PDA

View Full Version : good news getting better



tcseacliff
03-21-2013, 06:38 PM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/314827881828200448 good!

RoanokeFan
03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
That's been pretty clear. The next thing we should hear about Cruz is the details of his long term deal :rolleyes:

dnotch121
03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
if i loved this team before i love even more now...today i read an article that C Snee is willing to restructure to help the team keep Boothe and Eli willing to do the same for Cruz. Couldnt be more proud of these guys

talbot
03-21-2013, 06:48 PM
if i loved this team before i love even more now...today i read an article that C Snee is willing to restructure to help the team keep Boothe and Eli willing to do the same for Cruz. Couldnt be more proud of these guys

Now only if David ****ing Diehl would do the same thing.

appodictic
03-21-2013, 06:50 PM
Lol cruz is already doing commercials why does he need Eli and everone elses $ hes just greedy. Him probably gets more from his chunky soup commercials then some guys on the team.

tcseacliff
03-21-2013, 06:50 PM
Claass organization! to be a Giant fan!! ;)

darrin99
03-21-2013, 06:51 PM
Now only if David ****ing Diehl would do the same thing.

I'm actually hoping he refuses, and the Giants just release him. I really don't want to see him out there anymore.

RoanokeFan
03-21-2013, 06:53 PM
Now only if David ****ing Diehl would do the same thing.

Diehl is taking his time but I don't see that as a particularly smart move. He has no leverage and, while we'll likely have some dead money, he's going to provide CAP relief one way or another

RoanokeFan
03-21-2013, 06:54 PM
Lol cruz is already doing commercials why does he need Eli and everone elses $ hes just greedy. Him probably gets more from his chunky soup commercials then some guys on the team.

Please explain how he's being "greedy"??

nhpgiantsfan
03-21-2013, 06:57 PM
if i loved this team before i love even more now...today i read an article that C Snee is willing to restructure to help the team keep Boothe and Eli willing to do the same for Cruz. Couldnt be more proud of these guys

Restructuring just gets the the cash up front in signing bonus. It's just creating more cap problems in the future. Don't act like they are doing the Giants any great favors.

pino
03-21-2013, 07:03 PM
Schefter has been saying this from day one. Only select few on this MB are in a panic about Cruz. He's going to be a Giant this year. The only way we lose this guy - besides a team giving up ALOT - is that we don't extend his contract this year and we lose him in FA next year.

RoanokeFan
03-21-2013, 07:06 PM
Schefter has been saying this from day one. Only select few on this MB are in a panic about Cruz. He's going to be a Giant this year. The only way we lose this guy - besides a team giving up ALOT - is that we don't extend his contract this year and we lose him in FA next year.

They are woking on a long term deal right now. They have the tender to fall back on if necessary. I feel much better with Tom Condon representing Cruz.

slipknottin
03-21-2013, 07:08 PM
The Dolphins thought Wallace is worth 15 mil a year, but didnt give up a first for him....

RoanokeFan
03-21-2013, 07:10 PM
The Dolphins thought Wallace is worth 15 mil a year, but didnt give up a first for him....

I think if he was going to get offer sheets it would have already happened.

Sebat4
03-21-2013, 07:23 PM
I think it will happen right now, maybe sometimes after the draft. By the way, what happened to that Colts big signing that everyone said its going to be Cruz ?

slipknottin
03-21-2013, 07:23 PM
Well if any team wants Cruz, all they have to do is wait a year, and get him in FA, and not have to give up anything to get him.

slipknottin
03-21-2013, 07:24 PM
I think it will happen right now, maybe sometimes after the draft. By the way, what happened to that Colts big signing that everyone said its going to be Cruz ?

Everyone but the colts. They said specifically it wasent Cruz.

And they cant be parting with first round picks with that bad a defense and no 2nd rounder

Alive741
03-21-2013, 07:34 PM
Just have to wait and see what happens...

RoanokeFan
03-21-2013, 07:57 PM
Well if any team wants Cruz, all they have to do is wait a year, and get him in FA, and not have to give up anything to get him.

