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NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 06:57 AM
With all the recent signings for the Slot Receivers for the upcoming season, the market value for them has been clearly established at approximately 6 million dollars per year. Here is the breakdown of the top three signings.


1. Wes Welker: 12 million over 2 years with undisclosed incentives for up to an additional 1 million per year. The whole 2 year contract is guaranteed.
2. Danny Amendola: 30 million over 5 years. 10 million guaranteed.

These guys are all starting slot receivers who have similar or in Welker's case better numbers than Cruz, and if Cruz thinks he will get way more than them he is dreaming. Pro football is business and the market value has been established. So my message to Victor Cruz is very simple: IF THE GIANTS OFFERED YOU A DEAL WORTH 6 MILLION PER YEAR SIGN THAT PAPERWORK SOON BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU ARE GETTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GO SHOPPING.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 07:03 AM
Without knowing what the Giants offered Cruz, if I has to make an educated guess, I would think their offer is very similar if not identical because while the Giants are conservative in paying they don't low-ball their players.

titwio
03-14-2013, 07:06 AM
Hartline is not their slot receiver....Davone Bess is.

You should have included Percy Harvin on your list....that's somewhere more in neighborhood of what Cruz will want just based on his production and the fact both are the premier guys in the slot. Welker got shafted cause he's older and not in his prime.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 07:10 AM
My mistake. Harvin is more than just a slot. He is is used in other variations.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 07:11 AM
Hartline is not their slot receiver....Davone Bess is.

You should have included Percy Harvin on your list....that's somewhere more in neighborhood of what Cruz will want just based on his production and the fact both are the premier guys in the slot. Welker got shafted cause he's older and not in his prime.
My mistake. you are correct. Anyway the point still remains.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 07:13 AM
Hartline is not their slot receiver....Davone Bess is.

You should have included Percy Harvin on your list....that's somewhere more in neighborhood of what Cruz will want just based on his production and the fact both are the premier guys in the slot. Welker got shafted cause he's older and not in his prime.
I corrected my post. Thanks

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 07:17 AM
With all the recent signings for the Slot Receivers for the upcoming season, the market value for them has been clearly established at approximately 6 million dollars per year. Here is the breakdown of the top three signings.


1. Wes Welker: 12 million over 2 years with undisclosed incentives for up to an additional 1 million per year. The whole 2 year contract is guaranteed.
2. Danny Amendola: 30 million over 5 years. 10 million guaranteed.

These guys are all starting slot receivers who have similar or in Welker's case better numbers than Cruz, and if Cruz thinks he will get way more than them he is dreaming. Pro football is business and the market value has been established. So my message to Victor Cruz is very simple: IF THE GIANTS OFFERED YOU A DEAL WORTH 6 MILLION PER YEAR SIGN THAT PAPERWORK SOON BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU ARE GETTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GO SHOPPING.

This sets the floor. But I see Cruz as better than both Welker and Amendola and he sure has more potential than either. But what will determine this in the end is what, if any, offer sheets Cruz might get.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 07:19 AM
Hartline is not their slot receiver....Davone Bess is.

You should have included Percy Harvin on your list....that's somewhere more in neighborhood of what Cruz will want just based on his production and the fact both are the premier guys in the slot. Welker got shafted cause he's older and not in his prime.
Percy Harvin's contract is 67 million over 6 years but only 14.5 million is guaranteed. Also he is used in other variations other than a pure slot receiver.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 07:22 AM
This sets the floor. But I see Cruz as better than both Welker and Amendola and he sure has more potential than either. But what will determine this in the end is what, if any, offer sheets Cruz might get.
Agreed. This is why Cruz has to think hard about any deals offered to him. Also he will have Eli as his QB with a good complement of Receivers. That has to be factored in because he can never be a Number 1 Receiver if he goes elsewhere and he wont get Eli and now Brady or Peyton throwing him the ball.

titwio
03-14-2013, 07:24 AM
Percy Harvin's contract is 67 million over 6 years but only 14.5 million is guaranteed. Also he is used in other variations other than a pure slot receiver.

Just saying Cruz is more in the class of Percy in terms of being premier at their position. Welker will be 32 in a month or so and is not in his prime but still probably deserved more than 6per. Giving Cruz the same money as Brian Hartline and Danny Amendola is kind of a slap in the face to Cruz considering his production trumps those guys.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 07:59 AM
Agreed. This is why Cruz has to think hard about any deals offered to him. Also he will have Eli as his QB with a good complement of Receivers. That has to be factored in because he can never be a Number 1 Receiver if he goes elsewhere and he wont get Eli and now Brady or Peyton throwing him the ball.

