PDA

View Full Version : Giants' Eli Manning Admits He's Addicted To Winning Super Bowls



Pages : [1] 2

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 01:46 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/05/new-york-giants-eli-manning-admits-hes-addicted-to-winning-super-bowls/

Excerpt: "Rare is the moment you see anything other than a stoic Eli Manning (http://www.giants101.com/tag/eli-manning/). In fact, you can probably count on your hands how many times you've seen him show any emotion. But in arecent interview with Brandon Steiner (http://brandonsteiner.com/blog/eli-manning-podcast/), the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Giants quarterback opened up and shared some uncharacteristic thoughts. Included? His addiction … to winning Super Bowls.


“That’s the thing about championships – once you experience one or two, you never get satisfied,” Manning said. “It’s a feeling you want again. It’s that high. I’ve never done drugs, but that’s what it must feel like. It’s a feeling you want again. Makes you work through the whole off-season and make that total commitment.”


At 32 years of age and after nine seasons in the NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/), Manning has already won two Lombardi Trophies and the MVP award that accompanies them. But that's not enough for the youngest Manning, who has his sights set on several more." Read more...

Diamondring
05-05-2013, 01:52 PM
His play shows that he tried his best but it wasn't god enough.

Harooni
05-05-2013, 01:55 PM
he never inhaled

BigBlue1971
05-05-2013, 02:05 PM
thats why Eli will go down as the greatest NY Giants qb!

2 more sbs would be ideal for him.....and us!

JB456
05-05-2013, 02:13 PM
His play shows that he tried his best but it wasn't god enough.
Agreed. The eli manning experiment ended in complete failure, let the Nassib era bevin as I see him as someone who doesn't buckle under the pressure. ..

Mercury
05-05-2013, 02:15 PM
They have a 12 step program for that. If I'm not mistaken, step nine is to join the Philadelphia Eagles.

Harooni
05-05-2013, 02:17 PM
Agreed. The eli manning experiment ended in complete failure, let the Nassib era bevin as I see him as someone who doesn't buckle under the pressure. .. lol

GiantRoc
05-05-2013, 02:20 PM
Agreed. The eli manning experiment ended in complete failure, let the Nassib era bevin as I see him as someone who doesn't buckle under the pressure. ..

HAHAHA Good one, but you are supposed to use red ink...

I'd love to see his habit get re-upped. Let him stay hooked for another 6 - 8 years. Then do his rehab in Canton Ohio.

Rudyy
05-05-2013, 02:30 PM
I'm addicted to something too.....Victor's salsa.

Carter.525
05-05-2013, 02:33 PM
I'm addicted to something too.....Victor's salsa.

And the van..?

Rudyy
05-05-2013, 03:06 PM
And the van..?Yeah..I love that van..good times in it, if you know what I mean......

Carter.525
05-05-2013, 03:21 PM
Yeah..I love that van..good times in it, if you know what I mean......

http://rlv.zcache.com/if_the_vans_a_rockin_dont_come_a_knockin_bumper_st icker-p128207027515451369trl0_400.jpg

P_Simms_#11
05-05-2013, 05:28 PM
I'm addicted to something too.....Victor's salsa.

I liked it at first too, but I think the salsa dance is getting old.

Rudyy
05-05-2013, 05:31 PM
I liked it at first too, but I think the salsa dance is getting old.Not for me. I couldn't careless.

FBomb
05-05-2013, 05:48 PM
Wow!! I could have just as easily said.....

"“That’s the thing about drugs– once you experience one or two, you never get satisfied,” Manning said. “It’s a feeling you want again. It’s that high. I’ve never won a Super Bowl, but that’s what it must feel like. It’s a feeling you want again. Makes you work through the whole off-season and make that total commitment.”

egyptian420
05-05-2013, 05:52 PM
Probably the only thing I'm fine with him being addicted to.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 06:00 PM
I'm addicted to something too.....Victor's salsa.

What brand chips?

Morehead State
05-05-2013, 06:02 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/05/new-york-giants-eli-manning-admits-hes-addicted-to-winning-super-bowls/

Excerpt: "Rare is the moment you see anything other than a stoic Eli Manning (http://www.giants101.com/tag/eli-manning/). In fact, you can probably count on your hands how many times you've seen him show any emotion. But in arecent interview with Brandon Steiner (http://brandonsteiner.com/blog/eli-manning-podcast/), the New York (http://www.giants101.com/tag/new-york/) Giants quarterback opened up and shared some uncharacteristic thoughts. Included? His addiction Ö to winning Super Bowls.


ďThatís the thing about championships Ė once you experience one or two, you never get satisfied,Ē Manning said. ďItís a feeling you want again. Itís that high. Iíve never done drugs, but thatís what it must feel like. Itís a feeling you want again. Makes you work through the whole off-season and make that total commitment.Ē


At 32 years of age and after nine seasons in the NFL (http://www.giants101.com/tag/nfl/), Manning has already won two Lombardi Trophies and the MVP award that accompanies them. But that's not enough for the youngest Manning, who has his sights set on several more." Read more...

Me too!

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 06:03 PM
Me too!

It would be extremely gratifying to win the next Super Bowl at MetLife.

P_Simms_#11
05-05-2013, 06:17 PM
It would be extremely gratifying to win the next Super Bowl at MetLife.

Against which team?

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 06:18 PM
Against which team?

Denver

Carter.525
05-05-2013, 06:18 PM
Against which team?

Broncos.. Manning Bowl

P_Simms_#11
05-05-2013, 06:20 PM
Denver

We already beat them. ;)

Rudyy
05-05-2013, 06:20 PM
What brand chips?Tostitos. Always.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 06:25 PM
We already beat them. ;)

Something tells me this time would be a tad more interesting

P_Simms_#11
05-05-2013, 06:31 PM
Something tells me this time would be a tad more interesting

True. I think hearing fans of other teams complain that it was all planned by the league would be interesting too.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 06:33 PM
True. I think hearing fans of other teams complain that it was all planned by the league would be interesting too.

Conspiracies abound lol

P_Simms_#11
05-05-2013, 06:36 PM
Conspiracies abound lol

Hopefully it will all come to pass.

RoanokeFan
05-05-2013, 06:38 PM
Hopefully it will all come to pass.

We need to do our part, Peyton and Co. will do theirs

P_Simms_#11
05-05-2013, 06:41 PM
We need to do our part, Peyton and Co. will do theirs

+100

TheBookOfEli
05-05-2013, 06:44 PM
thats why Eli will go down as the greatest NY Giants qb!

2 more sbs would be ideal for him.....and us!

Sorry BB1971, Eli is already the best QB in Giants history.

Broadway Blue
05-05-2013, 07:00 PM
Sorry BB1971, Eli is already the best QB in Giants history.

Eli is already a lock in going to the Hall of Fame and winning another Super Bowl would be icing on the cake

Roosevelt
05-05-2013, 08:10 PM
I liked it at first too, but I think the salsa dance is getting old.

The more he salsas the better as far as I'm concerned.

GiantsRevival2
05-05-2013, 08:10 PM
he never inhaled

Don't worry I'm sure Nassib will get addicted to something. Lets all hope its Super Bowls!

Roosevelt
05-05-2013, 08:11 PM
Sorry BB1971, Eli is already the best QB in Giants history.

Here we go again.

Bing Crosby
05-05-2013, 08:55 PM
I'm up for two or three more SBs!! Make it happen Eli. We believe!

Moecoastie77
05-05-2013, 09:48 PM
after reading this article, I just found yet another excuse to rewatch some recorded games as I wait for the upcoming season. I want to see if I see anyone talking in the huddle :p Going to find a game with Shockey, Im sure I will find him talking.

giantsfan420
05-05-2013, 09:52 PM
sour d is my vice.

pretty awesome quotes from eli too

Dorothy
05-05-2013, 10:00 PM
Against which team?

ravens

Harooni
05-05-2013, 11:20 PM
Eli is already a lock in going to the Hall of Fame and winning another Super Bowl would be icing on the cake i dont know about lock. you have to pretty much be the best at your position during your time. Eli has never even been the best QB in any given year, 0 league MVP's. 2 sb's mvps may carry some weight but its very hard to get in.

darrin99
05-05-2013, 11:27 PM
2 SB MVP's and assuming every NY Giants passing record should definitely get him in. If he stays healthy and has a few more typical Eli years, he should be in the top 10 in a few all-time records.

Rudyy
05-05-2013, 11:31 PM
Eli debate coming up

Harooni
05-05-2013, 11:34 PM
2 SB MVP's and assuming every NY Giants passing record should definitely get him in. If he stays healthy and has a few more typical Eli years, he should be in the top 10 in a few all-time records.

Warner and Simms beg to differ, but what do they know they only won sb's at that position and played for the org.

darrin99
05-05-2013, 11:38 PM
I respect Simms' opinion, but Warner is still bitter.

Edit: For the record, I do not think Eli is a HOF'er if his career ended today. I think when his career ends in 5 years or so, and he has 45,000+ passing yards and 300+ TD's to go along with his SB MVP's, he's a lock to get in.

Harooni
05-06-2013, 01:12 AM
I respect Simms' opinion, but Warner is still bitter.

Edit: For the record, I do not think Eli is a HOF'er if his career ended today. I think when his career ends in 5 years or so, and he has 45,000+ passing yards and 300+ TD's to go along with his SB MVP's, he's a lock to get in. i hear you , however so many qb's will be throwing 4-5k yards a season now that for last few years the rules have changed that favor the passing game.

Bing Crosby
05-06-2013, 01:21 AM
Oh look a thread that's suppose to get us excited about this year, and how serious the leader of our team wants to win another SB!

Oh wait it's about Eli. If only it had been Coughlin then we could all talk about how excited we are about the upcoming season. Instead let's have the same damn Eli thread we've had 800 times. Loading Eli thread number 456.....should Eli be in the hall of fame.......

http://30forchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/fred+flintstone-150x150.jpg

Antwuan
05-06-2013, 02:36 AM
Love It!

Keep It Up Eli, There Will Be More Superbowls In The Eli Manning/Tom Coughlin Era (Hopefully).

IamGiantsfan
05-06-2013, 05:03 AM
'another is Eli a HOF th r ead change
?

NWKEffectElement
05-06-2013, 06:07 AM
It would be extremely gratifying to win the next Super Bowl at MetLife.

I will go as far as to say if we win the next one with home field clinched it would care if we win another one in my lifetime.

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 06:47 AM
I will go as far as to say if we win the next one with home field clinched it would care if we win another one in my lifetime.

Just imagine the hype if it were to come to pass.

GameTime
05-06-2013, 08:33 AM
hope Eli gets addicted to not throwing picks.....
that would be nice.....

