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View Full Version : look at this tweet exchange re Cruz



sethm
03-17-2013, 07:25 PM
13m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch says likely Cruz will get offer sheet but doesn't know from who. He wants Cruz to be Giant forever.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

13m Bart Hubbuch Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP
Tisch predicts that Victor Cruz will command more than the $6M-per-year average that fellow slot WRs Welker and Amendola just got. Retweeted by Patricia Traina

12m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch thinks Cruz will get more than the $6 million per year that slot receivers Welker and Amendola got.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

11m Ian Rapoport Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Tisch said the Giants will go as far as they can to keep Victor Cruz. He added that a change of agents to Tom Condon is a positive step
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

10m Tom Rock Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Tisch says Giants working on David Diehl pay cut similar to Webster's with bonus & voidable year. "I think he's an asset," he said of Diehl
.
10m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch says five day window before new agent Tom Condon can begin negotiating for Cruz expired Friday.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

6m Patricia Traina Patricia Traina ‏@Patricia_Traina
Am guessing if Cruz gets more than $6M per year, he's likely gone.

3m GiantsWFAN GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan
RT @TomRock_Newsday Is Cruz going to get in the $6m per range that Welker got? Tisch: "I think Victor is going to get higher than that."
2m GiantsWFAN GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan

RT @TomRock_Newsday Tisch says he expects a team will make an offer to Cruz: "We're going to go as far as we can go to keep him on the team
2m Tom Rock Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Tisch said Giants "waiting to see what the ask is" from Cruz and Condon. As of 10 minutes ago, I can guarantee it'll be more than $6m per.

Carter.525
03-17-2013, 07:27 PM
just give him 8 mil and end it..

TheAnalyst
03-17-2013, 07:30 PM
I think this is one of the rare times it is better to over pay.

nhpgiantsfan
03-17-2013, 07:34 PM
Typical Tisch talking too much.

Rudyy
03-17-2013, 07:36 PM
asklfdskl4k4lkwlf.arr/325;l4rt l;kl;ds l;adas;fdkl;afc;fsd/a

this needs to end...in a good way.

darrin99
03-17-2013, 07:36 PM
Does anyone think he's not going to get paid more than an old Welker or brittle D.A.? He's not signing for $6m. He's also not getting the rumored $11 he's supposedly looking for.

ozzie0075
03-17-2013, 07:38 PM
Typical Tisch talking too much.

When you sign the checks you can say what you want.

luni
03-17-2013, 07:41 PM
so can someone fill me in??????


Did Cruz get rid of his agent again? and does he have to wait another 5 days to sign? or is the 5 days already up?

please fill me in

Sean Montemayor
03-17-2013, 07:41 PM
I predict we will be paying at least 7 million for salsa lessons. Yeah!

speedman
03-17-2013, 07:42 PM
Tisch should stfu.

Sean Montemayor
03-17-2013, 07:42 PM
so can someone fill me in??????Did Cruz get rid of his agent again? and does he have to wait another 5 days to sign? or is the 5 days already up?please fill me in Five days over since Friday. Not sure if they can negotiate yet. We'll find out soon.

sethm
03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
this one just posted

Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Irsay on WR Colts are targeting: "It's NOT Cruz."

just added

Mike Chappell ‏@mchappell51
#colts owner Jim Irsay to media at owners' meetings: ‏"it's not (Victor) Cruz, no". So that's one name to cross off the list.

YATittle1962
03-17-2013, 07:46 PM
I see a Mara slap in Tisch future

cornerback30
03-17-2013, 07:49 PM
I don't think the Giants are gonna budge on Cruz the 5 day period expired on Friday and they still haven't had talks,remember when the Giants used the franchise tag of Jacobs,they did with the intentions of resigning him.They aren't doing this with Cruz I hope they aren't hoping for someone to make an offer for over 6 mil just so they can get that pick,IDK man it just don't feel right this whole ordeal

theGateKeeper
03-17-2013, 07:50 PM
When you sign the checks you can say what you want. What do you think the fans do when they buy those tickets and go to those games?????

sethm
03-17-2013, 07:52 PM
I don't think the Giants are gonna budge on Cruz the 5 day period expired on Friday and they still haven't had talks,remember when the Giants used the franchise tag of Jacobs,they did with the intentions of resigning him.They aren't doing this with Cruz I hope they aren't hoping for someone to make an offer for over 6 mil just so they can get that pick,IDK man it just don't feel right this whole ordeal

Not for nothing it may be as simple as getting an offer sheet that the Giants can match so as to avoid negotiations. another words let the other GM do all the contractual work and the Giants just adopt it

BlueSanta
03-17-2013, 07:54 PM
What do you think the fans do when they buy those tickets and go to those games?????