He'll more than likely be working under a long term deal by then :)

Rat_bastich
03-21-2013, 11:21 PM
I think it will happen right now, maybe sometimes after the draft. By the way, what happened to that Colts big signing that everyone said its going to be Cruz ?

Yep, Irsay said it definitely wasn't Cruz. He was so adamant about it that it definitely didn't seem double talk.

gfd_2
03-21-2013, 11:23 PM
come on now... Diehl has announced that he'll restructure to keep Cruz... http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/03/giants_david_diehl_says_he_wou.html#incart_river

TCHOF
03-21-2013, 11:31 PM
Lol cruz is already doing commercials why does he need Eli and everone elses $ hes just greedy. Him probably gets more from his chunky soup commercials then some guys on the team.

I find this mentality so irritating. Why shouldn't the guy be able to make as much as he can without being called greedy?

appodictic
03-21-2013, 11:39 PM
Please explain how he's being "greedy"??

He is just fake. I wish I could find the article in sports illustrated but they interviewed him this off season, and we all "big blue pride" "we will be tough to beat" "giants pride" funny from a guy in an extended hold out situation. Squeezing Nicks out of money because, he got injured last season. He's about to pull a Steve Smith, bank on it. They are going to make him a solid offer and he's going to walk. If he wanted to play for the giants the deal would be done.

appodictic
03-21-2013, 11:40 PM
I find this mentality so irritating. Why shouldn't the guy be able to make as much as he can without being called greedy?
You will be agreeing with me when we offer him 8million a year and he still leaves us for San Fran.

miked1958
03-21-2013, 11:47 PM
Well lets just hope if Eli or snee redo their deals that they add years on at a lower cost (like Brady) to spread everything out and not cripple us in the future. We don't want to go down that road again.. If it give us CAP Space this ur and next and doesn't cripple us in the future then I'm all for it. However if it handcuffs us for future years I'd say NO. We'd have to roll the dice and hope for the best in that situation

GiantRoc
03-22-2013, 12:27 AM
You will be agreeing with me when we offer him 8million a year and he still leaves us for San Fran.

I don't think it is greed to get the best wage you can. A fair comparison of production shows Cruz deserving of a raise. Greed is when he takes something that costs someone else his job. He won't be doing that. Guys may have to go elsewhere to work , but they will work. Or maybe Cruz goes elsewhere for more money. That's not greed. That's getting a better job offer. I would think in you would move to a job for an extra million or so, if you had the option.

appodictic
03-22-2013, 01:50 AM
I don't think it is greed to get the best wage you can. A fair comparison of production shows Cruz deserving of a raise. Greed is when he takes something that costs someone else his job. He won't be doing that. Guys may have to go elsewhere to work , but they will work. Or maybe Cruz goes elsewhere for more money. That's not greed. That's getting a better job offer. I would think in you would move to a job for an extra million or so, if you had the option.

If he really cared about the team he would get a deal done, so we could focus on other possible free agents and the draft. But at this point you have multiple people saying they will take a pay cut to sign him and he is STILL not signed. Boley left that was what 4 million, bradshaw was 3, canty was 8. ???, now Eli is saying he will take a cut, and still no deal? Come on man. We could have made a move on Welker or whatever, i bet welker has a better season then cruz this year anyway.

shockeyisjesus
03-22-2013, 04:07 AM
If he really cared about the team he would get a deal done, so we could focus on other possible free agents and the draft. But at this point you have multiple people saying they will take a pay cut to sign him and he is STILL not signed. Boley left that was what 4 million, bradshaw was 3, canty was 8. ???, now Eli is saying he will take a cut, and still no deal? Come on man. We could have made a move on Welker or whatever, i bet welker has a better season then cruz this year anyway.

I can't possibly adequately state in words how stupid this opinion is. You clearly have no real understanding of how football, or life in general works. We live in a capitalist society and Cruz plays a dangerous game where you aren't guaranteed to earn a dime past the age of 30, even if you are above average.

I have zero problem with him getting whatever he can while he can and if you do it shows your lack of understanding of the game.

