PDA

View Full Version : Hakeem Nicks and Justin Tuck determine our fate this season



EliManningUp
05-05-2013, 10:12 AM
It's very simple...nicks staying healthy and tuck regaining form are the 2 biggest keys to 2013. Everything else will fall in line.

brad
05-05-2013, 10:16 AM
I agree with Nicks... but, it wasn't just Tuck that had difficulty on the D-line last year. JPP and Osi were not up to their 2011 form either. When you see that much drop-off in production among the entire DE group, it is wise to look at other potential causes. The main one I would look at is how offenses were negating the pass rush.

Old Giant
05-05-2013, 10:16 AM
I don't know that I could blame or praise them before the season starts. To me, it all starts with Eli. Nothing works if he is off.

ironfox
05-05-2013, 10:20 AM
i agree with tuck needing to regain form especialy if he is named defensive captain again. hopfully nicks wont get hurt this year but if he does i think the signing of murphy and a year of pro ball under randle's belt make us deeper than we were last year

Carter.525
05-05-2013, 10:21 AM
a healthy Nicks is one scary dude.. I hope this is the case this season..

B&RWarrior
05-05-2013, 10:22 AM
There are a lot of things that need to go right for us to reach home field in February 2014.

fletch842
05-05-2013, 10:30 AM
There are a lot of things that need to go right for us to reach home field in February 2014.
We be the first team since 2000, to even make the playoffs when hosting the Superbowl. Here's to cursebreakers!! :cool:

Diamondring
05-05-2013, 11:21 AM
a healthy Nicks is one scary dude.. I hope this is the case this season..It seems to me some don't know his value and we can make it alone with just Cruz.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 11:50 AM
It's very simple...nicks staying healthy and tuck regaining form are the 2 biggest keys to 2013. Everything else will fall in line.

That's very optimistic.

ashleymarie
05-05-2013, 12:35 PM
There are a lot of things that need to go right for us to reach home field in February 2014.

Lots of stars and moons will need to line up. Not impossible though.

craigjr007
05-05-2013, 01:01 PM
Hmm I would say more nicks then secondary after that deff tuck

ELI_HOF_NYG
05-05-2013, 03:54 PM
It's very simple...nicks staying healthy and tuck regaining form are the 2 biggest keys to 2013. Everything else will fall in line.

no,,,the OL and the DL have to play much better.

jomo
05-05-2013, 04:11 PM
I wish Tuck were still good enough to determine our fate. I don't believe that's true anymore.
Nicks is one of the key determinants and of course the OL.

egyptian420
05-05-2013, 04:21 PM
I agree with Nicks... but, it wasn't just Tuck that had difficulty on the D-line last year. JPP and Osi were not up to their 2011 form either. When you see that much drop-off in production among the entire DE group, it is wise to look at other potential causes. The main one I would look at is how offenses were negating the pass rush.I agree with this....I think our poor secondary and lack of depth at DT contributed to our non-existant pass rush last year. I'd like to think we've addressed the DT issue but our secondary still scares the crap out of me.

Our CB's + LB's = Quick slants, passes down the middle, Witten breaking reception records on us...etc

ELI_HOF_NYG
05-05-2013, 04:23 PM
I agree with this....I think our poor secondary and lack of depth at DT contributed to our non-existant pass rush last year. I'd like to think we've addressed the DT issue but our secondary still scares the crap out of me.

Our CB's + LB's = Quick slants, passes down the middle, Witten breaking reception records on us...etc

the secondary was bad last year maimly because the front 7 generated ZERO pressure,,you cant expect those guys to stay with their men all day long.

egyptian420
05-05-2013, 04:31 PM
the secondary was bad last year maimly because the front 7 generated ZERO pressure,,you cant expect those guys to stay with their men all day long.I don't have stats with me but I seem to recall a ton of quick passes last year. But some games like the Bengals do stick out where our pass rush was literally doing nothing.

Let's not kid ourselves though, our secondary was TRASH last year, there is a reason why many of us expected Rhodes or another CB in the first round, only to find out we weren't getting a CB in the entire draft, instead we get T2 back and more of Webster. I expect our secondary to be terrible again this year.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 04:31 PM
I agree with this....I think our poor secondary and lack of depth at DT contributed to our non-existant pass rush last year. I'd like to think we've addressed the DT issue but our secondary still scares the crap out of me.

Our CB's + LB's = Quick slants, passes down the middle, Witten breaking reception records on us...etc

If the DLine does actually improve in terms of pressure, the secondary will automatically benefit.

egyptian420
05-05-2013, 04:38 PM
If the DLine does actually improve in terms of pressure, the secondary will automatically benefit. I sure hope so (that the D-line improves). On paper they sure look like a stacked unit: Hankins, Jenkins, Linval, Kuhn, Moore, Ojomo, Patterson, JPP, Rogers, Tracy, Tuck, Trattou, and Austin

They really don't have an excuse to not be better.