Fans are in line waiting for tickets and seat licenses. You are gonna not buy tickets because the owner made a tweet or 2? go right ahead, he will sell your ticket to another fan who could care less. He might even sell it for more than he sold it to you, so you would be doing him a favor. thanks!

sethm
03-17-2013, 07:54 PM
I see a Mara slap in Tisch future

LOL More like a kick in the..... ;)

Cloud57
03-17-2013, 07:57 PM
I predict we will be paying at least 7 million for salsa lessons. Yeah!This team should ban TD celebrations because we will end up paying extra for them :D

sethm
03-17-2013, 07:59 PM
When you sign the checks you can say what you want.


True if he was the only one that signed them

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 07:59 PM
13m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch says likely Cruz will get offer sheet but doesn't know from who. He wants Cruz to be Giant forever.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

13m Bart Hubbuch Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP
Tisch predicts that Victor Cruz will command more than the $6M-per-year average that fellow slot WRs Welker and Amendola just got. Retweeted by Patricia Traina

12m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch thinks Cruz will get more than the $6 million per year that slot receivers Welker and Amendola got.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

11m Ian Rapoport Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Tisch said the Giants will go as far as they can to keep Victor Cruz. He added that a change of agents to Tom Condon is a positive step
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

10m Tom Rock Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Tisch says Giants working on David Diehl pay cut similar to Webster's with bonus & voidable year. "I think he's an asset," he said of Diehl
.
10m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch says five day window before new agent Tom Condon can begin negotiating for Cruz expired Friday.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

6m Patricia Traina Patricia Traina ‏@Patricia_Traina
Am guessing if Cruz gets more than $6M per year, he's likely gone.

3m GiantsWFAN GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan
RT @TomRock_Newsday Is Cruz going to get in the $6m per range that Welker got? Tisch: "I think Victor is going to get higher than that."
2m GiantsWFAN GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan

RT @TomRock_Newsday Tisch says he expects a team will make an offer to Cruz: "We're going to go as far as we can go to keep him on the team
2m Tom Rock Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Tisch said Giants "waiting to see what the ask is" from Cruz and Condon. As of 10 minutes ago, I can guarantee it'll be more than $6m per.

Nothing new here, it's what they have all been saying. Cruz will likely be signed to a long term deal between $7 - 8M.

sethm
03-17-2013, 08:03 PM
"Nothing new here, it's what they have all been saying. Cruz will likely be signed to a long term deal between $7 - 8M. "

We say a lot of things that never get confirmed. just thought I would put some vinegar into the discussion which has some base in what the team is thinking. Please disregard if you were be sarcastic again :)

Sean Montemayor
03-17-2013, 08:12 PM
No. 7 million for salsa lessons to all. YES!!!

NYG4lifeNYK
03-17-2013, 08:14 PM
I don't see how any of that is discouraging at all.


All it is, is more people specualting about bs.

Redeyejedi
03-17-2013, 08:16 PM
just give him 8 mil and end it.. I think thats the fair number for both sides

Carter.525
03-17-2013, 08:19 PM
I think thats the fair number for both sides

not to mention all the perks that come with NYC.. crazy endorsements for a guy like Cruz..

bELIeve_in_Giants
03-17-2013, 08:19 PM
so can someone fill me in??????


Did Cruz get rid of his agent again? and does he have to wait another 5 days to sign? or is the 5 days already up?

please fill me in

5 days is up.

sethm
03-17-2013, 08:58 PM
not to mention all the perks that come with NYC.. crazy endorsements for a guy like Cruz..

That has to figure in I believe. Giants need to beat Welker money based on age and future considerations. As Teddy (KGB) says in rounder's "Pay da man his money"

Carter.525
03-17-2013, 09:00 PM
That has to figure in I believe. Giants need to beat Welker money based on age and future considerations. As Teddy (KGB) says in rounder's "Pay da man his money"

629

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:01 PM
I see a Mara slap in Tisch future

LMAO

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:02 PM
I don't see how any of that is discouraging at all.


