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View Full Version : Let's just start from scratch (Toadofsteel 3.0)



Toadofsteel
03-06-2013, 01:41 PM
Edit, flipped my first two picks around.

Round 1: Alex Okafor DE Texas
A reach in the first, but plugs in right into a position of need (LDE). Right now he's listed behind Jordan, Mingo, Ziggy, Werner, Moore, Jones, and Tank on the DE depth in this draft, so he could very well be a steal that could fall to our 2nd round pick. A true LDE that would allow us to move into the future at the DE position, with JPP solidified as our RDE. Would allow Tuck to be a "defensive Diehl" for 2013, an older player in decline, but has the versatility to plug and play as needed in any of the DL positions.

If he's not there, someone like Kyle Long would be a good pick as well.

Round 2: Arthur Brown ILB Kansas St.
This guy would be the ultimate steal in a massive position of need if we got him. Good coverage, plays a lot stronger than his frame suggests. Good sideline-to-sideline speed, can match up decently vs a TE, slot WR, WR on crossing route, or RB. Most importantly, he's not Dez Bryant in a linebacker's body.

If he is (most likely) off the board, I'd still probably take Te'o or Minter over Ogletree, who, character issues aside, seems to fit into a 4-3 more as a weak-side linebacker than a true MLB. For that matter. if he was gone and someone in a different position like Werner, Ansah, or Rhodes fell to 19, I would pick that way as well and just roll with Blackburn for one more year. Under absolutely NO circumstances would I ever pick Ogletree.

Round 3: Bennie Logan DT LSU
This pick is my lone unchanged pick from previous mocks. I think he is a decent DT that can definitely help out right away in rotation with Kuhn. Loves the Giants (yes I know we've all read that article, but it bears reiterating).

Round 4: Earl Watford OG James Madison
A developmental G who is decent at pass protection but needs to bulk up a little to make it in the NFL. Since we still have Snee in 2013, he could develop his rookie year into Snee's eventual replacement.

Round 5: Rodney Smith WR Florida St.
Normally I would say we don't need to draft a WR, but with Barden most likely gone and possibly Hixon as well, Smith is a tall receiver that, unlike Barden, is also a smooth route runner. Needs to work on his ability to physically fight for the ball, but he presents a huge target.

Round 6: Kip Edwards CB Missouri
Has the size to be an outside corner in the NFL. Since we're most likely stuck with the Toaster for one more year, I feel like we can wait on picking a CB until here. Has problems in press coverage and is better playing off the receiver, but since PF never calls for press coverage anyway it shouldn't be that big of a problem, increasing his value for our organization.

Round 7: Cameron Lawrence OLB Missippi St.
A strong-side LB, has good football discipline, maintains gap control, has constant motor, is not afraid to take on blocks and works hard to beat them. Only real problem is that he's skinny and would need a good year or so to bulk up with an NFL weight program.

Carter.525
03-06-2013, 02:00 PM
why are you thinking Arthur Brown will be gone..? and if he is a weak-side LB, I don't want him

Toadofsteel
03-06-2013, 02:05 PM
why are you thinking Arthur Brown will be gone..? and if he is a weak-side LB, I don't want him

I was saying Ogletree was projected to fit more as a weak LB in a 4-3 (inside on 3-4)...

And Brown is rated higher than Ogletree and Te'o... pretty much the highest ILB on the board right now, hence why I say massive dream pick.

TheEnigma
03-06-2013, 02:11 PM
Ehh, it only takes 2-3 QBs for a few of these "dream" picks to be pushed down to us. That doesn't factor in all the talented defensive players at DE, DT, and CB that could easily go before Brown. There's the big three OTs and the slight possibility of a G reach so Arthur Brown has a very realistic possibility being available at 19th overall.

Okafor in the middle of round 2 sounds more like a dream to be honest because the fans and media are sleeping on him since he doesn't possess some freakish athletic trait for us to talk about. He's a solid player that could be a late 1st to early 2nd round choice.

Mlerman17
03-06-2013, 02:15 PM
I don't think brown will go in the the top 20 picks or even the first round IMO. So I think he has a low value rating at pick 19.