TCHOF
03-22-2013, 07:13 AM
You will be agreeing with me when we offer him 8million a year and he still leaves us for San Fran.

Guess again

StrahanSoup92
03-22-2013, 07:29 AM
That's been pretty clear. The next thing we should hear about Cruz is the details of his long term deal :rolleyes:

Yeh its coming...soon. :)

StrahanSoup92
03-22-2013, 07:30 AM
You will be agreeing with me when we offer him 8million a year and he still leaves us for San Fran.

Sorry man but this will NEVER happen.

StrahanSoup92
03-22-2013, 07:33 AM
I find this mentality so irritating. Why shouldn't the guy be able to make as much as he can without being called greedy?

What I dont get is how can anyone say hes "holding out" or being greedy, when they have no idea what the original offer was in the first place. If its around 6m a year, and Im guessing its less, how can anyone blaim Cruz for negotiating.

All this talk is just silly anyway, a deal is going to be made...soon. :)

Rat_bastich
03-22-2013, 07:45 AM
Glad to see this finally happening and I would be willing to take a $1.00 per week pay cut to get the guy signed myself!

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 07:47 AM
I think it will happen right now, maybe sometimes after the draft. By the way, what happened to that Colts big signing that everyone said its going to be Cruz ?

It can't happen after the draft, it has to be by April 19th

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 07:51 AM
He is just fake. I wish I could find the article in sports illustrated but they interviewed him this off season, and we all "big blue pride" "we will be tough to beat" "giants pride" funny from a guy in an extended hold out situation. Squeezing Nicks out of money because, he got injured last season. He's about to pull a Steve Smith, bank on it. They are going to make him a solid offer and he's going to walk. If he wanted to play for the giants the deal would be done.

Why shouldn't he negotiate the best deal he can? How many more chances will he have? He can't "walk" until UFA next year unless some team coughs up a 1st round pick and it's very unlikely to happen. You need to follow more recent news.

slipknottin
03-22-2013, 08:00 AM
How the hell is Cruz holding out when it's the offseason? Lol

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 08:59 AM
How the hell is Cruz holding out when it's the offseason? Lol

Wait till you get to the guy who wants to trade the imgrate Cruz

FBomb
03-22-2013, 09:41 AM
Lol cruz is already doing commercials why does he need Eli and everone elses $ hes just greedy. Him probably gets more from his chunky soup commercials then some guys on the team.


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_yxWd6mB2DkpFRgeIHo7rvZXKzvGQp qvESqLFa6WcCvjUGhJqzw

FBomb
03-22-2013, 09:44 AM
Good lord!!! I should have read farther down.....your posts get WORSE than the first one.

First of all.....Cruz isn't "holding out" by any form of the definition. Secondly, Cruz is entitiled to get whatever he can and STILL be a "true blue Giant"....he isn't out crying to the media about being "slighted" or "lied to" like some OTHER player who still hasn't signed with anyone else.

Pleae...go soak your head.

ryan12
03-22-2013, 10:38 AM
I'm actually hoping he refuses, and the Giants just release him. I really don't want to see him out there anymore.

preaching to the choir

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 12:08 PM
preaching to the choir

You guys want Cruz "released"?

BigBlue1971
03-22-2013, 12:45 PM
I just hope the Giants can get a deal before even training camp and I think they will!

i mean look at the hype about Cruz right now! if a deals not done before camp just think what the hype will be then!

lets get this guy locked up!

slipknottin
03-22-2013, 12:50 PM
I just hope the Giants can get a deal before even training camp and I think they will!

i mean look at the hype about Cruz right now! if a deals not done before camp just think what the hype will be then!

lets get this guy locked up!what hype?

Cruz will probably play this season under his tender offer. Then be a free agent next season

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 01:02 PM
what hype?

Cruz will probably play this season under his tender offer. Then be a free agent next season

I'm thinking Condon and Reese will get the deal done before the season starts.

BigBlue1971
03-22-2013, 01:16 PM
what hype?

