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bigjeep
03-18-2013, 07:00 AM
PHOENIX — The Giants don’t think they’re out of the woods just yet when it comes to losing Victor Cruz.

In fact, Big Blue co-owner Steve Tisch said yesterday the team is bracing itself for what he considers a “probable” offer from another club for the Pro Bowl restricted free agent wide receiver.


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/giants/big_blue_bracing_for_offer_to_wr_JRx41LVTmX7QDyFVH Ct3NM

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 09:03 AM
Ny Post ... would have more credibility if it were being reported in Mad Magazine.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 09:42 AM
Ny Post ... would have more credibility if it were being reported in Mad Magazine.

OUCH

blueribbon
03-18-2013, 09:56 AM
Ny Post ... would have more credibility if it were being reported in Mad Magazine.

LOL

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/MAD-Magazine-Alfred-E-Neuman-Norman-Mingo.jpg

Harooni
03-18-2013, 09:58 AM
yes i do think he will get an offer and a team would gladly give up a first rounder on someone they already know can produce at the nfl level. back to back 1000 yards is nothing to sneeze at.

bigjeep
03-18-2013, 10:04 AM
Ny Post ... would have more credibility if it were being reported in Mad Magazine.

Still, a step up from the NY Times!

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 10:05 AM
yes i do think he will get an offer and a team would gladly give up a first rounder on someone they already know can produce at the nfl level. back to back 1000 yards is nothing to sneeze at.

So far, every team mentioned has faded into the background. Now that Codon is on board, I'd be surprised if Cruz doesn't sign a long term deal here.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 10:07 AM
yes i do think he will get an offer and a team would gladly give up a first rounder on someone they already know can produce at the nfl level. back to back 1000 yards is nothing to sneeze at.
I think its very unlikely that he will get an offer. That's a very steep price and all the potential players with a need seem to be gone.

bigjeep
03-18-2013, 10:08 AM
So far, every team mentioned has faded into the background. Now that Codon is on board, I'd be surprised if Cruz doesn't sign a long term deal here.


Best case scenario!

Harooni
03-18-2013, 10:09 AM
I think its very unlikely that he will get an offer. That's a very steep price and all the potential players with a need seem to be gone. i dont think its the draft pick but yeah the dollar amount is steep i agree. i guess we will see. i know i wouldnt mind losing a mid or late first rounder on a guy i know. suppose that first rounder doesnt adjust to the nfl level its a gamble.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 10:12 AM
i dont think its the draft pick but yeah the dollar amount is steep i agree. i guess we will see. i know i wouldnt mind losing a mid or late first rounder on a guy i know. suppose that first rounder doesnt adjust to the nfl level its a gamble.
Its both, but its mostly the pick. If he was unrestricted, he'd be on a team by now. He's an outstanding player. A first round pick is a huge price when you have to pay the kid as well.
I am actually more convinced that he will sign a deal with us once its clear that the restricted nature of his standing in the FA market is keeping him from getting an offer.

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 11:25 AM
Its both, but its mostly the pick. If he was unrestricted, he'd be on a team by now. He's an outstanding player. A first round pick is a huge price when you have to pay the kid as well.
I am actually more convinced that he will sign a deal with us once its clear that the restricted nature of his standing in the FA market is keeping him from getting an offer.

This ^^^^

TCHOF
03-18-2013, 11:32 AM
I'm not sure what team they think an offer will be coming from. It seems like all the potential suitors are gone.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 11:36 AM
I'm not sure what team they think an offer will be coming from. It seems like all the potential suitors are gone.

Anything is possible, but it really does seem like this is very remote

B&RWarrior
03-18-2013, 11:48 AM
I've asked this in another thread, why would you pay him more than Welker?

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 11:51 AM
I've asked this in another thread, why would you pay him more than Welker?

He's younger (5 years) and he's more of a home run threat than Welker is.

You can run Cruz on the outside ... you can't really do that with Welker (he doesn't have the speed to be an outside threat).

He also doesn't have an ACL injury on his resume.

