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Tony Bruno
12-27-2011, 10:00 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good...

So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible...

Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period

GameTime
12-27-2011, 10:30 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>

nyginpattown
12-27-2011, 10:38 AM
The play clock has always been an issue with me. I watched last nights MNF. After a play the Saints players give the ref the ball, get to the huddle immediately, multiple substitutions are made, and they are at the line with 20 seconds left on the play clock for Brees to read the defense. I ask you, how much better would Eli be with that kind of time luxury?

Vtgmenfan89
12-27-2011, 10:39 AM
I think the offense itself is a good offense, but that damn guy with the mustache is truly the issue. Too much of the same stuff in the same situations, play is always in late, and we still almost never score a TD in the 1st half which is not going to win very many games, part of the reason we're 2-5 since the midway point. I mean come on every single time ware is split out wide, it's a screen. Never another play. Saints had sproles out wide last night, went to him one time, then never again if he or another rb was out there. Try that one to cruz or nicks for once, then its not seen a mile away.

KG's play calling is good maybe 4 games a season, it's pretty sad. I mean we have like 5 red zone plays, if that. HB draw, fade, slant that wrs always mess up and run a fade or vice versa, very rarely that nice play action play we used to win pats games, and the occasional big formation to run it in. I've watched every snap this year and I cant really think of anything else down there. Pretty sad. very rarely try to get a mismatch with a TE like the pats or saints, I know we don't have a guy of their te's caliber but it's not like we give them much of a shot either. Sort of got rambling here, just really can't stand how predictable this offense is and it's a big reason we collapse every year, IMO.

Oh and if I could give KG 10 grand to call a Hb screen out if the backfield against a blitz heavy defense, he'd prob scoff at me and say it works way better his way..... When that play has worked maybe twice for a combined gain if 10 yards. I won't even get into the medium-long passing routes he keeps calling when our o line's protection sucked. I mean come on. Guys almost got Eli killed a few times this year

brad
12-27-2011, 10:39 AM
Can't really argue against that, but... conversely, are they better because of the system or because of skill? Look at the systems that those other QB's play and the system the Giants run. The Giants are a conservative version of the "chuck and duck" offenses that KG ran with other teams... big plays when it works but difficult because the plays take a long time to develop, giving defenses time to get after the QB. In my opinion, Eli would be a better QB if the Giants implemented a system more closely resembling the "west coast" style passing game and ran the ball more. With receivers like Nix and Cruz that have the ability to make things happen after the catch, you don't have to go downfield so often to make the big plays.

jakegibbs
12-27-2011, 10:52 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>

My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake.

What the heck are you looking at?

1. Drew Brees NO 5087
2. Tom Brady NE 4897
3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643
4. Eli Manning NYG 4587

Vtgmenfan89
12-27-2011, 10:53 AM
Oh I also forgot to mention the 3rd down play calling.. I know Eli is the one throwing the balls, but the plays are still long developing plays that are either way to far on a 3rd and short, or way or short on a 3rd and long. We never seem to get those right, and that falls on KG as much as Eli. Saints offense was 8/8 on 3rd down at one point last night and that's just when i stopped counting..... Ibrees is obviously one of the best right now, but Jesus why cant we take a leaf out of that offense sometimes and just simply be more efficient at staying on the field? Our defense looks even worse than they play sometimes because they're on the field forever. Webster jpp and rolle all took over 100 snaps on d in jets game...we're lucky no one is on IR after that game. Pathetic! I like the big plays this offense generates but we take shots at all the wrong times more often that not.

GameTime
12-27-2011, 10:57 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>


My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake. What the heck are you looking at? 1. Drew Brees NO 5087 2. Tom Brady NE 4897 3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643 4. Eli Manning NYG 4587</P>


I plainly stated I am not looking at stats. I am looking at the QBs ....how they play....they passes they make....their athleticism. IMO they are all better QBs then Eli. Not just this year but overall. </P>


What am I looking at.?? I am looking at better QBs.....period. </P>


As I stated I love Eli. I love Eli as a NYG and I have since day 1. </P>


I dont give a **** how they pay him. I always think he can get the job done. BUT....I also dont think he is the best QB out there. I think he is top 5 or so. But there is not one thing wrong with me saying that Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady are better. Because quite simply....they are....</P>

jakegibbs
12-27-2011, 11:00 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>