Cruz will probably play this season under his tender offer. Then be a free agent next season

these boards along with several media outlets are hyping the situation....i mean tweets this tweets that!

but why let the guy walk? sign 'em now to a long term deal, whats the problem? lol

if Reese doesn't sign Cruz before he becomes a fa hes gone imo!

and get nothing in return!

besides we don't need the distractions with this before and during the season!

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 01:17 PM
these boards along with several media outlets are hyping the situation....i mean tweets this tweets that!

but why let the guy walk? sign 'em now to a long term, whats the problem? lol

if Reese doesn't sign Cruz before he becomes a fa hes gone imo!

and get nothing in return!

besides we don't need the distractions with this before and during the season!


Honest question: Who is the Cruz negotiation distracting from what?

Rat_bastich
03-22-2013, 01:24 PM
Honest question: Who is the Cruz negotiation distracting from what?

Not only that but if we weren't on pins and needles waiting for a Cruz deal...what else would we be talking about? We've already covered the free agents that have come in.

BigBlue1971
03-22-2013, 01:25 PM
Honest question: Who is the Cruz negotiation distracting from what?

im just sayin the longer it goes the topic magnifies!

maybe it wont turn into an "Osi" type circus but....i mean i just want a season where they can all concentrate on football and Cruz is signed!

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 01:28 PM
Not only that but if we weren't on pins and needles waiting for a Cruz deal...what else would we be talking about? We've already covered the free agents that have come in.

These things take time. Now we have a new agent representing Cruz who has to read through the Giants' offer and come up with a counter offer. He, Condon, has also just been hired by Dumerville after that time limit farse with his old agent. Cruz is going to play here in 2013 one way or another. He is entitled to negotiate the best contract he can and that's what they are going to do.

I am convinced Cruz will be signed long term by the Giants long before he hits UFA status. In fact, I'd be surprised if he weren't signed before training camp.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 01:31 PM
im just sayin the longer it goes the topic magnifies!

maybe it wont turn into an "Osi" type circus but....i mean i just want a season where they can all concentrate on football and Cruz is signed!

We all want it done, no question. But not being done at this point in time is really meaningless, especially given that Cruz now has a new agent who, fortunately, works well with Jerry Reese and is replacing what was really an unbending and unwavering former agent. Condon will know when he has gotten everything he can form Reese and then we will all, or most of anyway, be happy campers.

JB456
03-22-2013, 01:48 PM
what hype?

Cruz will probably play this season under his tender offer. Then be a free agent next season

This would be a bad and risky move. What is a first round tender worth, 2.6 Million? The value for slot receivers is set for what, between 6-8 million at most? So, if the Giants offered him a contract worth between 6-7 million (Speculation), Cruz would be losing out on about 4 million this year, a signing bonus right now and go into the season without any issurance policy against the possibility of getting injured and getting 2.6 million.

So, is it worth the risk to make a potential 2-7 million (on a five year contract) with the possibility of getting injured and making much less? I think not.

slipknottin
03-22-2013, 01:53 PM
This would be a bad and risky move. What is a first round tender worth, 2.6 Million? The value for slot receivers is set for what, between 6-8 million at most? So, if the Giants offered him a contract worth between 6-7 million (Speculation), Cruz would be losing out on about 4 million this year, a signing bonus right now and go into the season without any issurance policy against the possibility of getting injured and getting 2.6 million.

So, is it worth the risk to make a potential 2-7 million (on a five year contract) with the possibility of getting injured and making much less? I think not.

Depends what his agent is telling him and what Cruz thinks he's worth. If he is just comparing numbers then maybe he expects to get at least what Wallace got. So why would he settle for half that

JB456
03-22-2013, 02:22 PM
Depends what his agent is telling him and what Cruz thinks he's worth. If he is just comparing numbers then maybe he expects to get at least what Wallace got. So why would he settle for half that

I really hope he doesn't think he will get more than 9 million a year (Probably 0 chance of this happening), hell Wes Welker got 6 million a year and he is widely considered the best slot receiver in the game. So, say the Giants gave him a lowball offer of 6 million, the difference over a 5 year deal is only 15 million and when you deduct 4 million from that (playing for the tender vs signing new Giants contract), the worst case scenario is a loss of 11 million less whatever salary he would be slated to get in the sixth year:

Here is a breakout:

Sign with Giants: 5 year 30 million dollar contract (note this is pretty low end estimate and the Giants probably offered more). After 5 years, 30 Million in the bank.