And don't forget, Welker turned down an $8M/year offer by the Titans. He's playing with the Broncos for less money.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 11:52 AM
I've asked this in another thread, why would you pay him more than Welker?

Becasue he's better than Welker and certainly has more potential than Welker.

tonyt830
03-18-2013, 12:01 PM
I think that as long as Cruz and Condon don't ask for 9 or 10 million a year, I think he will be back in a Giants uni in 2013. Not many teams want to part with a 1st rd pick and sign a huge contract. But there are teams out there that are in good shape in regards to cap space. And one thing to consider with a 1st rd pick---there is no guarantee that pick would turn out to be a boom.

Any team that would consider making an offer for Cruz has to think, is there a WR worthy of drafting in the 1st rd in this years draft that just stands out and is going to be the next Fitzgerald, Megatron, Andre Johnson, Green, etc.?

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 12:06 PM
There is a reason no team has given up a RFA first round tender since 2003

blueman1
03-18-2013, 12:11 PM
Becasue he's better than Welker and certainly has more potential than Welker.

I don't know about that? Welker has more catches over the past 6 or 7 years than anyone in the league.

I love Cruz but if we could get a 1st rounder and a third let him go. He got his bell rung a couple times last year bad. I don't know how durable he's going to wind up being in the long haul.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 12:16 PM
I don't know about that? Welker has more catches over the past 6 or 7 years than anyone in the league.

I love Cruz but if we could get a 1st rounder and a third let him go. He got his bell rung a couple times last year bad. I don't know how durable he's going to wind up being in the long haul.

OK, fact check. We can't get a 1st and 3rd round pick for Cruz. That changed with the last CBA. We only get a 1st round pick.

Having more catches is great, but Cruz is more versatile as he can, and does, operate on the outside as well as in the slot. The fact that "he got his bell rung" and never missed a game is in his favor.

Potential is what Cruz has far above whatever Welker has left. Welker turned down more $ to go to Denver. That indicates he's at the end of his career and he knows it. He wants to get to the Super Bowl

blueman1
03-18-2013, 12:20 PM
I agree Cruz has more in the tank but he was laying on the field convulsing last year more than once. I have come to the assumption after watching Eli for years is that Eli is what makes the receivers good. Not the receivers. Every time we let someone good go they wind up sucking. i.e. Smith and Manningham.

We have a QB that can put the ball anywhere. That's why our receivers are so good. I'm not so sure Cruz would be a star if he left. He might want to think about that.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 12:23 PM
I agree Cruz has more in the tank but he was laying on the field convulsing last year more than once. I have come to the assumption after watching Eli for years is that Eli is what makes the receivers good. Not the receivers. Every time we let someone good go they wind up sucking. i.e. Smith and Manningham.

We have a QB that can put the ball anywhere. That's why our receivers are so good. I'm not so sure Cruz would be a star if he left. He might want to think about that.

Convulsing?

Cruz is a talented reeciver as is Nicks.

bigjeep
03-18-2013, 12:54 PM
I agree Cruz has more in the tank but he was laying on the field convulsing last year more than once. I have come to the assumption after watching Eli for years is that Eli is what makes the receivers good. Not the receivers. Every time we let someone good go they wind up sucking. i.e. Smith and Manningham.

We have a QB that can put the ball anywhere. That's why our receivers are so good. I'm not so sure Cruz would be a star if he left. He might want to think about that.

Manningham was having a very good year until his injury!

njg85m
03-18-2013, 01:14 PM
Becasue he's better than Welker and certainly has more potential than Welker.

I don't know about that...The first part anyway.

IMO, Welker is still the best slot guy in the NFL, and probably will continue to be for the next 1-2 years.

Cruz is younger and has more potential, give me Cruz anyday. As far as him being 'better' than Welker right now, I disagree.

darrin99
03-18-2013, 01:15 PM
Manningham was having a very good year until his injury!

He just too a 50% paycut too, so he wouldn't get cut.