:popcorn:

SweetZombieJesus
05-06-2013, 09:12 AM
thats why Eli will go down as the greatest NY Giants qb!

2 more sbs would be ideal for him.....and us!

3, let's shut up the Steeler fans and be the first to 7. ;)

Nobody's ever hosted a SB in their own stadium, the Giants have never gone back-to-back, lots of firsts still remain to be broken.

SweetZombieJesus
05-06-2013, 09:18 AM
i dont know about lock. you have to pretty much be the best at your position during your time. Eli has never even been the best QB in any given year, 0 league MVP's. 2 sb's mvps may carry some weight but its very hard to get in.

Multiple SB MVPs:

Joe Montana (Hall of Fame 2000)
Bart Starr (Hall of Fame 1977)
Terry Bradshaw (Hall of Fame 1989)
Tom Brady (Face it, lock)
Eli Manning

Bradshaw doesn't meet the "best at position" test either. Eli's in.

Bradshaw was MVP and all-pro in 1978 but Eli's got a bunch of awards too. He's already tied Bradshaw in Pro Bowl appearances and SB MVPs.

Morehead State
05-06-2013, 06:46 PM
Multiple SB MVPs:

Joe Montana (Hall of Fame 2000)
Bart Starr (Hall of Fame 1977)
Terry Bradshaw (Hall of Fame 1989)
Tom Brady (Face it, lock)
Eli Manning

Bradshaw doesn't meet the "best at position" test either. Eli's in.

Bradshaw was MVP and all-pro in 1978 but Eli's got a bunch of awards too. He's already tied Bradshaw in Pro Bowl appearances and SB MVPs.
Well that's our boy. When he's good, he's great.
When he's bad, he looks like he never played QB before.
Its the Eli paradox.
Personally, I take the bad with the good. I may throw something at the TV....but I still take it.

ashleymarie
05-06-2013, 06:57 PM
Not for me. I couldn't careless.

Me either. Because with every dance comes a touchdown.

FBomb
05-06-2013, 07:12 PM
Well that's our boy. When he's good, he's great.
When he's bad, he looks like he never played QB before.
Its the Eli paradox.
Personally, I take the bad with the good. I may throw something at the TV....but I still take it.

But not without a fight, :)

Rudyy
05-06-2013, 07:16 PM
Me either. Because with every dance comes a touchdown.+1 Exactly.

If you're more concerned over a dance than a touchdown, you need to set your priorities straight.

Morehead State
05-06-2013, 07:23 PM
But not without a fight, :)
Not at all.
The big difference with me and some others is that I accept what i see. I don't quote obscure stats like first quarter yards in SB's in southern cities with more than 6 letters in the name. (that is an exaggeration of course) I just know what I see.
He's a guy capable of moments of greatness and moments of pure crap.
The good thing about that is that while there is a lot of frustration, there has also been glory. And that makes up for the nonsense like left handed passes into triple coverage and fall down throws into the hands of D linemen.

I get Eli and accept it. But I don't delude myself into thinking he's something he's not.

FBomb
05-06-2013, 07:27 PM
Right now....Eli is not a lock for the HOF, but he can certainly be a part of the conversation. Not only does he have 2 SB MVP's (let's not kid ourselves...that's huge!!), but the way we won them!! Trailing by less than a touchdown during the last possession of the game...Eli drives them down the field and we win....TWICE!! Not only that....both drives had a pass play that will be talked about for generations.....with one possibly being the greatest play in SB history!! That's sports movie **** right there!!! Somebody needs to get that movie made!!

**** like that goes a long way!! It's not just a stat award.....it's a bit of a popularity contest too.

He's close.....one more seals it. First ballet.

Rudyy
05-06-2013, 07:27 PM
People need to stop comparing him to other quarterbacks. I am guilty of this myself.
I don't really care much for his stats to be honest, he is a great quarterback and he is a proven winner.

Morehead State
05-06-2013, 07:30 PM
Right now....Eli is not a lock for the HOF, but he can certainly be a part of the conversation. Not only does he have 2 SB MVP's (let's not kid ourselves...that's huge!!), but the way we won them!! Trailing by less than a touchdown during the last possession of the game...Eli drives them down the field and we win....TWICE!! Not only that....both drives had a pass play that will be talked about for generations.....with one possibly being the greatest play in SB history!! That's sports movie **** right there!!! Somebody needs to get that movie made!!

**** like that goes a long way!! It's not just a stat award.....it's a bit of a popularity contest too.

He's close.....one more seals it. First ballet.

I just don't care about things like the Hall Of Fame. What I care about is that he plays well this season and we win a lot of games. I honestly am not bothered that Phil isn't there. What I care about is my player's impact on my team.
I just don't care about the individual accolades. Its football....the ultimate team game.

bhz12
05-06-2013, 07:31 PM
They have a 12 step program for that. If I'm not mistaken, step nine is to join the Philadelphia Eagles.
LMFAO! Underrated post is underrated!

B&RWarrior
05-06-2013, 07:33 PM
His play shows that he tried his best but it wasn't god enough.

Are you saying last year he looked his best?

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 07:35 PM
Are you saying last year he looked his best?

Man, I sure hope not

Morehead State
05-06-2013, 07:38 PM
Man, I sure hope not
What bugs me about last year is that some of that "Old Eli" crept back into his game. And I really thought that was dead and gone after 2011.

RoanokeFan
05-06-2013, 07:42 PM
What bugs me about last year is that some of that "Old Eli" crept back into his game. And I really thought that was dead and gone after 2011.

Just when you thought he had turned the decision corner....... I honestly believe he's still trying to force things to happen when he should just trust in his ability to come back in the next series and get it done.

ashleymarie
05-06-2013, 07:42 PM
What bugs me about last year is that some of that "Old Eli" crept back into his game. And I really thought that was dead and gone after 2011.

Gotta agree with this.

B&RWarrior
05-06-2013, 07:53 PM
What bugs me about last year is that some of that "Old Eli" crept back into his game. And I really thought that was dead and gone after 2011.

I'm giving the team a pass for last year. After we won I new we were going to party like nobody's business. I expected some players to be off there game last year. This year I expect to see a return to form for Eli, C-Web, and JPP among others.

FBomb
05-06-2013, 08:07 PM
I just don't care about things like the Hall Of Fame. What I care about is that he plays well this season and we win a lot of games. I honestly am not bothered that Phil isn't there. What I care about is my player's impact on my team.
I just don't care about the individual accolades. Its football....the ultimate team game.

NO...me either. I care about one thing...winning.. The rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.

Harooni
05-06-2013, 08:23 PM
hope Eli gets addicted to not throwing picks.....
that would be nice.....

:popcorn:

lol

Flip Empty
05-06-2013, 08:28 PM
NO...me either. I care about one thing...winning.. The rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.
Like Timmy Tebow?

FBomb
05-06-2013, 09:11 PM
Like Timmy Tebow?

Hey....he's better than Peyton.

JsBigBlue
05-06-2013, 09:58 PM
Hey....he's better than Peyton. Shouldn't that be in red

Diamondring
05-06-2013, 10:24 PM
Shouldn't that be in redWhy, for the first time, I got it.

Delicreep
05-06-2013, 10:28 PM
i dont know about lock. you have to pretty much be the best at your position during your time. Eli has never even been the best QB in any given year, 0 league MVP's. 2 sb's mvps may carry some weight but its very hard to get in.

What cracks me up about your many, many "you need to be ..." post is that just looking at the HOF members pretty much proves you wrong.

Unless you are somehow going to choke out that Aikman was the best at his position.
Or Kelly's got an MVP

Here's one for you: name anyone who has two SB MVP's who isn't in the HOF.

I'll wait while you check

BigBlueAllDay
05-06-2013, 11:19 PM
Wanting to win more Superbowls is a good addiction to have.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 05:32 AM
Wanting to win more Superbowls is a good addiction to have.

That's because we all are addicted lol

nygfanmaybe
05-07-2013, 06:40 AM
What cracks me up about your many, many "you need to be ..." post is that just looking at the HOF members pretty much proves you wrong.

Unless you are somehow going to choke out that Aikman was the best at his position.
Or Kelly's got an MVP

Here's one for you: name anyone who has two SB MVP's who isn't in the HOF.

I'll wait while you check

Eli is more of a lock than his big brother at this point in time. There are some things statistically that make Peyton look better, but the things that Eli hasn't done...yet...are the things that separate them. A couple...off the top of my head...are 1) not throwing a game-losing pick in the SB, and 2) not bowing down to the greatness of Tom Brady. Brady seems to own Peyton but, at this point in history, Eli seems to own Brady.


...and, just to add to Eli's resume...he has done everything in a pressure-cooker market that will run you out of town if you don't cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze. What Peyton has done all happened in a smaller, non-conspicuous market. JMO, though.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 07:48 AM
What cracks me up about your many, many "you need to be ..." post is that just looking at the HOF members pretty much proves you wrong.

Unless you are somehow going to choke out that Aikman was the best at his position.
Or Kelly's got an MVP

Here's one for you: name anyone who has two SB MVP's who isn't in the HOF.

I'll wait while you check

I told you many times, that that was a long time ago, the nfl is very different now. you got guys like matt stafford throwing 5000 yards now. what if brees rodgers or flacco win another sb. and you have Big Ben that won 2 sb's, and you got peyton and brady you are not going to see 5-6 qb's inducted in the HOF in a short time period. you are smart enough to know that even Parcells wasnt a lock.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 07:57 AM
How many guys get into the hall of game every year?

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 08:06 AM
Are you saying last year he looked his best?Well Nicks was not the same after being out so I assume that Eli tried his best since he still almost had close to 4 thousand yards with double digit tds and 15 ints.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 08:08 AM
How many guys get into the hall of game every year?

I believe seven, two of whom are in the senior category. I should be getting the senior nod soon :)

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 08:10 AM
NO...me either. I care about one thing...winning.. The rest is for stat *****s and fantasy geeks.Sports is about stats. Rodgers is good cause of the production he brings wich is stats..

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 08:12 AM
Sports is about stats. Rodgers is good cause of the production he brings wich is stats..

Individual stats only matter in contract negotiations and HOF consideration. The only stats fans should be concerned with are wins and losses.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 08:16 AM
Sports is about stats. Rodgers is good cause of the production he brings wich is stats.. what i dont get is many say Eli isnt going to turn into Rodgers, but then how in the heck is he a HOF lock?

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 08:17 AM
i hear you , however so many qb's will be throwing 4-5k yards a season now that for last few years the rules have changed that favor the passing game.IIt has more to due to the nature of the game than the rule change.