My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake. What the heck are you looking at? 1. Drew Brees NO 5087 2. Tom Brady NE 4897 3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643 4. Eli Manning NYG 4587</P>


I plainly stated I am not looking at stats. I am looking at the QBs ....how they play....they passes they make....their athleticism. IMO they are all better QBs then Eli. Not just this year but overall. </P>


What am I looking at.?? I am looking at better QBs.....period. </P>


As I stated I love Eli. I love Eli as a NYG and I have since day 1. </P>


I dont give a **** how they pay him. I always think he can get the job done. BUT....I also dont think he is the best QB out there. I think he is top 5 or so. But there is not one thing wrong with me saying that Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady are better. Because quite simply....they are....</P>

Eli has a faster 40 time than Brady & I think ties Breez if you don't believe me look it up so there goes your more athletic QB right out the you know what.

burier
12-27-2011, 11:09 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>

Strongly disagree.

I think there's a legit argument for all of those guys but I'd really only entertain arguments for Rogers and big brother being better but even Rogers needed a run and some help to get into the playoffs last year.

I live in Boston and I get a fair dose of Tom Brady and he's overrated. Always has been. He's a system QB who shines due to getting the best pass protection of any QB in recent memory. He looks the like a Legend when he gets to stand in the pocket all day. Otherwise he's very very very ordinary. Eli makes throws with people in his face and falling on top of him that Brady just cannot make.

Not mention we've seen Eli and Brady on the same field three times now and Brady has yet to show anything to suggest he's head and shoulders better than Eli. Do you believe ESPN over your own eyes???

You said you don't care about stats and that's fine but Eli's numbers from last season (Ya know the season where Eli was not named even a top 100 player in the League and Brees was a named a top 5 Quarterback) Are very similar to Brees's numbers and that's with Eli playing with a revolving door at oline and reciever, outdoors, in the NFC East. Eli to me is more clutch and a better verticle thrower of the football than Drew Brees (Not to mention you're gonna be hard pressed to find anyone who would call KGs offense as good as Sean Paytons from a scheme standpoint)

Why does no one consider quality of opponent in these debates???

Now Rogers and Big Brother are great players but Eli has shown that he's the most clutch player in the league and that not just this season. That's over his career.

I'd say that all of those Qb's do certain things better than Eli but I'd rebuke anyone who's gonna tell me that there's someone who's out of Eli's class

gradstang
12-27-2011, 11:10 AM
eli might not be better than those 4 but he s better than the other 27.

Big Blue 418
12-27-2011, 11:11 AM
Lets more than half of bree's games are in domes or warm weather

G-Man67
12-27-2011, 11:12 AM
what am i missing?



the problems with the O all seem totally physical to me



it took the o-line more than half the year to block anyone



our WRs drop balls that pee-wee football players could catch with their eyes closed



Jacobs is old (in RB years) and Bradshaw is broken, so even in those rare instances where a hole does appear, they can't always exploit it



and despite all that, Eli has still managed to keep our offense statistically near the top of the league and i will admit that it is a bit of smoke and mirrors, since their are offenses ranked behind us that have been more efficient and consistent



so i'm just not seeing a big problem at QB or OC and to your point ... if QBs struggle in new systems and we won a Super Bowl in this system, then why is everyone so anxious to change everything ... how bout we just block, catch and run better ???

stormblue
12-27-2011, 11:34 AM
what am i missing?



the problems with the O all seem totally physical to me



it took the o-line more than half the year to block anyone



our WRs drop balls that pee-wee football players could catch with their eyes closed



Jacobs is old (in RB years) and Bradshaw is broken, so even in those rare instances where a hole does appear, they can't always exploit it



and despite all that, Eli has still managed to keep our offense statistically near the top of the league and i will admit that it is a bit of smoke and mirrors, since their are offenses ranked behind us that have been more efficient and consistent



so i'm just not seeing a big problem at QB or OC and to your point ... if QBs struggle in new systems and we won a Super Bowl in this system, then why is everyone so anxious to change everything ... how bout we just block, catch and run better ???

from a pure football common sense standpoint i can absolutely see the the logic in what you say.....
but honestly....it just doesn't overcome my disdain for Gilbride's lack of knowledge of
the short passing game.

