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Harooni
02-07-2013, 10:56 PM
i think a team would give up a first for back to back 1000 yard guy . u bet

ozzie0075
02-07-2013, 10:57 PM
i think a team would give up a first for back to back 1000 yard guy . u bet

U have to be willing to give up a first and 10mil a year. Most teams wouldn't be willing to spend that much on a slot guy.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 10:59 PM
If he left they would have Nicks, JJ, and Randle. If he stayed and they lost Nicks it would be Cruz, JJ, and Randle. It looks like the first combination might be better.

Drez
02-07-2013, 11:01 PM
i think a team would give up a first for back to back 1000 yard guy . u betIt'd be a first AND a contract for a 26 year old. It's very possible that some one will, but if the Wallace situation last season is any indication, there may be less interest than we may think there will be.

ozzie0075
02-07-2013, 11:01 PM
If he left they would have Nicks, JJ, and Randle. If he stayed and they lost Nicks it would be Cruz, JJ, and Randle. It looks like the first combination might be better.

The first combo is def better because Cruz and JJ are both slot guys.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 11:02 PM
The first combo is def better because Cruz and JJ are both slot guys.Right, so maybe that's why they are making Nicks their first priority.

ozzie0075
02-07-2013, 11:04 PM
Right, so maybe that's why they are making Nicks their first priority.

And with Nicks being banged up perhaps its cheaper to sign him now than after next year if he has a huge season.

Buddy333
02-07-2013, 11:06 PM
Yup. If they stay healthy, keep Bennett, get a RT, sign Beatty, and have Eli play better his year they could be very good. Throw some speedy RB's in there, still miss Bradshaw, and this team could be unstoppable on offense.

Sosynciere
02-07-2013, 11:15 PM
Someone might give up the first if they are closer to the back end of the first round, and feel that the addition of Cruz could put them over the top. An example: St. Louis Rams. Even though they just picked up Titus Young, adding a guy like Cruz with the second of their two first rounders would not be a terrible move. All of a sudden the WR corps would become a strength on that team with viable weapons for Bradford. Not saying it'll happen, just that it could.

The situation with Wallace is a very similar situation. An organization that doesn't overspend on free agents, an underpaid top ten receiver... Last year's free agent market for WRs was substantially stronger though. If a team has multiple needs AND multiple picks in the early rounds, it wouldn't be the worst move ever. The only other consideration in my book is whether or not a team feels they have a QB who can get him the ball.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-07-2013, 11:20 PM
Either way, Nicks is more important to our team than Cruz. Don't get me wrong, I really like Cruz and it will definitely suck if he left.

a "healthy" nicks is more important to this team,,nicks this past season will not do next season if cruz leaves.

Drez
02-07-2013, 11:25 PM
a "healthy" nicks is more important to this team,,nicks this past season will not do next season if cruz leaves.And what makes you think that Nicks will have the litany of issues he had this year next?

Rudyy
02-07-2013, 11:30 PM
Lol someone start a "Giants poems" thread.

JJC7301
02-07-2013, 11:39 PM
I want to keep either Cruz or Nicks, but not both because it'll be too much money wrapped up at WR. Nicks is the better receiver, but gets injured to easily.

I'd love to keep both, but not with a cap because money needs to be spent elsewhere as well.

Harooni
02-08-2013, 01:40 AM
Lol someone start a "Giants poems" thread. oh judging by the first page i thought this was a cruz poem thread. hahaha

Diamondring
02-08-2013, 02:49 AM
what we need to remember is no one is above the team and no reason to financially jeopardize our team down the road.

I wish we could adopt the Patriots formula for financial success albeit I can't stand them, they are a smart team who keeps good players but doesn't bankrupt the bankCause they know football is a team sport and the players help each other out. In football, the more good or decent receivers you have on the field at the same time will help each other out by all of them or most of them being big threats. We know the Pats formula for offense is to score a lot of points. That is what they try to do when they play.

Giants should have been in the playoffs even with the talent they had. I believe something was not right with the Giants when they beat the 49ers, Packers and Saints then start bad performance in other games. Giants are somewhat like the Pats in my book.

Diamondring
02-08-2013, 03:04 AM
A good receiver is a good receiver but no team will make it with just one good wr like a lot of you make it seem.

Flip Empty
02-08-2013, 03:31 AM
A good receiver is a good receiver but no team will make it with just one good wr like a lot of you make it seem.
Most teams make do with one "star" WR though.

Diamondring
02-08-2013, 03:48 AM
Most teams make do with one "star" WR though.Not with just one good receiver. Star receiver what the heck?

Flip Empty
02-08-2013, 03:53 AM
Not with just one good receiver. Star receiver what the heck?
Well how do you define "good"? How many teams have bad receivers?

Rat_bastich
02-08-2013, 04:13 AM
Not worried at all the Giants are clearing space to make sure both will be in blue for awhile. Anytime there are contract negotiations there is going to be some back and forth.

Exactly. You just have to have patience and let the situation work itself out. The front office will point out areas where Cruz is weak and try to low ball him. His agent will point out areas where he is strong and high ball the Giants. Eventually they will compromise, meet in the middle and get something done that benefits both sides with no hard feelings. All this reporting is usually just speculation or tactics. I think this season Cruz will still be a Giant.

Rat_bastich
02-08-2013, 04:21 AM
Loyalty only goes so far in a business. Guys put their bodies on the line and expect compensation. If they can get the most that is offered then it is in their best interests to take it. Loyalty is usually not loyalty in a sense that they are their for the organization or team but for what are their best chances to win a championship and raise their value. That is why so many players want to renegotiate contracts after Super Bowl wins or statistically superior seasons.

I don't blame any player for taking the money and running. Just say good things about your team and move on.

All that being said, no one but the Giants, Cruz and his agents know what has been offered. But, look at recent events and cuts and I think that besides the fact the Giants need to have money to sign rookies this year, the other reason Reese is cutting salary like a mad man is to be able to sign Cruz. Like I said in another thread....I would be surprised if you see Cruz in anything other than a Giants' uniform this year.

Diamondring
02-08-2013, 06:14 AM
Well how do you define "good"? How many teams have bad receivers?A good receiver Cruz, bad receiver right now, Braylon Edwards. Look at productions from last year.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 06:57 AM
I want to keep either Cruz or Nicks, but not both because it'll be too much money wrapped up at WR. Nicks is the better receiver, but gets injured to easily.

I'd love to keep both, but not with a cap because money needs to be spent elsewhere as well.

The team and Eli are better with both Nicks and Cruz on the field. I think they get them both, back loading one of them

Redeyejedi
02-08-2013, 07:06 AM
So Cruz puts a massive contract on the table. Then walks away and says they will agree to it eventually when they get desperate enough?

Yea. He is getting tendered this year and walking away next year.

Reese puts a value on guys and doesn't over pay them. Sorry Cruz. U cant pay a slot receiver 10 million no matter how explosive he is. Draft Stedman Bailey from WV he will give the Giants similar production on a rookie deal. I think they can almost plug and play a slot receiver in this offense.

Buddy333
02-08-2013, 07:15 AM
Seriously, wouldn't it be better to just delete entire threads than just mashing them together?

Redeyejedi
02-08-2013, 07:20 AM
Seriously, wouldn't it be better to just delete entire threads than just mashing them together?I think so. Should put a stop to duplicates immediately

nycsportzfan
02-08-2013, 07:35 AM
U cant pay a slot receiver 10 million no matter how explosive he is. Draft Stedman Bailey from WV he will give the Giants similar production on a rookie deal. I think they can almost plug and play a slot receiver in this offense. I agree.. As much as i love Victor Cruz, i think alot of his skills and production hinder on our Oline and ELI"s arm.. Meaning, u put a solid WR on this offense, theres a chance hes gonna do very well, being we got a pocket passing QB and usually a solid pass blocking Oline..

Theres plenty of WR's out tehre, that could run a solid slot for us, while we put Rueben Randle on the outside along with Nicks... Robert Woods perhaps?

bigblue58
02-08-2013, 07:48 AM
Massive contract? Where do you read that?

You have a link in your very own thread with the headline "CRUZ WANTS BIG RAISE"! What does that mean if not a big contract extension?
BIG RAISE sure as hell doesn't mean home team discount!

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 07:52 AM
And what makes you think that Nicks will have the litany of issues he had this year next?

