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View Full Version : Will Beatty VS. Justin Pugh . Comparing prospects.



Eli TO Shockey
04-29-2013, 10:22 PM
I dont remember being too excited about Beatty when we drafted him. Beatty seems to be a bit stronger. Interestingly enough they are the exact same height and weight. Beatty has longer arms of course :)

Beatty had a monster senior season at Uconn while Pugh was more consistant throughout his 3 years.


Maybe some of you draft gurus can help out.. who was the better prospect coming out of college?


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=32937&draftyear=2009&genpos=OT

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=95923&draftyear=2013&genpos=OT

slipknottin
04-29-2013, 11:21 PM
I thought Beatty was, because Beatty has the movement skills to be a LT.

I dont think Pugh is quite as athletic.

Pugh is more polished and will play sooner into his career.

BlueSanta
04-30-2013, 02:40 AM
Beatty was a bigger Risk because he had a lot more learning to do than Pugh. Pugh is very technically sound with excellent footwork. Beatty had to learn that stuff a bit more.

However, Beatty was a better athlete and had the better measurables, mainly because of his 34 3/4 inch arms. But was not as polished and needed a bit of coaching. I would however, note that Pugh is a very good athlete too.

But, the reason Pugh is a better prospect coming out because he has the ability to play so many positions along the line right out of the gate. It will extend his career and give him value throughout. Think how long ago would we have let David Deihl go if he were only able to play 1 position along the line? His versatility has extended his career by a good 2-3 years in my opinion.

Captain Chaos
04-30-2013, 06:49 AM
Interesting comparison, I think I was excited about Beaty when we picked him in the second round a great value pickup there. The tale of the tape indicates that Beaty is more explosive; looking at the vertical jump for example, Beaty leaped 33.5 while Pugh leaped 28.5 inches, similar disparity in the Long Jump. Certainly Pugh is a more polished player but Beaty in my mind is and will remain our LT.

penguinfarmer
04-30-2013, 08:42 AM
Probably two ends of the spectrum. Beatty was far more athletic, but needed a lot of work. Pugh is a pretty good technician coming out, but doesn't look to have the much more room to grow. I would have always figured the Giants' philosophy to covet the former rather than the latter.

Kruunch
04-30-2013, 09:09 AM
I thought Beatty was, because Beatty has the movement skills to be a LT.

I dont think Pugh is quite as athletic.

Pugh is more polished and will play sooner into his career.


This.

Beatty was all athleticism and upside. I also remember Beatty being graded higher (borderline first round grade).

Pugh is definitely more versatile though and Beatty was looked strictly as being an eventual LT, whereas I don't think they're envisioning that for Pugh (he'll probably be competing for the RT spot from the get go).

TheEnigma
04-30-2013, 11:48 AM
Pugh's athleticism strictly comes from his mobility which is pretty impressive and he's the kind of guy we want making blocks downfield for Wilson. It doesn't look like he has that much more room to add strength at this point and he could be one of the "weaker" offensive linemen in the league. I'm sure his personal value was boosted some due to the fact he has great intelligence and leadership qualities. One scout in fact said it was like having an extra coach on the field. I'll have to find that quote...

TheEnigma
04-30-2013, 12:01 PM
Three-year starter at LT. "He is short-armed (32), and he does play short-armed," one scout said. "Everybody wants to make him a guard because of that. That's fine. Maybe. I like bigger, thicker guys at guard. I'll make him a center. I was thinking about guys like Max Unger or Trey Teague, somebody that made the tackle-to-center switch. You can get away with shorter arms and less mass at center." Graduated with a degree in finance in 3 years. "One of the smartest guys I've (scouted) in 12 years," another scout said. "Like a coach on the field." From Holland, Pa. Played in a pro-style offense. "He came into our room at Indy and told us he was a left tackle, which I'm sure his agent told him to say because they make the most money," a third scout said. "He doesn't have the feet to play out on an island. He is ornery. Good technician. He's high intangibles. He bends well enough. He's a second- or third-round guy that will be a solid player for a long time."

Source - http://www.jsonline.com/sports/draft19g-rt9i5uh-203726121.html

myles2424
05-02-2013, 12:27 AM
I know one thing, just based on the fact we got Beatty at the end of the 2nd & spent a top 20 on Pugh, he better be a hell of a player....

Rat_bastich
05-02-2013, 05:32 AM
I was listening to an interview with Ernie Accorsi about Pugh. The question was brought up about his reach and Accorsi's reaction was...he isn't bussing tables. So there you go...Accorsi and his protege' are on board with this pick.