GameTime
12-27-2011, 11:39 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>


My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake. What the heck are you looking at? 1. Drew Brees NO 5087 2. Tom Brady NE 4897 3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643 4. Eli Manning NYG 4587</P>


I plainly stated I am not looking at stats. I am looking at the QBs ....how they play....they passes they make....their athleticism. IMO they are all better QBs then Eli. Not just this year but overall. </P>


What am I looking at.?? I am looking at better QBs.....period. </P>


As I stated I love Eli. I love Eli as a NYG and I have since day 1. </P>


I dont give a **** how they pay him. I always think he can get the job done. BUT....I also dont think he is the best QB out there. I think he is top 5 or so. But there is not one thing wrong with me saying that Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady are better. Because quite simply....they are....</P>


Eli has a faster 40 time than Brady &amp; I think ties Breez if you don't believe me look it up so there goes your more athletic QB right out the you know what.</P>


Stats..like I said are ****..</P>


Watch Eli run...I know you have. He is a spaz. If you think for one second that Eli is more athletic than Brees then you are talking out of...you know what. LOL</P>


I am not trying to convince you that what I say is right. Its just how I see it. </P>


</P>

GameTime
12-27-2011, 11:45 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>


Strongly disagree. I think there's a legit argument for all of those guys but I'd really only entertain arguments for Rogers and big brother being better but even Rogers needed a run and some help to get into the playoffs last year. I live in Boston and I get a fair dose of Tom Brady and he's overrated. Always has been. He's a system QB who shines due to getting the best pass protection of any QB in recent memory. He looks the like a Legend when he gets to stand in the pocket all day. Otherwise he's very very very ordinary. Eli makes throws with people in his face and falling on top of him that Brady just cannot make. Not mention we've seen Eli and Brady on the same field three times now and Brady has yet to show anything to suggest he's head and shoulders better than Eli. Do you believe ESPN over your own eyes??? You said you don't care about stats and that's fine but Eli's numbers from last season (Ya know the season where Eli was not named even a top 100 player in the League and Brees was a named a top 5 Quarterback) Are very similar to Brees's numbers and that's with Eli playing with a revolving door at oline and reciever, outdoors, in the NFC East. Eli to me is more clutch and a better verticle thrower of the football than Drew Brees (Not to mention you're gonna be hard pressed to find anyone who would call KGs offense as good as Sean Paytons from a scheme standpoint) Why does no one consider quality of opponent in these debates??? Now Rogers and Big Brother are great players but Eli has shown that he's the most clutch player in the league and that not just this season. That's over his career. I'd say that all of those Qb's do certain things better than Eli but I'd rebuke anyone who's gonna tell me that there's someone who's out of Eli's class</P>


First off we can disagree and thats totally cool. I did say I dismiss stats to a degree. If you want to use stats thats fine. What I am doing is over simplifying the point. I wont add difficulty of schedual or domes or weather or any of that ****. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli, IMO and thats it. I think they all have better accuracy and they protect the ball better on an attempt to interception ratio. If Eli is is fifth on that list of top QBsthan that in itself is incredible. </P>


I didnt say they were WAY better or Eli is the 32nd out of 32 Qbs. I am just stating they are overall better QBs. Nothing wrong with that. </P>

TroyArcher
12-27-2011, 11:48 AM
Lets more than half of bree's games are in domes or warm weather</P>


</P>


Great point. Brees is very good but check his stats outside the Dome. </P>

rebelfan1966
12-27-2011, 11:49 AM
Imagine where we would be right now if our O-Line was good. If they were knocking people off the ball, opening up running lanes for BJ and Bradshaw. If they were giving Eli more time to pass the ball on a more consistent basis. </P>


I am convinced our team is loaded with talent. We could have sewn up the NFC East a couple of weeks back.... and we could have easily won 12 or more games this year.....</P>


Hereare ourkey problems...</P>


Our O-line has been below standard all season long. This is due to injuries, shuffling people around, and just trying to make do with what we have.</P>