FishinTheSalt
05-05-2013, 04:50 PM
...and all this time I thought it was a team sport. I agree we need both lines to play better.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 04:59 PM
I sure hope so (that the D-line improves). On paper they sure look like a stacked unit: Hankins, Jenkins, Linval, Kuhn, Moore, Ojomo, Patterson, JPP, Rogers, Tracy, Tuck, Trattou, and Austin

They really don't have an excuse to not be better.

As if we need an excuse to suck :cool:

jomo
05-05-2013, 05:37 PM
...and all this time I thought it was a team sport. I agree we need both lines to play better...............or replace them with someone better. In Tuck's case, sorry to say, that won't be difficult.

Drez
05-05-2013, 05:40 PM
Witten breaking reception records on us...etcDidn't we win that game?

egyptian420
05-05-2013, 05:42 PM
Didn't we win that game?Thank God Dez' pinky wasn't severed. If it was we would've lost that game.

Drez
05-05-2013, 07:29 PM
Thank God Dez' pinky wasn't severed. If it was we would've lost that game.That was just an ugly defensive showing on that drive. Holy crap. ​that play!

egyptian420
05-05-2013, 07:42 PM
That was just an ugly defensive showing on that drive. Holy crap. ​that play!On that drive? Basically the entire second half we couldn't stop a damn thing, we got totally lucky that Dez' pinky was out and we got saved by the bell. They manhandled our D in that second half. Witten made us his #####.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 07:46 PM
On that drive? Basically the entire second half we couldn't stop a damn thing, we got totally lucky that Dez' pinky was out and we got saved by the bell. They manhandled our D in that second half. Witten made us his #####.

Sometimes luck is as good as flawless play

nhpgiantsfan
05-05-2013, 08:09 PM
If we are putting the fate of our season on Justin Tuck, we are in for a long year. He is nothing more than average at this point.

Joe Morrison
05-06-2013, 01:57 AM
If we are putting the fate of our season on Justin Tuck, we are in for a long year. He is nothing more than average at this point.
+1

Antwuan
05-06-2013, 02:57 AM
It's very simple...nicks staying healthy and tuck regaining form are the 2 biggest keys to 2013. Everything else will fall in line.

Nicks has to stay healthy, Tuck just needs to simply play better he hasn't played well since the 2010 season but I will give some credit for the 2011 playoff run.

BlueSanta
05-06-2013, 02:59 AM
Well, if this is true we should cut everyone else. That's a colossal waste of money.

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 07:32 AM
On that drive? Basically the entire second half we couldn't stop a damn thing, we got totally lucky that Dez' pinky was out and we got saved by the bell. They manhandled our D in that second half. Witten made us his #####.That game should have never been close. Poor showing by the defense but even worse by the offense. How many turnovers did the defense make? The defense even scored a TD.

GameTime
05-06-2013, 08:28 AM
yeah....two players will make or break the season...
lets see......Oline needs consistency, Dline has to show up, Eli has to keep the picks below 10, a pass catchingTE has to emerge, CBs???

please....not as simple as Nicks and Tuck doing their job...

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 08:31 AM
yeah....two players will make or break the season...
lets see......Oline needs consistency, Dline has to show up, Eli has to keep the picks below 10, a pass catchingTE has to emerge, CBs???

please....not as simple as Nicks and Tuck doing their job...

The answers are never simple

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 08:31 AM
yeah....two players will make or break the season...lets see......Oline needs consistency, Dline has to show up, Eli has to keep the picks below 10, a pass catchingTE has to emerge, CBs???please....not as simple as Nicks and Tuck doing their job...Very true, but if they do play better those two guys could mean the difference between 9-7 with no post season and 10-6 and playing in the post season.

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 08:33 AM
Very true, but if they do play better those two guys could mean the difference between 9-7 with no post season and 10-6 and playing in the post season.

Think 12 - 4

Mercury
05-06-2013, 08:40 AM
If one play can determine our fate for the season, then there is as good a chance as any that Hakeem Nicks or Justin Tuck will make that play.

However, I don't believe it ever comes down to one play. Sure, one game can be the difference between being in the plays or not. And sure, when the game is on the line, one play may make the difference, win or lose. However, all the other plays in the game are what put the game in that do or die situation. If one of those plays went differently, the game may not be on the line in the first place. Every play matters. The play before determines the level of importance of the play that follows. It can bring further desperation or blessed relief.

GameTime
05-06-2013, 08:42 AM
Very true, but if they do play better those two guys could mean the difference between 9-7 with no post season and 10-6 and playing in the post season.
you could tag that on a several other players too......not just Nicks and Tuck.....
according to many here it was mostly Diehl's fault......

