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View Full Version : this class of rbs makes me thankful for wilson



giantsfan420
02-24-2013, 03:05 PM
havent seen a rb yet match wilsons speed/explosion/quickness/athleticism...perhaps that whole "run on the quality rb's" comment he made last year had some foresight into this years draft class...just saying its prob more than coincidence we got a rb capable of starting and doing big things when we did when factoring in this years draft class...Montae Ball could be great but Id be bummed if we entered next season with bradshaw and ball or something...

Broadway Blue
02-24-2013, 03:26 PM
I thought Knile Davis ran pretty well

miked1958
02-24-2013, 04:20 PM
You never know. There's always sleepers. I don't think anyone thought Alfred Morris of the Skins would be as good as he was as well as Doug Martin. They were both thought to be good but not the kind of numbers they put up

miked1958
02-24-2013, 04:21 PM
However if you are the feature neck getting 80/90 percent of the carries then you can put up numbers like that. With the giants system you'd never see that

Redeyejedi
02-24-2013, 04:36 PM
speed/explosion/quickness/athleticism doesnt mean a thing if U cant follow blocks and have poor instincts. Some of the most productive runners in the NFL ran a 4.6

tonyt830
02-24-2013, 04:56 PM
speed/explosion/quickness/athleticism doesnt mean a thing if U cant follow blocks and have poor instincts. Some of the most productive runners in the NFL ran a 4.6as I said in another thread, I would be all for sacrificing some long speed, if that meant the RB had better vision and balance. And of course, like you said redeye, being able to read/follow blocks and insticts is very important as well. Even Chris Johnson does not bust a big run every time he touches the ball.

quan the don
02-24-2013, 05:07 PM
speed/explosion/quickness/athleticism doesnt mean a thing if U cant follow blocks and have poor instincts. Some of the most productive runners in the NFL ran a 4.6
I get what your saying but a 4.6, might be a little stretch.

giantsfan420
02-24-2013, 05:22 PM
speed/explosion/quickness/athleticism doesnt mean a thing if U cant follow blocks and have poor instincts. Some of the most productive runners in the NFL ran a 4.6thats true but irrelevant here imo bc imo wilson follows his blocks and has good instincts. those werent the issues with his lack of playing time imo, that was due to pass protection and perhaps a strong loyalty to veteran experience...

myles2424
02-24-2013, 05:26 PM
Andre Brown has a long injury past & scott we dont know what were getting....I hope we do our RB homework & are able to grab a steal in 5th-7th....
Small school under the radar guy,guy that slides due to minor off field stuff like we had with bradshaw,etc....

Toadofsteel
02-24-2013, 05:50 PM
You never know. There's always sleepers. I don't think anyone thought Alfred Morris of the Skins would be as good as he was as well as Doug Martin. They were both thought to be good but not the kind of numbers they put up

The skins are a system with that zone blocking scheme where you can plug and play a bull type RB and have success... I bet 2012 Jacobs would have excelled in that system...

nycsportzfan
02-24-2013, 05:54 PM
It wouldent shock me if there is 5-10 backs in this draft that end up starting. To be honest, Marcus Lattimore could end up being one of the best backs to come out since Adrian Peterson if he comes back from his injury all right which i think he will.. Knile Davis , Christine Michael, Giovanni Bernard, Mike Gilislee, Jonathan Franklin, Joseph Randle, Montee Ball, Le'veon Bell, all have a chance to make a big impact in the NFL..


Its not as if its a terribly weak RB class by any means.. Plenty of Starting potential, and when u start, u have a chance to be a bigtime NFL back...

G-Men Surg.
02-24-2013, 06:45 PM
Andre Brown has a long injury past & scott we dont know what were getting....I hope we do our RB homework & are able to grab a steal in 5th-7th....
Small school under the radar guy,guy that slides due to minor off field stuff like we had with bradshaw,etc....
Better yet get an UDRFA, let see if Reese can work his magic again. I still think there are many holes to fill in other places to " waste " picks. That been said if BPA holds true you never know.

Redeyejedi
02-24-2013, 07:30 PM
The skins are a system with that zone blocking scheme where you can plug and play a bull type RB and have success... I bet 2012 Jacobs would have excelled in that system...Ron Dayne averaged 5YPC is a zone blocking scheme

Redeyejedi
02-24-2013, 07:33 PM
It wouldent shock me if there is 5-10 backs in this draft that end up starting. To be honest, Marcus Lattimore could end up being one of the best backs to come out since Adrian Peterson if he comes back from his injury all right which i think he will.. Knile Davis , Christine Michael, Giovanni Bernard, Mike Gilislee, Jonathan Franklin, Joseph Randle, Montee Ball, Le'veon Bell, all have a chance to make a big impact in the NFL..


