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View Full Version : So far, JR gets a B-



Morehead State
03-16-2013, 07:37 PM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????

GentleGiant
03-16-2013, 07:39 PM
All we really need for the o line is 1 player which will likely use the 1st round pick on. And Murphy is there in case Braden and hixon leave.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 07:39 PM
Louis Murphy is a much better signing than Dan Connor.

I think the fact that the Giants haven't cut Diehl tells us a lot about their confidence in Brewer taking over as the starting RT next season.

ShakeandBake
03-16-2013, 07:43 PM
All we really need for the o line is 1 player which will likely use the 1st rebound pick on. And Murphy is there in case Braden and hixon leave.

We need help across the board as far as the o-line in concerned, both in finding starters and depth. The only spot on the O-line where we are set is LT. We are stuck with Baas for now at center, other than that things are up in the air.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 07:43 PM
All we really need for the o line is 1 player which will likely use the 1st round pick on. And Murphy is there in case Braden and hixon leave.
We are deep at WR.
Nicks, Cruz, Randle, JJ.
Just seems like Murphy is a lack of prioritizing by JR. We need vet depth on the O line. Maybe JR is waiting for the market to shake out. But how much room do we have anymore. We've signed a lot of players.
Protecting our QB MUST be our #1 priority. getting to the other teams QB is #2.

drewz
03-16-2013, 07:45 PM
I give him a D-, this is barely a playoff team

but whatever, we'll see how the draft plays out

Flip Empty
03-16-2013, 07:45 PM
I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????
Waiting for the draft, I guess. FA OL tend to be pricey.


this is barely a playoff team
You could say the same about the 2011 team.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 07:48 PM
Our big OL pickup was resigning Beatty. Still a decent chance Boothe returns to the team. Lots of overpaid OL in this FA like Gosder Cherilius and Andy Levitre. Maybe they have faith in Cordle or Mosley at LG?

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 07:48 PM
Waiting for the draft, I guess. FA OL tend to be pricey.


You could say the same about the 2011 team.
Drafting for a starter on the O line? That's a risky strategy.

I do agree about our team however. We can be damned good right now. Just a little tweaking.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 07:51 PM
We are deep at WR.
Nicks, Cruz, Randle, JJ.
Just seems like Murphy is a lack of prioritizing by JR. We need vet depth on the O line. Maybe JR is waiting for the market to shake out. But how much room do we have anymore. We've signed a lot of players.
Protecting our QB MUST be our #1 priority. getting to the other teams QB is #2.

I don't disagree with you that we need OL help.

But I do disagree that we are "deep" at WR. Our #1 WR is always injured. Our #3 WR (according to your list) is a second year player who showed flashes last year but certainly isn't a slam dunk to have a huge year. And our #4 WR has done absolutely zero to date in the NFL. This is not a deep WR corps by any stretch.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 07:53 PM
I don't disagree with you that we need OL help.

But I do disagree that we are "deep" at WR. Our #1 WR is always injured. Our #3 WR (according to your list) is a second year player who showed flashes last year but certainly isn't a slam dunk to have a huge year. And our #4 WR has done absolutely zero to date in the NFL. This is not a deep WR corps by any stretch.
Well we have 3 very solid guys. The rest aren't any different than most other teams #'s 4 thru 6.
WR is just not a priority like O line is.

ShakeandBake
03-16-2013, 07:55 PM
I don't disagree with you that we need OL help.

But I do disagree that we are "deep" at WR. Our #1 WR is always injured. Our #3 WR (according to your list) is a second year player who showed flashes last year but certainly isn't a slam dunk to have a huge year. And our #4 WR has done absolutely zero to date in the NFL. This is not a deep WR corps by any stretch.

It's arguably the deepest unit on the team, and Nicks is far from always injured.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 07:56 PM
Well we have 3 very solid guys. The rest aren't any different that most other teams #'s 4 thru 6.
WR is just not a priority like O line is.

Not sure that you can call Randle very solid yet, and we do not have a TE who is a consistent receiving threat. Our WR corps needed another body and Reese got him.

I also don't think that one thing has anything to do with the other. It's not like we could have gotten any decent OL for the money we paid Murphy.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 07:58 PM
Murphy is a value signing that has good upside. Better speed than the rest of the WRs to stretch a defense. He's depth at the worst and maybe he can snag the #3 job at the best.

drewz
03-16-2013, 07:58 PM
You could say the same about the 2011 team.

LOL No

In 2011 we had a team who individually had strong performances in 2010.. We had what, 4 All Pros and 4 pro bowlers that year? This team was terrible last year and Jerry Reese hasn't done anything yet to address the poor performance of the offensive line, secondary, and front 7.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 07:58 PM
Not sure that you can call Randle very solid yet, and we do not have a TE who is a consistent receiving threat. Our WR corps needed another body and Reese got him.

I also don't think that one thing has anything to do with the other. It's not like we could have gotten any decent OL for the money we paid Murphy.
Its veteran depth I'm looking for at O line. Not top players. Right now, there are some young, untested players that we will be depending on to protect Eli this season.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't make me very comfortable at all.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 08:04 PM
Eric Winston is still out there and might have to come to terms on a low end deal. Brandon Moore, former G of the Jets, is lurking around too. Plenty of FA time remaining.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 08:07 PM
Eric Winston is still out there and might have to come to terms on a low end deal. Brandon Moore, former G of the Jets, is lurking around too. Plenty of FA time remaining.
That's all fine. I would have your same confidence if we didn't sign all these guys. I can't believe we have much room left. Don't forget, we are going to need about $4.5 to $5MM to sign our draft picks.

Flip Empty
03-16-2013, 08:11 PM
LOL No

In 2011 we had a team who individually had strong performances in 2010.. We had what, 4 All Pros and 4 pro bowlers that year? This team was terrible last year and Jerry Reese hasn't done anything yet to address the poor performance of the offensive line, secondary, and front 7.
9-7 = barely a playoff team

To judge an incomplete team which has yet to set foot on a field is foolhardy at best.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 08:11 PM
That's all fine. I would have your same confidence if we didn't sign all these guys. I can't believe we have much room left. Don't forget, we are going to need about $4.5 to $5MM to sign our draft picks.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

If there is any accuracy to this, we are in good position to make some cuts to free up space. By the way, the Diehl paycut hasn't actually happened yet. It was a premature report.

drewz
03-16-2013, 08:14 PM
9-7 = barely a playoff team

To judge an incomplete team which has yet to set foot on a field is foolhardy at best.

That's why the title of this thread is "So far"

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 08:15 PM
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

If there is any accuracy to this, we are in good position to make some cuts to free up space. By the way, the Diehl paycut hasn't actually happened yet. It was a premature report.
Please note that the last 4 guys we signed haven't counted vs. the cap yet on that list.

tonyt830
03-16-2013, 08:21 PM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????I agree to an extent. I would flip flop Murphy to a move Im ok with and Mundy to a move that is a head scratcher. Now I know we were most likely going to lose KP in FA, but we have Rolle, Brown, Hill and Sash on the roster at the safety spot. If they wanted a safety to compete for the 4th spot, I would have looked for one in the draft.

I like the Murphy signing, he is a deep threat and we are most likely going to lose Hixon and Barden. Murphy can compete with Jernigan for the 4th slot.

And I agree, I am looking forward to getting that O-line sured up. Diehl hasnt officially signed any pay cut yet. Maybe its all hinging on if the Giants can re-sign Boothe. I know Diehl is versatile and can play either G or T position. I think its time to take the training wheels off of Brewer and see if he is capable of starting effectively at RT. If not, then OT should be a priority in the draft. I know we have several o-linemen on the roster---can Cordle play LG? Is Mosley a LG or RT? McCants, Ad****, Capers, etc. Are they just camp bodies/competition as back-ups?

I would love to see one of the top O-linemen be there at 19, but will they be on Reese's big board at 19? I like Johnson and Cooper. I know Waramack is a beast, but I think Cooper is a little more agile, and can play at C if needed.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 08:21 PM
Please note that the last 4 guys we signed haven't counted vs. the cap yet on that list.

There's also a bunch of no names (literally) on there that can be released to make room for those guys and then you can add the Diehl paycut/actual cut. There's no need for us to have two kickers taking up more than a $1M of cap space combined or for this Trumaine McBride fellow to be taking up $630k worth of space. Many examples on the roster.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 08:26 PM
There's also a bunch of no names (literally) on there that can be released to make room for those guys and then you can add the Diehl paycut/actual cut. There's no need for us to have two kickers taking up more than a $1M of cap space combined or for this Trumaine McBride fellow to be taking up $630k worth of space. Many examples on the roster.
My point is that we are taking up a lot of cap space with guys who are of a lower priority than O line.
I appreciate the signings for the most part because they deal with depth which is vital in the NFL. But I am surprised that a vet O lineman hasn't been signed yet.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 08:34 PM
My point is that we are taking up a lot of cap space with guys who are of a lower priority than O line.
I appreciate the signings for the most part because they deal with depth which is vital in the NFL. But I am surprised that a vet O lineman hasn't been signed yet.

Me too but I'm assuming that one of the earlier vet O linemen would have taken up a decent chunk of room making it harder for us to get depth at other places. It doesn't help that we also have near $7M in dead money.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 08:42 PM
Its veteran depth I'm looking for at O line. Not top players. Right now, there are some young, untested players that we will be depending on to protect Eli this season.
I don't know about you, but that doesn't make me very comfortable at all.

Well what FA OL did you want us to sign for veteran depth?

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 08:44 PM
Eric Winston is still out there and might have to come to terms on a low end deal. Brandon Moore, former G of the Jets, is lurking around too. Plenty of FA time remaining.

I would love to get Winston, but he seems to be generating a lot of interest on the FA market, which means to me that he will likely be too expensive for us.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 08:48 PM
Well what FA OL did you want us to sign for veteran depth?
Well the Panthers just signed 2 today.
Honestly, I'd have to take a look at the list, but there are plenty of decent guys out there. there is a glut of O linemen in free agency this year.
I would just say that O line has been unadressed in free agency so far, while other, less important positions have been dealt with.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 09:01 PM
Well the Panthers just signed 2 today.
Honestly, I'd have to take a look at the list, but there are plenty of decent guys out there. there is a glut of O linemen in free agency this year.
I would just say that O line has been unadressed in free agency so far, while other, less important positions have been dealt with.