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 08:20 AM
Well Nicks was not the same after being out so I assume that Eli tried his best since he still almost had close to 4 thousand yards with double digit tds and 15 ints.
Interestingly enough, Eli, Rivers and Ben all threw 26 touchdowns. Eli and Rivers threw 15 INTs apiece, while Ben threw 8.

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 08:20 AM
what i dont get is many say Eli isnt going to turn into Rodgers, but then how in the heck is he a HOF lock?Well not all people are good at estimating things. Yet I say with some others that if Eli wins another Superbowl in good fashion, he should get in after some years.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 08:25 AM
Well Nicks was not the same after being out so I assume that Eli tried his best since he still almost had close to 4 thousand yards with double digit tds and 15 ints.
trying your best and playing your best (based on previous performances) are two different things. Eli had a decent season. Nothing spectacular. There were multiple reason why the offense struggled. For that matter the whole team struggled.....

GameTime
05-07-2013, 08:28 AM
what i dont get is many say Eli isnt going to turn into Rodgers, but then how in the heck is he a HOF lock?
I always bring this up and I dont care that it was back in the day..
Namath is in with 50 more picks then TDs for his career......how many other QBs are in the HOF with that stat.?????
Eli will be in the HOF even if he doesnt win another SB

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 09:07 AM
trying your best and playing your best (based on previous performances) are two different things. Eli had a decent season. Nothing spectacular. There were multiple reason why the offense struggled. For that matter the whole team struggled.....Since there are multiple reasons why the team struggled, then the Giants should just give Cruz 6 mil a year with a certain amount guaranteed then so they can get other talents to fix the problem..

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 09:13 AM
Since there are multiple reasons why the team struggled, then the Giants should just give Cruz 6 mil a year with a certain amount guaranteed then so they can get other talents to fix the problem..

They are about done fixing the problem as much as they can. We've had the draft, we have signed some FAs and may even sign one or two more. It's what we have always done and it has worked pretty well.

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 09:49 AM
They are about done fixing the problem as much as they can. We've had the draft, we have signed some FAs and may even sign one or two more. It's what we have always done and it has worked pretty well.I hope they find a way so our defense can score or get the ball back after Eli makes one of his big mistakes.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 09:56 AM
I hope they find a way so our defense can score or get the ball back after Eli makes one of his big mistakes.

Every player makes mistakes. The thing to watch is the balance between their upside and downside. Eli is very much in positive territory.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 10:33 AM
I always bring this up and I dont care that it was back in the day..
Namath is in with 50 more picks then TDs for his career......how many other QBs are in the HOF with that stat.?????
Eli will be in the HOF even if he doesnt win another SB

it does matter that it was back in the day ,you will see many QB's going foward putting up nice stats and winning SB's they dont just jam everyone in. in those days QB's would get hammered and rarely stay uninjured. the NFL is way different now and into the future Godell will stop QB sacks one day, lol

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 10:44 AM
it does matter that it was back in the day ,you will see many QB's going foward putting up nice stats and winning SB's they dont just jam everyone in. in those days QB's would get hammered and rarely stay uninjured. the NFL is way different now and into the future Godell will stop QB sacks one day, lol
The reality is that with today's sports writers, Eli will probably get in the Hall. Simply because he won 2 SB's. And in today's world, no one cares how good you are, they just count championships. As if its an individual sport.
These are the same sports writers who selected a QB as SB MVP in 2008, in a game where our defense had an historic performance. Then they picked a WR in the next SB when the QB was clearly the best player on the field.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 11:05 AM
He will get in the HOF but would he be a first ballot HOFer if Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, and Brees where all up for the HOF at the same time?

gumby74
05-07-2013, 11:09 AM
The reality is that with today's sports writers, Eli will probably get in the Hall. Simply because he won 2 SB's. And in today's world, no one cares how good you are, they just count championships. As if its an individual sport.
These are the same sports writers who selected a QB as SB MVP in 2008, in a game where our defense had an historic performance. Then they picked a WR in the next SB when the QB was clearly the best player on the field.

Eli will definitely get into the HoF. However, most of those QBs already selected were pretty much unanimously considered top tier QBs in their time. The amount of doubt surrounding Eli, while having those championships is really unheard of. If you ask different NFL analysts, Eli would rank anywhere from top 10 top 5. Thus, imo Eli would be the exception, not the rule when it comes to needing to be a super productive QB and making it to the HoF.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:20 AM
The reality is that with today's sports writers, Eli will probably get in the Hall. Simply because he won 2 SB's. And in today's world, no one cares how good you are, they just count championships. As if its an individual sport.
These are the same sports writers who selected a QB as SB MVP in 2008, in a game where our defense had an historic performance. Then they picked a WR in the next SB when the QB was clearly the best player on the field. well said, its defiantly a politics and popularity game. You throw 1 TD in the SB and get MVP when you have that famous last name its an edge. but i did think Eli at least deserved consideration.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:23 AM
it does matter that it was back in the day ,you will see many QB's going foward putting up nice stats and winning SB's they dont just jam everyone in. in those days QB's would get hammered and rarely stay uninjured. the NFL is way different now and into the future Godell will stop QB sacks one day, lol
OK...from QBs back then which are in the HOF with 50 more picks than TDs????

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:23 AM
He will get in the HOF but would he be a first ballot HOFer if Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, and Brees where all up for the HOF at the same time? probably not as it stands right now. he will need a League MVP or another SB. IMO. I dont know how you are a HOF lock with people questioning your consistency and lack of a proper QB slide. seems so odd to me but as i said sb's and last name with voters will carry weight

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Every player makes mistakes. The thing to watch is the balance between their upside and downside. Eli is very much in positive territory.Yet the best makes the less mistakes while putting up good production. It seems Eli has a lot of mistakes with the good.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:26 AM
The reality is that with today's sports writers, Eli will probably get in the Hall. Simply because he won 2 SB's. And in today's world, no one cares how good you are, they just count championships. As if its an individual sport.
These are the same sports writers who selected a QB as SB MVP in 2008, in a game where our defense had an historic performance. Then they picked a WR in the next SB when the QB was clearly the best player on the field.

"Simply"....ha...
ask any NFL player how "simple" it is to get to the SB let alone win ONE....no less two.....

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:26 AM
OK...from QBs back then which are in the HOF with 50 more picks than TDs???? you keep missing the point, even bradshaw had so so stats. its a different ERA and QB's are coming out more and more athletic. as i said they arent going to be putting 5-8 QB's in the HOF in the same time period. its much harder to get in than people realize. many greats weren't first ballot.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 11:26 AM
Eli deserved those MVP's as he is part of history with the greatest play ever in the game and probably another top 5 play in Super Bowl history.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:27 AM
To me the test for a QB and the HOF is to consider if the player is a HOF'r without any SB wins.
I personally don't think Troy Aikman was that great a QB. He was put in the perfect situation and had to suck not to win SB's.

Quite honestly, if Tyree doesn't latch the ball to his helmet and Welker catches an easy ball, Eli isn't close. He's a very good QB, who definitely made plays when he had to. But he's just not a great QB. To many ups and downs.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Eli deserved those MVP's as he is part of history with the greatest play ever in the game and probably another top 5 play in Super Bowl history. true but his first 3 quarters of both games are less than MVP like.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:27 AM
you keep missing the point, even bradshaw had so so stats. its a different ERA and QB's are coming out more and more athletic. as i said they arent going to be putting 58 QB's in the HOF in the same time period. its much harder to get in than people realize. many greats weren't first ballot.
I am not missing the point at all.....
I clearly said what QB back in the day...meaning Namath's era that ahd 50 more picks than TDs and is in the HOF...
Bradshaw was part of 4 SBs......not even a close comparrison at all...

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:29 AM
"Simply"....ha...
ask any NFL player how "simple" it is to get to the SB let alone win ONE....no less two.....
No I agree that its a great accomplishment. But its a TEAM accomplishment.
That's what some here don't get.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:29 AM
To me the test for a QB and the HOF is to consider if the player is a HOF'r without any SB wins.
I personally don't think Troy Aikman was that great a QB. He was put in the perfect situation and had to suck not to win SB's.

Quite honestly, if Tyree doesn't latch the ball to his helmet and Welker catches an easy ball, Eli isn't close. He's a very good QB, who definitely made plays when he had to. But he's just not a great QB. To many ups and downs.
"quite honestly" imaginary scenarios dont count....
if Chase doesnt pick the ball
if the GInats D doesnt kick Brady's *** in 07.
if if if if if...all BS

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:29 AM
I am not missing the point at all.....
I clearly said what QB back in the day...meaning Namath's era that ahd 50 more picks than TDs and is in the HOF...
Bradshaw was part of 4 SBs......not even a close comparrison at all...
Namath was truly great. One of the greatest pure passers in history.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 11:29 AM
true but his first 3 quarters of both games are less than MVP like.It's not how you start, it's how you finish.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
we dont hold brady under 18 points it doesnt happen. So that is the main reason we won, the offense did very little the first 3 quarters of play

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:30 AM
Namath was truly great. One of the greatest pure passers in history.

ehh...he was very good and hyped beyond belief....
50 ore picks than TDs is till ****ty...
he "purely" passed to the other team more thean his own....

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:31 AM
we dont hold brady under 18 points it doesnt happen. So that is the main reason we won, the offense did very little the first 3 quarters of play
if I get the game of football the defense is part of the team right???
team effort....If the offense doesnt score more then 18 they dont win....right???

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:31 AM
It's not how you start, it's how you finish. true but sometimes like last season it puts you in a hole kicking fg'sd and 3 andouts.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 11:33 AM
true but sometimes like last season it puts you in a hole kicking fg'sd and 3 andouts.Well that is a totally different subject matter.

darrin99
05-07-2013, 11:33 AM
ehh...he was very good and hyped beyond belief....
50 more picks than TDs is till ****ty...
he "purely" passed to the other team more thean his own....

He only had a 50% completion percentage too.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:34 AM
"quite honestly" imaginary scenarios dont count....
if Chase doesnt pick the ball
if the GInats D doesnt kick Brady's *** in 07.
if if if if if...all BS
But that's my point. Brady won 3 SB's and they were all close. he could have just as easily lost those games.
So the question to me is...Is Tom Brady a Hall of Famer if the balls bounced differently and he had no SB wins?
Is Peyton a HOF'r if Bob Sanders gets hurt as he often did and the Colts didn't win a defensive struggle with Baltimore?

To me we put too much of an emphasis on championships when we rate individual players, as if they are individual accomplishments. They are TEAM accomplishments.
Dan Marino was the best QB I ever saw. You put him in Dallas in the 90's and 3 SB's would have just been the start.

