PDA

View Full Version : Why would we draft a DEnd?



BigJ
02-15-2013, 10:22 PM
I hear some talk of the Giants should be looking for a dend in the first round because we lost Osi...... but we already have a a dend, anybody remember that kiwi is a dend and shouldnt be playing lb. we should just pixk up a real lb for once and just throw kiwi back down and use the first round pick on somthing we need like a corner back, offensive lineman, dtackle, or a real linebacker instead of taking our former first round draft pick who is a dend and making him a linebacker... Thoughts, feed back??

BigJ
02-15-2013, 10:24 PM
Feel like its a no brainer especially when he is a way better dend then linebacker

egyptian420
02-15-2013, 10:27 PM
The idea of not taking a DE is starting to really grow on me. If Kiwi goes back to DE or Tracy/Ojomo show us something, this might not really be a necessary move. DT, OL, CB, LB are all of more need it seems.

I'll admit I was on the Ansah bandwagon for a while but now I'm starting to think maybe we should take Richardson or Ogletree.

Redeyejedi
02-15-2013, 10:31 PM
Giants dont have any natural pass rushers thats why. Osi was the only edge rusher on the team. Tuck looks finished, Kiwi is solid Id like to see him get more snaps instead of Tuck at SDE. It doesnt have to be a DE The Giants just need another elite pass rusher whether that be a LB , 3 Tech, or DE. That pass rush has to get better and im not optimistic about Ojomo or Tracy contributing more than Tollefson

Flip Empty
02-15-2013, 10:31 PM
You can never have too many pass rushers.

BlessedinBlue22
02-15-2013, 10:33 PM
I like Kawaan Short Purdue..can pressure up the middle, what austin was supposed to do for us.

DE i like Quanterus Smith, guy performed against top competition even had DJ Fluker frustrated and he shoved him down after he batted down a Mc Carron Pass. If he impresses at the combine, passes his physicals that he can play..4th round for sure if he's still there..He's kinda like Jared Crick Nebraska, was a beast before he tore his pec..then fell to the 4th to the texans.

Carter.525
02-15-2013, 10:34 PM
The idea of not taking a DE is starting to really grow on me. If Kiwi goes back to DE or Tracy/Ojomo show us something, this might not really be a necessary move. DT, OL, CB, LB are all of more need it seems.

I'll admit I was on the Ansah bandwagon for a while but now I'm starting to think maybe we should take Richardson or Ogletree.

I really hope that either Ogletree or Richardson is there.. I can't see using a early pick on a DE

CowboysSuck
02-15-2013, 10:35 PM
Kiwi is not the answer. Although his grandfather was the first prime minister of Uganda, he's not the DE he was in '06. We must acquire at least 1 more DE...either in draft or FA

TheBookOfEli
02-15-2013, 10:37 PM
Because Tuck is a has been and Kiwi is not that great.

Redeyejedi
02-15-2013, 10:37 PM
I like Kawaan Short Purdue..can pressure up the middle, what austin was supposed to do for us.

DE i like Quanterus Smith, guy performed against top competition even had DJ Fluker frustrated and he shoved him down after he batted down a Mc Carron Pass. If he impresses at the combine, passes his physicals that he can play..4th round for sure if he's still there..He's kinda like Jared Crick Nebraska, was a beast before he tore his pec..then fell to the 4th to the texans.Q Smith tore his ACL dont know how eager Id be to draft him. Maponga from TCU ciuld be good value,Michael Buchanan illinois 2

egyptian420
02-15-2013, 10:40 PM
Kiwi is not the answer. He's not the DE he was in '06. We must acquire at least 1 more DE...either in draft or FAI'll tell you what he is: better that Tuck at this point; unless Tuck really improves his game. There's no way Kiwi could be worst than Osi on those outside runs either.

I just think out of Kiwi, Tracy, and Ojomo, someone will outperform Tuck and take that spot. That Should be sufficient enough along with JPP and a better DT like Richardson with Linval.

