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View Full Version : What about our Defensive Schemes?



paulj
03-19-2013, 02:22 PM
What about our Defensive Schemes? Regardless of who makes the team, i have not been happy with the
defensive schemes PF deploys.

IMO, the Giants frequently don't allow players to exploit their natural ability as have been observed being forced to play to the team scheme.
An example, athough KP left our team via FA, when he was healthy, his role was to play center field, instead of allowing him to play to his strength.

Was it strictly that we had too many injuries? Or were we forced to be conservative with players playing out of position to compensate for other ineffective players?

What really pushed my buttons was when the Giants actually played great on 1st and 2nd down crating 3rd and long situations,
and then too oftern on 3rd and long, they stunk. This may not be exactly accurate but my point of frustration was on 3rd down, if an offense needed ten yards, they got eleven. If a team needed fifteen yards, they got sixteen. It made me shake my head in disgust.

I'm just not happy with the defensive schemes and philosophy of PF. I'm not a hater either! I base my opinion on what i have observed watching the team for the past 40 years!

Am I the only one that is concerned about our defensive schemes employed?

giantsforce
03-19-2013, 02:27 PM
What about our Defensive Schemes? Regardless of who makes the team, i have not been happy with the
defensive schemes PF deploys.

IMO, the Giants frequently don't allow players to exploit their natural ability as have been observed being forced to play to the team scheme.
An example, athough KP left our team via FA, when he was healthy, his role was to play center field, instead of allowing him to play to his strength.

Was it strictly that we had too many injuries? Or were we forced to be conservative with players playing out of position to compensate for other ineffective players?

What really pushed my buttons was when the Giants actually played great on 1st and 2nd down crating 3rd and long situations,
and then too oftern on 3rd and long, they stunk. This may not be exactly accurate but my point of frustration was on 3rd down, if an offense needed ten yards, they got eleven. If a team needed fifteen yards, they got sixteen. It made me shake my head in disgust.

I'm just not happy with the defensive schemes and philosophy of PF. I'm not a hater either! I base my opinion on what i have observed watching the team for the past 40 years!

Am I the only one that is concerned about our defensive schemes employed?One thing you have to keep in mind is that around here it is never the coaches fault. It is always the players not executing. Let's wait how it plays out during the season since the team will have much different look than last year. The only thing that has not changed is the coaching staff. Right now, everything is pure speculation and nothing more since the FA dust has not settled yet.

Buddy333
03-19-2013, 02:31 PM
So when the defense plays well its the players and when they play bad it's the coach?

paulj
03-19-2013, 02:38 PM
So true. I agree!
I'm just so frustrated last year when we had chances to make plays and didn't.

paulj
03-19-2013, 02:40 PM
It's the execution. Too oftern players were out of posiiton and didn't understand their role of responsibilty. That is a statement based upo comments from players last season. Lack of executioin means poor communication between players and coaches. They are all to blame.

BigBlue wins
03-19-2013, 02:44 PM
When players we need to perform like Tuck and Osi are lackluster, you can't rely on JPP to save the day all the time.

Perry Fewell hasn't had a good track record with cornerbacks, so he has had to use that 3 safety net grouping...My guess is that he will need to use an alternative since our safety situation is changing and I dont think we should keep that trend going

I dont like how Fewell seems to come off weak when it comes to rushing the passer, but that could be the players....we as fans dont know who is at fault really hence the back and forth on the blame game...nobody really knows but we do know that both are kinda at fault here

ZEKE80
03-19-2013, 02:45 PM
What about our Defensive Schemes? Regardless of who makes the team, i have not been happy with the
defensive schemes PF deploys.

IMO, the Giants frequently don't allow players to exploit their natural ability as have been observed being forced to play to the team scheme.
An example, athough KP left our team via FA, when he was healthy, his role was to play center field, instead of allowing him to play to his strength.

Was it strictly that we had too many injuries? Or were we forced to be conservative with players playing out of position to compensate for other ineffective players?

What really pushed my buttons was when the Giants actually played great on 1st and 2nd down crating 3rd and long situations,
and then too oftern on 3rd and long, they stunk. This may not be exactly accurate but my point of frustration was on 3rd down, if an offense needed ten yards, they got eleven. If a team needed fifteen yards, they got sixteen. It made me shake my head in disgust.

I'm just not happy with the defensive schemes and philosophy of PF. I'm not a hater either! I base my opinion on what i have observed watching the team for the past 40 years!

Am I the only one that is concerned about our defensive schemes employed?