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 11:34 AM
we dont hold brady under 18 points it doesnt happen. So that is the main reason we won, the offense did very little the first 3 quarters of playWhat point you are making with what you have said?

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:35 AM
ehh...he was very good and hyped beyond belief....
50 ore picks than TDs is till ****ty...
he "purely" passed to the other team more thean his own....

i got a stat for you, the giants were 9-0 last season when scoring at least 22 points. if the offense as a whole can step it up the D wont look so bad.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:36 AM
ehh...he was very good and hyped beyond belief....
50 ore picks than TDs is till ****ty...
he "purely" passed to the other team more thean his own....
In my view, if anything he was underrated.
People don't realize that the kid could barely walk and was one of the toughest QB's ever to suit up. All the "hype" distracted some from that fact.
So many fans don't realize what he had to overcome to play the way he did.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:36 AM
But that's my point. Brady won 3 SB's and they were all close. he could have just as easily lost those games.
So the question to me is...Is Tom Brady a Hall of Famer if the balls bounced differently and he had no SB wins?
Is Peyton a HOF'r if Bob Sanders gets hurt as he often did and the Colts didn't win a defensive struggle with Baltimore?

To we put too much of an emphasis on championships when we rate individual players, as if they are individual accomplishments. They are TEAM accomplishments.
Dan Marino was the best QB I ever saw. You put him in Dallas in the 90's and 3 SB's would have just been the start.

Brady is an all time great QB.....I cant sit here and pick apart each game and wonder what "may" have happened.
What DID happen is actually what happened. Yoiu cant change that no matter how much you want to twist a story to say if if if if.
Marino was one of the best....he showed it most games. I dont disagree at all......but Championships count....especially with QBs.......they just do and should

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 11:37 AM
i got a stat for you, the giants were 9-0 last season when scoring at least 22 points. if the offense as a whole can step it up the D wont look so bad.Regardless of how well our offense plays, our defense shouldn't be as abysmal as it was.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:40 AM
Regardless of how well our offense plays, our defense shouldn't be as abysmal as it was. well they have ther issues but when you break it down , you can see turnovers and 3 and outs where making the D look worse than they were and also puts them in a bad spot early and tires them out for the 4th quarter.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:40 AM
In my view, if anything he was underrated.
People don't realize that the kid could barely walk and was one of the toughest QB's ever to suit up. All the "hype" distracted some from that fact.
So many fans don't realize what he had to overcome to play the way he did.
Underrated??? he is in the HOF with crappy stats and he is underrated??!!!!
He was tough, he was of a new passing era, he was hyped and over hyped, he wore panty hose on TV, he wore fur coats, he was Broadway Joe, he was confident and ****y, he played in NY, he was part of a team that won a huge SB, he made a gaurantee......all of those reason are why he got in the HOF with the career stats he had....

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 11:41 AM
Hey....he's better than Peyton.

I never stated that he was but you keep alluding that I did.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:42 AM
i got a stat for you, the giants were 9-0 last season when scoring at least 22 points. if the offense as a whole can step it up the D wont look so bad.
I h ave no problem with offense scoring more then 22 points a game. It wont happen but it would be nice.
How about when the offense cant score more then 22 the D holds the other team back a little bit....
the whole team was misearble average last year....offense and defense

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 11:48 AM
I always bring this up and I dont care that it was back in the day..
Namath is in with 50 more picks then TDs for his career......how many other QBs are in the HOF with that stat.?????
Eli will be in the HOF even if he doesnt win another SB

Joe Namath is in primarily because he gave AFC legitimacy by guaranteeing the SuperBowl win and then leading the NY Jets to that title. Watching the old films of Joe Namath, one has to only wonder at what this guy would've accomplished if he didn't get hurt or basically if sports medicine wasn't so awful back then. I have seen the films of him and I have to say those older guys are right, the guy was a beautiful pure passer and just exuded talent.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 11:48 AM
well they have ther issues but when you break it down , you can see turnovers and 3 and outs where making the D look worse than they were and also puts them in a bad spot early and tires them out for the 4th quarter.So the offense goin 3 and out made our defense miss tackles and get burned in the middle? It's funny..as bad as our offense was, we put up franchise highs in points..while the defense put up franchise lows..

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:49 AM
I h ave no problem with offense scoring more then 22 points a game. It wont happen but it would be nice.
How about when the offense cant score more then 22 the D holds the other team back a little bit....
the whole team was misearble average last year....offense and defense i agree with you there. the Defense at least had multiple injuries and no starting lb;s really.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:50 AM
So the offense goin 3 and out made our defense miss tackles and get burned in the middle? It's funny..as bad as our offense was, we put up franchise highs in points..while the defense put up franchise lows.. no but when you stall in the other teams terroritory or turn the ball over. the Defense gets charged with those points givin up also even if they hold to a FG.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:50 AM
Brady is an all time great QB.....I cant sit here and pick apart each game and wonder what "may" have happened.
What DID happen is actually what happened. Yoiu cant change that no matter how much you want to twist a story to say if if if if.
Marino was one of the best....he showed it most games. I dont disagree at all......but Championships count....especially with QBs.......they just do and should
The HOF is supposed to be about individual greatness. The game is about team performance.
Its a contradiction.
Yes...what happened is definitely what happened. But when considering a players greatness, you have to ask why and how it happened.
What bugs me is so many fans care about this individual stuff in a team game. During a players career, it has to be about his contribution to his team.
There is plenty of time to consider the other when careers are over. But this "if he wins another SB" or "if he has 5 more years of this many yards" ..."he's in the Hall" drives me friggin nuts.

What I want now is to win football games. And I don't give a **** who plays great to make it happen.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 11:51 AM
no but when you stall in the other teams terroritory or turn the ball over. the Defense gets charged with those points givin up also even if they hold to a FG.Is it the offenses fault when the defense is on the field first and they give up a big play?

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:52 AM
i agree with you there. the Defense at least had multiple injuries and no starting lb;s really.
Nicks, Beatty, Locklear, Baas, Snee, Bradshaw, Brown, the O had its share too

GameTime
05-07-2013, 11:56 AM
The HOF is supposed to be about individual greatness. The game is about team performance.
Its a contradiction.
Yes...what happened is definitely what happened. But when considering a players greatness, you have to ask why and how it happened.
What bugs me is so many fans care about this individual stuff in a team game. During a players career, it has to be about his contribution to his team.
There is plenty of time to consider the other when careers are over. But this "if he wins another SB" or "if he has 5 more years of this many yards" ..."he's in the Hall" drives me friggin nuts.

What I want now is to win football games. And I don't give a **** who plays great to make it happen.
to be honest I couldn't care less if Eli gets in the HOF. But the QB is the one position where championships count way more. Either having them or NOT having them. It is the way it is. However....even without SB wins Eli, if he continues on the way he is, will prob have the stats to get in the HOF anyway....IMO

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 11:56 AM
I am so tempted to join this conversation but sticking to my guns about not getting involved in "the Eli debate" here on GMB. I will only state, in my humble opinion that what I have seen on film of Joe Namath and from what I used to hear from the older guys, the same ones that would always talk about Mickey Mantle the same way they do about Joe, is that Joe Namath deserves to be in HOF. Even today at his age, Joe Namath is still a great ambassador for the game and he exudes superstar charisma. The guy was a NY QB and he talked the talk and then he walked the walk with a win in SuperBowl III.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 11:57 AM
Is it the offenses fault when the defense is on the field first and they give up a big play?
With the new rules, you are going to give up big plays. You can barely touch WR's. and you can't hit them after the ball gets there. You also can't touch the QB except for about a square foot on his body.
In other words, the offense better have some big plays of their own because opposing defenses have the same disadvantages.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:00 PM
I am so tempted to join this conversation but sticking to my guns about not getting involved in "the Eli debate" here on GMB. I will only state, in my humble opinion that what I have seen on film of Joe Namath and from what I used to hear from the older guys, the same ones that would always talk about Mickey Mantle the same way they do about Joe, is that Joe Namath deserves to be in HOF. Even today at his age, Joe Namath is still a great ambassador for the game and he exudes superstar charisma. The guy was a NY QB and he talked the talk and then he walked the walk with a win in SuperBowl III.
Believe it or not, I'm not interested in another Eli fight.
I'm only talking about the criteria for the Hall and how I think its been skewed over the years. And also how a team game and individual accomplishments can run in opposition to each other.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:00 PM
With the new rules, you are going to give up big plays. You can barely touch WR's. and you can't hit them after the ball gets there. You also can't touch the QB except for about a square foot on his body.
In other words, the offense better have some big plays of their own because opposing defenses have the same disadvantages.The Niners, the Seahawks, the Ravens, and the Steelers had no problem having top defenses last year despite the rules favoring wideouts.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 12:01 PM
Believe it or not, I'm not interested in another Eli fight.
I'm only talking about the criteria for the Hall and how I think its been skewed over the years. And also how a team game and individual accomplishments can run in opposition to each other.
Like pitchers with wins and losses, ERA shoud be a bigger stat.......maybe it is IDK....

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:02 PM
The Niners, the Seahawks, the Ravens, and the Steelers had no problem having top defenses last year despite the rules favoring wideouts.
Did you see Joe Flacco torch the Niners in the SB? And that was the best defense in football.
The only chance a defense has is to disrupt the QB. With Justin Smith playing hurt, Aldon Smith was shut down and it didn't mattter who the LB's were or the secondary. They were going to be abused, given today's rules. And they were.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:04 PM
Did you see Joe Flacco torch the Niners in the SB? And that was the best defense in football.
The only chance a defense has is to disrupt the QB. With Justin Smith playing hurt, Aldon Smith was shut down and it didn't mattter who the LB's were or the secondary. They were going to be abused, given today's rules. And they were.All I'm saying is, there is a way to play great defense despite rules favoring the offense. The Ravens almost lost the SB too, it wasn't a blowout at the end. There really isn't any excuse to give up over 6,000 yards.

Diamondring
05-07-2013, 12:06 PM
All I'm saying is, there is a way to play great defense despite rules favoring the offense. The Ravens almost lost the SB too, it wasn't a blowout at the end. There really isn't any excuse to give up over 6,000 yards.You are right about that.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:12 PM
All I'm saying is, there is a way to play great defense despite rules favoring the offense. The Ravens almost lost the SB too, it wasn't a blowout at the end. There really isn't any excuse to give up over 6,000 yards.
How many yards did we give up when we won the SB the year before?

Yes defenses CAN play well. By getting after the QB and disrupting his ability to make plays. If you can't, they will kill you.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:13 PM
How many yards did we give up when we won the SB the year before?