Its not as if its a terribly weak RB class by any means.. Plenty of Starting potential, and when u start, u have a chance to be a bigtime NFL back... Im all for taking a RB 3rd day. RB's are 1 of the better positions to pick late value wise. I still think the team needs 1 more guy

giantsfan420
02-24-2013, 08:11 PM
It wouldent shock me if there is 5-10 backs in this draft that end up starting. To be honest, Marcus Lattimore could end up being one of the best backs to come out since Adrian Peterson if he comes back from his injury all right which i think he will.. Knile Davis , Christine Michael, Giovanni Bernard, Mike Gilislee, Jonathan Franklin, Joseph Randle, Montee Ball, Le'veon Bell, all have a chance to make a big impact in the NFL..


Its not as if its a terribly weak RB class by any means.. Plenty of Starting potential, and when u start, u have a chance to be a bigtime NFL back...i didnt and dont see a rb who has wilsons skill set/ceiling let alone the other rbs taken before him in rd 1. rbs are a dime a dozen position so it wouldnt surprise me at all if some rbs from this class end up starting somewhere someday, i just dont see any of the rbs in this class coming close to the class last yr, and i wonder if jr, in scouting players and stuff, felt that this class would be weak as well and factored that into deciding to take wilson last yr and not chance it this one...food for thought is all

nycsportzfan
02-24-2013, 08:15 PM
i didnt and dont see a rb who has wilsons skill set/ceiling let alone the other rbs taken before him in rd 1. rbs are a dime a dozen position so it wouldnt surprise me at all if some rbs from this class end up starting somewhere someday, i just dont see any of the rbs in this class coming close to the class last yr, and i wonder if jr, in scouting players and stuff, felt that this class would be weak as well and factored that into deciding to take wilson last yr and not chance it this one...food for thought is all I disagree.. I thought David Wilson was a 2nd rd talent personally, and i think u can get tons more value then what we got with David Wilson if we waited and drafted a 3rd or even 4th rd RB this yr... I think guys like i mentioned can and possibly will be every bit as good as David Wilson ends up being..

poppa smurph
02-24-2013, 08:47 PM
I get what your saying but a 4.6, might be a little stretch.Alfred Morris?

giantsfan420
02-24-2013, 10:38 PM
I disagree.. I thought David Wilson was a 2nd rd talent personally, and i think u can get tons more value then what we got with David Wilson if we waited and drafted a 3rd or even 4th rd RB this yr... I think guys like i mentioned can and possibly will be every bit as good as David Wilson ends up being..thats cool. thats ur opinion. i was more talking about the combine measurements when comparing wilson and rbs in this class...if there was a rb who produced numbers competitie with wilson id love to see them bc from the rbs i saw today, no one was really close when factoring in the previous seasons performance (led ncaa in yds after contact, all acc team)

slipknottin
02-24-2013, 10:40 PM
I disagree.. I thought David Wilson was a 2nd rd talent personally

Last pick of the 1st round is pretty much a 2nd round pick.

I think Wilson has more upside than anyone in the current draft.

Toadofsteel
02-24-2013, 11:23 PM
I disagree.. I thought David Wilson was a 2nd rd talent personally, and i think u can get tons more value then what we got with David Wilson if we waited and drafted a 3rd or even 4th rd RB this yr... I think guys like i mentioned can and possibly will be every bit as good as David Wilson ends up being..

Given that we picked at 32 he practically did just about fall to the 2nd round.

giantsfan420
02-24-2013, 11:26 PM
Last pick of the 1st round is pretty much a 2nd round pick.

I think Wilson has more upside than anyone in the current draft.i guess thats a much easier, simpler way of saying what i attempted to...for me, its not even close really either

giantsfan420
02-24-2013, 11:27 PM
just from a combine perspective too, dont think a rb had as good a performance wilson did...he put up some pretty sick numbers

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-24-2013, 11:35 PM
I am actually intrigued by zac stacy. small, powerful runner.

Imgrate
02-24-2013, 11:39 PM
Wilson was a terrible pick

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-24-2013, 11:39 PM
Wilson was a terrible pick

your kidding right?

