PDA

View Full Version : Joseph and Hankins duo.



TheAussieGiant
05-04-2013, 02:47 AM
For this thread lets just pretend that Hankins works out to be the player he is touted to be.

I keep hearing that Hankins a man monster, that he is always moving forward when single blocked and rarely takes a backward step when double blocked. Linval demands much the same attention from defenses. However, I keep hearing that Hankins is strictly a run-stuffer. This doesn't make sense to me if we get both Linval and Hankins squeezing that pocket while our DE's bring the pressure surely this will rattle the QBs and add some sacks/intercepts.

Instead we seem to find these smaller DT's or throw an extra DE in there, that supposedly are penetrators and expect them to get to the QB quickly. When more often than not I see these guys get held up by Guards.

Wouldn't it work to keep these big guys like Linval and Hankins in to squeeze the pocket rather than hope that a smaller lineman can slip a block for the odd sack here or there?

Rat_bastich
05-04-2013, 03:20 AM
I think the sacks will come as a result of stuffing the run. At some point if the offense is going to not be able to run they are going to have to start passing. With both Joseph and Hankins getting successful pressure up the middle they would require a double team leaving someone free on the outside because most likely the tight end or a running back is going to be kept in to assist in protection. The defensive ends should be able to get in there and at least get some pressure.

I think folks are enamored with sack stats for d-linemen, but defensive ends in the 4-3 should be the sack artists. The stats for tackles would be more tackles and pressures.

TheAussieGiant
05-04-2013, 06:39 AM
I just find that these small guys need room to move and when they don't have it (Kiwi playing dt on pass downs) they seem to have a lot of trouble slipping those blocks.

I may just be missing something or over simplifying what happens in the trenches. But the best DTs I've ever seen are the big ones that don't slip blocks, they force the C/G into the QBs faces. I've only been a Giants/NFL fan since 2003 but the best I've seen our line function were when Cofield and Robbins were causing that consistent push in the middle of the pocket. So many of our DE's sacks then came from them trying to roll out of the pocket, the QB had a clock in their head because they could see that pressure coming in their face.

Really wondering, do we keep throwing in those smaller guys to rush the passer on passing downs because they are supposedly more succesful. Or is it because its so hard to find these big guys that can push the pocket.

Rat_bastich
05-04-2013, 07:13 AM
I just find that these small guys need room to move and when they don't have it (Kiwi playing dt on pass downs) they seem to have a lot of trouble slipping those blocks.

I may just be missing something or over simplifying what happens in the trenches. But the best DTs I've ever seen are the big ones that don't slip blocks, they force the C/G into the QBs faces. I've only been a Giants/NFL fan since 2003 but the best I've seen our line function were when Cofield and Robbins were causing that consistent push in the middle of the pocket. So many of our DE's sacks then came from them trying to roll out of the pocket, the QB had a clock in their head because they could see that pressure coming in their face.

Really wondering, do we keep throwing in those smaller guys to rush the passer on passing downs because they are supposedly more succesful. Or is it because its so hard to find these big guys that can push the pocket.

Hankins is a big guy at 322 lbs. but doesn't have much height, which I think is the reason that he plays high instead of getting that leverage a guy of his height could benefit from.

With defensive tackles becoming more athletic over the years, the offensive line has to account for their athleticism and they then become more of a nuisance or distraction while the ends benefit from their work. If they can occupy the offensive linemen it works to the benefit of the linebakcers who don't have to stack and shed and the ends to make a clean rush to the quarterback. At least that is what is supposed to happen. Last year we suffered because only Joseph seemed to do anything from the tackle spot and our ends were not doing much. Hankins is a bull rusher type so he should be able to push the line back and disrupt the quarterback's timing(http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/1/19/3892180/nfl-draft-2013-scouting-report-johnathan-hankins).

The biggest key is to cause the quarterback to hold on to the ball longer and create happy feet. Break his fundamentals down and cause him to throw errant passes or stand their and take the sack.

Redeyejedi
05-04-2013, 08:35 AM
Or Hankins was brought in because Linval is a FA next season and the Giants are going to let him walk because they wont be able to sign him.

Redeyejedi
05-04-2013, 08:38 AM
I just find that these small guys need room to move and when they don't have it (Kiwi playing dt on pass downs) they seem to have a lot of trouble slipping those blocks.

I may just be missing something or over simplifying what happens in the trenches. But the best DTs I've ever seen are the big ones that don't slip blocks, they force the C/G into the QBs faces. I've only been a Giants/NFL fan since 2003 but the best I've seen our line function were when Cofield and Robbins were causing that consistent push in the middle of the pocket. So many of our DE's sacks then came from them trying to roll out of the pocket, the QB had a clock in their head because they could see that pressure coming in their face.

