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Carter.525
02-18-2013, 07:25 PM
I think JR will address the DT spot in the first 2 rounds, how would you rank these DTs?

Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
Sharrif Floyd, Florida
Kawann Short, Purdue
Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State
Jesse Williams, Alabama
Sylvester Williams, North Carolina
Jonathan Jenkins, Georgia

juice33s
02-18-2013, 08:43 PM
I haven't watched them enough to give my personal opinion, but here's how the "Experts" rank them
Mayock-Floyd, Richardson, Sly williams, Short, Hankins
CBSsports- Richardson, Floyd, Jesse Williams, Hankins, Jenkins, Short, Sly
Scouts inc- Floyd, Richardson, Sly, Short, Hankins, Jenkins, Jesse
Kiper- Richardson, Floyd, Sly, Hankins, Jenkins

juice33s
02-18-2013, 08:44 PM
From the looks of it, if either Richardson or Floyd falls to us, they may meet the BPA/need criteria

G-Men Surg.
02-18-2013, 08:55 PM
I have not seen them all play but have seen my boy " Big Hank " Johnathan Hankins a lot and he is a rising star, very young coming out a year earlier, pure power breaking the pocket in way to the passer and excellent run stopper. He is a late 1st round prospect but will be BPA DT at 19 . He is in my opinion a Reese kind of DT and if the Giants were to draft a DT this is my guy.

Carter.525
02-18-2013, 09:13 PM
From the looks of it, if either Richardson or Floyd falls to us, they may meet the BPA/need criteria

agreed

G-Men Surg.
02-18-2013, 09:22 PM
I haven't watched them enough to give my personal opinion, but here's how the "Experts" rank them
Mayock-Floyd, Richardson, Sly williams, Short, Hankins
CBSsports- Richardson, Floyd, Jesse Williams, Hankins, Jenkins, Short, Sly
Scouts inc- Floyd, Richardson, Sly, Short, Hankins, Jenkins, Jesse
Kiper- Richardson, Floyd, Sly, Hankins, Jenkins
No Star Lotulelei on those ranks ?

juice33s
02-18-2013, 09:25 PM
No Star Lotulelei on those ranks ?
Carter didn't name him, but the overall consensus is that he's the top DT if not the top overall player...don't think we have any shot at him

Carter.525
02-18-2013, 09:26 PM
Carter didn't name him, but the overall consensus is that he's the top DT if not the top overall player...don't think we have any shot at him

yea.. that was my thinking

G-Men Surg.
02-18-2013, 09:28 PM
Carter didn't name him, but the overall consensus is that he's the top DT if not the top overall player...don't think we have any shot at him
The thing is that I've seen Floyd go up and Star go down in some draft mocks, seen him as low as 16. Realistically I don't think he will drop so far away but we can only dream.

Of course take it with a grain of salt,
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oGkkRr4yJRFD8Auy5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyZ2drNGF qBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA0g0NjZfODc-/SIG=13ro0e3lo/EXP=1361269739/**http%3a//www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/2/12/3981706/2013-nfl-draft-has-star-lotulelei-become-overrated

juice33s
02-18-2013, 09:31 PM
The thing is that I've seen Floyd go up and Star go down in some draft mocks, seen him as low as 16. Realistically I don't think he will drop so far away but we can only dream.
I really don't think we have a shot at Floyd either. I saw some "High ranking NFL executive" garuntee he goes top 10...Also Scot Pioli had him as his top ranked junior in the draft

G-Men Surg.
02-18-2013, 09:48 PM
I really don't think we have a shot at Floyd either. I saw some "High ranking NFL executive" garuntee he goes top 10...Also Scot Pioli had him as his top ranked junior in the draft
I saw tlhat too bro. Well I would be very happy if Big Hank Hankins drops all the way in the 2nd, that would be to good to pass up IMO.

myles2424
02-18-2013, 11:23 PM
Mmmaannnn, I got tore up awhile back when I said I thought Floyd was a animal & would be a nice pick at 19

BlessedinBlue22
02-18-2013, 11:59 PM
No way, Kawaan Short and Jordan Hill are better. I've seen Floyd's tape..Even in the senior bow short was getting pressure up the middle constantly beating the guard with swin moves. Jordan Hill is a sleeper too from penn state if any are available in the 2nd i'd jump for joy. lol

nycsportzfan
02-19-2013, 08:17 AM
I think JR will address the DT spot in the first 2 rounds, how would you rank these DTs?

Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
Sharrif Floyd, Florida
Kawann Short, Purdue
Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State
Jesse Williams, Alabama
Sylvester Williams, North Carolina
Jonathan Jenkins, Georgia





1. Kawaan Short DT Purdue- Highly underrated and i think will be a 1st rder come draft day.. Good measurables, penetrator, blocks kicks, productive career in college, good kid, instinctive...etc

2. Sheldon Richardson Mizzo

3. Jonathan Hankins Ohio St

4. Jesse Williams Bama

5. Sylvester Williams

6. Sharrif Floyd Fla

7. Jonathan Jenkins- overrated in my opinion...

nycsportzfan
02-19-2013, 08:19 AM
No way, Kawaan Short and Jordan Hill are better. I've seen Floyd's tape..Even in the senior bow short was getting pressure up the middle constantly beating the guard with swin moves. Jordan Hill is a sleeper too from penn state if any are available in the 2nd i'd jump for joy. lol I have no issue with floyd, but totally agree that Short is the better prospect and its almost comical that Floyd is consensus to most over Floyd.. Maybe Floyd is stronger, maybe not, but Short is better playmaker, penetrator, and ST ace then Floyd.. Floyd has not exceled to even remotley the way Short did, and Floyd had much better talent all around em as well... Short did his damage with next to nothing on the Dline this past season, prooving having Kerrigan around was not why he was good..

Redeyejedi
02-19-2013, 11:10 AM
I have no issue with floyd, but totally agree that Short is the better prospect and its almost comical that Floyd is consensus to most over Floyd.. Maybe Floyd is stronger, maybe not, but Short is better playmaker, penetrator, and ST ace then Floyd.. Floyd has not exceled to even remotley the way Short did, and Floyd had much better talent all around em as well... Short did his damage with next to nothing on the Dline this past season, prooving having Kerrigan around was not why he was good..I disagree he had nothing there will be a 2014 DE Ryan Russel i will be covering but yes Florida is better. Short is definitely not a better penetrator. Floyds quickness and ability to effect plays with his athleticism is much higher. I know u will point to his stats but when I look at both players in a vacuum. Who is quicker,better agility,better closing speed its Floyd. Also u have to remember that Floyd is only 20 while Short is 24. Im not saying Floyd is a perfect prospect he has holes. Id like to see him finish some more of the plays he impacts. He has to play lower it hurts him when trying to play the run

slipknottin
02-19-2013, 11:38 AM
Issue is you have different types of DTs on that list. So it would depend what you are looking for.

Jessie Williams for instance would be a great 0 or 1 tech, while Richardson is pure 3 tech.

It's like asking which is a better LB on a list with pass rushers and non pass rushers

Redeyejedi
02-19-2013, 12:08 PM
Issue is you have different types of DTs on that list. So it would depend what you are looking for.

Jessie Williams for instance would be a great 0 or 1 tech, while Richardson is pure 3 tech.

It's like asking which is a better LB on a list with pass rushers and non pass rushers It can be flipped upside down on what your looking for . If u want a 2 gap NT Sheldon Richardson isnt the guy, its Hankins. If u want a gap shooting 3 tech Richardson or Floyd are the best 2 . If u want to run a hybrid scheme Jessie Williams would fit well as he experience all over the place

slipknottin
02-19-2013, 12:15 PM
It can be flipped upside down on what your looking for . If u want a 2 gap NT Sheldon Richardson isnt the guy, its Hankins. If u want a gap shooting 3 tech Richardson or Floyd are the best 2 . If u want to run a hybrid scheme Jessie Williams would fit well as he experience all over the place

Exactly. The question should be who is the best fit for this team or this position

The giants, in my opinion, need a 3 tech the most. Linval is a very solid 1 tech.

Tampa 2 scheme historically needs a somewhat undersized DT who is a pure penetrator.

Sapp, Tommie Harris, Gerald McCoy, etc. someone in the 6'1-6'4 range and around 300 pounds.