All it is, is more people specualting about bs.

Some people just thrive on negativity

CowboysSuck
03-17-2013, 09:04 PM
Steve Tisch needs to stop throwing out numbers like that!

This is a chess game, cmon man!

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:05 PM
"Nothing new here, it's what they have all been saying. Cruz will likely be signed to a long term deal between $7 - 8M. "

We say a lot of things that never get confirmed. just thought I would put some vinegar into the discussion which has some base in what the team is thinking. Please disregard if you were be sarcastic again :)

It's an opinion. No confirmation needed

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:10 PM
Not for nothing it may be as simple as getting an offer sheet that the Giants can match so as to avoid negotiations. another words let the other GM do all the contractual work and the Giants just adopt it

Except the Giants already have an offer on the table

tcseacliff
03-17-2013, 09:23 PM
found this tweet:

https://twitter.com/TomRock_Newsday/statuses/313410240987152385

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:27 PM
found this tweet:

https://twitter.com/TomRock_Newsday/statuses/313410240987152385

There are far more good signs at this point than bad.

tcseacliff
03-17-2013, 09:33 PM
think you are correct sir !

Drez
03-17-2013, 09:55 PM
Does anyone think he's not going to get paid more than an old Welker or brittle D.A.? He's not signing for $6m. He's also not getting the rumored $11 he's supposedly looking for.I figure he'll get more than the $6m, but not much. Thinking more like $7m.

RoanokeFan
03-17-2013, 09:56 PM
I figure he'll get more than the $6m, but not much. Thinking more like $7m.

6yr/42M, 18-20 guaranteed

Drez
03-17-2013, 10:01 PM
I think thats the fair number for both sidesThe only way I'd be pissed if Cruz got $8m, is if we then had to let Nicks walk because of it. Other than that, that's the top end of what I think Cruz commands.

Drez
03-17-2013, 10:02 PM
6yr/42M, 18-20 guaranteedI was thinking a little more like 5/$35m-$40m with $20m-$25m guaranteed (not all signing bonus, though).

GoodbyeWilson
03-17-2013, 10:13 PM
Am I the only one here that wouldn't mind seeing another team sign him to an offer sheet? Having another first round pick this year would be huge even if it is in the mid-late 20s because of how much 1st round talent there is this year. I honestly don't think Cruz is worth more than $7 mil/yr. He just doesn't seem like a legitimate #1 to me and needs someone like Nicks on the other side to free him up. I know he's put up huge numbers but a lot of that is Eli and Nicks. Not saying I wouldn't want him to stay, but just looking at what we'd gain from him leaving (cap space, 1st rounder to address more pressing needs, more playing time for Randle, etc), I think I'd rather let him walk than pay more than $7mil/yr and risk losing Nicks or JPP or whoever.

RagTime Blue
03-17-2013, 10:21 PM
I will say this much. . .he was rumored to have been VERY close to signing long-term at one point last season. Anyone else remember this?? He was even publicly saying it. At that EXACT moment, his production dropped. One wonders if a well-fed VC is as effective as a hungry one.

If I noticed this, I have a feeling JR and Tisch and Mara certainly did too.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/giants_and_wr_victor_cruz_close_in_on_new_deal/12093889

gmen2117
03-17-2013, 10:23 PM
Am I the only one here that wouldn't mind seeing another team sign him to an offer sheet? Having another first round pick this year would be huge even if it is in the mid-late 20s because of how much 1st round talent there is this year. I honestly don't think Cruz is worth more than $7 mil/yr. He just doesn't seem like a legitimate #1 to me and needs someone like Nicks on the other side to free him up. I know he's put up huge numbers but a lot of that is Eli and Nicks. Not saying I wouldn't want him to stay, but just looking at what we'd gain from him leaving (cap space, 1st rounder to address more pressing needs, more playing time for Randle, etc), I think I'd rather let him walk than pay more than $7mil/yr and risk losing Nicks or JPP or whoever.
What about all the games Nicks was out? Did just fine IMO

Carter.525
03-17-2013, 10:24 PM
I will say this much. . .he was rumored to have been VERY close to signing long-term at one point last season. Anyone else remember this?? He was even publicly saying it. At that EXACT moment, his production dropped. One wonders if a well-fed VC is as effective as a hungry one.