Imgrate
02-24-2013, 11:43 PM
your kidding right?No.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-24-2013, 11:45 PM
No.

I think he will change your mind this season, who did you want that was available at 32? just curious.

Imgrate
02-24-2013, 11:47 PM
I think he will change your mind this season, who did you want that was available at 32? just curious. glenn branch worthy jenkins or reyes. Among others.

miked1958
02-24-2013, 11:50 PM
Alfred Morris?yep him and bunches of others. According to the guys on NFL Network today most of the very successful RBs had times clocked in the 4.6 range

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-24-2013, 11:52 PM
glenn branch worthy jenkins or reyes. Among others.

we got something this running game hasnt had in a while...explosion in the form of a kid who could take it to the house every time he touches the ball.

Imgrate
02-24-2013, 11:54 PM
we got something this running game hasnt had in a while...explosion in the form of a kid who could take it to the house every time he touches the ball.And we have no DL and one corner. Home run hitting running backs are available late in every draft. Oh, and Wilson isn't even the fastest rb on the team.

slipknottin
02-24-2013, 11:57 PM
And we have no DL and one corner. Home run hitting running backs are available late in every draft. Oh, and Wilson isn't even the fastest rb on the team.

Well I think you are seriously under rating Wilson's skill, but I understand the positional argument.

I did love Reyes coming out. Thought he was the best Uconn player I've ever seen.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-24-2013, 11:59 PM
And we have no DL and one corner. Home run hitting running backs are available late in every draft. Oh, and Wilson isn't even the fastest rb on the team.

scott ran a 4.29? and we were coming off a super bowl win the year wilson was drafted so i don't follow the no DL and one CB.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 12:11 AM
scott ran a 4.29? and we were coming off a super bowl win the year wilson was drafted so i don't follow the no DL and one CB. Scotts "official" time is faster. Not sure what you don't follow, we currently have one corner and no DL depth nor a starting 3 tech. Your team always needs an in flux of young talented DLmen. Last year was no different and we're feeling it now.

slipknottin
02-25-2013, 12:14 AM
Scotts "official" time is faster. Not sure what you don't follow, we currently have one corner and no DL depth nor a starting 3 tech. Your team always needs an in flux of young talented DLmen. Last year was no different and we're feeling it now.

They would be feeling it at hb too. Bradshaw gone, brown broken leg, Scott spent last year on IR.
I know it's always said HBs are a dime a dozen, but there are quite a few teams that can't find one at all. (Detroit, Green Bay, etc)

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 12:19 AM
They would be feeling it at hb too. Bradshaw gone, brown broken leg, Scott spent last year on IR.I know it's always said HBs are a dime a dozen, but there are quite a few teams that can't find one at all. (Detroit, Green Bay, etc) We arent one of those teams, though. Ward jacobs brown bradshaw all 4th to undrafted. The wilson pick will never make sense to me.

slipknottin
02-25-2013, 12:23 AM
We arent one of those teams, though. Ward jacobs brown bradshaw all 4th to undrafted. The wilson pick will never make sense to me.

They got nothing at all out of their running game the past couple seasons. Needed a more explosive player. And I like Scott, but he isn't a burst runner. He's a smooth accelerating guy with really high top end speed. But not a darter like Wilson.

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 01:05 AM
yep him and bunches of others. According to the guys on NFL Network today most of the very successful RBs had times clocked in the 4.6 rangemayock was saying that guys in the 5'10 area at around 210 lbs are going to run a 4.5,4.6 typically...which is why wilson was a great pick imo, who is like 5'10 and 215 iirc, has 4.3 speed, and had the most YAC of any rb in the NCAA...

and he def. was not a terrible pick. would u be happy going into next season with a rb unit of bradshaw, a rookie from this class, and ab2?

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 01:08 AM
Scotts "official" time is faster. Not sure what you don't follow, we currently have one corner and no DL depth nor a starting 3 tech. Your team always needs an in flux of young talented DLmen. Last year was no different and we're feeling it now.yeah true what was jr thinking? he could have solved all those issues had he just not drafted wilson lmao...u realize we'd still have no dl depth, 1 corner, etc. if the pick was reyes or whoever it was u claimed would have been a better pick (ironically tho not one of the players u listed had any sort of impact last year too)

Toadofsteel
02-25-2013, 02:26 AM
They got nothing at all out of their running game the past couple seasons. Needed a more explosive player. And I like Scott, but he isn't a burst runner. He's a smooth accelerating guy with really high top end speed. But not a darter like Wilson.

