PDA

View Full Version : Jerry Reese Knows When It's Time To Cut Bait



RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 11:26 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/ruthless_genius_QYZsin7b7gay9LIa3zRH1K

Wellington Mara called it “a day of overwhelming sadness’’ as the Giants tossed Phil Simms onto the scrap heap, making him the first high-profile salary cap casualty in franchise history. This was after the 1993 season. While few, if any, of the player releases that followed have been as emotional, this latest barrage is a reminder of the NFL life cycle.

“It’s a machine,’’ Luke Petitgout told The Post yesterday. “Players think they have the power and the leverage. It’s the team. It never stops. It spits people out left and right.’’

The machine this week churned out linebacker Michael Boley, defensive tackle Chris Canty and, most cruelly, running back Ahmad Bradshaw, whom Giants fans might view the way Dorothy lamented Scarecrow, knowing she would miss him most of all. More could follow. Players who contributed to a Super Bowl championship and, in Bradshaw’s case, two of them, are always more difficult to send packing. Some may laud general manager Jerry Reese for his decisiveness, but the real trick is to find replacements because right now, today, the Giants aren’t any better than they were a few days ago.

“He’s basically getting rid of the guys before they expire, so to speak,’’ Petitgout said.

The man knows what time it is. Just as Simms was a first for the former general manager, George Young, Petitgout was the first for Reese back in 2007, the first big-ticket player to be shown the door not long after Reese took the baton from Ernie Accorsi. A reliable left tackle, Petitgout was a first-round pick from Notre Dame and he lasted eight years with the Giants. He still recalls he was “shocked’’ around Valentine’s Day in 2007 when he was summoned into Tom Coughlin’s office.

In the weeks that followed, Petitgout did not hide his bitterness, at the time claiming he was “basically kicked off the club” by Reese.“I wasn’t exactly Mary Poppins on my way out,’’ Petitgout said six years later. “I think that’s just because I love the Giants. That’s really what the bottom line is. It hurts a player to the soul. It’s like back to the playground days of the last guy to get picked, that kind of deal.’’ Read more...

ibbill
02-08-2013, 11:51 AM
Do we blame the players union for allowing the owners to set the cap at the rate it now is?

I Bleed Blue 56
02-08-2013, 12:25 PM
I liked Petitgout alot but Reese let him go for a reason he declined and if not mistaken he was out of the nfl a year later. The Giants are loyal to players more than any other team in the nfl. Green Bay is a close second but we had to cut ways with these players yes its cap room but these players aint worth the money they are being paid. Osi could have retired a Giant had he been smarter about his contract. Tuck will retire a Giant we have a rich history and its amazing to see this team continue their sucess.

TheAnalyst
02-08-2013, 12:44 PM
I keep getting the feeling we are in a rebuilding era, but trying to resist it, prolonging the time until we are once again a great team.

If Simms was a salary cap dump, could Eli be with his $20M yearly salary that is crippling the team?

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 12:51 PM
I keep getting the feeling we are in a rebuilding era, but trying to resist it, prolonging the time until we are once again a great team.

If Simms was a salary cap dump, could Eli be with his $20M yearly salary that is crippling the team?

We won't know until FA is done.

titwio
02-08-2013, 12:59 PM
I keep getting the feeling we are in a rebuilding era, but trying to resist it, prolonging the time until we are once again a great team.

If Simms was a salary cap dump, could Eli be with his $20M yearly salary that is crippling the team?

I see it more as an adjustment period than rebuilding. It's almost like the Giants are smoozing their way out a precarious situation right now. I believe the real rebuilding period will come in about two years when the Giants decide to draft Eli's successor... and start looking to the future with eyes on life after his enormous contract.

simmstolt
02-08-2013, 01:15 PM
I keep getting the feeling we are in a rebuilding era, but trying to resist it, prolonging the time until we are once again a great team.

If Simms was a salary cap dump, could Eli be with his $20M yearly salary that is crippling the team?

I don't think we are in rebuilding mode until we don't have a healthy, special Eli. He had a down year last year, not surprising with the turnstile RT situation, but I won't call it rebuilding until we don't have a Hall of Fame level QB and in any big game we still have that.

gmen46
02-08-2013, 04:28 PM
I keep getting the feeling we are in a rebuilding era, but trying to resist it, prolonging the time until we are once again a great team.

If Simms was a salary cap dump, could Eli be with his $20M yearly salary that is crippling the team?

