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luni
03-17-2013, 08:26 AM
did anyone read Giants 101 blog about talking for signing big WR for 5 days. Could it be cruz?

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:28 AM
did anyone read Giants 101 blog about talking for signing big WR for 5 days. Could it be cruz?.

Not unless they are going to admit to tampering. Cruz hasn't had an agent until today. It's more likely to be Sanders

Flip Empty
03-17-2013, 08:29 AM
I'd say it's unlikely, but who knows.


From PFT; I posted this in another thread:


On Saturday night, Irsay said that his team, which has been very active so far in free agency, is “working on a deal, one we’ve been working on for five days,” and that “we’re very, very close to making it work.”

Later, Irsay narrowed the range of potential guesses to one position: “Wide receiver!!“

But there aren’t many free-agent receivers with names justifying the use of two exclamation points. Darrius Heyward-Bey was cut on Tuesday, and Randy Moss still has some caché, baby.

That leaves restricted free agents, where Giants receiver Victor Cruz and Steelers receiver Emmanuel Sanders are the top targets. But with Irsay saying that the Colts have been working on the deal for five days and given that Cruz’s agent change delayed prevent CAA from talking contract during the five-day waiting period, it’s probably not Cruz.

Unless, of course, the Colts were spending the first part of the past five days coming up with an offer- sheet strategy with a 2013 cap number that would prevent the Giants from matching.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/17/irsay-drops-another-hint/

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:34 AM
I'd say it's unlikely, but who knows.


From PFT; I posted this in another thread:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/03/17/irsay-drops-another-hint/

This is the time of the year when those three words should be in most sentences lol

Flip Empty
03-17-2013, 08:35 AM
.

Not unless they are going to admit to tampering. Cruz hasn't had an agent until today. It's more likely to be Sanders

He said they've been working on a deal, that doesn't necessarily mean they've been in contact with their target.


Jim Irsay @JimIrsay (https://twitter.com/JimIrsay/status/313103294920806400?p=v)
ColtFans,we already past the cap cash wise/ we're workin on a deal,1 we've been workin on for 5 days/ we're very,very close 2 making it work

- - - - - - - - - -


This is the time of the year when those three words should be in most sentences lol

Hah yeah, crazy things happening all over the place.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:39 AM
He said they've been working on a deal. That doesn't necessarily mean they've been in contact with their target.





Hah yeah, crazy things happening all over the place.

As you say, who knows? But I think our FO knows what they have in Victor and really do want him back, even if it's only for 2013 so I don't think the idea of a trade holds a lot of merit. Could Irsay be working on an offer sheet? Sure, but that doesn't take "5 days."

We'll know soon enough.

nycsportzfan
03-17-2013, 08:40 AM
Cruz is gonna be a giant.. End of story..

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 08:40 AM
did anyone read Giants 101 blog about talking for signing big WR for 5 days. Could it be cruz?

I think Cruz is as good as gone ala Lin of the Knicks. Not expecting to see him in a Giants uniform again.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:42 AM
I think Cruz is as good as gone ala Lin of the Knicks. Not expecting to see him in a Giants uniform again.

Based on?

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 08:45 AM
Based on?

Based on owners with lots of money to throw around. Just takes a creative contract with backended ( is that a word? ) money like Lin got.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:48 AM
Based on owners with lots of money to throw around. Just takes a creative contract with backended ( is that a word? ) money like Lin got.

So Cruz changing agents with the purpose of working better with the Giants is a ruse? It takes more than money, it takes a first round draft pick and not team has gone that far since 2003.

Flip Empty
03-17-2013, 08:51 AM
Besides wanting to attract the attention of a very large fanbase, I don't get why the writer jumped to restricted free agent receivers and ignored those currently under contract.

There are guys who are possibly attainable for the right price. Say... Larry Fitzgerald?

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 08:52 AM
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/3/17/4114500/andrew-luck-to-victor-cruz


"Cruz is also absolutely worth the Colts' No. 24 pick, but it's possible the financials ($8-10 million a year) could be enough to kill the deal."

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:53 AM
Besides wanting to attract the attention of a very large fanbase, I don't get why the writer jumped to restricted free agent receivers and ignored those currently under contract.

There are guys who are possibly attainable for the right price. Say... Larry Fitzgerald?

And that would be smater for a team with CAP space to spend and not give up their first born.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 08:54 AM
Cruz, and Luck would be a formidable tandem.

nhpgiantsfan
03-17-2013, 08:55 AM
So Cruz changing agents with the purpose of working better with the Giants is a ruse? It takes more than money, it takes a first round draft pick and not team has gone that far since 2003.

