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View Full Version : Rotoworld's LB tiers..



Carter.525
02-11-2013, 02:07 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/42512/325/linebacker-tiers

Mlerman17
02-11-2013, 02:44 PM
ogletree in tier 3? Mauti in tier 2?

Carter.525
02-11-2013, 03:04 PM
ogletree in tier 3? Mauti in tier 2?

crazy huh.. It's like a Bleacher Report article..

juice33s
02-11-2013, 05:50 PM
It says the author works as a legal assistant....Basically he has zero qaulification/credibility as a talent evaluator

Redeyejedi
02-11-2013, 06:49 PM
It says the author works as a legal assistant....Basically he has zero qaulification/credibility as a talent evaluator thats my friend take it easy. his articles are pretty good usually. I think Ogletree is to low but his negatives are valid. Uploaded the Kentucky game today and its very mediocre. Ive shown his best games thus far i have more coming that arent as flattering

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 07:00 PM
thats my friend take it easy. his articles are pretty good usually. I think Ogletree is to low but his negatives are valid. Uploaded the Kentucky game today and its very mediocre. Ive shown his best games thus far i have more coming that arent as flattering You can do the same thing with just about every prospect in america, whats ur point?

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 07:02 PM
At least someone sees the value i do with Devonte Holloman.. Mocked em to us in the 4th-6th rd's a handful of times... He was a pretty big recruit and had a good career at S.Carolina.... Also as the article reads, can cover with past exp at S and really hit with his 240lb frame... Holloman is very underrated on these boards...

Redeyejedi
02-11-2013, 07:04 PM
You can do the same thing with just about every prospect in america, whats ur point? My point is his negatives are valid even if I do believe he is knocking him 2 much for the negatives.

Redeyejedi
02-11-2013, 07:07 PM
This happens with almost every prospect I watch a lot of. I start seeing the same things over and over and the negatives stick out a lot. Matt Barkley makes me want to vomit

juice33s
02-11-2013, 07:29 PM
thats my friend take it easy. his articles are pretty good usually. I think Ogletree is to low but his negatives are valid. Uploaded the Kentucky game today and its very mediocre. Ive shown his best games thus far i have more coming that arent as flattering
What this Kentucky game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDO08X6pBEU&playnext=1&list=PL54A70C0BA74D157A&feature=results_video ?

I barely even saw a negative play

TheEnigma
02-11-2013, 07:33 PM
Slip wrote this article haha.

Being serious though, Ogletree should be in a higher tier just based on his athletic potential alone.

Redeyejedi
02-11-2013, 08:23 PM
What this Kentucky game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDO08X6pBEU&playnext=1&list=PL54A70C0BA74D157A&feature=results_video ?

I barely even saw a negative playNo thats 2011 , I havent finished annotating 2012 yet. I uploaded didnt put the box on. I dont know which is the best way to do these videos ive been including as many snaps as possible but I think sometimes it may be misleading. I think some might not tell the gap assignment and assign blame to something or miss the reason entirely I put the play up like the hand usage or lack there of .

Redeyejedi
02-11-2013, 08:29 PM
Slip wrote this article haha.

Being serious though, Ogletree should be in a higher tier just based on his athletic potential alone. I agree he is 1st tier but EC writes some good articles on rotoworld he shouldnt be dismissed because he isnt a former scout. Most of the sites on the internet dont have real scouts.

PBTimmons
02-11-2013, 09:46 PM
Hate to say I told you guys so...lol.

Nah but really I agree with Arthur Brown being the best LB in the draft (excl. Jones). I disagree that there is THAT much of a difference between Brown and Ogletree, but Brown is a clear winner IMO. Both will have success because of athletic / 3 down ability.

I also agree with his assessment of Hodges. PSU fan here and I really think Hodges is small, soft and totally overrated. I heard from an insider that he barely played at 220 this year and is trying to bulk up fast for the combine.

born blue
02-11-2013, 10:02 PM
Any chance Greene could become a ILB? 6'1, 236.

juice33s
02-11-2013, 10:08 PM
Hate to say I told you guys so...lol.

Nah but really I agree with Arthur Brown being the best LB in the draft (excl. Jones). I disagree that there is THAT much of a difference between Brown and Ogletree, but Brown is a clear winner IMO. Both will have success because of athletic / 3 down ability.