Something went seriously wrong in the Cruz camp for him to change agents at this point in time. I don't have a clue what that was, and we may never know for sure, but I think it's safe to speculate that he was not being well served by his former agent. He will soon have an agent that has a pretty good reputation and, more importantly, a good, mutually respectful, working relationship with Jerry Reese. Tom Condon will give Cruz his best effort and, hopefully, advice.

I think Cruz has enough talent to be successful wherever he might go. I don't disagree that staying here would be his best option, but I don't buy into the majority opinion that Eli made Cruz who he is. They have a synchronization that had to be developed, as Eli also has with Nicks and Hixon. Cruz is a smart receiver who makes things happen after the catch.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 07:59 AM
Percy Harvin's contract is 67 million over 6 years but only 14.5 million is guaranteed. Also he is used in other variations other than a pure slot receiver.

Cruz is not a pure slot receiver. In 2 WR sets he on the outside opposite, usually, Nicks.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 08:01 AM
Just saying Cruz is more in the class of Percy in terms of being premier at their position. Welker will be 32 in a month or so and is not in his prime but still probably deserved more than 6per. Giving Cruz the same money as Brian Hartline and Danny Amendola is kind of a slap in the face to Cruz considering his production trumps those guys.

If Cruz gets an offer sheet form another team, I can see the Giants going up to $8M but not higher than that. I also think they can make the guarantee a little bigger to keep the annual down.

giantsfam04
03-14-2013, 08:08 AM
5 yr 40 mil 15 guaranteed I think is a fair deal for both sides. After this deal is will be 31 and barring any serious injury he could get another payday after the contract is up. Also throw in escalators if and when the cap increases but I am just a fan like all of us so what do I know.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 08:11 AM
5 yr 40 mil 15 guaranteed I think is a fair deal for both sides. After this deal is will be 31 and barring any serious injury he could get another payday after the contract is up. Also throw in escalators if and when the cap increases but I am just a fan like all of us so what do I know.

That guarantee might be a bit low, but not a bad package

BlueJayC
03-14-2013, 08:18 AM
All that has been roughly established (not in stone) is the salary range for starting WR's in this year's market. $6 mil/year is the cellar as others have side and so far Wallace's $13 mil/year is the high end. Cruz has the ability to be a #1, #2 or slot guy so don't try and pigeonhole his salary on position alone.

IMO Cruz can arguably ask for $10/mil+ a year if not more.......

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 08:18 AM
With all the recent signings for the Slot Receivers for the upcoming season, the market value for them has been clearly established at approximately 6 million dollars per year. Here is the breakdown of the top three signings.


1. Wes Welker: 12 million over 2 years with undisclosed incentives for up to an additional 1 million per year. The whole 2 year contract is guaranteed.
2. Danny Amendola: 30 million over 5 years. 10 million guaranteed.

These guys are all starting slot receivers who have similar or in Welker's case better numbers than Cruz, and if Cruz thinks he will get way more than them he is dreaming. Pro football is business and the market value has been established. So my message to Victor Cruz is very simple: IF THE GIANTS OFFERED YOU A DEAL WORTH 6 MILLION PER YEAR SIGN THAT PAPERWORK SOON BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU ARE GETTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GO SHOPPING.

The problem is that Cruz isn't a slot receiver. He's USED in the slot a lot, but most of his big plays have come from him on the outside. One thing Cruz has, that neither Welker nor Amendola do, is that he's a home run threat.

His agent would be quick to point this out (just as quick as interested teams would try to label him as "only" a slot receiver).

And let's understand that Wes Welker took less money to go to the Broncos (supposedly he was offered 2 years / $16M by the Titans) and the Patriots are notorious for low-balling their talent (reportedly 2 years / $10M offer from them).

And Amendola has a pretty severe injury history of being frail (not exactly a good thing to be as a slot receiver) and I'm sure that played into the contract once the details of that comes out (I'm sure it's fairly back loaded with a ton of injury clauses).

All things Tom Condon will be explaining to various suitors.

If I were to guess, I'd say Cruz is an $8M a year guy looking for $10-12M a year (and probably not going to get it).

However, yesterday was a very good day for us in terms of keeping Cruz :D

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 08:21 AM
All that has been roughly established (not in stone) is the salary range for starting WR's in this year's market. $6 mil/year is the cellar as others have side and so far Wallace's $13 mil/year is the high end. Cruz has the ability to be a #1, #2 or slot guy so don't try and pigeonhole his salary on position alone.

IMO Cruz can arguably ask for $10/mil+ a year if not more.......