There's no way of knowing with any certainty, however history would suggest he might miss a game or two

Buddy333
02-08-2013, 07:55 AM
Don't forget about JJ. He was just drafted 2 seasons ago. Maybe they see him a replacement should Cruz leave.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 08:01 AM
U cant pay a slot receiver 10 million no matter how explosive he is. Draft Stedman Bailey from WV he will give the Giants similar production on a rookie deal. I think they can almost plug and play a slot receiver in this offense.

You can't say that about a rookie with any amount of certainty and we've proven that often enough. If slot receivers like Cruz were all that plentiful, every team would have one. He will be here in 2013, most likely, after that, who knows?

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 08:02 AM
I think so. Should put a stop to duplicates immediately

Here's the problem with that, EVERYONE believes THEIR thread is the newest and most important piece of information since we split the atom

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 08:06 AM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000133798/article/john-mara-victor-cruz-asking-too-much-from-giants

with this news, plus with news of the FO favoring Nicks, Cruz is almost guaranteed to not be a Giant. This may kill our offense. Nicks has already said he wants to play for the Carolina Panthers after his contract's up here. So it's looking more and more likely neither Cruz nor Nicks is a Giant in 2014

Do you have a link to support the Nicks wanting to play for Carolina statement?

nycsportzfan
02-08-2013, 08:09 AM
You can't say that about a rookie with any amount of certainty and we've proven that often enough. If slot receivers like Cruz were all that plentiful, every team would have one. He will be here in 2013, most likely, after that, who knows? His point is, the unceartinty is worth not having to pay a guy 10million a yr in a sport where 10million a yr is for the biggest of big guns.. Very few should get that kinda coin.. Also its a sport guys like Victor Cruz come outta nowhere and make teams who pay 10millin per guy look stupid, way to often..

Look at the WR's in this league.. Theres just tons of em that simply got a chance and prooved they are nasty, and if they didn't get a chance due to a guy leaving because of money or a injury, you would never even know they were good..

I'm Victors biggest fan, as i called it the 2nd we got em as a UDF a guy to watch out for, and made a thread on these very boards the day of the Jets preseason game titled "victor cruz gonna break out big vs jets!".. I'm a W.MASS guy, so knew about em before most.. Either way, that would simply be a stupid contract to give a WR whos numbers dropped last yr...

Buddy333
02-08-2013, 08:17 AM
Here's the problem with that, EVERYONE believes THEIR thread is the newest and most important piece of information since we split the atomYeah, but some threads are different and they are being combined anyway.

bigblue58
02-08-2013, 08:26 AM
Cruz is explosive when he's on, and he's made big plays, but he's also had plenty of killer dropped passes, which top receivers in the NFL just don't commit.
He fancies himself a top receiver, but he's really nothing more than very good!
A healthy Nicks is ten times better than Cruz, and I think the Giants are acknowledging as much by making the injured Nicks contract a bigger priority than that of the healthy Cruz.

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 08:31 AM
I miss those wonderful days where we would have 6 threads going at the same time on the same topic. I could deal with that.
This new fancy shmancy policy of combining threads is far too confusing to my old, tired brain.

I am officially lodging a protest!!!

Morehead has spoken.

ShakeandBake
02-08-2013, 08:40 AM
I agree that we can't spend 10mil on Cruz. Look at our defense, even if we draft defense heavy we still have major holes that have to be filled immediately. Plus, we need an OT as well, two if Beatty is gone and we could use a replacement for Boothe. We can not fill all of these holes through the draft. Someone posted a link awhile back that I'm trying to find, it had the offense mirroring the defense and showed how much money each player made by position and also ranked the spending from 1-32 to compare to the rest of the league. IIRC our spending was 8th on offense and in the mid 20s on defense.

bigblue58
02-08-2013, 08:49 AM
I miss those wonderful days where we would have 6 threads going at the same time on the same topic. I could deal with that.
This new fancy shmancy policy of combining threads is far too confusing to my old, tired brain.

I am officially lodging a protest!!!

Morehead has spoken.

Boy do i ever agree with you on that! My eye strain and migraines have increased in direct proportion to these threads being combined.
If you start a petition, I'll gladly sign it!

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 08:51 AM
Boy do i ever agree with you on that! My eye strain and migraines have increased in direct proportion to these threads being combined.
If you start a petition, I'll gladly sign it!
Yeah...Trying to figure out who said what, and in response to who is giving me a headache.

How can anyone have a good old fashioned MB fight when the posts are all over the place?

I cry foul!

ShakeandBake
02-08-2013, 08:56 AM
Yeah...Trying to figure out who said what, and in response to who is giving me a headache.

How can anyone have a good old fashioned MB fight when the posts are all over the place?

I cry foul!

Yes it is hard to follow, imo just delete the duplicates

Rudyy
02-08-2013, 08:56 AM
I understand why they combine threads, but arrrgghhhh..

Redeyejedi
02-08-2013, 09:33 AM
Here's the problem with that, EVERYONE believes THEIR thread is the newest and most important piece of information since we split the atom Well they are wrong my threads are the only 1's that are important so they all should be kept

Redeyejedi
02-08-2013, 09:36 AM
You can't say that about a rookie with any amount of certainty and we've proven that often enough. If slot receivers like Cruz were all that plentiful, every team would have one. He will be here in 2013, most likely, after that, who knows? I think this offense lends itself to having productive slot players. Steve Smith was pretty damn productive. Would we get Cruz maybe not but would the Giants get a 90 catch 1000 yard receiver , I think so. Now it comes down to money value is it worth paying 10 million for a 1400 yard receiver or 1 million for a 900 yard receiver

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 09:38 AM
Yeah...Trying to figure out who said what, and in response to who is giving me a headache. How can anyone have a good old fashioned MB fight when the posts are all over the place? I cry foul! Sissie boy

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 09:39 AM
I think this offense lends itself to having productive slot players. Steve Smith was pretty damn productive. Would we get Cruz maybe not but would the Giants get a 90 catch 1000 yard receiver , I think so. Now it comes down to money value is it worth paying 10 million for a 1400 yard receiver or 1 million for a 900 yard receiver This team won't pay Cruz $10m

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 09:41 AM
Well they are wrong my threads are the only 1's that are important so they all should be kept OK, starting now, only your threads will remain beyond 5 minutes

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 09:43 AM
I understand why they combine threads, but arrrgghhhh.. Members using mobile devices go crazy trying to navigate through 15 same topic threads to read what else might happening.

Buddy333
02-08-2013, 09:45 AM
I get that but just because they are talking about the same player doesn't mean the topics are identical.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 09:54 AM
I get that but just because they are talking about the same player doesn't mean the topics are identical. We will do our best to sort them out

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 10:17 AM
Members using mobile devices go crazy trying to navigate through 15 same topic threads to read what else might happening.
What's a mobile device?

gumby74
02-08-2013, 10:19 AM
What's a mobile device?

And I thought I was the only one without a "smart phone".

Rudyy
02-08-2013, 10:19 AM
What's a mobile device? A device that can move.

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 10:20 AM
A device that can move.
Oh......You mean a car.

Yeah.....I got one of those.

Rudyy
02-08-2013, 10:22 AM
Oh......You mean a car.Yeah.....I got one of those.Yeah. In other words, if you're on your car, it will be harder to navigate through merged threads.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 11:16 AM
Oh......You mean a car.

Yeah.....I got one of those.

Stick shift no doubt

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 11:54 AM
Stick shift no doubt
I actually have one of them new fangled automatic transmissions.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 12:14 PM
I actually have one of them new fangled automatic transmissions.

DA UMMMMM

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 12:15 PM
DA UMMMMM
...and a Blackberry. (gotta have my buttons)

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 12:29 PM
...and a Blackberry. (gotta have my buttons)

Your wife and daughter would explain to you that your Blackberry is a mobile device :popcorn:

Giant stuck in Texas
02-08-2013, 01:02 PM
Some mods need to take a thread merging 101 course. :p

In all seriousness, it's getting a little difficult to follow threads.

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 01:04 PM
Your wife and daughter would explain to you that your Blackberry is a mobile device :popcorn:

I'll let you in on a little secret..... I already knew what a mobile device was.
(Although I'm sure you already knew that)

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 01:05 PM
Some mods need to take a thread merging 101 course. :p

In all seriousness, it's getting a little difficult to follow threads.
Wait a minute....there are "thread merging" classes?

