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WiIdcat
02-23-2013, 05:02 PM
I have heard a lot of people say that Khaseem Greene and Arthur Brown are too small to play MLB. My question is why? Brown is 6' 241lbs and Greene is 6'1 242lbs. That is almost exactly the same size as Manti Teo who everyone agrees can and will play MLB.

Patrick Willis 6'1 242
Navorro Bowman 6' 242
etc.

So again, why are they "too small" to play MLB?

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-23-2013, 05:06 PM
I have heard a lot of people say that Khaseem Greene and Arthur Brown are too small to play MLB. My question is why? Brown is 6' 241lbs and Greene is 6'1 242lbs. That is almost exactly the same size as Manti Teo who everyone agrees can and will play MLB.

Patrick Willis 6'1 242
Navorro Bowman 6' 242
etc.

So again, why are they "too small" to play MLB?

I love arthur brown, but stand him next to willis and bowman and you will have your answer.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-23-2013, 05:08 PM
on another te'o note, reese says that the giants will consider him, or could that be code for we dont want to tip our hand on who we really like?

gabriel_1
02-23-2013, 05:10 PM
Well Willis and Bowman play in the 3-4, and I think a bigger LB fits a 4-3 better, but neither Brown nor Greene have the 49rs LB speed, so that takes away from them. I love Grene and Brown, I think the Giants should take a chance at both of them. In round 2 I think Brown will be gone, but if Greene is there I think is a no brainer, if we don't take a Lb in the first.

myles2424
02-23-2013, 05:10 PM
I love arthur brown, but stand him next to willis and bowman and you will have your answer.
Are we talking a body building competion or football? Bcuz if its about the looks then perhaps we should bring sintim back & aaron curry should be someone we should look into

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-23-2013, 05:11 PM
Well Willis and Bowman play in the 3-4, and I think a bigger LB fits a 4-3 better, but neither Brown nor Greene have the 49rs LB speed, so that takes away from them. I love Grene and Brown, I think the Giants should take a chance at both of them. In round 2 I think Brown will be gone, but if Greene is there I think is a no brainer, if we don't take a Lb in the first.

it has to be brown, he fits the giants system like a glove and he is ready to play.

WiIdcat
02-23-2013, 05:13 PM
Well Willis and Bowman play in the 3-4, and I think a bigger LB fits a 4-3 better, but neither Brown nor Greene have the 49rs LB speed, so that takes away from them. I love Grene and Brown, I think the Giants should take a chance at both of them. In round 2 I think Brown will be gone, but if Greene is there I think is a no brainer, if we don't take a Lb in the first.

Wouldn't it make sense to have bigger linebackers in a 3-4 since there are only 3 lineman in front of them vs being protected by 4 lineman in a 4-3? Not have the speed?? Bowman ran a 4.7 while Greene and Brown are both expected to run in the low 4.6s...

titwio
02-23-2013, 05:14 PM
Combine measurements.


Arthur Brown comes in at 6'0" flat and 244 lbs.


LB Alec Ogletree 6-2, 242 with 33 1/2-inch arms -

WiIdcat
02-23-2013, 05:15 PM
Are we talking a body building competion or football? Bcuz if its about the looks then perhaps we should bring sintim back & aaron curry should be someone we should look into

Yea idk what that really means. All three weigh 240 lbs and i fail to see an ounce of fat on Brown. So what's your point Eli?

titwio
02-23-2013, 05:19 PM
Measurements


Manti Te'o 6'1, 241 lbs


Kevin Minter 6'0 flat 246 lbs

Captain Chaos
02-23-2013, 05:31 PM
Nico Johnson 6 - 3 @ 245 ran a 4.59 somewhere... Would be a nice 2nd round pick...

Broadway Blue
02-23-2013, 05:51 PM
on another te'o note, reese says that the giants will consider him, or could that be code for we dont want to tip our hand on who we really like?