Redeyejedi
02-19-2013, 12:24 PM
Exactly. The question should be who is the best fit for this team or this position

The giants, in my opinion, need a 3 tech the most. Linval is a very solid 1 tech.

Tampa 2 scheme historically needs a somewhat undersized DT who is a pure penetrator.

Sapp, Tommie Harris, Gerald McCoy, etc. someone in the 6'1-6'4 range and around 300 pounds. If they really want to run a Tampa 2 then I hope they go out and get the pieces to make it work. Realistically they need to upgrade 4 spots. 3 tech,WLB,MLB, another CB. They may be able to get by with Webster and Jwill but they would need to get a 3 tech and MLB without a doubt

Kruunch
02-19-2013, 02:21 PM
Well the pattern to date has been to run Joseph as a 2 or 3 tech and Canty (or Bernard/Kuhn) as a 1 or 2 tech.

If we're replacing Canty with this draft, presumably we'd go that route. However I'd say the only DT we'd definitely stay away from is a pure 0 tech (your 3-4 NT).

The differences between a 1, 2 and 3 tech DT are more about defensive alignment than player specialization (some notable historical exceptions aside).

I would guess that most NFL teams will see the following as pure 0 tech prospects:

1) Star Lotulelei (although he can probably play any DT position due to his athleticism)
2) Jesse Williams (has moved from DE to 0 tech ... doubt he goes back)
3) Jonathan Hankins (doesn't have the motor for a 3-tech)
4) John Jenkins (the DC who doesn't play this guy as a NT should be fired)

Sheldon Richardson and Shariff Floyd would be my top prospects in that list (assuming Star is off the board of course).

There's a better than even shot that both of those guys are off the boards with our first pick, so I'm thinking CB in the first and someone like Kwann Short in the second or Sylvester Williams in the 3rd.

Rawdog550
02-19-2013, 02:56 PM
Looking at the guys listed. I don't see Richardson falling to the Giants nor am I really high on him. He is undersized and does not have the power to get thru NFL sized Lineman. Floyd who is a stud I also don't think will make it to the Giants at 19. But he is a better DT than Richardson IMO. Then you are left with Williams,Sly,Jenkins,Short and Hankins.

I think the Giants need versatility in the interior of the D line. The only 2 guys who can bring that versatility is Jesse Williams and Johnathan Hankins. Now I am not real high on Hankins but I do believe he can become a force in the NFL. Williams I think could be perfect especially since the Giants were god awful at stopping the run at the point of attack which is the line. Jenkins from Georgia could work if the Giants can get him adapted to a 4-3 system. Short is a def possibility has the power good size and motor. Sly from North Carolina im not sold on.

BlessedinBlue22
02-19-2013, 03:37 PM
I disagree he had nothing there will be a 2014 DE Ryan Russel i will be covering but yes Florida is better. Short is definitely not a better penetrator. Floyds quickness and ability to effect plays with his athleticism is much higher. I know u will point to his stats but when I look at both players in a vacuum. Who is quicker,better agility,better closing speed its Floyd. Also u have to remember that Floyd is only 20 while Short is 24. Im not saying Floyd is a perfect prospect he has holes. Id like to see him finish some more of the plays he impacts. He has to play lower it hurts him when trying to play the run

I believe nyc sportz fan was right on. Look at the below film, Short has the same closing speed, i mean the guy stopped denard robinson one of the faster QB's in football. Age and Potential Floyd has that advantage, but Production "agility,better closing speed". I mean these guys are both monsters, but i beleive Floyd is even bigger so i doubt he is the more athletic of the two. Floyd to me is in the Sylvester Williams UNC class. Similar Size, technique with Floyds closing speed slightly better, but not much production to show for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C46Qtrta47g

BlessedinBlue22
02-19-2013, 04:03 PM
for those questioning Short's athleticism..check out this Amazing athletic dunk by a 300+ pound guy..kawaan can ball lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDOmUQhcTWo

Redeyejedi
02-19-2013, 04:04 PM
I believe nyc sportz fan was right on. Look at the below film, Short has the same closing speed, i mean the guy stopped denard robinson one of the faster QB's in football. Age and Potential Floyd has that advantage, but Production "agility,better closing speed". I mean these guys are both monsters, but i beleive Floyd is even bigger so i doubt he is the more athletic of the two. Floyd to me is in the Sylvester Williams UNC class. Similar Size, technique with Floyds closing speed slightly better, but not much production to show for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C46Qtrta47g

I think its pretty evident Floyd is more athletic. I dont even think thats debatable. Lets think about it if Short was more athletic than Floyd why wouldnt Short be the 1 being discussed in the Top 10. I think Shorts a good player. More stout against the run and has a well rounded game

Carter.525
02-19-2013, 07:11 PM
would Jesse Williams work with Linval Joseph..?