Sounds like an easy A.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 01:06 PM
I'll let you in on a little secret..... I already knew what a mobile device was.
(Although I'm sure you already knew that)

You were the only person I would bet didn't need me in red :)

Drez
02-08-2013, 01:07 PM
Some mods need to take a thread merging 101 course. :p

In all seriousness, it's getting a little difficult to follow threads.Just like many posters need to take "do not make an effulence of duplicate thread" classes.

Morehead State
02-08-2013, 01:08 PM
You were the only person I would bet didn't need me in red :)
Yes but there actually might be posters who thought it was true.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 01:09 PM
Yes but there actually might be posters who thought it was true.

No denying that lmao

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 01:10 PM
Just like many posters need to take "do not make an effulence of duplicate thread" classes.

It's a no win situation.

Drez
02-08-2013, 01:16 PM
It's a no win situation.Yup. You know how when you move threads it leaves a marker thread saying it was moved? Do these boards have something like that for merged threads? Or and indicator for the thread that will tell people that the thread contains merged threads? That might help in the confusion.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Yup. You know how when you move threads it leaves a marker thread saying it was moved? Do these boards have something like that for merged threads? Or and indicator for the thread that will tell people that the thread contains merged threads? That might help in the confusion.

Yes, we have that ability, however, again for those on mobile devices, the redirects take up the same amount of page space as the thread(s) they are replacing. Some have said just delete duplicate threads. However, is that really fair to the OP? And they we get the "nazi", "gestapo", BS.

I can guarantee you we can leave it alone and we will then see "this again?", "can't you read?", etc.

Jiffy Jeff
02-08-2013, 01:50 PM
Giants better get to damn work. Cruz is the real deal. I said that last year and everyone was all like "It was just one year though." Well, now its 2 years in a row. He is our best WR because Nicks CAN NOT STAY HEALTHY! Id rather use Randle to replace Nicks. Cruz's are hard to find. Dude is humble, and well spoken, and a hell of a WR. This would be like losing Steve Smith all over again. There goes Eli's security blanket.



It's nice that Cruz is "well spoken" and all, but you don't necessarily have to be articulate with your wordage to snare passes and score touchdowns. I'll take "Opie" from Family Guy if he can find the end zone.

TheAnalyst
02-08-2013, 02:06 PM
It's nice that Cruz is "well spoken" and all, but you don't necessarily have to be articulate with your wordage to snare passes and score touchdowns. I'll take "Opie" from Family Guy if he can find the end zone.

Is that all you got from that? He is more then just well spoken.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 02:11 PM
It's nice that Cruz is "well spoken" and all, but you don't necessarily have to be articulate with your wordage to snare passes and score touchdowns. I'll take "Opie" from Family Guy if he can find the end zone.

Well, let's hope they find Opie. Just in case you're interested, Cruz has lead all receivers on this team two years in a row.

Giant stuck in Texas
02-08-2013, 03:41 PM
Just like many posters need to take "do not make an effulence of duplicate thread" classes.Agreed, but then again, that's why mods have an option to delete.

Giant stuck in Texas
02-08-2013, 03:42 PM
Wait a minute....there are "thread merging" classes?

Sounds like an easy A. When is anything every easy on the GMB?

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 03:42 PM
Agreed, but then again, that's why mods have an option to delete.

You think deleting someone's thread isn't life threatening?

Giant stuck in Texas
02-08-2013, 03:45 PM
You think deleting someone's thread isn't life threatening?lmao, I guess.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 03:45 PM
lmao, I guess.

There's no perfect answer

AllHailEli
02-08-2013, 04:36 PM
I'm curious, how many posts are combined here? Also, does it include the Nicks posts here? It kinda sucks if it does.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 04:38 PM
I'm curious, how many posts are combined here? Also, does it include the Nicks posts here? It kinda sucks if it does.

It all depends on the number of similar "threads" are created in a short period of time. Posts don't get merged

AllHailEli
02-08-2013, 04:46 PM
It all depends on the number of similar "threads" are created in a short period of time. Posts don't get merged

Yeah, I meants threads. I am not sure if I necessarily agree which threads do get combined together. :)

Anyway, one thing to get fans sour on you is if you make money an issue. Cruz hopefully does some damage control on that one, because I think people are starting to complain he's asking too much and that may not be the case.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 04:47 PM
Yeah, I meants threads. I am not sure if I necessarily agree which threads do get combined together. :)

Anyway, one thing to get fans sour on you is if you make money an issue. Cruz hopefully does some damage control on that one, because I think people are starting to complain he's asking too much and that may not be the case.

I don't get what Cruz has done to upset fans to be honest. He's entitled to ask for a pay raise. The Giants have all of the leverage, it's a process that has to play out.

nycsportzfan
02-08-2013, 10:54 PM
I don't get what Cruz has done to upset fans to be honest. He's entitled to ask for a pay raise. The Giants have all of the leverage, it's a process that has to play out. I'm not upset at all, it'd just be stupid to even consider.. Barley any players are worthy of that much , let alone a guy who just was down 500yrds compared to his last season recieving, and its his only 2seasons to speak of... I mean, we didn't make the playoffs last yr with em , and locking 10mill per yr into em would be pretty silly in my opinion... Hes simply not worth it...

Flip Empty
02-08-2013, 11:02 PM
Who is em?

JJC7301
02-09-2013, 12:32 AM
Does everyone think that we can afford to keep 2 WR's of the caliber of both Nicks AND Cruz? I, of course, don't know what what each would be making but it'll be significant. That'll be a lot of cap space locked up in 1 QB and 2 WR's.

I'm more on the side of signing both of them, but have been thinking over the past few days that maybe we should trade one of them (assuming that we can get at least a 1st & 3rd). I believe that RR will be ready to be a # 3 or # 2 WR in '13 and maybe we can draft another WR or pick up a less expensive proven # 3 as a FA.

Anyone else agree?

RichGiants81
02-09-2013, 12:36 AM
They would be foolish to let either one go unless they have no choice. It's been proven in today's nfl that you need at least two big time receivers if not three. Without jacoby jones complimenting bold in and smith.. Baltimore doesn't get that ring. In my opinion, a big time receiver is the only thing keeping the niners from getting over the hump

JJC7301
02-09-2013, 12:38 AM
They would be foolish to let either one go unless they have no choice. It's been proven in today's nfl that you need at least two big time receivers if not three. Without jacoby jones complimenting bold in and smith.. Baltimore doesn't get that ring. In my opinion, a big time receiver is the only thing keeping the niners from getting over the hump
And the Giants didn't have there 3rd in '12 when MM left.

I'm thinking of rolling the dice that RR will be ready to be a significant contributor in '13 and picking up a less expensive (long term) than either Nicks or Cruz as our 3rd WR.

RichGiants81
02-09-2013, 12:43 AM
Randle is gonna be a stud and that's all the more reason to keep nicks and Cruz both. Imagine our offense with nicks Cruz and randle playing up to his potential and then hixon or Barden in the fourth spot? That would be the best foursome in the game. If we were lucky enough to also have Bennett.... 13 could be the most productive offensive season ever for the giants

RichGiants81
02-09-2013, 12:46 AM
It's not Cruz being selfish. It's his agent. If he was a sled ish player, he would have held out last year. He has kept it classy all the way and I think the only way he walks is of they try to severely low ball him which I don't see happening. I'm more concerned with this rumor that nicks wants to be a panther after his deal expires

Drez
02-09-2013, 12:51 AM
It's not Cruz being selfish. It's his agent. If he was a sled ish player, he would have held out last year. He has kept it classy all the way and I think the only way he walks is of they try to severely low ball him which I don't see happening. I'm more concerned with this rumor that nicks wants to be a panther after his deal expiresIsn't Cruz' agent his fiancee?

Also, do you have a link to the Panther rumors?

RichGiants81
02-09-2013, 12:52 AM
I don't have the link. Someone mentioned it on here yesterday. Hopefully a rumor is all it is

Drez
02-09-2013, 01:05 AM
I don't have the link. Someone mentioned it on here yesterday. Hopefully a rumor is all it isNothing about it on the first 4 pages of several google searches. I'm going to call shenanigans on it. He probably remembered Nicks saying he wanted to play in Carolina (in reference to the game we played there in Week 3) and thought he meant that he wanted to play for Carolina.