Why they went for a RB instead of fixing the OL, I will never know... JR doesn't seem to want to ever draft OL. It's too bad, since the one time he did ever draft an OL before round 4, we got Beatty... aka the only OL we have (and may not even have next season) that is any good...

myles2424
02-25-2013, 04:22 AM
Wilson was a terrible pick
Ur no joke the biggest Wilson hater on here, can't wait for the season to start,I look forward to digging up alot of the quotes you make....such as this one

Redeyejedi
02-25-2013, 08:45 AM
Ur no joke the biggest Wilson hater on here, can't wait for the season to start,I look forward to digging up alot of the quotes you make....such as this one U can dislike the value of the pick like me but he isnt a terrible player. I still think they would of been better off with Cordy Glenn.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 08:52 AM
Ur no joke the biggest Wilson hater on here, can't wait for the season to start,I look forward to digging up alot of the quotes you make....such as this oneIt really doesn't matter how well he plays, and I do expect him to play well. What matters is that he's a rb.

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 08:57 AM
Ur no joke the biggest Wilson hater on here, can't wait for the season to start,I look forward to digging up alot of the quotes you make....such as this one
Nobody is a Wilson hater. He just thinks picking a RB in the first (no matter who it is) is a bad pick. I disagree but I get his point.
Having that point of view does not make him a Wilson hater.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 09:00 AM
yeah true what was jr thinking? he could have solved all those issues had he just not drafted wilson lmao...u realize we'd still have no dl depth, 1 corner, etc. if the pick was reyes or whoever it was u claimed would have been a better pick (ironically tho not one of the players u listed had any sort of impact last year too)Really? No sort of impact. Do you even watch them play?

nycsportzfan
02-25-2013, 09:05 AM
I think he will change your mind this season, who did you want that was available at 32? just curious. I would of taken Cordy Glenn if i was picking there personally... Shoot, i'd of taken Casey Hayward there, as i thought he was the 2nd best CB in last yrs draft class... GUys who are gonna end up splitting the load with anotehr RB isn't worth the 1st rd... Now if Dougie Martin was there, thats diffrent... I'd of taken Coby Fleener over him as well..

But, all that said, hes intriguing and had his moments last yr, and i definetly think hes gonna have some great moments this yr....

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 09:14 AM
Well the reality is that he's on the team. He's a good player with a huge upside.
I guess I look at the draft differently. I think you draft "prospects". You don't draft finished products. Any player that is drafted and plays a lot and contributes to the team is a good pick...whether its a 1st rounder or a 7th rounder. Its all a crap shoot.

If you don't agree, look back over the last 20 years and see how many first rounders busted out and never did much at all. So if you get a guy who contributes...a GM has done his job.

Redeyejedi
02-25-2013, 09:29 AM
I would of taken Cordy Glenn if i was picking there personally... Shoot, i'd of taken Casey Hayward there, as i thought he was the 2nd best CB in last yrs draft class... GUys who are gonna end up splitting the load with anotehr RB isn't worth the 1st rd... Now if Dougie Martin was there, thats diffrent... I'd of taken Coby Fleener over him as well..

But, all that said, hes intriguing and had his moments last yr, and i definetly think hes gonna have some great moments this yr.... i had plenty of players rated above him.

Honestly though when u get to that 25-45 range i think the prospects are pretty similar

Toadofsteel
02-25-2013, 09:43 AM
Nobody is a Wilson hater. He just thinks picking a RB in the first (no matter who it is) is a bad pick. I disagree but I get his point.
Having that point of view does not make him a Wilson hater.

I guess nobody is an Eli hater either, huh?

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 10:06 AM
i had plenty of players rated above him.

Honestly though when u get to that 25-45 range i think the prospects are pretty similar

Well getting back to the subject at hand, I doubt that we will draft any RB's this season. We have so many holes in the trenches it seems like a wasted pick. If you go back to last years draft, RB seemed to be a huge need with the loss of BJ and the injury riddled year for Bradshaw.
It has to be about O line and D line for me in early rounds. Unless someone drops big time to us.

BlueSanta
02-25-2013, 10:42 AM
People know I love Wilson going into the draft. I had him higher then most here. However, even I would have never guessed that he would go ahead of Cordy Glenn and at the time we picked when I saw what was on the board, I was thinking Glenn..