I honestly would not mind this pick at all

BlessedinBlue22
02-23-2013, 07:04 PM
The LB i feel would make the biggest impact would be Ogletree...athletic, speed, height. Just hoping Reese doesn't pull another late round LB, like we did with Zak De Ossie, (good pick but doesn't even play LB) and Jonny Goff and the Bryan Kehl's...If teo is there in the second and ogletree is gone, he may be a tempting pick..though i like the honeybadger matthieu!

Carter.525
02-23-2013, 07:11 PM
The LB i feel would make the biggest impact would be Ogletree...athletic, speed, height. Just hoping Reese doesn't pull another late round LB, like we did with Zak De Ossie, (good pick but doesn't even play LB) and Jonny Goff and the Bryan Kehl's...If teo is there in the second and ogletree is gone, he may be a tempting pick..though i like the honeybadger matthieu!

or he can take a guy like Sintim in the 2nd..... :mad:

G-Men Surg.
02-24-2013, 04:41 AM
Nico Johnson 6 - 3 @ 245 ran a 4.59 somewhere... Would be a nice 2nd round pick...
I have him in my mock draft in the 4th round.

Rat_bastich
02-24-2013, 04:59 AM
In a 4-3 your Mike is usually a stouter guy who eats up runs up the middle or can drop back into the middle to sit on routes, kind of like a pick and roll. They'll usually be heavier than your more athletic 3-4 linebackers who have to cover more ground since your outside linebackers are usually rushing the passer or moving forward for containment. Doesn't necessarily mean tall, but that is a bonus to get the hands up and bat down errant passes.

Redeyejedi
02-24-2013, 08:00 AM
Nico Johnson 6 - 3 @ 245 ran a 4.59 somewhere... Would be a nice 2nd round pick... This is where 40 times can not give accurate depiction. Nico Johnson is fast in a straight line its when he has to change directions there is an issue. He would still be an upgrade at MLB on the Giants though

penguinfarmer
02-24-2013, 08:05 AM
I'm actually surprised Arthur Brown made it to 6'. He's a bit stout so it makes him look even smaller on the field.

Redeyejedi
02-24-2013, 08:34 AM
In a 4-3 your Mike is usually a stouter guy who eats up runs up the middle or can drop back into the middle to sit on routes, kind of like a pick and roll. They'll usually be heavier than your more athletic 3-4 linebackers who have to cover more ground since your outside linebackers are usually rushing the passer or moving forward for containment. Doesn't necessarily mean tall, but that is a bonus to get the hands up and bat down errant passes. This gets back to what is the defensive vision for this team. There is a miss mash of pieces right now and some of the better players on the team got old very fast. This draft and FA needs to be done with an idea and they run with it.They have some very good Tampa 2 pieces and then others not so much.I think Blackburn and Rolle specifically are forcing this team to play more Cover 3 hence all the soft defense against the pass. Blackburn cant cover the ground to drop deep enough to get the deep middle and Rolle is just a bad safety. Giants need to get a MLB that can drop and a 3 tech that can be disruptive at the very minimum.

nycsportzfan
02-24-2013, 08:36 AM
This is where 40 times can not give accurate depiction. Nico Johnson is fast in a straight line its when he has to change directions there is an issue. He would still be an upgrade at MLB on the Giants though Eh.. Hes very similar player to Blackburn and to be honest, blackburn probably has better instincts , giving him better chance to make plays on the pass, which Johnson has shown basically zero ability.. I don't see it as much of a upgrade over Blackburn, and that is bad..

Giantslb66
02-24-2013, 10:27 AM
Ogletree weighed in at 242lbs yesterday! Alec @ 19!!!!!!!!

slipknottin
02-24-2013, 10:36 AM
Ogletree weighed in at 242lbs yesterday! Alec @ 19!!!!!!!!

With no off the field stuff, sure. With a couple serious red flags, no way.

G-Men Surg.
02-24-2013, 01:24 PM
Possibilities by round for my taste,
Give me ,
Te'o in the first and/or trade down in the first for Arthur Brown.
Khaseeme Greene in the second
Sio or Nico Johnson in the 3 rd.
Kiko Johnson or Jon Major in the 4th.
Past the 4th round either you keep your hopes high on a ILB project ( lots of those these past years ) or hope Reese hits the jack pot on a ILB gem.

ozzie0075
02-24-2013, 01:25 PM
Here is a write up that cbssports.com did on Olgetree and other potential bust prospects: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21755464/combine-judgements-georgias-jones-just-one-among-group-of-boomorbust-prospects

Jones isn't the only Georgia linebacker under the microscope. Alec Ogletree is another. There are plenty of teams out there that can use someone of his ability, but it's not his ability that's an issue. It's his maturity.

