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View Full Version : Dolphins screwing up Cruz deal



BiteyMax22
03-17-2013, 09:06 AM
I feel like the absurd contract that the Dolphins gave to Mike Wallace is going to make signing Cruz more difficult. Wallace is neither anywhere near as good as Cruz nor worth 12 million a year. This reminds me of a couple of years ago when Osi wanted more money and the Panthers threw 11 million a year at Charles Johnson. Johnson actually produced, just not at the 11 million a year level, and I see the same coming for Wallace. No way he earns his 12 million a year in Miami.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:08 AM
I feel like the absurd contract that the Dolphins gave to Mike Wallace is going to make signing Cruz more difficult. Wallace is neither anywhere near as good as Cruz nor worth 12 million a year. This reminds me of a couple of years ago when Osi wanted more money and the Panthers threw 11 million a year at Charles Johnson. Johnson actually produced, just not at the 11 million a year level, and I see the same coming for Wallace. No way he earns his 12 million a year in Miami.

Cruz is either going to be a Giant or he isn't. BUT, in 2013, it's really very likely he will be.

njersey
03-17-2013, 11:24 AM
I feel like the absurd contract that the Dolphins gave to Mike Wallace is going to make signing Cruz more difficult. Wallace is neither anywhere near as good as Cruz nor worth 12 million a year. This reminds me of a couple of years ago when Osi wanted more money and the Panthers threw 11 million a year at Charles Johnson. Johnson actually produced, just not at the 11 million a year level, and I see the same coming for Wallace. No way he earns his 12 million a year in Miami.

No player, except maybe the QB, is worth 10% of your entire salary expenditure. Just my opinion.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 11:28 AM
It's inevitable that these deals are gonna reach some sort of equilibrium.

Look what happened with the DE market this year.

Since we're on the topic of the Dolphins, they pretty much overpaid for everyone just to excite the fans. Raiders did the same thing a few years back with Tommy Kelly, Gibril Wilson, Javon Walker, and DeAngelo Hall, and it was an absolute train wreck.

hungrrrry
03-17-2013, 11:29 AM
I feel like the absurd contract that the Dolphins gave to Mike Wallace is going to make signing Cruz more difficult. Wallace is neither anywhere near as good as Cruz nor worth 12 million a year. This reminds me of a couple of years ago when Osi wanted more money and the Panthers threw 11 million a year at Charles Johnson. Johnson actually produced, just not at the 11 million a year level, and I see the same coming for Wallace. No way he earns his 12 million a year in Miami.Wallace will have a lesser QB throwing to him in Miami and will prove he wasn't worth that deal...in 2014 when we need to do the deal with Cruz we may also see Miami ask Wallace to take a pay cut or attempt to trade him which will give the Giants leverage against Cruz's agent on a more realistic deal and hopefully we get it all done then. We will also need to wrap up Nicks and extend JPP as our priorities.

TheEnigma
03-17-2013, 11:33 AM
It's inevitable that these deals are gonna reach some sort of equilibrium.

Look what happened with the DE market this year.

Since we're on the topic of the Dolphins, they pretty much overpaid for everyone just to excite the fans. Raiders did the same thing a few years back with Tommy Kelly, Gibril Wilson, Javon Walker, and DeAngelo Hall, and it was an absolute train wreck.

Jeff Ireland is on the last year of his contract and he doesn't have the skill to go dumpster diving like Reese so he is just throwing money at whoever walks in his office. No seriously, it wouldn't surprise me if wads of cash fall from the ceiling when you open his door.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 11:40 AM
Jeff Ireland is on the last year of his contract and he doesn't have the skill to go dumpster diving like Reese so he is just throwing money at whoever walks in his office. No seriously, it wouldn't surprise me if wads of cash fall from the ceiling when you open his door.Yeah, I mean the guys he signed are solid players, but they're far more effective signings if you get them at bargain deals.

Wallace would have been nice at 6 mil per, though it's unlikely he'd take that, but the guys hands are straight dog-****.

Ellerbe is a promising player, vicious tackler, but he's not a world beater by any means. You couldn't draft someone to fill that void instead of paying him 35 million?

Wheeler, he had a solid year in Oakland last year. I mentioned him as a potential guy for us to look into, but you're paying a guy who had one good year on a putrid defense over 5 million per year?

I'm surprised Ireland has turned out so poorly, being a Parcells disciple, and all.

giantsfan420
03-17-2013, 11:41 AM
the ONLY thing the wallace deal might do is show cruz how lucrative a deal wallace got playing at the tender and hitting FA. ill take it as bad news if cruz doesnt get the long term deal done. to me, that would indicate he will play under the tender, which is a good and bad thing in a way, and then hit FA where he will want wallace money. he isnt getting that now, nor should he expect it. he MIGHT when hes a UFA next yr. But, how does the Welker/Amendola deals effect the reasoning Cruz uses?
Its pertinent to keeping both nicks n cruz that we sign cruz this offseason or season. next offseason has to be geared toward nicks bc he wont be a rfa iirc

giantsfan420
03-17-2013, 11:44 AM
Yeah, I mean the guys he signed are solid players, but they're far more effective signings if you get them at bargain deals.