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 11:50 AM
Really? No sort of impact. Do you even watch them play?enlighten me. of the players u listed, who played at such a level as to say that it was a waste not taking one of those guys and picking wilson? bc I do watch most of the teams the players u listed play on. and it was tough to watch them play, bc they werent even on the field all that much. perhaps reyes could be argued, but even he was a situational player for them who didnt do a whole lot.
pls, instead of resorting to fallacy and "did u even watch them play" remarks, post some data to prove ur point...of those guys u listed a few pages ago, who had this great rookie campaign compared to wilson?

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 12:03 PM
enlighten me. of the players u listed, who played at such a level as to say that it was a waste not taking one of those guys and picking wilson? bc I do watch most of the teams the players u listed play on. and it was tough to watch them play, bc they werent even on the field all that much. perhaps reyes could be argued, but even he was a situational player for them who didnt do a whole lot.
pls, instead of resorting to fallacy and "did u even watch them play" remarks, post some data to prove ur point...of those guys u listed a few pages ago, who had this great rookie campaign compared to wilson?
If you were around last draft you would know that I was a HUGE Wilson guy. I predicted a week before the draft that we would and should draft Wilson.
'Having said that, Wilson did NOT have a good rookie season. He definitely showed flashes, but generally he was a non factor to our team last season. We can blame TC for benching him for half a season (and I have) but he just didn't contribute to the offense like I had hoped.
His KO returns was a pleseant surprise but with the ball being kicked from the 35, even that impact was minimized.

So these other guys that Lawl mentioned all have to be measured in the long term, just like Wilson. To say that they didn't contribute last season to their teams (and that's debatable) misses the point.
So the jury is out on all these guys. Lawl has his theory about picking RB's early, and I respect it (and disagree with it as well). But his theory hasn't been confirmed or discredited by the play of any of these guys, including Wilson.

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 12:07 PM
I would of taken Cordy Glenn if i was picking there personally... Shoot, i'd of taken Casey Hayward there, as i thought he was the 2nd best CB in last yrs draft class... GUys who are gonna end up splitting the load with anotehr RB isn't worth the 1st rd... Now if Dougie Martin was there, thats diffrent... I'd of taken Coby Fleener over him as well..

But, all that said, hes intriguing and had his moments last yr, and i definetly think hes gonna have some great moments this yr....see, i think passing on glenn last yr kinda works for my lil theory. imo, JR is gonna have extensive knowledge of the next 3 or 4 draft classes. I mean dont misconstrue that to mean he has a big board or knows every guy who will declare. but more along the lines he has an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular class.
last yr, the talent at OT dropped off after the premium guys. Glenn, iirc, had some physical limitations that worried teams. Imo, its plausible that JR understood that this class, outside a Lattimore and maybe Lacy, was gonna be a poor rb class but a very very good trenches draft. so instead of reaching for glenn last yr, and pushing off the rb issue (imo, it would have been more important/needed to draft a rb this offseason compared to last bc we lost 27 last yr, ok sux, but losing 44 hurts the offense much more) he took perhaps the last rb to possess the skill set wilson had for not only last draft class but this one as well.
for me, in terms of prospects/talent, there isnt a rb who comes close to wilson in this draft. i know a couple guys posted insane 40x, but wilson impressed in every drill, and he has a body of work that trumps pretty much every high quality rb in this draft outside Lattimore (and even he is close). Wilson led the ncaa in YAC and was all american irrc. Guys like Niles and Ball r intriguing, Lattimore too but those devastating injuries, Lacey seems like a more legit A.Morris type rb, but still, i believe there isnt 1 rb in this class who has a ceiling even close to wilson. and considering this draft class strength is the trenches, i dont see the method we drafted and players we chose correlated to draft class and this yrs poor rb class as a coincidence.

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 12:11 PM
If you were around last draft you would know that I was a HUGE Wilson guy. I predicted a week before the draft that we would and should draft Wilson.
'Having said that, Wilson did NOT have a good rookie season. He definitely showed flashes, but generally he was a non factor to our team last season. We can blame TC for benching him for half a season (and I have) but he just didn't contribute to the offense like I had hoped.
His KO returns was a pleseant surprise but with the ball being kicked from the 35, even that impact was minimized.