I would agree with you completely if I knew that we could have signed Eric Winston for what we signed Connor and Murphy for. We don't know that though.

I'm not sure that there was any FA OL that we could have signed within our budget that would have been an upgrade for us.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:05 PM
I would agree with you completely if I knew that we could have signed Eric Winston for what we signed Connor and Murphy for. We don't know that though.

I'm not sure that there was any FA OL that we could have signed within our budget that would have been an upgrade for us.
Upgrade over who? We don't have a starting RT or a LG right now.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 09:07 PM
Upgrade over who? We don't have a starting RT or a LG right now.

Diehl is our starting RT, until he is unseated.

The team is apparently still negotiating with Boothe.

Ok, let's put it this way . . . what OL was out there during FA who would have fit in our non-existent budget?

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 09:09 PM
We have $3.1M tied up into "players" like Trumaine McBride, David Buehler, Chris DeGeare, Terrence Frederick, JoJo Nicolas, and David Caldwell. More notable guys like Tyler Sash and Mark Herzlich can be cut for $1.1M and only cost us around $45k in dead money.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:10 PM
We have $3.1M tied up into "players" like Trumaine McBride, David Buehler, Chris DeGeare, Terrence Frederick, JoJo Nicolas, and David Caldwell. More notable guys like Tyler Sash and Mark Herzlich can be cut for $1.1M and only cost us around $45k in dead money.
I've said it once I'll say it again......As Chris DeGeare goes, so goes the NY Football Giants!!!!!

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 09:11 PM
Ok, so for the seventh time, what OL did you guys want to sign in FA that we didn't sign?

paulj
03-16-2013, 09:12 PM
All we really need for the o line is 1 player which will likely use the 1st round pick on. And Murphy is there in case Braden and hixon leave.

I feel that we need two OL, one OG/C and one OT.

I would love for the Giants to draft Cooper because he is versatile and can play both G and C.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 09:15 PM
I've said it once I'll say it again......As Chris DeGeare goes, so goes the NY Football Giants!!!!!

Hah.

The only thing I disagree with on Reese so far is placing 2nd round tenders on the Browns. I would have preferred to see 3rd round tenders instead because I doubt anyone would take the chance on Andre with his injury history and I'm not sure Stevie Brown will be as much of a ballhawk in the 2nd season with us.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 09:17 PM
Nevermind, there isn't a 3rd round tender. Damn you new CBA!

byron
03-16-2013, 09:18 PM
BOMBS AWAY !!!....... welcome back MH

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:19 PM
Well with Myers now signed, I just don't see how we resign Boothe. Or sign Winston or another possible RT or LG.
I admit that I'm surprised. Another FA signing and another non O lineman.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:20 PM
BOMBS AWAY !!!....... welcome back MH
You know the boards have sucked without me Big B. Look how we're clicking tonight!

Flip Empty
03-16-2013, 09:22 PM
Nevermind, there isn't a 3rd round tender. Damn you new CBA!
yeah it sucks. Since Stevie was drafted in the 7th, he simply had to be tendered with a 2nd.

byron
03-16-2013, 09:26 PM
You know the boards have been unbearable without me Big B. Look how we're clicking tonight! fixed that for ya...hope you had a great trip good to have you back !

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:28 PM
OK so now we have Myers. He's definitely a huge upside kind of player. So JR has made many great under-the radar picks that address depth all over the football field. EXCEPT O LINE. Where we are the most thin.

So if a safety goes down we have a vet like Mundy to fill in. If we lose a corner, its not Tryon but Aaron Ross. If we lose a LB we have depth there too.
But if we lose an O linemen, noting else works on our offense. If Eli is running for his life it won't matter if its Myers or Bavaro out there.

I love Brandon Myers, (especially since he killed me in FF last season) but where's the blocking up front coming from?

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:29 PM
fixed that for ya...hope you had a great trip good to have you back !
Honestly B, I'm starting to hate cruises. At least I wasn't on one of those 2 Carnival ships this week.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 09:34 PM
We could still be in position to take Warmack or Cooper with our 1st round selection. I honestly loathe the idea of an interior guy with the 1st but if we aren't going to take a premier position with the 1st, at least let it be a stud with high upside like a Warmack or Cooper instead of reaching for one of the TEs or a LB. Still think someone like Brian Winters, David Quessenberry, or David Bahktiari will suffice in the middle rounds.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:36 PM
We could still be in position to take Warmack or Cooper with our 1st round selection. I honestly loathe the idea of an interior guy with the 1st but if we aren't going to take a premier position with the 1st, at least let it be a stud with high upside like a Warmack or Cooper instead of reaching for one of the TEs or a LB. Still think someone like Brian Winters, David Quessenberry, or David Bahktiari will suffice in the middle rounds.
Chance will be gone way before we get a shot at him. Cooper may be too.
And obviously we aren't going TE now with Myers on the team.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 09:37 PM
Chance will be gone way before we get a shot at him. Cooper may be too.
And obviously we aren't going TE now with Myers on the team.

No they won't or at least only 1 of them. David DeCastro was the "greatest" G prospect since Steve Hutchinson and he lasted until the 24th overall last year. Trust me MH, the two Gs going in the top 10 is just media/fan hype.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 09:37 PM
OK so now we have Myers. He's definitely a huge upside kind of player. So JR has made many great under-the radar picks that address depth all over the football field. EXCEPT O LINE. Where we are the most thin.

So if a safety goes down we have a vet like Mundy to fill in. If we lose a corner, its not Tryon but Aaron Ross. If we lose a LB we have depth there too.
But if we lose an O linemen, noting else works on our offense. If Eli is running for his life it won't matter if its Myers or Bavaro out there.

I love Brandon Myers, (especially since he killed me in FF last season) but where's the blocking up front coming from?

Sigh . . so again, what OL did you want us to sign in FA that we didn't sign? If you can't provide an answer then you are just criticizing for the sake of criticizing . . . .

nycsportzfan
03-16-2013, 09:44 PM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet?????? For the Cap Situation we were in, i'm giving him a B+.. I also like the Ross signing , and i like the upside LBs for cheap in Rivers and Connor, as both have were real deal prospects, and both know there on there last chance with giants, and i like the way Connor fits this team, and Mundya is good S depth, in acase Brown was not as good as advertised and if Will Hill isn't ready or as good as we think.. The Beatty Signing was great, and the sige ning of Brandon Myers, a top flight pass catching TE is about as sick a signing as we can get! A guy with the potential to put up 800yrds outta TE positon with Nicks and Cruz and Randle doing damage at WR spot is scary! Cullen Jenkins will fit nicely next to Linval Joseph, and gives us a chance to address other needs now in the draft, as hes a great stop gap player who i have a feeling is gonna be a stud for us next yr..

And i'm glad Tynes is gone(never trusted em) and we got a guy with a bigger leg.... All in all, with our cap space, Reese did wonderful!

My fave stuff was Myers, Jenkins, and Beatty...

nycsportzfan
03-16-2013, 09:48 PM
Sigh . . so again, what OL did you want us to sign in FA that we didn't sign? If you can't provide an answer then you are just criticizing for the sake of criticizing . . . . The one thing i'll say is u can't fill all ur needs in FA'cy especially with as little cap space as we have,and all it means, is now we have less area's of immediete need, and Reese can find some Oline help in this yrs draft.


U fill as many needs and holes as possible, to get urself in positon to fill the rest come draft.. We can find a sick G in the 3rd rd for godsake..lol

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:48 PM
Sigh . . so again, what OL did you want us to sign in FA that we didn't sign? If you can't provide an answer then you are just criticizing for the sake of criticizing . . . .
How about Bobby Williams or Eric Winston

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:51 PM
For the Cap Situation we were in, i'm giving him a B+.. I also like the Ross signing , and i like the upside LBs for cheap in Rivers and Connor, as both have were real deal prospects, and both know there on there last chance with giants, and i like the way Connor fits this team, and Mundya is good S depth, in acase Brown was not as good as advertised and if Will Hill isn't ready or as good as we think.. The Beatty Signing was great, and the sige ning of Brandon Myers, a top flight pass catching TE is about as sick a signing as we can get! A guy with the potential to put up 800yrds outta TE positon with Nicks and Cruz and Randle doing damage at WR spot is scary! Cullen Jenkins will fit nicely next to Linval Joseph, and gives us a chance to address other needs now in the draft, as hes a great stop gap player who i have a feeling is gonna be a stud for us next yr..

And i'm glad Tynes is gone(never trusted em) and we got a guy with a bigger leg.... All in all, with our cap space, Reese did wonderful!

My fave stuff was Myers, Jenkins, and Beatty...


I like the signings. I just hate that he's not addressed our O line. Especially vets who can great depth for us there. That was our #1 position of need given today's NFL.
First of all its a passing league and protecting the QB is paramount. Secondly our QB especially prospers when he has good protection. I know all QB's do, but Eli especially.

ELI_HOF_NYG
03-16-2013, 09:56 PM
I give Jerry an A. he is selecting off the dollar menu and making some tasty choices that keep coin in his pocket. what do you want him to do? overspend? The OL will be addressed, have faith in th FO.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 09:57 PM
I give Jerry an A. he is selecting off the dollar menu and making some tasty choices that keep coin in his pocket. what do you want him to do? overspend? The OL will be addressed, have faith in th FO.
Hope you're right. Because the O line is #1 in my book as far as priorities go.

Buddy333
03-16-2013, 09:59 PM
There is still the draft and there will be guys out there to sign that get cut in camp or because of contract issues.

nycsportzfan
03-16-2013, 10:06 PM
I like the signings. I just hate that he's not addressed our O line. Especially vets who can great depth for us there. That was our #1 position of need given today's NFL.
First of all its a passing league and protecting the QB is paramount. Secondly our QB especially prospers when he has good protection. I know all QB's do, but Eli especially. Yes, but no matter what we did, there was going to need to be positons addresed in draft, and now we can do it, without so many glaring needs.. Now we can attack the Oline in the draft... We can get a a couple lineman in this draft, as its fairly deep in the 2nd-7th range...

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 10:08 PM
There is still the draft and there will be guys out there to sign that get cut in camp or because of contract issues.
Probably could have signed Winston and stuck him at RT for the next several years.
I like our pick ups, but would have been glad to lose a few of them to solidify our O line.
Don't forget, he was only released because they got Alex Smith and are now going to draft Joeckel. And put Albert at RT.