I don't think more than $8M with the Giants. Let's see if he gets any offer sheets next week.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 08:25 AM
I don't think more than $8M with the Giants. Let's see if he gets any offer sheets next week.

I agree and unless the Vikings pony up, I don't see Cruz getting any offer sheets from other teams.

giantsfam04
03-14-2013, 08:28 AM
That guarantee might be a bit low, but not a bad package

18

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 08:32 AM
That guarantee might be a bit low, but not a bad package

Not if their intention is to try to keep Nicks as well.

Although I'd have low balled Cruz and guaranteed more, and offered Nicks more, and guaranteed less (considering the injury history of both).

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 08:32 AM
Cruz is not a pure slot receiver. In 2 WR sets he on the outside opposite, usually, Nicks.
That is true, but IMO he is best as a true Slot Receiver. I believe he best utilizes his talents over the middle and gets more separation than as a #2.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 08:35 AM
That is true, but IMO he is best as a true Slot Receiver. I believe he best utilizes his talents over the middle and gets more separation than as a #2.

The only reason anyone knows of Cruz is because of his play on the outside.

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 08:39 AM
I think 8 million over 5 years is more than fair especially if the guarantee money is between 15-20 million. he is not a #!. He's a slot or #2. For us he would be a slot. He has to factor everything in and when he does he will resign with us whatever that number ends up being. Rumors all over websites I look at stories that he was being offered anywhere from 6-8 million a year. Cant verify, but they don't seem far off

bigblue58
03-14-2013, 09:27 AM
With all the recent signings for the Slot Receivers for the upcoming season, the market value for them has been clearly established at approximately 6 million dollars per year. Here is the breakdown of the top three signings.


1. Wes Welker: 12 million over 2 years with undisclosed incentives for up to an additional 1 million per year. The whole 2 year contract is guaranteed.
2. Danny Amendola: 30 million over 5 years. 10 million guaranteed.

These guys are all starting slot receivers who have similar or in Welker's case better numbers than Cruz, and if Cruz thinks he will get way more than them he is dreaming. Pro football is business and the market value has been established. So my message to Victor Cruz is very simple: IF THE GIANTS OFFERED YOU A DEAL WORTH 6 MILLION PER YEAR SIGN THAT PAPERWORK SOON BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU ARE GETTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GO SHOPPING.


Cruz isn't going to settle for no 6 mil a year!
That's what pisses me off about these hypocrites......they scream about wanting to be paid what the established market value is for their position...........until it's lower than they thought it would be and then you see how quickly they abandon the whole ESTABLISHED MARKET VALUE argument and ignore it to change the narrative to justify why they suddenly don't care what the market value is dictating, because they think they're worth more.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 09:50 AM
I agree and unless the Vikings pony up, I don't see Cruz getting any offer sheets from other teams. Let's be clear, no offers is not a slam at Cruz. It is something rarely done and hasn't been done since 2003.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 09:53 AM
Cruz isn't going to settle for no 6 mil a year! That's what pisses me off about these hypocrites......they scream about wanting to be paid what the established market value is for their position...........until it's lower than they thought it would be and then you see how quickly they abandon the whole ESTABLISHED MARKET VALUE argument and ignore it to change the narrative to justify why they suddenly don't care what the market value is dictating, because they think they're worth more. $6M is the floor with the ceiling somewhere around $12M. Cruz is somewhere in between, probably around $8M.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 09:54 AM
Let's be clear, no offers is not a slam at Cruz. It is something rarely done and hasn't been done since 2003.

Exactly.

blueribbon
03-14-2013, 09:57 AM
Give him 7mil and all the soup he can eat.

bigblue58
03-14-2013, 10:01 AM
$6M is the floor with the ceiling somewhere around $12M. Cruz is somewhere in between, probably around $8M.

He won't settle for 8 mil a year either! He doesn't even consider himself a "slot" guy. He considers himself a top receiver and wants to be paid big timey Receiver dollars.

Ruttiger711
03-14-2013, 10:05 AM
He won't settle for 8 mil a year either! He doesn't even consider himself a "slot" guy. He considers himself a top receiver and wants to be paid big timey Receiver dollars.

Cruz's aspirations should be to have a career that Welker has had thus far and he's only making 6.

Hard to say 6m is the floor with Welker in that range.

jomo
03-14-2013, 10:05 AM
With all the recent signings for the Slot Receivers for the upcoming season, the market value for them has been clearly established at approximately 6 million dollars per year. Here is the breakdown of the top three signings.