So these other guys that Lawl mentioned all have to be measured in the long term, just like Wilson. To say that they didn't contribute last season to their teams (and that's debatable) misses the point.
So the jury is out on all these guys. Lawl has his theory about picking RB's early, and I respect it (and disagree with it as well). But his theory hasn't been confirmed or discredited by the play of any of these guys, including Wilson.well thats not my point tho. imgrate, is he lawl? listed players that would have clearly been an upgrade to wilson, im asking him to quantify it. bc i watched a lot of those guys play, and honestly, not 1 of the players he listed as sure fire piks over wilson really did much of anything...and if we're just talking in terms of "contributing", who outontributed wilson and his ST play for us this yr? he did make the probowl and also set a franchise record one game...
Reyes? Glenn? He listed half a dozen guys or so who didnt do muh of anything and claimed that the picking of wilson meant we couldnt address "no dl depth, 1 corner, no OL, etc." in a way that implies had we taken one of those ther guys, we dont have those issues...

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 12:14 PM
see, i think passing on glenn last yr kinda works for my lil theory. imo, JR is gonna have extensive knowledge of the next 3 or 4 draft classes. I mean dont misconstrue that to mean he has a big board or knows every guy who will declare. but more along the lines he has an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular class.
last yr, the talent at OT dropped off after the premium guys. Glenn, iirc, had some physical limitations that worried teams. Imo, its plausible that JR understood that this class, outside a Lattimore and maybe Lacy, was gonna be a poor rb class but a very very good trenches draft. so instead of reaching for glenn last yr, and pushing off the rb issue (imo, it would have been more important/needed to draft a rb this offseason compared to last bc we lost 27 last yr, ok sux, but losing 44 hurts the offense much more) he took perhaps the last rb to possess the skill set wilson had for not only last draft class but this one as well.
for me, in terms of prospects/talent, there isnt a rb who comes close to wilson in this draft. i know a couple guys posted insane 40x, but wilson impressed in every drill, and he has a body of work that trumps pretty much every high quality rb in this draft outside Lattimore (and even he is close). Wilson led the ncaa in YAC and was all american irrc. Guys like Niles and Ball r intriguing, Lattimore too but those devastating injuries, Lacey seems like a more legit A.Morris type rb, but still, i believe there isnt 1 rb in this class who has a ceiling even close to wilson. and considering this draft class strength is the trenches, i dont see the method we drafted and players we chose correlated to draft class and this yrs poor rb class as a coincidence.


JR is a smart guy but you are giving him way too much credit. You can never know how college players will develop, at least not to the extent that you are suggesting.
Its much more of a crap shoot than you are suggesting.

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 12:14 PM
glenn branch worthy jenkins or reyes. Among others.which one of these guys had a rookie campaign that justifies saying "we should have went with him over wilson."

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 12:18 PM
JR is a smart guy but you are giving him way too much credit. You can never know how college players will develop, at least not to the extent that you are suggesting.
Its much more of a crap shoot than you are suggesting.i was trying to answer this before it was asked and apparently did a poor job. i dont mean it in the sense JR knows his big board and who the top 25 or 50 players will be. i mean it in the sense he can prob look at the class as a whole, and have a good understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of that class. it could be on ongoing process as well. meaning JR could have scouts working on the next class specifically and its a continually updated thing. perhaps by last draft class, JR had a solid understanding of the strengths of this class. remember, he did make a comment about a run on the quality rbs...perhaps the next class of rbs weighed in on his decision is all im saying...imo its plausible JR saw Wilson on the board, after Martin had just been picked, and knowing Wilsns measurables/skill set was going to be favorable vs any rb not only in his class (wilsons) but the next class as well...he opted to take wilson, bypass glenn having an understanding the next class would be chock full of quality OL/DL

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 12:18 PM
well thats not my point tho. imgrate, is he lawl? listed players that would have clearly been an upgrade to wilson, im asking him to quantify it. bc i watched a lot of those guys play, and honestly, not 1 of the players he listed as sure fire piks over wilson really did much of anything...and if we're just talking in terms of "contributing", who outontributed wilson and his ST play for us this yr? he did make the probowl and also set a franchise record one game...
Reyes? Glenn? He listed half a dozen guys or so who didnt do muh of anything and claimed that the picking of wilson meant we couldnt address "no dl depth, 1 corner, no OL, etc." in a way that implies had we taken one of those ther guys, we dont have those issues...
You can't quantify until they've all been in the league a few years.
A RB can have an immediate impact. A LT or corner tend to take a lot longer to develop.
As I understand his (and yes he's Lawl) position, RB's need to contribute right away because their shelf life in the NFL is shorter. So since Wilson didn't have the kind of season I'm sure JR had hoped for, he's suggesting that that works against his being drafted.
In one respect i would tend to agree. You have to measure the early play of players differently. A corne or O lineman won't tend to produce as early as a RB would. Its just the reality of the league.