Yes defenses CAN play well. By getting after the QB and disrupting his ability to make plays. If you can't, they will kill you.Our defense that year was abysmal as well, no excuse even though they won the Super Bowl..hell you would think they'd continue that level of play the following season. But injuries occur, things happen, it is what it is. It better not happen again.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:15 PM
Our defense that year was abysmal as well, no excuse even though they won the Super Bowl..hell you would think they'd continue that level of play the following season. But injuries occur, things happen, it is what it is. It better not happen again.
Rudy...there are no shut down defenses anymore.
Its a game of offense. That's what the new rules dictate.
If you can't score a lot of points, you will not be a winning team.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:17 PM
Rudy...there are no shut down defenses anymore.
Its a game of offense. That's what the new rules dictate.
If you can't score a lot of points, you will not be a winning team.I'm not talking about shut down defenses.
But there is no excuse to give up over 6,000 yards. There is none, none..none. NONE. I understand the offensive woes, I understand we can't have 200 yards of total offense, that is very true. But you can't expect to win a game where you give up almost 400 yards of offense.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:20 PM
I'm not talking about shut down defenses.
But there is no excuse to give up over 6,000 yards. There is none, none..none. NONE. I understand the offensive woes, I understand we can't have 200 yards of total offense, that is very true. But you can't expect to win a game where you give up almost 400 yards of offense.
I hear you.
I'm just saying that its not as true as it used to be. You just can't hit people anymore.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 12:22 PM
I hear you.
I'm just saying that its not as true as it used to be. You just can't hit people anymore.
yet there are devestating hits every week on the highlights. Season ending injuries, concussions, etc.
The game has been scaled back but it is still violent big time.....

MattMeyerBud
05-07-2013, 12:22 PM
The Niners, the Seahawks, the Ravens, and the Steelers had no problem having top defenses last year despite the rules favoring wideouts.

Ravens and Steelers didn't have top defenses last year

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 12:23 PM
Believe it or not, I'm not interested in another Eli fight.
I'm only talking about the criteria for the Hall and how I think its been skewed over the years. And also how a team game and individual accomplishments can run in opposition to each other.

I think the requirements for getting in to HOF pertain to the impact the player had during the era he played in so stats are going to be very subjective when taken in to account although I am sure voters do consider them. In the case of Joe Namath, if it were just stats that were considered, he more than likely wouldn't have gotten in. However, the guy played hurt for most of his career, he led NY Jets to victory in SuperBowl III in a huge upset and he guaranteed it. Joe played hurt for almost all of his career and his toughness is so legendary that even guys like myself that are too young to have seen him play live, know about it. The older guys still talk about Joe Namath in reverence. The biggest compliment I think they give him is when they boast about seeing him play live and their eyes shine up, just like the guys that talk about seeing Mickey Mantle play live. Ask any of those guys and they will tell you that Joe Namath belongs in HOF. The guy is a legend and is still an ambassador of the game.

In regard to what you claimed about the criteria being skewed, I guess I have to agree with you on that, it is very subjective and sometimes seems to be a popularity contest.

I am done with the "Eli debate" or "Eli fights." lol.........However, although I am not going to debate if he should or shouldn't go to HOF, I will state that if he does make it that I think the biggest factors will be the two SuperBowl runs and the consecutive games streak.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:25 PM
yet there are devestating hits every week on the highlights. Season ending injuries, concussions, etc.
The game has been scaled back but it is still violent big time.....
Whenever you see a big hit, the first thing everyone looks for is a flag. Tell me you don't look for it too.
You can't hit a ball catcher as he's reaching for the ball. Its almost impossible to reroute WR's. Anytime a players head moves when you hit them, even if you don't hit him in the head, they throw a flag.
I could list these things all day. Its just harder and harder to play defense in this new NFL.

MattMeyerBud
05-07-2013, 12:27 PM
I think the requirements for getting in to HOF pertain to the impact the player had during the era he played in so stats are going to be very subjective when taken in to account although I am sure voters do consider them. In the case of Joe Namath, if it were just stats that were considered, he more than likely wouldn't have gotten in. However, the guy played hurt for most of his career, he led NY Jets to victory in SuperBowl III in a huge upset and he guaranteed it. Joe played hurt for almost all of his career and his toughness is so legendary that even guys like myself that are too young to have seen him play live, know about it. The older guys still talk about Joe Namath in reverence. The biggest compliment I think they give him is when they boast about seeing him play live and their eyes shine up, just like the guys that talk about seeing Mickey Mantle play live. Ask any of those guys and they will tell you that Joe Namath belongs in HOF. The guy is a legend and is still an ambassador of the game.

In regard to what you claimed about the criteria being skewed, I guess I have to agree with you on that, it is very subjective and sometimes seems to be a popularity contest.

I am done with the "Eli debate" or "Eli fights." lol.........However, although I am not going to debate if he should or shouldn't go to HOF, I will state that if he does make it that I think the biggest factors will be the two SuperBowl runs and the consecutive games streak.

Eli > Simms

(that'll get moorehead into an Eli rant)

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:27 PM
I think the requirements for getting in to HOF pertain to the impact the player had during the era he played in so stats are going to be very subjective when taken in to account although I am sure voters do consider them. In the case of Joe Namath, if it were just stats that were considered, he more than likely wouldn't have gotten in. However, the guy played hurt for most of his career, he led NY Jets to victory in SuperBowl III in a huge upset and he guaranteed it. Joe played hurt for almost all of his career and his toughness is so legendary that even guys like myself that are too young to have seen him play live, know about it. The older guys still talk about Joe Namath in reverence. The biggest compliment I think they give him is when they boast about seeing him play live and their eyes shine up, just like the guys that talk about seeing Mickey Mantle play live. Ask any of those guys and they will tell you that Joe Namath belongs in HOF. The guy is a legend and is still an ambassador of the game.

In regard to what you claimed about the criteria being skewed, I guess I have to agree with you on that, it is very subjective and sometimes seems to be a popularity contest.

I am done with the "Eli debate" or "Eli fights." lol.........However, although I am not going to debate if he should or shouldn't go to HOF, I will state that if he does make it that I think the biggest factors will be the two SuperBowl runs and the consecutive games streak.

Who are you and what have you done with Buffy??????


Hahahaha!!!!!! .........All good points.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:27 PM
Eli > Simms

(that'll get moorehead into an Eli rant)
Love Ya Matt.
Now go home and cooks your wife's dinner!!!!

MattMeyerBud
05-07-2013, 12:28 PM
Love Ya Matt.
Now go home and cooks your wife's dinner!!!!

China House it is

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 12:29 PM
China House it is
As long as its not...."you know where".

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:30 PM
Ravens and Steelers didn't have top defenses last yearYes they did Matt....

gumby74
05-07-2013, 12:39 PM
Love Ya Matt.
Now go home and cooks your wife's dinner!!!!

Cereal. The meal of champions.

ryan12
05-07-2013, 12:47 PM
"hello my name is eli manning and im a addict, WELCOME ELI! i am addicted to superbowl victories ive been clean for 15months but feel myself going down the path and falling off the wagon"

dezzzR
05-07-2013, 01:06 PM
he never inhaledThink you mean he never exhaled.
http://biggiesplace.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/eli-face-11.jpg

Harooni
05-07-2013, 01:06 PM
the new rules have changed the way stats will look now, you cant look at qb's 20 years ago, how many qb's where playing at the level these qb's play today back then?

simply put , not all these qb's will; go to the HOF because they have better stats than Namath.. the bar is raised because of the new rules and will continue to as far as Godell keeps changing the rules

GameTime
05-07-2013, 01:39 PM
the new rules have changed the way stats will look now, you cant look at qb's 20 years ago, how many qb's where playing at the level these qb's play today back then?

simply put , not all these qb's will; go to the HOF because they have better stats than Namath.. the bar is raised because of the new rules and will continue to as far as Godell keeps changing the rules
Eli will still have enough to get in if he continues the same for another 4 years or so....

GameTime
05-07-2013, 01:40 PM
Whenever you see a big hit, the first thing everyone looks for is a flag. Tell me you don't look for it too.
You can't hit a ball catcher as he's reaching for the ball. Its almost impossible to reroute WR's. Anytime a players head moves when you hit them, even if you don't hit him in the head, they throw a flag.
I could list these things all day. Its just harder and harder to play defense in this new NFL.
of course I look for a flag. The hits still keep on coming tho.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 01:47 PM
of course I look for a flag. The hits still keep on coming tho.
Not like they used to.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 01:48 PM
Eli will still have enough to get in if he continues the same for another 4 years or so....
Please see my previous post suggesting how silly this attitude is.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 01:52 PM
Please see my previous post suggesting how silly this attitude is.
why...I am talking individual stats.....just like you said......

also I couldnt care less if he gets in. Just want wins and SBs.....

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 02:05 PM
why...I am talking individual stats.....just like you said......

also I couldnt care less if he gets in. Just want wins and SBs.....
Because The Hall shouldn't be a reward for longevity. It should be a reward for greatness.
Does playing 4 more years make him a better player? No.
This fixation about the accumulation of stats is besides the point. It doesn't make you a HOF'r. More importantly, it doesn't make you great.

pino
05-07-2013, 02:21 PM
First step is admission. The next step is winning.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 02:25 PM
Because The Hall shouldn't be a reward for longevity. It should be a reward for greatness.
Does playing 4 more years make him a better player? No.
This fixation about the accumulation of stats is besides the point. It doesn't make you a HOF'r. More importantly, it doesn't make you great.
how is Eli playing in the NFL for 11 or 12 years out of the norm. Even Great QBs need to have some time to show their "greatness"....right???
How do you not show your ability WITHOUT accumulating stats??
I know the real deal is you think Eli is not HOF material no matter what he does.......Thats what you are really trying to say...
which is fine and I dont really give a crap either way

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 02:37 PM
how is Eli playing in the NFL for 11 or 12 years out of the norm. Even Great QBs need to have some time to show their "greatness"....right???
How do you not show your ability WITHOUT accumulating stats??
I know the real deal is you think Eli is not HOF material no matter what he does.......Thats what you are really trying to say...
which is fine and I dont really give a crap either way
I just don't think he meets the standard of a "great" QB. And more years of similar play wouldn't change my view.
If he had some great play over the next few years, that would definitely change my view because he's not way off as far as I'm concerned.