Diamondring
02-09-2013, 01:37 AM
Randle is gonna be a stud and that's all the more reason to keep nicks and Cruz both. Imagine our offense with nicks Cruz and randle playing up to his potential and then hixon or Barden in the fourth spot? That would be the best foursome in the game. If we were lucky enough to also have Bennett.... 13 could be the most productive offensive season ever for the giantsThat is right. I don't care what people say. One poster said to me that most teams do good with one star wr. I don't go by that cause that is not good and is not true. More talant is what the team needs and that talent has different levels on each team. Some have more talent at a high level and that is what we need inorder to succeed.

I love Cruz but if he wants too much money, he has to understand that other good receivers helped him get his extra yards. If you look at all of the plays or most of them when the offense pass, look at how many defenders be around Cruz. Less defenders and he has a lot of room to move about. I have seen a lot of receivers in my time catch the ball then try to run after the catch. There be too many defenders around him and he can't get around them. That is experience you keep in your head especially when it happens majority of the time and happened to even the best players. More talented receivers we have, and Eli has more choices.

RichGiants81
02-09-2013, 02:02 AM
Why would I lie about that? It wasn't a thread, it was a comment someone made on one of the 25 conversations started about Cruz. Like I said, hopefully it's just a rumor. I wasn't trying to lend any credibility to what I read, I was merely stating that I hope what I read wasn't true

Drez
02-09-2013, 02:21 AM
Why would I lie about that? It wasn't a thread, it was a comment someone made on one of the 25 conversations started about Cruz. Like I said, hopefully it's just a rumor. I wasn't trying to lend any credibility to what I read, I was merely stating that I hope what I read wasn't trueI was saying the person who originally stated it was mistaken, not you. I just hadn't seen that post in all the merges, that's why I asked if you had the link. And as I said, I tried several different keyword searches on google and it turned up nothing, so I'm sure the OP just got confused.

22for25
02-09-2013, 03:00 AM
Im confused.

Rat_bastich
02-09-2013, 03:28 AM
I'm not upset at all, it'd just be stupid to even consider.. Barley any players are worthy of that much , let alone a guy who just was down 500yrds compared to his last season recieving, and its his only 2seasons to speak of... I mean, we didn't make the playoffs last yr with em , and locking 10mill per yr into em would be pretty silly in my opinion... Hes simply not worth it...

You have to admit it was kind of silly to expect Cruz to duplicate the numbers he had the year prior. You are comparing a season where you had a slew of 5000 yard passers to a season where there was one 5000 yard passer in Brees (which is the norm and not the exception)and a few that got close. I still say the 2011 season was a product of the lockout and defenses coming late to the season. Back to Cruz though, he still had an impressive season with a good YAC, number of yards and even touchdowns.

Now I agree that $10 million dollars would be a hefty price to pay and think the Giants may not even entertain something that high. But, Cruz has become an integral part of the team and deserves some compensation.

Sean Montemayor
02-09-2013, 03:35 AM
Yup. Cut Diehl and Webster. Save about 13-14 mil and help create contracts. And resign who else we need.(

yatitle
02-09-2013, 09:22 AM
No way they tie up that much cap space for 2 WRs. They clearly have targeted Nicks and will tender Cruz who will probably start to make some noise in the media after being underpaid for 3 years. Question is whether a team like Miami will Cruz his money and surrender a #1. Mara publicly talking about Cruz was for the purpose of preparing the fan base for his eventual departure.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 09:35 AM
I'm not upset at all, it'd just be stupid to even consider.. Barley any players are worthy of that much , let alone a guy who just was down 500yrds compared to his last season recieving, and its his only 2seasons to speak of... I mean, we didn't make the playoffs last yr with em , and locking 10mill per yr into em would be pretty silly in my opinion... Hes simply not worth it... Can you prove he is asking for $10M?

miked1958
02-09-2013, 10:00 AM
I agree that you need to do what you need to do to lock up WRs of that caliber to an extent. As people have said JR will not overpay and has a top of the line number set for both of them. We all know he will not under any circumstances go above those numbers. We all need to be prepared to lose one or both of them at some point. He feels he was able to bring in guys like SS, nicks, MM and Cruz and prob feels he can do it again under vet min or rookie contracts from new draft picks. He will let them walk. Eli and maybe JPP are only players truely safe at this point

miked1958
02-09-2013, 10:03 AM
Oh and if Eli really wants to keep these to guys in the fold all he has to do is take a Huge pay cut. He needs to anyway the 20+ Million left in each of next few seasons will cripple this team. He has to know that, and if he wants to win another ring or two prior to retirement he will need to make a compromise and give up some of his money

AllHailEli
02-09-2013, 10:48 AM
Oh and if Eli really wants to keep these to guys in the fold all he has to do is take a Huge pay cut. He needs to anyway the 20+ Million left in each of next few seasons will cripple this team. He has to know that, and if he wants to win another ring or two prior to retirement he will need to make a compromise and give up some of his money

Who in their right mind would do that? Yeah, why don't you just pay the guy a buck since clearly playing QB is just a hobby for him?

AllHailEli
02-09-2013, 10:55 AM
Can you prove he is asking for $10M?

Told ya :). There's misconception out there how much Cruz is asking and people are getting sour. I guess having Nicks prioritized is fueling that rumor.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 11:50 AM
Oh and if Eli really wants to keep these to guys in the fold all he has to do is take a Huge pay cut. He needs to anyway the 20+ Million left in each of next few seasons will cripple this team. He has to know that, and if he wants to win another ring or two prior to retirement he will need to make a compromise and give up some of his money

LOL That's not going to happen. It's a business, Eli is entitled to every penny in his contract. He (or any player) doesn't even have to be worth it. Eli did not hold a gun to their heads when they entered into his current contract. If he shold ever get to the point where he's a detriment to the team they can release him and deal with the residual CAP fallout then.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 12:01 PM
Told ya :). There's misconception out there how much Cruz is asking and people are getting sour. I guess having Nicks prioritized is fueling that rumor.

The news media started it and no amount of logic can persuade some folks that we don't really know what Cruz is asking for. John Mara said Cruz is asking for "too much, right now." He went on to say that's what agents do, blah, blah blah.

Cruz deserves a fair contract based on his skills and his record to date. None of us know what that means to the Giants. I think Reese will make a respectable offer, knowing he can rely on the tender to make Cruz stay for 2013. It's a process and we need to wait for the shoes to drop. It won't be long before we know exactly what they are going to do.

miked1958
02-09-2013, 03:09 PM
LOL That's not going to happen. It's a business, Eli is entitled to every penny in his contract. He (or any player) doesn't even have to be worth it. Eli did not hold a gun to their heads when they entered into his current contract. If he shold ever get to the point where he's a detriment to the team they can release him and deal with the residual CAP fallout then.i realize what you and others are saying. But doess it really matter if he has 20 a year or say 15 a year if it means helping re signing two of the guys that could help him win more titles

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 03:14 PM
i realize what you and others are saying. But doess it really matter if he has 20 a year or say 15 a year if it means helping re signing two of the guys that could help him win more titles

It's a contractual agreement, legally binding. Eli has been identified as THE FRANCHISE, rightly or wrongly. They have no one on the roster or on the horizon, as far as we know, who can effectively take his place. The organization went into his negotiation with their eyes open, knowing this CAP hell could result. Here we are and now Reese has to modify his usual process by releasing high rent players. So far, so good.

joemorrisforprez
02-09-2013, 04:18 PM
The Giants have all the leverage here.

Cruz will re-sign, and he'll get a nice deal.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 04:51 PM
The Giants have all the leverage here. Cruz will re-sign, and he'll get a nice deal. let's hope

GentleGiant
02-09-2013, 04:52 PM
Nonononono. Keep him. Teams can't survive with one superstar WR. Double cover nicks and then Eli has no one else to trust.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 05:02 PM
Nonononono. Keep him. Teams can't survive with one superstar WR. Double cover nicks and then Eli has no one else to trust. It's probably 90% certain Cruz will be here in 2013.

Drez
02-09-2013, 06:50 PM
It's probably 90% certain Cruz will be here in 2013.Yup. And if he isn't here in 2013, we'll have an extra 1st round pick. Even though it'd suck losing Cruz, having 2 firsts will definitely soften the blow some.

Would we get the signing team's 2013 or 2014 first rounder, though? And in the event the team has 2 firsts, do they get to choose which to give us or would it be their original selection?