"The guy's an immature idiot," said one player personnel director.

That's one way of putting it. Another is that he's a character concern, with last week's DUI arrest the latest blip on the radar. It wasn't his only arrest; only his most recent, and combine that with a four-game suspension for a positive drug test, and you have a risk some people may not be willing to take.

"I'm a good person," Ogletree told reporters. "Everybody makes mistakes. I feel bad about the situation, but I'm learning from it and I'm moving forward."

He may not be moving forward in the draft. Ogletree is a potential first-round pick who is explosive, strong, quick, and instinctive, and he could be a high first-round choice. But his recent arrest will back off potential suitors, with one scout telling me it could cause his team to pass on the guy.

"I don't know what it's going to do (to my draft status)," said Ogletree. "I feel bad about it. I'm really sorry about it, but I just have to move forward and take whatever I get."

G-Men Surg.
02-24-2013, 05:22 PM
Here is a write up that cbssports.com did on Olgetree and other potential bust prospects: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/21755464/combine-judgements-georgias-jones-just-one-among-group-of-boomorbust-prospects

Jones isn't the only Georgia linebacker under the microscope. Alec Ogletree is another. There are plenty of teams out there that can use someone of his ability, but it's not his ability that's an issue. It's his maturity.

"The guy's an immature idiot," said one player personnel director.

That's one way of putting it. Another is that he's a character concern, with last week's DUI arrest the latest blip on the radar. It wasn't his only arrest; only his most recent, and combine that with a four-game suspension for a positive drug test, and you have a risk some people may not be willing to take.

"I'm a good person," Ogletree told reporters. "Everybody makes mistakes. I feel bad about the situation, but I'm learning from it and I'm moving forward."

He may not be moving forward in the draft. Ogletree is a potential first-round pick who is explosive, strong, quick, and instinctive, and he could be a high first-round choice. But his recent arrest will back off potential suitors, with one scout telling me it could cause his team to pass on the guy.

"I don't know what it's going to do (to my draft status)," said Ogletree. "I feel bad about it. I'm really sorry about it, but I just have to move forward and take whatever I get."
I think he still has a very good chance to go late 1st if not he's not getting past the 2nd.

myles2424
02-24-2013, 06:46 PM
Possibilities by round for my taste,
Give me ,
Te'o in the first and/or trade down in the first for Arthur Brown.
Khaseeme Greene in the second
Sio or Nico Johnson in the 3 rd.
Kiko Johnson or Jon Major in the 4th.
Past the 4th round either you keep your hopes high on a ILB project ( lots of those these past years ) or hope Reese hits the jack pot on a ILB gem.

Honestly imo, I dont even want a LB if its not brown, greene or ogletree....I feel we'll end up with another mid-late round guy thatll take up space

G-Men Surg.
02-24-2013, 07:28 PM
Honestly imo, I dont even want a LB if its not brown, greene or ogletree....I feel we'll end up with another mid-late round guy thatll take up space
I don't have a feel right now if Reese and Co. are willing to take a LB with that 19 th pick. But Brown could be a good need/value pick at the end of the first because I don't think he will make it all the way to 49 . Greene at 49 ? Very happy with that scenario if it goes down. Ogletree? It's a mystery Reese has to solve weighting his value vs. Risk at any round .

nycsportzfan
02-24-2013, 07:34 PM
It really was stupid what the guy did.. Moronic is moer like it... How can u be that stupid when u all ready have red flags at this time of yr? Hes been my dream pick along with Ez Ansah(before ansah leapfrogged up), and i have a hard time thinking its the right move becaue of it.. Then i watch the tape, and without really knowing the guy, i find my greedy side wanting to take em.. Hes ridiculously nasty!

