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View Full Version : Just got into a huge debate with a co-worker about RG3



flashnando
03-18-2013, 12:26 PM
He is a huge Skins fan and says that RG3 will light it up this coming year. My argument to him was that after this bad knee injury he wont be as mobile or a huge threat to run anymore. The defenses around the league will be able to defend him a lot better knowing he can't run or won't be allowed to run as much. His argument was that RG3 has the arm and pocket presence to repeat what he did last year and put up even bigger numbers, in other words he believer RG3 will dominate as a pocket passer.

I know RG3 is not a Vick type player but am I wrong in thinking he won't be effective as a pocket passer as we was with the option play? I know the kid has a good arm but there is a lot more to being a successful QB year in and year out then having a good arm. Not saying he will be rex grossman but i doubt he will have a season like he did last year.

thoughts?

nygpolishpunk
03-18-2013, 12:30 PM
If RG3 is to re-establish himself as a pocket passer he would have to be developed into one by the coaches. I've been saying this all along. He could be really dangerous as a passer. I just don't think his coaches are patient enough to take a few seasons of development. They want results fast and because of that he'll continue to run and put himself more in harm's way.

darrin99
03-18-2013, 12:31 PM
RG3 is in a tough situation. If he choses to play like he did last season, he could put up huge numbers, but more than likely his career will be very short. If he turns himself into a true pocket passer, he could still be good, but it takes away the one thing that makes him dynamic. Chose your poison.

miked1958
03-18-2013, 12:34 PM
I agree with you 150 percent. Even without the injury I don't think he would have the type season he had last year. History says he won't. Look at a the other QBs that had break out yrs their first season only to be figured out in their second season by defenses and have bad yrs. I'm speaking of Cam Newton and Vince Young... Even Vick for the most part was figured out and started to take a pounding after while...

Rudyy
03-18-2013, 12:34 PM
He has to learn to be a pure pocket passer if your co-worker thinks he's going to put up monster numbers, even better than last year.
Meaning, he's going to have to learn a pro-style offense.

TAILGATIN'
03-18-2013, 12:39 PM
Depends how the healing goes. If he's back to 100% then he's gonna be a huge problem to contain for us. As much as I dislike the skins, they got a great qb drafting this guy. If he works on his pocket skills and throwing under pressure I think he'll be a force to be reckoned with. At the same time, we may never see the same RG3 again if this knee turns out to be a bigger problem than their FO is advertising it as.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/12/griffins-knee-creates-more-concern-than-advertised/

nygpolishpunk
03-18-2013, 12:40 PM
RG3 is in a tough situation. If he choses to play like he did last season, he could put up huge numbers, but more than likely his career will be very short. If he turns himself into a true pocket passer, he could still be good, but it takes away the one thing that makes him dynamic. Chose your poison.
If Shanahan was smart about this he'd try to drill it into RG3's head that he should re-apply his mobility to help his passing game. Teach him to slide and only run if there's absolutely no other option. That way he'd still be dynamic but still a passer. All of that takes time. They'd have to invest at least another season or two teaching him that style of play. It just won't happen.

darrin99
03-18-2013, 12:41 PM
I agree with you 150 percent. Even without the injury I don't think he would have the type season he had last year. History says he won't. Look at a the other QBs that had break out yrs their first season only to be figured out in their second season by defenses and have bad yrs. I'm speaking of Cam Newton and Vince Young... Even Vick for the most part was figured out and started to take a pounding after while...

Vince Young's biggest problem was his head and heart, but that's a whole other story.

Kruunch
03-18-2013, 12:41 PM
He is a huge Skins fan and says that RG3 will light it up this coming year. My argument to him was that after this bad knee injury he wont be as mobile or a huge threat to run anymore. The defenses around the league will be able to defend him a lot better knowing he can't run or won't be allowed to run as much. His argument was that RG3 has the arm and pocket presence to repeat what he did last year and put up even bigger numbers, in other words he believer RG3 will dominate as a pocket passer.

I know RG3 is not a Vick type player but am I wrong in thinking he won't be effective as a pocket passer as we was with the option play? I know the kid has a good arm but there is a lot more to being a successful QB year in and year out then having a good arm. Not saying he will be rex grossman but i doubt he will have a season like he did last year.

thoughts?