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 07:26 PM
Yup. And if he isn't here in 2013, we'll have an extra 1st round pick. Even though it'd suck losing Cruz, having 2 firsts will definitely soften the blow some.

Would we get the signing team's 2013 or 2014 first rounder, though? And in the event the team has 2 firsts, do they get to choose which to give us or would it be their original selection?

I don't know for sure, but I assume the 2013 pick. I know that sounds great, but Reese doesn't always do what we'd like in the draft. Who's to say he'd take a WR in the top rounds? Who's to say if he did, he'd play in 2013? If he played, would he be successful, etc.

There's a lot of time left and a lot of players to evaluate as to their continued participation with the Giants. They have already signed two of our free agents and I would assume they are negotiating with others. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

giant-4-life
02-09-2013, 07:45 PM
I understand this is a money business. However, is he worth jeopardizing our teams salary cap issues? -no

no player is above the team. I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement.

food for thought: Steve smith did it, Jake Ballard did it.. where are they now?

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 07:48 PM
I understand this is a money business. However, is he worth jeopardizing our teams salary cap issues? -no

no player is above the team. I'm sure we can find a suitable replacement.

food for thought: Steve smith did it, Jake Ballard did it.. where are they now?

What did Smith and Ballard do that is remotely similar to Cruz?

Drez
02-09-2013, 07:48 PM
I don't know for sure, but I assume the 2013 pick. I know that soudns great, but Reese doesn't always do what we'd like in the draft. Who's to say he'd take a WR in the top rounds? Who's to say if he did, he'd play in 2013? If he played, would he be successful, etc.

There's a lot of time left and a lot of players to evaluate as to their continued participation with the Giants. They have already signed two of our free agents and I would assume they are negotiating with others. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I was just saying that if we lost Cruz, we wouldn't be left empty handed. Regardless of what position JR would choose with the pick, at least it's something. And he's done very well in the 1st, so even if the kid doesn't play much in '13, we very well will have a nice player moving forward.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 07:51 PM
I was just saying that if we lost Cruz, we wouldn't be left empty handed. Regardless of what position JR would choose with the pick, at least it's something. And he's done very well in the 1st, so even if the kid doesn't play much in '13, we very well will have a nice player moving forward.

I think they really want to be in contention for the 2014 Super Bowl. That requires an amount of continuity and that's especially so of your proven play makers in all aspects of the game. I'm pretty sure Cruz will be here in 2013, whether he's here beyond that is anyone's guess right now.

giant-4-life
02-09-2013, 07:58 PM
What did Smith and Ballard do that is remotely similar to Cruz?

Do I really have to answer that? Cruz and smith are/were our go to receivers.. Smith thought he could do better elsewhere. Ballard was a good TE who played well and did well.

point being... i don't care if cruz is a donald driver power WR, but he isn't worth throwing the team under the bus and then we suffer until we get all this salary cap stuff in order.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 08:05 PM
Do I really have to answer that? Cruz and smith are/were our go to receivers.. Smith thought he could do better elsewhere. Ballard was a good TE who played well and did well.

point being... i don't care if cruz is a donald driver power WR, but he isn't worth throwing the team under the bus and then we suffer until we get all this salary cap stuff in order.

Smith took his best offer while he was recovering from a serious injury. Ballard was claimed off of waivers when the Giants wanted to put him on the PUP list. Cruz and the Giants are negotiating terms of a contract. Since Cruz is a RFA, they have a fall back position of tendering him, which John Mara has said they will do if the can't come to agreement and then continue to negotiate a long term deal.

None of us know what Cruz has asked for or what the Giants are willing to pay him for a long term contract. Cruz is healthy and has been durable for the two years he's played. No one is "throwing the team under the bus." The team is wearing its Big Boy panties and won't do anything that puts the team at a disadvantage. You are blaming Cruz for something that hasn't happened.

The_ One
02-09-2013, 09:48 PM
Everyone is replaceable, Cruz will soon find out that Reese and the Giants are not playing around. Just like everyone cried about Smith leaving, there is always someone ready to take your job, Cruz will learn sooner or later. Giants will not pay rubber arms ten mill a year, ever since that hit against Baltimore he has not been the same player, too many drops in my book. The only WR that is worth that kind of cash is Larry Fitzgerald. We can not pay Cruz 10 mill, then we will have to come close to that for Nicks, don't think the Giants will invest twenty Million on two player in the same position, and don't forget, Cruz was not the same player without Nicks on the field, he needs another good wideout on the other side to be real successful. Out of the two Nicks is the better receiver, if he could only stay on the field.

Rat_bastich
02-09-2013, 10:37 PM
Smith took his best offer while he was recovering from a serious injury. Ballard was claimed off of waivers when the Giants wanted to put him on the PUP list. Cruz and the Giants are negotiating terms of a contract. Since Cruz is a RFA, they have a fall back position of tendering him, which John Mara has said they will do if the can't come to agreement and then continue to negotiate a long term deal.

None of us know what Cruz has asked for or what the Giants are willing to pay him for a long term contract. Cruz is healthy and has been durable for the two years he's played. No one is "throwing the team under the bus." The team is wearing its Big Boy panties and won't do anything that puts the team at a disadvantage. You are blaming Cruz for something that hasn't happened.

I think you have to fall back on the answer you gave earlier where the story the media perpetrated has grown to substitute truth. As was said, no one besides Cruz, the Giants and his agent knows what Cruz was offered and what counter offers were made. There seems to be alot of hate for Cruz based on reporting that no one has any idea that even holds a bit of truth.

I think though, when the season comes, Cruz will be locked up for a long period of time and with a contract that will not impact us to the point people think it will.

AntB
02-10-2013, 12:17 AM
Cruz doesn't seem to lose it after taking a big hit. I like Randle as a bigger and more versatile receiver. Randle, Nicks and Hixon would be freat and Eli needs to work with and be able to trust the other receivers when these guys are banged up. We really need to have a couple of good tight ends. I think Eli can make any receiver with a little talent and toughness get the job done.

Sean Montemayor
02-10-2013, 12:23 AM
Yes we are.

Sean Montemayor
02-10-2013, 12:24 AM
More salsa people!!!

PRGiant
02-10-2013, 07:58 AM
Yea. And Cruz will get tagged next season. And play under it. Then move on to some other team after that season.
This, Giants can tender this year and tag next year for around 11m. I'm sure Cruz doesn't want to play under 2 contracts like that. Agent's shouldn't pressure players to hold on for so long and risk injury.

PRGiant
02-10-2013, 08:05 AM
Oui, but whatever offer is made by another team, the Giants can match if they elect to do so or let him go and get an additional 1st round pick. That rarely happens, but it could. A first round tender only pays $2.8M. Not matter what one thinks of Cruz, he's worth significant;y more than that. A team who needs a receiving play maker and has lots of CAP space, might just out offer the Giants.

Are there any rules against 'poison pill' contracts with tendered players? Something like 3/30 with 20 on the first so that a team under cap hell cant match??

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 08:12 AM
Are there any rules against 'poison pill' contracts with tendered players? Something like 3/30 with 20 on the first so that a team under cap hell cant match??

No, if the give up a 1st, they get the player

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 08:14 AM
This, Giants can tender this year and tag next year for around 11m. I'm sure Cruz doesn't want to play under 2 contracts like that. Agent's shouldn't pressure players to hold on for so long and risk injury.

Seriously, if that's their plan, they may as well just agree to terms for a long term contract as they are admitting his worth with that strategy and purposely screwing with him. That would surprise me.

B&RWarrior
02-10-2013, 08:41 AM
I think it's fair to ASSUME Cruz wants market value. I'm almost twice as sure the two sides have very different definitions of what Cruz's market value is. As a Giant I love Cruz, but I wouldn't overpay for any player outside of QB. Even if we have a healthy Cruz and Nicks, it doesn't guarantee success. I like Cruz at the $5-7 million/year level. I'd let him walk at $9 million. Yet, if he signs for $5 million I'd have to question the wisdom and ability of his agent. The fact is the guy has done everything asked and Welker is the only other slot receiver in the conversation with him in the NFL. We are going to have to pay the Piper to keep him.

I think the FO is waiting to see what they can do in almost all other scenarios that can help their Cruz negotiations, because they consider his resigning a priority. With Randle as the third option I feel less nervous about the situation.

PRGiant
02-10-2013, 08:47 AM
That doesn't make sense.
Um...yeah....

