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Red Dog
05-02-2013, 04:23 PM
All those who claim Reese should have drafted a CB and a LB instead of the positions he did draft?
It appears that Reese bolstered the positions in front of and behind the corners and Line backers by drafting linemen and a safety/linebacker.
Will Reese's (enclosing) draft choices improve CB and LB play thereby negating drafting either of those positions for at least this year?

My opinion, barring major injuries we shouldn't be any worse at Lb or corner this year and perhaps improved
After camp cuts by other teams won't be surprised if Reese snatches up a LB and/or a corner .
The OLine got younger and beefier and more athletic
The DLine got nasty in the middle and quick on the end
The safety position may have gottena real deal steal
Another running back to make DRrayScott make it or break it this year through competition. (I believe this draft choice was for that reason)
With these kind of observations I just can't believe the NSL have not offered me a sportswriter position yet to cover the Giants

RoanokeFan
05-02-2013, 04:24 PM
John Mara said they needed to improve in the trenches and that was their approach. I think that went pretty well.

JesseJames
05-02-2013, 04:42 PM
I don't know what Reese is thinking about the LBer position but if he plans on scouring the FAs and cuts for another bargain basement pickup it will most likely be more of what we already have too much of. I know most people feel that the LBer position has been devalued, I don't, when I see teams with good defenses I always see good LBers on them...

lll
05-02-2013, 04:55 PM
LBers are devalued, but they're not devalued enough where you can just throw garbage out there and survive. There has to be some level of quality or you're playing with fire and setting yourself up for problems.

The value wasn't there in the draft, so I don't blame them for not reaching for a LB (or CB), but there's likely going to be some pretty brutal games for this defense, as the roster is currently constructed, unless some of the young guys on the team that haven't shown a lot to now suddenly do show something.

joemorrisforprez
05-02-2013, 05:18 PM
It's no coincidence that teams with better linebackers have better defenses than the Giants.

I've been waiting a few years now, but the linebacking tradition for the Giants has gone off life support and has now flat-lined.

If I wanted to get the opinion of the value of linebackers, I would no longer consider the Giants the leading organization to ask. I'd take the opinion of the Bears, Steelers, Ravens or 49ers over whatever Reese has to say about that particular subject.

Sovereign
05-02-2013, 05:26 PM
It's no coincidence that teams with better linebackers have better defenses than the Giants.

I've been waiting a few years now, but the linebacking tradition for the Giants has gone off life support and has now flat-lined.

If I wanted to get the opinion of the value of linebackers, I would no longer consider the Giants the leading organization to ask. I'd take the opinion of the Bears, Steelers, Ravens or 49ers over whatever Reese has to say about that particular subject.

Considering nearly every team has a better than than the Giants your LB claims means little.

brad
05-02-2013, 05:30 PM
I would take Reese's opinion over some anonymous poster on a message board... but this anonymous poster thinks the LB position in particular has not been given enough attention. That being said, any of the LBs available in the draft when the Giants were picking were probably a reach and would not have had an immediate impact anyway. I am not sure that there is much that can be done at this point with the limited salary cap room, but would be ecstatic if they managed to make a move to bolster the LB group before the season started.

jomo
05-02-2013, 05:34 PM
Who have we lost at CB? No one. Hosley and Prince a year older. We are certainly better there. LB, same old same old.

drewz
05-02-2013, 05:37 PM
Who have we lost at CB? No one. Hosley and Prince a year older. We are certainly better there. LB, same old same old.

There's no guarantee that Hosley will be better this year.

Prince maybe, but I still don't think he's good enough to hold down a legit #1 receiver.

jomo
05-02-2013, 07:27 PM
There's no guarantee that Hosley will be better this year.

Prince maybe, but I still don't think he's good enough to hold down a legit #1 receiver.Life has no guarantees my friend but when you have a rookie CB who shows some flash, the chances of growth in year 2 are pretty good, Here's a glass. It's half full.

brad
05-02-2013, 07:34 PM
Life has no guarantees my friend but when you have a rookie CB who shows some flash, the chances of growth in year 2 are pretty good, Here's a glass. It's half full.