Lol he might not even play this year.

miked1958
03-18-2013, 12:43 PM
RG however is not going to be the same QB he was last season for a long long time, if ever and you can bank on that. That was a horrific injury he suffered. He can say all the positive things he wants but he knows deep down he will be scared and hesitant he will have a career ending event if he hurts it again, therefore he will be tentative. after the college injury ACL and the tweaking it during the few games prior to the playoff. Then getting hurt further in the the playoff game, right their was enough to bench him for the season playoff game or not. But no, stupid skins coaches had to push the envelope and now they may have ruined their future by playing him to long.. He will be know as RG -3 next season. Meaning he will be taking a beating losing yards,behind the line of scrimmage when he takes a knee or falls down to avoid being hit

bklyn1028
03-18-2013, 12:46 PM
Call it "sophomore blues" or beginners luck.....but it does happen to some QB's who had a rookie breakout year, only to fizzle in their second year. Cam Newton is a prime example. Not to say that will happen to R2D2....but it might. Regardless, the way the Giants were the first team a couple years ago to spy Vick (Rolle never left the front line), and show the rest of the league how to stop him, I do not think the boy wonder will have the same success in 2013. #1 his knee might not be 100%, and that could put him in a dangerously career-ending predicament. Not to say his knee isn't fine, but it is a variable. #2 we don't know how successful he will be as a pocket passer yet (with him and his coaches knowing he can't or they won't allow him to run as he did last year).

Should be a very interesting 2013 for all teams....lots of free agent goings on around the nation.

Sundown
03-18-2013, 12:50 PM
I think Shanahan borderline ruined RG3s career and the only way he'll have a really good season is if he's a freak like Peterson. The game will be tougher if he has to stay in the pocket.

egyptian420
03-18-2013, 12:53 PM
I'll tell you what, he'll be a steal in most fantasy drafts in the later rounds. I'd take a chance on him.

giantsfan420
03-18-2013, 12:59 PM
If RG3 is to re-establish himself as a pocket passer he would have to be developed into one by the coaches. I've been saying this all along. He could be really dangerous as a passer. I just don't think his coaches are patient enough to take a few seasons of development. They want results fast and because of that he'll continue to run and put himself more in harm's way.washington for all intent and purpose, has gone out of their way to ruin this kid. first, they dont try installing a pro nfl offense in any way. the qb has 1 read on every play, run or pass. on run plays, his read is the DE's. On pass plays, his 1 read is the designed target and if hes covered, run.
then, they play him when he suffers a legit knee injury, and he reinjures it way worse...to the point rg3s surgeon said he had nightmares about washington playing him and how he actually never even cleared him and how any type of re injury could mean the end of his career...

that knee isnt only pivotal to rg3 running, but its also the plant and power leg in his throwing motion. washington SHOULD revert to a pro offense predicated on the qb going thru his progressions in the pocket. thing is, can rg3 even do that? shannahan wasnt even sold on rg3 at the time of that draft, maybe bc of that question mark about his game. the thing is, if they ar gonna go to a more pocket passing offense, rg3 is gonna struggle...a lot. hes gnna have to go thru the growing pains and mistakes that honestly he should have started working on his first offseason/season.

washington somehow managed to turn a sure thing like rg3 into a serious serious question mark.

talbot
03-18-2013, 01:01 PM
I think he heals up fine. Kid is going to be a top 5 QB soon, unfortunately for us.

GameTime
03-18-2013, 01:02 PM
I see no reason why he shoudlnt be the same QB as he was lat season. I see the Skins limiting his running but he will still run you can bet on that.
It will be more of opposing Ds getting used to the option and playing better more than anything else.
I also believe he will be an effective pocket passer. The kid has huge upside whether running or not IMO.

giantsfan420
03-18-2013, 01:04 PM
also, i doubt hes even ready by opening week. iirc, his rehab process takes him right up to that final week of preseason so it could be close...so thats an offseason he coulda learned or started the learning process on being a true pocket passer that is wasted...Cousins showed he could have a bright future. would be so interesting if he progresses and shows he can run an actual nfl offense while rg3 has to learn to do so...

flashnando
03-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Thanks for all the replies! so i guess i wasn't completely wrong in the debate, he kept laughing at me when i told him that his ability to run is a big part of his success and without that it will be tougher to throw and be successful. The debate will continue until the season starts lol

Delicreep
03-18-2013, 01:27 PM
I see no reason why he shoudlnt be the same QB as he was lat season. I see the Skins limiting his running but he will still run you can bet on that.
It will be more of opposing Ds getting used to the option and playing better more than anything else.
I also believe he will be an effective pocket passer. The kid has huge upside whether running or not IMO.