If I noticed this, I have a feeling JR and Tisch and Mara certainly did too.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/giants_and_wr_victor_cruz_close_in_on_new_deal/12093889

Oct. 30th!! man does that feel like yrs ago now

Drez
03-17-2013, 10:24 PM
I will say this much. . .he was rumored to have been VERY close to signing long-term at one point last season. Anyone else remember this?? He was even publicly saying it. At that EXACT moment, his production dropped. One wonders if a well-fed VC is as effective as a hungry one.

If I noticed this, I have a feeling JR and Tisch and Mara certainly did too.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/giants_and_wr_victor_cruz_close_in_on_new_deal/12093889Correlation is not causation. And if anything, seeing as the contract didn't come about one can argue that any drop off in production can be attributed just as easily, if not more so, to no contract as to getting a big pay day.

bringsimmsback
03-17-2013, 10:30 PM
Am I the only one here that wouldn't mind seeing another team sign him to an offer sheet? Having another first round pick this year would be huge even if it is in the mid-late 20s because of how much 1st round talent there is this year. I honestly don't think Cruz is worth more than $7 mil/yr. He just doesn't seem like a legitimate #1 to me and needs someone like Nicks on the other side to free him up. I know he's put up huge numbers but a lot of that is Eli and Nicks. Not saying I wouldn't want him to stay, but just looking at what we'd gain from him leaving (cap space, 1st rounder to address more pressing needs, more playing time for Randle, etc), I think I'd rather let him walk than pay more than $7mil/yr and risk losing Nicks or JPP or whoever.

I agree. With his ongoing drops at key moments and his steep drop off in YAC, I don't think Cruz is worth more than 7 million if I have a chance to get a 1st for him. I prefer one below 20, however.

Even if we keep him at 7 million a year, I hope it is back loaded in anticipation of the CAP going up with a new TV deal.

TheShouldersOf
03-17-2013, 10:33 PM
What about all the games Nicks was out? Did just fine IMO

and had a couple bad ones, in fact had some that he was practically nonexistent,

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13553/victor-cruz

Double Digit drops the last two season, ranked in the top four of drops last season, doesn't run block,

over 6 million is reaching, 8 is too high

Drez
03-17-2013, 10:41 PM
and had a couple bad ones, in fact had some that he was practically nonexistent,

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13553/victor-cruz

Double Digit drops the last two season, ranked in the top four of drops last season, doesn't run block,

over 6 million is reaching, 8 is too highDespite the one incident with Bradshaw, Cruz is an adequate blocker.

gmen2117
03-17-2013, 10:42 PM
and had a couple bad ones, in fact had some that he was practically nonexistent,

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/13553/victor-cruz

Double Digit drops the last two season, ranked in the top four of drops last season, doesn't run block,

over 6 million is reaching, 8 is too high

Agreed, but with Welker and Amendola getting 6 its looking more like he will eventually get 7 or 8 and I think the Giants would try to match that.

GiantRoc
03-17-2013, 11:16 PM
Victor is looking for the big payday. That's the way the business of the NFL is today. I don't see him getting a high priced long term deal unless it is heavily back loaded. He wants guaranteed money, which I think he has earned. He may want more than Giants will pay. Good comment about no run blocking. Nicks is always in the mix on the long runs. Love that about him. Can't break the bank on Cruz and risk losing Nicks. I will be sad if Victor goes, but we have the weapons to move on without him. He has a gold mine in NYC in non-football money. He won't get as much in other markets. If he stays, great. If he goes, we will keep being the New York Giants without him.

B&RWarrior
03-17-2013, 11:16 PM
Am I the only one here that wouldn't mind seeing another team sign him to an offer sheet? Having another first round pick this year would be huge even if it is in the mid-late 20s because of how much 1st round talent there is this year. I honestly don't think Cruz is worth more than $7 mil/yr. He just doesn't seem like a legitimate #1 to me and needs someone like Nicks on the other side to free him up. I know he's put up huge numbers but a lot of that is Eli and Nicks. Not saying I wouldn't want him to stay, but just looking at what we'd gain from him leaving (cap space, 1st rounder to address more pressing needs, more playing time for Randle, etc), I think I'd rather let him walk than pay more than $7mil/yr and risk losing Nicks or JPP or whoever.