I can't stand the defense and the DC has no creativity. If the down four is ineffective there is no plan B. I watch time and time again the dependency on the front to carry the defense. there are no DB blitzes, no twist or stunts by the front, no fake blitz then attack by the Lber. its just sad to watch sometimes. With the new wave of offenses in the NFL PF is going to have to change and get creative to survive. We have to get much faster on defense and attack that read option c.rap instead of being reactionary and fallen victim to it.

paulj
03-19-2013, 02:47 PM
Hopeful solutions = draft/FA: DE, DT, LB and CB, besides RT and G

Buddy333
03-19-2013, 02:48 PM
Not saying the coaches should never take any blame, but he players we saw in the post season last year did not play that way for most of 2011 or 2012. So why did they look so good with the same coach and the same scheme the last two games and post season in 2011?

KillaRich
03-19-2013, 02:56 PM
Injuries didn't help... but PF is the biggest reason.... yes tuck and osi were ghosts.... thus the front fur got little pressure .... but few ell was so stubborn to give the line help and insisted on relying on the front 4 .... if e could learn to adjust in game and switch it up when it obviously isn't working we might see the team I'mprove.... but fewell is stubborn and sticks to his one flawed game plan..... shiz the few times he ever did blitz Blackburn even got sacks.... but he just won't do it consistently and sticks to his malfunctioning guns.....

And the fact that he plays everybody back on 3rd&7, 3rd&10 and 3rd&15 is the most ridiculous thing ever .....he invites the other teams to get the needed yardage


Don't know how many times I yell at the TV when I see our corners give 5 yard cushion when the offense only needs like 7 yards.....its idiotic and just stubbornness from fewell and his break and collapse defense

paulj
03-19-2013, 03:06 PM
AMEN! Spot on!
I hope we can acquire additional quality to as many of these psns as possible: LCB, MLB (Connors helps), SLB, DE, DT (Jenkins helps)

Kruunch
03-19-2013, 03:08 PM
What about our Defensive Schemes? Regardless of who makes the team, i have not been happy with the
defensive schemes PF deploys.

IMO, the Giants frequently don't allow players to exploit their natural ability as have been observed being forced to play to the team scheme.
An example, athough KP left our team via FA, when he was healthy, his role was to play center field, instead of allowing him to play to his strength.

Was it strictly that we had too many injuries? Or were we forced to be conservative with players playing out of position to compensate for other ineffective players?

What really pushed my buttons was when the Giants actually played great on 1st and 2nd down crating 3rd and long situations,
and then too oftern on 3rd and long, they stunk. This may not be exactly accurate but my point of frustration was on 3rd down, if an offense needed ten yards, they got eleven. If a team needed fifteen yards, they got sixteen. It made me shake my head in disgust.

I'm just not happy with the defensive schemes and philosophy of PF. I'm not a hater either! I base my opinion on what i have observed watching the team for the past 40 years!

Am I the only one that is concerned about our defensive schemes employed?


If you rush your players in the exact same manner play after play, it becomes easy to block and exploit.

Everything flows from there (both pro and con).

PF needs to learn to stunt and blitz more creatively.

slipknottin
03-19-2013, 03:09 PM
KP was one of the best center fielders in the league.

Make a better argument please.

JesseJames
03-19-2013, 05:12 PM
Perry Fewell told everybody at his first press conference that fans might not be too happy with his defense because it was designed to stop the big play and would give up a lot of yards, right now to me it looks like its doing both..

TrueBlue@NYC
03-19-2013, 05:38 PM
Frankly it doesn't matter what scheme the defense is playing, if the guys you're relying on to be stars are playing poorly then the scheme will fail every time. I agree that Fewell doesn't mix up his scheme up front enough, but alot of that is because he likes to mix up the coverages alot to confuse QBs'. It's one of the reasons why the defense forces alot of turnovers DESPITE the stars of the defense (the DL) not doing their end of the deal.

The defense needs more speed and athleticism on each level.

speedman
03-19-2013, 07:42 PM
Not saying the coaches should never take any blame, but he players we saw in the post season last year did not play that way for most of 2011 or 2012. So why did they look so good with the same coach and the same scheme the last two games and post season in 2011?If it's 3rd and 5 and the corners are lined up 10 yards off the receivers is it the players or the scheme?

RoanokeFan
03-19-2013, 08:40 PM
So when the defense plays well its the players and when they play bad it's the coach?

An amazing truism

slipknottin
03-19-2013, 08:42 PM
If it's 3rd and 5 and the corners are lined up 10 yards off the receivers is it the players or the scheme?

Guarantee the 10 yards off doesn't mean the corners are supposed to allow 6 yard completions.

BlueBlooded1979
03-20-2013, 08:14 PM
Guarantee the 10 yards off doesn't mean the corners are supposed to allow 6 yard completions.