Our Defensive secondary has been anothe patch work project all season long. We continue to look confused and allow too many third and long conversions and big plays down field. Again, the injury bug hurt us early.... and our coaches did little to try and find personel to bring in and give us some relief. Also, when so many people are so confused, so often.... the DC is primarily responsible.</P>


Our D-line has not been able to get pressure on the QB as in years past. Osi has been out most of the season, Tuck has been struggling for whatever reason, and JPP has been our only consistent bright spot on the line all year long. I don't think Osi will be wearing blue next year. Hopefully Tuck is starting to get his feet back under him now.... </P>


I don't know what it is with injuries on this team... but the amount of knee and ankle problems we seem to have is of great concern. Is it a strength and conditioning issue? Is it a turf issue? I don't know, but when we can't even play our first regular season game without key season ending injuries.... we have a problem. I would say it is just a fluke, that all teams have the same problem... but I don't it is a fluke. </P>


I honestly think this team could be a dynasty.... we have some great players, a goodQB, and a good Head Coach.</P>


We will need to look at our DC at the end of this season. I would say his head is the first one on the chopping block. TC and Gildbride are probably not going anywhere. That is fine, provided we can put a stingy defense on the field. </P>


We have to sure up our O-line, LBers, and D Secondary. Obviously this can't all be accomplished in the draft. We are going to have to look at Free Agency. </P>

Tony Bruno
12-27-2011, 11:51 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>

My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake.

What the heck are you looking at?

1. Drew Brees NO 5087
2. Tom Brady NE 4897
3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643
4. Eli Manning NYG 4587

Exactly my point... To have a QB in those top names and we are trying to get into the playoffs due to bad coaching... I never say
good playcall" with the Giants like I do when any of the others are playing... Our OC is holding this team back.. Its way to predictable and spotty...

I dot car about Elis numbers... Look at this teams production as a whole and the O has had the most time under their belts... They should be knocking it out of the park 50-60% of the time they get the ball... (like the other guys are)

G-Man67
12-27-2011, 11:54 AM
from a pure football common sense standpoint i can absolutely see the the logic in what you say.....
but honestly....it just doesn't overcome my disdain for Gilbride's lack of knowledge of
the short passing game.

it's the stache :)

Tony Bruno
12-27-2011, 11:56 AM
I would garentee that if Eli played for any of those other OCs our team would lead the NFC East every year... Our players are just as talented (maybe more ) pound for pound in the key positions...

KK is the main problem despite any stats... They guy closes his eyes and picks a play....

burier
12-27-2011, 11:58 AM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


*</P>


Strongly disagree. I think there's a legit argument for all of those guys but I'd really only entertain arguments for Rogers and big brother being better but even Rogers needed a run and some help to get into the playoffs last year. I live in Boston and I get a fair dose of Tom Brady and he's overrated. Always has been. He's a system QB who shines due to getting the best pass protection of any QB in recent memory. He looks the like a Legend when he gets to stand in the pocket all day. Otherwise he's very very very ordinary. Eli makes throws with people in his face and falling on top of him that Brady just cannot make. Not mention we've seen Eli and Brady on the same field three times now and Brady has yet to show anything to suggest he's head and shoulders better than Eli. Do you believe ESPN over your own eyes??? You said you don't care about stats and that's fine but Eli's numbers from last season (Ya know the season where Eli was not named even a top 100 player in the League and Brees was a named a top 5 Quarterback) Are very similar to Brees's numbers and that's with Eli playing with a revolving door at oline and reciever, outdoors, in the NFC East. Eli to me is more clutch and a better verticle thrower of the football than Drew Brees (Not to mention you're gonna be hard pressed to find anyone who would call KGs offense as good as Sean Paytons from a scheme standpoint) Why does no one consider quality of opponent in these debates??? Now Rogers and Big Brother are great players but Eli has shown that he's the most clutch player in the league and that not just this season. That's over his career. I'd say that all of those Qb's do certain things better than Eli but I'd rebuke anyone who's gonna tell me that there's someone who's out of Eli's class</P>