Sovereign
03-06-2013, 02:15 PM
why are you thinking Arthur Brown will be gone..? and if he is a weak-side LB, I don't want him

This and this. Brown needs to bulk up if he wants to be a MIKE. Next two picks are good but they'll probably be gone. Bennie Logan definitely won't be in the 4th. Some have him going in the 2nd..

Mlerman17
03-06-2013, 02:16 PM
Ohh and btw u r definitely the biggest ogletree hater on these boards.. Lol. I agree with your assessment of how he fits on our team but u make the guy out to be the devil or something.

Toadofsteel
03-06-2013, 02:19 PM
This and this. Brown needs to bulk up if he wants to be a MIKE. Next two picks are good but they'll probably be gone. Bennie Logan definitely won't be in the 4th. Some have him going in the 2nd..
If Brown is not 1st round material, someone explain this (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:lb) to me

TheEnigma
03-06-2013, 02:21 PM
This and this. Brown needs to bulk up if he wants to be a MIKE. Next two picks are good but they'll probably be gone. Bennie Logan definitely won't be in the 4th. Some have him going in the 2nd..

Brown is only 1b lighter than Bowman and they are the same height. He would be fine being our glue in the middle.

Toadofsteel
03-06-2013, 02:28 PM
My dream situation is still to find a trading partner late in the first or early 2nd to pick Minter, but that's not likely to happen. I always check first for character and maturity issues, as a player that is not willing to learn, work, and improve will never be a good pro football player, no matter how freakishly athletic he is. (The way I have the top 4 ILB rated from best to worst in character and work ethic: Minter, Brown, Te'o, Ogletree.)

People here seem to subscribe to the JPP school of thought: Bring in a raw athlete and he will learn how to play on the fly. But they forget that the resaon JPP was raw was because he switched from basketball to football fairly late in college. He's very smart and has learned admirably. Not every football player can replicate that. You need the mental capacity to be able to execute your assignments, otherwise that athleticism is for nothing.

tl;dr: brain over brawns.

Sovereign
03-06-2013, 02:31 PM
Jerry Reese specifically stated that he drafts according to height/weight/speed. Let's disregard the fact he doesn't draft linebackers round one. Brown is 15 lbs lighter than the other top ILBs out there. He's almost like a safety. He's not going to be our first round pick regardless what anyone thinks. Reese was content in having a 6th round pick start at MLB.

Just like TE it's a position he ignores and a position he will continue to ignore. Especially when they're not at the top of the height weight and speed scale.

BlueSabbath
03-06-2013, 05:24 PM
I'll be VERY surprised if Brown goes in the first. I've seen him projected as a mid to late 2nd rounder.

Thanks for the 100th post telling us you don't want Ogeltree.

Okafor in the 2nd is the dream. That would be the steal of the draft IMO. It could happen though if he doesn't have a solid pro day. My next mock may have him as our 2nd round pick. I've seen mocks that have him available with our 2nd.

BlessedinBlue22
03-06-2013, 09:33 PM
No way Okafor falls to us in the 2nd, Doubt he lasts past the Jets if he does slip into the 2nd. He plays the run and pass rushes too well, can strip sack as well, created a lot of turnovers at Texas.

TCHOF
03-06-2013, 10:06 PM
Ehh, it only takes 2-3 QBs for a few of these "dream" picks to be pushed down to us. That doesn't factor in all the talented defensive players at DE, DT, and CB that could easily go before Brown. There's the big three OTs and the slight possibility of a G reach so Arthur Brown has a very realistic possibility being available at 19th overall.

Okafor in the middle of round 2 sounds more like a dream to be honest because the fans and media are sleeping on him since he doesn't possess some freakish athletic trait for us to talk about. He's a solid player that could be a late 1st to early 2nd round choice.

This.

It would be great if a couple of QB's got way overdrafted in the first 18 picks!

Toadofsteel
03-06-2013, 11:44 PM
This.

It would be great if a couple of QB's got way overdrafted in the first 18 picks!

Arizona, Cleveland, Buffalo, and Jacksonville are all in the market for a QB and may pick in the first two rounds... It only takes one of them to start a run on QB, given how thin the QB draft class is this year....

Toadofsteel
03-06-2013, 11:45 PM
I'll be VERY surprised if Brown goes in the first. I've seen him projected as a mid to late 2nd rounder.