BigBlueOnes
03-18-2013, 01:56 PM
I love Cruz, but I fear he's one more huge hit away from losing all confidence over the middle. I just think that last hit stayed with him. If we got a first rounder I''d say goodbye, sad as that is.

JJC7301
03-18-2013, 01:59 PM
At this point I'm resigned to whatever happens, happens. I'd rather keep him, but at least we'll get a 1st rounder out of it if he's gone (and they'd better make that 1st rounder count -- no Sintims).

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 02:03 PM
I love Cruz, but I fear he's one more huge hit away from losing all confidence over the middle. I just think that last hit stayed with him. If we got a first rounder I''d say goodbye, sad as that is.

It's not likely he'll get an offer sheet. All of the facts we know seem to indicate a desire by him to stay here and a desire by the team to have him here. No guarantees, but if anyone can make it work, it's Reese and Condon

darrin99
03-18-2013, 02:03 PM
When it's all said and done, I don't expect anyone making an offer before the draft, and Cruz will eventually sign a contract in the $7-$8m range.

PennState1
03-18-2013, 02:10 PM
It feels like the Giants are almost inviting an offer. Why talk about it at all?

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 02:12 PM
It feels like the Giants are almost inviting an offer. Why talk about it at all?

It's a reality they have to deal with.

AGiantDynasty
03-18-2013, 02:43 PM
It feels like the Giants are almost inviting an offer. Why talk about it at all?

I thought the same thing. It almost seemed like they were fishing for a 1st round pick.. Reality or not, I still dont think you need to talk about.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 02:45 PM
I thought the same thing. It almost seemed like they were fishing for a 1st round pick.. Reality or not, I still dont think you need to talk about.

You're talking about a "risk" that no team has taken since 2003.

jomo
03-18-2013, 02:50 PM
It's a reality they have to deal with.Why is Tisch talking about it? I know he's an owner but he's not the GM and he's not the President of the club. He's not going to help at all but could fumble his words and hurt some. I'd rather hear from Mara, Reese or no one on matters like this.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 02:55 PM
Why is Tisch talking about it? I know he's an owner but he's not the GM and he's not the President of the club. He's not going to help at all but could fumble his words and hurt some. I'd rather hear from Mara, Reese or no one on matters like this.

Either it's a carefully orchestrated part of their strategy or Jerry Reese has now invoked the cone of silence until he and Condon come to agreement on a long term deal. It really is unusual for Tisch to say anything about contracts though. AND he and Cruz went to dinner. Interesting tid-bit.

jomo
03-18-2013, 03:17 PM
Either it's a carefully orchestrated part of their strategy or Jerry Reese has now invoked the cone of silence until he and Condon come to agreement on a long term deal. It really is unusual for Tisch to say anything about contracts though. AND he and Cruz went to dinner. Interesting tid-bit.Hey if it is carefully orchestrated then I accept it. I just know that in general the more people yapping their flap (or is it flapping their yapr? lol) the greater chance there is for something wrong to slip out. I guess I am used to watching the Green team across the parking lot bungle one communication after another.

gmen2117
03-18-2013, 03:36 PM
So far, every team mentioned has faded into the background. Now that Codon is on board, I'd be surprised if Cruz doesn't sign a long term deal here.
Let's hope so

AGiantDynasty
03-18-2013, 03:38 PM
You're talking about a "risk" that no team has taken since 2003.

I agree, but Cruz is probably the most dynamic player that has been in this situation in the last 10+ years. Laveranues Coles was the last player and Cruz has by far more potential then Coles had when he was taken.

All I know is that if I was a team with the 25 or later draft pick and needed a WR, it would be an absolute no brainer. Draft picks are all gambles, Cruz is proven and versatile.

I am not saying its going to happen, I'm just saying its a possibility and that it seemed like Tisch was fishing for a 1st round pick..

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:17 PM
I agree, but Cruz is probably the most dynamic player that has been in this situation in the last 10+ years. Laveranues Coles was the last player and Cruz has by far more potential then Coles had when he was taken.

All I know is that if I was a team with the 25 or later draft pick and needed a WR, it would be an absolute no brainer. Draft picks are all gambles, Cruz is proven and versatile.

