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View Full Version : Linebacker: Red Headed Step Child



Kruunch
03-20-2013, 11:18 AM
Warning: I've played linebacker so this rant will be totally biased.

Our starting LBers as of right now are looking like Keith Rivers (SAM), Dan Connor (MIKE) and JWill (WILL).

All three have injury histories and have yet to prove they can actually endure an entire season of play. To add to that, the guy calling the defense (Connor supposedly) has yet to prove he can be a starting player in the NFL.

After those we have, Kiwi (depending DE rotation), Paysinger, Herzlich and Muasau. Kiwi (assuming he doesn't move to DE permanently) hasn't proven he can be anything more than a journeyman SAM (and he was flat bad last year in that spot), Paysinger is good depth at WILL (the only real optimism I have in our LB corps currently), Herzlich has yet to prove he can regain his playing form from BC and I've yet to see Muasau do anything.

Our linebacker play has already been admitted by coaching, front office and ownership to have been really poor last year. And, on paper at least, it looks worse this year.

While you can make the argument that the LBer spot might have the least emphasis in a 4-3 defense in todays NFL, I will make the statement here that our defense will be inconsistent at best until our LBing corps has been noticeably upgraded.

I weep for the future!

GameTime
03-20-2013, 11:26 AM
Chase will be back.....to save the day....:cool:

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 11:27 AM
Chase will be back.....to save the day....:cool:

I'm a Chase fan, but when you're hoping to re-sign Rudy, I think my point is made.

BigBlue wins
03-20-2013, 11:29 AM
Let's see what training camp brings..I know that is a lame answer, but it will be great to know who is actually starting and where.

GameTime
03-20-2013, 11:30 AM
I'm a Chase fan, but when you're hoping to re-sign Rudy, I think my point is made.
exactly.......but I would rather have Rudy as the glue if no one else can mange the MLB pos

Toadofsteel
03-20-2013, 11:31 AM
I don't like the fact that JR seems willing to compromise with injury history... I'd rather have someone who may not be as athletic like CB, but is at least on the field for at least 14 out of 16 games a season...

GameTime
03-20-2013, 11:32 AM
I don't like the fact that JR seems willing to compromise with injury history... I'd rather have someone who may not be as athletic like CB, but is at least on the field for at least 14 out of 16 games a season...
JR himself probabaly cant believe he keeps cutting the best MLB he has on the team.

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 11:37 AM
exactly.......but I would rather have Rudy as the glue if no one else can mange the MLB pos

MLB pos indeed.

pacco_diablo
03-20-2013, 11:37 AM
Could not agree more. I've looked daily to see if we've addressed this issue any further than we have. We could use some help on the OL and possibly even another CB, but I'm really hoping we can draft LB first round of the draft. To me it's our biggest question mark.

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 11:38 AM
Let's see what training camp brings..I know that is a lame answer, but it will be great to know who is actually starting and where.

That, the Draft and post-Draft FA signings. Plenty of time to bolster this bunch ... hopefully.

BigBlue wins
03-20-2013, 11:46 AM
That, the Draft and post-Draft FA signings. Plenty of time to bolster this bunch ... hopefully.

+1 I will be upset once the regular season starts if we dont seem to address it

JB456
03-20-2013, 11:59 AM
I'm a Chase fan, but when you're hoping to re-sign Rudy, I think my point is made.

I m a big fan of Chase because he puts a 100% into every play but you are right, he is Rudy. I just don't understand how they could continue to neglect this key position after last year. How the hell are the Giants going to shore up their run D without addressing this key position in FA? Even if they draft a MLB high, the Giants are not a team that traditionally throws rookies in the deep end...

JesseJames
03-20-2013, 12:00 PM
the team is going to have to make a commitment to the LBer position in order for it to get any better than mediocre and so far they have been reluctant to do that in a meaningful way. Upgrading through FA means paying big money to guys who have proven what they can do, the Giants really can't do that and have shown they really don't want to, so the draft is left and they don't draft a LBer high enough to insure any kind of success, maybe they were just burned too bad by the Clint Sintim pick....