BigJ
02-24-2013, 08:29 PM
Reese will just over look any decent linebacker, and draft another bust like he does every single year

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-24-2013, 10:57 PM
so where does arthur brown, jr. go now? apparently he has a bum shoulder.

myles2424
02-25-2013, 12:23 AM
Reese will just over look any decent linebacker, and draft another bust like he does every single year
I'd bet on this before betting on us actually trying to improve LB

NYCDBS
02-25-2013, 10:14 PM
Tis kid Cornelius Washington from Georgia is lighting it up at the combine. Anyone seen film on him? Is his on field production as good as his combine stats?

slipknottin
02-25-2013, 10:17 PM
Tis kid Cornelius Washington from Georgia is lighting it up at the combine. Anyone seen film on him? Is his on field production as good as his combine stats?

He had awful production this year. But their are rumors he bulked up a ton for this season to play inside more and lost a lot of his flexibility because of that. Much more productive in 2011

Redeyejedi
02-26-2013, 11:21 AM
He had awful production this year. But their are rumors he bulked up a ton for this season to play inside more and lost a lot of his flexibility because of that. Much more productive in 2011 I guess I will watch 2011 tape never saw anything special on his 2012 stuff

TCHOF
02-26-2013, 11:26 AM
Reese will just over look any decent linebacker, and draft another bust like he does every single year

What an incredibly silly statement.

Duckdownman
02-27-2013, 08:49 AM
I have heard a lot of people say that Khaseem Greene and Arthur Brown are too small to play MLB. My question is why? Brown is 6' 241lbs and Greene is 6'1 242lbs. That is almost exactly the same size as Manti Teo who everyone agrees can and will play MLB.

Patrick Willis 6'1 242
Navorro Bowman 6' 242
etc.

So again, why are they "too small" to play MLB?

I get your point but you are simply using measurements. Physically look at the players you mentioned....similar measurements but they don't all look similar do they? Height/weight doesn't tell how your body is built. Some people carry weight much different than others. Take a MLB for example. You don't want a guy big up top with thin legs. Someone with the same height/weight can be built more stout, thick legs to hold the point of attack.

Carter.525
02-27-2013, 08:58 AM
Greene in the 2nd and I'll be thrilled..

slipknottin
02-27-2013, 09:51 AM
I get your point but you are simply using measurements. Physically look at the players you mentioned....similar measurements but they don't all look similar do they? Height/weight doesn't tell how your body is built. Some people carry weight much different than others. Take a MLB for example. You don't want a guy big up top with thin legs. Someone with the same height/weight can be built more stout, thick legs to hold the point of attack.

I think they all look very similar to be honest. brown is built every bit as well as Bowman. And may be more athletic.

nycsportzfan
02-27-2013, 10:02 AM
Theres alot of backers i woulden't mind.. Damontre Moore at SLB would be great value, and Sio Moore, Khaseeme Greene, and Gerald Hodges all excite me as well...

Imgrate
02-27-2013, 10:19 AM
I don't want a lber in the first 3 rounds if he isn't capable of rushing the passer.

slipknottin
02-27-2013, 10:29 AM
I don't want a lber in the first 3 rounds if he isn't capable of rushing the passer.

That's just dumb

Imgrate
02-27-2013, 10:32 AM
That's just dumbIf you say so.

slipknottin
02-27-2013, 12:51 PM
If you say so.i understand the no non-pass rush guys in the top 10 or even top 20. But to say they have no value in the first three rounds is completely false.

giantsfan420
02-27-2013, 01:31 PM
That's just dumb

i dunno i kind of agree. with the crop of lbs in this class, if he cant get after the qb or at the least displayed measurables at the combine that suggest he an be coahed to get after the qb, then i wouldnt want him in the first 3 rds either...dunno how thats controversial. i can understand a diff opinion if u feel otherwise, just personal preference i guess

AGiantDynasty
02-27-2013, 05:24 PM
I would love Greene. Even at OLB this guys will be a monster. He just has all the tools and instinct to make a splash in this league... Pun intended.