1. Wes Welker: 12 million over 2 years with undisclosed incentives for up to an additional 1 million per year. The whole 2 year contract is guaranteed.
2. Danny Amendola: 30 million over 5 years. 10 million guaranteed.

These guys are all starting slot receivers who have similar or in Welker's case better numbers than Cruz, and if Cruz thinks he will get way more than them he is dreaming. Pro football is business and the market value has been established. So my message to Victor Cruz is very simple: IF THE GIANTS OFFERED YOU A DEAL WORTH 6 MILLION PER YEAR SIGN THAT PAPERWORK SOON BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU ARE GETTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GO SHOPPING.I get your point and more or less agree with it however there are so few teams with money to spend that it is hard to generalize. For example, if the only 2 teams with money to burn on a slot receiver are now out of the market, $6M may not be available anymore. The teams can only spend what they have and there are so few participants in the market that you will get wide and unusual swings.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 10:06 AM
Cruz's aspirations should be to have a career that Welker has had thus far and he's only making 6.

Hard to say 6m is the floor with Welker in that range.

Welker took less money to go to the Broncos (offered $8M/year by the Titans) and made $9.5M last year.

blueribbon
03-14-2013, 10:07 AM
Welker took less money to go to the Broncos (offered $8M/year by the Titans) and made $9.5M last year.

He wants that ring.

jomo
03-14-2013, 10:08 AM
I get your point and more or less agree with it however there are so few teams with money to spend that it is hard to generalize. For example, if the only 2 teams with money to burn on a slot receiver are now out of the market, $6M may not be available anymore. The teams can only spend what they have and there are so few participants in the market that you will get wide and unusual swings.It is also why some agents encourage their clients to sign quickly while there is still money around. I thought it odd that Canty would sign so quickly for a fraction of what he's made here over the past few years. The reason he did it was because if he waited, he might have to take even less as the cash dries up around the league.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 10:14 AM
He won't settle for 8 mil a year either! He doesn't even consider himself a "slot" guy. He considers himself a top receiver and wants to be paid big timey Receiver dollars. We have no idea what he will settle for.

Ruttiger711
03-14-2013, 10:21 AM
Welker took less money to go to the Broncos (offered $8M/year by the Titans) and made $9.5M last year.

Tells me he wants to get paid but doesnt want to sacrifice winning.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 10:22 AM
With all the recent signings for the Slot Receivers for the upcoming season, the market value for them has been clearly established at approximately 6 million dollars per year. Here is the breakdown of the top three signings. 1. Wes Welker: 12 million over 2 years with undisclosed incentives for up to an additional 1 million per year. The whole 2 year contract is guaranteed. 2. Danny Amendola: 30 million over 5 years. 10 million guaranteed. These guys are all starting slot receivers who have similar or in Welker's case better numbers than Cruz, and if Cruz thinks he will get way more than them he is dreaming. Pro football is business and the market value has been established. So my message to Victor Cruz is very simple: IF THE GIANTS OFFERED YOU A DEAL WORTH 6 MILLION PER YEAR SIGN THAT PAPERWORK SOON BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU ARE GETTING HERE OR ANYWHERE ELSE YOU GO SHOPPING. Amendola is not in Cruz's league and wasn't starter for a lot of games the last two years.

BuffyBlueII
03-14-2013, 10:33 AM
Agreed. This is why Cruz has to think hard about any deals offered to him. Also he will have Eli as his QB with a good complement of Receivers. That has to be factored in because he can never be a Number 1 Receiver if he goes elsewhere and he wont get Eli and now Brady or Peyton throwing him the ball.

He is not the #1 reciever here on NY Giants.

It is real good that the bar has been set for slot recievers. I don't see Victor Cruz getting more than Wes Welker or Danny Amendola. Hopefully JR signs VC for something like 24 million for 4 years with 7-8 guaranteed.

BuffyBlueII
03-14-2013, 10:37 AM
$6M is the floor with the ceiling somewhere around $12M. Cruz is somewhere in between, probably around $8M.

I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't veiw VC as being more valuable than Wes Welker or Danny Amendola. He may get a little bit more because he is young and NY Giants want to lock him up but if Wes Welker and Danny Amendola are earning 6 million per year than that is what VC should be earning. All this talk about Wes Welker not being in Victor Cruz' class and the real statement should be "Victor Cruz has put together two nice years and hopefully he can keep up the great work and then he can be considered in Wes Welkers class."

BuffyBlueII
03-14-2013, 10:40 AM
Welker took less money to go to the Broncos (offered $8M/year by the Titans) and made $9.5M last year.