Captain Chaos
02-19-2013, 07:39 PM
There are plenty of decent DTs in FA I think he will go that way!

Redeyejedi
02-19-2013, 07:40 PM
would Jesse Williams work with Linval Joseph..? Wouldnt get much in terms of pass rush. Would be beastly against the run

Carter.525
02-19-2013, 07:46 PM
Wouldnt get much in terms of pass rush. Would be beastly against the run

I'm good with that.. need to add some beef in the middle

Kruunch
02-20-2013, 07:57 AM
There are plenty of decent DTs in FA I think he will go that way!

Why would a cap-strapped team that needs a DT bypass the position in a draft year that is deep in the position?

Rawdog550
02-20-2013, 10:37 AM
Wouldnt get much in terms of pass rush. Would be beastly against the run

A guy like Jesse Williams you would play as a 2 down DT to stop the run. Then you can bring in your Marvin Austin or Marcus Kuhn to get some kind of passrush hopefully going. Now Jesse Williams could become a decent Passrusher he has quickness and is fast. The really need Austin to improve and become something special in creating pressure. But stopping the Run IMO should be the #1 priority for the Giants this off season.

Kruunch
02-20-2013, 10:41 AM
Wouldnt get much in terms of pass rush. Would be beastly against the run

Would get abused by no-huddle teams.

Redeyejedi
02-20-2013, 12:10 PM
Would get abused by no-huddle teams. Maybe , Thats the thing when u get to specialized with roles

Kruunch
02-20-2013, 12:37 PM
You might , Thats the thing when u get to specialized with roles

Hmmm run stuffers that supplement the defensive line .... coulda sworn they invented those already.

Reese should look into inventing these. :D

Rawdog550
02-20-2013, 01:25 PM
Would get abused by no-huddle teams.

Giants got abused last year regardless no huddle or not. Bringing in a guy like Jesse Williams or another big run stuffer is only going to help not hurt our D line. Giants fans are so obsessed with Pass rushers that they forgot that teams still run the ball. Its a passing league but if you are a team who can't stop the run you are gonna get exposed and that is what happened to the Giants. Giants don't need more pass rushers. The Giants need personell who will help them shut down the run and that is where a Big DT out of college comes in. Marvin Austin isn't a run stop DT!!!! Linval Joseph can't do it alone on first and second down. He needs another big abled Body in there to plug that line and stop the run between the tackles. Giants can find that this year in the draft. I felt they should have addressed this issue last year in the draft. Run Defense was garbage but because they went and won the Superbowl the issue didnt get fixed. Now they missed the playoffs this year and got KILLED by the run its time to address the glaring need on Defense to STOP the run. You don't do it with Lb's in a 4-3 the D line is the first line of Defense against the run that is where you add the beef. Now in a 3-4 your LB's step up into the gaps and makes plays on the runners very different.

Kruunch
02-20-2013, 03:48 PM
Giants got abused last year regardless no huddle or not. Bringing in a guy like Jesse Williams or another big run stuffer is only going to help not hurt our D line. Giants fans are so obsessed with Pass rushers that they forgot that teams still run the ball. Its a passing league but if you are a team who can't stop the run you are gonna get exposed and that is what happened to the Giants. Giants don't need more pass rushers. The Giants need personell who will help them shut down the run and that is where a Big DT out of college comes in. Marvin Austin isn't a run stop DT!!!! Linval Joseph can't do it alone on first and second down. He needs another big abled Body in there to plug that line and stop the run between the tackles. Giants can find that this year in the draft. I felt they should have addressed this issue last year in the draft. Run Defense was garbage but because they went and won the Superbowl the issue didnt get fixed. Now they missed the playoffs this year and got KILLED by the run its time to address the glaring need on Defense to STOP the run. You don't do it with Lb's in a 4-3 the D line is the first line of Defense against the run that is where you add the beef. Now in a 3-4 your LB's step up into the gaps and makes plays on the runners very different.