BigBlue1971
05-06-2013, 08:43 AM
it will take a lot more than Nicks and Tuck! Nicks needs to stay healthy to make a difference with the G-Men!

Tuck will never be the same on the d-line! unfortunately he is no spring chicken therefore he will not get back to his dominating days! but he can be a factor if hes consistent.

the team as a whole can help Nicks and Tuck by upping their game as well!

hoping everyone can contribute this season. essential for success.

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 08:43 AM
If one play can determine our fate for the season, then there is as good a chance as any that Hakeem Nicks or Justin Tuck will make that play.

However, I don't believe it ever comes down to one play. Sure, one game can be the difference between being in the plays or not. And sure, when the game is on the line, one play may make the difference, win or lose. However, all the other plays in the game are what put the game in that do or die situation. If one of those plays went differently, the game may not be on the line in the first place. Every play matters. The play before determines the level of importance of the play that follows. It can bring further desperation or blessed relief.

I have to be honest, I have a lot more confidence in Nicks than Tuck at this point.

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 08:43 AM
you could tag that on a several other players too......not just Nicks and Tuck.....Sure. You can also say that the player they need to I prove the most this year is Eli. A healthy team with a struggling Eli is going to be bad no matter what.

GameTime
05-06-2013, 08:45 AM
Sure. You can also say that the player they need to I prove the most this year is Eli. A healthy team with a struggling Eli is going to be bad no matter what.
yep....he is the "catalyst" for success. In the other thread about Eli being addicted to SBs...
I responded by saying I hope Eli gets addicted to NOT throwing too many picks....

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 08:45 AM
Sure. You can also say that the player they need to I prove the most this year is Eli. A healthy team with a struggling Eli is going to be bad no matter what.

Eli has to be more accurate and consistently so.

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 08:46 AM
yep....he is the "catalyst" for success. In the other thread about Eli being addicted to SBs...
I responded by saying I hope Eli gets addicted to NOT throwing too many picks....

Eli has gotten better when it comes to throwing the ball away or taking the sack, but he's still forcing balls that make mine shrivel

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 08:47 AM
yep....he is the "catalyst" for success. In the other thread about Eli being addicted to SBs...I responded by saying I hope Eli gets addicted to NOT throwing too many picks....It was posted somewhere that two years ago he worked with his receivers during the lock out and he probably had his best season. Last year he didn't. Looks like they had a little something down at Duke this year. Hopefully he rebounds.

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 08:48 AM
Eli has to be more accurate and consistently so.Don't see him having back to back bad seasons. Hope not anyway.

GameTime
05-06-2013, 08:51 AM
It was posted somewhere that two years ago he worked with his receivers during the lock out and he probably had his best season. Last year he didn't. Looks like they had a little something down at Duke this year. Hopefully he rebounds.
I know thw scheme the play on offense lends itself to a higher risk of picks due tot he nature of the WR and Eli having to see the same exact thing.
What I would like to see this season is higher % plays on 3rd and short or even like 3rd and 5. Get the freakin 1st down and start over.....

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 08:51 AM
Don't see him having back to back bad seasons. Hope not anyway.

I hope you're right

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 08:58 AM
On PAPER, they look like they can do great things. Very good QB, the OL actually played better last year than the year they won the Super Bowl, then they have a great WR group, along with some serious speed in the back field.like the TE and WR they signed a lot. Worried about the defense but they did make some moves. Hopefully they pan out and hopefully Webster plays a lot better.

SweetZombieJesus
05-06-2013, 09:05 AM
I agree with Nicks... but, it wasn't just Tuck that had difficulty on the D-line last year. JPP and Osi were not up to their 2011 form either. When you see that much drop-off in production among the entire DE group, it is wise to look at other potential causes. The main one I would look at is how offenses were negating the pass rush.

The DTs are the unsung heroes of our D-line. If they can't collapse or even maintain the pocket, or pass rushing DEs don't look so good. Thus all the off season activity at this spot.

EliDaMANning
05-06-2013, 09:19 AM
Eli has gotten better when it comes to throwing the ball away or taking the sack, but he's still forcing balls that make mine shrivelYeah it sucks when we have a QB who cannot afford to make a poor decision like every other QB to play the game because the team around him is bad.

Aaron Rodgers wins a NFCCG throwing more picks than TD. Tom Brady wins an AFCCG throwing 3 picks vs. the Chargers. If only the Giants defense can pick up that kind of slack once in a while instead of relying on him to have a perfect game every week.