I am not saying its going to happen, I'm just saying its a possibility and that it seemed like Tisch was fishing for a 1st round pick..

The best thing to happen this week is Cruz having Condon for is agent.

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 04:20 PM
You're talking about a "risk" that no team has taken since 2003.

That's not exactly a huge amount of time though, so let's not act like a tendered player hasn't been taken in the past 100 years.

It will or won't happen .... the Giants benefit from any scenario here short of Cruz being hit by lightning. :D

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:23 PM
That's not exactly a huge amount of time though, so let's not act like a tendered player hasn't been taken in the past 100 years.

It will or won't happen .... the Giants benefit from any scenario here short of Cruz being hit by lightning. :D

At my age, 10 years is a long time :)

I think they are all working to get the same result.

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:28 PM
At my age, 10 years is a long time :)

I think they are all working to get the same result.
10 years is actually to long a sampling time. The league has changed tremendously since then. The cap is hyper-tight on a lot of teams right now.

jomo
03-18-2013, 04:35 PM
10 years is actually to long a sampling time. The league has changed tremendously since then. The cap is hyper-tight on a lot of teams right now.I agree with that. This is a whole new ballgame and the dynamic is changing rapidly. Look at how salaries are collapsing and the large number of one year contracts. It is always true the past doesn't guarantee the future but in the NFL and right now that is especially true.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:37 PM
10 years is actually to long a sampling time. The league has changed tremendously since then. The cap is hyper-tight on a lot of teams right now.

I would not be surprised if they don't lock Victor up soon. Condon knows is way around the NFL and should be able to determine if there are going to be any offer sheets coming his way . It's to his benefit to have one or two but even without any, he can get Cruz a decent long term deal just based on what Mara and Tisch have said publicly.

I have to think Reese almost exploded about Tisch saying Cruz would get more than Welker UNLESS their current offer is already more than Welker signed for.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:37 PM
I agree with that. This is a whole new ballgame and the dynamic is changing rapidly. Look at how salaries are collapsing and the large number of one year contracts. It is always true the past doesn't guarantee the future but in the NFL and right now that is especially true.

It sure seems to be heading that way this year.

rebelfan1966
03-18-2013, 04:40 PM
Cruz also needs to factor in he plays for a proven SBMVP that can deliver.....

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:43 PM
Cruz also needs to factor in he plays for a proven SBMVP that can deliver.....
He plays with one, not for one.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:45 PM
Cruz also needs to factor in he plays for a proven SBMVP that can deliver.....

I'd say Eli, Nicks, and Cruz deliver for each other and the team.

rebelfan1966
03-18-2013, 04:54 PM
Yall know what I meant....

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 04:56 PM
Yall know what I meant....
There are a lot of good QB's in the league.
I'm sure Cruz would much rather stay here. But he can flourish with other QB's. He actually seems like a guy who would do well in a west coast system.

RoanokeFan
03-18-2013, 04:58 PM
There are a lot of good QB's in the league.
I'm sure Cruz would much rather stay here. But he can flourish with other QB's. He actually seems like a guy who would do well in a west coast system.

+1

rebelfan1966
03-18-2013, 04:59 PM
I think he's doing fine in the system he's in now.... True, there are a lot of quality QBs in the league, but not all of them are toting the hardware like our guy.

rebelfan1966
03-18-2013, 05:00 PM
+1

-1 (kidding)

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 05:00 PM
I think he's doing fine in the system he's in now.... True, there are a lot of quality QBs in the league, but not all of them are toting the hardware like our guy.
Cruz has some hardware too.

rebelfan1966
03-18-2013, 05:02 PM
Cruz has some hardware too.

Yep, he does.... having a good QB helps make that possible ;-)

Morehead State
03-18-2013, 05:03 PM
Yep, he does.... having a good QB helps make that possible ;-)
I'm not continuing this dance with you.

rebelfan1966
03-18-2013, 05:06 PM
I'm not continuing this dance with you.