But given the criteria of sports writers, I think he'll get in.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 02:48 PM
true but his first 3 quarters of both games are less than MVP like.They where not bad either. It was the Super Bowl. Not like the other team was bad and their OL and running game was horrible in 2011. If it wasn't for Rodgers being so good that year Eli should have been MVP.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 03:19 PM
They where not bad either. It was the Super Bowl. Not like the other team was bad and their OL and running game was horrible in 2011. If it wasn't for Rodgers being so good that year Eli should have been MVP.
No...Brees broke the all time yardage record.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 03:21 PM
No...Brees broke the all time yardage record.Eh, so did Brady. He just set he new record higher. That record is a joke now anyway. The way the rules are it will be broken over and over again.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 03:38 PM
No...Brees broke the all time yardage record.Everything favors the offense now though.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 04:43 PM
Eh, so did Brady. He just set he new record higher. That record is a joke now anyway. The way the rules are it will be broken over and over again. oh so you admit , stats will grow and grow because of the new rules?

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:45 PM
oh so you admit , stats will grow and grow because of the new rules?Only if you're a good quarterback :)

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 04:47 PM
oh so you admit , stats will grow and grow because of the new rules?Never said they wouldn't.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 05:03 PM
right, Just wanted to make it clear the same applies to Eli's stats some are saying trump some guys that played 20-30 years ago.

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 05:55 PM
No...Brees broke the all time yardage record.Drew did it playing a total of 13 games in optimal conditions that season while Tom Brady did it playing in muchore severe conditions. Drew Brees is a great QB but Tom Bradys record yardage season was more impressive.

AllHailEli
05-07-2013, 06:09 PM
what i dont get is many say Eli isnt going to turn into Rodgers, but then how in the heck is he a HOF lock?

Do you really care that Eli is not like Rodgers or do you care that he beat Rodgers and his 15-1 team on their way to winning the Giants their 4th Super Bowl? Let me know which one you prefer. If you want gaudy stats and total domination in the regular season, then make sure you'll be super happy to not win a Super Bowl after finishing 15-1 or better yet 16-0. You can't complain both ways -- you are either happy with a trophy or you're happy with the best record and all the gaudy stats that come with it minus the trophy.

Also, do you want regular season MVP or Super Bowl MVP?

AllHailEli
05-07-2013, 06:24 PM
well said, its defiantly a politics and popularity game. You throw 1 TD in the SB and get MVP when you have that famous last name its an edge. but i did think Eli at least deserved consideration.

They had to beat 3 other teams to get there, winning the Super Bowl at almost insurmountable circumstances was the pinnacle of it, so he just did not orchestrate one winning throw. Check his postseason stats on his two Super Bowl runs.

AllHailEli
05-07-2013, 06:28 PM
you keep missing the point, even bradshaw had so so stats. its a different ERA and QB's are coming out more and more athletic. as i said they arent going to be putting 5-8 QB's in the HOF in the same time period. its much harder to get in than people realize. many greats weren't first ballot.

Well, did winning a Super Bowl get much easier? If so, how many of his division rivals win one at the same period of time?

AllHailEli
05-07-2013, 06:31 PM
we dont hold brady under 18 points it doesnt happen. So that is the main reason we won, the offense did very little the first 3 quarters of play

Yeah, cuz the Patriots defense was only ranked #4 that year, that's why we should have scored at least 30 points.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 06:32 PM
right, Just wanted to make it clear the same applies to Eli's stats some are saying trump some guys that played 20-30 years ago.
if you are refering to me dissing Namath's career stats then you couldn't be more wrong. I never compared Namath to Eli. I compared Namath to his peers and asked if any other QB in his era is in the HOF with 50 more picks than TDs and 50% comp .......

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 08:13 PM
Yeah, cuz the Patriots defense was only ranked #4 that year, that's why we should have scored at least 30 points.
The Pats D was old and worn out by the time the playoffs came. They were ready to be beaten, especially in the 4th quarter.
If you don't think the coaching staff knew this you are incorrect.

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 08:36 PM
The Pats D was old and worn out by the time the playoffs came. They were ready to be beaten, especially in the 4th quarter.
If you don't think the coaching staff knew this you are incorrect.

That is why we started the game with that methodical 9:59 drive. We kept Tom Brady on the sidelines for that time while at the same tiime tiring out the aging defense of NE Patriots. Although they did get tired out a bit in my opinion, NE Patriots defense still played a heck of a game overall. That drive helped dictate the course of the game. I am pretty sure that our coaching staff knew after the last game of regular season that our best chance was to slow the game down. Granted, they were the #4 defense but MS is right, they were getting a little long in the tooth. We had a relatively young defense out there.

I have been in debate and debate too many times to count in regard to the different roles defense and offense played in SuperBowl XLII. I know some of you will do a double take on this one but I will give the defense its due. I have recently rewatched SuperBowl XLII and I will admit our defense really stood up in this game. This was a team effort and in looking back, I think this game is what really helped Eli Manning find his "niche" "identity as a clutch QB" or just what he will be remembered for and that is for not wavering in high pressure situations in big games in 4th quarter. Our defense, offense and running game really worked in synch in this game and in my humble opinion, I think the tempo of this game was the exact one we needed it to be to win.

As stated previously, I will not get in to the Eli Manning debate but if we are to not have him revert to 2011 form on consistent basis and he plays inconsistently but gets it together and plays great for another one or two SuperBowl runs then I am fine with that. Heck, I am fine if he never wins another playoff game with all he has helped this rteam accomplish. Whatever folks think about him, he will always be a NY Giant legend and will be revered in NYC just like Phil Simms and Jeff Hosstetler.

appodictic
05-07-2013, 08:55 PM
Just like an addiction the giants seem to get there fix, then go on doing something else, then get their fix again.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 09:41 PM
That is why we started the game with that methodical 9:59 drive. We kept Tom Brady on the sidelines for that time while at the same tiime tiring out the aging defense of NE Patriots. Although they did get tired out a bit in my opinion, NE Patriots defense still played a heck of a game overall. That drive helped dictate the course of the game. I am pretty sure that our coaching staff knew after the last game of regular season that our best chance was to slow the game down. Granted, they were the #4 defense but MS is right, they were getting a little long in the tooth. We had a relatively young defense out there.

I have been in debate and debate too many times to count in regard to the different roles defense and offense played in SuperBowl XLII. I know some of you will do a double take on this one but I will give the defense its due. I have recently rewatched SuperBowl XLII and I will admit our defense really stood up in this game. This was a team effort and in looking back, I think this game is what really helped Eli Manning find his "niche" "identity as a clutch QB" or just what he will be remembered for and that is for not wavering in high pressure situations in big games in 4th quarter. Our defense, offense and running game really worked in synch in this game and in my humble opinion, I think the tempo of this game was the exact one we needed it to be to win.

As stated previously, I will not get in to the Eli Manning debate but if we are to not have him revert to 2011 form on consistent basis and he plays inconsistently but gets it together and plays great for another one or two SuperBowl runs then I am fine with that. Heck, I am fine if he never wins another playoff game with all he has helped this rteam accomplish. Whatever folks think about him, he will always be a NY Giant legend and will be revered in NYC just like Phil Simms and Jeff Hosstetler.
In all honesty I don't think we were trying to slow the game down. I think we were just taking what the defense was giving us. It just kind of worked out the way it did.
As for Eli's reputation as a late game QB...I would say he already had that. It really was his M.O. for several years. But it was certainly solidified in SB 42.
Other than that I agree with most or all of the other points you made. I happen to think that both SB wins and both SB runs were pure team efforts.

giantsfan420
05-07-2013, 09:53 PM
The Pats D was old and worn out by the time the playoffs came. They were ready to be beaten, especially in the 4th quarter.
If you don't think the coaching staff knew this you are incorrect.wow.

giantsfan420
05-07-2013, 09:57 PM
that "old defense ready to hand us the game bc they were old and tired." not before the there 19th game at all, their old age odometer was set to run out after the 3rd quarter. glad to know, news to me.

i mean, what the hey, they only were ranked better than us in every category aside from sacks maybe. and, they had ONLY, what, 5 potential HOFers (R.Seymour, R. Harrison, J.Seau, T.Bruschi, A.Samuel. and theres prob a few more). And, they were only playing to become the most dominant team in sports history with the greatest team accomplishment record possible...they were old and ready to hand it to us...the coaches obviously knew this as well looking back...

do u really believe some of the things u claim?

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 10:18 PM
that "old defense ready to hand us the game bc they were old and tired." not before the there 19th game at all, their old age odometer was set to run out after the 3rd quarter. glad to know, news to me.

i mean, what the hey, they only were ranked better than us in every category aside from sacks maybe. and, they had ONLY, what, 5 potential HOFers (R.Seymour, R. Harrison, J.Seau, T.Bruschi, A.Samuel. and theres prob a few more). And, they were only playing to become the most dominant team in sports history with the greatest team accomplishment record possible...they were old and ready to hand it to us...the coaches obviously knew this as well looking back...

do u really believe some of the things u claim?

I live in Mass and I watched every game the Pats played that year. Their defense was old and slow. And they began to wear down late in the season. I'm telling you, that defense (despite its "rank") wasn't very good. And with the exception of Samuel, all the players you mentioned were at or near the end of their careers.
The Pats were driven by their offense. And it was an all time great offense. But that defense could be had.

Drez
05-07-2013, 10:22 PM
But that defense could be had.Yet, somehow wasn't.

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 10:26 PM
Yet, somehow wasn't.
Didn't we score 2 TD's on them in the 4th quarter?
I'm not saying it was a bad defense. I'm saying they were old and slow. They played with huge leads all season. Opposing gameplans were blown up early in many games.
But in a tough, close game, you could beat them, as we did. Great frontrunning defense. But get them in a street fight and they were exposed.
Its just the story of the 2007 Pats.
And I live in Pats country. EVERY one of my Pat fan friends has agreed with me on this when we've discussed it. And if you knew me as a Giants fan in Pats country, who just beat them in the SB............we discussed it plenty.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 10:34 PM
Eli is addicted to the Giants Holding Brady down.

Broadway Blue
05-07-2013, 10:36 PM
Heres hoping for another Super Bowl MVP for Eli

Broadway Blue
05-07-2013, 10:39 PM
Didn't we score 2 TD's on them in the 4th quarter?
I'm not saying it was a bad defense. I'm saying they were old and slow. They played with huge leads all season. Opposing gameplans were blown up early in many games.
But in a tough, close game, you could beat them, as we did. Great frontrunning defense. But get them in a street fight and they were exposed.
Its just the story of the 2007 Pats.
And I live in Pats country. EVERY one of my Pat fan friends has agreed with me on this when we've discussed it. And if you knew me as a Giants fan in Pats country, who just beat them in the SB............we discussed it plenty.

How do you grade the Patriots draft picks?