I agree, guy looked solid in the pocket to me and a nightmare on the read option.

I think that the trouble for RGIII is gonna come on read option plays, and it's not really the ones where he runs that are gonna catch up with him.
Like it or not, some players are gonna level him after he hands off to Morris (who should have been ROY), and he's gonna take a beating without ever carrying the ball.

darrin99
03-18-2013, 01:27 PM
Thanks for all the replies! so i guess i wasn't completely wrong in the debate, he kept laughing at me when i told him that his ability to run is a big part of his success and without that it will be tougher to throw and be successful. The debate will continue until the season starts lol

If he truly believes that RG3's ability to run doesn't contribute to what makes him special, then he's clueless and there's no sense debating him.

pino
03-18-2013, 01:44 PM
Bob is going to be RG1.5 if he keeps it up.

Giants5699
03-18-2013, 01:49 PM
3-4 years max in the league for RG3. He will not last. QB's like him get hurt badly every season. It isn't a matter of 'if', so much as 'when'.

G-Men Surg.
03-18-2013, 01:52 PM
He is a huge Skins fan and says that RG3 will light it up this coming year. My argument to him was that after this bad knee injury he wont be as mobile or a huge threat to run anymore. The defenses around the league will be able to defend him a lot better knowing he can't run or won't be allowed to run as much. His argument was that RG3 has the arm and pocket presence to repeat what he did last year and put up even bigger numbers, in other words he believer RG3 will dominate as a pocket passer.

I know RG3 is not a Vick type player but am I wrong in thinking he won't be effective as a pocket passer as we was with the option play? I know the kid has a good arm but there is a lot more to being a successful QB year in and year out then having a good arm. Not saying he will be rex grossman but i doubt he will have a season like he did last year.

thoughts?
RGIII is a great talented player but nothing is the same when you have that kind of injury. That been said he still will be a hand-full to go against 2 times every year. Your friend is just frustraded because he knows deep down inside RGIII by all definitions is " damage goods " and he's pissed he has to deal with a crappy ownership and FO. Bad managment puts you behind the eight ball, cap salary penalties will bring lots of problems for years to come and not having a 1st round pick this and next year also doesn't help.
Oh yea, it stinks being a Deadskin fan.

BlueSanta
03-18-2013, 02:01 PM
Kinda torn on this 1.

People are arguing that RG3 has to learn to be a pocket passer when in fact, he knows how. He is a tallented guy. I hate the Skins fosho, but RG3 is a good pocket passer too. The problem is the organization, and especially the coaching staff there have completely ignored his safety.

All you need do is watch the game he got hurt. the docs didnt even examine him on the sideline when he 1st came out. It is the 2nd time this year they ignored his safety. No, Im sorry, it was like the 16th game they ignored his safety because an option offense in the NFL is going to get your QB murdered.

Shanahan has gotten in trouble for ignoring player safety once this year and I can guarantee the league had words with him about his "nod of approval" to send RG3 back into the game that destroyed his knee.

If RG3 has a fault it lies not in his ability to play as a pocket passer, but in that he isnt being strong enough to go to the caoches/GM and say throw that option crap out of the playbook because I would like to play this game beyond my rookie contract.

Redeyejedi
03-18-2013, 02:12 PM
Unless he turns himself into Aaron Rodgers running the ball he will be a 12 game QB

BigBlue wins
03-18-2013, 02:19 PM
Lol he might not even play this year.

this..OP, you should have brought this up.

I've never heard of a skins fan until RG3 came....damn stupid blowhard fans who root for the next big thing.

But my 2 cents is that if RG3 is able to come back and play, he will need to learn in full a pro style offense and none of the gimmicky plays that helped him transition between college to the NFL.

That also means he will really need to understand when to run and when NOT to run....Russell Wilson did this perfectly I think (you can also argue Kapernick too, but Im talking first time players so he's excluded)

Toadofsteel
03-18-2013, 02:22 PM
As a human being, I kinda feel bad for RG3. He's being run into the ground by selfish *******s like Shanahan and Snyder. I hope he learns how to be a true NFL pocket passer, for his own sake at his job. His health is going to deteriorate faster than Bradshaw's when all is said and done...

As a giants fan, the longer he's out, the better for us as a division rival...