Sign tender and don't sign with Giants: 2.6 million + 5 year 45 million dollar contract. After 6 years, 47.5 million in the bank. This contract would be worth more over six years but there are several variables that need to be considered:

1) He gets injured this year and only collects 2.6 million and wants to salsa dance into a shark tank.
2) He plays scared this year and his value drops because he has even more drops than usual and doesn't want to risk injury. He might only get a slightly better contract than the Giants offered him and risked a lot to get that.
3) If he has a long career, he would be up for a new contract and signing bonus quicker if he signs the Giants deal.

BigBlue1971
03-22-2013, 02:23 PM
We all want it done, no question. But not being done at this point in time is really meaningless, especially given that Cruz now has a new agent who, fortunately, works well with Jerry Reese and is replacing what was really an unbending and unwavering former agent. Condon will know when he has gotten everything he can form Reese and then we will all, or most of anyway, be happy campers.

Tom Condon is a well respected agent in sports and I expect Cruz values his opinion a little more as well!

hopefully all of 'em can work this out sooner than later.

speed3freak
03-22-2013, 02:31 PM
If he really cared about the team he would get a deal done, so we could focus on other possible free agents and the draft. But at this point you have multiple people saying they will take a pay cut to sign him and he is STILL not signed. Boley left that was what 4 million, bradshaw was 3, canty was 8. ???, now Eli is saying he will take a cut, and still no deal? Come on man. We could have made a move on Welker or whatever, i bet welker has a better season then cruz this year anyway.

Canty and Bradshaw were post June 1st cuts..... you need to understand what you are talking about before you open your mouth champ.

GeoGoGo
03-22-2013, 02:38 PM
He is just fake. I wish I could find the article in sports illustrated but they interviewed him this off season, and we all "big blue pride" "we will be tough to beat" "giants pride" funny from a guy in an extended hold out situation. Squeezing Nicks out of money because, he got injured last season. He's about to pull a Steve Smith, bank on it. They are going to make him a solid offer and he's going to walk. If he wanted to play for the giants the deal would be done.

This is dumb. We will revist this when he resigns.

GeoGoGo
03-22-2013, 02:39 PM
If he really cared about the team he would get a deal done, so we could focus on other possible free agents and the draft. But at this point you have multiple people saying they will take a pay cut to sign him and he is STILL not signed. Boley left that was what 4 million, bradshaw was 3, canty was 8. ???, now Eli is saying he will take a cut, and still no deal? Come on man. We could have made a move on Welker or whatever, i bet welker has a better season then cruz this year anyway.

This is dumber.

BuffyBlueII
03-22-2013, 02:40 PM
I'm actually hoping he refuses, and the Giants just release him. I really don't want to see him out there anymore.+Double D is useless. He can't even drink and drive properly.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 02:40 PM
Depends what his agent is telling him and what Cruz thinks he's worth. If he is just comparing numbers then maybe he expects to get at least what Wallace got. So why would he settle for half that

I would be very surprised if Tom Condon were only looking at the "numbers" although that will certainly be part of the process. Steve Tisch has alredy said it will be more than Welker got and I think that's an appropriate place to start. A good agent will not only negotiate the best deal but will give his client his best advice. That would include regular reality checks on Victor's actual worth right now.

Signing the tender, while a possibility, may not be the best avenue for Cruz to take. First, none of it is guaranteed. Second, as someone else pointed out, if, as I suspect, he will get a deal between $7 - 8 M over 5 or 6 years with close to half guaranteed, Cruz would lose between $3-4M in 2013. What does Cruz have if he plays under the tender and has a career ending injury in 2013, God forbid.