Thanks for the 100th post telling us you don't want Ogeltree.

Okafor in the 2nd is the dream. That would be the steal of the draft IMO. It could happen though if he doesn't have a solid pro day. My next mock may have him as our 2nd round pick. I've seen mocks that have him available with our 2nd.

Would flipping the two picks make sense? Or is Okafor too much of a reach for round 1? If we're picking DE in round 1 I would imagine it's BDEA anyway (as opposed to just BPA)

GiantPride13
03-07-2013, 09:49 AM
I don't think brown will go in the the top 20 picks or even the first round IMO. So I think he has a low value rating at pick 19.

agree 100% - Hes a good player and has star potential but not at 19

ryan12
03-07-2013, 09:59 AM
good mock but dont like waiting until 6th rd until selecting cb

Toadofsteel
03-07-2013, 11:22 AM
good mock but dont like waiting until 6th rd until selecting cb

I did that because it's starting to look like the Webster is going to be here for his final contract year, and while he's getting up there he's not super old yet. If his craptastic 2012 outing was in fact largely due to injury and not just actual decline, he should be able to recover some production next season. A development project seems to be in order, and if he doesn't pan out, we go CB round 1 or 2 in the 2014 draft.

Rusty192
03-07-2013, 12:39 PM
Is it me, or is Arthur Brown a dead ringer for Harry Carson. As far as looks.

Would love to have Brown on the Giants.

BlueSabbath
03-07-2013, 12:53 PM
Would flipping the two picks make sense? Or is Okafor too much of a reach for round 1? If we're picking DE in round 1 I would imagine it's BDEA anyway (as opposed to just BPA)

I have Okafor as my first but only because of who I think will be gone and because (pre combine/pro day) I was thinking his stock could rise. Some more highly rated DEs seem to be dropping a bit in recent mocks I have seen so I'm not sure if he would be our choice (although I think he would be a PERFECT fit for us). I do think Arthur Brown could be available with our 2nd so if you did try another mock you could pick a different first rounder and save AB for your second. Which I think would be a GREAT 2nd round pick.

Toadofsteel
03-07-2013, 01:42 PM
I have Okafor as my first but only because of who I think will be gone and because (pre combine/pro day) I was thinking his stock could rise. Some more highly rated DEs seem to be dropping a bit in recent mocks I have seen so I'm not sure if he would be our choice (although I think he would be a PERFECT fit for us). I do think Arthur Brown could be available with our 2nd so if you did try another mock you could pick a different first rounder and save AB for your second. Which I think would be a GREAT 2nd round pick.

Honestly the reason I picked Okafor at all is because of how well he fits with our system and can basically plug in as our LDE. It's just all the good fits with us are awkward to pick... too low for our first and too high for our second.

BlueSabbath
03-07-2013, 02:06 PM
Honestly the reason I picked Okafor at all is because of how well he fits with our system and can basically plug in as our LDE. It's just all the good fits with us are awkward to pick... too low for our first and too high for our second.

Totally agree. The only guy I'm really high on that actually matches the value right now is Ogletree... who I know you don't like, but I don't think his character issues to this point are that bad. DUI's to me depend on how drunk you are... I could have 3 beers and be perfectly fine but a cop would throw me in jail.... and him getting suspended at UGA could have had a lot to do with how strict UGA's policies are. Pretty much every other SEC school you have to fail a drug test multiple times to get suspended... at UGA, it's only once. So there could be plenty of guys we all say we want that did the exact same thing as him we never heard about it. I agree, he was totally irresponsible but I think the coaches at UGA do a piss poor job of keeping their players in line (they had like 11 players arrested in a 7 month span)... He's still young and could easily mature as an adult and under the right leadership.

Toadofsteel
03-07-2013, 02:16 PM
Totally agree. The only guy I'm really high on that actually matches the value right now is Ogletree... who I know you don't like, but I don't think his character issues to this point are that bad. DUI's to me depend on how drunk you are... I could have 3 beers and be perfectly fine but a cop would throw me in jail.... and him getting suspended at UGA could have had a lot to do with how strict UGA's policies are. Pretty much every other SEC school you have to fail a drug test multiple times to get suspended... at UGA, it's only once. So there could be plenty of guys we all say we want that did the exact same thing as him we never heard about it. I agree, he was totally irresponsible but I think the coaches at UGA do a piss poor job of keeping their players in line (they had like 11 players arrested in a 7 month span)... He's still young and could easily mature as an adult and under the right leadership.