First off ... paragraphs!

Having said that, yes I agree that the Giants need to look at their run defense, especially considering that all of the teams in our division have good/great run games (I'll assume the Eagles run game will be much improved next year considering the coaching change and McCoy).

However, that doesn't mean any wide body will do. Jesse Williams started as a DE, transitioned to a 3-tech and finally started soley as a 0-tech in 2012. That doesn't scream 4-3 DT to me. Could he play it? Yes. Would he do well ... that would remain to be seen. At this level, his athletic prowess might come down to earth and his size would make him a detriment against zone-block run teams (i.e. the Redskins). Keep in mind, I'm not saying Jesse Williams would be a poor pick ... just my initial concerns about him on the Giants.

Also, I think you neglect a big part of why our defense got gashed so much in the run game this year ... poor linebacker play. We could have the best DT in the draft and our run defense will still be poor if our LBers aren't improved this year (where do you think all of those big runs came from).

Finally, more teams ran the no-huddle more times in 2012 then any previous year in NFL history. It is a cause for personnel decision making.

Sovereign
02-20-2013, 04:19 PM
Star, Hankins, Richardson, Floyd, Sylvester, Jesse Williams, Jenkins.

Rawdog550
02-20-2013, 06:30 PM
Our LB's won't matter if we don't have DT's who can eat blocks and keep lineman off of them!!! You are right Williams did start off at DE and moved thru the Dline to the NT position. That just proves he can play any of the techniques. Now how he does in the NFL is anyones guess. None of these guys are a guarantee to be studs. But simply going out and drafting a LB isnt going to solve the problem either. Picking up a LB on FA would be a much better option rather than drafting one.

nycsportzfan
02-20-2013, 07:53 PM
I think its pretty evident Floyd is more athletic. I dont even think thats debatable. Lets think about it if Short was more athletic than Floyd why wouldnt Short be the 1 being discussed in the Top 10. I think Shorts a good player. More stout against the run and has a well rounded game Floyd was just called a 2nd rder like last month? did his athletic ability change in the past month? U start picking a bunch of unproductive guys because someone says hes more athletic, and ur gonna be picking busts, left and right... Short is a football player, adn he knows how to play the game of football, and ya, i'm sorry it shows up in his stats, thats not my fault, but usually, good football players that aren't specifaclly run stoppers usually do show up in the stat line.. Short was like the only guy on Purdues defense that teams truly had to worry about, and he still was highly productive..

I'l bet u right now, Kawaan Short ends up being a better , more productive player then Shariff Floyd... All though i'm still waiting for someone else to pay there debt for losing a bet to me..lol U can have ur unproductive short DT, as i'm taking the guy whos been productive for about 3straight yrs, and prooved he could do it with bigtime players on the DLIEN with him, and without..

myles2424
02-20-2013, 10:52 PM
Floyd was just called a 2nd rder like last month? did his athletic ability change in the past month? U start picking a bunch of unproductive guys because someone says hes more athletic, and ur gonna be picking busts, left and right... Short is a football player, adn he knows how to play the game of football, and ya, i'm sorry it shows up in his stats, thats not my fault, but usually, good football players that aren't specifaclly run stoppers usually do show up in the stat line.. Short was like the only guy on Purdues defense that teams truly had to worry about, and he still was highly productive..

I'l bet u right now, Kawaan Short ends up being a better , more productive player then Shariff Floyd... All though i'm still waiting for someone else to pay there debt for losing a bet to me..lol U can have ur unproductive short DT, as i'm taking the guy whos been productive for about 3straight yrs, and prooved he could do it with bigtime players on the DLIEN with him, and without..
Give me the guy has been a factor the past few years....Short....I do watch alot of UF games, & notice Floyd at times,but feel like he had a slim chance at the 1st until the louisville game.......
Mayock commented on Jenkins & Short during the senior bowl that them running out of gas during games wasnt a factor for him...And said they were rarely rotated in college & once they get to the pros & become part of a Dline rotation that wont be a issue...

juice33s
02-20-2013, 11:21 PM
Purdue DT Kawann Short will not work out at the Combine or the school's Pro Day on March 1 due to an injury.