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 10:10 PM
Yes, but no matter what we did, there was going to need to be positons addresed in draft, and now we can do it, without so many glaring needs.. Now we can attack the Oline in the draft... We can get a a couple lineman in this draft, as its fairly deep in the 2nd-7th range...
I would agree if we had our starters in place at O line and were looking for depth. But we have no real starter at RT or LG. Unless you think Brewer is in their plans, which might be true.
But either way, if we rely on the draft for at least one O line starter, we may have two guys who have played essentially no NFL football on our O line.

I'm not comfortable with that.

byron
03-16-2013, 10:22 PM
Hope you're right. Because the O line is #1 in my book as far as priorities go. maybe they want to get young up front with rooks use what we have now to bring them alone....Idk....some of these FA's of late haven't been very durable and high priced...I know its risky but rooks come fairly cheap ,they're hungry,healthy and young.....

Morehead State
03-16-2013, 10:24 PM
maybe they want to get young up front with rooks use what we have now to bring them alone....Idk....some of these FA's of late haven't been very durable and high priced...I know its risky but rooks come fairly cheap ,they're hungry,healthy and young.....
I was kind of hoping for something like what we did in 2000. When we brought Lomas, Ziegler and Thomas all in as starters.

TheEnigma
03-16-2013, 10:25 PM
Cooper and Warmack are probably already better than half of the Gs in the NFL. Maybe that's too far but it wouldn't surprise me.

888888
03-16-2013, 10:43 PM
For whatever reason ..some mocks have Warmack dropping way down and could be available!

gabriel_1
03-16-2013, 10:50 PM
Exactly I don't think we need to panic over the OL right now. If we get Boothe back that is a good addition, plus we can get a OG in the first. There are no OT worthy of our #19 pick, but if we get a LB or CB in the first we can get a OT in the second.

B&RWarrior
03-16-2013, 10:59 PM
We are deep at WR.
Nicks, Cruz, Randle, JJ.
Just seems like Murphy is a lack of prioritizing by JR. We need vet depth on the O line. Maybe JR is waiting for the market to shake out. But how much room do we have anymore. We've signed a lot of players.
Protecting our QB MUST be our #1 priority. getting to the other teams QB is #2.

How can you cite JJ as evidence of depth at WR? He has done nothing as a WR. Randle has shown glimpses of potential, but neither have proven they belong. Murphy has shown he can produce in a tertiary role with the Raiders. If he can nail down our option route system he has a chance to improve upon his best numbers with the Raiders.

Protecting the QB should be priority #1. Priority #2 should be stopping the run. If we do that we will get to the opposing QB.

JR gets an A in my opinion. He's addressed weaknesses without breaking the bank. Keep in mind we need to resign Nicks next year to maintain our offensive edge. Signing Murphy is the best move we've made this offseason.

The draft is yet to come and that is where we do our heavy lifting. If we have another killer draft like in 2007 we'll make a serious run at the SB in our hometown. The smartest move would be to draft a run stuffing tackle that can command double teams to play next to Jenkins. I'm talking about a NT converted to a 3 technique.

giantsfan420
03-16-2013, 11:09 PM
For whatever reason ..some mocks have Warmack dropping way down and could be available!yup. every respectable mock in my book has 1 of warmack/cooper/johnson falling and i bet 1 does. that'll be our pick.

im hoping in the 3rd, we take barrett jones as well. seems like a nyg ol. can play any of the spots. 3 yr starter at bama. perfect size for the interior. kinda like a younger, better prospect dd.


if we add just 1 of the players mentioned, our OL goes from weakness to strength imo. can u imagine beatty warmack baas snee RT FA?

hungrrrry
03-16-2013, 11:14 PM
I agree with the B-...I like the agression this year from the Giants in free agency. Even though these aren't big splash signings they are targeting players and making legit offers without burning a lot of time and being stuck with the remaining garbage to choose from...Granted we are going after some guys that would be "scrap heap guys" but possibly the "top of the scrap heap guys". This is all we can afford, but we had to do something and for once I am impressed with Jerry. No splash...barely a ripple but hopefully we can have some surprises instead of unfulfilled expectations!

experto
03-16-2013, 11:21 PM
Only signing I like is Conner...otherwise we downgraded at te and dt.As you see my profile picture is yours truly Canty and sorry I still love him more than Jenkins.Conner is a good lb.Myers is a slow te and not a good blocker.Murphy has done really nothing in his career and the Pitt safety got burned on the Tebow play.Nothing to really be excited about.

byron
03-16-2013, 11:26 PM
I was kind of hoping for something like what we did in 2000. When we brought Lomas, Ziegler and Thomas all in as starters. Well I guess I would like to see the OL get younger... Guys that are going to be here for more than just couple years and I know the draft is a bit of crap shoot....lomas payed a couple years.. Ziegler 18 games in a couple years ....D Thomas was a db...I had look this all up cause I don't remember much of yesterday let alone 10 years ago.....Lets get young..... Eli may have to duck or something for awhile

gmen0820
03-16-2013, 11:38 PM
Ross + Murphy could have = Antoine Cason. That pisses me off, since Cason has far more upside in a position of need.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 11:40 PM
Ross + Murphy could have = Antoine Cason. That pisses me off, since Cason has far more upside in a position of need.

Cason is putrid

gmen0820
03-16-2013, 11:41 PM
Cason is putridLol so is Ross.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 11:42 PM
Lol so is Ross.

So your pissed because we signed one putrid CB and a WR instead of another putrid CB?

gmen0820
03-16-2013, 11:44 PM
So your pissed because we signed one putrid CB and a WR instead of another putrid CB?Care to re-read my original post?

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 11:50 PM
Care to re-read my original post?

Nah, you think Cason has an upside after 5 years in the league, and I disagree. Let's leave it at that.

gmen0820
03-16-2013, 11:57 PM
Nah, you think Cason has an upside after 5 years in the league, and I disagree. Let's leave it at that.He's 26, Ross is 30.

He's played 16 games every year, Ross is a glass house.

He has about as many (2 less) pass deflections in the past two years as Ross has has his whole career.

There are two different extents of "putrid," and for the minor price discrepancy and age factor, Cason is outrightly more appealing.

TCHOF
03-16-2013, 11:59 PM
He's 26, Ross is 30.

He's played 16 games every year, Ross is a glass house.

He has about as many (2 less) pass deflections in the past two years as Ross has has his whole career.

There are two different extents of "putrid," and for the minor price discrepancy and age factor, Cason is outrightly more appealing.

Eh, maybe. Not enough to get worked up over IMO though.

What is the difference in money between Cason's deal and Ross's deal?

Morehead State
03-17-2013, 12:02 AM
Well I guess I would like to see the OL get younger... Guys that are going to be here for more than just couple years and I know the draft is a bit of crap shoot....lomas payed a couple years.. Ziegler 18 games in a couple years ....D Thomas was a db...I had look this all up cause I don't remember much of yesterday let alone 10 years ago.....Lets get young..... Eli may have to duck or something for awhile
I'm sorry B, I meant Glen Parker, not Dave Thomas.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:04 AM
Eh, maybe. Not enough to get worked up over IMO though.

What is the difference in money between Cason's deal and Ross's deal?Not sure honestly, because Ross' contract details haven't been released.

But I think his minimum salary (which is likely what he agreed to) is ~ 1 million.

Cason's at 1.5 million.

Who knows though, if Cason doesn't improve, maybe Ross' proneness to injury is his redeeming quality lol.

TCHOF
03-17-2013, 12:05 AM
Not sure honestly, because Ross' contract details haven't been released.

But I think his minimum salary (which is likely what he agreed to) is ~ 1 million.

Cason's at 1.5 million.

Who knows though, if Cason doesn't improve, maybe Ross' proneness to injury is his redeeming quality lol.

haha . . . could be

G-Men Surg.
03-17-2013, 12:06 AM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????
Talent wise I'm with you about giving a B- but I would give him an A- filling the roster wity good players giving us excellent depth.

Morehead State
03-17-2013, 12:16 AM
Not sure honestly, because Ross' contract details haven't been released.

But I think his minimum salary (which is likely what he agreed to) is ~ 1 million.

Cason's at 1.5 million.

Who knows though, if Cason doesn't improve, maybe Ross' proneness to injury is his redeeming quality lol.

Ross was definitely a good signing. Veteran who knows the system. He's there for depth. We can't have Justin Tryon back there if guys get hurt.
Right now we have Prince, Webby, Hosley and Ross. That's a solid corps at CB. Add TT and we have a good group.
All we needed was an experienced vet, which is what we got in Ross. We didn't need a world beater. Just someone competent who could come in when guys get hurt.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:20 AM
Ross was definitely a good signing. Veteran who knows the system. He's there for depth. We can't have Justin Tryon back there if guys get hurt.
Right now we have Prince, Webby, Hosley and Ross. That's a solid corps at CB. Add TT and we have a good group.
All we needed was an experienced vet, which is what we got in Ross. We didn't need a world beater. Just someone competent who could come in when guys get hurt.Neither Ross or Cason are world-beaters.

Ross might know the system, but if he's always by the trainer's bench or getting that Hammy checked out, he's a waste of space. I'm not convinced he can stay healthy, and I never was.

I don't mind the signing as depth, though. We needed someone added, and I doubt it changes our drafting plans. In fact, DB in round 1 would not come as a surprise at all.

Morehead State
03-17-2013, 12:24 AM
Neither Ross or Cason are world-beaters.

Ross might know the system, but if he's always by the trainer's bench or getting that Hammy checked out, he's a waste of space. I'm not convinced he can stay healthy, and I never was.

I don't mind the signing as depth, though. We needed someone added, and I doubt it changes our drafting plans. In fact, DB in round 1 would not come as a surprise at all.

He came in handy when TT went down in 2011. Started all 16 games plus 4 playoff games when we won the SB.
Stayed healthy when we needed him the most. This season he's not going to be out there all the time. He's a solid pickup.
And I think DB in round one would be ridiculous.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:34 AM
And I think DB in round one would be ridiculous.Why? Next year, our main DBs look like this:

Prince, Hosley, Rolle, Brown, Hill.

Rolle could also be let go due to economic, as well as performance reasons; Brown/Hill are almost as likely to blow this year, as they are to follow up on the promise they displayed last year. Further, if Brown has another 8 pick year (which I'd bet good money he doesn't), he'll be worth more than we could even afford to pay.