I also agree with his assessment of Hodges. PSU fan here and I really think Hodges is small, soft and totally overrated. I heard from an insider that he barely played at 220 this year and is trying to bulk up fast for the combine.
You told us what? All I remember you saying is, "Giants should consider all options in pursuit of Te'o, he is rare".... (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?26631-Alec-Ogletree/page5)Regardless of what else you said, I don't think a secratary's opinion does very much to validate anything

Also, sorry to redeye for another dig at your boy, I'm sure he's a great guy and all, i just want to make sure people understand Vince Lombardi didn't exactly write this article

PBTimmons
02-11-2013, 10:25 PM
You told us what? All I remember you saying is, "Giants should consider all options in pursuit of Te'o, he is rare".... (http://boards.giants.com/showthread.php?26631-Alec-Ogletree/page5)Regardless of what else you said, I don't think a secratary's opinion does very much to validate anything

Also, sorry to redeye for another dig at your boy, I'm sure he's a great guy and all, i just want to make sure people understand Vince Lombardi didn't exactly write this article

I cant deny that I was high on Teo before the bowl and shortly thereafter. Check out my mock from about 20+ days ago and you'll see my pick of brown at 19th overall. Guy is quickly rising and I bet word gets out that teams are considering him in the 1st following the combine.

No need to be so damn serious anyways man, "told you so" was a little joke. Breathe!

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 10:40 PM
My point is his negatives are valid even if I do believe he is knocking him 2 much for the negatives. Everyone has negatives, u can't focus on the negatives of just the players at the positon u are seemingly debating against most of teh time, while rarley to never knocking the negatives on players u seem to covet, mostly DE prospects.. Ez Ansah has quite a few negatives as well, like rawness, and lack of pass rush skills..etc U did the same thing with Earl Thomas .. And hes a 2time pro bowler whos been sensational in the pros..

Ogletrees got everything u want, the upside, the production, the bodytype, the speed, the instincts.. How u find so many negatives with him is beyond me?

ELIte4MVP
02-11-2013, 10:40 PM
Hate to say I told you guys so...lol.

Nah but really I agree with Arthur Brown being the best LB in the draft (excl. Jones). I disagree that there is THAT much of a difference between Brown and Ogletree, but Brown is a clear winner IMO. Both will have success because of athletic / 3 down ability.

I also agree with his assessment of Hodges. PSU fan here and I really think Hodges is small, soft and totally overrated. I heard from an insider that he barely played at 220 this year and is trying to bulk up fast for the combine.


+1 I love brown. Just wish he was a little bigger. Kid jumps out on tape

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 10:43 PM
Slip wrote this article haha.

Being serious though, Ogletree should be in a higher tier just based on his athletic potential alone. Also, his production, how good his teams defense improved once he returned, and his playmaking ability.. Theres a reason the guy is mostly consensusly ranked in RD1 despite missing 4games this past season and playing a positon that most of the time isn't considered 1st rd quality, unless ur a special player...

nycsportzfan
02-11-2013, 10:44 PM
+1 I love brown. Just wish he was a little bigger. Kid jumps out on tape Not really.. He dosen't make enough plays, and isn't really a tackle machine either.. Add in the fact hes somewhat undersized, and i really don't get the hype? I liked em alot more till i really delved in more on em.. Khaseem Greene is a much better prospect in m opinon.. Seems more stout and NFL prototype look to em, as well as more productive and involved...

juice33s
02-11-2013, 10:46 PM
I cant deny that I was high on Teo before the bowl and shortly thereafter. Check out my mock from about 20+ days ago and you'll see my pick of brown at 19th overall. Guy is quickly rising and I bet word gets out that teams are considering him in the 1st following the combine.

No need to be so damn serious anyways man, "told you so" was a little joke. Breathe!
My bad bruh, I just enjoy a good old fashion fiery debate

PBTimmons
02-12-2013, 06:26 AM
My bad bruh, I just enjoy a good old fashion fiery debate

All good man. :D

I've been pretty tough on Ogletree. I get why a lot of people like him around here. Sometimes he flies around the field and makes a great play, but other times he seems to be very hesitant. I also think he keeps his pads too high and he could get abused in the run game at the next level.

All in all I don't think any one prospect offers everything, but Brown looks the part to me(he'll add 10lbs of muscle in no time). And I think we can all agree that JR has been posturing us in such a way that we'll get our flashy LB in the draft this year.

Redeyejedi
02-12-2013, 10:56 AM
Everyone has negatives, u can't focus on the negatives of just the players at the positon u are seemingly debating against most of teh time, while rarley to never knocking the negatives on players u seem to covet, mostly DE prospects.. Ez Ansah has quite a few negatives as well, like rawness, and lack of pass rush skills..etc U did the same thing with Earl Thomas .. And hes a 2time pro bowler whos been sensational in the pros..

Ogletrees got everything u want, the upside, the production, the bodytype, the speed, the instincts.. How u find so many negatives with him is beyond me?
My thing with Earl Thomas was systems that used safeties interchangeably I didnt think he would be as effective. I remember saying Earl Thomas in a Cover 1 heavy defense that lets him play deep would work very well for him. Now lets see where did Earl Thomas go, to a team that uses him exactly like that.

