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View Full Version : DE position, a need ?



G-Men Surg.
02-13-2013, 07:41 PM
Seeing how Tuck's ability is declining, getting long in the tooth and a well know history of injuries is hard to believe the Giants are giving him a long term contract , heck they are letting him playout his contract, even if they wanted to give him an extension that's practically impossible right now. Question here could be is there a DE pass rusher worthy of spending a 1st or 2nd round this year and do the Giants envision resigning Tuck next year when his contract ends up?

BlueSabbath
02-13-2013, 07:43 PM
I really like Okafor. I just think he's a can't miss type of guy if he stays healthy.

G-Men Surg.
02-13-2013, 07:59 PM
I really like Okafor. I just think he's a can't miss type of guy if he stays healthy.
You feel he can be a JPP kind of player to spend the 1st round draft pick on him as BPA ?

Redeyejedi
02-13-2013, 08:05 PM
You feel he can be a JPP kind of player to spend the 1st round draft pick on him as BPA ? I dont think so. He wont be that good

Imgrate
02-13-2013, 08:20 PM
Pass rusher is our biggest need.

Carter.525
02-13-2013, 08:44 PM
I'd like a DE around pick #4 or #5.. I'll roll with JPP, Kiwi, Tuck, Ojomo & Tracy, really want to see Ojomo out there..

Mlerman17
02-13-2013, 09:18 PM
De isn't a need but a luxury. However it prob will turn into a need next year so if we take one we will be prepared with a player waiting in the wings. But taking one this year will not help us fill our needs at ol/lb/dt/cb

Redeyejedi
02-13-2013, 09:24 PM
Pass rusher is our biggest need. They need to add a pass rusher whether its a 3tech , a LB,DE doesnt matter. Osi is gone ,Tuck is on his last legs. U cant count on Ojomo to fill the Shoes of All Pro level players like that. Could he be Dave Tollefson? yes but your asking alot of him to be a 10 sack edge rusher.

drewz
02-13-2013, 09:48 PM
I wonder if it's better to get a Sheldon Richardson type of DT that'll eat up space on the inside and make life easier for Tuck and JPP

Broadway Blue
02-13-2013, 09:52 PM
Ezekiel Ansah is one player I would of like to have

G-Men Surg.
02-13-2013, 10:10 PM
De isn't a need but a luxury. However it prob will turn into a need next year so if we take one we will be prepared with a player waiting in the wings. But taking one this year will not help us fill our needs at ol/lb/dt/cb
A " luxury " in paper but if Tuck goes down this year or his nagging injuries come back then it would not be a luxury. And if someone is available and/or BPA is at reach then it would be an intelligent move. i don't think Tuck is coming back in 14, Nicks contract is up and probably Cruz too if tendered. That been said with Beatty and Boothe not signed OL is top priority IMO.

G-Men Surg.
02-13-2013, 10:15 PM
I wonder if it's better to get a Sheldon Richardson type of DT that'll eat up space on the inside and make life easier for Tuck and JPP
Very athletic player but I don't know if his " lack " of size is going to be a problem playing in the NFL. In the end if it all comes down to a DT in the 1st round I will jump in the air if big Jonhathan Hankins is available and gets drafted by the Giants.

gmen0820
02-13-2013, 11:35 PM
Any time it's not a strength, it's a need.

nycsportzfan
02-13-2013, 11:37 PM
They need to add a pass rusher whether its a 3tech , a LB,DE doesnt matter. Osi is gone ,Tuck is on his last legs. U cant count on Ojomo to fill the Shoes of All Pro level players like that. Could he be Dave Tollefson? yes but your asking alot of him to be a 10 sack edge rusher. Why not? 6ft 4in 270lbs, who prooved what kinda pass rusher he could possibly be with his preseason last yr.. Judging from his body type, looks to be in great shape.. I don't see why he cant be a 7-12 sack guy, given the reps...

G-Men Surg.
02-14-2013, 01:34 AM
Pass rusher is our biggest need.

I won"t go as far to say that DE is our biggest need bro, but will say it stopped being a strength.