I think the agent change is being a bit overhyped. Just because he has worked well with the Giants before, doesn't mean Cruz brought him in to lower his asking price. I really don't think his salary demands changed one bit when Condon came in.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:55 AM
Why would the Giants trade him?

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 08:58 AM
Why would the Giants trade him?

Depends on what they are willing to give.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:59 AM
I think the agent change is being a bit overhyped. Just because he has worked well with the Giants before, doesn't mean Cruz brought him in to lower his asking price. I really don't think his salary demands changed one bit when Condon came in.

Then why change? Remember, that happened following Cruz's meeting with TC and Mara saying they were prepared to make Cruz "a very wealthy young man."

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 08:59 AM
Depends on what they are willing to give.

But you have him gone, so you must know what that is.

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-17-2013, 09:05 AM
Irsay might be the most annoying person on the planet.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:07 AM
Irsay might be the most annoying person on the planet.

More than Jones and Snyder?

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 09:12 AM
But you have him gone, so you must know what that is.

I'm not telling!

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 09:13 AM
But you have him gone, so you must know what that is.

I'm not telling!


I must say the "emotions" on this board are horrible!

nhpgiantsfan
03-17-2013, 09:19 AM
Then why change? Remember, that happened following Cruz meeting with TC and Mara saying they were prepared to make Cruz "a very wealthy young man."

Agreed, something went wrong with the other agent, but that doesn't nessessarily mean that the new guy was brought in and just changed Cruz' terms. These agents get new business by doing well for players, not by giving owners better deals. Let's not forget this guy made Eli the highest paid QB in the league when he got his deal.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:32 AM
Agreed, something went wrong with the other agent, but that doesn't nessessarily mean that the new guy was brought in and just changed Cruz' terms. These agents get new business by doing well for players, not by giving owners better deals. Let's not forget this guy made Eli the highest paid QB in the league when he got his deal.

Exactly, but if the reports are correct that Cruz wanted an agent who would work better with the Giants, can we assume he wants to get a deal done if it's possible?

nhpgiantsfan
03-17-2013, 09:38 AM
Exactly, but if the reports are correct that Cruz wanted an agent who would work better with the Giants, can we assume he wants to get a deal done if it's possible?

I'm sure his first choice is still the Giants.. And maybe he does think that the new agent has a better shot at making that happen.

Flip Empty
03-17-2013, 09:40 AM
And that would be smater for a team with CAP space to spend and not give up their first born.
Acquiring Fitz would likely mean giving up their first, second and third born.

I just think that if the Colts are going "all-in" (so to speak) to win a title before Luck's rookie contract is up, then bringing in a franchise wideout like Larry Fitzgerald would make more sense than signing someone like Cruz, as his massive contract would end by the time Luck's is about to begin.

I wouldn't be shocked if this is only for a mid-range guy, though. A Jeremy Maclin or something.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:47 AM
I'm sure his first choice is still the Giants.. And maybe he does think that the new agent has a better shot at making that happen.

Condon and Reese have a good working relationship.

tonyt830
03-17-2013, 09:48 AM
I have a gut feeling that Cruz will be a Giant in 2013. And yes, I know, we all get our gut feelings from time to time. But nothing would surprise me though when it comes to todays NFL; a big business.

Morehead State
03-17-2013, 09:50 AM
I think Cruz is as good as gone ala Lin of the Knicks. Not expecting to see him in a Giants uniform again.
This is completely ridiculous. I'm not saying its impossible. But Cruz NOT being a Giant is a very slim proposition.
Maybe 1 in 20.
So to say that he's as good as gone, is to say that a team will pay him a huge amount of money AND surrender their 1st round pick. That seems highly unlikely.

BuffyBlueII
03-17-2013, 10:29 AM
Based on?

I am really hoping we keep Victor Cruz but I am worried about teams that can throw some crzy money at him that we can't match. The reason I think we have a good shot at keeping him is it will be hard for a team to give up that 1st round pick but strange things happen.

BuffyBlueII
03-17-2013, 10:33 AM
I think the agent change is being a bit overhyped. Just because he has worked well with the Giants before, doesn't mean Cruz brought him in to lower his asking price. I really don't think his salary demands changed one bit when Condon came in.