Drez
05-06-2013, 09:41 AM
yeah....two players will make or break the season...
lets see......Oline needs consistency, Dline has to show up, Eli has to keep the picks below 10, a pass catchingTE has to emerge, CBs???

please....not as simple as Nicks and Tuck doing their job... Eli will probably never keep the picks under 10. It's just an amalgamation of factors that include his decision making (not wanting to give up on plays/trusting his arm and his receivers maybe a little too much, etc), the vertical nature of our passing game, and the complexity of the passing offense; all those things combine to make it more likely that Eli will throw closer to 14-16 interceptions a season (even if he's being reasonably careful with the ball). I think he needs to make sure his comp% is closer to 63%-65%, more so than keeping the picks under 10.

EliDaMANning
05-06-2013, 09:45 AM
Eli will probably never keep the picks under 10. It's just an amalgamation of factors that include his decision making (not wanting to give up on plays/trusting his arm and his receivers maybe a little too much, etc), the vertical nature of our passing game, and the complexity of the passing offense; all those things combine to make it more likely that Eli will throw closer to 14-16 interceptions a season (even if he's being reasonably careful with the ball). I think he needs to make sure his comp% is closer to 63%-65%, more so than keeping the picks under 10.The only way Eli throws less than 10 picks is if he gets Big Ben's playbook.

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 09:46 AM
Yeah it sucks when we have a QB who cannot afford to make a poor decision like every other QB to play the game because the team around him is bad.Aaron Rodgers wins a NFCCG throwing more picks than TD. Tom Brady wins an AFCCG throwing 3 picks vs. the Chargers. If only the Giants defense can pick up that kind of slack once in a while instead of relying on him to have a perfect game every week.Stop please. Eli did not have a good season.

EliDaMANning
05-06-2013, 09:52 AM
Stop please. Eli did not have a good season.LOL fair enough. That must explain why we didn't make the playoffs.

Rudyy
05-06-2013, 09:56 AM
LOL fair enough. That must explain why we didn't make the playoffs.Not the sole reason, but part of it.

Buddy333
05-06-2013, 09:56 AM
LOL fair enough. That must explain why we didn't make the playoffs.When a franchise QB does not have a good season then yes that is a very big part of it.

Flip Empty
05-06-2013, 09:59 AM
Don't see him having back to back bad seasons. Hope not anyway.
Seems to be how it goes recently;

2009 - good
2010 - bad
2011 - good
2012 - bad

Who said he was inconsistent?

GameTime
05-06-2013, 10:10 AM
Eli will probably never keep the picks under 10. It's just an amalgamation of factors that include his decision making (not wanting to give up on plays/trusting his arm and his receivers maybe a little too much, etc), the vertical nature of our passing game, and the complexity of the passing offense; all those things combine to make it more likely that Eli will throw closer to 14-16 interceptions a season (even if he's being reasonably careful with the ball). I think he needs to make sure his comp% is closer to 63%-65%, more so than keeping the picks under 10.
I get all that. When I said it would nice to keeps bhis picks down below 10 I was envsioning all the other parts of his game and the offense being better.
i.e., TDs, comp %, first downs, running game, etc....

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 10:47 AM
Yeah it sucks when we have a QB who cannot afford to make a poor decision like every other QB to play the game because the team around him is bad.

Aaron Rodgers wins a NFCCG throwing more picks than TD. Tom Brady wins an AFCCG throwing 3 picks vs. the Chargers. If only the Giants defense can pick up that kind of slack once in a while instead of relying on him to have a perfect game every week.

What is so wrong about wanting any player to improve his game in an area of weakness?

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 10:47 AM
Seems to be how it goes recently;

2009 - good
2010 - bad
2011 - good
2012 - bad

Who said he was inconsistent?

Pick me, Monte, pick me lol

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 10:48 AM
LOL fair enough. That must explain why we didn't make the playoffs.

We didn't make the playoffs because the team failed. Eli is part of the team.

Joe Morrison
05-06-2013, 12:30 PM
LOL fair enough. That must explain why we didn't make the playoffs.
Last in rushing, last in giving up rushing yards, pretty much tells the story.

Rudyy
05-06-2013, 12:38 PM
Eli cannot be exempt from team failures.

GameTime
05-06-2013, 01:06 PM
The only way Eli throws less than 10 picks is if he gets Big Ben's playbook.
wonder if BB's playbook has any plays in which he would ever throw lefty?

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 02:31 PM
Eli cannot be exempt from team failures.


Says you

VBGiantsFan
05-06-2013, 03:14 PM
Justin Tuck isn't returning to form. Kiwi will have permanently replaced him by week 3. Tuck may offer some value in the Nascar Package if he's moved inside since he'll be well rested riding the bench every game.

Nicks will be ok.

EliDaMANning
05-06-2013, 04:38 PM
wonder if BB's playbook has any plays in which he would ever throw lefty?Probably not, wouldn't want to give BB any head scratching plays. Can't have him put up numbers like he did vs. Seattle in his first SB.