I am glad that he did. Coupled with the Danny Amendola signing, maybe teams will wake up and price slot recievers accordingly. No way Victor Cruz should get more money than Wes Welker. 6 million per year is more than fair.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 10:48 AM
I am glad that he did. Coupled with the Danny Amendola signing, maybe teams will wake up and price slot recievers accordingly. No way Victor Cruz should get more money than Wes Welker. 6 million per year is more than fair. Cruz has far more potential than Welker. $6M is the floor.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 10:52 AM
I am glad that he did. Coupled with the Danny Amendola signing, maybe teams will wake up and price slot recievers accordingly. No way Victor Cruz should get more money than Wes Welker. 6 million per year is more than fair.

If Cruz signs a $6M offer, it would be one of the best FA signings of all time.

BlueJayC
03-14-2013, 10:55 AM
I've got a very bad feeling the Vikes will be making a substantial offer to Cruz......meaning $9 mil/year +........just an awful gut feeling.......could also be the cold pizza for breakfast.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 10:59 AM
Tells me he wants to get paid but doesnt want to sacrifice winning.

Tells me he wants out of NE and doesn't want to sacrifice winning.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 11:00 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't veiw VC as being more valuable than Wes Welker or Danny Amendola. He may get a little bit more because he is young and NY Giants want to lock him up but if Wes Welker and Danny Amendola are earning 6 million per year than that is what VC should be earning. All this talk about Wes Welker not being in Victor Cruz' class and the real statement should be "Victor Cruz has put together two nice years and hopefully he can keep up the great work and then he can be considered in Wes Welkers class." We will agree to disagree.


Over those two years, Cruz was the #5 WR.

Ruttiger711
03-14-2013, 11:10 AM
We will agree to disagree.Over those two years, Cruz was the #5 WR.#5 in what?In terms of yardage/catches I remember seeing Cruz at #5 in 2011 and #15 in 2012.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 11:13 AM
I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't veiw VC as being more valuable than Wes Welker or Danny Amendola. He may get a little bit more because he is young and NY Giants want to lock him up but if Wes Welker and Danny Amendola are earning 6 million per year than that is what VC should be earning. All this talk about Wes Welker not being in Victor Cruz' class and the real statement should be "Victor Cruz has put together two nice years and hopefully he can keep up the great work and then he can be considered in Wes Welkers class."

Cruz does everything Welker does PLUS he's a home run threat (Welker isn't) PLUS he's 5 years younger.

And he doesn't have an ACL on his resume either.

Cruz is all upside and no downside at this point in his career (unless you prefer the Tango to the Salsa).

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 11:14 AM
If Cruz signs a $6M offer, it would be one of the best FA signings of all time.

Cruz is entitled to a paycheck commensurate with his performance and skills. It will be something more than the floor of $6M.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 11:18 AM
#5 in what?In terms of yardage/catches I remember seeing Cruz at #5 in 2011 and #15 in 2012.


We will agree to disagree.


Over those two years, Cruz was the #5 WR.

Over the past two years, when you combine yardage, receptions, TDs, YAC, YPR, and RPG he is the #3 receiver in the league behind Wes Welker and Calvin Johnson.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 11:32 AM
Over the past two years, when you combine yardage, receptions, TDs, YAC, YPR, and RPG he is the #3 receiver in the league behind Wes Welker and Calvin Johnson.

I am sure Jerry Reese knows his value to the Giants, which is all that matters. I am also sure Tom Condon will showcase Victor's upside. Somewhere between those two positions Cruz will find a nice payday

dakotajoe
03-14-2013, 11:32 AM
Over the past two years, when you combine yardage, receptions, TDs, YAC, YPR, and RPG he is the #3 receiver in the league behind Wes Welker and Calvin Johnson.

Exactly. There are guys like Greg Jennings who have reportedly turned down 10 million a year (he's seeking 11mil while turning 30 next season) and his production is far lower than Cruz's. Add up the last two seasons combined and Jennings didn't produce what Cruz did in 2011 alone. Then there are guys like Percy Harvin who are getting 11+ mil a year and have NEVER had a 1000 yard receiving season.

If I where in Cruz's shoes I'd laugh at a 6 million offer, turn down 8mil, and realistically seek around 10mil a season for 5 years.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 11:36 AM
I am sure Jerry Reese knows his value to the Giants, which is all that matters. I am also sure Tom Condon will showcase Victor's upside. Somewhere between those two positions Cruz will find a nice payday

Indeed and I agree with your estimation on $7-8M a year.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 11:38 AM
Exactly. There are guys like Greg Jennings who have reportedly turned down 10 million a year (he's seeking 11mil while turning 30 next season) and his production is far lower than Cruz's. Add up the last two seasons combined and Jennings didn't produce what Cruz did in 2011 alone. Then there are guys like Percy Harvin who are getting 11+ mil a year and have NEVER had a 1000 yard receiving season.