BigBlue1971
03-17-2013, 12:41 AM
yea i think Ross was a significant signing! i think some of his veteran skills will translate to younger 2ndary players.

the o-line needs an upgrade at a coupla positions and some depth there as well. i really want these guys to gel and be road graders!

i think re-signing Rivers will have an impact.....if he stays healthy!

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:45 AM
yea i think Ross was a significant signing! i think some of his veteran skills will translate to younger 2ndary players.

the o-line needs an upgrade at a coupla positions and some depth there as well. i really want these guys to gel and be road graders!

i think re-signing Rivers will have an impact.....if he stays healthy!Yeah, I like the Rivers signing. I think his athleticism is an asset, but again, only if he can stay on the field.

Jock Williams, and Spencer Paysinger are also some promising youngsters. I doubt we even consider LBer before round 4 this year.

Martin
03-17-2013, 12:52 AM
My concern is LG too!

All the signings have merit depth so important.
We need to run the ball more consistantly and
Eli must be protected in order for the Giants to win.

I have seen in the past Reese work his magic so
I'm hoping he comes through once more.

BigBlue1971
03-17-2013, 12:54 AM
Yeah, I like the Rivers signing. I think his athleticism is an asset, but again, only if he can stay on the field.

Jock Williams, and Spencer Paysinger are also some promising youngsters. I doubt we even consider LBer before round 4 this year.

i agree lineback is not a "high" priority at this point!

yea im waiting for Paysinger to get more snaps along with Williams. these guys can cover some territory!

with these new offenses speed at that position will be essential!

S.I 2 VA GMEN
03-17-2013, 01:10 AM
I got this funny feeling that Mosely may surprise us n win himself the starting LG job, just my opinion.

gmen2117
03-17-2013, 05:36 PM
I think Murphy provides a legit deep threat when Nicks is hurt and a possession receiver when other guys are getting all the attention. To me this is a clear sign that Hixon won't be back.

Carter.525
03-17-2013, 05:38 PM
re-sign Cruz long term and you get an A+ Jerry..

jomo
03-17-2013, 05:44 PM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????I agree with most of what you say here but you can't criticize his performance with the OL then applaud the signing of Beatty and pine over the potential loss of Boothe. That is locking down the same pathetic crew we had last year. Upgrading the RT alone will not be enough to make our OL fierce and formidable. Heck, how are we going to makeup for Snee's diminished post operative performance?

If we are going to be serious about upgrading the OL, some starters have to go.

Cloud57
03-17-2013, 05:46 PM
I agree with most of what you say here but you can't criticize his performance with the OL then applaud the signing of Beatty and pine over the potential loss of Boothe. That is locking down the same pathetic crew we had last year. Upgrading the RT alone will not be enough to make our OP fierce and formidable. Heck, how are we going to makeup for Snee's diminished post operative performance?

If we are going to be serious about upgrading the OL, some starters have to go.Cooper (draft) would be a good replacement for Snee, unfortunately I don't see that happening.

Carter.525
03-17-2013, 05:49 PM
Cooper (draft) would be a good replacement for Snee, unfortunately I don't see that happening.

sadly.. I don't think Cooper gets by Dallas.. the pick right before us:(:mad:

TCHOF
03-17-2013, 06:25 PM
sadly.. I don't think Cooper gets by Dallas.. the pick right before us:(:mad:

I find it hard to believe that two guards will be taken in the top 18 picks . . . stranger things have happened though . . .

jomo
03-17-2013, 06:28 PM
I find it hard to believe that two guards will be taken in the top 18 picks . . . stranger things have happened though . . .If you watch the free agent signings, running backs and corner backs seem to be losing value. That could mean that 2 guards will go in the top 18 but I REALY hope not!

CowboysSuck
03-17-2013, 06:36 PM
I give him a D-, this is barely a playoff team

but whatever, we'll see how the draft plays out

This is the nonsense i dont understand on these boards the past couple years.

This has been an awesome offseason IMO. We dont have to trade Eli, sign Revis, and off draft picks for Percy Harvin in order to have a "good offseason" or to build a "playoff team". lets get real

CowboysSuck
03-17-2013, 06:39 PM
I agree with most of what you say here but you can't criticize his performance with the OL then applaud the signing of Beatty and pine over the potential loss of Boothe. That is locking down the same pathetic crew we had last year. Upgrading the RT alone will not be enough to make our OL fierce and formidable. Heck, how are we going to makeup for Snee's diminished post operative performance?

If we are going to be serious about upgrading the OL, some starters have to go.

+1. Im all for getting rid of Mr. Overrated (Chris Snee), Diehl, and possibly Baas. The only question is how do we replace these bums? With more bums? 1 or 2 solid FA signings and 1st and 3rd round OL would do it.

I see what you are saying though and I do agree.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 06:39 PM
This is the nonsense i dont understand on these boards the past couple years.

This has been an awesome offseason IMO. We dont have to trade Eli, sign Revis, and off draft picks for Percy Harvin in order to have a "good offseason" or to build a "playoff team". lets get real

lol. This is one reason I lurked for so long without posting. This, and people starting threads like "Should we sign <insert every released player around the league here>". :p

jomo
03-17-2013, 06:41 PM
lol. This is one reason I lurked for so long without posting. This, and people starting threads like "Should we sign <insert every released player around the league here>". :pThat "should we sign ..........................." has grown to comic proportions here among the regulars.................and hey, darrin99, stop lurking and jump in with both feet.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 06:44 PM
That "should we sign ..........................." has grown to comic proportions here among the regulars.................and hey, darrin99, stop lurking and jump in with both feet.

I hear ya. ;) Actually, I was here for many years posting, but my account disappeared. I think it was registered to an email I no longer have, and I forgot the password.

CowboysSuck
03-17-2013, 06:45 PM
Its a strange world sometimes here in GMB land...

jomo
03-17-2013, 06:47 PM
I hear ya. ;) Actually, I was here for many years posting, but my account disappeared. I think it was registered to an email I no longer have, and I forgot the password.It may have been that @aol.com e-mail address that everyone had a long, long time ago!

ANON837
03-17-2013, 06:48 PM
All the talk of OL means that years of neglect is coming back to bite the Giants.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 06:49 PM
It may have been that @aol.com e-mail address that everyone had a long, long time ago!

haha.. I think it was my old Road Runner account I had before FiOS.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 06:52 PM
All the talk of OL means that years of neglect is coming back to bite the Giants.

ASSuming they sign a Boothe or Slauson, my only concern is RT. I don't want to see Diehl there, and I'm not sure Brewer is the answer.

CowboysSuck
03-17-2013, 06:55 PM
@aol.com

@nycap.rr.com

Oh, the infancy of the modern internet. Were some good times (scratchy dial tone, 5 minutes to connect to internet)

darrin99
03-17-2013, 06:59 PM
@aol.com

@nycap.rr.com

Oh, the infancy of the modern internet. Were some good times (scratchy dial tone, 5 minutes to connect to internet)

I remember back in 1990 connecting to @Prodigy with my 2400 modem. :)

jomo
03-17-2013, 07:27 PM
ASSuming they sign a Boothe or Slauson, my only concern is RT. I don't want to see Diehl there, and I'm not sure Brewer is the answer.If Brewer is the answer this year, we would have seen more of him last year given how weak and depleted we were at RT. Look elsewhere for our RT.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 07:58 PM
If Brewer is the answer this year, we would have seen more of him last year given how weak and depleted we were at RT. Look elsewhere for our RT.

I don't necessarily agree. Sean Locklear played very well, and I don't think the team expected Diehl to be as bad as he was. Brewer was a rookie 4th round pick. I didn't expect to see him. Only the Giant coaching staff knows how ready Brewer is to step in this season. All indications are that they really like him.

TCHOF
03-17-2013, 08:27 PM
I don't necessarily agree. Sean Locklear played very well, and I don't think the team expected Diehl to be as bad as he was. Brewer was a rookie 4th round pick. I didn't expect to see him. Only the Giant coaching staff knows how ready Brewer is to step in this season. All indications are that they really like him.

I'm sorry, but what is the basis for your statement that "all indications are" that the FO "really likes" Brewer?

They didn't put him in last year after Locklear went down and Diehl was awful. Also, if the FO was sold on Brewer being the RT next year, do you think that Diehl would still be on this team?

IMO all indications are that the FO is not comfortable going into next season with Brewer as the starting RT.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 08:31 PM
I'm sorry, but what is the basis for your statement that "all indications are" that the FO "really likes" Brewer?

They didn't put him in last year after Locklear went down and Diehl was awful. Also, if the FO was sold on Brewer being the RT next year, do you think that Diehl would still be on this team?

IMO all indications are that the FO is not comfortable going into next season with Brewer as the starting RT.

Because I've seen zero articles saying the Giants are shopping for a RT, while I've seen countless reports that Brewer will be given a chance to win the job. Diehl is still on the team because they currently have no depth on the line. I don't think anyone expects Diehl to still be here under his current contract for much longer.

Morehead State
03-17-2013, 08:54 PM
Why do so many Giants fans think that so many Giants suck?

Sean Montemayor
03-17-2013, 09:07 PM
No. A+. Until proven otherwise.

BlueSanta
03-17-2013, 09:08 PM
I don't necessarily agree. Sean Locklear played very well, and I don't think the team expected Diehl to be as bad as he was. Brewer was a rookie 4th round pick. I didn't expect to see him..

except he wasnt a rookie. He was drafted 2 years ago.

nycsportzfan
03-17-2013, 09:11 PM
except he wasnt a rookie. He was drafted 2 years ago. The one thing i'll say about Brewer to this point is we all thought it would take a couple yrs , as he had all the measurables and athletic abilty, but was raw.. I mean, if they can't get the talent outta brewer(coaches), i'd imagine it to be very frustrating to them, because hes got gifts... I thought we stole him in RD4 a couple yrs ago... But this is the yr, we shall see.. Hes got the perfect oppurtunity...

jomo
03-17-2013, 09:12 PM
except he wasnt a rookie. He was drafted 2 years ago.Thank you

darrin99
03-17-2013, 09:14 PM
except he wasnt a rookie. He was drafted 2 years ago.

Yeah, you're right about that. I forgot since he never got into a game until last season. I have no idea if he's a player or not. I'm assuming the coaching staff knows more than we do.

TCHOF
03-17-2013, 09:14 PM
The one thing i'll say about Brewer to this point is we all thought it would take a couple yrs , as he had all the measurables and athletic abilty, but was raw.. I mean, if they can't get the talent outta brewer(coaches), i'd imagine it to be very frustrating to them, because hes got gifts... I thought we stole him in RD4 a couple yrs ago... But this is the yr, we shall see.. Hes got the perfect oppurtunity...