Wallace would have been nice at 6 mil per, though it's unlikely he'd take that, but the guys hands are straight dog-****.

Ellerbe is a promising player, vicious tackler, but he's not a world beater by any means. You couldn't draft someone to fill that void instead of paying him 35 million?

Wheeler, he had a solid year in Oakland last year. I mentioned him as a potential guy for us to look into, but you're paying a guy who had one good year on a putrid defense over 5 million per year?

I'm surprised Ireland has turned out so poorly, being a Parcells disciple, and all.iirc ellerbe had like 5 starts in his 4 yr career. and before this season he didnt have a sack, tfl, int altho iirc he did have a ff.
than u compare that with dansby, who has been an absolute beast the past 4 yrs or whatever time period in miami. i dunno if i read it right but something like 30 sacks?? as a mlb? i might be confusing something ill check now. point is, dansby was solid. ellerbe wont even touch his production imho. and they gave ellerbe crazy money


edit: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5558/karlos-dansby

31 sacks over his 8 yr career. and he never misses a game. 16 ff. guys a beast at mlb i wish we'd get him.


edit 2: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13103/dannell-ellerbe
prior to this year, he only had 1 sack and 1 int in 3 yrs.

TheEnigma
03-17-2013, 11:46 AM
Yeah, I mean the guys he signed are solid players, but they're far more effective signings if you get them at bargain deals.

Wallace would have been nice at 6 mil per, though it's unlikely he'd take that, but the guys hands are straight dog-****.

Ellerbe is a promising player, vicious tackler, but he's not a world beater by any means. You couldn't draft someone to fill that void instead of paying him 35 million?

Wheeler, he had a solid year in Oakland last year. I mentioned him as a potential guy for us to look into, but you're paying a guy who had one good year on a putrid defense over 5 million per year?

I'm surprised Ireland has turned out so poorly, being a Parcells disciple, and all.

Wallace put in enough time to earn a decent large-sized contract and his natural ability to threaten the top of a defense warrants it somewhat but the fact that the Steelers, one of the better franchises, has no problem letting him go should be an alarm.

Ellerbe is a decent player but has he done enough to warrant the big contract yet? I'm not convinced that he will play at the same level or intensity in Miami without the likes of a Ray Lewis or other veteran leadership to inspire him.

Wheeler is an OK deal but they really should just draft a pass rusher in the 1st round for much less and anyone should look good playing next to Cameron Wake.

Really though, I wonder if there is a plot to grab a few good seasons with these FAs in the attempt to have a new stadium built too. It would explain more behind these moves.

TennisMenace
03-17-2013, 11:52 AM
Wallace is an outside WR; Cruz is a slot receiver.

Welker and Amendola's numbers should be Cruz's numbers, not Wallace or Jennings.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 11:52 AM
iirc ellerbe had like 5 starts in his 4 yr career. and before this season he didnt have a sack, tfl, int altho iirc he did have a ff.
than u compare that with dansby, who has been an absolute beast the past 4 yrs or whatever time period in miami. i dunno if i read it right but something like 30 sacks?? as a mlb? i might be confusing something ill check now. point is, dansby was solid. ellerbe wont even touch his production imho. and they gave ellerbe crazy money


edit: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/5558/karlos-dansby

31 sacks over his 8 yr career. and he never misses a game. 16 ff. guys a beast at mlb i wish we'd get him.


edit 2: http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13103/dannell-ellerbe
prior to this year, he only had 1 sack and 1 int in 3 yrs.

Yeah, I also wonder how motivated Ellerbe will be with, like Enigma said, no veteran leadership AND the satisfaction of already having won a Super Bowl. He's pretty much reached his NFL-zenith.


Wallace put in enough time to earn a decent large-sized contract and his natural ability to threaten the top of a defense warrants it somewhat but the fact that the Steelers, one of the better franchises, has no problem letting him go should be an alarm.

Ellerbe is a decent player but has he done enough to warrant the big contract yet? I'm not convinced that he will play at the same level or intensity in Miami without the likes of a Ray Lewis or other veteran leadership to inspire him.

Wheeler is an OK deal but they really should just draft a pass rusher in the 1st round for much less and anyone should look good playing next to Cameron Wake.