I'm with you on this one. I wouldn't pay him more than Welker. The more you over pay Cruz then the more you have to overpay Nicks next year.

ElIteManning10
03-17-2013, 11:18 PM
Cruz absolutely should and will get more than guys like Welker and Amendola (Especially).

ElIteManning10
03-17-2013, 11:20 PM
If we can pay guys like Rolle 9M or whatever the hell he's making this year, we can give Cruz 8.. I'm not really willing to go higher than that.

B&RWarrior
03-17-2013, 11:22 PM
What about all the games Nicks was out? Did just fine IMO

Nah there were games this year where he went off the radar. He's not a number one. Nicks on the other hand will shine on any team in any system.

B&RWarrior
03-17-2013, 11:26 PM
Cruz absolutely should and will get more than guys like Welker and Amendola (Especially).

In what way has he trumped Welker's production? He's younger and that is the only thing going for him over Welker. I'd trade Cruz for Welker all day everyday!

ElIteManning10
03-17-2013, 11:40 PM
Wow, Welker must have killed it towards the end of the year, because I thought he did much worse than he actually did. Yeah, I would say Cruz since he's younger and likely will get better should get a bit more, but in no way is he worth anywhere near the rumored price tag of 9/10M. He is definitely bettter than Amendola though.

B&RWarrior
03-17-2013, 11:45 PM
Wow, Welker must have killed it towards the end of the year, because I thought he did much worse than he actually did. Yeah, I would say Cruz since he's younger and likely will get better should get a bit more, but in no way is he worth anywhere near the rumored price tag of 9/10M. He is definitely bettter than Amendola though.

Yeah, what is it with Amendola? I'm looking at his stats and I watched him play and I just don't see where all the love is justified. I think he disappoints in NE. Definitely a downgrade from Welker.

Drez
03-18-2013, 12:32 AM
In what way has he trumped Welker's production? He's younger and that is the only thing going for him over Welker. I'd trade Cruz for Welker all day everyday!He's a hell of a lot more dynamic and explosive of a player than Welker.

Drez
03-18-2013, 12:34 AM
Wow, Welker must have killed it towards the end of the year, because I thought he did much worse than he actually did. Yeah, I would say Cruz since he's younger and likely will get better should get a bit more, but in no way is he worth anywhere near the rumored price tag of 9/10M. He is definitely bettter than Amendola though.Welker was quiet the first few weeks of the season. It seemed like the Pats were doing what they could to not target him. After that, though, he turned it on as soon as he started getting targets.

JPP=BEASTMODE
03-18-2013, 12:54 AM
What do you think the fans do when they buy those tickets and go to those games?????They watch Football games. They don't sign checks.

Flip Empty
03-18-2013, 01:54 AM
They watch Football games. They don't sign checks.
Fans are the source of the team's funds, is what I think he was trying to say.


Welker was quiet the first few weeks of the season. It seemed like the Pats were doing what they could to not target him. After that, though, he turned it on as soon as he started getting targets.
It almost seemed like they were trying to see how they'd fare without him. Since they let him go, they must've been happy with what they'd seen.

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 02:09 AM
Like Jerry Reese has said in the past , " Offseason chatter ", everybody loves to do it in offseason.

Dorothy
03-18-2013, 06:31 AM
Am I the only one here that wouldn't mind seeing another team sign him to an offer sheet? Having another first round pick this year would be huge even if it is in the mid-late 20s because of how much 1st round talent there is this year. I honestly don't think Cruz is worth more than $7 mil/yr. He just doesn't seem like a legitimate #1 to me and needs someone like Nicks on the other side to free him up. I know he's put up huge numbers but a lot of that is Eli and Nicks. Not saying I wouldn't want him to stay, but just looking at what we'd gain from him leaving (cap space, 1st rounder to address more pressing needs, more playing time for Randle, etc), I think I'd rather let him walk than pay more than $7mil/yr and risk losing Nicks or JPP or whoever.

It seems you stand alone. He is a solid player and has lots of followers, for very good reasons. Want him to be a Giant for a very long time.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 06:55 AM
I was thinking a little more like 5/$35m-$40m with $20m-$25m guaranteed (not all signing bonus, though).

