10:41 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000133798/article/john-mara-victor-cruz-asking-too-much-from-giants

with this news, plus with news of the FO favoring Nicks, Cruz is almost guaranteed to not be a Giant. This may kill our offense. Nicks has already said he wants to play for the Carolina Panthers after his contract's up here. So it's looking more and more likely neither Cruz nor Nicks is a Giant in 2014

Cloud57
02-07-2013, 10:43 PM
like I said, you need to cut half the team to sign him

Drez
02-07-2013, 10:44 PM
This is old news.

Carter.525
02-07-2013, 10:45 PM
this would be a Giant mistake !!

Harooni
02-07-2013, 10:46 PM
This is old news. could this be the news i posted last week but then the mods blended it in another thread burying it for all to see? Yes i think it is.

ozzie0075
02-07-2013, 10:48 PM
Not worried at all the Giants are clearing space to make sure both will be in blue for awhile. Anytime there are contract negotiations there is going to be some back and forth.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
Don't know why all these threads are getting blended together. Well maybe some should, but not all.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
Cruz will be back,,if not,,those are the breaks,,,I have complete faith in the organization and we as giant fans are lucky to have a FO that has a clue.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
If he and his agent ask for to much he is gone.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 10:50 PM
Victor Cruz like the winter breeze,
oh how the tree's grow money
Mara wants to let it be

I like his style
I like his class
but most of all
I like his ***

Drez
02-07-2013, 10:51 PM
Don't know why all these threads are getting blended together. Well maybe some should, but not all.Well, last week there were 10,000 Cruz threads. Sometimes things like that need to be done just to keep some sense of orderliness.

Drez
02-07-2013, 10:52 PM
Either way, Nicks is more important to our team than Cruz. Don't get me wrong, I really like Cruz and it will definitely suck if he left.

Harooni
02-07-2013, 10:52 PM
its fine to blend the same news or topic but if its a new article it really shouldnt ,because fans then miss it if they arent here everyday.

RagTime Blue
02-07-2013, 10:53 PM
Do you think anyone gives up a first for him? Maybe a playoff team (low pick) with cap space (can blow-out the Giants with $$). Could you imagine him with Julio Jones for the next 5-7 years? Pats?? Denver?

ozzie0075
02-07-2013, 10:55 PM
Do you think anyone gives up a first for him? Maybe a playoff team (low pick) with cap space (can blow-out the Giants with $$). Could you imagine him with Julio Jones for the next 5-7 years? Pats?? Denver?

Bengals would make the most sense they have 55mil in cap space. Cruz and Green would be dangerous.