PRGiant
02-10-2013, 09:59 AM
Seriously, if that's their plan, they may as well just agree to terms for a long term contract as they are admitting his worth with that strategy and purposely screwing with him. That would surprise me.

Just pointing out that the Giants have the leverage really. I hope they signed both long term...

B&RWarrior
02-10-2013, 10:16 AM
Just pointing out that the Giants have the leverage really. I hope they signed both long term...

How can you possibly state with any certainty who has the leverage in these negotiations? We don't know how much Cruz is willing to play for another team and we don't know what team is willing to give Cruz the world and give up a first rounder to have Cruz join their franchise. I don't think this is a negotiation where the Giants FO holds the cards. I would love to sit in this negotiation. I love this stuff. This is just like finance. JR may have the best job in the world.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 10:33 AM
How can you possibly state with any certainty who has the leverage in these negotiations? We don't know how much Cruz is willing to play for another team and we don't know what team is willing to give Cruz the world and give up a first rounder to have Cruz join their franchise. I don't think this is a negotiation where the Giants FO holds the cards. I would love to sit in this negotiation. I love this stuff. This is just like finance. JR may have the best job in the world. They "hold the cards" because of the ability to place a first round tender. BUT, as with Ballard, plans can backfire and another team can take him away by giving up a first round pick. Were that to happen, the Giants wouldn't be able to match the offer.

B&RWarrior
02-10-2013, 10:42 AM
They "hold the cards" because of the ability to place a first round tender. BUT, as with Ballard, plans can backfire and another team can take him away by giving up a first round pick. Were that to happen, the Giants wouldn't be able to match the offer.

Yeah RF that was my point, another team takes our leverage away by being willing to part with a first rounder.

Are you saying that if they give us the first rounder we won't even have a chance to match their contract offer? We can't make a higher counter offer?

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 10:45 AM
Yeah RF that was my point, another team takes our leverage away by being willing to part with a first rounder. Are you saying that if they give us the first rounder we won't even have a chance to match their contract offer? We can't make a higher counter offer? They CAN match I say they won't

brad
02-10-2013, 10:49 AM
Yeah RF that was my point, another team takes our leverage away by being willing to part with a first rounder.

Are you saying that if they give us the first rounder we won't even have a chance to match their contract offer? We can't make a higher counter offer?

With a tender you don't have to make a higher counter-offer, you can either choose to match the contract or let them walk. I think the decision depends on the contract offered.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 11:02 AM
With a tender you don't have to make a higher counter-offer, you can either choose to match the contract or let them walk. I think the decision depends on the contract offered. John Mara has already made it clear they "won't break the bank" for Cruz. That tells me they likely won't match an offer.

B&RWarrior
02-10-2013, 11:05 AM
With a tender you don't have to make a higher counter-offer, you can either choose to match the contract or let them walk. I think the decision depends on the contract offered.

By higher, I meant higher than our previous offer. I'm pretty certain Cruz would pick the Giants given equal offers.

I want a ceiling put on the money spent on Cruz based on the money we will offer Nicks. Even with the injuries he was clutch in some games just as a possession receiver, and when he's healthy I've only seen 2 CBs (Revis and Asante) that can stay with him one on one. Cruz is a really good slot receiver, but Nicks is special when healthy.

brad
02-10-2013, 11:20 AM
By higher, I meant higher than our previous offer. I'm pretty certain Cruz would pick the Giants given equal offers.

I want a ceiling put on the money spent on Cruz based on the money we will offer Nicks. Even with the injuries he was clutch in some games just as a possession receiver, and when he's healthy I've only seen 2 CBs (Revis and Asante) that can stay with him one on one. Cruz is a really good slot receiver, but Nicks is special when healthy.

Valid question... but once tendered Cruz doesn't have an option if the Giants decide to match, Giants have the first right of refusal. But, your point is well made... we are basically saying the same thing :)

B&RWarrior
02-10-2013, 11:30 AM
Valid question... but once tendered Cruz doesn't have an option if the Giants decide to match, Giants have the first right of refusal. But, your point is well made... we are basically saying the same thing :)

I got it. Initially, I thought it was up to the WR to choose in all situations, but I guess that's only for an UFA.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 11:59 AM
Just pointing out that the Giants have the leverage really. I hope they signed both long term...

They do, unless another team coughs up a 1st rounder and long term contract the Giants can't match

joemorrisforprez
02-10-2013, 12:37 PM
I'd be curious if any NFL team has matched a first round tender for a WR recently.

As much as I love Cruz, I think an extra first round pick would soften the blow if some team actually stole him.

But, I don't see any team throwing insane money at Cruz, and then using a 1st round pick as well......I look at what happened down the stretch this season as a good barometer of Cruz's overall value...... when Nicks went down, Cruz disappeared against Atlanta and the Ravens.

Cruz is "Steve Smith + "...... but he's not the best receiver in the game....I think he's one of the best #2 WR's in the game, and that's very important....but not worth top dollar in the NFL.

Sosynciere
02-10-2013, 01:02 PM
No one seems to think Jennings will get franchised in Green Bay. Same with Wallace, who played last year on a first round tender because no team would pay him and a first. Dwayne Bowe just played on the franchise tag, and most likely won't get franchised again.

Those are three wide receivers who have been #1's and won't cost additional assets.

I'm not sure what would make anyone think Cruz wouldn't be a Giant next year at the very least.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 02:01 PM
I'd be curious if any NFL team has matched a first round tender for a WR recently.

As much as I love Cruz, I think an extra first round pick would soften the blow if some team actually stole him.

But, I don't see any team throwing insane money at Cruz, and then using a 1st round pick as well......I look at what happened down the stretch this season as a good barometer of Cruz's overall value...... when Nicks went down, Cruz disappeared against Atlanta and the Ravens.

Cruz is "Steve Smith + "...... but he's not the best receiver in the game....I think he's one of the best #2 WR's in the game, and that's very important....but not worth top dollar in the NFL.

I'm not sure you can blame Cruz for the lack of offense in those two games.

joemorrisforprez
02-10-2013, 03:30 PM
I'm not sure you can blame Cruz for the lack of offense in those two games.

I'm certainly not going to call him the goat of that game. But the blame goes around. The only guy who showed up (Wilson) got stuck back on the bench, while the supposed go-to guys (Cruz) went nowhere.

I'm convinced those two 2 games made a huge impression on Reese.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 03:38 PM
I'm certainly not going to call him the goat of that game. But the blame goes around. The only guy who showed up (Wilson) got stuck back on the bench, while the supposed go-to guys (Cruz) went nowhere.

I'm convinced those two 2 games made a huge impression on Reese.

Eli has a lot to do with the potency of the offense from game to game.

In the Falcons' game he threw for 161 yards and in the Ravens's game, 150 yards

We sucked all around in those two games

joemorrisforprez
02-10-2013, 04:05 PM
Eli has a lot to do with the potency of the offense from game to game.

In the Falcons' game he threw for 161 yards and in the Ravens's game, 150 yards

We sucked all around in those two games

No argument there. My point is that he certainly didn't step up. Nobody did (except the guy that scored the TD and then saw one ****ing carry for the rest of the game).

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 04:41 PM
No argument there. My point is that he certainly didn't step up. Nobody did (except the guy that scored the TD and then saw one ****ing carry for the rest of the game).

They got behind so quickly they were trying to catch up with the passing game which was non-existent. They tired a change of pace with Lumpkin who played relatively well for being on the team for such a short period of time. Nothing worked, in both of those games we had the ball on offense for about 21 minutes. You aren't going to win games that way no matter what.

eusebiomor
02-11-2013, 12:04 PM
This kind of situation is a consecuence of bad judge for eg the contract to TT was madness, please dont misunderstood i love Resse, but the year after win the SB he take questionable decisions.

I hope we can keep Cruz into the team.

NorwoodBlue
02-11-2013, 07:05 PM
No argument there. My point is that he certainly didn't step up. Nobody did (except the guy that scored the TD and then saw one ****ing carry for the rest of the game).

Cruz stunk it up in the last three games, especially the Ravens and Falcons. 21 and 15 yards in those two games. With the whole league watching he faded away , and couldn't get open. He lost any hope he had of any team looking at him for a number 1 receiver. His only hope of gettng anywhere near the contract he wants is if a team already has a solid #1, and lots of salary cap for an over priced #2. The Giants are really in the cat birds seat here. They don't have to make a huge offer to keep him like they might if he was a UFA, and if some other team pony's up a reasonable number in the middle somewhere the Giants can sign him for that and he can't complain because that's his market value. If some other team gets stupid and goes for a big number, the Giants get a first round pick. They really can't lose.