That could work at $25 M guaranteed. HOWEVER, Tisch, who had dinner with Cruz recently, has now said publicly he expects Cruz to get more than Welker.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 06:56 AM
Cruz absolutely should and will get more than guys like Welker and Amendola (Especially).

Steve Tisch agrees with you.

ryan12
03-18-2013, 09:19 AM
having an extra first rounder would be clutch that being said there is no way i want to lose cruz. he is weapon and has earned a nice payday 2 great seasons and he doesnt miss games (knock on wood) hope we lock him down for good and i agree with drez id rather him get a better signing bonus and more guaranteed money so its less of a cap hit.

bigblue58
03-18-2013, 09:51 AM
I'm telling y'all...the Giants are biding their time until he actually gets an offer from another team.... signs the offer sheet.... so they know what bottom line number he'll accept, and then decide if they want to match it or not. The Giants already tendered him so they made their move on the chess board and won't make any other offers to him until that happens.
I think Reese is confident that Cruz will be a Giant in 2013, because TB doesn't want to give up their first round pick, and they are the only ones showing serious interest in Cruz.
The Giants are in a win/win situation. Either TB relents and is willing to give away their draft pick, make Cruz an offer, then the Giants know what he's willing to take and they can decide then to match it or say bye bye with another first round pick in their pocket as a nice consolation prize for losing him!

Drez
03-18-2013, 10:04 AM
Fans are the source of the team's funds, is what I think he was trying to say.


It almost seemed like they were trying to see how they'd fare without him. Since they let him go, they must've been happy with what they'd seen.Didn't they start 1-3? lol

Drez
03-18-2013, 10:08 AM
I'm telling y'all...the Giants are biding their time until he actually gets an offer from another team.... signs the offer sheet.... so they know what bottom line number he'll accept, and then decide if they want to match it or not. The Giants already tendered him so they made their move on the chess board and won't make any other offers to him until that happens.
I think Reese is confident that Cruz will be a Giant in 2013, because TB doesn't want to give up their first round pick, and they are the only ones showing serious interest in Cruz.
The Giants are in a win/win situation. Either TB relents and is willing to give away their draft pick, make Cruz an offer, then the Giants know what he's willing to take and they can decide then to match it or say bye bye with another first round pick in their pocket as a nice consolation prize for losing him!That would be an absolutely stupid move by the FO. We need to try and get him signed before he accepts another offer. It is entirely possibly that if the team extending the offer has a lot of cap room this year than we do, that they can extend an offer whose general terms would be something we could match (years and total value), but structure in such a way that we wouldn't be able to afford him this year (say, give him $15m base this season).

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 11:31 AM
I'm telling y'all...the Giants are biding their time until he actually gets an offer from another team.... signs the offer sheet.... so they know what bottom line number he'll accept, and then decide if they want to match it or not. The Giants already tendered him so they made their move on the chess board and won't make any other offers to him until that happens.
I think Reese is confident that Cruz will be a Giant in 2013, because TB doesn't want to give up their first round pick, and they are the only ones showing serious interest in Cruz.
The Giants are in a win/win situation. Either TB relents and is willing to give away their draft pick, make Cruz an offer, then the Giants know what he's willing to take and they can decide then to match it or say bye bye with another first round pick in their pocket as a nice consolation prize for losing him!

If Cruz gets an offer sheet, he can't sign it until he presents it to the Giants and the Giants refuse to match the principal terms. If he gets more than one offer sheet, he has to pick one to present to the Giants.

The Giants have placed a first round tender and they have also made him a long term offer. The terms of the tender are not negotiable. The terms of the long term deal are very much negotiable which is why having Condon as Victor's agent makes life better on both side of the table.

No team has taken a first round tendered RFA since 2003

nygon3
03-18-2013, 02:38 PM
I think this is one of the rare times it is better to over pay.

i actually agree here... but not to the point we cant resign people in the few years upcoming

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 04:17 PM
I see a Mara slap in Tisch future
I would pay top dollars if that were to happen.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:26 PM
i actually agree here... but not to the point we cant resign people in the few years upcoming

These one year deals we are a signing now assure we will have more CAP space in 2014 and beyond got a year or two

sethm
03-18-2013, 04:59 PM
These one year deals we are a signing now assure we will have more CAP space in 2014 and beyond got a year or two

yup the new normal

ELI_HOF_NYG
03-18-2013, 05:01 PM
I trust Jerry and the FO. they will do what is necessary.