I think that he had the perfect opportunity last year with Diehl and Locklear being the only 2 guys standing between him and the starting RT job. Then when Locklear went down, he still couldn't unseat Diehl.

As you say though, this is really the make or break year for him.

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 04:02 AM
My concern is LG too!

All the signings have merit depth so important.
We need to run the ball more consistantly and
Eli must be protected in order for the Giants to win.

I have seen in the past Reese work his magic so
I'm hoping he comes through once more.
This has to be the biggest glaring hole right now to fill and top priority at this moment. Could someone in the roster man up the LG position ? maybe but still would be a huge question mark and will create immediate depth need if someone moves up to take the position. In the end O-line still an position need in the immediate and near future.

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 04:07 AM
Why do so many Giants fans think that so many Giants suck?
Is that time of year called the offseason when probowl players suck and some unproven players are practically enshrine into the HOF. Every year is the same and this one is no different.

rcrane
03-18-2013, 04:12 AM
what a ******ed thread...this moorhead guy who makes a ton of stupid posts knows how to grade JR lolol. yeah this thread will be taken seriously

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 04:18 AM
what a ******ed thread...this moorhead guy who makes a ton of stupid posts knows how to grade JR lolol. yeah this thread will be taken seriously
LOL ! I'm sure this thread is just for fun . He knows as well as we all know that grades are handed out when the season ends.
This offseason like any other is just too long for any of us to take it so seriously. Go with the flow.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 09:18 AM
LOL ! I'm sure this thread is just for fun . He knows as well as we all know that grades are handed out when the season ends.
This offseason like any other is just too long for any of us to take it so seriously. Go with the flow.
I'm concerned that we have not addressed the O line. I'm happy with the Beatty resigning, but we have focused on positions that are of lower priority than the O line.
As my original post suggests, I give him a B minus "so far". If he resigns Boothe, and/or brings in some vets on the O line, I will be happy to credit JR at that point.

And to this dope who just posted a few posts ago, this thread has actually had some very insightful, football only related comments by many thoughtful posters. Until of course his ridiculous comment.

So yeah....its been taken seriously by serious Giants fans who follow the team and the league closely and have thoughtful things to say.

Toadofsteel
03-18-2013, 09:45 AM
I cant believe I actually agree with Morehead on something, albeit with different reasonings.

OL was our biggest concern even before picking up all these players. Everyone says that the OL was serviceable last year due to low sack count, but that was almost entirely Eli's pocket presence. Diehl gave up a rusher on damn near every down. If we had an OL that could actually protect Eli, Eli could actually go through his progressions and prove why he's an elite QB instead of having to spend all his effort avoiding rushers and throwing the ball away early...

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 09:54 AM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????

Oline will be handled after the draft imo. Boothe will get re-signed for cheap if he hasn't gotten signed before the draft and I have a sneaking suspicion you'll see DD start at RT to start the season with Brewer and/or Mosely being worked into the spot.

I don't think we draft OL high up (not saying I agree with this philosophy, just what I think will happen).

LBer will be addressed in the draft and I think our priority will be the pass rush in the first round (DE).

Louis Murphy isn't that much of a head-scratcher. JJ isn't materializing so you have some camp competition now. The loser getting cut and not counting towards the cap.

And I'd give Reese a B+ thus far, given what he has to work with (I'd give him an A+ but the cap situation is his doing in the first place).

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 09:58 AM
I cant believe I actually agree with Morehead on something, albeit with different reasonings.

OL was our biggest concern even before picking up all these players. Everyone says that the OL was serviceable last year due to low sack count, but that was almost entirely Eli's pocket presence. Diehl gave up a rusher on damn near every down. If we had an OL that could actually protect Eli, Eli could actually go through his progressions and prove why he's an elite QB instead of having to spend all his effort avoiding rushers and throwing the ball away early...

Forgetting all the commentary, here is our O line situation right now.

LT: Beatty
LG: No one
C: Baas
RG: Snee
RT: No one.
Backups: DD and a bunch of guys who never have played in the NFL.

Thats a pretty bad situation. So we sign Mundy, Jenkins, Ross and Murphy....all for depth which is fine with me. We sign Myers which I am also very good with. But our top priority has to be the place on the field that most directly effects our offense (besides the QB) and we are missing 2 starters. Its not a matter of a lack of depth, its a matter of having no one to play.
Now I suppose Brewer might be on the radar as a starter at RT with the FO and coaching staff. I really don't know. But he's never played (or essentially never) a down in a real NFL game.

So to me the signings are all good. But its what we haven't done that concerns me. I am surprised we signed so many guys, given our cap situation, but I am more surprised that none of them have addressed our O line.
I think we can both agree that protecting Eli has to be #1.

nycsportzfan
03-18-2013, 10:41 AM
Oline is the easiest positon to fill in the draft.. I mean, we haven't had a 1st rd Olineman in god knows how long(pettigout i suppose?), and yet we been to 3 Super Bowls with UDF's like Seubert, O'hara, and 5th rd picks in Diehl, 2nd rd picks in Snee and Beatty and Baas, and 3rd rd picks in McKenzie...etc I mean, what more do u have to see? Obviously not saying all our picks, but where originally drafted..

We'll be fine at the Oline by taking a couple guys in the 2nd-7th rd...

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 10:46 AM
I'm concerned that we have not addressed the O line. I'm happy with the Beatty resigning, but we have focused on positions that are of lower priority than the O line.
As my original post suggests, I give him a B minus "so far". If he resigns Boothe, and/or brings in some vets on the O line, I will be happy to credit JR at that point.

And to this dope who just posted a few posts ago, this thread has actually had some very insightful, football only related comments by many thoughtful posters. Until of course his ridiculous comment.

So yeah....its been taken seriously by serious Giants fans who follow the team and the league closely and have thoughtful things to say.
A lot of question marks all around our OL. Only piece fixed for years to come is Beatty. All the rest are in flux this year or within the next two years. I think Reese is going to adress the issue thru the draft and start giving the Oline a " youth infusion " . This next two years the makeup of our Oline will change drastically. I hope Reese brings back that mean streak attitude missing for quite some while thru out our O-line. We need to get nasty down there again.

And for the record I said not to take the offseason seriously, have no beef against this thread and I count my self in as a fan that follows the league and my team closely.

Imgrate
03-18-2013, 10:55 AM
I'm concerned that we have not addressed the O line. I'm happy with the Beatty resigning, but we have focused on positions that are of lower priority than the O line.As my original post suggests, I give him a B minus "so far". If he resigns Boothe, and/or brings in some vets on the O line, I will be happy to credit JR at that point.And to this dope who just posted a few posts ago, this thread has actually had some very insightful, football only related comments by many thoughtful posters. Until of course his ridiculous comment.So yeah....its been taken seriously by serious Giants fans who follow the team and the league closely and have thoughtful things to say. interior OL is arguably the least valuable position on the team. Second to fullback.

repeatchamps
03-18-2013, 11:07 AM
Oline will be handled after the draft imo. Boothe will get re-signed for cheap if he hasn't gotten signed before the draft and I have a sneaking suspicion you'll see DD start at RT to start the season with Brewer and/or Mosely being worked into the spot.

I don't think we draft OL high up (not saying I agree with this philosophy, just what I think will happen).

LBer will be addressed in the draft and I think our priority will be the pass rush in the first round (DE).

Louis Murphy isn't that much of a head-scratcher. JJ isn't materializing so you have some camp competition now. The loser getting cut and not counting towards the cap.

And I'd give Reese a B+ thus far, given what he has to work with (I'd give him an A+ but the cap situation is his doing in the first place).

Exactly this. DE or LB'er 1st round. 2nd round will be whatever of the two aforementioned positions that's not selected in the 1st round. If no trades occur to gain an extra 1st or 2nd round pick, I think OL is no sooner than 3rd round and thereafter. Either way I think we go defense heavy for 4 or 5 of the 7 rounds. In NY, defense still wins championships baby!

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 12:03 PM
Oline is the easiest positon to fill in the draft.. I mean, we haven't had a 1st rd Olineman in god knows how long(pettigout i suppose?), and yet we been to 3 Super Bowls with UDF's like Seubert, O'hara, and 5th rd picks in Diehl, 2nd rd picks in Snee and Beatty and Baas, and 3rd rd picks in McKenzie...etc I mean, what more do u have to see? Obviously not saying all our picks, but where originally drafted..

We'll be fine at the Oline by taking a couple guys in the 2nd-7th rd...
I'm trying to remember any SB's we won with rookies starting on our O line.

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 12:12 PM
I'm trying to remember any SB's we won with rookies starting on our O line.

Luke Pettigout in 2000 (didn't win of course ... )

Before that, Bob Kratch in 1990 (Eric Moore was only a two year guy and I think it was his first year starting).

Bart Oates in 1986 (Karl Nelson was also a second year, first year starter I believe).

TheEnigma
03-18-2013, 12:14 PM
I'm trying to remember any SB's we won with rookies starting on our O line.

Packers won a Superbowl with a rookie RT in 2010: Bryan Bulaga

Zaggs
03-18-2013, 03:54 PM
Worthless giving a grade now. At the end of the year, then you'll know.

BigBlue wins
03-18-2013, 04:09 PM
Worthless giving a grade now. At the end of the year, then you'll know.

This...I mean, we dont even know who the giants are drafting either lol

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:19 PM
This...I mean, we dont even know who the giants are drafting either lol
There are certainly lots of things we don't know yet.
But here is what we do know. We have signed several players in free agency without one being an O lineman. To me, O line has to be our #1 priority. So we have occupied plenty of addition cap space without addressing our #1 need.

It is certainly true as well that we still have a draft. Let me address this as well. I find it difficult to believe that JR is counting on a "prospect" to start in one or possibly two positions on the O line. I strongly doubt that a rookie has a good chance of being one of the key players entrusted to protecting our QB. . The draft is a crap shoot. There are well established O linemen out there (such as Eric Winston) who should be affordable.

Look, I think he's done a decent job in building depth at many positions. Depth is key in today's NFL. It was our lack of depth that cost us the first Dallas game as Justin Tryon was abused. I like the signings so far. But our O line has been a glaring omission in my opinion.
So I would say that while I like most every signing on their own, collectively I'm concerned that our #1 priority has yet to be dealt with in any way.
I'm glad to wait until all is said and done to decide whether or not I like this part of the team building process.