Also, interesting was that Accorsi talked about Eli's pro day and how JP Losman was there and eating up time that Eli was supposed to be on the field. Peyton and Archie were there also. Eli's agent turned to Accorsi and said, "see, there is the difference between Eli and Peyton. Peyton wants to kill Losman and Eli doesn't care."

Accorsi said Eli's attitude was a major factor for bringing him to New York.


Believe it was The Mike Lupica Show from 4/28.

Redeyejedi
05-02-2013, 07:41 AM
Pugh's lack of strength really bothers me

nycsportzfan
05-02-2013, 08:50 AM
Pugh's lack of strength really bothers me me 2.. Seems very ordinary to me, as a prospect...

slipknottin
05-02-2013, 09:17 AM
Pugh's lack of strength really bothers me

Is that from 2012 film? Or 2011?

Reese said 2012 he was clearly not at full strength with his shoulder injury, and seemed much stronger towards the end of the season when he was healed up

giantscolombia
05-02-2013, 09:49 AM
OOOOH! what a saucy thread! I wanna comment first before reading opinions.

Props to you bud.

Kruunch
05-02-2013, 09:50 AM
And he still managed 22 on the bench (not to mention coming back from said shoulder injury and giving up a half-sack and no hurries all year).

I don't think strength is an issue personally.

giantscolombia
05-02-2013, 09:54 AM
I was listening to an interview with Ernie Accorsi about Pugh. The question was brought up about his reach and Accorsi's reaction was...he isn't bussing tables. So there you go...Accorsi and his protege' are on board with this pick.


Okay, I know this is sort of beating a dead horse. I'm not an expert so here is my question. Is Pugh's arm length really that big of a problem?

From my stand point I imagine it is not, i mean it's not like it is 2" or 3" shorter. Is this really going to cause problems? or are some ppl just blowing it out of proportion?

slipknottin
05-02-2013, 02:32 PM
And he still managed 22 on the bench (not to mention coming back from said shoulder injury and giving up a half-sack and no hurries all year).

I don't think strength is an issue personally.

22 reps is pretty poor though, especially for someone with short arms.

I wonder if its shoulder related still?

penguinfarmer
05-02-2013, 03:38 PM
I don't think concerns about his strength is limited to his upper body [bench press / injured shoulder]. He does get pushed back his share and starts falling off kilter when engaged. That can be anywhere from his base to his core. I think that can obviously be remedied, I just don't think he has that much more to grow into.

Rat_bastich
05-03-2013, 07:34 AM
Okay, I know this is sort of beating a dead horse. I'm not an expert so here is my question. Is Pugh's arm length really that big of a problem?

From my stand point I imagine it is not, i mean it's not like it is 2" or 3" shorter. Is this really going to cause problems? or are some ppl just blowing it out of proportion?

Nope, not at all but it seems to be the 'experts' knock on him and something for fans to have fun with. Unless of course he is falling from an insane height and misses catching onto a branch by an inch or two or if the trainers and players get tired of buckling his chin strap for him.

BlueSanta
05-03-2013, 07:38 AM
I just don't think he has that much more to grow into.

That is the part of your statement I do not understand. Why do you think this? Do you have insight into his frame that we do not? Reese mentioned he has plenty of room for bulk. What is your basis? Is it the short arms?

Or, are you stating someone else's opinion? Because generally, unless I have actually seen the guy up close, I think it is impossible to tell this kind of information from a video of a guy playing football. He is 6'5 306 LBS, he is pretty lean for a guy that size. If anything, that would suggest he has plenty room to add bulk, maybe not as much as a guy with 35 inch arms, but he has plenty.

penguinfarmer
05-03-2013, 02:27 PM
That comment was more about upside than his stature. It's the old waver of would you rather select a talented specimen with limited football fundamentals or a more polished player who excelled through his technique in college moving onto the NFL where his opponents now also have that advantage.

I would have always assumed that the Giants valued the former as I believe it's easier to teach technique to a physically superior individual than to hope a player somehow develops some physical attributes he didn't have before.

Pugh was a pretty good technician coming out who compensated for his reach pretty well with his ability to shift and mirror. I don't think he was the athlete that Beatty was which is the premise of this thread.

Kruunch
05-03-2013, 02:40 PM
22 reps is pretty poor though, especially for someone with short arms.

I wonder if its shoulder related still?

Yeah if you have a bum shoulder you aren't benching squat. A strained rotator (or a healing one) would limit you a lot on that particular exercise.

He's never struck me as physically weak while playing (quite the opposite).