When you are asking 200lb press corners to close 5 yards on a 10 yard cushion you are doing it wrong. They either get there two yards too late or get beat in transition on deeper or crossing routes. Good coaches tweak their system to the players. How a defense runs more off coverage than any team in the league and leads the league in giving up deep plays is beyond me.

Perry Fewell has had more cap space and draft picks applied to the defense than nearly any other team in the NFL since he has been the DC. They have never been a top half defense let alone top 5 that the resources spent would indicate. The pure talent of the pass rush covered up a weak overall unit in 2011. As a DC he has no way to manufacture pressure when the front 4 don't get home quickly.

There is simply far more evidence that the scheme doesn't fit the players as opposed to the problem simply being execution. I am also not a fan of him laughing and joking on the sidelines like a jackass when they are getting their butts whooped. He comes off as soft and that is how is defenses have always played, soft and opportunistic. I will take stingy and physical any day.

Buddy333
03-20-2013, 09:25 PM
Again, the same scheme and same DC where fine last year in the post season. So why did they stink for most of the last two seasons? Can he control the injury situation? Did he tell Tuck and Osi to take the year off? Did he tell Webster to take a major step back this year? Did he want his best Safety to miss a bunch of games? Did he want Rolle to bite on every fake leaving is man wide open?

KillaRich
03-20-2013, 09:50 PM
Again, the same scheme and same DC where fine last year in the post season. So why did they stink for most of the last two seasons? Can he control the injury situation? Did he tell Tuck and Osi to take the year off? Did he tell Webster to take a major step back this year? Did he want his best Safety to miss a bunch of games? Did he want Rolle to bite on every fake leaving is man wide open?


Fact is when its 3rd & 5 and you play prevent and give a 5 yard cushion , that is on fewell..... when the front four isn't getting pressure and you stubbornly stick to that game plan its on the coach....... yes injuries and players take blame also..I'll say 35-40% ... but the rest is on the coach with this team... pf schemets are down right idiotic at times.. stop defending him....just stop.... he is a major set back for the defense... not even an argument

slipknottin
03-20-2013, 10:16 PM
3rd and 5 giving a five yard cushion doesn't mean you give 5 yards. Is this really that hard to understand?

Corners are supposed to have their eyes in the backfield for the first couple steps a WR takes. If the ball comes out the CBs come down and make the tackle. If they do it correctly, it's a couple yard gain. That's it.

The idea that playing 5 yards off means the corner can't break on a WR is completely moronic.

Buddy333
03-20-2013, 10:19 PM
3rd and 5 giving a five yard cushion doesn't mean you give 5 yards. Is this really that hard to understand? Corners are supposed to have their eyes in the backfield for the first couple steps a WR takes. If the ball comes out the CBs come down and make the tackle. If they do it correctly, it's a couple yard gain. That's it. The idea that playing 5 yards off means the corner can't break on a WR is completely moronic.Agreed.

Buddy333
03-20-2013, 10:22 PM
Fact is when its 3rd & 5 and you play prevent and give a 5 yard cushion , that is on fewell..... when the front four isn't getting pressure and you stubbornly stick to that game plan its on the coach....... yes injuries and players take blame also..I'll say 35-40% ... but the rest is on the coach with this team... pf schemets are down right idiotic at times.. stop defending him....just stop.... he is a major set back for the defense... not even an argumentSo when a team that is built to rush the passer has two of what they thought where their premier pass rushers struggling all year, their #1 CB struggling, their best Safety hurting, and their other Safety giving up huge plays every game it's the coaches fault he can't coach around that?

talbot
03-20-2013, 10:27 PM
Nobody was complaining about the scheme in 2010 when everyone was healthy and the pass rush was on.

sethm
03-20-2013, 10:41 PM
Lord knows as a fan these boards are for expressing frustration. Without a doubt I have screamed about a lot of what you are going on about. But try to remember just over a year ago the DC showed some serious ability by getting his guys up for that run just ask those 5 teams how good or bad his schemes were and how good the players understood their responsibilities.

Cowboys week 17 Defense allows14 pts
Atlanta wildcard game defense gives up 2
oh wait that wasn't defensive pts allowed
NFC Divisional Greenbay scored just 10 in 4 q+
NFC Championship San Fran scores just 17
Super Bowl Patriots 17

They stepped up, could be just getting hot like Baltimore did this year but I think it was more. Just call me a fan

cornerback30
03-21-2013, 12:10 AM
It has to change due to the fact we will be facing the read option and all,Reese needs to draft for speed on defense and tweek the defense to better defend such attacks.We need fast LBs who can play run and pass,Mara himself said he wants both lines to become faster and more dominant again.Williams is pretty fast for a LB hope we can draft someone like him to help on defense