Harooni
05-07-2013, 10:43 PM
Heres hoping for another Super Bowl MVP for Eli id love another SB but this time dont give the MVP to the QB by default , give it to someone on Defense, especially if they hold a brady to under 20 points.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 10:50 PM
Hard to argue that Eli did not deserve both MVP awards. He has the best play ever in a Super Bowl and another play tha has to be top 5. They also came at the end of both games as winning drives. Had he not had those plays Tuck could have won the MVP just as well in both Super Bowls.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 10:55 PM
i remember big ben shaking a defender throwing on the run and throwing a last drive 4th qtr td as well as another td earlier but not getting a sbmvp. but his last name of course is not manning.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 11:02 PM
Eli had a slightly better day than Ben did and Holmes had a great game. No offensive player had a game like Holmes did that day.

giantsfan420
05-07-2013, 11:08 PM
Yet, somehow wasn't.lol. i think @ the time, they allowed the fewest points in team history or afc history, something noteworthy. there point differential was insane. i think they allowed more than like 20 points 3x all yr. gotta recheck alotta this is from memory

giantsfan420
05-07-2013, 11:09 PM
Hard to argue that Eli did not deserve both MVP awards. He has the best play ever in a Super Bowl and another play tha has to be top 5. They also came at the end of both games as winning drives. Had he not had those plays Tuck could have won the MVP just as well in both Super Bowls.ding ding ding. to imply eli won them by default is comical. he earned both awards.

Harooni
05-07-2013, 11:11 PM
I have no problem with Eli getting them , only that he isnt HOF material . when your the 9th or 11th passer year in and year out , you are not a Famer.

Broadway Blue
05-07-2013, 11:16 PM
Hard to argue that Eli did not deserve both MVP awards. He has the best play ever in a Super Bowl and another play tha has to be top 5. They also came at the end of both games as winning drives. Had he not had those plays Tuck could have won the MVP just as well in both Super Bowls.

+1

Hopefully Tuck turns it around this year

BuffyBlueII
05-07-2013, 11:44 PM
i remember big ben shaking a defender throwing on the run and throwing a last drive 4th qtr td as well as another td earlier but not getting a sbmvp. but his last name of course is not manning.

Well in his 1st SuperBowl, Ben Rapistfatbuger had the worst QBR of any wining QB in SuperBowl history and Pittsburgh Steelers won in spite of him. In his 2nd SuperBowl he played better but Santonio Holmes came up big and deserved the MVP.

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 12:19 AM
Yes they did Matt....

Steelers did my bad, but ravens def didnt

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 12:20 AM
Please see my previous post suggesting how silly this attitude is.
If he continues like he has been? Known as clutch, wins another Super Bowl, does t miss a game, and continues with the numbers and not having a losing season?

Even you wouldn't be able to debate it

Diamondring
05-08-2013, 04:57 AM
Who Eli really had in the first Superbowl? Most of the receivers and backs were not that much known. Plax was the biggest receiver Eli had while Brady had really two good receivers and play calling along with the plays. Eli had KG who is known to be a predictable play caller. Yet Eli played real real well to help the Giants beat the Pats defense. Eli is the man. Hope he keeps it up.

Flip Empty
05-08-2013, 05:37 AM
Who Eli really had in the first Superbowl? Most of the receivers and backs were not that much known. Plax was the biggest receiver Eli had while Brady had really two good receivers and play calling along with the plays. Eli had KG who is known to be a predictable play caller. Yet Eli played real real well to help the Giants beat the Pats defense. Eli is the man. Hope he keeps it up.

Err... Plax, Toomer and Steve Smith? Brandon Jacobs who'd had a 1000 yard season? You're saying they were nothing?

This "Eli is Jesus" delusion that so many seem to suffer from is bizarre, to say the least.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 06:49 AM
Err... Plax, Toomer and Steve Smith? Brandon Jacobs who'd had a 1000 yard season? You're saying they were nothing?

This "Eli is Jesus" delusion that so many seem to suffer from is bizarre, to say the least.

It is interesting to watch though

SweetZombieJesus
05-08-2013, 07:19 AM
it does matter that it was back in the day ,you will see many QB's going foward putting up nice stats and winning SB's they dont just jam everyone in. in those days QB's would get hammered and rarely stay uninjured. the NFL is way different now and into the future Godell will stop QB sacks one day, lol

Most would agree that Aikman got in because of his 3 SBs

Diamondring
05-08-2013, 09:02 AM
Err... Plax, Toomer and Steve Smith? Brandon Jacobs who'd had a 1000 yard season? You're saying they were nothing?

This "Eli is Jesus" delusion that so many seem to suffer from is bizarre, to say the least.I didn't say they were nothing you did. I said they were not that much known at that time. I should have said, Bradshaw Smith and Boss. Yet Toomer was old in football years and BJ was not that much of a threat in the passing game. In the Superbowl, Eli played very well and deserve to be MVP. Smith was a rookie don't forget. I never said Plax was nothing to so you messed up. I said he was the biggest threat on the field did I? Was BJ a good receiver? If so then I am sorry but I thought his catching was a questionmark. Oh and you forgot Smith who was also a rookie.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:05 AM
I didn't say they were nothing you did. I said they were not that much known at that time. I should have said, Bradshaw Smith and Boss. Yet Toomer was old in football years and BJ was not that much of a threat in the passing game. In the Superbowl, Eli played very well and deserve to be MVP. Smith was a rookie don't forget. I never said Plax was nothing to so you messed up. I said he was the biggest threat on the field did I? Was BJ a good receiver? If so then I am sorry but I thought his catching was a questionmark. Oh and you forgot Smith who was also a rookie.
Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer and Brandon Jacobs were "not known"?

Spare me.

GameTime
05-08-2013, 09:09 AM
i remember big ben shaking a defender throwing on the run and throwing a last drive 4th qtr td as well as another td earlier but not getting a sbmvp. but his last name of course is not manning.
shut up already......

GameTime
05-08-2013, 09:11 AM
I have no problem with Eli getting them , only that he isnt HOF material . when your the 9th or 11th passer year in and year out , you are not a Famer.
why are you crying about Eli being a HOFr....is career isnt even close to over yet...
you have no problem with Eli getting SB MVP but you whine about it all the time....hmmm.....seems a bit contradictory to me....

GameTime
05-08-2013, 09:12 AM
If he continues like he has been? Known as clutch, wins another Super Bowl, does t miss a game, and continues with the numbers and not having a losing season?

Even you wouldn't be able to debate it
no he will still refute it because MH believes that longevity, great play, and stats, dont mean too much when deciding a HOF player....

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:13 AM
shut up already......
Ben was the best player on the field that game. He was under constant pressure and extended countless plays. His play was the difference between winning and losing.
No comment on the last name claim however.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:14 AM
no he will still refute it because MH believes that longevity, great play, and stats, dont mean too much when deciding a HOF player....
I don't?
I only commented on longevity.
Please characterize my positions correctly.

GameTime
05-08-2013, 09:15 AM
Ben was the best player on the field that game. He was under constant pressure and extended countless plays. His play was the difference between winning and losing.
No comment on the last name claim however.
not debating Ben's performance just busting Harooni with his fixation with the "Manning" name being the reason Eli is what he is....

GameTime
05-08-2013, 09:15 AM
I don't?
I only commented on longevity.
Please characterize my positions correctly.

yeah...you said that longevity in the league to amass stats should not be a factor......
only individual greatness amonngst your peers should matter

Dline83
05-08-2013, 09:23 AM
I have no problem with Eli getting them , only that he isnt HOF material . when your the 9th or 11th passer year in and year out , you are not a Famer.


By your logic Simms should never get voted in the HOF, agree?

Flip Empty
05-08-2013, 09:30 AM
I didn't say they were nothing you did. I said they were not that much known at that time. I should have said, Bradshaw Smith and Boss. Yet Toomer was old in football years and BJ was not that much of a threat in the passing game. In the Superbowl, Eli played very well and deserve to be MVP. Smith was a rookie don't forget. I never said Plax was nothing to so you messed up. I said he was the biggest threat on the field did I? Was BJ a good receiver? If so then I am sorry but I thought his catching was a questionmark. Oh and you forgot Smith who was also a rookie.
You're right, you didn't say they were nothing. I made an assumption.

What I don't understand is why you used Eli's supporting cast's status (perceived as it may be) as a negative. As if it was something that he had to overcome.

Also, Jacobs' catching ability - what does that have to do with anything?

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:32 AM
yeah...you said that longevity in the league to amass stats should not be a factor......
only individual greatness amonngst your peers should matter
"Greatness" should be, by far the most important consideration.
I reject the accumulation of stats. Guys like Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg accumulated stats.
You are either a great football player or you're not. Great ones should be in the Hall. "Very good" QB's should fall a tad short. That's why players like Gayle Sayers and Joe Namath are in the Hall. They passed the eyeball test. they were just flat great.

If you're "very good" for many, many years so you accumulated huge all time numbers, it still doesn't make you great. Just good for a long time.
In my view, that's not good enough either.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:34 AM
You're right, you didn't say they were nothing. I made an assumption.

What I don't understand is why you used Eli's supporting cast's status (perceived as it may be) as a negative. As if it was something that he had to overcome.

Also, Jacobs' catching ability - what does that have to do with anything?

They scored 17 and 18 points in the two SB's.
Not sure that's a great performance in either case.
They do get huge credit from me for driving down the field at the end of each game however.

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 09:34 AM
Err... Plax, Toomer and Steve Smith? Brandon Jacobs who'd had a 1000 yard season? You're saying they were nothing?

This "Eli is Jesus" delusion that so many seem to suffer from is bizarre, to say the least.

no but nobody considered us to have a high powered offense. Toomer was not even considered a top 25 receiver then, Steve Smith was a rookie second round receiver who had minimal impact.

Jacobs and Plax were def highly regarded but it wasn't like they were being labeled the best in the game

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 09:35 AM
Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer and Brandon Jacobs were "not known"?

Spare me.

who cares if they were known, how did they rank among their peers?

Jacobs was considered a top 10 back, maybe and Plaxico was one of the most debated players when it comes to where he ranked among his peers. Hell even on these own message boards.

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 09:36 AM
I don't?
I only commented on longevity.
Please characterize my positions correctly.

haha was about to say, wasn't pappy just saying that longevity is overrated?

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:37 AM
no but nobody considered us to have a high powered offense. Toomer was not even considered a top 25 receiver then, Steve Smith was a rookie second round receiver who had minimal impact.

Jacobs and Plax were def highly regarded but it wasn't like they were being labeled the best in the game
Thus the low point total for our offense during the entire playoffs.

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 09:37 AM
They scored 17 and 18 points in the two SB's.
Not sure that's a great performance in either case.
They do get huge credit from me for driving down the field at the end of each game however.

so clutch moments, do you consider them to fall under that greatness category?