Eli TO Shockey
05-03-2013, 02:48 PM
Is that from 2012 film? Or 2011?

Reese said 2012 he was clearly not at full strength with his shoulder injury, and seemed much stronger towards the end of the season when he was healed up

And how limited was he in the weight room because of that shoulder injury.. All needs to be taken into account.

Eli TO Shockey
05-03-2013, 02:52 PM
That is the part of your statement I do not understand. Why do you think this? Do you have insight into his frame that we do not? Reese mentioned he has plenty of room for bulk. What is your basis? Is it the short arms?

Or, are you stating someone else's opinion? Because generally, unless I have actually seen the guy up close, I think it is impossible to tell this kind of information from a video of a guy playing football. He is 6'5 306 LBS, he is pretty lean for a guy that size. If anything, that would suggest he has plenty room to add bulk, maybe not as much as a guy with 35 inch arms, but he has plenty.

How do longer arms equate to a bodys ability to add more bulk?

Kruunch
05-03-2013, 03:39 PM
How do longer arms equate to a bodys ability to add more bulk?

Larger frame = more possible mass.

But I'm not sure longer arms would contribute significantly to that and we're really talking about adding 10-15 lbs at the most which he could certainly do without impacting his back step.

The "frame" talk is a little strange in that regard.

BlueSanta
05-03-2013, 07:27 PM
The "frame" talk is a little strange in that regard.

Which is why I brought it up. I can understand knocking Pugh for a variety of reasons. I just don't get why someone can say they think he has limited ability to add bulk without intimiate knowledge of his body(ok it just got weird in here.)

By all accounts of his coaches he has added a ton of strength in his time at Cuse, yet he is still somewhat of a lean guy. I could see him really adding that extra power quite easily under the supervision of a quality training program, such as the ones offered by NFL teams.


I do not think he will ever be a mauler, but with his excellent footwork and technique I don't think he has to be the strongest guy in the NFL to be successful. His strength isn't what concerns me about him because it is easier to add strength than it is to learn technique.. A guy with good technique and proper bend, such as he has, will be far more effective than a powerhouse with mediocre technique. Pancake blocks are nice for pro bowl votes, but are no more effective than simply keeping the guy you are supposed to block from making the tackle or sack. Pugh is not a perfect pick, but he is pretty good at keeping the guy he is blocking from making the play, and that is ultimately what it is all about.

penguinfarmer
05-03-2013, 08:04 PM
Again, no one was talking about his body. The comparison was between Beatty and Pugh, and that Pugh doesn't seem like he has that much more to grow into as a player as Beatty did with less athleticism and better technique.

BlueSanta
05-03-2013, 09:04 PM
Again, no one was talking about his body. The comparison was between Beatty and Pugh, and that Pugh doesn't seem like he has that much more to grow into as a player as Beatty did with less athleticism and better technique.

I understand. But, you must see from your post why we would think you were talking about his frame. You were talking about his strength then went right into "not having much room to grow into."

Easy to misunderstand. No biggie.

Tbonenc
05-18-2013, 12:24 PM
Hopefully, Beatty, with his long arms and vertical can stay on the field this season.

EliMVP-NYG
05-20-2013, 08:17 PM
Everyone already knows Pugh's arms are too short to be a LT. He will make a great guard some day tho.

slipknottin
05-21-2013, 05:02 PM
Everyone already knows Pugh's arms are too short to be a LT. He will make a great guard some day tho.

I dont agree with this. Dont think Pugh's arm length will be that much of a factor at either OT position.

giants8493
05-22-2013, 01:03 AM
I dont agree with this. Dont think Pugh's arm length will be that much of a factor at either OT position.His arms are a just a little shorter then joe thomas and jake long.

giantsfan420
05-26-2013, 06:10 AM
hes gonna end up being regarded as the best OL in the draft class 5 yrs down the line

Mr.TRUEBLUE
10-12-2013, 07:59 AM
You got that backwards ..PUGH is MUCH MORE ATHLETIC just smaller body/arm frame but much better feet

Redeyejedi
10-12-2013, 09:57 AM
I dont remember being too excited about Beatty when we drafted him. Beatty seems to be a bit stronger. Interestingly enough they are the exact same height and weight. Beatty has longer arms of course :)

Beatty had a monster senior season at Uconn while Pugh was more consistant throughout his 3 years.


Maybe some of you draft gurus can help out.. who was the better prospect coming out of college?


http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=32937&draftyear=2009&genpos=OT

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=95923&draftyear=2013&genpos=OT

I thought Beatty was I had him rated as a late first round pick while I had Pugh in the back of the second.