It's either half full, half empty, or completely full... half filled with water and half filled with air :)

penguinfarmer
05-02-2013, 07:55 PM
Coughlin stated they had weaknesses in the secondary and lb corps. But sometimes the players just aren't there in 7 rounds of 32 or more picks.

Flip Empty
05-02-2013, 08:08 PM
If I wanted to get the opinion of the value of linebackers, I would no longer consider the Giants the leading organization to ask. I'd take the opinion of the Bears, Steelers, Ravens or 49ers over whatever Reese has to say about that particular subject.
With the exception of the Bears, they all run a 3-4.

I'm not sure why you're so concerned with this "tradition" of linebackers. Things change -- the team changes. The Giants have found success with this setup so it's not as if they're doing anything wrong.

jomo
05-02-2013, 08:09 PM
It's either half full, half empty, or completely full... half filled with water and half filled with air :)I prefer to hang with optomists. Life's too short. :)

brad
05-02-2013, 08:37 PM
I prefer to hang with optomists. Life's too short. :)

Absolutely agree.... or the engineer, because then the glass is always full :D

joemorrisforprez
05-02-2013, 08:54 PM
With the exception of the Bears, they all run a 3-4.

I'm not sure why you're so concerned with this "tradition" of linebackers. Things change -- the team changes. The Giants have found success with this setup so it's not as if they're doing anything wrong.

I don't consider 31st in the league successful. I'm not living in 2011.

But if you want to revisit 2011, the Giants defense was getting it's *** handed to it because they didn't know what the hell they were doing until Reese resigned - guess who???.....Chase Blackburn. Boley also had a career year.

Back in 2007, a great deal of credit should go to Antonio Pierce - yes, a linebacker - for executing Pags' defense. Kawika Mitchell and Chase Blackburn gave them an effective linebacking unit.

The Bears and Giants run a similar system. Perry Fewell worked under Lovie Smith with the Bears and Rams. The Cover 2 requires good linebackers....it's something the Bears understand....it's why they drafted 2 more this year. The Giants signed Dan Connor to replace Blackburn and Boley.

Certain teams value linebackers.....the Giants don't, and the Giants defense also happened to suck *** last year. Go figure.

Sovereign
05-02-2013, 09:26 PM
Who have we lost at CB? No one. Hosley and Prince a year older. We are certainly better there. LB, same old same old.

...Really dude? Week ONE last year we had to play Justin Tryon. He actually had to play clutch minutes in which he lost the game for us. Webster's horrendous play killed us again.

Oh yeah Aaron Ross and Terrell Thomas are going to be our saviors. How could I forget.

jomo
05-02-2013, 10:09 PM
...Really dude? Week ONE last year we had to play Justin Tryon. He actually had to play clutch minutes in which he lost the game for us. Webster's horrendous play killed us again.

Oh yeah Aaron Ross and Terrell Thomas are going to be our saviors. How could I forget. ? OP said we are worse this year at CB than last year..

B&RWarrior
05-02-2013, 10:22 PM
John Mara said they needed to improve in the trenches and that was their approach. I think that went pretty well.

This draft has TC written all over it, with the exception of the Nassib pick.

Toadofsteel
05-02-2013, 10:27 PM
I think the rationale behind beefing up the trenches (especially with 9000 DTs we have on the roster right now) is that our run defense faltered at the line. If the line is able to plug the gaps, the linebackers won't have to defend against the run nearly as much, and we can use more 3 safety set to defend the pass...

Drez
05-02-2013, 10:29 PM
I don't consider 31st in the league successful. I'm not living in 2011.

But if you want to revisit 2011, the Giants defense was getting it's *** handed to it because they didn't know what the hell they were doing until Reese resigned - guess who???.....Chase Blackburn. Boley also had a career year.

Back in 2007, a great deal of credit should go to Antonio Pierce - yes, a linebacker - for executing Pags' defense. Kawika Mitchell and Chase Blackburn gave them an effective linebacking unit.