Simms had just completed his 15th season in the pros. And although he had a very good 1993 and took Giants to the post season, Young had to have been asking himself "how many more years does Phil have left, producing at that level? One? Two?" Young weighed the pros and cons, just as Reese does every year. As much as I truly hated the decision at the time, it still was clear to me that he'd made a business decision to pivot to the future with a young QB just starting out. It was the misfortune for the organization and for all us fans that the "future" was embodied at the time in the form of Dave Brown.

Eli, entering his 10th season, is still in the prime of his career. The two situations (Simms and Manning) are nowhere near close to being comparable.

Eli has at minimum 6 or 7 years of highly productive seasons left. I'm basing that number on his family history (primarily Peyton coming off his 16th--15th playing--season nearly being named for his 5th MVP award) and on the average number of high productive seasons many of his predecessors have had in the NFL.

There is no "rebuilding" going on with the Giants. It's called the NFL Off-Season in the era of salary caps and free agency.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 04:34 PM
Do we blame the players union for allowing the owners to set the cap at the rate it now is?

Why does anyone need to be blamed? If we didn't have the CAP, teams in the largest media markets would dominate the NFL.

Cloud57
02-08-2013, 04:44 PM
Why does anyone need to be blamed? If we didn't have the CAP, teams in the largest media markets would dominate the NFL.agreed, no team should have an advantage over the other.

egyptian420
02-08-2013, 04:48 PM
I see it more as an adjustment period than rebuilding. It's almost like the Giants are smoozing their way out a precarious situation right now. I believe the real rebuilding period will come in about two years when the Giants decide to draft Eli's successor... and start looking to the future with eyes on life after his enormous contract.+1....rebuilding is more like what the Eagles are going through right now: entirely new coaching staff, possibly a new QB, changing of their personnel and playbooks...etc.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 04:49 PM
agreed, no team should have an advantage over the other.

The NLF has Wellington Mara to thank for parity. It's really a good thing. The amount can always be argued, but not the purpose in having it.

RoanokeFan
02-08-2013, 04:50 PM
+1....rebuilding is more like what the Eagles are going through right now: entirely new coaching staff, possibly a new QB, changing of their personnel and playbooks...etc.

True, whatever continuity they may have had left with Reid

AllHailEli
02-08-2013, 05:29 PM
I keep getting the feeling we are in a rebuilding era, but trying to resist it, prolonging the time until we are once again a great team.

If Simms was a salary cap dump, could Eli be with his $20M yearly salary that is crippling the team?

We are rebuilding a year removed from Super Bowl? Ain't we overreacting? I guess this is just the same crap, different year. :)

gmen0820
02-08-2013, 05:47 PM
Not convinced of this until we cut Diehl lol

Flip Empty
02-08-2013, 05:50 PM
He's cutting people because he has no choice.

jomo
02-08-2013, 06:04 PM
I liked Petitgout alot but Reese let him go for a reason he declined and if not mistaken he was out of the nfl a year later. The Giants are loyal to players more than any other team in the nfl. Green Bay is a close second but we had to cut ways with these players yes its cap room but these players aint worth the money they are being paid. Osi could have retired a Giant had he been smarter about his contract. Tuck will retire a Giant we have a rich history and its amazing to see this team continue their sucess.I agree but would add. It is not the cap at the core of the cuts. It is the production we receive from the player in relation to their salary. Petigout, never great, had declining skills with a salary that was disconnected from his contributions. He was understandably hurt, even offended but his decision was as easy as Boley and Canty. AB was a little different. He might be worth the money but in total, we can't afford to commit that much dough to the running back position given how much we are soon to pay Wilson and how much we need to fill out the rest of the roster. Still, cutting AB was the right decision.

Sean Montemayor
02-08-2013, 06:30 PM
I see it more as an adjustment period than rebuilding. It's almost like the Giants are smoozing their way out a precarious situation right now. I believe the real rebuilding period will come in about two years when the Giants decide to draft Eli's successor... and start looking to the future with eyes on life after his enormous contract. And I hope it will be Texas A &M's Johnny Manziel.

RichGiants81
02-09-2013, 12:32 AM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/ruthless_genius_QYZsin7b7gay9LIa3zRH1K

Wellington Mara called it “a day of overwhelming sadness’’ as the Giants tossed Phil Simms onto the scrap heap, making him the first high-profile salary cap casualty in franchise history. This was after the 1993 season. While few, if any, of the player releases that followed have been as emotional, this latest barrage is a reminder of the NFL life cycle.

“It’s a machine,’’ Luke Petitgout told The Post yesterday. “Players think they have the power and the leverage. It’s the team. It never stops. It spits people out left and right.’’