NFL Draft legend Gil Brandt adds Short will have his own Pro Day on March 26. No details were given, but the injury is recent since Short just finished participating in Senior Bowl week. There's a lot to like to about Short, specifically his quick feet, but he tends to turn his energy off and on as he pleases.
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/0/nfl-draft-headlines/

slipknottin
02-21-2013, 12:19 PM
The more I watch Sheldon Richardson the more he's the guy I want in the first. He has an absolutely insane motor and moves better than any DT I've seen in years. He doesn't have a great anchor and his hands are inconsistent but that stuff is coachable.

If there is any DL prospect in this draft that reminds me of JPP it's Richardson

nycsportzfan
02-21-2013, 12:26 PM
Give me the guy has been a factor the past few years....Short....I do watch alot of UF games, & notice Floyd at times,but feel like he had a slim chance at the 1st until the louisville game.......
Mayock commented on Jenkins & Short during the senior bowl that them running out of gas during games wasnt a factor for him...And said they were rarely rotated in college & once they get to the pros & become part of a Dline rotation that wont be a issue... I agree fully.. The louisville game was definetly Floyds ticket to the top in my opinion, and he did very little outside of that.. Were always one game away from somebody who people have thought was a 2nd rder for god knows how long or 3rd rder..etc moving up a rd or 2.. I stick with my guys, and Kawaan Short is awesome..

nycsportzfan
02-21-2013, 12:28 PM
Purdue DT Kawann Short will not work out at the Combine or the school's Pro Day on March 1 due to an injury.

NFL Draft legend Gil Brandt adds Short will have his own Pro Day on March 26. No details were given, but the injury is recent since Short just finished participating in Senior Bowl week. There's a lot to like to about Short, specifically his quick feet, but he tends to turn his energy off and on as he pleases.
http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/cfb/0/nfl-draft-headlines/ Dang, this sucks.. Was really looking forward to seeing Kawaan out there.. Oh well, hes a stud, and if somebody is lucky enough to get him in the 2nd, i'm gonna be mad jealous...

Kruunch
02-21-2013, 02:27 PM
Dang, this sucks.. Was really looking forward to seeing Kawaan out there.. Oh well, hes a stud, and if somebody is lucky enough to get him in the 2nd, i'm gonna be mad jealous...

Actually that may be very good for us.

Kruunch
02-21-2013, 02:27 PM
The more I watch Sheldon Richardson the more he's the guy I want in the first. He has an absolutely insane motor and moves better than any DT I've seen in years. He doesn't have a great anchor and his hands are inconsistent but that stuff is coachable.

If there is any DL prospect in this draft that reminds me of JPP it's Richardson

I tend to agree (although I wouldn't compare him to JPP). I'd be very happy if he was our first pick this year.

nycsportzfan
02-21-2013, 07:31 PM
I tend to agree (although I wouldn't compare him to JPP). I'd be very happy if he was our first pick this year. Ya, i like Richardson and woudlen't mind either, but i tend to fall into Kawaan Short ground more so.. Sheldon Richardson reminds me alot of Mike Patterson when he came outta USC, and Kawaan Short reminds me of Fred Robbins, who i very much loved as a player...

Redeyejedi
02-23-2013, 08:45 AM
Dang, this sucks.. Was really looking forward to seeing Kawaan out there.. Oh well, hes a stud, and if somebody is lucky enough to get him in the 2nd, i'm gonna be mad jealous... At the weigh in he was down to 299 really wish he was working out would of loved to see how he looks at that weight.

G-Men Surg.
02-24-2013, 03:23 AM
The more I watch Sheldon Richardson the more he's the guy I want in the first. He has an absolutely insane motor and moves better than any DT I've seen in years. He doesn't have a great anchor and his hands are inconsistent but that stuff is coachable.

If there is any DL prospect in this draft that reminds me of JPP it's Richardson
That's precisely why I don't like him, he is not good at all against the run, you were kind about him not having a great anchor. Power like speed you can't teach.