The Bears and Giants run a similar system. Perry Fewell worked under Lovie Smith with the Bears and Rams. The Cover 2 requires good linebackers....it's something the Bears understand....it's why they drafted 2 more this year. The Giants signed Dan Connor to replace Blackburn and Boley.

Certain teams value linebackers.....the Giants don't, and the Giants defense also happened to suck *** last year. Go figure.Our championship defenses were fueled by a DL that was getting the job done. The LBs weren't playing much better than average to good. When the DL is getting it's job done the rest of the defense looks better.

Drez
05-02-2013, 10:29 PM
I think the rationale behind beefing up the trenches (especially with 9000 DTs we have on the roster right now) is that our run defense faltered at the line. If the line is able to plug the gaps, the linebackers won't have to defend against the run nearly as much, and we can use more 3 safety set to defend the pass...Not only that, but the LBs won't have to fight off as many blocks in the run game, making them more effective.

Toadofsteel
05-02-2013, 10:32 PM
Not only that, but the LBs won't have to fight off as many blocks in the run game, making them more effective.

I believe that Canty's injury was more than he let on (part of why he was released, although his salary factored into it too). Kuhn was decent (especially so for a 7th round rookie), but he went down too. Rocky was beyond done, and Austin is a flat out bust. I like the moves made at DT to be completely honest. Linval, Jenkins, Hankins, Kuhn, and Patterson are all capable of competing for that job, and we can keep them rotating to stay fresh.

TAILGATIN'
05-03-2013, 08:23 AM
That being said, any of the LBs available in the draft when the Giants were picking were probably a reach and would not have had an immediate impact anyway.
Huh? Id say you're a little off here. How were Arthur Brown or Bostic a reach when they were there in the 2nd? Greene or Porter in 4th (awesome value)? Beauharnais there in 7th? You can blame JR not taking a LB for many reasons, but none of those guys were reaches in those rounds.

Kruunch
05-03-2013, 08:30 AM
My opinion, barring major injuries we shouldn't be any worse at Lb ...

I think the only way we could be worse at LBer is if we gave our current group a scorching case of leprosy and a few back-scratchers.

Mercury
05-03-2013, 08:37 AM
It sucks to see LBers be neglected year after year, but this building method has worked for us recently and hopefully will continue to work for us.

GameTime
05-03-2013, 09:02 AM
the front end and back end of the defense is the priority. Reese does what he does with the LB situation because thats the value he places on that postion within his idea of defense and within the Giants scheme of defense.....

TAILGATIN'
05-03-2013, 09:20 AM
the front end and back end of the defense is the priority. Reese does what he does with the LB situation because thats the value he places on that postion within his idea of defense and within the Giants scheme of defense.....
I agree, but also think having a talented player at the position who also fits the leader role could only improve our overall D. As far as CBs, unless I was watching a different team, our secondary (except Prince) got burned time and time again last season. The only way I see us improving there is if Webby is able to step it up and play like he used to, or Hosley becomes the next in line and shows us what he was so great at in college. If those things do not happen, expect more of what we saw last year.

Kruunch
05-03-2013, 09:22 AM
the front end and back end of the defense is the priority. Reese does what he does with the LB situation because thats the value he places on that postion within his idea of defense and within the Giants scheme of defense.....

That'd be awesome if he were our DC.

I don't like depending on multiple people overachieving to produce a quality defense.

timmytimm3
05-03-2013, 09:28 AM
I believe that Canty's injury was more than he let on (part of why he was released, although his salary factored into it too). Kuhn was decent (especially so for a 7th round rookie), but he went down too. Rocky was beyond done, and Austin is a flat out bust. I like the moves made at DT to be completely honest. Linval, Jenkins, Hankins, Kuhn, and Patterson are all capable of competing for that job, and we can keep them rotating to stay fresh.

I'm excited to see the DT play this year. Rogers still has a chance to make some plays off the bench. Kuhn is coming off a knee surgery. Austin....?