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 07:18 AM
Why not? 6ft 4in 270lbs, who prooved what kinda pass rusher he could possibly be with his preseason last yr.. Judging from his body type, looks to be in great shape.. I don't see why he cant be a 7-12 sack guy, given the reps... Against 3rd teamers. The OT play is dreadful in that video .Not just sacks either but consistently force pressure. Physically he isnt very explosive. Nowhere near the level of burst of an elite edge rusher. He would have to improve leaps and bounds quickness wise over this off season.Its fine if they want to develop him but I think they are crazy if they are counting on him for Osi production. Im not talking low level Osi production because that isnt helpful. This team needs the pass rushers to get home

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 10:34 AM
Against 3rd teamers. The OT play is dreadful in that video .Not just sacks either but consistently force pressure. Physically he isnt very explosive. Nowhere near the level of burst of an elite edge rusher. He would have to improve leaps and bounds quickness wise over this off season.Its fine if they want to develop him but I think they are crazy if they are counting on him for Osi production. Im not talking low level Osi production because that isnt helpful. This team needs the pass rushers to get home Its a risk , but they see him in practice all the time, and i'm sure have a idea what to expect outta him and what he can or can't accomplish.. Regardless of the comp last preseason, those were guys right on the edge of NFL careers, and he was outter worldly... Hes got talent, and the size to help against the run as well.. Im interested in seeing him this yr...

Carter.525
02-14-2013, 10:39 AM
what about Dion Jordan.. could play strong side LB and move to DE on passing downs..

TCHOF
02-14-2013, 11:55 AM
They need to add a pass rusher whether its a 3tech , a LB,DE doesnt matter. Osi is gone ,Tuck is on his last legs. U cant count on Ojomo to fill the Shoes of All Pro level players like that. Could he be Dave Tollefson? yes but your asking alot of him to be a 10 sack edge rusher.

Perfectly put.

TCHOF
02-14-2013, 11:56 AM
Any time it's not a strength, it's a need.

Especially when our defensive philosophy depends on getting a consistent pass rush. No pass rush, no defense

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 12:04 PM
Its a risk , but they see him in practice all the time, and i'm sure have a idea what to expect outta him and what he can or can't accomplish.. Regardless of the comp last preseason, those were guys right on the edge of NFL careers, and he was outter worldly... Hes got talent, and the size to help against the run as well.. Im interested in seeing him this yr...I dont see other worldly at all. I see a player beating 3rd stringers with motor not physical talent. i dont see that translating well against 1st team Tackles. He has size yes but he really doesnt have many redeeming qualities as a pass rusher besides a motor. His first step is way below average for a weakside end.

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 01:12 PM
I dont see other worldly at all. I see a player beating 3rd stringers with motor not physical talent. i dont see that translating well against 1st team Tackles. He has size yes but he really doesnt have many redeeming qualities as a pass rusher besides a motor. His first step is way below average for a weakside end. Who were they? Obviously there guys ont eh cusp of making NFL rosters and were some of the best college players around, adn he did stick around the entire time,w hcih means alot of the scrubs as u say, had been cut all ready, right? I don't care how he gets to the qb, as long as he does.. He obviously did something right, he made the team and stuck around for a entire season and is still with us to this day..

slipknottin
02-14-2013, 01:49 PM
I'm still amused that 4 sacks for Ojomo means he's a superstar, but Broha got 3.5 sacks. And nobody talks about him at all.

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 02:17 PM
I'm still amused that 4 sacks for Ojomo means he's a superstar, but Broha got 3.5 sacks. And nobody talks about him at all. Slip do us see elite pass rushing ability? NYGiants Central has a great cut up on Youtube he is pretty slow off the line.

G-Men Surg.
02-14-2013, 02:18 PM
I'm still amused that 4 sacks for Ojomo means he's a superstar, but Broha got 3.5 sacks. And nobody talks about him at all.
I don't know that means Ojomo is a superstar but FO gave him a roster spot, they saw something in him and were afraid of losing him on the practice squad, at the least the Giants saw quality depth, don't know if he will turn out to be starter material but next year he has to be accountable for that roster spot.