RoanokeFan
02-11-2013, 08:10 PM
Cruz stunk it up in the last three games, especially the Ravens and Falcons. 21 and 15 yards in those two games. With the whole league watching he faded away , and couldn't get open. He lost any hope he had of any team looking at him for a number 1 receiver. His only hope of gettng anywhere near the contract he wants is if a team already has a solid #1, and lots of salary cap for an over priced #2. The Giants are really in the cat birds seat here. They don't have to make a huge offer to keep him like they might if he was a UFA, and if some other team pony's up a reasonable number in the middle somewhere the Giants can sign him for that and he can't complain because that's his market value. If some other team gets stupid and goes for a big number, the Giants get a first round pick. They really can't lose.

Eli has a lot to do with the potency of the offense from game to game.

In the Falcons' game he threw for 161 yards and in the Ravens's game, 150 yards

We sucked all around in those two games

moosedrool
02-11-2013, 08:13 PM
This thread is incredibly annoying. If you don't realize Cruz is an elite WR, you don't know jack about football.

RoanokeFan
02-11-2013, 08:15 PM
This thread is incredibly annoying. If you don't realize Cruz is an elite WR, you don't know jack about football.

Everyone has an opinion

moosedrool
02-11-2013, 09:47 PM
Cruz was not the same player without Nicks on the field, he needs another good wideout on the other side to be real successful.

And a healthy Nicks wouldn't be the same player without Cruz on the other side. You need two studs and a pretty good 3rd WR to win in this league.

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 10:15 PM
Can you prove he is asking for $10M? Absoulutley not.. I'm just basing it on whats been said around here.. Obviously, my tune would change drastically if hes asking for cheaper money, but i highly doubt it..

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 10:22 PM
You have to admit it was kind of silly to expect Cruz to duplicate the numbers he had the year prior. You are comparing a season where you had a slew of 5000 yard passers to a season where there was one 5000 yard passer in Brees (which is the norm and not the exception)and a few that got close. I still say the 2011 season was a product of the lockout and defenses coming late to the season. Back to Cruz though, he still had an impressive season with a good YAC, number of yards and even touchdowns.

Now I agree that $10 million dollars would be a hefty price to pay and think the Giants may not even entertain something that high. But, Cruz has become an integral part of the team and deserves some compensation. Ya, there could be reasons to why Cruz's numbers dropped, but just as players would use there production in negotiations, u gotta be able to use it for the FO as well.. 500yrds is a ton of yrds to drop, and he barley was a 1000yrd WR last yr... He floundered down the stretch bigtime as well...

Again, there is no one bigger fan of Cruz then i am, as i knew about this kid for yrs before he was a GIANT, and i certainly want him back, but not for 10mill per, if that is true.. To much of a team sport to be paying guys wirth 2yrs of production 10mil per.. Guranteed it would haunt us... Alot of guys stats have just as much to do with Gameplanning and playcalling, and the way ur teammates are playing at there said positons, as it does with the player asking for the money.. For instance, u put Cruz on Clevland, and who knows if hes even being asked to stay with them, let alone get possibly 10mill per..

I'm sticking with my opinion that very few in the NFL are worth 10mil per... As much as i would love to have cruz, i wouldent miss him even alittle if he signed for 10mill per with someone else.. I'd simply sit back and watch the contract become a albotrose with his new team...

Drez
02-11-2013, 10:28 PM
And a healthy Nicks wouldn't be the same player without Cruz on the other side. You need two studs and a pretty good 3rd WR to win in this league.Nicks would be a beast regardless of who is on the other side. In fact, that's what makes Nicks so good. He can be double covered and still consistently either get open or make a play while covered up. It's a trait very few in the NFL have.

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 10:34 PM
Nicks would be a beast regardless of who is on the other side. In fact, that's what makes Nicks so good. He can be double covered and still consistently either get open or make a play while covered up. It's a trait very few in the NFL have. Not to mention, Rueben Randle flashed enough to think hes got a bright future going forward.. I ddin't care for the Randle pick much, but he impressed me for a rookie... Randle is kinda insurance for the giants in the cruz negotiations, i believe..

moosedrool
02-11-2013, 11:28 PM
Nicks would be a beast regardless of who is on the other side. In fact, that's what makes Nicks so good. He can be double covered and still consistently either get open or make a play while covered up. It's a trait very few in the NFL have.

Nicks can also get "nicked" pretty easily. Some players know how to avoid getting hurt. Some players have body types susceptible to getting hurt. Nicks is the latter. Is he really good when healthy? Yes. But his best year is 1192 yards. When he learns how to stay healthy and play 16 games effectively, I'll crown him. Not until then.

RoanokeFan
02-12-2013, 06:43 AM
Nicks can also get "nicked" pretty easily. Some players know how to avoid getting hurt. Some players have body types susceptible to getting hurt. Nicks is the latter. Is he really good when healthy? Yes. But his best year is 1192 yards. When he learns how to stay healthy and play 16 games effectively, I'll crown him. Not until then.

Both Nicks and Cruz give Reese leverage.

sharick88
02-12-2013, 12:36 PM
I don't have the time to read through the 92 pages of this thread, but don't sleep on the dolphins as being a team that might go hard after Cruz. A nice young QB in Tannehill and a large hispanic community down there? Cruz would be a pretty nice fit in South Beach.

Morehead State
02-12-2013, 02:10 PM
I don't have the time to read through the 92 pages of this thread, but don't sleep on the dolphins as being a team that might go hard after Cruz. A nice young QB in Tannehill and a large hispanic community down there? Cruz would be a pretty nice fit in South Beach.
That would be awesome since their first round pick is earlier than other possible landing spots.

ShakeandBake
02-12-2013, 03:03 PM
Nicks can also get "nicked" pretty easily. Some players know how to avoid getting hurt. Some players have body types susceptible to getting hurt. Nicks is the latter. Is he really good when healthy? Yes. But his best year is 1192 yards. When he learns how to stay healthy and play 16 games effectively, I'll crown him. Not until then.

How does Nicks' body type make him susceptible to injury? Broken toes and feet are not contact injuries, and Nicks is decent size for a WR

nycisgreat
02-12-2013, 08:02 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/01/31/new-york-giants-victor-cruz-says-theres-been-no-movement-in-contract-talks/

Excerpt: "One of the New York Giants (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york-giants/)' top priorities this offseason is to come to a contractual agreement with wide receiver Victor Cruz (http://www.giants101.com/tag/victor-cruz/), who is slated to become a Restricted Free Agent (RFA) in March. And although the two sides have periodically attempted to work on finalizing a new deal, they are no closer now than they were during the season when negotiations were initially tabled.

While appearing on SiriusXM NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/)Radio on Thursday morning, Cruz revealed that there has been no progress, and that he and his agent are patiently waiting for the Giants to return with a counter-offer.

"We're just waiting for them to come back to us," Cruz said. Im not getting antsy at all I know they have to come around at some point. Read more...


Cruz wants big raise - Mara says no $$$$$ any time soon
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/giants-...1RgxMAzvzQtDMD (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/giants-wr-cruz-wants-big-004005284--nfl.html;_ylt=A2KJ3CYMbQ1RgxMAzvzQtDMD)

Since the cap is tighter than a nun's privates , we are in trouble.

Cruz also not ruling out a hold out wants 10mil per.

(i think he earned a big contract playing for below 400k for 2 seasons. )









I like Cruz, but IMO he isn't worth 10 mil.

Alive741
02-12-2013, 08:33 PM
I like Cruz, but IMO he isn't worth 10 mil. I'm with you. I don't know if I'm just optimistic, but I'm really thinking they'll settle somewhere reasonable. I don't think anyone here wants to see Cruz go anywhere.

nhpgiantsfan
02-12-2013, 08:44 PM
That would be awesome since their first round pick is earlier than other possible landing spots.

I'm with you, but could we even afford to sign two first round picks this year??

Morehead State
02-12-2013, 09:39 PM
I'm with you, but could we even afford to sign two first round picks this year??
With the new rookie pay scale?.....Absolutely!