TAILGATIN'
03-20-2013, 12:04 PM
I think Ogletree would adjust just fine to the Mike. Brown would be a good draft option as well. I really love Greene, but view him more as a OLB, but maybe he can make the change.

TheAnalyst
03-20-2013, 12:06 PM
We dont need no stinkin LBs or TEs.

pacco_diablo
03-20-2013, 12:08 PM
I m a big fan of Chase because he puts a 100% into every play but you are right, he is Rudy. I just don't understand how they could continue to neglect this key position after last year. How the hell are the Giants going to shore up their run D without addressing this key position in FA? Even if they draft a MLB high, the Giants are not a team that traditionally throws rookies in the deep end...

Exactly! and this is not a position that can be learned quickly. Though it does happen sooner occasionally, successful LB'ers usually take a good 2-3 years to develop, especially in the middle. One could probably argue the same of CB's as well. I'm still of the opinion that the MLB can have the greatest impact on the defensive side of the ball. It's definitely not a position where you want your average player to be. I'd be happy with another Antonio Pierce type plyaer.

RoanokeFan
03-20-2013, 12:09 PM
Warning: I've played linebacker so this rant will be totally biased. Our starting LBers as of right now are looking like Keith Rivers (SAM), Dan Connor (MIKE) and JWill (WILL). All three have injury histories and have yet to prove they can actually endure an entire season of play. To add to that, the guy calling the defense (Connor supposedly) has yet to prove he can be a starting player in the NFL. After those we have, Kiwi (depending DE rotation), Paysinger, Herzlich and Muasau. Kiwi (assuming he doesn't move to DE permanently) hasn't proven he can be anything more than a journeyman SAM (and he was flat bad last year in that spot), Paysinger is good depth at WILL (the only real optimism I have in our LB corps currently), Herzlich has yet to prove he can regain his playing form from BC and I've yet to see Muasau do anything. Our linebacker play has already been admitted by coaching, front office and ownership to have been really poor last year. And, on paper at least, it looks worse this year. While you can make the argument that the LBer spot might have the least emphasis in a 4-3 defense in todays NFL, I will make the statement here that our defense will be inconsistent at best until our LBing corps has been noticeably upgraded. I weep for the future! It's March

CowboysSuck
03-20-2013, 12:11 PM
I don't like the fact that JR seems willing to compromise with injury history... I'd rather have someone who may not be as athletic like CB, but is at least on the field for at least 14 out of 16 games a season...

I think London Fletcher is a FA... he hasnt missed a single game in his entire career....at LB!

Rudyy
03-20-2013, 12:12 PM
What's all this hoopla about Chase being me???

CowboysSuck
03-20-2013, 12:12 PM
to the OP:

We still have a very important draft ahead of us. The two priorities will likely be OL/LB ...or just defense in general.

I have faith in our FO to finally draft an impact LB :crosses fingers:

CowboysSuck
03-20-2013, 12:13 PM
What's all this hoopla about Chase being me???

I think they were referring to the football movie Rudy. However, since ive never seen the movie i could be completely wrong.

Rudyy
03-20-2013, 12:14 PM
I think they were referring to the football movie Rudy. However, since ive never seen the movie i could be completely wrong.It was sarcasm, hence the red.

And you're right.

Die-Hard
03-20-2013, 12:20 PM
The Giants have been ignoring the LB position for over 20 years. Expecting it to change anytime soon will drive one to drink.

That being said, something tells me that, with all of this gimmick offense crap making the rounds lately, the Giants will give the LB position a much more serious look this year. They almost have to, since that nonsense is all predicated on speed, and this defense is hardly what I'd consider to be fast, or even competent.

Carter.525
03-20-2013, 12:25 PM
need to add OIgetree, Brown, Greene or Minter.. the LB unit needs a major upgrade..

GameTime
03-20-2013, 12:28 PM
What's all this hoopla about Chase being me???
no..Rudy with 1 "y"....

Rudyy
03-20-2013, 12:35 PM
no..Rudy with 1 "y"....You are so right! How silly of me.

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 12:36 PM
It's March

It's March, 2013 ... to be exact.

This post has been three years in the making.

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 12:37 PM
need to add OIgetree, Brown, Greene or Minter.. the LB unit needs a major upgrade..