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 02:24 PM
Who were they? Obviously there guys ont eh cusp of making NFL rosters and were some of the best college players around, adn he did stick around the entire time,w hcih means alot of the scrubs as u say, had been cut all ready, right? I don't care how he gets to the qb, as long as he does.. He obviously did something right, he made the team and stuck around for a entire season and is still with us to this day..
The thing is what if how he does it against 1 level of tackle wont work against elite tackles. I personally am much more interested in how its getting done. How translates , how is concrete and visible.

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 02:28 PM
I don't know that means Ojomo is a superstar but FO gave him a roster spot, they saw something in him and were afraid of losing him on the practice squad, at the least the Giants saw quality depth, don't know if he will turn out to be starter material but next year he has to be accountable for that roster spot. Im not doubting he can contribute in some way. Im just saying I dont see a player that is replacing Osi at his best

dannyboomboom1
02-14-2013, 02:35 PM
I too want to see what Ojomo can do and really like Tracey but considering uck is on his last legs and not sure how Kiwi translates anymore we need to get a DE in the first 3 picks that will be able tot start in a year or 2. Ansah, Okafor, Hunt.. these guys are whom we target.

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 02:57 PM
I don't know that means Ojomo is a superstar but FO gave him a roster spot, they saw something in him and were afraid of losing him on the practice squad, at the least the Giants saw quality depth, don't know if he will turn out to be starter material but next year he has to be accountable for that roster spot. I honestly almost laughed when i seen they brought up superstar..lol No ones calling a 2nd yr player a superstar..lol The guy has the measurables, motor, and strength to be a good solid DE in this league, and at least enough to grab a 3rd spot and be effective behind Tuck and JPP, and be able to leave KIWI out at SLB, and let us be able to take the prospect we want, instead of feeling the need to draft DE no matter what.. Hes showed enough in that preseason in my opinon to be given a shot.. I don't care how small the sample size, he showed legit ability..

People knock em for only showing his ability in preseason, like guys don't get there ticket to the NFL by doing the same thing... Cruz being one of them.. Thats the whole point of having these guys play, is to see if one of em was slipped by, by scouts.. He certainly showed hes got some skill, and hopefully with the coaching hes been getting, he'll be able to take that Motor and Size and turn it into more production for us..

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 02:59 PM
I too want to see what Ojomo can do and really like Tracey but considering uck is on his last legs and not sure how Kiwi translates anymore we need to get a DE in the first 3 picks that will be able tot start in a year or 2. Ansah, Okafor, Hunt.. these guys are whom we target. First 3picks, all day long! My point is this, its not the end of the world if we don't get a DE in the 1st rd, becasue we got someone whos developmental and has stuff u can't teach like Motor(u can't be taught this) and Size.. Definetly would be stupid to not give this kid a real look after what he accomplished last preseason, showing clear as day ability..

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 03:18 PM
I honestly almost laughed when i seen they brought up superstar..lol No ones calling a 2nd yr player a superstar..lol The guy has the measurables, motor, and strength to be a good solid DE in this league, and at least enough to grab a 3rd spot and be effective behind Tuck and JPP, and be able to leave KIWI out at SLB, and let us be able to take the prospect we want, instead of feeling the need to draft DE no matter what.. Hes showed enough in that preseason in my opinon to be given a shot.. I don't care how small the sample size, he showed legit ability..

People knock em for only showing his ability in preseason, like guys don't get there ticket to the NFL by doing the same thing... Cruz being one of them.. Thats the whole point of having these guys play, is to see if one of em was slipped by, by scouts.. He certainly showed hes got some skill, and hopefully with the coaching hes been getting, he'll be able to take that Motor and Size and turn it into more production for us..Cruz is an explosive athlete with quick twitch reflexes.Ojomo is heavy footed

G-Men Surg.
02-14-2013, 05:03 PM
I honestly almost laughed when i seen they brought up superstar..lol No ones calling a 2nd yr player a superstar..lol The guy has the measurables, motor, and strength to be a good solid DE in this league, and at least enough to grab a 3rd spot and be effective behind Tuck and JPP, and be able to leave KIWI out at SLB, and let us be able to take the prospect we want, instead of feeling the need to draft DE no matter what.. Hes showed enough in that preseason in my opinon to be given a shot.. I don't care how small the sample size, he showed legit ability..