It's early in the process, Cruz is entitled to seek the best offer he can get the Giants to agree with. The Giants are entitled to not overpay Cruz based on whatever criteria they use to determine his value to the team. Somewhere in between the demand and the offer lies the answer. Except for the amount of money involved and the tender, this is no different than any employer/employee contract negotiation.

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 02:41 PM
what hype?

Cruz will probably play this season under his tender offer. Then be a free agent next season

Cruz would take a risk with that approach. If he gets hurt he loses big time.

BuffyBlueII
03-22-2013, 02:42 PM
This would be a bad and risky move. What is a first round tender worth, 2.6 Million? The value for slot receivers is set for what, between 6-8 million at most? So, if the Giants offered him a contract worth between 6-7 million (Speculation), Cruz would be losing out on about 4 million this year, a signing bonus right now and go into the season without any issurance policy against the possibility of getting injured and getting 2.6 million.So, is it worth the risk to make a potential 2-7 million (on a five year contract) with the possibility of getting injured and making much less? I think not.I bet Steve Smith would agree with you.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 02:42 PM
Tom Condon is a well respected agent in sports and I expect Cruz values his opinion a little more as well!

hopefully all of 'em can work this out sooner than later.

Don't forget the all important reason for changing agents. According to published reports, Victor wanted someone who could work WITH the Giants. That's not what a player does if he wants to stand his ground.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 02:43 PM
I bet Steve Smith would agree with you.

Steve Smith is really not a good comparison.

Rush4Blitz2
03-22-2013, 02:51 PM
+Double D is useless. He can't even drink and drive properly.LMAOOO

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 03:49 PM
Steve Smith is really not a good comparison.

Why not? Didn't he turn down big money to play for free agency only to get injured?

JB456
03-22-2013, 04:26 PM
Why not? Didn't he turn down big money to play for free agency only to get injured?

I agree. When I heard it I actually thought it was a good comparison.

The only different variable that I could see change the equation is that Cruz is seen as a better receiver and a big play threat.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 05:00 PM
Why not? Didn't he turn down big money to play for free agency only to get injured?


Cruz is a RFA and can't just sign with another team. Smith's' offer was an extension, Cruz's contract has expired.

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 05:24 PM
Cruz is a RFA and can't just sign with another team. Smith's' offer was an extension, Cruz's contract has expired.

I agree Cruz can't just sign with another team, neither could Steve Smith at the time.

He has the option of signing a 5 year deal worth about $35M which is exactly what Steve Smith turned down. If he turns it down and gets injured this year playing for the Giants, he is Steve Smith 2.0

JB456
03-22-2013, 05:39 PM
Cruz is a RFA and can't just sign with another team. Smith's' offer was an extension, Cruz's contract has expired.

I still think its a good comparison.

1) The Giants offered Smith a 5 year 35 million dollar contract in 2010, while he was a Giant. He refused and wanted to see what he could get in free agency. At the time of the offer, it was during the season and he was under contract with the Giants and couldn't talk to other teams.
2) The Giants probably offered Cruz a similar contract in 2013. He is currently still a Giant and most likely will be in 2013. At this point, the chances of Cruz getting a big money offer from another team and that team surrending their 1st round draft pick are approaching zero. So, theoretically, you could consider Cruz being under contract with the Giants in 2013.
3) They are both slot receivers and seen as pivotal parts of the offense- I know this really has nothing to do with the contract negotiations but the similarities are freakisly similar.

The whole point of my post was that Cruz is assuming unessesary risk by not signing with the Gaints in the hope that he can do better in free agency. IMO, this is pie in the sky since he is forgoing the 4+ million he could make in 2013 and a signing bonus with guarenteed money right now and is risking getting injured and only getting the 2.8 million from the tender.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 05:47 PM
I agree Cruz can't just sign with another team, neither could Steve Smith at the time.

He has the option of signing a 5 year deal worth about $35M which is exactly what Steve Smith turned down. If he turns it down and gets injured this year playing for the Giants, he is Steve Smith 2.0

Where are you getting your numbers from?

ryan12
03-22-2013, 05:52 PM
You guys want Cruz "released"?

no way i love cruz it was about dd

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 05:53 PM
no way i love cruz it was about dd

But this is a Cruz thread.

fizzlesticks
03-22-2013, 05:56 PM
But this is a Cruz thread.