And again I say if Reese picks him I will support it. In Reese We Trust, after all...

evojutsu
03-07-2013, 03:13 PM
Round 1: Arthur Brown ILB Kansas St.
Massive dream pick, probably won't be there at 19. This guy would be the ultimate steal in a massive position of need if we got him. Good coverage, plays a lot stronger than his frame suggests. Good sideline-to-sideline speed, can match up decently vs a TE, slot WR, WR on crossing route, or RB. Most importantly, he's not Dez Bryant in a linebacker's body.

If he is (most likely) off the board, I'd still probably take Te'o or Minter over Ogletree, who, character issues aside, seems to fit into a 4-3 more as a weak-side linebacker than a true MLB. For that matter. if he was gone and someone in a different position like Werner, Ansah, or Rhodes fell to 19, I would pick that way as well and just roll with Blackburn for one more year. Under absolutely NO circumstances would I ever pick Ogletree.

Round 2: Alex Okafor DE Texas
A bit of a dream, but not as much as Brown... Right now he's listed behind Jordan, Mingo, Ziggy, Werner, Moore, Jones, and Tank on the DE depth in this draft, so he could very well be a steal that could fall to our 2nd round pick. A true LDE that would allow us to move into the future at the DE position, with JPP solidified as our RDE. Would allow Tuck to be a "defensive Diehl" for 2013, an older player in decline, but has the versatility to plug and play as needed in any of the DL positions.

If he's not there, someone like Kyle Long would be a good pick as well.

Round 3: Bennie Logan DT LSU
This pick is my lone unchanged pick from previous mocks. I think he is a decent DT that can definitely help out right away in rotation with Kuhn. Loves the Giants (yes I know we've all read that article, but it bears reiterating).

Round 4: Earl Watford OG James Madison
A developmental G who is decent at pass protection but needs to bulk up a little to make it in the NFL. Since we still have Snee in 2013, he could develop his rookie year into Snee's eventual replacement.

Round 5: Rodney Smith WR Florida St.
Normally I would say we don't need to draft a WR, but with Barden most likely gone and possibly Hixon as well, Smith is a tall receiver that, unlike Barden, is also a smooth route runner. Needs to work on his ability to physically fight for the ball, but he presents a huge target.

Round 6: Kip Edwards CB Missouri
Has the size to be an outside corner in the NFL. Since we're most likely stuck with the Toaster for one more year, I feel like we can wait on picking a CB until here. Has problems in press coverage and is better playing off the receiver, but since PF never calls for press coverage anyway it shouldn't be that big of a problem, increasing his value for our organization.

Round 7: Cameron Lawrence OLB Missippi St.
A strong-side LB, has good football discipline, maintains gap control, has constant motor, is not afraid to take on blocks and works hard to beat them. Only real problem is that he's skinny and would need a good year or so to bulk up with an NFL weight program.

Arthur Brown at 1- is an absolute poor value pick. he is round2-3.
Alex Okafor- Round 1 late to round 2. More toward round 2
I think we can do better. JR will do better i hope :)

G-Men Surg.
03-08-2013, 04:22 AM
If Brown is not 1st round material, someone explain this (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:lb) to me
I think Brown could be 1st round material but I do see him more like late 1st or more like early 2nd rounder. That been said that 19 th pick has way to much value and there's always the possibility of someone sliding all the way thru like Prince in '11.

BlessedinBlue22
03-08-2013, 10:54 PM
Just thinkin back when a lot of fans wanted Mark Ingram that draft..I was excited when we got Prince...BPA if a guy like Star of Jarvis Jones falls, i'd pull the trigger..but Mingo..ehhh..

BlueSabbath
03-11-2013, 11:27 AM
Just thinkin back when a lot of fans wanted Mark Ingram that draft..I was excited when we got Prince...BPA if a guy like Star of Jarvis Jones falls, i'd pull the trigger..but Mingo..ehhh..

I STILL wish we got Ingram. He would be a monster on our team. I was happy with Prince though.