People knock em for only showing his ability in preseason, like guys don't get there ticket to the NFL by doing the same thing... Cruz being one of them.. Thats the whole point of having these guys play, is to see if one of em was slipped by, by scouts.. He certainly showed hes got some skill, and hopefully with the coaching hes been getting, he'll be able to take that Motor and Size and turn it into more production for us..
That's the writing on the wall I'm seeing but I surely feel need aside that if a stud DE is sitting when time comes to pick at any round Reese is going to pull the trigger. That been said, like mention before the Giants didn't carried him in the roster last year for nothing , he will get a shot and at least FO expects him to bring quality depth.

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 06:25 PM
That's the writing on the wall I'm seeing but I surely feel need aside that if a stud DE is sitting when time comes to pick at any round Reese is going to pull the trigger. That been said, like mention before the Giants didn't carried him in the roster last year for nothing , he will get a shot and at least FO expects him to bring quality depth. Thats all im saying.. I'm fine with taking a DE in RD1, but i woulden't go forgetting about this guy yet..

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 06:27 PM
Cruz is an explosive athlete with quick twitch reflexes.Ojomo is heavy footed Cruz is fast, no doubt, but hes far from explosive.. Thats half the reason he ended up at UMASS and not a school like Miami, is becuase hes not explosive, and at first look, you would think just another WR.. But he excels after the catch, and is slippery WR that can make people miss, and then yes, hes fast enough to get where hes gotta go, as most guys his size are that play WR..

Imgrate
02-14-2013, 06:37 PM
You cannot rely on s guy like ojomo at the second most important position on the team.

Redeyejedi
02-14-2013, 10:44 PM
Cruz is fast, no doubt, but hes far from explosive.. Thats half the reason he ended up at UMASS and not a school like Miami, is becuase hes not explosive, and at first look, you would think just another WR.. But he excels after the catch, and is slippery WR that can make people miss, and then yes, hes fast enough to get where hes gotta go, as most guys his size are that play WR.. Does Cruz measure up physically to a 2nd round slot receiver like Steve Smith yes does Ojomo match up physically to 2nd rd weakside end like Umenyoria not even close. Ojomo has the initial burst of a DT and im not exaggerating. I hope the guy does well but I dont see how he will be anything more than Dave Tollefson

Piddy283
02-14-2013, 11:09 PM
Depending on how we look going into the draft, these guys look good on paper and could be available:
- Alec Ogletree- OLB/ILB (1st)
- Sylvester Williams- DT (2nd/3rd)
- Nico Johnson- OLB (3rd/4th)

nycsportzfan
02-14-2013, 11:19 PM
Does Cruz measure up physically to a 2nd round slot receiver like Steve Smith yes does Ojomo match up physically to 2nd rd weakside end like Umenyoria not even close. Ojomo has the initial burst of a DT and im not exaggerating. I hope the guy does well but I dont see how he will be anything more than Dave Tollefson To be honest, i think Dave Tollefson would of been a 6-10 sack a season guy had he not been behind some of the best pass rushers in giants history... I also think u exagerate his burst.. THe guy can get to the QB, and u give em reps, he'll do just that.. And most WR"s match up physically to each other, thats not much of a arguement there.. I mean,t heres guys who run sub 4.5's and have size that don't sniff playing time... Cruz simply knows how to play the game of football and he now has a legit QB throwing em the ball, so it shows.. U put Cruz on the browns, and no one knows who he is or cares..

Anyways, back to the subject at hand.. Ojomo showed me enough to give him a strong look, and i mean STRONG, this preseason... I think he'll fit just nice in a rotation, where hes on the field alot more then he was last yr.. I'd be shocked if he dosen't have at least 5-8sacks based on what i saw.. Dudes a beast!

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-14-2013, 11:48 PM
I am excited to see what Ojo can do,,he has to get a shot this year,right?

gmen0820
02-15-2013, 01:29 AM
To be honest, i think Dave Tollefson would of been a 6-10 sack a season guy had he not been behind some of the best pass rushers in giants history...Then you should be delighted to know that he's just been cut from a team where, for the vast majority of the year, had less sacks than JJ Watt (and only finished with 4.5 more).