If I where in Cruz's shoes I'd laugh at a 6 million offer, turn down 8mil, and realistically seek around 10mil a season for 5 years.

It's a big play league right now but that's the ironic part ... Cruz is a big play receiver.

Profiling is killing his career :D

If I were Cruz I'd settle for $7-8M a year to stay in NY (the endorsement difference more than making up the difference).

I do agree he's worth $10M+.

Jsilbs
03-14-2013, 11:44 AM
Bottom Line, he is a slot WR and the market is $6mm for the position. I understand, about Cruz being young, better stats, more of a deep threat. But at the end of the day, he is still a slot WR. Just Like Tackles get more than Guards, you position is key.

Now maybe Minn or the Rams are desperate and over pay with a $10mm contract and 1st round pick, but that is a steep price.

IMO, I could see the vikings doing it. They will have a new stadium to fill, and need talent. Jeff Fisher wont allow the Rams to pay that much ransom.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 11:53 AM
Bottom Line, he is a slot WR and the market is $6mm for the position. I understand, about Cruz being young, better stats, more of a deep threat. But at the end of the day, he is still a slot WR. Just Like Tackles get more than Guards, you position is key. Now maybe Minn or the Rams are desperate and over pay with a $10mm contract and 1st round pick, but that is a steep price. IMO, I could see the vikings doing it. They will have a new stadium to fill, and need talent. Jeff Fisher wont allow the Rams to pay that much ransom. First, Cruz is not just a slot receiver. In two WR sets he is on the outside opposite Nicks, usually. 2nd, $6M is the floor and the ceiling is up around $12M. Cruz will probably find his payday between $7-8.

The_ One
03-14-2013, 11:54 AM
Cruz is a product of Eli Manning, and having Nicks on the other side of the field, when Nicks went down so did Cruz's numbers, especially his vertical numbers, Cruz and his agents need to realize that he is NOT a number one receiver in this this league. You see, players like Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Megatron in Detroit, now those are legit number one receivers in this league, and I would put Hakeem Nicks slightly below those players. Now if Cruz wants to leave, well then he can leave, reminds me of all the uproar when Smith left, or Boss. People need to realize that without Eli none of these players would be doing what they are doing. Free agency has started and I do not see any team offering Cruz any big bucks, Jerry Reese and the Giants know what the market is for Cruz, and the market is what the Giants are willing to pay him, people need to remember that the rest of the NFL makes up the market for any given player, if you think the Giants and Jerry have not talked to other GM's you are not paying attention. Now is there teams that will OVERPAY a player to join their team, sure there is, there are teams that have no star power that will overpay someone so they can get people to buy their tickets, and the Giants are not one of them, on another note, no one has ever made more that ten million on the Giants except the QB, and that is the way it should be, again going back to Eli, if you all think that without Eli we would have two SB championships you are all in denial, Eli makes everyone around him better, not the other way around. If every one was on the same page as Eli on a game by game basis, we would be scary.

G-Men Surg.
03-14-2013, 11:58 AM
First, Cruz is not just a slot receiver. In two WR sets he is on the outside opposite Nicks, usually. 2nd, $6M is the floor and the ceiling is up around $12M. Cruz will probably find his payday between $7-8.
I sure hope so and think in my heart of hearts he will be OK with that amount.

Giant stuck in Texas
03-14-2013, 12:00 PM
Has anyone here taken in to consideration that just because Cruz isn't used as a #1 with the Giants, that he wouldn't be a used as #1 by another team and getting paid as such by said other team?

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 12:01 PM
Cruz is a product of Eli Manning, and having Nicks on the other side of the field, when Nicks went down so did Cruz's numbers, especially his vertical numbers, Cruz and his agents need to realize that he is NOT a number one receiver in this this league. You see, players like Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Megatron in Detroit, now those are legit number one receivers in this league, and I would put Hakeem Nicks slightly below those players. Now if Cruz wants to leave, well then he can leave, reminds me of all the uproar when Smith left, or Boss. People need to realize that without Eli none of these players would be doing what they are doing. Free agency has started and I do not see any team offering Cruz any big bucks, Jerry Reese and the Giants know what the market is for Cruz, and the market is what the Giants are willing to pay him, people need to remember that the rest of the NFL makes up the market for any given player, if you think the Giants and Jerry have not talked to other GM's you are not paying attention. Now is there teams that will OVERPAY a player to join their team, sure there is, there are teams that have no star power that will overpay someone so they can get people to buy their tickets, and the Giants are not one of them, on another note, no one has ever made more that ten million on the Giants except the QB, and that is the way it should be, again going back to Eli, if you all think that without Eli we would have two SB championships you are all in denial, Eli makes everyone around him better, not the other way around. If every one was on the same page as Eli on a game by game basis, we would be scary.