Imgrate
02-27-2013, 05:33 PM
i understand the no non-pass rush guys in the top 10 or even top 20. But to say they have no value in the first three rounds is completely false.Its more that I believe there will be a player of similar talent level at pass rusher, lde, 3tech or corner available in the first 3 rounds.

slipknottin
02-27-2013, 05:39 PM
Its more that I believe there will be a player of similar talent level at pass rusher, lde, 3tech or corner available in the first 3 rounds.

I don't think anyone outside of Millner is as good at CB as Brown is at LB... But to each their own

AGiantDynasty
02-27-2013, 05:41 PM
I'm with Slip. We dont rush our LBers enough to warrant a statement like "No LB in the first 3 rounds unless he is a pass rusher". 4-3 LBers have many responsibilities, not just pass rushing.

Imgrate
02-27-2013, 05:44 PM
I don't think anyone outside of Millner is as good at CB as Brown is at LB... But to each their ownThat's just cb though.

slipknottin
02-27-2013, 05:46 PM
That's just cb though.

I don't see any DTs in round two that would be better than Brown either. And DE sort of dries up in the second, then starts again in the third.

I understand the value of pass rushers and cover guys, but saying LB has no value in the first three rounds is clearly incorrect. Every defense that is quality has early round non pass rushing linebackers on it.

Imgrate
02-27-2013, 05:49 PM
I'm with Slip. We dont rush our LBers enough to warrant a statement like "No LB in the first 3 rounds unless he is a pass rusher". 4-3 LBers have many responsibilities, not just pass rushing.I'm talking a guy like mingo that would be your starting sam, and then stick his hand in the dirt pass plays. Not a mlb that Is a good blitzer. We 100% have to add a pass rusher this off-season.

TheEnigma
02-27-2013, 05:49 PM
I don't see any DTs in round two that would be better than Brown either. And DE sort of dries up in the second, then starts again in the third.

I understand the value of pass rushers and cover guys, but saying LB has no value in the first three rounds is clearly incorrect. Every defense that is quality has early round non pass rushing linebackers on it.

You think Brown would make it to the second? With Ogletree's "excellent" off field work, I'd imagine majority of the teams easily have Brown as the top ILB now. Can't see him escaping the top 25 personally.

slipknottin
02-27-2013, 05:56 PM
I'm talking a guy like mingo that would be your starting sam, and then stick his hand in the dirt pass plays. Not a mlb that Is a good blitzer. We 100% have to add a pass rusher this off-season.

They have to add both. Pass rush will never get home when the linebackers are not capable of covering any slant routes.

BlueSanta
02-27-2013, 06:13 PM
They have to add both. Pass rush will never get home when the linebackers are not capable of covering any slant routes.

Yep.

And if we cannot stop the run, like we couldnt vs the skins, we can expect to finish in the bottom of our division again. The Eagles under Kelly will run, and we already know the Skins will run. With all due respect and love to chase for some of this great moments as a Giant, he was pretty bad vs the run at times last year,.

nycsportzfan
02-28-2013, 06:48 AM
I would love Greene. Even at OLB this guys will be a monster. He just has all the tools and instinct to make a splash in this league... Pun intended.

Mayock loves em 2.. THe guys as instinctive a playmaker as there is out there, and can blitz, cover, and defend the run.. I see star when i see Greene.. Sio Moore is a guy i think would offer a ton of versatility for us, and is a beast rushing hte passer but also makes plays against the pass.. Hes a true all around LB with great measurables and off the chart combine results...

Down at the One
02-28-2013, 01:48 PM
We desperately need a middle linebacker who can bring an added toughness to our D. How about Alec Ogletree? Get the guy out of Georgia and I think his off field troubles will be history.http://www.downattheone.com/NFL/NFL-Draft-Coverage-NFC-East

Toadofsteel
02-28-2013, 02:01 PM
We desperately need a middle linebacker who can bring an added toughness to our D. How about Alec Ogletree? Get the guy out of Georgia and I think his off field troubles will be history.http://www.downattheone.com/NFL/NFL-Draft-Coverage-NFC-East

The Dez Bryant of linebackers? no thanks