As I said in the original post.........."So far". I don't think that's subject to a lot of interpretation.

BigBlue wins
03-18-2013, 04:29 PM
There are certainly lots of things we don't know yet.
But here is what we do know. We have signed several players in free agency without one being an O lineman. To me, O line has to be our #1 priority. So we have occupied plenty of addition cap space without addressing our #1 need.

It is certainly true as well that we still have a draft. Let me address this as well. I find it difficult to believe that JR is counting on a "prospect" to start in one or possibly two positions on the O line. I strongly doubt that a rookie has a good chance of being one of the key players entrusted to protecting our QB. . The draft is a crap shoot. There are well established O linemen out there (such as Eric Winston) who should be affordable.

Look, I think he's done a decent job in building depth at many positions. Depth is key in today's NFL. It was our lack of depth that cost us the first Dallas game as Justin Tryon was abused. I like the signings so far. But our O line has been a glaring omission in my opinion.
So I would say that while I like most every signing on their own, collectively I'm concerned that our #1 priority has yet to be dealt with in any way.
I'm glad to wait until all is said and done to decide whether or not I like this part of the team building process.

As I said in the original post.........."So far". I don't think that's subject to a lot of interpretation.

Draft is exactly that, a crap shoot...

In order for the coaching staff to know who is the real deal, they will draft whoever the can at what they value their prospects at (we all know this).
Bearing that in mind, training camp will weed out the good from the bad and our drafts could very well be moot and we keep players such as Diehl.

Nobody is a fortune teller so issues like depth occur more frequently because it's not always predictable that a certain spot opens up because of injury problems.

As a result, I think you cant really give a good answer yet because we dont even know who our prospects are from this year's draft...It's like trying to answer a question when you only have a quarter of the data to answer in full.

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 04:30 PM
There are certainly lots of things we don't know yet.
But here is what we do know. We have signed several players in free agency without one being an O lineman. To me, O line has to be our #1 priority. So we have occupied plenty of addition cap space without addressing our #1 need.


Obviously the Giants disagree with you.

A scenario: The Giants are a lot more comfortable with one of Brewer, Adc0ck, McCants, Mosely, or DD at RT. Three of those guys can move inside with almost no adjustment (Mosely, DD and Adc0ck). So we have the personnel (quantity) and considering the lack of moves there, the Giants feel quality too. The last piece of that puzzle being the Draft (and any late signings post-Draft, such as Boothe).



It is certainly true as well that we still have a draft. Let me address this as well. I find it difficult to believe that JR is counting on a "prospect" to start in one or possibly two positions on the O line. I strongly doubt that a rookie has a good chance of being one of the key players entrusted to protecting our QB. . The draft is a crap shoot. There are well established O linemen out there (such as Eric Winston) who should be affordable.

Depends where in the draft and the position. An OG taken in the first or second round would be considered an instant starter by most clubs. In fact, most clubs feel the same way about OTs taken that high (we're one of the few recently that don't). Most of the OGs and OTs taken in the first and second round last year, started at some point for their respective clubs including the Super Bowl champs (i.e. Glenn, Adams, Kalil, Osemele, etc ...).



Look, I think he's done a decent job in building depth at many positions. Depth is key in today's NFL. It was our lack of depth that cost us the first Dallas game as Justin Tryon was abused.

C'mon now ... he was our FIFTH CB. I don't think any GM in the league goes that deep.


I like the signings so far. But our O line has been a glaring omission in my opinion.
So I would say that while I like most every signing on their own, collectively I'm concerned that our #1 priority has yet to be dealt with in any way.
I'm glad to wait until all is said and done to decide whether or not I like this part of the team building process.

As I said in the original post.........."So far". I don't think that's subject to a lot of interpretation.

I do agree that of all the units, the OL is the most concerning currently. I can only take it on faith that the Giants are comfy with who they have and/or are prepared to draft an OL (or two) very high up.

But considering our OL coach and our history including the MASH units the last two years and the fact that Eli is one of the least sacked QBs over that stretch AND the fact that we won a Super Bowl under that shifting alignment, I'm willing to trust in the powers that be :)

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:32 PM
Draft is exactly that, a crap shoot...

In order for the coaching staff to know who is the real deal, they will draft whoever the can at what they value their prospects at (we all know this).
Bearing that in mind, training camp will weed out the good from the bad and our drafts could very well be moot and we keep players such as Diehl.

Nobody is a fortune teller so issues like depth occur more frequently because it's not always predictable that a certain spot opens up because of injury problems.

As a result, I think you cant really give a good answer yet because we dont even know who our prospects are from this year's draft...It's like trying to answer a question when you only have a quarter of the data to answer in full.
Yeah but JR doesn't know either. Its not like there would be some master plan that we don't know about regarding the draft.

I am troubled so far by our failure so far to address the O line. To me, its more important than signing Victor Cruz or than getting another TE.
If we sign a decent RT I'll be happy to adjust my view.

BigBlue wins
03-18-2013, 04:34 PM
If we sign a decent RT I'll be happy to adjust my view.

Do you think we won't be able to get one in the draft?

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:38 PM
Obviously the Giants disagree with you.

A scenario: The Giants are a lot more comfortable with one of Brewer, Adc0ck, McCants, Mosely, or DD at RT. Three of those guys can move inside with almost no adjustment (Mosely, DD and Adc0ck). So we have the personnel (quantity) and considering the lack of moves there, the Giants feel quality too. The last piece of that puzzle being the Draft (and any late signings post-Draft, such as Boothe).



Depends where in the draft and the position. An OG taken in the first or second round would be considered an instant starter by most clubs. In fact, most clubs feel the same way about OTs taken that high (we're one of the few recently that don't). Most of the OGs and OTs taken in the first and second round last year, started at some point for their respective clubs including the Super Bowl champs (i.e. Glenn, Adams, Kalil, Osemele, etc ...).



C'mon now ... he was our FIFTH CB. I don't think any GM in the league goes that deep.



I do agree that of all the units, the OL is the most concerning currently. I can only take it on faith that the Giants are comfy with who they have and/or are prepared to draft an OL (or two) very high up.

But considering our OL coach and our history including the MASH units the last two years and the fact that Eli is one of the least sacked QBs over that stretch AND the fact that we won a Super Bowl under that shifting alignment, I'm willing to trust in the powers that be :)


Look...if the FO sees Brewer as the starter that's fine. Then they know something we don't. The kid has never taken an NFL snap before as far as I know. If he has, you can count them on one hand. If that's there plan....OK. But that's a tough one to take.

The reality is that we have two open positions on the O line. We have 2 positions without a real starter. In the NFL, its the O line that is paramount on the offense after the QB. So in this very important aspect of the game, we have 60% of our team on the roster.

The fact that we haven't even brought a single vet in for depth is troubling, let alone a potential starter. The O line is NOT the place to "hope" we can work it out. And the fact that we haven't signed last year's starter at LG is also concerning.

jomo
03-18-2013, 04:39 PM
Do you think we won't be able to get one in the draft?We don't need just a capable RT in the draft. Last year's performance by the OL affirmed that we need AT LEAST 2 new starters and a couple of capable reserves. If we sign Boothe we are just re-upping for more of the same. We need change and we need alot of it along the OL. Nothing works on offense without a strong OL, the likes of which we haven't seen in several years.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:40 PM
Do you think we won't be able to get one in the draft?
I'm sure we'll draft a tackle at some point. But we are drafting prospects, not established NFL players. I understand that you have to have rookies contribute to win in this league. But to have 2 huge holes in your O line and hope we can draft a guy to start this year is more risky than this one fan is comfortable with.
I get that its just me. But I'm guessing that there are a lot of fans who feel the same way.

BigBlue wins
03-18-2013, 04:42 PM
We don't need just a capable RT in the draft. Last year's performance by the OL affirmed that we need AT LEAST 2 new starters and a couple of capable reserves. If we sign Boother we are just re-upping for more of the same. We need change and we need alot of it along the OL. Nothing works on offense without a strong OL, the likes of which we haven't seen in several years.

My whole point to Morehead was that we can rebuild the OL through the draft..I only used the RT quote because that was what he was concerned with.

I agree with you Jomo, but i think Reese wants to see if we can get some good OL replacements in this draft and test them out in training camp

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:45 PM
My whole point to Morehead was that we can rebuild the OL through the draft..I only used the RT quote because that was what he was concerned with.

I agree with you Jomo, but i think Reese wants to see if we can get some good OL replacements in this draft and test them out in training camp
I definitely agree that we need to build our O line through the draft. That's different than counting on one of them to start this year. We are definitely a "win now" team.

For the record, I would be far more comfortable with a rookie LG than a rookie RT. A RT can be abused by a teams best pass rusher and blow up our offense.

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 04:47 PM
Look...if the FO sees Brewer as the starter that's fine. Then they know something we don't. The kid has never taken an NFL snap before as far as I know. If he has, you can count them on one hand. If that's there plan....OK. But that's a tough one to take.

The reality is that we have two open positions on the O line. We have 2 positions without a real starter. In the NFL, its the O line that is paramount on the offense after the QB. So in this very important aspect of the game, we have 60% of our team on the roster.

The fact that we haven't even brought a single vet in for depth is troubling, let alone a potential starter. The O line is NOT the place to "hope" we can work it out. And the fact that we haven't signed last year's starter at LG is also concerning.

I don't disagree with that. I'm even more troubled by the fact that we may be starting DD at LG and Brewer at RT (who has dressed for exactly 6 games in two seasons).

I just have to assume that they're not ignorant of their situation and that they have more confidence and/or a plan for the OL. Don't forget, there's usually a flurry of FA signings after the Draft and right before the season starts.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:50 PM
I don't disagree with that. I'm even more troubled by the fact that we may be starting DD at LG and Brewer at RT (who has dressed for exactly 6 games in two seasons).

I just have to assume that they're not ignorant of their situation and that they have more confidence and/or a plan for the OL. Don't forget, there's usually a flurry of FA signings after the Draft and right before the season starts.
I have no doubt that JR knows exactly what's going on. I just think that they may have skewing their priorities in the first week of free agency.
These have definitely been good signings so far. That why I gave him a B minus. I would have loved to have gotten a B minus in some of my college courses.
If he signs a vet tackle that can start for us, I'll be a lot happier.
But that's what a MB is for. To talk about what we're happy with and what we're concerned about.

jomo
03-18-2013, 05:14 PM
I don't disagree with that. I'm even more troubled by the fact that we may be starting DD at LG and Brewer at RT (who has dressed for exactly 6 games in two seasons).