CowboysSuck
02-15-2013, 10:41 PM
Because Tuck is a has been and Kiwi is not that great.

truth hurts, but its the truth

Carter.525
02-15-2013, 10:43 PM
atleast there are bodies at DE.. who plays next to Joseph? the LBs.. haha and the corners can't stay healthy

CowboysSuck
02-15-2013, 10:44 PM
I'll tell you what he is: better that Tuck at this point; unless Tuck really improves his game. There's no way Kiwi could be worst than Osi on those outside runs either.

I just think out of Kiwi, Tracy, and Ojomo, someone will outperform Tuck and take that spot. That Should be sufficient enough along with JPP and a better DT like Richardson with Linval.

Kiwi? hes 30 and on the decline. Hes not a true DE because we already ****ed that up.

Tracy? Havent seen anything to suggest he is starter material

Ojomo? Ok, he had a good preseason. I was excited about him too, but he didnt play all year. What does that tell us?

Tuck? Hes had like 7 sacks in 2 years combined. Hes just a gap filler.

IMO we have only 1 true starting DE, and thats JPP.

Sooo...all those names you mentioned....wheres the permanent, producing starter opposite JPP? And what if someone gets hurt?

You are not thinking logically.

StrahanSoup92
02-15-2013, 10:44 PM
Lol I ask myself the same question almost every year, and then we pick another DE, lol. I guess its just up to whos left at our pick. Reese and Coughlin seem to stick to there boards, whoever is the best available on there charts, they pick, regardless of team needs. We stole JPP, so I trust Reese to get us the best guy available.

StrahanSoup92
02-15-2013, 10:46 PM
Kiwi? hes 30 and on the decline. Hes not a true DE because we already ****ed that up.

.

Agreed. Well never know what Kiwi could have been.

CowboysSuck
02-15-2013, 10:49 PM
Im actually kind of pissed that we did that to him. He was a top tier, all american DE in college for BC.

Of course he would accept the position change. He needs money to make a living too...just like you and I.

To be honest, we really screwed up. At this point Kiwi is sort of like a what-could-have-been more so than he is a what-could-be at DE.

egyptian420
02-15-2013, 10:52 PM
Kiwi? hes 30 and on the decline. Hes not a true DE because we already ****ed that up.

Tracy? Havent seen anything to suggest he is starter material

Ojomo? Ok, he had a good preseason. I was excited about him too, but he didnt play all year. What does that tell us?

Tuck? Hes had like 7 sacks in 2 years combined. Hes just a gap filler.

IMO we have only 1 true starting DE, and thats JPP.

Sooo...all those names you mentioned....wheres the permanent, producing starter opposite JPP? And what if someone gets hurt?

You are not thinking logically.
I'm thinking "next man up" is a better strategy for our DE situation than DT and LB (where if you want to talk unproven nobody's those 2 positions are goldmines)

CowboysSuck
02-15-2013, 10:53 PM
I'm thinking "next man up" is a better strategy for our DE situation than DT and LB (where if you want to talk unproven nobody's those 2 positions are goldmines)

I agree. We have our work cut out for us on defense this offseason.

All I'm saying is I dont think we can overlook DE.

CowboysSuck
02-15-2013, 10:54 PM
Did you guys know that Mathias Kiwanuka's grandfather was the first prime minister of Uganda?


I thought that was pretty cool....just found out from Wikipedia

SweetZombieJesus
02-15-2013, 11:21 PM
Wow, literally like 30 seconds ago the board is all over Tuck's back and suggesting he should retire.

The only sure deal we have at DE anymore is JPP. Ojomo and Tracy are unknown quantities, Tuck is capable of being great but can also disappear and his better days are behind him. Kiwi has been switched back and forth, what, 4-5 times? And he's not exactly young either.

Osi's out the door, 2003 draft pick. Tuck was selected in 2006 so we'd be lucky to get 2 more years out of him and his production has already declined drastically. Kiwi came in the 2007 draft.