You do realize teams can't contact Cruz, right?


As for Eli making all of these players, does he also make them have bad seasons like he had in 2012?

jomo
03-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Has anyone here taken in to consideration that just because Cruz isn't used as a #1 with the Giants, that he wouldn't be a used as #1 by another team and getting paid as such by said other team?That is absolutely true which is why "markets" are dynamic. There is always an ebb and flow.

dakotajoe
03-14-2013, 12:02 PM
Eli makes everyone around him better, not the other way around. If every one was on the same page as Eli on a game by game basis, we would be scary.

It's generally agreed that QB is the most important position on the field.

The fact of the matter is the Eli had his best season by far with a healthy Nicks and Cruz on the field. Not with Plaxico, Shockey, Steve Smith, or any of the receivers they signed off the street in 2010. A healthy Nicks and Cruz makes for a dangerous team. Comparing Cruz to Boss isn't exactly giving Cruz a fair shake :)

Zaggs
03-14-2013, 12:07 PM
You do realize teams can't' contact Cruz, right?

Cruz has 3 years experience, he is therefore not an exclusive rights free agent so yes teams may contact him.

Giant stuck in Texas
03-14-2013, 12:09 PM
Cruz has 3 years experience, he is therefore not an exclusive rights free agent so yes teams may contact him.I think he was referring to the fact that Cruz switched agents and can not be contacted for 3days by doing such.

G-Men Surg.
03-14-2013, 12:10 PM
Has anyone here taken in to consideration that just because Cruz isn't used as a #1 with the Giants, that he wouldn't be a used as #1 by another team and getting paid as such by said other team?
Well said.

Zaggs
03-14-2013, 12:11 PM
I think he was referring to the fact that Cruz switched agents and can not be contacted for 3days by doing such.

O I C. Though today would be the 3rd day.

Giant stuck in Texas
03-14-2013, 12:11 PM
That is absolutely true which is why "markets" are dynamic. There is always an ebb and flow. I agree, I just think the majority aren't looking at the big picture.

Giant stuck in Texas
03-14-2013, 12:12 PM
O I C. Though today would be the 3rd day.Yes, your correct.

Zaggs
03-14-2013, 12:15 PM
Another thing not many seem to talk about. If Cruz gets paid as a #1 this year. What does Nicks get paid next year when he is a UFA (or headed for it)? Does he get paid as a #1 assuming a good 2013 season? Then the Giants could have 40+ million tied up in Cruz, Manning and Nicks in 2014, and 2015 with Manning needed to get paid/cut in 2016.

giantsfam04
03-14-2013, 01:02 PM
Here is what I think is going on with all this. First, the giants know what the market is for Cruz and will match any offer that stays between 8-9 mil a year and would probably guarantee him a bit more to compensate for the difference in yearly salary. The FO isn't going to put its best offer on the table until they know what another team is offering him, if any team is indeed going to make an offer. Why give your best offer first and risk overpaying when you can sit back and see what other teams are paying. Once all this is established they will ask some players to redo deals or just flat out release some guys. IMO he stays with a deal between 8-9 mil a year and 15-20 mil guaranteed.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 01:30 PM
Cruz has 3 years experience, he is therefore not an exclusive rights free agent so yes teams may contact him.

No, they can't. He is changing agents in case you haven't heard. He won't have his new agent on board until Saturday or Sunday and then he has to wait 72 hours before he can accept any offers.

giantsfam04
03-14-2013, 01:39 PM
I thought he had to wait 72 after the change

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 01:42 PM
I thought he had to wait 72 after the change

He won't have an agent until five days after he kicked his old agent to the curb. If that was Tuesday, he will have Condon as his agent on Sunday. After Condon is officially on board, they have to wait 72 hours to accept offers.

giantsfam04
03-14-2013, 01:44 PM
He won't have an agent until five days after he kicked his old agent to the curb. If that was Tuesday, he will have Codon as his agent on Sunday. After Condon is officially on board, they have to wait 72 hours to accept offers.

Why the five day wait, is that a league rule?