First off we can disagree and thats totally cool. I did say I dismiss stats to a degree. If you want to use stats thats fine. What I am doing is over simplifying the point. I wont add difficulty of schedual or domes or weather or any of that ****. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli, IMO and thats it. I think they all have better accuracy and they protect the ball better on an attempt to interception ratio. If Eli is is fifth on that list of top QBs*than that in itself is incredible. </P>


I didnt say* they were WAY better or Eli is the 32nd out of 32 Qbs. I am just stating they are overall better QBs. Nothing wrong with that. </P>

Ha, Yeah its fine to disagree. I'm not trying to BBQ you if you're not prepared to say Eli Manning is the best QB in the league. (I acknowledge my wording may make me seem more fired up than I am. Pay me no mind) If you told me that we'd draft Eli and he'd become a top 5 QB i'd be more than excited.

To me Eli doesn't have the best footwork, strongest most accuate arm but he's still the best because in moments when he need to bring those aspect of his game to that higher level he can. Its like he has a reserve or an inner-power he can call on. Its something that I just don't see, or don't see as regularly from other QBs as I see with Eli.

I just happen to think that

Tony Bruno
12-27-2011, 12:04 PM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


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Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


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Strongly disagree. I think there's a legit argument for all of those guys but I'd really only entertain arguments for Rogers and big brother being better but even Rogers needed a run and some help to get into the playoffs last year. I live in Boston and I get a fair dose of Tom Brady and he's overrated. Always has been. He's a system QB who shines due to getting the best pass protection of any QB in recent memory. He looks the like a Legend when he gets to stand in the pocket all day. Otherwise he's very very very ordinary. Eli makes throws with people in his face and falling on top of him that Brady just cannot make. Not mention we've seen Eli and Brady on the same field three times now and Brady has yet to show anything to suggest he's head and shoulders better than Eli. Do you believe ESPN over your own eyes??? You said you don't care about stats and that's fine but Eli's numbers from last season (Ya know the season where Eli was not named even a top 100 player in the League and Brees was a named a top 5 Quarterback) Are very similar to Brees's numbers and that's with Eli playing with a revolving door at oline and reciever, outdoors, in the NFC East. Eli to me is more clutch and a better verticle thrower of the football than Drew Brees (Not to mention you're gonna be hard pressed to find anyone who would call KGs offense as good as Sean Paytons from a scheme standpoint) Why does no one consider quality of opponent in these debates??? Now Rogers and Big Brother are great players but Eli has shown that he's the most clutch player in the league and that not just this season. That's over his career. I'd say that all of those Qb's do certain things better than Eli but I'd rebuke anyone who's gonna tell me that there's someone who's out of Eli's class</P>


First off we can disagree and thats totally cool. I did say I dismiss stats to a degree. If you want to use stats thats fine. What I am doing is over simplifying the point. I wont add difficulty of schedual or domes or weather or any of that ****. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli, IMO and thats it. I think they all have better accuracy and they protect the ball better on an attempt to interception ratio. If Eli is is fifth on that list of top QBs*than that in itself is incredible. </P>


I didnt say* they were WAY better or Eli is the 32nd out of 32 Qbs. I am just stating they are overall better QBs. Nothing wrong with that. </P>

Ha, Yeah its fine to disagree. I'm not trying to BBQ you if you're not prepared to say Eli Manning is the best QB in the league. (I acknowledge my wording may make me seem more fired up than I am. Pay me no mind) If you told me that we'd draft Eli and he'd become a top 5 QB i'd be more than excited.

To me Eli doesn't have the best footwork, strongest most accuate arm but he's still the best because in moments when he need to bring those aspect of his game to that higher level he can. Its like he has a reserve or an inner-power he can call on. Its something that I just don't see, or don't see as regularly from other QBs as I see with Eli.

I just happen to think that

I guess the difference those other QBs have handled business that they are rarley asked to do it more often... Eli does the best in no huddle... When do we do no huddle... Only in the 2 min warnings... To me a coaches job is to pu tthe players int he best senario and it often isnt done until Eli has to pull out another miracle....