Well.... be that way then ;-)

byron
03-18-2013, 05:13 PM
I agree with that. This is a whole new ballgame and the dynamic is changing rapidly. Look at how salaries are collapsing and the large number of one year contracts. It is always true the past doesn't guarantee the future but in the NFL and right now that is especially true.
I agree I was reading this artical today not giants related but does speak to the changes we are seeing


http://www.bucsnation.com/2013/3/17/4116476/2013-nfl-free-agency-buccaneers-philosophy-darrelle-revis

AntB
03-19-2013, 05:03 AM
He can't take a hit at all and he knows' it. That's why he's always wimping out when he thinks he might be hit. I guaranty he get's the big money and he starts spending lot's of time on the sidelines. We replaced Smith and Eli will make the next guy after Cruz if necessary. like others have said though; probably no ones going to gamble giving this guy big money plus losing a fist. We can always hope though. remember, Randle still has huge potential and Nicks is really the man.

StrahanSoup92
03-19-2013, 06:19 AM
And this is all to be expected. I know fans want the Giants to just sign him, but thats not going to happen. They have him for another year, to watch his production and make sure he stays healthy before signing him. The only way hes getting signed before this season, is if another team makes an offer and we have to match.

Hey I dont like it anymore than anyone else, but its a business. Its just the way it is. You ride it out and make sure Cruz stays healthy, then resign him.

TCHOF
03-19-2013, 07:13 AM
He can't take a hit at all and he knows' it. That's why he's always wimping out when he thinks he might be hit. I guaranty he get's the big money and he starts spending lot's of time on the sidelines. We replaced Smith and Eli will make the next guy after Cruz if necessary. like others have said though; probably no ones going to gamble giving this guy big money plus losing a fist. We can always hope though. remember, Randle still has huge potential and Nicks is really the man.

Ridiculous. I love it when message board geeks call professional football players "wimps".

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 07:53 AM
He can't take a hit at all and he knows' it. That's why he's always wimping out when he thinks he might be hit. I guaranty he get's the big money and he starts spending lot's of time on the sidelines. We replaced Smith and Eli will make the next guy after Cruz if necessary. like others have said though; probably no ones going to gamble giving this guy big money plus losing a fist. We can always hope though. remember, Randle still has huge potential and Nicks is really the man.

This is just so wrong. How many games did Cruz miss last season? Can you help me understand "always wimping (sp) out"? How does he lead the team in receptions two years straight if that's the case.

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 07:53 AM
And now the Rams are out of the hunt according to the NY Post.

Morehead State
03-19-2013, 09:23 AM
Ridiculous. I love it when message board geeks call professional football players "wimps".
Ha! This is an excellent point.
Sitting in the comfy confines of their bedroom, posting on a MB calling guys who play NFL football "wimps".

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 09:26 AM
Before you guys jump all over the guy he does make a good point ... Cruz definitely caught a case of the yips last season at certain points (and in his defense he did take some massive shots over the middle).

I wouldn't say that defines him but lets not pretend we didn't all see the alligator arms now and again.

Morehead State
03-19-2013, 09:29 AM
Before you guys jump all over the guy he does make a good point ... Cruz definitely caught a case of the yips last season at certain points (and in his defense he did take some massive shots over the middle).

I wouldn't say that defines him but lets not pretend we didn't all see the alligator arms now and again.
A small glitch in what is otherwise a lot of game.

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 09:32 AM
Before you guys jump all over the guy he does make a good point ... Cruz definitely caught a case of the yips last season at certain points (and in his defense he did take some massive shots over the middle).

I wouldn't say that defines him but lets not pretend we didn't all see the alligator arms now and again.

I think it's more a case of concentration. He makes his living by making the frist defender miss. He sometimes takes that peek before he has the ball. Many see that as his being scared, which I don't buy. He has taken some serious hits, gets up and continues to play. What else do we want him to do, besides catch everything?

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 09:53 AM
A small glitch in what is otherwise a lot of game.

I would wholeheartedly agree.