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 12:20 PM
which one of these guys had a rookie campaign that justifies saying "we should have went with him over wilson."
Again...Using a rookie season to gauge the quality of a pick is a poor way to evaluate.
It takes several years to do that.

myles2424
02-25-2013, 12:21 PM
Nobody is a Wilson hater. He just thinks picking a RB in the first (no matter who it is) is a bad pick. I disagree but I get his point.
Having that point of view does not make him a Wilson hater.

The point of view isn't what makes him a hater, but in every single thread about Wilson,he's in it talking about what a waste Wilson is,makes him a hater....it's easy to look back after the fact & say "should've drafted this ___guy"....but in reality %90 of people around here would've went with Fleener

giantsfan420
02-25-2013, 12:23 PM
You can't quantify until they've all been in the league a few years.
A RB can have an immediate impact. A LT or corner tend to take a lot longer to develop.
As I understand his (and yes he's Lawl) position, RB's need to contribute right away because their shelf life in the NFL is shorter. So since Wilson didn't have the kind of season I'm sure JR had hoped for, he's suggesting that that works against his being drafted.
In one respect i would tend to agree. You have to measure the early play of players differently. A corne or O lineman won't tend to produce as early as a RB would. Its just the reality of the league.well i view it differently. i mean we didnt take a rb top 10 or sumthin...last pick of rd 1 as sb defendng champs with a worsening run game.
and if we cant quantify it for those other guys until a few years, why isnt that afforded to wilson? solely bc he plays rb?? i dont buy into that esp. when we took him 32nd overall...and, to be honest, i thought wilson looked as good running the ball as anyone that final lil stretch...and further, it wasnt as if he didnt contribute...he contributed a ton really as a ST return guy. we virtually won one game bc of him (N.O), and he made the probowl for the yr he had as a returner. id argue he outperformed those other guys by a ton and didnt even live up to half his potential....im sorry, id love to used wilson more last season, but i still feel he was used enough to display the skill that warranted a 1rst rd selection, whereas the other guys lawl listed who went after wilson, imo, did not.

edit-i guess thats my point, those guys he listed, imo, didnt display a level of play that makes me say "shoulda went with him over wilson." now, a few yrs and all, i get that. but wilson will have a few yrs as well to progress...they all started from the same point, rookies trying to break on the scene, imo, wilson did a better job of that than those ther guys. and imo, in a few yrs, he'll still be outpeforming those same guys.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 12:26 PM
The point of view isn't what makes him a hater, but in every single thread about Wilson,he's in it talking about what a waste Wilson is,makes him a hater....it's easy to look back after the fact & say "should've drafted this ___guy"....but in reality %90 of people around here would've went with FleenerDidnt want fleener, my opinion has been the same since the day of the draft

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 12:29 PM
well i view it differently. i mean we didnt take a rb top 10 or sumthin...last pick of rd 1 as sb defendng champs with a worsening run game.
and if we cant quantify it for those other guys until a few years, why isnt that afforded to wilson? solely bc he plays rb?? i dont buy into that esp. when we took him 32nd overall...and, to be honest, i thought wilson looked as good running the ball as anyone that final lil stretch...and further, it wasnt as if he didnt contribute...he contributed a ton really as a ST return guy. we virtually won one game bc of him (N.O), and he made the probowl for the yr he had as a returner. id argue he outperformed those other guys by a ton and didnt even live up to half his potential....im sorry, id love to used wilson more last season, but i still feel he was used enough to display the skill that warranted a 1rst rd selection, whereas the other guys lawl listed who went after wilson, imo, did not.

It is afforded to Wilson. The play of none of these guys being discussed can yet validate any of these draft decisions.

I think Lawl's point however is that a RB, since they are usually in a better position to contribute early, gets a little less slack than other positions.

I mean Amani Toomer had one catch in his rookie year. Cory Webster did nothing at all his first season. But we knew what we had with Tiki early on, even though he got hurt. We also knew that Rodney hampton was going to be a great player. RB's don't usually have the development time that other positions do.
I think TC had a lot to do with keeping Wilson down. But he does need to produce this season.