So by law of averages Tuck and Kiwi are already done unless they prove otherwise and we can wring 2 or 3 more years of blood out of their declining stones. So yes, time to draft another DE if there is value.

BigJ
02-15-2013, 11:29 PM
.I just feel between JPP, tuck, and Kiwi we will be fine, def know he'll be way more effective at Dend ... The guy is our starting strongside backer and had 37 total tackles last year 27 solo and 10 assisted I mean come on

jomo
02-15-2013, 11:39 PM
Because that is what we do.

brad
02-15-2013, 11:47 PM
I subscribe to the theory that you can never have too many pass rushers... but I think the biggest problem with the pass rush is the inability to stop the run and the short quick passes that teams are using to negate whatever pass rush the D has. To fix that, you have to fix the DT and LB problems.

drewz
02-15-2013, 11:54 PM
I subscribe to the theory that you can never have too many pass rushers... but I think the biggest problem with the pass rush is the inability to stop the run and the short quick passes that teams are using to negate whatever pass rush the D has. To fix that, you have to fix the DT and LB problems.

It's a good thing DT is pretty deep this year

Buddy333
02-16-2013, 12:07 AM
Maybe because that's how they won two Super Bowls in the last 6 years?

RagTime Blue
02-16-2013, 12:38 AM
Kiwi was not a great NFL DE. He was moved to LB for a reason, and not because he was TOO effective at DE.

He's a versatile player, and we're lucky to have him, but if you think he's the future at DE, you're kidding yourself. He's a reliable fill-in at either LB or DE, and that's very important.

His career was SAVED, not ruined by putting him at LB.

egyptian420
02-16-2013, 01:03 AM
I subscribe to the theory that you can never have too many pass rushers... but I think the biggest problem with the pass rush is the inability to stop the run and the short quick passes that teams are using to negate whatever pass rush the D has. To fix that, you have to fix the DT and LB problems.This pretty much sums it up imo

BigJ
02-16-2013, 01:28 AM
Kiwi was not a great NFL DE. He was moved to LB for a reason, and not because he was TOO effective at DE.

He's a versatile player, and we're lucky to have him, but if you think he's the future at DE, you're kidding yourself. He's a reliable fill-in at either LB or DE, and that's very important.

His career was SAVED, not ruined by putting him at LB. buy he is more affective for us at end then LB, and if this is the case then we might as well him and cut him and save money because a starting strong aside linebacker shouldn't have 30 tackles

BigJ
02-16-2013, 01:34 AM
And every one keeps saying pass rushing dends... Jpp kills it from the right end position, he rushes the passer as good as anyone in the league... He should be on the right side all game i think he can handle the job

G-Men Surg.
02-16-2013, 03:13 AM
I don't think Reese will pass on a DE stud if one lands at 19 th. There's no freaking way ! Remember 2006 ? Osi, Strahan and Tuck on board and Reese picks Kiwi. This year we lose Osi and no one thinks Jerry can pull the trigger on a 1st round DE ? I'm just putting things in perspective and for sure know is possible.

G-Men Surg.
02-16-2013, 03:15 AM
Oh by the way this thread should be move .

nycsportzfan
02-16-2013, 08:24 AM
I'd like to sign Wallace Gilberry if we could, so we can afford to look in other direction in RD1, without worrying so much about it.. I am one who would like to see waht Ojomo could offer with more of a role on this team, as he was so darn impressive last preseason, but we certainly do need to add someone, if not early in the draft, mid to late, or a FA... Gilberry would do it for me, and a Gilbery, Tuck, JPP, Ojomo 4some, would be great..