I think it's more a case of concentration. He makes his living by making the frist defender miss. He sometimes takes that peek before he has the ball. Many see that as his being scared, which I don't buy. He has taken some serious hits, gets up and continues to play. What else do we want him to do, besides catch everything?

We're talking about two different things. He does have a habit of looking up field before securing the ball, causing a lot of easy drops yes. But last year he also caught a case of the yips, looking at the oncoming tackler before securing the ball. That's just worrying about being hit. I don't fault the guy, but I wanted to point out that the poster wasn't totally off base. While I wouldn't go so far as to call Cruz a "wimp" you could definitely tell it was weighing on his mind after the first big hit he took across the middle last year.

Just playing Devil's Advocate. You can return to bashing the Devil now :D

Shockeystays08
03-19-2013, 10:28 AM
I would wholeheartedly agree.



We're talking about two different things. He does have a habit of looking up field before securing the ball, causing a lot of easy drops yes. But last year he also caught a case of the yips, looking at the oncoming tackler before securing the ball. That's just worrying about being hit. I don't fault the guy, but I wanted to point out that the poster wasn't totally off base. While I wouldn't go so far as to call Cruz a "wimp" you could definitely tell it was weighing on his mind after the first big hit he took across the middle last year.

Just playing Devil's Advocate. You can return to bashing the Devil now :D

Well stated! Wimp no, gun shy yes. Cruz has a lot of talent and brings big play potential . However he dropped an awful lot of catchable balls and at times looked more worried about being hit than catching the ball. There is no denying it unless your heads in the sand. he needs to man up a bit. Everyone doesn't have to be equally in love with Cruz on this board.

TCHOF
03-19-2013, 10:28 AM
Ha! This is an excellent point.
Sitting in the comfy confines of their bedroom, posting on a MB calling guys who play NFL football "wimps".

And I was not being mean . . . .since I proudly consider myself one of the message board "geeks" that I was refering to!

Carter.525
03-19-2013, 10:38 AM
The deadline for other trams to sign restricted free agent Victor Cruz to an offer sheet is April 19.
There's still a month to go before the deadline, but we don't expect an offer to come through at this point. Any team signing Cruz would have to surrender a first-round pick and pay him as a top-10 (or better) wideout. Given the state of the market and lack of cap space around the league, it's unrealistic. Once April 19 passes, the only team Cruz will be able to play for in 2013 is the Giants.

Source: New York Daily News

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 10:49 AM
And for the record, I have absolutely no moral qualms about calling Jay Cutler a wimp from the confines of my Cheeto-encrusted couch :p

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 11:20 AM
I would wholeheartedly agree. We're talking about two different things. He does have a habit of looking up field before securing the ball, causing a lot of easy drops yes. But last year he also caught a case of the yips, looking at the oncoming tackler before securing the ball. That's just worrying about being hit. I don't fault the guy, but I wanted to point out that the poster wasn't totally off base. While I wouldn't go so far as to call Cruz a "wimp" you could definitely tell it was weighing on his mind after the first big hit he took across the middle last year. Just playing Devil's Advocate. You can return to bashing the Devil now :D We just diaagree

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 11:21 AM
We just diaagree

Sok RF ... you can't always be the voice of reason :D

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 11:24 AM
Source: New York Daily News At this point a team would almost have to lose a top receiver to an accident to put in an offer sheet.

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 11:25 AM
Sok RF ... you can't always be the voice of reason :D You are in the majority

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 11:26 AM
At this point a team would almost have to lose a top receiver to an accident to put in an offer sheet.

Jinx

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 11:28 AM
Jinx Your cat?

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 11:32 AM
Your cat?

Do you really need me making ***** jokes now?

tonyt830
03-19-2013, 12:07 PM
I want Cruz to remain with the Giants at a fair price.

But with that said, teams have until April 19th to make Cruz an offer. It may not be the Rams or Vikings, but there is a chance that another team will make Cruz and his agent an offer. If that offer is within the Giants range to match, I'm sure they will match it. But we still have about 30 days until we can definitively say that Cruz will be in a Giants uni next season.