At this point we need all four.

RoanokeFan
03-20-2013, 12:56 PM
It's March, 2013 ... to be exact. This post has been three years in the making. Not a touch typist?

G-Men Surg.
03-20-2013, 01:01 PM
Warning: I've played linebacker so this rant will be totally biased.

Our starting LBers as of right now are looking like Keith Rivers (SAM), Dan Connor (MIKE) and JWill (WILL).

All three have injury histories and have yet to prove they can actually endure an entire season of play. To add to that, the guy calling the defense (Connor supposedly) has yet to prove he can be a starting player in the NFL.

After those we have, Kiwi (depending DE rotation), Paysinger, Herzlich and Muasau. Kiwi (assuming he doesn't move to DE permanently) hasn't proven he can be anything more than a journeyman SAM (and he was flat bad last year in that spot), Paysinger is good depth at WILL (the only real optimism I have in our LB corps currently), Herzlich has yet to prove he can regain his playing form from BC and I've yet to see Muasau do anything.

Our linebacker play has already been admitted by coaching, front office and ownership to have been really poor last year. And, on paper at least, it looks worse this year.

While you can make the argument that the LBer spot might have the least emphasis in a 4-3 defense in todays NFL, I will make the statement here that our defense will be inconsistent at best until our LBing corps has been noticeably upgraded.

I weep for the future!

The bar has been set so high when you think N Y Giants LBs . Its going to be near impossible to see another set of starters and depth we saw back in the '80. That been said in recent years our core of LB's are just a crying shame.

Carter.525
03-20-2013, 01:04 PM
At this point we need all four.

agreed

TroyArcher
03-20-2013, 01:31 PM
LB is an area that the Giants have not made a priority in recent years and it shows. Focus has been on pass rushing D-lineman and offense. Can't argue withoverall success but it does leave the Giants with an avarage at best LB crew. I think Kiwi will still play LB but I'd rather see him in the D-line rotation. I would say the last real impact LB we had was Mitchell in 2007 and that is pushing it. I sure miss the days of Van Pelt, Kelly, Carson, Reasons, LT, Banks, Pepper, Messy Jesse...

yo-ho
03-20-2013, 01:34 PM
Yes, we used to be a linebacker factory

TAILGATIN'
03-20-2013, 01:42 PM
We dont need no stinkin LBs or TEs.
LBs? Uhh... gentleman, which brings me to my next point, dont smoke crack.

Mercury
03-20-2013, 01:55 PM
Not one of the guys we've drafted at LB has worked out for us as a solution. Wilkenson, Sintim, Goff, Dillard, etc. have all been subpar and/or injured. At least the FAs have been able to help out some. And when the Dline didn't play well last year, the subpar LBers looked even worse.

Are any of our troubles coaching related? Do you think we need an upgrade at LB coach?

GoodbyeWilson
03-20-2013, 03:16 PM
I agree our LBs need an upgrade. The DL is more important but they cant do it alone.. I think our DL is good enough that we can afford to use a 1st or 2nd rounder on an LB.. We havent had a beast LB for as long as i can remember and with a great DL those LBs production should be even better

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 03:19 PM
Not a touch typist?


Shush grandpa :p

Kruunch
03-20-2013, 03:21 PM
The bar has been set so high when you think N Y Giants LBs . Its going to be near impossible to see another set of starters and depth we saw back in the '80. That been said in recent years our core of LB's are just a crying shame.

That's the thing ... I'm not expecting LT, Carson and Banks to all return but ONE of those, maybe?

I'd give my left nut to have Harry Carson back on the team. And I'm talking about the current, 59 year old Harry Carson.

RoanokeFan
03-20-2013, 03:49 PM
Shush grandpa :p

lol

Toadofsteel
03-20-2013, 03:50 PM
I can't wait for the day we actually do decide to go to a 3-4 and everyone on here start's complaining that we're ignoring the DL...

/red

Shockeystays08
03-20-2013, 04:15 PM
Well if we get a first for Cruz ( unlikely but possible) maybe we'll reel in both Ogletree and Arthur Brown. You may regret losing the salsa but you might feel better about our LB unit.