They all have weaknesses they are not infallible LB's just seem to be the topic all the time.. If I didnt point out weaknesses what kind of discussions would be available. You would be left with this guy is good and that guy is bad that would be mindless and boring.
The thing that bothers me with Ogletree and it happens a lot is if a lineman or TE is coming at him he will turn his back and retreat and let the guy get 6 extra yards before making a tackle. Now pointing this out doesnt make me dislike him as a prospect and its not a personnel attack. Now the positives with Ogletree I think weigh out over the negatives but a MLB that has trouble shedding is trouble.
Now even though he has this weakness it doesnt mean u cant overcome them. He can improve which is likely. There are also ways to minimize weaknesses and that is the coaches job. Just like Carrol minimizes Thomas weakness and emphasizing his positives by playing him Single high and letting his range and ball skills shape games

Redeyejedi
02-12-2013, 11:04 AM
Everyone has negatives, u can't focus on the negatives of just the players at the positon u are seemingly debating against most of teh time, while rarley to never knocking the negatives on players u seem to covet, mostly DE prospects.. Ez Ansah has quite a few negatives as well, like rawness, and lack of pass rush skills..etc U did the same thing with Earl Thomas .. And hes a 2time pro bowler whos been sensational in the pros..

Ogletrees got everything u want, the upside, the production, the bodytype, the speed, the instincts.. How u find so many negatives with him is beyond me?

Id said ANsah isnt flexible and is not an edge rusher that sounds like negatives to me. Mingo has many flaws. He has trouble translating speed to power, has problems finishing plays 2. U guys are just always talking about LB's on this board

Mlerman17
02-12-2013, 12:50 PM
My thing with Earl Thomas was systems that used safeties interchangeably I didnt think he would be as effective. I remember saying Earl Thomas in a Cover 1 heavy defense that lets him play deep would work very well for him. Now lets see where did Earl Thomas go, hmm to a team that uses him exactly like that.U get so attached to these players for some reason. They have weaknesses they are not infallible. If I didnt point out weaknesses what kind of discussions would be available. You would be left with this guy is good and that guy is bad that would be mindless and boring. The thing that bothers me with Ogletree and it happens a lot is if a lineman or TE is coming at him he will turn his back and retreat and let the guy get 6 extra yards before making a tackle. Now pointing this out doesnt make me dislike him as a prospect and its not a personnel attack. The negatives for Arthur Brown is that he cant make the plays that Alec Ogletree can. The positives with Ogletree "although I disagree with how instictual he is" I think weigh out over the negatives but a MLB that has trouble shedding is trouble. Now there are ways to minimize weaknesses and thats coaches jobs. Just like Carrol minimizes Thomas weakness and emphasizing his positives by playing him Single high and letting his range and ball skills shape gamesI completely agree with your ogletree assessment. He rarely attacks on run plays and gets washed out of the play. Instead of trying to she'd a block, he usually moves backward and tries to chase the rb from behind after the rb shoots through a open hole into the second level. This is a major flaw that really concerns me but his athletic ability makes me want the gmen to take a chance on him. I think the coaches can help him but he has to gain about 10 lbs IMO.

Redeyejedi
02-12-2013, 02:09 PM
I completely agree with your ogletree assessment. He rarely attacks on run plays and gets washed out of the play. Instead of trying to she'd a block, he usually moves backward and tries to chase the rb from behind after the rb shoots through a open hole into the second level. This is a major flaw that really concerns me but his athletic ability makes me want the gmen to take a chance on him. I think the coaches can help him but he has to gain about 10 lbs IMO. I think at worst with Ogletree u get a really good WLB which isnt really the the worst thing to have happen. If the Giants got Ogletree Id love to see them draft another monster DT to play on early downs in front of him. When u keep lineman off him he is destructive

Redeyejedi
02-12-2013, 07:53 PM
Not really.. He dosen't make enough plays, and isn't really a tackle machine either.. Add in the fact hes somewhat undersized, and i really don't get the hype? I liked em alot more till i really delved in more on em.. Khaseem Greene is a much better prospect in m opinon.. Seems more stout and NFL prototype look to em, as well as more productive and involved... Disagree with more stout Brown stacks and sheds much better than Greene. Straight Tackle numbers are meaningless.U cant compare straight numbers like that and say A is better than B it doesnt work. For example Rutgers as a team had 105 more tackles than KSU. Georgia had almost 240 more credited tackles a team. So many factors go into raw data like that . How about this Player A has 10 plays ran in his gap and makes 7 tackles misses 3. Player B has 4 plays at him and makes 4 tackles , Did player A play better than player B, 7-4 ? Im not even comparing Greene and Brown or 1 is better than the other just in general .

nycsportzfan
02-13-2013, 10:22 AM
I completely agree with your ogletree assessment. He rarely attacks on run plays and gets washed out of the play. Instead of trying to she'd a block, he usually moves backward and tries to chase the rb from behind after the rb shoots through a open hole into the second level. This is a major flaw that really concerns me but his athletic ability makes me want the gmen to take a chance on him. I think the coaches can help him but he has to gain about 10 lbs IMO.