Mlerman17
03-18-2013, 02:25 PM
He is a 1 read qb that gets carried by a dominant run game that opens up throwing lanes when everyone on the d bits on the play action. He has a good arm and is fast but IMO it is all a smokescreen. If he had to run a pro style offense he would be exposed and the skins would win 5 games. Andrew luck is the real deal and at least Wilson runs a more traditional offense with a few read options sprinkled in. Almost every snap rg is in the pistol running a college offense. He is a FAKE.

penguinfarmer
03-18-2013, 02:31 PM
I think the answer is simple. You need a new workplace. One with less Redskins fans.

gmen2117
03-18-2013, 02:52 PM
Keep dreamin' man

Giants5699
03-18-2013, 02:55 PM
He is a 1 read qb that gets carried by a dominant run game that opens up throwing lanes when everyone on the d bits on the play action. He has a good arm and is fast but IMO it is all a smokescreen. If he had to run a pro style offense he would be exposed and the skins would win 5 games. Andrew luck is the real deal and at least Wilson runs a more traditional offense with a few read options sprinkled in. Almost every snap rg is in the pistol running a college offense. He is a FAKE.

Wilson is an absolute monster of a QB. You can't go wrong with either him or Luck. And Wilson is an incredibly intelligent runner. He had a rough first few games in the NFL, but then he took off and showed what he can do. IMO, Wilson will be remembered as the best QB of his draft class.

Toadofsteel
03-18-2013, 03:01 PM
Wilson is an absolute monster of a QB. You can't go wrong with either him or Luck. And Wilson is an incredibly intelligent runner. He had a rough first few games in the NFL, but then he took off and showed what he can do. IMO, Wilson will be remembered as the best QB of his draft class.

I have to agree with him being great value. Don't know how he will pan out compared to Luck, but he definitely had the most relative value considering he went in the 3rd round (i.e. every team had at least 2 shots to pick him up).

What makes me crap my pants is that we couldn't beat Tavaris Jackson and now we have to face this guy next year...

BigBlue wins
03-18-2013, 03:02 PM
Wilson is an absolute monster of a QB. You can't go wrong with either him or Luck. And Wilson is an incredibly intelligent runner. He had a rough first few games in the NFL, but then he took off and showed what he can do. IMO, Wilson will be remembered as the best QB of his draft class.

It's to be determined if you ask me...ask again in 4-5 years. It most definitely comes down between the 3 QB's, but it could just end up being between Luck and Wilson..to be concluded lol

B&RWarrior
03-18-2013, 04:01 PM
RG however is not going to be the same QB he was last season for a long long time, if ever and you can bank on that. That was a horrific injury he suffered. He can say all the positive things he wants but he knows deep down he will be scared and hesitant he will have a career ending event if he hurts it again, therefore he will be tentative. after the college injury ACL and the tweaking it during the few games prior to the playoff. Then getting hurt further in the the playoff game, right their was enough to bench him for the season playoff game or not. But no, stupid skins coaches had to push the envelope and now they may have ruined their future by playing him to long.. He will be know as RG -3 next season. Meaning he will be taking a beating losing yards,behind the line of scrimmage when he takes a knee or falls down to avoid being hit

What are you talking about? He's playing a position less reliant on athletic ability than almokst any other in football. FYI Frank Gore has had at least 2 ACL surgeries. How's he look to you? and that is at RB.

GiantsSB23
03-19-2013, 02:34 PM
I dont think he's going to be as good as he was not only because of the injury but because I think defenses will have him figured out. I heard some Giants staff was visiting a few colleges to get some pointers on how to defend the option. I think as a rookie, he caught a lot of teams off guard but now that we know what he's capable off, i'm sure defenses will adjust to contain him.

miked1958
03-19-2013, 04:50 PM
What are you talking about? He's playing a position less reliant on athletic ability than almokst any other in football. FYI Frank Gore has had at least 2 ACL surgeries. How's he look to you? and that is at RB.not the way he plays the game. He runs it almost as much as a RB. Mark it down, if he comes back and doesn't change his style he will have a very short career.

miked1958
03-19-2013, 04:52 PM
Also did you guys read tht he lost so much Cartilage from the first two Surgeries they had to take some from his good knee. They saying he isn't far from bone on bone. He will be a cripple by 30

kNicksGiants
03-19-2013, 05:51 PM
I have to agree with him being great value. Don't know how he will pan out compared to Luck, but he definitely had the most relative value considering he went in the 3rd round (i.e. every team had at least 2 shots to pick him up).

What makes me crap my pants is that we couldn't beat Tavaris Jackson and now we have to face this guy next year...we were beating tavaris jackson... charlie whitehurst came in and beat us lol