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-25-2013, 08:14 PM
Scotts "official" time is faster. Not sure what you don't follow, we currently have one corner and no DL depth nor a starting 3 tech. Your team always needs an in flux of young talented DLmen. Last year was no different and we're feeling it now.

your complaining that we drafted david wilson when we only have only one corner and no DL. we drafted david wilson almost 3 months after winning the Superbowl. when we won that Superbowl we had a good DL and good corner play as well. these problems you described really crept up last year. you dont win a Superbowl with no DL and one good corner, so your comment about drafting wilson makes no sense unless you are saying our Superbowl winning defense was garbage that year.

BlessedinBlue22
02-25-2013, 08:42 PM
David Wilson is amazing...just look at his highlights, now with AB gone the sky is the limit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uviR8HjLDxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3BrF3fvA88 vs Saints alone

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 08:46 PM
your complaining that we drafted david wilson when we only have only one corner and no DL. we drafted david wilson almost 3 months after winning the Superbowl. when we won that Superbowl we had a good DL and good corner play as well. these problems you described really crept up last year. you dont win a Superbowl with no DL and one good corner, so your comment about drafting wilson makes no sense unless you are saying our Superbowl winning defense was garbage that year.
That's actually true. And we thought we had TT coming back as well.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 08:50 PM
your complaining that we drafted david wilson when we only have only one corner and no DL. we drafted david wilson almost 3 months after winning the Superbowl. when we won that Superbowl we had a good DL and good corner play as well. these problems you described really crept up last year. you dont win a Superbowl with no DL and one good corner, so your comment about drafting wilson makes no sense unless you are saying our Superbowl winning defense was garbage that year.Its called foresight. Osi was on his last year, Tuck had 2 years left, Canty was a constant candidate to be cut, and Webster was turning 30. I said all of this predraft.

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 08:51 PM
David Wilson is amazing...just look at his highlights, now with AB gone the sky is the limit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uviR8HjLDxk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3BrF3fvA88 vs Saints alone
I have to admit, as one of the biggest Wilson supporters here, he disappointed me last season. I definitely blame TC for his overreaction to one stinking fumble. (I mean punishing his for a half a season is ridiculous).
But what bothered me about Wilson was his lack of wiggle. He seems to be a RB with great straight line speed, but I haven't yet seen an ability to make NFL defenders miss. And that's what makes a great NFL RB.
I have seen some power from him, but he's been essentially a straight line runner to this point.

slipknottin
02-25-2013, 08:52 PM
Its called foresight. Osi was on his last year, Tuck had 2 years left, Canty was a constant candidate to be cut, and Webster was turning 30. I said all of this predraft.

If we are comparing just needs, HB was just as big a need as anything else. If not more so.

The issue you have with it is that HB in your opinion is not worth the last pick in the first round.

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 08:56 PM
If we are comparing just needs, HB was just as big a need as anything else. If not more so.

The issue you have with it is that HB in your opinion is not worth the last pick in the first round.
I think he would agree with you on that. That is definitely his issue.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 08:57 PM
If we are comparing just needs, HB was just as big a need as anything else. If not more so. The issue you have with it is that HB in your opinion is not worth the last pick in the first round.I never view a top rb as a need when you have a top 5 qb. Put a bunch of mid rounders at rb that have different skillsets and youll do just fine.

Morehead State
02-25-2013, 09:00 PM
I never view a top rb as a need when you have a top 5 qb. Put a bunch of mid rounders at rb that have different skillsets and youll do just fine.
OK now i know you're full of ****. You've been harder on Eli than I have..........By a lot.
I'm just more "colorful" about it than you are.

Imgrate
02-25-2013, 09:06 PM
OK now i know you're full of ****. You've been harder on Eli than I have..........By a lot.I'm just more "colorful" about it than you are.Id have a hard time naming 5 qbs that are 100% better than eli. His health plays a huge role in that grading. Regardless, my qualm with a rb early is that it takes away an opportunity to have a good cheap player at an expensive position like de cb dt etc. Additionally, I hate the idea of giving rbs a second contract.

giants8493
02-25-2013, 09:13 PM
David Wilson is one of those running backs that make me smile.

Carter.525
02-25-2013, 11:52 PM
David Wilson is one of those running backs that make me smile.

me too... :)

ELI_HOF_NYG
02-26-2013, 01:22 AM
Its called foresight. Osi was on his last year, Tuck had 2 years left, Canty was a constant candidate to be cut, and Webster was turning 30. I said all of this predraft.

foresight? I think you meant it's called not understanding the giants draft philosophy.