I mean, isn't that the reason why we bash Romo every year even though his numbers typically are pretty good?

Dline83
05-08-2013, 09:40 AM
"Greatness" should be, by far the most important consideration.
I reject the accumulation of stats. Guys like Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg accumulated stats.
You are either a great football player or you're not. Great ones should be in the Hall. "Very good" QB's should fall a tad short.
If your "very good" for many, many years so you accumulated huge all time numbers, it still doesn't make you great. Just good for a long time.
In my view, that's not good enough either.

I have a problem with that logic, how do you define greatness without using stats? If you are not using any type of data to back up a claim then it is simply speculation and conjecture.

I know that you have said the same thing about Manning before, referencing stats, and I think you have every right to your opinion, but I think you have to admit (and I believe that you have in previous posts) that because Simms is you favorite QB that you disregard the stats because they do not back up your claim.

I don't care who people think is the best QB, if people think that Manning is better than Simms (and you can reference how the game has changed to enhance offensive numbers), if Simms is better than Manning, but I don't understand how you see things with such blinders on.

Just answer me this, if stats are not a claim to greatness and you yourself say that you are either a great football player or not, what quantifies that? Win/loss records, playoff wins, SB wins, awards?

MattMeyerBud
05-08-2013, 09:41 AM
Thus the low point total for our offense during the entire playoffs.

wasn't that low - it was enough to run through the playoffs and win a superbowl.

I've said it before, if we score 24 points I expect to win

Buddy333
05-08-2013, 09:43 AM
Eli will never win a stat contest but it shouldn't matter. What he showed he can do in the clutch is way more important than finishing the season with a better stat line. His biggest problem is consistency. Ask Brady if he would trade his 2007 and 2011 stats for two more rings.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:44 AM
so clutch moments, do you consider them to fall under that greatness category?

I mean, isn't that the reason why we bash Romo every year even though his numbers typically are pretty good?
Playing in the clutch gets very high marks for me. And Eli has had his share of great clutch moments. He's also had failure in the clutch.
On balance he has been a clutch player. But how do you explain the pretty average output otherwise?
His teams have missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years.
I just want to be able to count on him more, game in and game out. His inconsistency seems to mirror the teams inconsistency.

And Romo just has the choke gene. Don't know where it comes from. That's a big Albatross to get from around his neck.

Buddy333
05-08-2013, 09:46 AM
Playing in the clutch gets very high marks for me. And Eli has had his share of great clutch moments. He's also had failure in the clutch.On balance he has been a clutch player. But how do you explain the pretty average output otherwise?His teams have missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years.I just want to be able to count on him more, game in and game out. His inconsistency seems to mirror the teams inconsistency.And Romo just has the choke gene. Don't know where it comes from. That's a big Albatross to get from around his neck.Can't remember a game off hand where the game fell on Eli and he fell short? He has had his bad games for sure. Just don't remember one that he choked at the end. You are putting it all on him for missing the playoffs? That's like saying Rodgers chokes.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:46 AM
wasn't that low - it was enough to run through the playoffs and win a superbowl.

I've said it before, if we score 24 points I expect to win
We've scored more than 24 points in the Eli era in playoff games a total of once.

Flip Empty
05-08-2013, 09:47 AM
no but nobody considered us to have a high powered offense. Toomer was not even considered a top 25 receiver then, Steve Smith was a rookie second round receiver who had minimal impact.

Jacobs and Plax were def highly regarded but it wasn't like they were being labeled the best in the game
Different philosophy and personnel configuration then. Great o-line and a good defense. The O didn't need to score 34 points to win because the D could keep the game within reach. A high-powered offense wasn't necessary.

Meanwhile, that Patriots team relied on its air attack to beat the crap out of whoever it was facing. When they couldn't do that, they became human.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:47 AM
Can't remember a game off hand where the game fell on Eli and he fell short? He has had his bad games for sure. Just don't remember one that he choked at the end.
A football game never falls on one player. Unless I guess if its a kicker.

Dline83
05-08-2013, 09:47 AM
Playing in the clutch gets very high marks for me. And Eli has had his share of great clutch moments. He's also had failure in the clutch.
On balance he has been a clutch player. But how do you explain the pretty average output otherwise?
His teams have missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years.
I just want to be able to count on him more, game in and game out. His inconsistency seems to mirror the teams inconsistency.

And Romo just has the choke gene. Don't know where it comes from. That's a big Albatross to get from around his neck.

Here is an article asking the same question, is Manning the most clutch QB in the NFL, a fun read!

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Is-Eli-Manning-the-NFLs-most-clutch-QB.html

Buddy333
05-08-2013, 09:49 AM
A football game never falls on one player. Unless I guess if its a kicker.So what game are you referring to when you say he has had his failure in the clutch? Clutch would mean the game is on the line no?

Flip Empty
05-08-2013, 09:50 AM
A football game never falls on one player. Unless I guess if its a kicker.
Even then there's the snapper, holder and blockers who have to do their jobs, too.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:55 AM
I have a problem with that logic, how do you define greatness without using stats? If you are not using any type of data to back up a claim then it is simply speculation and conjecture.

I know that you have said the same thing about Manning before, referencing stats, and I think you have every right to your opinion, but I think you have to admit (and I believe that you have in previous posts) that because Simms is you favorite QB that you disregard the stats because they do not back up your claim.

I don't care who people think is the best QB, if people think that Manning is better than Simms (and you can reference how the game has changed to enhance offensive numbers), if Simms is better than Manning, but I don't understand how you see things with such blinders on.

Just answer me this, if stats are not a claim to greatness and you yourself say that you are either a great football player or not, what quantifies that? Win/loss records, playoff wins, SB wins, awards?
I'm sorry...I'm not making myself clear. I'm not saying that stats aren't an important consideration. I mean that the "accumulation" of stats is very misleading.
So if a guy plays 10 years and averages 4000 yards and 35 TD'd, and has any kind of playoff performance, he is a HOF'r probably.
So he's got 40,000 yards and 350 TD'd.
If another guy plays 18 years and averages 2500 yards and 20 TD's/year, he has superior numbers. Is he a HOF'r too? I say no.

Its what I call the Don Sutton syndrome. If you have enough years of mediocre to above average stats, your lifetime stats look awesome. But you were NEVER a great player.

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 09:57 AM
Even then there's the snapper, holder and blockers who have to do their jobs, too.
Well that's kind of my point. Eli's Giants (and I'm not going to single Eli out) have fallen in important games. Last year at Atlanta comes to mind. The entire team was a no show for a vital game. GB in 2010 was another. And the Philly playoff game was horrific.

Dline83
05-08-2013, 10:00 AM
I'm sorry...I'm not making myself clear. I'm not saying that stats aren't an important consideration. I mean that the "accumulation" of stats is very misleading.
So if a guy plays 10 years and averages 4000 yards and 35 TD'd, and has any kind of playoff performance, he is a HOF'r probably.
So he's got 40,000 yards and 350 TD'd.
If another guy plays 18 years and averages 2500 yards and 20 TD's/year, he has superior numbers. Is he a HOF'r too? I say no.

Its what I call the Don Sutton syndrome. If you have enough years of mediocre to above average stats, your lifetime stats look awesome. But you were NEVER a great player.

Ok, that I do agree with, and I think that is a very logical way to navigate who is actually preforming at a high level versus an accumulation of average stats over a long period of time, but is Manning not closer to the first stat line that you listed than the second? What about Simms, do you think he is a HOF'er?

Morehead State
05-08-2013, 10:03 AM
Ok, that I do agree with, and I think that is a very logical way to navigate who is actually preforming at a high level versus an accumulation of average stats over a long period of time, but is Manning not closer to the first stat line that you listed than the second? What about Simms, do you think he is a HOF'er?
I love Phil but he's not a HOF'r. If he makes it I will be there though.
He had too much crap happen to him, especially early in his career. Kept him from being able to get on a roll.
I will say this though, he was a better player than Aikman. Aikman threw a lot of red zone picks and was the beneficiary of great talent around him on offense.
The fact that Aikman is in and Randall Cunningham isn't is a travesty.

And I do NOT think Eli's productivity is along those lines. He is usually in the middle (albeit middle third) of the pack in yards and TD's. And is often near or at the top in picks.

TCHOF
05-08-2013, 10:11 AM
It is interesting to watch though

It was for the first 100 threads on the subject . . . . the next 10,000? Not so much . . .

GameTime
05-08-2013, 10:13 AM
"Greatness" should be, by far the most important consideration.
I reject the accumulation of stats. Guys like Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testeverde and Steve Deberg accumulated stats.
You are either a great football player or you're not. Great ones should be in the Hall. "Very good" QB's should fall a tad short. That's why players like Gayle Sayers and Joe Namath are in the Hall. They passed the eyeball test. they were just flat great.

If you're "very good" for many, many years so you accumulated huge all time numbers, it still doesn't make you great. Just good for a long time.
In my view, that's not good enough either.
I hear what you are saying about being a very good player and lasting a long time. You said Namath passed the eyeball test. Did those same eyeballs see all those picks?? I was only 4 when Namath won in 69 and when you see hihghlights of course you only see the best plays. but he must have really sucked often to have 50 more picks than TDs.......just my veiw. How does a "great" QB have those stats??

Dline83
05-08-2013, 10:16 AM
I love Phil but he's not a HOF'r. If he makes it I will be there though.
He had too much crap happen to him, especially early in his career. Kept him from being able to get on a roll.
I will say this though, he was a better player than Aikman. Aikman threw a lot of red zone picks and was the beneficiary of great talent around him on offense.
The fact that Aikman is in and Randall Cunningham isn't is a travesty.

100% agree with that. No comparison in what Simms did with the talent around him (especially on the line, or should I say the talent lacking on the line). I also agree that Simms is not HOF material but it would have been a different story if the injuries did not take away so much time and if the level of talent he had to work with (even just on the offensive line) was a bit higher. I was a massive Cunningham fan and I always felt that it was a disservice that he had not gotten into the HOF, he literally altered the game for the QB position the same way LT did for the LB position.

In my opinion I think Eli is the best QB we have ever had, I could be wrong, or you could feel differently and you are totally right to have your own opinion. In the end can we not all just be happy that we get to have these arguments over who is better rather than being fans of a team like the Jets who's message board must be arguing over who is the worst QB they have had.

BuffyBlueII
05-08-2013, 10:17 AM
It was for the first 100 threads on the subject . . . . the next 10,000? Not so much . . .As the Eli debate rages on, I wanted to ask if you folks are aware that NY Rangers are in playoffs?Lets Go NY Rangers.Blue or Die.