But the post he quoted was about DD.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 05:57 PM
I still think its a good comparison.

1) The Giants offered Smith a 5 year 35 million dollar contract in 2010, while he was a Giant. He refused and wanted to see what he could get in free agency. At the time of the offer, it was during the season and he was under contract with the Giants and couldn't talk to other teams.
2) The Giants probably offered Cruz a similar contract in 2013. He is currently still a Giant and most likely will be in 2013. At this point, the chances of Cruz getting a big money offer from another team and that team surrending their 1st round draft pick are approaching zero. So, theoretically, you could consider Cruz being under contract with the Giants in 2013.
3) They are both slot receivers and seen as pivotal parts of the offense- I know this really has nothing to do with the contract negotiations but the similarities are freakisly similar.

The whole point of my post was that Cruz is assuming unessesary risk by not signing with the Gaints in the hope that he can do better in free agency. IMO, this is pie in the sky since he is forgoing the 4+ million he could make in 2013 and a signing bonus with guarenteed money right now and is risking getting injured and only getting the 2.8 million from the tender.

I have consistently said the same thing except I don't characterize the risk as unnecessary. We all take risks and I don't think Cruz will take the risk of signing the tender UNLESS it's with the express purpose of extending the ongoing negotiations. If he does, and Tom Condon agrees, then he is willing to take the risk.

At some point in time, he has to sign the tender or take a long term offer. If he doesn't take the tender by a certain date I can't remember, the team cuts the $2.789M significantly.

darrin99
03-22-2013, 06:02 PM
[QUOTE=JB456;720004]

At some point in time, he has to sign the tender or take a long term offer. If he doesn't take the tender by a certain date I can't remember, the team cuts the $2.789M significantly.

I believe the date is 4/21.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 06:03 PM
[QUOTE=RoanokeFan;720017]

I believe the date is 4/21.

Thanks. I thought it was in June lol

darrin99
03-22-2013, 06:06 PM
[QUOTE=darrin99;720021]

Thanks. I thought it was in June lol

You may still be right. I know 4/21 is the last day they can sign an offer sheet, and there's another deadline for RFA's on 6/1. It's confusing.

darrin99
03-22-2013, 06:08 PM
April 19th
- Deadline for tendered RFAs to sign with different clubs

June 1st
- Deadline for original clubs to tender unsigned unrestricted free agents to secure exclusive negotiating rights for remainder of the season (assumes player not signed by another club by Jul 22)
- Deadline for original clubs to submit qualifying offer to unsigned exclusive rights free agents of 110 percent of previous year's salary to secure exclusive negotiating rights
- Deadline for original clubs to tender unsigned RFA or to extend qualifying offer (110% of previous year's salary) to retain exclusive negotiating rights with exclusive rights free agents

June 15th
- Original club can withdraw qualifying offers to unsigned RFAs but secure exclusive neg. rights by tendering 110% of 2012 salary

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 06:09 PM
[QUOTE=RoanokeFan;720023]

You may still be right. I know 4/21 is the last day they can sign an offer sheet, and there's another deadline for RFA's on 6/1. It's confusing.

I was born confused.

slipknottin
03-22-2013, 06:10 PM
Thanks. I thought it was in June lol

Cant be June, has to be before the draft. Otherwise teams would be giving up next years draft picks, instead of the current years.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 07:05 PM
Cant be June, has to be before the draft. Otherwise teams would be giving up next years draft picks, instead of the current years.

Yes, for the offer, but I think he has until June to sign the tender

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 07:53 PM
Where are you getting your numbers from?

Mara

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 07:58 PM
Mara

No way, he never talks numbers in public. Think about it. The same exact deal three years apart? Inflation alone makes that highly unlikely.

If Mara said it, maybe you could give us a link.