The machine this week churned out linebacker Michael Boley, defensive tackle Chris Canty and, most cruelly, running back Ahmad Bradshaw, whom Giants fans might view the way Dorothy lamented Scarecrow, knowing she would miss him most of all. More could follow. Players who contributed to a Super Bowl championship and, in Bradshaw’s case, two of them, are always more difficult to send packing. Some may laud general manager Jerry Reese for his decisiveness, but the real trick is to find replacements because right now, today, the Giants aren’t any better than they were a few days ago.

“He’s basically getting rid of the guys before they expire, so to speak,’’ Petitgout said.

The man knows what time it is. Just as Simms was a first for the former general manager, George Young, Petitgout was the first for Reese back in 2007, the first big-ticket player to be shown the door not long after Reese took the baton from Ernie Accorsi. A reliable left tackle, Petitgout was a first-round pick from Notre Dame and he lasted eight years with the Giants. He still recalls he was “shocked’’ around Valentine’s Day in 2007 when he was summoned into Tom Coughlin’s office.

In the weeks that followed, Petitgout did not hide his bitterness, at the time claiming he was “basically kicked off the club” by Reese.“I wasn’t exactly Mary Poppins on my way out,’’ Petitgout said six years later. “I think that’s just because I love the Giants. That’s really what the bottom line is. It hurts a player to the soul. It’s like back to the playground days of the last guy to get picked, that kind of deal.’’ Read more...

Lol I can't believe he was shocked when they let him go, they should have dropped him after that infamous Seattle game

JJC7301
02-09-2013, 12:34 AM
Great article and JR makes the right move 99% of the time on cutting the cord. That's why, while sad, I'm not mad that AB (my favorite player) got cut.

But I still fault JR for letting Cofield walk and keeping Canty who just got cut. That was just stupid.

JJC7301
02-09-2013, 12:36 AM
The NLF has Wellington Mara to thank for parity. It's really a good thing. The amount can always be argued, but not the purpose in having it.
The cap is one of the things that makes the NFL the best sport in the world. Love that smaller cities have the same chances as the big ones.

JimC
02-09-2013, 07:33 AM
Do we blame the players union for allowing the owners to set the cap at the rate it now is?You're kidding right? They are the OWNERS! It's a business and about profit and loss.

RagTime Blue
02-09-2013, 10:34 AM
If the salary cap were 25% higher, players would be paid 25% more, and we'd still have the same number of cap casualties.

jomo
02-09-2013, 10:51 AM
If the salary cap were 25% higher, players would be paid 25% more, and we'd still have the same number of cap casualties.You've just illustrated that it really isn't that complicated. Some here still won't get it.

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 12:03 PM
If the salary cap were 25% higher, players would be paid 25% more, and we'd still have the same number of cap casualties.

BINGO!

Toadofsteel
02-09-2013, 12:41 PM
The cap is one of the things that makes the NFL the best sport in the world. Love that smaller cities have the same chances as the big ones.

Exactly. It also means that even though we might gripe at Rolle being "overpaid", that contract is rather average in other sports. Look at Arod, for example...

RoanokeFan
02-09-2013, 12:46 PM
Exactly. It also means that even though we might gripe at Rolle being "overpaid", that contract is rather average in other sports. Look at Arod, for example...

And we have the benefit of knowing a player is overpaid years after the signing :rolleyes:

Rat_bastich
02-10-2013, 04:58 AM
Also in the article they mention LaVar Arrington and Carlos Emmons like they were surprises. Emmons had career ending back surgery and Arrington ruptured his achilles tendon and never played a down of football again.

I'm trying to remember which comedian said that the New York Post is like someone that read a newspaper or heard a news story and they are trying to explain what they read to someone else.

Rat_bastich
02-10-2013, 05:08 AM
The cap is one of the things that makes the NFL the best sport in the world. Love that smaller cities have the same chances as the big ones.

Agree. Though I am a Yankees fan I think the cap is a great thing for the NFL and forces them to replace players at a faster rate, cycling in younger players and forcing the older ones to go other places or to retire. I think the NFL has a more even playing field than all the other major sports and anyone can win a Super Bowl at any time.

PRGiant
02-10-2013, 07:28 AM
You mean Luke 'Offsides' Petigout?

RagTime Blue
02-10-2013, 07:33 AM
the New York Post is like someone that read a newspaper or heard a news story and they are trying to explain what they read to someone else.

I like that!