I've seen him take on Runners in the hole many times.. He just so happens to have the ability to catch RB's from behind, which most MLB's simply can't do, so it might look that way to some.. Sure, he gets swallowed up by monster Olineman, just as most 230lb LB's do from time to time, but his overall upside, playmaking ability, athletic ability, possible versatility, past expierence at S(can only help), is way to much to pass up.. He also isn't affraid to lay a big hit, which i've seen em do on multiple occasions... Ogletree is a fantastic prospect!

nycsportzfan
02-13-2013, 10:29 AM
Disagree with more stout Brown stacks and sheds much better than Greene. Straight Tackle numbers are meaningless.U cant compare straight numbers like that and say A is better than B it doesnt work. For example Rutgers as a team had 105 more tackles than KSU. Georgia had almost 240 more credited tackles a team. So many factors go into raw data like that . How about this Player A has 10 plays ran in his gap and makes 7 tackles misses 3. Player B has 4 plays at him and makes 4 tackles , Did player A play better than player B, 7-4 ? Im not even comparing Greene and Brown or 1 is better than the other just in general . Its not just tackles at all.. I'm 100pct on getting playmakers on our defense, which is clearly what we lacked and have for the most part even during our championship runs, outside of some sack artists.. Guys who have a knack for making plays and football instincts are the way to go, every day of every wk..

U can go look at timed 40's and all this, but when u watch a guy like Khaseem Greene, u can just tell hes a diffrence maker.. Hes got the measurables as well... Basically hes really good at the game of football and is physical enough and big enough to continue that in the NFL... This team needs guys who have great instincts and playmaking ability.. Guys who will make a diffrence while not showing extreme weaknesses in other aspects of the game, which i don't think Greene really has.. Hes good enough against the run, and isn't gonna embaress u in pass coverege, and hes fast enough and strong enough to get to the QB on blitzes.. Thats the kinda players this team needs..

To be honest, i woulden't be mad i f the giants went Ogletree and Greene in the 1st 2rds... I think there gonna make that kinda impact on whos ever defense they play for...

Redeyejedi
02-13-2013, 11:58 AM
I've seen him take on Runners in the hole many times.. He just so happens to have the ability to catch RB's from behind, which most MLB's simply can't do, so it might look that way to some.. Sure, he gets swallowed up by monster Olineman, just as most 230lb LB's do from time to time, but his overall upside, playmaking ability, athletic ability, possible versatility, past expierence at S(can only help), is way to much to pass up.. He also isn't affraid to lay a big hit, which i've seen em do on multiple occasions... Ogletree is a fantastic prospect! Its not talking about taking on RB's its when a TE or OL comes at him in the hole he will retreat and chase instead of engaging and making the tackle.

Redeyejedi
02-13-2013, 12:01 PM
Its not just tackles at all.. I'm 100pct on getting playmakers on our defense, which is clearly what we lacked and have for the most part even during our championship runs, outside of some sack artists.. Guys who have a knack for making plays and football instincts are the way to go, every day of every wk..

U can go look at timed 40's and all this, but when u watch a guy like Khaseem Greene, u can just tell hes a diffrence maker.. Hes got the measurables as well... Basically hes really good at the game of football and is physical enough and big enough to continue that in the NFL... This team needs guys who have great instincts and playmaking ability.. Guys who will make a diffrence while not showing extreme weaknesses in other aspects of the game, which i don't think Greene really has.. Hes good enough against the run, and isn't gonna embaress u in pass coverege, and hes fast enough and strong enough to get to the QB on blitzes.. Thats the kinda players this team needs..

To be honest, i woulden't be mad i f the giants went Ogletree and Greene in the 1st 2rds... I think there gonna make that kinda impact on whos ever defense they play for... I like them both as prospects I just dont know how well Ogletree projects inside of a 4-3 right away. He could start as a WILL day 1

Mlerman17
02-13-2013, 01:54 PM
I like them both as prospects I just dont know how well Ogletree projects inside of a 4-3 right away. He could start as a WILL day 1The issue with that is Jwill will be useless. We need to get him and ogletree on the field at once which means that if we pick ogletree he must be able to play the position right away..I love ogletree but I am not sure he can step in and play MLB right away.

slipknottin
02-13-2013, 02:54 PM
The issue with that is Jwill will be useless. We need to get him and ogletree on the field at once which means that if we pick ogletree he must be able to play the position right away..I love ogletree but I am not sure he can step in and play MLB right away.

No it won't. there are two outside linebacker spots, plus that sub package role of big safety which is what J Will played last season.

But J Will at 230+ pounds could play some SAM. He already spends a lot of his time lining up against TEs