NYGiantsFan56
03-14-2013, 02:18 PM
It's very clear now that the market for all Receivers is between 6-12 million with 6 million being the base for Slot Receivers which Cruz will be here in New York. Looking at Cruz, I think its safe to say as others have said on this post that fair compensation to Cruz is between 7-8 million per year on a 5 year/40million deal with 18-20 guaranteed. If he turns that down then he's not thinking smart because with that contract he stays in a good system with ELI, Nicks, and Randle, where he will excel and he will also make good endorsement money in NYC. He won't make that in Minnesota. He has to take that all into consideration.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 03:19 PM
Why the five day wait, is that a league rule?

Yes.

RoanokeFan
03-14-2013, 03:22 PM
It's very clear now that the market for all Receivers is between 6-12 million with 6 million being the base for Slot Receivers which Cruz will be here in New York. Looking at Cruz, I think its safe to say as others have said on this post that fair compensation to Cruz is between 7-8 million per year on a 5 year/40million deal with 18-20 guaranteed. If he turns that down then he's not thinking smart because with that contract he stays in a good system with ELI, Nicks, and Randle, where he will excel and he will also make good endorsement money in NYC. He won't make that in Minnesota. He has to take that all into consideration.

He has a new agent coming on board. One with a ton of experience in general and who also has a mutually respectful and professional working relationship with Jerry Reese. Free agency always alters contract expectations and this season will be no different. Cruz changing agents is a sign that he wants someone who can work with Reese.

giantcarll
03-14-2013, 03:50 PM
Hartline is not their slot receiver....Davone Bess is.

You should have included Percy Harvin on your list....that's somewhere more in neighborhood of what Cruz will want just based on his production and the fact both are the premier guys in the slot. Welker got shafted cause he's older and not in his prime.

Cruz casnnopt do what Percy can do so he shouldnt get that kind of money.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 03:51 PM
Cruz casnnopt do what Percy can do so he shouldnt get that kind of money.

Induce migraines in everyone including himself?

Redeyejedi
03-14-2013, 03:58 PM
I thought Cruz should get in the neighborhood of 5 years 40 million .I thought it was a fair number for both. WR salaries have gotten ridiculous I think.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 03:59 PM
I thought Cruz should get 5 years 40 million was a fair number. WR salaries have gotten ridiculous

Agreed.

TheEnigma
03-14-2013, 04:02 PM
I thought Cruz should get in the neighborhood of 5 years 40 million .I thought it was a fair number for both. WR salaries have gotten ridiculous I think.

I wish I could run a 4.3 so Jeff Ireland would hand me a large contract too.

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 04:04 PM
I wish I could run a 4.3 so Jeff Ireland would hand me a large contract too.

If you could run a 4.3, he wouldn't be the only one trying to hand you a contract.

gmenfan0488
03-14-2013, 04:13 PM
I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't veiw VC as being more valuable than Wes Welker or Danny Amendola. He may get a little bit more because he is young and NY Giants want to lock him up but if Wes Welker and Danny Amendola are earning 6 million per year than that is what VC should be earning. All this talk about Wes Welker not being in Victor Cruz' class and the real statement should be "Victor Cruz has put together two nice years and hopefully he can keep up the great work and then he can be considered in Wes Welkers class."

I don't agree with you in the sense that Cruz isn't as valuable as Amendola. Cruz is FAR more valuable than Amendola because Amendola can't stay healthy

gmenfan0488
03-14-2013, 04:14 PM
I thought Cruz should get in the neighborhood of 5 years 40 million .I thought it was a fair number for both. WR salaries have gotten ridiculous I think.

Agreed. I think 7-8 Million a year for 5 years is a great deal for Cruz

hufcane
03-14-2013, 04:22 PM
He won't settle for 8 mil a year either! He doesn't even consider himself a "slot" guy. He considers himself a top receiver and wants to be paid big timey Receiver dollars.

if thats the case then nice knowing u--between nicks cruz and jpp something is going to have to give and it aint goin to be JPP so take your pick between nicks and cruz

HarlemGiant17
03-14-2013, 04:50 PM
The only reason anyone knows of Cruz is because of his play on the outside.

Thats not true at all, most of his big plays and All but one TD last year came out of the slot. Stats and consistancy is what get you paid in this league and for Cruz everything points to the slot. I think 6-7 million over 5 years is good

Kruunch
03-14-2013, 05:08 PM
Thats not true at all, most of his big plays and All but one TD last year came out of the slot. Stats and consistancy is what get you paid in this league and for Cruz everything points to the slot. I think 6-7 million over 5 years is good

It is true ... he'd have never made the roster if it wasn't for that Jets game in preseason two years ago, all of which was done on the outside.

And most of his big plays in 2011 were on the outside.