Really though, I wonder if there is a plot to grab a few good seasons with these FAs in the attempt to have a new stadium built too. It would explain more behind these moves.I think filling the stadium (and then eventually getting a new one) is the major factor in that, for sure.

Plus, Ireland knows that if the team doesn't show significant improvement, or generate results, his contract won't be renewed. In a way, he's just playing with Ross' money as a last hope.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 11:55 AM
It's inevitable that these deals are gonna reach some sort of equilibrium.

Look what happened with the DE market this year.

Since we're on the topic of the Dolphins, they pretty much overpaid for everyone just to excite the fans. Raiders did the same thing a few years back with Tommy Kelly, Gibril Wilson, Javon Walker, and DeAngelo Hall, and it was an absolute train wreck.


+1 Teams who spend their CAP every season don't need the big splash contracts they need to keep as much of their nucleus as they can while developing through the draft and short term free agent signings. It has worked pretty well for us.

I also think old time franchises with family ties to the past look at the "game" differently. It's a business for all of them, but teams like the Giants, Bears and Steelers from the old guard are storied franchises that just have the game in their blood.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 11:57 AM
+1 Teams who spend their CAP every season don't need the big splash contracts they need to keep as much of their nucleus as they can while developing through the draft and short term free agent signings. It has worked pretty well for us.Yeah, and not many teams can even say they have a "nucleus."

The major factor is having a Franchise QB though, and luckily we do.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 11:59 AM
Yeah, and not many teams can even say they have a "nucleus."

The major factor is having a Franchise QB though, and luckily we do.

John Mara uses the word "continuity" a lot and he learned that from Wellington. Sometimes we tend to look at that as keeping players too long but it also serves us well that our coaching staff doesn't turnaround like some others we see every year.

TheEnigma
03-17-2013, 12:01 PM
+1 Teams who spend their CAP every season don't need the big splash contracts they need to keep as much of their nucleus as they can while developing through the draft and short term free agent signings. It has worked pretty well for us.

It's worked out for the most recent SB winners the last few years. Ravens, Giants, Packers, Saints, and Steelers. The only exception in that group is the Saints because they bought their franchise QB. The rest of those teams are dumpster divers in FA and it tends to give you only a little less value but the upside being much less risk involved. I'm surprised GMs don't realize this yet that there are already hard results pointing out that big FA acquisitions rarely work out.

Pretty funny how A.J. Smith drafted two SB winning QBs but he gets to watch them win championships on different teams.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:05 PM
It's worked out for the most recent SB winners the last few years. Ravens, Giants, Packers, Saints, and Steelers. The only exception in that group is the Saints because they bought their franchise QB. The rest of those teams are dumpster divers in FA and it tends to give you only a little less value but the upside being much less risk involved. I'm surprised GMs don't realize this yet that there are already hard results pointing out that big FA acquisitions rarely work out.

Pretty funny how A.J. Smith drafted two SB winning QBs but he gets to watch them win championships on different teams.

We fans look at our teams as sprints, gearing up for the next season. But people like Jerry Reese are looking at five and ten year plans (marathons) and every move they make, somehow fits into those plans.

Redeyejedi
03-17-2013, 12:08 PM
Cruz is not just a slot receiver. He is the best slot receiver in the NFL . Why I dont think he should be paid like some of the elite outside WR's he deserves more then the highest slot guy. I think Cruz should get around 8 mil per. If u can get Nicks and Cruz done fro 15-16 million a year I think u can live with that. 20 is to much

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:12 PM
Cruz is not just a slot receiver. He is the best slot receiver in the NFL . Why I dont think he should be paid like some of the elite outside WR's he deserves more then the highest slot guy. I think Cruz should get around 8 mil per. If u can get Nicks and Cruz done fro 15-16 million a year I think u can live with that. 20 is to much

The CAP space situation will ease some after 2013. Signing both Nicks and Cruz is doable even if back loading one more than the other is the answer.

gmen0820
03-17-2013, 12:13 PM
Cruz is not just a slot receiver. He is the best slot receiver in the NFL . Why I dont think he should be paid like some of the elite outside WR's he deserves more then the highest slot guy. I think Cruz should get around 8 mil per. If u can get Nicks and Cruz done fro 15-16 million a year I think u can live with that. 20 is to muchI think 18 is the bare minimum, and I think it's fair. I'd rather have the money lie in our playmakers, than guys like Snee, Diehl, Rolle, Tuck, Webster.

Seriously, this Giants team will look so different in two years, but it'll be a natural progression rather than a rough transition.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 12:15 PM
I think 18 is the bare minimum, and I think it's fair. I'd rather have the money lie in our playmakers, than guys like Snee, Diehl, Rolle, Tuck, Webster.

Seriously, this Giants team will look so different in two years, but it'll be a natural progression rather than a rough transition.

As always, a blend of the old and new.