KG is a bum!!!

little blue
12-27-2011, 12:04 PM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


*</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


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My God people where have you been all year? Your're splitting hairs here. Eli is right up their with the top 3. He's only 56 little yards behing the NFL MVP for Christ's sake. What the heck are you looking at? 1. Drew Brees NO 5087 2. Tom Brady NE 4897 3. Aaron Rodgers GB 4643 4. Eli Manning NYG 4587</P>


I plainly stated I am not looking at stats. I am looking at the QBs ....how they play....they passes they make....their athleticism. IMO they are all better QBs then Eli. Not just this year but overall. </P>


What am I looking at.?? I am looking at better QBs.....period. </P>


As I stated I love Eli. I love Eli as a NYG and I have since day 1. </P>


I dont give a **** how they pay him. I always think he can get the job done. BUT....I also dont think he is the best QB out there. I think he is top 5 or so. But there is not one thing wrong with me saying that Brees, Rodgers, Peyton, and Brady are better. Because quite simply....they are....</P>


Eli has a faster 40 time than Brady & I think ties Breez if you don't believe me look it up so there goes your more athletic QB right out the you know what.</P>


Stats..like I said are ****..</P>


Watch Eli run...I know you have. He is a spaz.* If you think for one second that Eli is more athletic than Brees then you are talking out of...you know what. LOL</P>


I am not trying to convince you that what I say is right. Its just how I see it. </P>


*</P>HOW DARE U CROSS ELI !!! IM SO MAD AT YOU.

G-Man67
12-27-2011, 12:08 PM
and i also don't get people saying "LOADED WITH TALENT"

when i look at our O i'm not seeing loads of talent ... sure, we have enough talent, but not an over-abundance



our most talented players outside of Eli are Nicks and Bradshaw ... Nicks has all of a sudden lost some confidence and is dropping the ball at an alarming rate ... i don't think that is coaching ... if you had hands the size of Nicks, you would go the rest of your life never dropping or spilling anything



and Bradshaw has more screws in him then my home computer



our TEs are less famous than the 5th Kardashian sibling



and all joking aside, it all starts up front and nobody can say that we have been good there, whereas, with O'Hara and Seubert we were pretty solid at run blocking ... the Baas signing has not worked out ... the Beattty LT, Diehl LG thing did not work out ... K-Mac is not getting any younger ... i'll tell ya, Boothe has been an unsung hero

JJC7301
12-27-2011, 12:13 PM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


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+1. They are better and always will be, but that doesn't mean that Eli isn't a GREAT QB. He'll be owning every Giant QB record by the time he retires, and will probably make the HOF (especially if he makes another SB).</P>

GameTime
12-27-2011, 12:28 PM
That guys like Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Peyton have been in the same system for many many years (as far as OC and QB) and that thats the reasont hey are all so good... So my question is hasnt Eli been in the same position and system??? I really think KK is a bad OC... Maybe he would be fit for another team but I dont think he is good for us... He has had the same faces year in and out and we still cant get a play off before 1 sec on the play clock and the inconsistancy is uust terrible... Our O should be way more coinsistant with t he amount of time they have been in the same system.... #period</P>


</P>


Bress, Rodgers, Brady, and Peyton are better QBs than Eli is. I love Eli and I dont bash him but I oint make excuses for him either. I am also not ashamed to say the above QBs are just better....which IMO they are. I dont give a **** about stats or all the the other bull****. You watch these guys play and they are better then Eli both with consistency and skill. Thats just the way it is. </P>


</P>


</P>


+1. They are better and always will be, but that doesn't mean that Eli isn't a GREAT QB. He'll be owning every Giant QB record by the time he retires, and will probably make the HOF (especially if he makes another SB).</P>


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yep...thats why I said in another response if Eli's name is mentioned with those other 4 then thats great in and of itself. </P>


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Tony Bruno
12-27-2011, 12:58 PM
I afraid to say but you could put any of those QBs on our team and Id bet KK knocks thier talent down too...

The only difference I I think those other guys wouldnt let KK call such a crappy game without saying something....

Eli would be amazing with any of the top OCs... They just call better games...

I was watching Alex Smith when he played the Steelers... The kid did nothing special, managed the game, made all the throws and they beat a D like the Steelers... We dont have to have a miracle (much like Eli is forced to do to often)...
We need to call higher percentage plays, run the ball more, and get the ball out of Elis hands with quicker routes...