JesseJames
05-03-2013, 10:34 AM
It's no coincidence that teams with better linebackers have better defenses than the Giants.

I've been waiting a few years now, but the linebacking tradition for the Giants has gone off life support and has now flat-lined.

If I wanted to get the opinion of the value of linebackers, I would no longer consider the Giants the leading organization to ask. I'd take the opinion of the Bears, Steelers, Ravens or 49ers over whatever Reese has to say about that particular subject.

I agree with you and nobody can tell me there was no LBer available at the time we drafted who could have been better than what we have and that goes for the last 9 years, I don't buy into all this highest rated player on the board crap, if you need a LBer you go into the draft and get the best one available . I know nobody will agree with me but if Reese had done this since he's been here we would have some damn good LBers and we wouldn't be having this discussion...

JesseJames
05-03-2013, 10:36 AM
I would take Reese's opinion over some anonymous poster on a message board... but this anonymous poster thinks the LB position in particular has not been given enough attention. That being said, any of the LBs available in the draft when the Giants were picking were probably a reach and would not have had an immediate impact anyway. I am not sure that there is much that can be done at this point with the limited salary cap room, but would be ecstatic if they managed to make a move to bolster the LB group before the season started.

is it your feeling that in the last 9 years there has never been a good LBer who was worth the pick when we drafted?

JesseJames
05-03-2013, 10:42 AM
Reese went into this draft and did exactly what the owner told the media he wanted to do, get tough in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Now do any of you doubt that if Mara said he wanted better LBers that we wouldn't have drafted LBers very early in the draft instead of none...

Giant303
05-03-2013, 12:42 PM
07-Aaron Ross, Steve smith, Jay Alford(DT), Zak DeOssie(LB), Kevin Boss,Adam Koets(OT), Michael Johnson(S),Ahmad Bradshaw(RB)
08-Kenny Phillips,Terrell Thomas,Mario Manningham,Bryan Kehl(LB),Johnathan Goff(LB),Andre Woodson(QB),Robert Henderson(DE)
09-Hakeem Nicks(WR),Will Beatty(OL),Ramses Barden(WR),Travis Beckum(TE),Andre Brown(RB),Rhett Bomar(QB),Deandre Wright(CB),Stoney Woodson(CB)
10-JPP(DE),Linval Joseph(DT),Chad Jones(S)**Navarro Bowman taken 15 picks later,Phillip Dillard(LB),Mitch Petrus(G),Adrian Tracy(LB),Matt Dodge(P)
11-Prince Amukamara(CB),Marvin Austin(DT),Jerrel Jernigan(WR),James Brewer(Ot),Greg Jones(LB),Tyler Sash(S),Jacquian Williams(LB),Da'Rel Scott (RB)
12-David Wilson(RB),Rueben Randle(WR),Jayron Hosley(CB),Adrien Robinson(TE)**Danny Trevethan taken 60 picks later,Brandon Mosley(OT),Matt MCcants(OT),Markus Kuhn(DT)

in 07 he could have taken Jon Beason over Aaron Ross,but we had AP at the time so that would make no sense. Looking at where the giants were picking since JR has taken over he's missed on 2 IMO special linebackers(Bowman and Trevethan)...so no sweat In Reese we trust.

joemorrisforprez
05-03-2013, 04:14 PM
Reese went into this draft and did exactly what the owner told the media he wanted to do, get tough in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Now do any of you doubt that if Mara said he wanted better LBers that we wouldn't have drafted LBers very early in the draft instead of none...

Great point.

Fortunately, I think you couldn't ask for a better coach than Coughlin in terms of getting the most out of his players. So, it could be that some players (e.g., Herzlich, Paysinger) step up and surprise me. Maybe Rivers can actually stay healthy and live up to his lofty draft pick hype. Maybe J-Will will learn how to shed a block.

I'm really pulling for all of them, because unless Reese pulls the trigger on a free agent, that's what they'll be working with in 2013.

Moke
05-03-2013, 04:22 PM
Idk man, I hope they are right.