Toadofsteel
03-18-2013, 05:16 PM
These one year deals we are a signing now assure we will have more CAP space in 2014 and beyond got a year or two

This definitely has a "changing of the guard" feel to it. 2014 will be almost unrecognizable from 2011...

miked1958
03-18-2013, 05:23 PM
I'm telling y'all...the Giants are biding their time until he actually gets an offer from another team.... signs the offer sheet.... so they know what bottom line number he'll accept, and then decide if they want to match it or not. The Giants already tendered him so they made their move on the chess board and won't make any other offers to him until that happens.I think Reese is confident that Cruz will be a Giant in 2013, because TB doesn't want to give up their first round pick, and they are the only ones showing serious interest in Cruz.The Giants are in a win/win situation. Either TB relents and is willing to give away their draft pick, make Cruz an offer, then the Giants know what he's willing to take and they can decide then to match it or say bye bye with another first round pick in their pocket as a nice consolation prize for losing him!where is TBs pick in the Draft order

miked1958
03-18-2013, 05:24 PM
Ok, just saw it. They pick at number 13

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 05:44 PM
This definitely has a "changing of the guard" feel to it. 2014 will be almost unrecognizable from 2011...

Becasue they may still have to "restructure" a few now, they are looking at FA as a one year only issue so they can clear CAP space as soon as the 2013 season is over.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 05:49 PM
I will say this much. . .he was rumored to have been VERY close to signing long-term at one point last season. Anyone else remember this?? He was even publicly saying it. At that EXACT moment, his production dropped. One wonders if a well-fed VC is as effective as a hungry one.

If I noticed this, I have a feeling JR and Tisch and Mara certainly did too.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/giants_and_wr_victor_cruz_close_in_on_new_deal/12093889


The closest they got to a contract was the "structure" of any future deal. Cruz was not close to signing and negotiations trailed off right after this.

bigblue58
03-19-2013, 10:16 AM
That would be an absolutely stupid move by the FO. We need to try and get him signed before he accepts another offer. It is entirely possibly that if the team extending the offer has a lot of cap room this year than we do, that they can extend an offer whose general terms would be something we could match (years and total value), but structure in such a way that we wouldn't be able to afford him this year (say, give him $15m base this season).

Why would it be a dumb move? The Giants have a ceiling of what they're willing to pay him anyway, so either Cruz accepts an offer that is attractive for the Giants to match or it's too much and they say goodbye, It makes perfect sense for the Giants to wait and see definitively what Cruz' bottom line is. The Giants want other teams to set the price, they already tendered him so what the Giants will pay for 2013 is already set.
If TB wants to front load it and pay him 15 mil, then they're stupid and goodbye Cruz and good riddance, cuz Cruz isn't worth no 15 mil!
TB doesn't even want to give up their first round pick to get these FA's......... you think they're going to pay Cruz that much to get him? That will never happen....Cruz is gonna be a Giant in 2013.

bigal1giant
03-19-2013, 04:49 PM
Nobody likes Victor Cruz more than I! But, that said, I don't believe the G-Men are going to overpay to keep him. Why? 2011 was a banner year for Victor when Nicks was healthy and was the #1 receiver so Cruz could play the "single coverage" slot and leave most of the double coverage to Nicks. Fast forward to 2012! Nicks is banged up for a lot of the year and Cruz takes the #1 position. A decided slip in production when double covered! But, this year with, I hope and pray, a healthy Nicks, Randle and Cruz we should have one of the best receiver corps in the league! I think there are a lot of pretty smart GM's in the league that might apply the same logic when making out an offer sheet for Mr. Cruz! All of the above IMHO!!!!!!!!!