Redeyejedi
02-16-2013, 08:43 AM
I don't think Reese will pass on a DE stud if one lands at 19 th. There's no freaking way ! Remember 2006 ? Osi, Strahan and Tuck on board and Reese picks Kiwi. This year we lose Osi and no one thinks Jerry can pull the trigger on a 1st round DE ? I'm just putting things in perspective and for sure know is possible. They are in a tough place to find snaps immediately. Im more worried about the following season when Tuck is a FA, then your left with no options. This season they may just hope Tuck/Kiwi can have a resurgence. The thing is people act like the Giants have used so many picks on DE's. The fact is they have picked 1 in the last 5 drafts "JPP" thats it.

TCHOF
02-16-2013, 08:45 AM
Giants dont have any natural pass rushers thats why. Osi was the only edge rusher on the team. Tuck looks finished, Kiwi is solid Id like to see him get more snaps instead of Tuck at SDE. It doesnt have to be a DE The Giants just need another elite pass rusher whether that be a LB , 3 Tech, or DE. That pass rush has to get better and im not optimistic about Ojomo or Tracy contributing more than Tollefson

+1

Our #1 priority on defense has to be to improve our pass rush.

teaneck
02-16-2013, 03:38 PM
Maponga from TCU could be great value. We could pick him up in the later rounds. Also as a side note, he has played against RGIII in college.

BigJ
02-16-2013, 06:24 PM
Yea I'm not opposed to getting help at dend but we have a dend already an if hes no help ay dend from what u guys say we might as well cut kiwi cause no starting line backer should have 30 tackles, Everyone says jpp had an off year but he still had 66 tackles from the line....

G-Men Surg.
02-17-2013, 01:30 PM
They are in a tough place to find snaps immediately. Im more worried about the following season when Tuck is a FA, then your left with no options. This season they may just hope Tuck/Kiwi can have a resurgence. The thing is people act like the Giants have used so many picks on DE's. The fact is they have picked 1 in the last 5 drafts "JPP" thats it.
That's a fact. I don't think Kiwi is the solution even more long term. I like how Kiwi has played SAM and the pass rushing ability he brings to the position. Next year could be a problem if Tuck goes trying to fill a gap with a " no miss mentality " , I think there's a high possibility the Giants try to built strenght at the position this year if theres a stud DE available. OT seems like a position of need if own FAs are not taken care of but if Beatty signs even if Boothe walks they will have more room to maneuver.

Captain Chaos
02-17-2013, 05:01 PM
I think it will be a best value pick, a DE or CB would be solid picks!

Redeyejedi
02-17-2013, 05:44 PM
I'd like to sign Wallace Gilberry if we could, so we can afford to look in other direction in RD1, without worrying so much about it.. I am one who would like to see waht Ojomo could offer with more of a role on this team, as he was so darn impressive last preseason, but we certainly do need to add someone, if not early in the draft, mid to late, or a FA... Gilberry would do it for me, and a Gilbery, Tuck, JPP, Ojomo 4some, would be great.. Gilberry is an interesting name his pressure numbers per snap are very impressive. Coughlin is familiar with him as he was signed by the Giants in 08 as UDFA. Its about the money im sure NFL teams are familiar with him

Sovereign
02-17-2013, 06:30 PM
We lost Osi, Tuck has done nothing for 2 years, and Kiwi hasn't had a sack the entire time he played on the line in 2012. How on earth do people think the Giants' defense which but he way is predicated on a pass rush completely fine at DE?

A linebacker won't fix that ffs. Actually if we get Mingo, Jarvis Jones or Dion Jordan then maybe, but that requires a smart DC like the one in Denver. Fewell is anything but that so it won't work.

BigJ
02-17-2013, 07:32 PM
So here's the thing, if he brings nothing to the dend position, he doesn't make any tackles from the linebacker position, and he definitely can't cover....y us he even on this team?? He doesn't offer us anything and he was a first round draft pic at end that doesn't play end for us and isn't even a good line backer... Why is he here??

Sovereign
02-17-2013, 10:56 PM
He hasn't had a chance to be a full time DE for two years now. If he shows nothing this year he's also a goner.