RagTime Blue
02-10-2013, 07:47 AM
agreed, no team should have an advantage over the other.

The cap only covers players. Big market teams still have an advantage in recruiting coaches and front-office, and facilities.

But I agree that the NFL has done the best job of putting out a fair and balanced product. NHL has also come around. In the NBA, star-power is just too powerful. It's just what you get when you only have 5 men playing at once. MLB tried to do something by instituting revenue-sharing, but it's done the opposite, by letting poor teams with bad attendance become profitable by keeping payroll down.

Toadofsteel
02-10-2013, 08:45 AM
I'm trying to remember which comedian said that the New York Post is like someone that read a newspaper or heard a news story and they are trying to explain what they read to someone else.

Let me know if you remember who that was, i'd love to look up video on that...

jomo
02-10-2013, 09:04 AM
And we have the benefit of knowing a player is overpaid years after the signing :rolleyes:I view the managing of the salary cap as another way we compete just as important as game prep and gameday execution.

If the FO wastes money on the wrong person, that dramatically impacts the construction of the remaining team and that gets directly to talent.

Stated differently, we are not going to win a SB without great talent and we are not going to have a great and balanced roster if we spend too much on one position or spend too much on a player who underperforms etc. It is a cool part of being an NFL fan and why the NFL off season is the best off season in professional sports.

miked1958
02-10-2013, 09:08 AM
And I hope it will be Texas A &M's Johnny Manziel.you do realize that "Johnny Football" will come out the overall number 1 Pick of that years Draft. The GIANTS would have to lose all but 1 or 2 games that prior year or Trade up like Crazy in order to have a shot at him.

jomo
02-10-2013, 09:09 AM
The cap only covers players. Big market teams still have an advantage in recruiting coaches and front-office, and facilities.

But I agree that the NFL has done the best job of putting out a fair and balanced product. NHL has also come around. In the NBA, star-power is just too powerful. It's just what you get when you only have 5 men playing at once. MLB tried to do something by instituting revenue-sharing, but it's done the opposite, by letting poor teams with bad attendance become profitable by keeping payroll down.I think we also have a big advantage for some players like Cruz who envision a career in the media post football. Does Michael Strahan get the big money gig in the morning if he spent his career in Kansas City? The Giants and Cruz need to keep that in mind as they work their way through this negotiation. Don't get me wrong, if he stays he needs to be fairly paid but in the end, a few less bucks (whatever that is) with the Giants could be worth many more lifetime dollars.

miked1958
02-10-2013, 09:11 AM
However it will be worth it as I see him as being one of the QBs that will come out just like all the ones last year that made an automatic impact on their teams records turning them around from bad teams to playoffs teams in the span of one season

gmen46
02-10-2013, 02:17 PM
I view the managing of the salary cap as another way we compete just as important as game prep and gameday execution.

If the FO wastes money on the wrong person, that dramatically impacts the construction of the remaining team and that gets directly to talent.

Stated differently, we are not going to win a SB without great talent and we are not going to have a great and balanced roster if we spend too much on one position or spend too much on a player who underperforms etc. It is a cool part of being an NFL fan and why the NFL off season is the best off season in professional sports.

I agree with this comment, in general, especially your first sentence.

I'd go further. The issue is not whether a team is perennially at, or over, the cap, as some on this board seem to believe (and chastise Reese for).

The issue instead is how the cap is managed year-to-year, and how much value a given team gets out of its management of the cap.

For example, I think it's noteworthy that 4 of the last 6 Super Bowl winners (Giants, Steelers, Saints, Giants) entered this off season over the cap. And the Ravens, who enter the 2013 off season approx $12 mi under the cap, are about to become a team with a severe cap issue when they sign a new Flacco contract.

On the other hand, two examples of teams who do not manage their cap issues very well each year are #1 Jets ($23 mil over this year) and #2 Cowboys ($21 mil over).

Just like it is foolish to judge a player's overall worth for his performance on just 1 play, or even in just 1 game--good or bad--it is foolish to slam Reese for continuously juggling players to keep within the cap (just like every other GM is required to do) when his results overall have been not only good, but better than most.

This measure applies to certain "exceptions" as well, in reference to an individual compensation package. How many times over the past 3 years have we seen criticism on this board of Eli's "too high" compensation? We see that a lot regarding Rolle's contract as well. There are some others who fit that mold for some fans, but these are 2 in particular that are likely judged by Reese % Co to be worth every penny of their contracts because of the market place today and because of everything aside from raw stats they bring to the Giants.