Drez
03-19-2013, 05:01 PM
Why would it be a dumb move? The Giants have a ceiling of what they're willing to pay him anyway, so either Cruz accepts an offer that is attractive for the Giants to match or it's too much and they say goodbye, It makes perfect sense for the Giants to wait and see definitively what Cruz' bottom line is. The Giants want other teams to set the price, they already tendered him so what the Giants will pay for 2013 is already set.
If TB wants to front load it and pay him 15 mil, then they're stupid and goodbye Cruz and good riddance, cuz Cruz isn't worth no 15 mil!
TB doesn't even want to give up their first round pick to get these FA's......... you think they're going to pay Cruz that much to get him? That will never happen....Cruz is gonna be a Giant in 2013.Because a team can structure a contract that we would normally want to match in such a way that we cannot match it. If a team wants Cruz enough to give a 1st for him and has an excess of cap room, it'd be dumb for them to not structure the contract in way where we can't match it. So, let's say a team offers Cruz a 5yr/$40m ($15m SB) contract. Now, if the contract is structured as they normally are I think we match that contract without flinching much about it. Now, let's say that team has $20m+ in cap space this season, so instead of structuring a gradual escalation in pay over the length of the contract, they give Cruz a first year salary of $12m. That would make his cap hit for 2013 $15m, which is something that we cannot afford, though the total value of the contract is something that we could.

blueribbon
03-20-2013, 12:57 AM
I just hope Cruz isn't trying to hold the Giants up for more then 8mil per year.

630

RoanokeFan
03-20-2013, 07:09 AM
I just hope Cruz isn't trying to hold the Giants up for more then 8mil per year.

630

Isn't he entitled to negotiate the best deal he can get, or should he just take the first offer and be grateful?

fansince69
03-20-2013, 07:12 AM
Isn't he entitled to negotiate the best deal he can get, or should he just take the first offer and be grateful?That would make him an imgrate....wouldn't it?

GCGiant
03-20-2013, 07:23 AM
I think the past has shown a couple of things. 1) Eli will make it work with anybody with hands, some speed, moves, and courage. 2) People leave and often end up in oblivion.

RoanokeFan
03-20-2013, 08:17 AM
That would make him an imgrate....wouldn't it?

In some circles, this is true

bigblue58
03-23-2013, 06:36 AM
Because a team can structure a contract that we would normally want to match in such a way that we cannot match it. If a team wants Cruz enough to give a 1st for him and has an excess of cap room, it'd be dumb for them to not structure the contract in way where we can't match it. So, let's say a team offers Cruz a 5yr/$40m ($15m SB) contract. Now, if the contract is structured as they normally are I think we match that contract without flinching much about it. Now, let's say that team has $20m+ in cap space this season, so instead of structuring a gradual escalation in pay over the length of the contract, they give Cruz a first year salary of $12m. That would make his cap hit for 2013 $15m, which is something that we cannot afford, though the total value of the contract is something that we could.

They aren't going to go through all that trouble when they are putting more of a priority on keeping their first rounder than signing anybody! It's a deal breaker....everything else is moot.

DaveBrown
03-23-2013, 09:15 AM
13m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch says likely Cruz will get offer sheet but doesn't know from who. He wants Cruz to be Giant forever.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

13m Bart Hubbuch Bart Hubbuch ‏@HubbuchNYP
Tisch predicts that Victor Cruz will command more than the $6M-per-year average that fellow slot WRs Welker and Amendola just got. Retweeted by Patricia Traina

12m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch thinks Cruz will get more than the $6 million per year that slot receivers Welker and Amendola got.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

11m Ian Rapoport Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet
Tisch said the Giants will go as far as they can to keep Victor Cruz. He added that a change of agents to Tom Condon is a positive step
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

10m Tom Rock Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Tisch says Giants working on David Diehl pay cut similar to Webster's with bonus & voidable year. "I think he's an asset," he said of Diehl
.
10m Gary Myers Gary Myers ‏@garymyersNYDN
Tisch says five day window before new agent Tom Condon can begin negotiating for Cruz expired Friday.
Retweeted by Ed Valentine

6m Patricia Traina Patricia Traina ‏@Patricia_Traina
Am guessing if Cruz gets more than $6M per year, he's likely gone.

3m GiantsWFAN GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan
RT @TomRock_Newsday Is Cruz going to get in the $6m per range that Welker got? Tisch: "I think Victor is going to get higher than that."
2m GiantsWFAN GiantsWFAN ‏@giantswfan

RT @TomRock_Newsday Tisch says he expects a team will make an offer to Cruz: "We're going to go as far as we can go to keep him on the team
2m Tom Rock Tom Rock ‏@TomRock_Newsday
Tisch said Giants "waiting to see what the ask is" from Cruz and Condon. As of 10 minutes ago, I can guarantee it'll be more than $6m per.


Tisch should sell his shares back to the Mara's - grubby paws all over the Lombardi before Mara.