I am sure Victor Cruz hired his new agent because he thought that his new agent would have his best interest in mind before any team's best interest. Lets give Victor Cruz some credit, the guy seems fairly bright.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 10:33 AM
I am really hoping we keep Victor Cruz but I am worried about teams that can throw some crzy money at him that we can't match.

It's not just the money, which some teams have. But the first round pick hasn't happened since 2003. Cruz has just hired a new agent who is know to work well with Jerry Reese. If anyone can make Cruz a long term deal it would be Reese and Condon.

hugehomer
03-17-2013, 10:34 AM
If Cruz signs with Indy will that force the Giants to use one of their first rounds picks on a WR?

darrin99
03-17-2013, 10:36 AM
NFL Radio talked about it possibly being a trade for a WR and not a signing. They're going to talk to an Indy writer shortly to try and get some more information.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 10:37 AM
If Cruz signs with Indy will that force the Giants to use one of their first rounds picks on a WR?

Don't hold yor breath for that to happen. I don't think Reese's draft board would change at all.

BuffyBlueII
03-17-2013, 10:39 AM
This is completely ridiculous. I'm not saying its impossible. But Cruz NOT being a Giant is a very slim proposition.
Maybe 1 in 20.
So to say that he's as good as gone, is to say that a team will pay him a huge amount of money AND surrender their 1st round pick. That seems highly unlikely.

It does seem highly unlikely and we probably keep him, at least for this year. The Welker and Amendola deals help us too, IMO. It sets the bar at roughly 6 million per season.

nycsportzfan
03-17-2013, 10:43 AM
Don't hold yor breath for that to happen. I don't think Reese's draft board would change at all. Nor should it.. I mean, he will possibly grab a WR in rds 2-7 possibly, but he just drafted Rueben Randle last yr, who has shown enough to think he can take over as a starter, and then u got Jerrngian and Murphy rounding out the group, and a outstanding pass catching TE in Myers.. So ya, we might go get another Slot guy, and maybe Tavon Austin would be ranked high enough on Reeses big board to go in RD1, but most likely they would grab a value slot guy later on, and let him and Jerrnigan compete..


We have weapons, with or without Cruz to be honest...

darrin99
03-17-2013, 10:45 AM
Mike Chappell of the Indianapolis Star on NFL Radio is sure making it sound like he thinks it's Victor Cruz, but admits he's only guessing.

ironfox
03-17-2013, 10:50 AM
while the colts do have the money to pay cruz they have other needs to adress sanders and heyward bey are cheaper options that dont dont require using a first round pick on

TroyArcher
03-17-2013, 10:59 AM
Colts 1st round pick is not an equal trade. Very late in the round. If the Giants do lose Cruz I want to lose him to a team with a high draft pick.

TCHOF
03-17-2013, 11:02 AM
Mike Chappell of the Indianapolis Star on NFL Radio is sure making it sound like he thinks it's Victor Cruz, but admits he's only guessing.

Just heard that too

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 11:07 AM
while the colts do have the money to pay cruz they have other needs to adress sanders and heyward bey are cheaper options that dont dont require using a first round pick onHeyward-Bey sucks though, and Sanders is nowhere near Cruz's level.

It'd be an excellent trade for them. I'd love to see Luck-to-Cruz, provided we've exhausted every measure to retain him.

TCHOF
03-17-2013, 11:21 AM
while the colts do have the money to pay cruz they have other needs to adress sanders and heyward bey are cheaper options that dont dont require using a first round pick on

This fall under the category of you get what you pay for

NYGiantsFan56
03-17-2013, 12:16 PM
Irsay is a big mouth owner who needs to talk just to make himself feel relevant. He will never get Cruz IMO. Cruz is staying here. END OF THE STORY!!!!!!!!

darrin99
03-17-2013, 12:18 PM
Irsay is a big mouth owner who needs to talk just to make himself relevant. He will never get Cruz IMO. Cruz is staying here> END OF THE STORY!!!!!!!!

Never say never. They have plenty of money, and Irsay is known to become fixated on a player and do anything to get him even if it's a bad move.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:21 PM
Never say never. They have plenty of money, and Irsay is known to become fixated on a player and do anything to get him even if it's a bad move.

And the Giants can match any offer sheet Cruz might get. Nothing will happen for a few days as Condon gets his sea legs. The upside of having Condon is his relationship with Reese. Doesn't require any sabre rattling.