I just have to assume that they're not ignorant of their situation and that they have more confidence and/or a plan for the OL. Don't forget, there's usually a flurry of FA signings after the Draft and right before the season starts.I always assume that JR has a good plan but I remember the year when he thought Phillips would be healthy. We had too many receivers and not enough safeties. You may remember CC Brown and Rouse? Ouch!

I also remember entering last season with a very thin OL. We were immensely luck last year. If the injury bug hit our OL we would have had a miserable season. So, here we are looking at the same OL, with some here hoping we re-sign Boothe (which does not improve us, just doubles down on a pathetic line from last year) and a few of us are antsy. That is why we are fans. We won't understand the plan until training camp so in the meantime some of us just kick up dust.

BuffyBlueII
03-18-2013, 05:18 PM
I have no doubt that JR knows exactly what's going on. I just think that they may have skewing their priorities in the first week of free agency.
These have definitely been good signings so far. That why I gave him a B minus. I would have loved to have gotten a B minus in some of my college courses.
If he signs a vet tackle that can start for us, I'll be a lot happier.
But that's what a MB is for. To talk about what we're happy with and what we're concerned about.

I too am concerned about the offensive line. Also, I don't think JR is done and may surprise us and sign a free agent.

I agree with you in regard to Aaron Ross. He knows the system and will be able to produce here.

joemorrisforprez
03-18-2013, 06:55 PM
Our big OL pickup was resigning Beatty. Still a decent chance Boothe returns to the team. Lots of overpaid OL in this FA like Gosder Cherilius and Andy Levitre. Maybe they have faith in Cordle or Mosley at LG?

I'm really hoping so.

I like the Brandon Myers signing....lessens the sting of losing the Black Unicorn.

Drez
03-18-2013, 07:05 PM
Yeah but JR doesn't know either. Its not like there would be some master plan that we don't know about regarding the draft.

I am troubled so far by our failure so far to address the O line. To me, its more important than signing Victor Cruz or than getting another TE.
If we sign a decent RT I'll be happy to adjust my view.We still have 3 weeks of FA to get through, plus the June cuts. We didn't sign Locklear last year until mid-April. There's still plenty of time. Stop freaking out about it.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 08:09 PM
We still have 3 weeks of FA to get through, plus the June cuts. We didn't sign Locklear last year until mid-April. There's still plenty of time. Stop freaking out about it.
I don't believe that I am freaking out at all. I'm not even having a conniption.
I'm simply expression my concern that in the early stages of free agency, we don't seem to be addressing what I believe should be our #1 priority.

Morehead State
12-09-2013, 03:34 PM
Bump

I thought this was an interesting conversation back in March....Especially given the O line nightmare we endured this season.

jomo
12-09-2013, 03:37 PM
Bump

I thought this was an interesting conversation back in March....Especially given the O line nightmare we endured this season.You certainly were on it early. Even in rotrospect most of it holds up (including Murphy) except for Beatty who for whatever reason I never liked.

Morehead State
12-09-2013, 03:39 PM
You certainly were on it early. Even in rotrospect most of it holds up (including Murphy) except for Beatty who for whatever reason I never liked.
Beatty played well last year. Just didn't this season.
I don't give him a pass but I am hoping he can return to form next season.
That $19MM guarantee suggests that he'll be back.

jomo
12-09-2013, 03:43 PM
Beatty played well last year. Just didn't this season.
I don't give him a pass but I am hoping he can return to form next season.
That $19MM guarantee suggests that he'll be back.Ah if all it took was money and JR's evaluation of a player, Baas and Canty would be tearing it up for us. I hope you are right because it seems near impossible to find 3-4 new starters on the OL in one off season.

Morehead State
12-09-2013, 03:49 PM
Ah if all it took was money and JR's evaluation of a player, Baas and Canty would be tearing it up for us. I hope you are right because it seems near impossible to find 3-4 new starters on the OL in one off season.
Our needs are clearly the interior line. We MUST deal with this with veteran players. Draft for the future of course but we are in the same position this year as last. Lots of holes on the O line.

JJC7301
12-09-2013, 04:01 PM
Bump

I thought this was an interesting conversation back in March....Especially given the O line nightmare we endured this season.
I was on board with you. I thought that this was going to be the season when the wheels fell of the cart, especially with that o-line.

The priority in the upcoming offseason must be the O-Line (just to state the obvious) Yes, we've got holes in lots of places, but the o-line must be addressed in a big way.

joemorrisforprez
12-09-2013, 04:18 PM
Ah if all it took was money and JR's evaluation of a player, Baas and Canty would be tearing it up for us. I hope you are right because it seems near impossible to find 3-4 new starters on the OL in one off season.

I think the Giants need to divorce themselves from this idea that they desperately need to re-sign their free agents. Not sure what's so magical about a loser club that we need to bring back these guys at the expense of finding smart, tough, enthusiastic players.

Morehead State
12-09-2013, 05:46 PM
I think the Giants need to divorce themselves from this idea that they desperately need to re-sign their free agents. Not sure what's so magical about a loser club that we need to bring back these guys at the expense of finding smart, tough, enthusiastic players.
Not a bad point.

rotoman
12-09-2013, 05:51 PM
However you're on notice....get your act together

BuffyBlueII
12-09-2013, 05:52 PM
I think the Giants need to divorce themselves from this idea that they desperately need to re-sign their free agents. Not sure what's so magical about a loser club that we need to bring back these guys at the expense of finding smart, tough, enthusiastic players.

Exactly.

simmstolt
12-09-2013, 05:56 PM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????


Other than maybe Jenkins/Mundy, all these moves look ATROCIOUS right now. F- - -

jomo
12-09-2013, 06:08 PM
I think the Giants need to divorce themselves from this idea that they desperately need to re-sign their free agents. Not sure what's so magical about a loser club that we need to bring back these guys at the expense of finding smart, tough, enthusiastic players.Couldn't agree more. That's what caused the Beatty problem. The guy gives us one really good year during his ENTIRE first contract as a 2nd round pick. So what do we do? We fall in love with him thinking the sky is the limit.............and we were wrong.

I really don't believe in late bloomers. Yes there are exceptions and yes we have one in Andre Brown but for every Brown there is an Austin, Beckum, Barden, Jernigan, Robinson, Brewer, Petrus, Sintim etc etc. We need to make much harder colder decisions on personnel. I am so tired of this coddling of draft choices.

Rudyy
12-09-2013, 06:11 PM
Couldn't agree more. That's what caused the Beatty problem. The guy gives us one really good year during his ENTIRE first contract as a 2nd round pick. So what do we do? We fall in love with him thinking the sky is the limit.............and we were wrong.

I really don't believe in late bloomers. Yes there are exceptions and yes we have one in Andre Brown but for every Brown there is an Austin, Beckum, Barden, Jernigan, Robinson, Brewer, Petrus, Sintim etc etc. We need to make much harder colder decisions on personnel. I am so tired of this coddling of draft choices.Too much sense is being made here.

JJC7301
12-09-2013, 06:12 PM
Couldn't agree more. That's what caused the Beatty problem. The guy gives us one really good year during his ENTIRE first contract as a 2nd round pick. So what do we do? We fall in love with him thinking the sky is the limit.............and we were wrong.

I really don't believe in late bloomers. Yes there are exceptions and yes we have one in Andre Brown but for every Brown there is an Austin, Beckum, Barden, Jernigan, Robinson, Brewer, Petrus, Sintim etc etc. We need to make much harder colder decisions on personnel. I am so tired of this coddling of draft choices.

C-Web was a heck of a late bloomer. I agreed with the Beatty contract at the time, so I can't complain. It looked like he was coming along and his contract wasn't crazy for a T.

Morehead State
12-09-2013, 06:22 PM
Couldn't agree more. That's what caused the Beatty problem. The guy gives us one really good year during his ENTIRE first contract as a 2nd round pick. So what do we do? We fall in love with him thinking the sky is the limit.............and we were wrong.

I really don't believe in late bloomers. Yes there are exceptions and yes we have one in Andre Brown but for every Brown there is an Austin, Beckum, Barden, Jernigan, Robinson, Brewer, Petrus, Sintim etc etc. We need to make much harder colder decisions on personnel. I am so tired of this coddling of draft choices.
Man...That's a lot of misses in the draft for JR. And a lot of these guys were 2nd or 3rd rounders.

bearbryant
12-09-2013, 06:25 PM
We don't need just a capable RT in the draft. Last year's performance by the OL affirmed that we need AT LEAST 2 new starters and a couple of capable reserves. If we sign Boothe we are just re-upping for more of the same. We need change and we need alot of it along the OL. Nothing works on offense without a strong OL, the likes of which we haven't seen in several years.

Right! How come no one else sees the problem that a guy like boothe brings you? He is a back-up, nothing more. Just because he can stand at 5 diferent spots on the line and can hike a football once in a while doesn't make him a starter! Jeez, the rookie Pugh is the best O lineman we have and he needs a lot of work. Is everyone blind? What?

W/O Eli getting those 7 step drops and time to have the OC plays develop we stink! Now, Beatty has been discovered; we got hoodwinked by frisco w/ baas; DD has passion for the game but can't play in this schoolyard anymore; we watched brewer, nuff said. What's next ask O'Hara to come back. Go Giants!

jomo
12-09-2013, 06:25 PM
Man...That's a lot of misses in the draft for JR. And a lot of these guys were 2nd or 3rd rounders.YES, and duh. it only crystalized for me this year.

jomo
12-09-2013, 06:28 PM
Right! How come no one else sees the problem that a guy like boothe brings you? He is a back-up, nothing more. Just because he can stand at 5 diferent spots on the line and can hike a football once in a while doesn't make him a starter! Jeez, the rookie Pugh is the best O lineman we have and he needs a lot of work. Is everyone blind? What?

W/O Eli getting those 7 step drops and time to have the OC plays develop we stink! Now, Beatty has been discovered; we got hoodwinked by frisco w/ baas; DD has passion for the game but can't play in this schoolyard anymore; we watched brewer, nuff said. What's next ask O'Hara to come back. Go Giants!YES again and Boothe is our second best lineman this year and in the last off season there were no takers for his skills. Imagine an experienced and versatile OL with 6 years or so experience in the league and when he tests free agency, he winds up back year with a one year deal for about $850K. That is another example of JR committing malpractice with our OL over the past 5 years.