Tolly was an average to below-average defensive end in his time here, and he proved he isn't a starter in this league. I'm glad this myth has been debunked.

G-Men Surg.
02-15-2013, 02:08 AM
Thats all im saying.. I'm fine with taking a DE in RD1, but i woulden't go forgetting about this guy yet..
With Reese every draft its always an adventure, this year ? no different IMHO, enjoy the ride !

Redeyejedi
02-15-2013, 07:21 AM
Then you should be delighted to know that he's just been cut from a team where, for the vast majority of the year, had less sacks than JJ Watt (and only finished with 4.5 more).

Tolly was an average to below-average defensive end in his time here, and he proved he isn't a starter in this league. I'm glad this myth has been debunked.
Yeah he was depth nothing more. Was never a starting quality player.

Redeyejedi
02-15-2013, 07:24 AM
To be honest, i think Dave Tollefson would of been a 6-10 sack a season guy had he not been behind some of the best pass rushers in giants history... I also think u exagerate his burst.. THe guy can get to the QB, and u give em reps, he'll do just that.. And most WR"s match up physically to each other, thats not much of a arguement there.. I mean,t heres guys who run sub 4.5's and have size that don't sniff playing time... Cruz simply knows how to play the game of football and he now has a legit QB throwing em the ball, so it shows.. U put Cruz on the browns, and no one knows who he is or cares..

Anyways, back to the subject at hand.. Ojomo showed me enough to give him a strong look, and i mean STRONG, this preseason... I think he'll fit just nice in a rotation, where hes on the field alot more then he was last yr.. I'd be shocked if he dosen't have at least 5-8sacks based on what i saw.. Dudes a beast!
If u think Tolly was was a quality starting end then Im just going to stop the conversation because its pointless. I think the only reason the guy was effective at all was because better players surrounded him.

Im not at all exaggerating I see DT's that are quicker from there stance


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6GvudiqTQ0

TCHOF
02-15-2013, 08:46 AM
Then you should be delighted to know that he's just been cut from a team where, for the vast majority of the year, had less sacks than JJ Watt (and only finished with 4.5 more).

Tolly was an average to below-average defensive end in his time here, and he proved he isn't a starter in this league. I'm glad this myth has been debunked.

+1

TCHOF
02-15-2013, 08:47 AM
I am excited to see what Ojo can do,,he has to get a shot this year,right?

If we go into this season planning for Ojomo to have any more than a back-up type role, our defense will be worse than last year.

Redeyejedi
02-15-2013, 08:53 AM
I was wondering since Ojomo is pretty strong at the POA if he could play inside some. His lack of quickness and speed wont be so glaring against Guards

G-Men Surg.
02-15-2013, 04:24 PM
I was wondering since Ojomo is pretty strong at the POA if he could play inside some. His lack of quickness and speed wont be so glaring against Guards
Take it for what it's worth,
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdWPKmB5R7wMAbm5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZ2drNGF qBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA0g0NjZfODc-/SIG=12f171449/EXP=1360988490/**http%3a//sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/de/adewale-ojomo/

Redeyejedi
02-15-2013, 04:52 PM
Take it for what it's worth,
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGdWPKmB5R7wMAbm5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZ2drNGF qBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA0g0NjZfODc-/SIG=12f171449/EXP=1360988490/**http%3a//sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/de/adewale-ojomo/ I didnt mean as a full time DT just in passing situations. I really disagree with almost everything that report says. Speed to get around the Edge? top end speed? he ran a 5.0 sec 40

G-Men Surg.
02-15-2013, 05:37 PM
I didnt mean as a full time DT just in passing situations. I really disagree with almost everything that report says. Speed to get around the Edge? top end speed? he ran a 5.0 sec 40
I do believe he was a project coming out of school but with some tools to work on. I don't agree with the report of him lacking speed around the edge but I did see him getting blown out of position a lot in the running game but I think and saw it more of a result of bad technic and his side to side movement was better than OK. Good holding off blocks in the zone-blocking scheme when I saw him play. I think he will be ready when his time comes to contribute.