Really wondering, do we keep throwing in those smaller guys to rush the passer on passing downs because they are supposedly more succesful. Or is it because its so hard to find these big guys that can push the pocket.I dont think its bigger or smaller just talent level. When Tuck was at the top of his game he was unstoppable inside. Thats when the Giant defense was at its best.

Captain Chaos
05-04-2013, 09:57 AM
Watching some of his tape this guy doesn't go backwards...ever. He normally gets double teamed and if he doesn't he collapses the pocket quickly. One of the things I think will happen at this level is that he will continue to be able to beat the 1 v 1 match ups and require double team, this makes it soooo much better for our Des. If JPP, Tuck or whoever is on the outside is singled up they are really going to be tough. The other thing is the LBs will have a much easier job against the run. I really liked this pick!

GameTime
05-04-2013, 10:01 AM
For this thread lets just pretend that Hankins works out to be the player he is touted to be.

I'd rather not pretend......but if I was to I were pretend he was going to just be a rookie and may suck. This way anything esle is a plus.

B&RWarrior
05-04-2013, 11:18 AM
Hankins > Joseph versus the run. If Joseph asks for a large contract we may let him ride into the sunset, because as good as many people like to claim he is it sure didn't help our defense last year. I'd like to keep them both.

DT2012
05-04-2013, 02:00 PM
Hankins may not be taller than Joseph but he is BIGGER than Linval is!!!!! Hankins has to cut down to get to 320+ pounds. I can almost guarantee he was a good 20 pounds more than that on draft day. He is wide from shoulders all the way down, huge legs. He was originally said to be the next Dontari Poe but Poe never did what Hankins did stat wise or game tape wise on the field. The only reason Hankins didn't go first round was this belief that he took plays off or got tired. It came out much later he got tired after being in for 60+ plays a game on Defense. How many guys his size do that?? Never come off the field when the Defense is out there. He will never come close to 60+ to 70 plays a game while playing in the NFL. So the Giants getting him at 49th is HUGE!!!! I hope Linval stays after this year and the Giants are able to reach a deal with him but If not there are other DT in the draft next year young that can come in to take his place.

Carter.525
05-04-2013, 02:07 PM
For this thread lets just pretend that Hankins works out to be the player he is touted to be.I keep hearing that Hankins a man monster, that he is always moving forward when single blocked and rarely takes a backward step when double blocked. Linval demands much the same attention from defenses. However, I keep hearing that Hankins is strictly a run-stuffer. This doesn't make sense to me if we get both Linval and Hankins squeezing that pocket while our DE's bring the pressure surely this will rattle the QBs and add some sacks/intercepts.Instead we seem to find these smaller DT's or throw an extra DE in there, that supposedly are penetrators and expect them to get to the QB quickly. When more often than not I see these guys get held up by Guards. Wouldn't it work to keep these big guys like Linval and Hankins in to squeeze the pocket rather than hope that a smaller lineman can slip a block for the odd sack here or there?Do you mean Mr. Hankins the Christmas Poo?

Sovereign
05-04-2013, 02:20 PM
It only doesn't make sense if you think Linval is a strict one tech...He's actually better at rushing the passer than commanding double teams. The dude has 4 sacks and he spent a lot of time trying to anchor.

B&RWarrior
05-04-2013, 04:17 PM
It only doesn't make sense if you think Linval is a strict one tech...He's actually better at rushing the passer than commanding double teams. The dude has 4 sacks and he spent a lot of time trying to anchor.

I think he's overrated as an anchor. He does have some pass rush skills, but we got destroyed up the middle ( and eveywhere else) last year. People want to lay the all the blame at Canty and the LBs door, but he was a part of that soft middle. If it's because he played to many snaps then Hankins is going to help relieve him of that problem.

myles2424
05-04-2013, 05:48 PM
Whats the issue with his height? Anyone that's ever played Oline will think that's nonsense...
My uncle & father both went thru college & into the league, both at 6'5 & 6'6 and always say the shorter quik guys were the biggest pain in the *** to block....mean while the guys 6'4+ you could get all into their body & handle them easily...
Look at guys like geno Atkins,6'1 and a beast.....also, Hankins is 6'3, that's ideal IMO....

DVision
05-04-2013, 07:25 PM
Whats the issue with his height? Anyone that's ever played Oline will think that's nonsense...
My uncle & father both went thru college & into the league, both at 6'5 & 6'6 and always say the shorter quik guys were the biggest pain in the *** to block....mean while the guys 6'4+ you could get all into their body & handle them easily...
Look at guys like geno Atkins,6'1 and a beast.....also, Hankins is 6'3, that's ideal IMO....

Nothing. His supposed NFL comparison, Vince Wilfork is 6'2".