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 08:00 PM
No way, he never talks numbers in public. Think about it. The same exact deal three years apart? Inflation alone makes that highly unlikely.

If Mara said it, maybe you could give us a link.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1098714-steve-smith-why-the-new-york-giants-should-not-welcome-the-receiver-back

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 08:03 PM
Think about it. The same exact deal three years apart?

Actually if you do think about it, it makes perfect sense because the cap has been tightened over the last three years.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 08:06 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1098714-steve-smith-why-the-new-york-giants-should-not-welcome-the-receiver-back

That's not Mara saying it, that's a media head saying he said it. But let's say he did, you really think three years later a far superior player who is more versatile than Smith ever was is going to get the same offer? Steve Tisch has already said Cruz would get more than Welker.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 08:06 PM
Actually if you do think about it, it makes perfect sense because the cap has been tightened over the last three years.

The CAP has nothing to do with the current market value of players.

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 08:25 PM
That's not Mara saying it, that's a media head saying he said it. But let's say he did, you really think three years later a far superior player who is more versatile than Smith ever was is going to get the same offer? Steve Tisch has already said Cruz would get more than Welker.

Yes he did, and Welker got 6, which sorta kinda implies Cruz would get 7, which is what SS was offered.

Cruz is probably hoping for more, but he is under pressure to get it done now or risk becoming SS 2.0

I think this deal gets done now, no way Cruz takes that risk.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 08:26 PM
Yes he did, and Welker got 6, which sorta kinda implies Cruz would get 7, which is what SS was offered.

Cruz is probably hoping for more, but he is under pressure to get it done now or risk becoming SS 2.0

I think this deal gets done now, no way Cruz takes that risk.

I agree with the end result, and that's all that matters.

TCHOF
03-22-2013, 08:29 PM
The CAP has nothing to do with the current market value of players.

No? How's that?

Gimaniac
03-22-2013, 08:30 PM
I agree with the end result, and that's all that matters.

Cheers mate.

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 08:32 PM
Cheers mate.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJQ1ay98q6Ugq2uLyWjfbdqsEAXY3MV s_0retFzIVuNGm0p9QO

RoanokeFan
03-22-2013, 08:33 PM
No? How's that?

The CAP determines how much you spend in the aggregate, not each contract. A team could decide to do an Eli contract, as an example, and strap itself for a few years in terms of higher priced talent. The team decides how and on whom to spend the pot money.

The CAP is what it is no matter what the going rate for any particular player is worth, determined by FA and other factors.

bigblue58
03-23-2013, 07:27 AM
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/314827881828200448 good!

This is something that everyone is already well aware of, so does that make us all "NFL INSIDERS" too........like Schefter supposedly is?

RoanokeFan
03-23-2013, 07:33 AM
This is something that everyone is already well aware of, so does that make us all "NFL INSIDERS" too........like Schefter supposedly is?

When it comes to opinions, media heads are no more in touch than anyone else.

TCHOF
03-23-2013, 08:20 AM
The CAP determines how much you spend in the aggregate, not each contract. A team could decide to do an Eli contract, as an example, and strap itself for a few years in terms of higher priced talent. The team decides how and on whom to spend the pot money.

The CAP is what it is no matter what the going rate for any particular player is worth, determined by FA and other factors.

While it may be debatable exactly how much effect the CAP has on the market value of players, it certainly has some effect. A lot of players would be paid more if there was no CAP.

appodictic
03-23-2013, 03:46 PM
Funny thing about Victor Cruz he had a 1,000 yard 10 TD season. That is not all that. He is a good player, but you can see with Nicks limited and no manningham, and no ballard, he just got clamped down on. There are plenty of thousand yard receivers.

speed3freak
03-23-2013, 04:49 PM
Funny thing about Victor Cruz he had a 1,000 yard 10 TD season. That is not all that. He is a good player, but you can see with Nicks limited and no manningham, and no ballard, he just got clamped down on. There are plenty of thousand yard receivers.

There were only 19 1,000 yard WR last season. That is not a lot considering there are 32 teams. And only 9 WR scored double-digit touchdowns last year.