NYGiantsFan56
03-17-2013, 12:22 PM
And the Giants can match any offer sheet Cruz might get. Nothing will happen for a few days as Condon gets his sea legs. The upside of having Condon is his relationship with Reese. Doesn't require any sabre rattling.
+1

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:23 PM
Never say never. They have plenty of money, and Irsay is known to become fixated on a player and do anything to get him even if it's a bad move.Giving Andrew Luck a receiver like Victor Cruz to pair with Reggie Wayne, Allen/Fleener, and TY Hilton would be a great move.

Luck was able to make guys like Avery, Brazil, and Hilton (who is promising) look good. Wayne statistically had the second best year he's had in his whole career. Luck is an all-star, and if you continuously surround him with talent like Victor Cruz, and such, you're gonna contend for the next ten-fifteen years.

Irsay would be foolish not to give it serious consideration.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:25 PM
Giving Andrew Luck a receiver like Victor Cruz to pair with Reggie Wayne, Allen/Fleener, and TY Hilton would be a great move.

Luck was able to make guys like Avery, Brazil, and Hilton (who is promising) look good. Wayne statistically had the second best year he's had in his whole career. Luck is an all-star, and if you continuously surround him with talent like Victor Cruz, and such, you're gonna contend for the next ten-fifteen years.

Irsay would be foolish not to give it serious consideration.

The 1st round give away is going to be the key.

giantsfan420
03-17-2013, 12:28 PM
the colts already have a slot type wr in ty hilton and have an old reggie wayne. irsay does strike me as the kinda guy whod want to cash in on the cruz brand to get attn. and this move certainly would do that.

and while it sounds like a great idea, i dont see cruz coming anywhere near the success hes had here over in indy. just my take.

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-17-2013, 12:28 PM
I don't see giving away a #1 in this draft to be a major sacrifice, especially since it's only the 24th pick for the Colts.

giantsfan420
03-17-2013, 12:33 PM
irsay loves being the center of attn. trading for cruz, whose a household name now, as a rfa (the first rfa acquisition since 2003 l.coles if it does play out) would make him and the colts the hot topic going into the season. and thats something irsay cherishes as much as winning imo...

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:35 PM
The 1st round give away is going to be the key.I wonder if they give it the Polian approach, and just feed Luck weapons.

I can see them targeting Eddie Lacy, or Giovanni Bernard at some point in the draft.

I'm also interested to see how their new "Andrew Luck Director of Offense" affects the scheme. Luck shouldn't be held within the bounds of a scheme, or limited in any way; similar to how Eli is in our offense, and how Luck was used under Arians.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 12:37 PM
irsay loves being the center of attn. trading for cruz, whose a household name now, as a rfa (the first rfa acquisition since 2003 l.coles if it does play out) would make him and the colts the hot topic going into the season. and thats something irsay cherishes as much as winning imo...

On the other hand, he's also well know to exaggerate and get carried away on his Twitter. Sometimes his blockbuster announcements amount to nothing.

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 12:41 PM
And the Giants can match any offer sheet Cruz might get. Nothing will happen for a few days as Condon gets his sea legs. The upside of having Condon is his relationship with Reese. Doesn't require any sabre rattling.

So could the Knicks with Lin! In fact, the Knicks said over and over they would match any offer. In the end, they didn't!

darrin99
03-17-2013, 12:46 PM
So could the Knicks with Lin! In fact, the Knicks said over and over they would match any offer. In the end, they didn't!

The Giants have already said they will not match an offer they consider ridiculous. If Cruz pulled a Lin, he's gone.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:47 PM
So could the Knicks with Lin! In fact, the Knicks said over and over they would match any offer. In the end, they didn't!

I'm OK with simply waiting for the event, whatever it is, to actually happen.

Cloud57
03-17-2013, 12:48 PM
Cruz is gonna be a giant.. End of story..Luck and Cruz would be a good combo :D

P_Simms_#11
03-17-2013, 12:49 PM
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 12:51 PM
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

The Giants will be fine either way. Everybody thought it was the end of the world when Smith left.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:53 PM
The Giants will be fine either way. Everybody thought it was the end of the world when Smith left.

Smith was never Cruz

P_Simms_#11
03-17-2013, 01:01 PM
Smith was never Cruz

+1

bigjeep
03-17-2013, 01:12 PM
Smith was never Cruz

He was when he caught that first down pass in the SB!

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 01:15 PM
He was when he caught that first down pass in the SB!