Has Reese made some mistakes? Of course. Every other GM has, too. But his good moves--in the draft and in FA--far surpass his "failures". And we have 2 Championships--and counting--during his 6 years as GM that confirm this conclusion. How many other teams' GMs can make that claim since the beginning of the salary cap era 20 years ago? Pats? Steelers? Broncos? And I'm not even sure if the Steelers and Pats had the same GM for all of their SB wins.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 02:22 PM
I view the managing of the salary cap as another way we compete just as important as game prep and gameday execution.

If the FO wastes money on the wrong person, that dramatically impacts the construction of the remaining team and that gets directly to talent.

Stated differently, we are not going to win a SB without great talent and we are not going to have a great and balanced roster if we spend too much on one position or spend too much on a player who underperforms etc. It is a cool part of being an NFL fan and why the NFL off season is the best off season in professional sports.

I think that's true. It's a delicate balancing act. I think the amount of restructuring that was done finally caught up with us.

ELI_Iz_God
02-10-2013, 08:18 PM
Why does anyone need to be blamed? If we didn't have the CAP, teams in the largest media markets would dominate the NFL.

I have zero Sympathy for organizations who don't have as much money and wouldn't be able to keep up with the Bigger Successful Franchises. The CAP is in place only to level the playing field money-wise, which is BS.

If the smaller organizations feel this is unfair..then find a way to make more money...find a way to fill your seats...but don't expect a handicap for your benefit...it's pathetic.

RoanokeFan
02-10-2013, 08:48 PM
I have zero Sympathy for organizations who don't have as much money and wouldn't be able to keep up with the Bigger Successful Franchises. The CAP is in place only to level the playing field money-wise, which is BS.

If the smaller organizations feel this is unfair..then find a way to make more money...find a way to fill your seats...but don't expect a handicap for your benefit...it's pathetic.

The NFL would not have the teams it has were it not for CAP

gumby74
02-11-2013, 08:35 AM
I have zero Sympathy for organizations who don't have as much money and wouldn't be able to keep up with the Bigger Successful Franchises. The CAP is in place only to level the playing field money-wise, which is BS.

If the smaller organizations feel this is unfair..then find a way to make more money...find a way to fill your seats...but don't expect a handicap for your benefit...it's pathetic.

Are you a yankees fan too?

Flip Empty
02-11-2013, 08:57 AM
I have zero Sympathy for organizations who don't have as much money and wouldn't be able to keep up with the Bigger Successful Franchises. The CAP is in place only to level the playing field money-wise, which is BS.

If the smaller organizations feel this is unfair..then find a way to make more money...find a way to fill your seats...but don't expect a handicap for your benefit...it's pathetic.
You'd rather see teams buy championships year-in and year-out? That's what'd be pathetic.

Rat_bastich
02-11-2013, 12:28 PM
Let me know if you remember who that was, i'd love to look up video on that...

John Mulaney. It just came to me.

BlueReign
02-11-2013, 12:32 PM
I believe the NFL should have something similar to Bird Rights like the NBA so players would be less likely to hold a team hostage ala Revis.

Redeyejedi
02-11-2013, 12:41 PM
you do realize that "Johnny Football" will come out the overall number 1 Pick of that years Draft. The GIANTS would have to lose all but 1 or 2 games that prior year or Trade up like Crazy in order to have a shot at him. Unless manziel gets a lot bigger and a lot more accurate as a passer he will not be the number 1 pick.

BlueJayC
02-11-2013, 02:04 PM
Nice to see "Mr. False Start's" take on the situation.

jomo
02-11-2013, 02:08 PM
You'd rather see teams buy championships year-in and year-out? That's what'd be pathetic.In my lifetime, no one has "bought" a Super Bowl championship. You must be confusing the NFL with some other pro sport.

Toadofsteel
02-11-2013, 02:27 PM
In my lifetime, no one has "bought" a Super Bowl championship. You must be confusing the NFL with some other pro sport.

He was quoting and arguing against someone who was in favor of removing the cap. But the cap is what makes football so interesting.

jomo
02-11-2013, 03:06 PM
He was quoting and arguing against someone who was in favor of removing the cap. But the cap is what makes football so interesting.I missed that, I miss alot lol. YES, the cap is what makes football so interesting.

Toadofsteel
02-11-2013, 03:11 PM
I missed that, I miss alot lol. YES, the cap is what makes football so interesting.

Not to mention it makes winning the super bowl all the more glorious... other teams can't accuse you of "buying championships" the way the pre-2004 Boston Red Sox claimed against the Yankees...