StrahanSoup92
02-12-2013, 10:04 PM
Theres no way we dont keep cruz. No way. They will make a deal, you will see.

He wont get 10 mil either.

Carter.525
02-12-2013, 10:04 PM
Theres no way we dont keep cruz. No way. They will make a deal, you will see.

I really hope this is true..

JB456
02-13-2013, 10:37 AM
Theres no way we dont keep cruz. No way. They will make a deal, you will see.

He wont get 10 mil either.

I really hope you are right but I think you are wrong. There are a lot of free agents that need to be signed and both Nicks and Cruz are due big pay days + New draft picks. The Giants are in pretty bad cap shape. I know this might be blasphemy to many members here but I would be estatic with a mid round 1 draft pick in exchange for Cruz this year since I think he is gone next year.

Don't get me wrong, I love what Cruz has brought to this team and would love to keep him but I just don't think they can.

Tony Bruno
02-13-2013, 11:58 AM
I think Cruz is a product if our system... There is no doubt that he is an amazing player... But I think the "option route" he has is something that A. other teams dont run (at least I think) as often and B. to be effective at that he must be on the same page with the QB...

I know the probown means nothing but he had Brees playing QB and wasnt even looked at unti Eli came in... I really think his value on another team will be high but I dont see him as effective anywhere unless he goes to a team with an Elite QB... And then the $ he is asking may not be meet as there is caps on every team...

I hope he stays in NY!!!

RoanokeFan
02-13-2013, 12:02 PM
I think Cruz is a product if our system... There is no doubt that he is an amazing player... But I think the "option route" he has is something that A. other teams dont run (at least I think) as often and B. to be effective at that he must be on the same page with the QB...

I know the probown means nothing but he had Brees playing QB and wasnt even looked at unti Eli came in... I really think his value on another team will be high but I dont see him as effective anywhere unless he goes to a team with an Elite QB... And then the $ he is asking may not be meet as there is caps on every team...

I hope he stays in NY!!!

As for the Pro Bowl, he set a record of 10 catches and that was from three QBs. I know all about the Pro Bowl being a beauty pageant but when you think back to the days when it was all player driven, it's interesting, at least, that he set the record for the most catches. The man has talent.

Ruttiger711
02-13-2013, 12:06 PM
I think Cruz is a product if our system... There is no doubt that he is an amazing player... But I think the "option route" he has is something that A. other teams dont run (at least I think) as often and B. to be effective at that he must be on the same page with the QB...

I know the probown means nothing but he had Brees playing QB and wasnt even looked at unti Eli came in... I really think his value on another team will be high but I dont see him as effective anywhere unless he goes to a team with an Elite QB... And then the $ he is asking may not be meet as there is caps on every team...

I hope he stays in NY!!!

Pretty sure the option is present in a good amout of teams, but not to the extent of KG's offense. I think it was real early this season there was a thread on comparing the Giants O now to the old run and shoot where it was noted that in KG's system now, each of the receivers - X, Y and Z have 3 options to choose from on any given play.

I think getting to the probowl is a negotiation point, but performance in a probowl - in a game they are considering doing away with entirely becuase of a lack of effort, no way. Rack up 300 yards in a PB, i dont care, its not going to inflate your contract from an owners perspective.

Tony Bruno
02-13-2013, 12:08 PM
As for the Pro Bowl, he set a record of 10 catches and that was from three QBs. I know all about the Pro Bowl being a beauty pageant but when you think back to the days when it was all player driven, it's interesting, at least, that he set the record for the most catches. The man has talent.

Ill be really upset if he leaves... Yea I hate to make a comparison with the Pro Bowl but Eli I think completed 6-8 of those 10 passes to him... My point is I think Eli and him have a great chemistry... Its like they are in eachothers mind!!! All i can think about is that bowm in the Skins game at the end... That was a classic example of the chemistry and play recognition... I do feel an Elite QB could keep VC at the top but not just any QB... Well see for sure though!!!

RoanokeFan
02-13-2013, 12:12 PM
Ill be really upset if he leaves... Yea I hate to make a comparison with the Pro Bowl but Eli I think completed 6-8 of those 10 passes to him... My point is I think Eli and him have a great chemistry... Its like they are in eachothers mind!!! All i can think about is that bowm in the Skins game at the end... That was a classic example of the chemistry and play recognition... I do feel an Elite QB could keep VC at the top but not just any QB... Well see for sure though!!!

I think Eli made 5 of those, maybe six. My point is he set a record that had stood for some time. Cruz has talent. If we can't take advantage of it due to the CAP, then we can't. Life goes on. But if we are really serious about getting to the Super Bowl in 2014, it would be to our best interests to have him on the final 53.

StrahanSoup92
02-13-2013, 06:41 PM
I really hope you are right but I think you are wrong. There are a lot of free agents that need to be signed and both Nicks and Cruz are due big pay days + New draft picks. The Giants are in pretty bad cap shape. I know this might be blasphemy to many members here but I would be estatic with a mid round 1 draft pick in exchange for Cruz this year since I think he is gone next year.

Don't get me wrong, I love what Cruz has brought to this team and would love to keep him but I just don't think they can.

Well. first off, rookies dont get big paydays anymore, so signing draft picks is no longer an issue. That being said, in order to resign cruz more cuts will have to be made, or some friendly restructuring from more Giants players. Either way, I cant see the Giants let go of a franchise WR like cruz. His age and ability make him more valuable than any slot receiver in the league.

The only way I can see him getting let go, is it he is tagged this year, and gets hurt next season, that or he doesnt produce like he has in the last 2 years. If he is the same Cruz again next season, and IMO out most valuable player, hes not going anywhere. Reese is no fool, and he wont just let a player like Cruz go for nothing, no way.

I also wanna say this, for years Ive been on these boards during this time of year, its where I get some good draft info, and every year we have someone who needs to be resigned. Just because its POSSIBLE that Cruz will not be with us in 2 years, does not make it TRUE.

StrahanSoup92
02-13-2013, 06:45 PM
I think Eli made 5 of those, maybe six. My point is he set a record that had stood for some time. Cruz has talent. If we can't take advantage of it due to the CAP, then we can't. Life goes on. But if we are really serious about getting to the Super Bowl in 2014, it would be to our best interests to have him on the final 53.

Unless Im mistaken, Cruz has to stay with us for at least one more year. He can be tagged, and kept till the 2014 off season to enter FA. They are in no rush to sign him, they have over a year to do so.

Drez
02-13-2013, 06:48 PM
. Either way, I cant see the Giants let go of a franchise WR like cruz. His age and ability make him more valuable than any slot receiver in the league.



.As great as Cruz is, he falls just short of being a franchise WR.

Broadway Blue
02-13-2013, 06:48 PM
Unless Im mistaken, Cruz has to stay with us for at least one more year. He can be tagged, and kept till the 2014 off season to enter FA. They are in no rush to sign him, they have over a year to do so.

Think Cruz will holdout?

Drez
02-13-2013, 06:52 PM
Think Cruz will holdout?No. Or at least not for long. The longer this goes on, the less leverage he has. It could even reach a point where he could be playing on a $600k contract or not play at all. And if he doesn't play, he doesn't get an accrued year and remains a restricted free agent in 2014.

StrahanSoup92
02-13-2013, 06:56 PM
Think Cruz will holdout?

From what ive read, Cruz isnt too worried about it at this point, and neither should we the fans. If the Giants bend and make a reasonable deal for him, I think he will stay. He has a great relationship with Eli, and with Coughlin, and he has nothing but praise for the Giants giving him another chance, time and time again.

RoanokeFan
02-13-2013, 07:33 PM
Unless Im mistaken, Cruz has to stay with us for at least one more year. He can be tagged, and kept till the 2014 off season to enter FA. They are in no rush to sign him, they have over a year to do so.

He can be tendered with a first round pick which would require any team who wants to make him an offer to give up their 1st round pick. While that rarely happens, it is not impossible. Should that happen, the Giants would have to match the financial offer to keep Cruz.

StrahanSoup92
02-14-2013, 05:18 PM
He can be tendered with a first round pick which would require any team who wants to make him an offer to give up their 1st round pick. While that rarely happens, it is not impossible. Should that happen, the Giants would have to match the financial offer to keep Cruz.

Gotcha thanks.

RoanokeFan
02-14-2013, 05:51 PM
Think Cruz will holdout?

It never works out, so let's hope not.