Fleeting. He was really just s slot receiver, Cruz isn't.

cornerback30
03-17-2013, 01:39 PM
Al of Colts and Cruz talk,it wouldn't shock me if it was to happen.The Giants want to extend Cruz and Nicks,to do both will be tough.They also want to extend JPP,which is a must if you ask me at this point.To extend all of these guys plus continue to pay Eli at his current rate is and will be impossible to do at big money for all of them.Despite what Reese said a few days ago,I think if forced to choose they would choose to extend Nicks.Remember what Mara also said (they are willing to pay Cruz but not willing to go past a certain point) .I believe him to be telling the truth with that one.If it was to be so I wouldn't be shocked by it,we at least will get something for him,unlike Osi now who will leave and get nothing.Don't wanna see Cruz leave especially knowing how much he makes the offense better,but due to cap issues this year and for seasons to come I don't see all of these big money players Eli,Nicks,JPP and Cruz getting big money on one team.It's not all that uncommon,big time players are more and more being let go for cap reasons are getting more money from other clubs.We wouldn't be the first team to do this and we most definitely won't be last.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 01:49 PM
Al of Colts and Cruz talk,it wouldn't shock me if it was to happen.The Giants want to extend Cruz and Nicks,to do both will be tough.They also want to extend JPP,which is a must if you ask me at this point.To extend all of these guys plus continue to pay Eli at his current rate is and will be impossible to do at big money for all of them.Despite what Reese said a few days ago,I think if forced to choose they would choose to extend Nicks.Remember what Mara also said (they are willing to pay Cruz but not willing to go past a certain point) .I believe him to be telling the truth with that one.If it was to be so I wouldn't be shocked by it,we at least will get something for him,unlike Osi now who will leave and get nothing.Don't wanna see Cruz leave especially knowing how much he makes the offense better,but due to cap issues this year and for seasons to come I don't see all of these big money players Eli,Nicks,JPP and Cruz getting big money on one team.It's not all that uncommon,big time players are more and more being let go for cap reasons are getting more money from other clubs.We wouldn't be the first team to do this and we most definitely won't be last.

Two things. The CAP space issues after 2013 are not as restrictive as they are in 2013. Cruz just changed agents to have a veteran who works well with Reese in charge of his negotiations. Cruz is already assigned close to $3M in CAP space for 2013. They can work his signing bonus to be paid out in 2013 and prorated over the length of his contract. This is very doable.

Nicks, for his part, really needs to put in a solid (healthy) year to get top dollar. If he were to agree to extend this year, he would be doing so based on a sub-par performance in 2012 due to his injuries. Back loading contracts is a well established process to avoid current year CAP space issues.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 01:54 PM
Two things. The CAP space issues after 2013 are not as restrictive as they are in 2013. Cruz just changed agents to have a veteran who works well with Reese in charge of his negotiations. Cruz is already assigned close to $3M in CAP space for 2013. They can work his signing bonus to be paid out in 2013 and prorated over the length of his contract. This is very doable.

Nicks, for his part, really needs to put in a solid (healthy) year to get top dollar. If he were to agree to extend this year, he would be doing so based on a sub-par performance in 2012 due to his injuries. Back loading contracts is a well established process to avoid current year CAP space issues.Nice post. People need to realize that in 1-2 years, we can afford a lot of our own guys who have major deals upcoming. JPP-Prince-Nicks-Cruz-Linval will hopefully be last years equivalent (salary wise) of Tuck-Webster-Snee-Diehl-Rolle-Canty-Boley, so on, and so forth. We're just transitioning into a new Giants nucleus, and hopefully it'll be a seamless event.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 01:58 PM
Nice post. People need to realize that in 1-2 years, we can afford a lot of our own guys who have major deals upcoming. JPP-Prince-Nicks-Cruz-Linval will hopefully be last years equivalent (salary wise) of Tuck-Webster-Snee-Diehl-Rolle-Canty-Boley, so on, and so forth. We're just transitioning into a new Giants nucleus, and hopefully it'll be a seamless event.

Slip really put some interesting numbers out there a week or so ago. We can get Cruz, Nicks, JPP, and a few more signed with some good negotiating skills all around.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 02:00 PM
Slip really put some interesting number out there a week or so ago. We can get Cruz, Nicks, JPP, and a few more signed with some good negotiating skills all around.Didn't see it. Haven't really looked at it on a numbers basis, just as a theoretical basis, but Slip probably put up some nice data. I'll have to try and find it.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 02:02 PM
Didn't see it. Haven't really looked at it on a numbers basis, just as a theoretical basis, but Slip probably put up some nice data. I'll have to try and find it.

It was about how many of our guys will be under contract and how many others (some with pretty big paychecks) will be FAs and dropping off the payroll at the contract salaries.