Robert21156
12-09-2013, 10:16 PM
Right! How come no one else sees the problem that a guy like boothe brings you? He is a back-up, nothing more. Just because he can stand at 5 diferent spots on the line and can hike a football once in a while doesn't make him a starter! Jeez, the rookie Pugh is the best O lineman we have and he needs a lot of work. Is everyone blind? What?

W/O Eli getting those 7 step drops and time to have the OC plays develop we stink! Now, Beatty has been discovered; we got hoodwinked by frisco w/ baas; DD has passion for the game but can't play in this schoolyard anymore; we watched brewer, nuff said. What's next ask O'Hara to come back. Go Giants!
Fantastic post!!! Beatty has ALWAYS been called a "technique" guy,which as you know is code for "soft". Good Lord, draft some linemen from the SEC or other power conference, not someone from UConn. He's obviously not physical enough to play left tackle or pretty much anywhere on the line. Have no clue what the coaching staff has seen in Brewer other than about 300 lbs of useless. Diehl plays with his heart but the swinging door that he's overseeing is open far more than it's closed. Just a terrible job in putting together an o-line.

Robert21156
12-09-2013, 10:17 PM
YES, and duh. it only crystalized for me this year.
Yep, some of the 2nd and 3rd rounders have been absolute jokes. Those guys have to make your team and make a difference or you're just not going to be a good franchise. Reese needs to be gone.

mrmaad
12-09-2013, 10:45 PM
Fantastic post!!! Beatty has ALWAYS been called a "technique" guy,which as you know is code for "soft". Good Lord, draft some linemen from the SEC or other power conference, not someone from UConn. He's obviously not physical enough to play left tackle or pretty much anywhere on the line. Have no clue what the coaching staff has seen in Brewer other than about 300 lbs of useless. Diehl plays with his heart but the swinging door that he's overseeing is open far more than it's closed. Just a terrible job in putting together an o-line.

Not a College Football guy but always here the SEC is the conference to get NFL ready guys when draft day is upon us. Seems like a no brainer to me to get some oline men who have some nasty in them

Redeyejedi
12-10-2013, 07:01 AM
Our needs are clearly the interior line. We MUST deal with this with veteran players. Draft for the future of course but we are in the same position this year as last. Lots of holes on the O line.

They cant afford to just draft interior lineman they need to grab a significant upgrade at Guard if Snee Retires or gets cut. Snee can't stay on the team for the money he gets next season. I hope he retires I want to use that money on 1 or maybe 2 vet lineman

Krusty
12-10-2013, 07:55 AM
as a proportion of picks we haven't overly neglected the O Line over Reese's tenure

2013
Justin Pugh 1st
Eric Hermann 7th

2012
Brandon Mosley 4th
Matt McCants 6th

2011
James Brewer, 4th

2010
Mitch Petrus 5th

2009
William Beatty 2nd

2008
None

2007
Adam Koets 6th

8 Picks in Reese’s tenure

The problem is that very few have been successes and most have been long term projects

I know people say that Round 4 on is a lottery but we need to start hitting the jackpot with those picks

Good teams are built through draft. unfortunately we have whiffed on too many players over last few years

GameTime
12-10-2013, 09:12 AM
What I like...
-Resigning of Beatty
-Paycuts to Webby and DD
-Ross signing. (vet FA who knows system) I actually love this pick.
-Jenkins signing (add to the DT rotation, very important)

What I'm OK with.....
Conner signing. ( not great but as long as he's cheap, I see it)
Mundy signing.

Head scrather.......
Louis Murphy? I just don't get it. Seems like a waste of cap space.

What's missing
-Three things......O-line, O-line and O-line. (we desperately need O line help. Both starting and backups.) Failing to do this will be our undoing. I assume that part of our strategy is coming Jerry....Right?

I can only conclude that JR believes in Brewer. Is DD our new LG? He's a back up at this point IMO. Looks like Boothe may be gone. Hope I'm wrong.


I'm actually surprised that we have signed as many guys as we have. I am even more surprised that they don't include O-line help. Yet??????

you forgot the Pugh pick.....that shoudl be on the "like" list.....just sayin'

Redeyejedi
12-10-2013, 09:47 AM
Yep, some of the 2nd and 3rd rounders have been absolute jokes. Those guys have to make your team and make a difference or you're just not going to be a good franchise. Reese needs to be gone.
You have to hit on players doesnt matter what round. Look at the Seahawks right now they are killing it all over the draft. Russel Wilson 3rd round, Richard Sherman 5th round, KJ Wright 4th round,Kam Chancelor 5th round, U have All Pro's ,Pro Bowlers and guys who can start on more than half of the NFL teams after the first 2 rounds. Then you have high picks like Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner ,and Bruce Irvin but the Seahawks have to keep it up and its not easy. The thing is once these guys need to get paid they better have replacements on the roster because they arent keeping them all. Wilson will get 10-12 million easy, Sherman will get 10, Earl Thomas will get 10, They may have to sacrifice guys like Wagner and Wright they may lose that quality depth.

Redeyejedi
12-10-2013, 09:53 AM
as a proportion of picks we haven't overly neglected the O Line over Reese's tenure

2013
Justin Pugh 1st
Eric Hermann 7th

2012
Brandon Mosley 4th
Matt McCants 6th

2011
James Brewer, 4th

2010
Mitch Petrus 5th

2009
William Beatty 2nd

2008
None

2007
Adam Koets 6th

8 Picks in Reese’s tenure

The problem is that very few have been successes and most have been long term projects

I know people say that Round 4 on is a lottery but we need to start hitting the jackpot with those picks

Good teams are built through draft. unfortunately we have whiffed on too many players over last few years Yep plus they signed Baas, took a chance on Shawn Andrews, things just havent worked out but they havent ignored it

Redeyejedi
12-10-2013, 09:54 AM
Not a College Football guy but always here the SEC is the conference to get NFL ready guys when draft day is upon us. Seems like a no brainer to me to get some oline men who have some nasty in them
Conference doesnt really matter its the type of offense the lineman is coming from. A lot of lineman today are coming from gimmick offenses and arent ready to play

Imgrate
12-10-2013, 09:55 AM
You have to hit on players doesnt matter what round. Look at the Seahawks right now they are killing it all over the draft. Russel Wilson 3rd round, Richard Sherman 5th round, KJ Wright 4th round,Kam Chancelor 5th round, U have All Pro's ,Pro Bowlers and guys who can start on more than half of the NFL teams after the first 2 rounds. Then you have high picks like Earl Thomas, Bobby Wagner ,and Bruce Irvin but the Seahawks have to keep it up and its not easy. The thing is once these guys need to get paid they better have replacements on the roster because they arent keeping them all. Wilson will get 10-12 million easy, Sherman will get 10, Earl Thomas will get 10, They may have to sacrifice guys like Wagner and Wright they may lose that quality depth.

Wilson is getting 18-20

Redeyejedi
12-10-2013, 10:17 AM
Wilson is getting 18-20 Its possible but my point was they are going to have to shell out a ton of cash very soon.

gumby74
12-10-2013, 10:24 AM
Is your grade for his overall performance or just this year? If it's just this year, I'd say he's done much worse than that.

Morehead State
12-10-2013, 11:09 AM
Is your grade for his overall performance or just this year? If it's just this year, I'd say he's done much worse than that.
I started this thread in mid March.

Right now......He gets a D-. (the only thing keeping him from an F is the Beason trade)

GameTime
12-10-2013, 11:09 AM
I started this thread in mid March.

Right now......He gets a D-. (the only thing keeping him from an F is the Beason trade)

and the Pugh pick. That has turned out GREAT.....:)

Morehead State
12-10-2013, 11:13 AM
and the Pugh pick. That has turned out GREAT for a second round talent.....:)

I agree.

GameTime
12-10-2013, 11:14 AM
I agree.


******

Morehead State
12-10-2013, 11:16 AM
******
Hahahahaha!!!!!!!

I crack myself up!

NotElite
12-10-2013, 11:19 AM
.

GameTime
12-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Hahahahaha!!!!!!!

I crack myself up!

at least somebody is laughing....

NotElite
12-10-2013, 11:21 AM
give him an F for salary management , ethnic GM spent all our money . He probably has chrome rims on his car.

Rudyy
12-10-2013, 11:21 AM
Morehead is so hilarious! Hahahahahahaha!!

Morehead State
12-10-2013, 11:25 AM
give him an F for salary management , ethnic GM spent all our money . He probably has chrome rims on his car.
Another banned troll....

GameTime
12-10-2013, 11:26 AM
give him an F for salary management , ethnic GM spent all our money . He probably has chrome rims on his car.

wow....what an idiot.
but I guess you already knew that

gumby74
12-10-2013, 01:42 PM
I started this thread in mid March.

Right now......He gets a D-. (the only thing keeping him from an F is the Beason trade)

I was going to give him around a D. But I'm starting to wonder if he gets any credit for the OL starting to come together later on. Right now as it is, our OL is almost adequate. Let'e be honest here. If Eli doesn't poop the bed, we can very well be .500.

BuffyBlueII
12-10-2013, 01:47 PM
give him an F for salary management , ethnic GM spent all our money . He probably has chrome rims on his car.


Take that racist nonsense off these boards. Please ban this idiot.

GIANTS_FAN_IN_PITT
12-10-2013, 02:46 PM
give him an F for salary management , ethnic GM spent all our money . He probably has chrome rims on his car.

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h451/shymartinez1/_%20FUNNY%20QUOTES%20AND%20SAYINGS%20_/231560avewg1s0le.gif

dezzzR
12-10-2013, 03:26 PM
at least somebody is laughing....Thats pretty much MH eating his crow. Thats as good as it gets.

dezzzR
12-10-2013, 03:27 PM
give him an F for salary management , ethnic GM spent all our money . He probably has chrome rims on his car.

Well, he definitely has some bling blang on his hand....

Fharcyde
12-10-2013, 05:24 PM
We have a lot of guys that played quite a bit on one year deals. Mike Patterson, Shaun Rogers, Kevin Boothe, Keith Rivers and Jon Beason. Add them to the list of the expiring contracts of Hakeem Nicks, Linval Joseph and Justin Tuck and you'll have to figure that Reese has some big decisions to make this offseason.