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RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 11:41 AM
http://www.bigblueview.com/2013/5/7/4306164/new-york-giants-eli-manning-jason-pierre-paul-will-beatty-top-100-list

Excerpt: "Jason Pierre-Paul, Will Beatty and Eli Manning made the Pro Football Focus list of the 101 best players of the 2012 NFL season." Read more...

Carter.525
05-07-2013, 11:42 AM
wow, no Cruz?!?!?

giantscolombia
05-07-2013, 11:43 AM
wow, no Cruz?!?!?
WOW! like honestly. Not trying to be a troll but seriously? Cruz was a top 10 receiver last year!

giantscolombia
05-07-2013, 11:45 AM
Who were the top 10. unfortunately, I cannot see this list here at work izzle

ryan12
05-07-2013, 11:46 AM
cruz got snubbed

gumby74
05-07-2013, 11:49 AM
JPP wasn't even all that impressive last year imo. But it's nice to see Beatty get some recognition. How is Cruz not on there.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 11:50 AM
Lol, wow.

giantscolombia
05-07-2013, 11:50 AM
This is an OUTRAGE!

Where is OSI!

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 11:52 AM
The wide receivers were:

Andre Johnson, Texans
Calvin Johnson, Lions
Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers
Brandon Marshall, Bears
AJ Green, Bengals
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos
Roddy White, Falcons
Percy Harvin, Vikings
Reggie Wayne, Colts
Anquan Boldin, Ravens
Julio Jones, Falcons

BigBlue1971
05-07-2013, 11:57 AM
The wide receivers were:

Andre Johnson, Texans
Calvin Johnson, Lions
Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers
Brandon Marshall, Bears
AJ Green, Bengals
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos
Roddy White, Falcons
Percy Harvin, Vikings
Reggie Wayne, Colts
Anquan Boldin, Ravens
Julio Jones, Falcons

1 could argue Cruz is better than 75% of the 1s on the list!

FishinTheSalt
05-07-2013, 12:06 PM
The wide receivers were:

Andre Johnson, Texans
Calvin Johnson, Lions
Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers
Brandon Marshall, Bears
AJ Green, Bengals
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos
Roddy White, Falcons
Percy Harvin, Vikings
Reggie Wayne, Colts
Anquan Boldin, Ravens
Julio Jones, Falcons


Maybe this will help cruz realize his value. Wishful thinking right?

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 12:09 PM
1 could argue Cruz is better than 75% of the 1s on the list!Really? One could argue that all of those guys where better.

gumby74
05-07-2013, 12:10 PM
Really? One could argue that all of those guys where better. +1. I'd rather have any of those guys over Cruz.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 12:11 PM
Maybe this will help cruz realize his value. Wishful thinking right?

I'm not a stat guy, so do we assume all of the receivers had better stas than Cruz?

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:11 PM
Yeah...looking at the list of receivers, it's kinda hard to replace one of those guys with Cruz. I think he should be put in place of Percy Harvin, but that is it.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:13 PM
I'm not a stat guy, so do we assume all of the receivers had better stas than Cruz?Yeah, I think all of them minus Percy Harvin had better seasons than Cruz.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 12:14 PM
Yeah, I think all of them minus Percy Harvin had better seasons than Cruz.

Then the list is fine with me.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 12:19 PM
+1. I'd rather have any of those guys over Cruz.One could even add a couple names to that list. Cruz is a very good WR and even better when he has another threat on the field.

RagTime Blue
05-07-2013, 12:20 PM
I wonder if Special Teams were taken into account with the list.

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 12:20 PM
Yeah...looking at the list of receivers, it's kinda hard to replace one of those guys with Cruz. I think he should be put in place of Percy Harvin, but that is it.

I don't know... Harvin was on an absolute tear before he got hurt. MVP-type numbers.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 12:21 PM
The thing about Harvin is hat when healthy he can do more than most WR's in the league. They use him in the backfield and on special teams. He is very good at those things as well.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:27 PM
The thing about Harvin is hat when healthy he can do more than most WR's in the league. They use him in the backfield and on special teams. He is very good at those things as well.But this is a list of the top reveivers in 2012. Notice how Larry Fitzgerald isn't on there. It's all based on 2012 production.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:28 PM
I don't know... Harvin was on an absolute tear before he got hurt. MVP-type numbers.Well you can't judge a player before he got hurt. If that's the case then Nicks should be on the list.

JimC
05-07-2013, 12:34 PM
But this is a list of the top reveivers in 2012. Notice how Larry Fitzgerald isn't on there. It's all based on 2012 production.

I'll take Larry Fitzgerald over any of the guys on that list.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:37 PM
I'll take Larry Fitzgerald over any of the guys on that list.As will I.

I was just explaining that this was based on last seasons production, and not over their careers.

TheEnigma
05-07-2013, 12:40 PM
Here are some notable players from the NFCE on the PFF top 101

96. Dez Bryant, WR, Dallas Cowboys (Unranked)

The scary thing about Bryant is that even with 1,382 yards he could have had so much more. A quite fantastic end to the season shouldn’t make you forget a somewhat inconsistent start where big plays mixed with equally big disconnects with his quarterback. His final eight games though, including that game versus New Orleans, should put all the NFL on notice for 2013.

Best Performance: Week 16 versus New Orleans, +4.2

Key Stat: His five touchdowns on passing thrown over 20 yards in the air were second most in the entire league.

90. Eli Manning, QB, New York Giants (8th)

While Eli was unable to replicate his marvelous 2011, let’s not pretend he didn’t play extremely well for most of the season. While some performances disappointed (notably against Pittsburgh and Atlanta) Manning was able to almost carry his struggling Giants into the playoffs with his usual array of clutch throws.

Best Performance: Week 2 versus Tampa Bay, +6.3

Key Stat: Completion percentage under pressure dropped to 47.9% in 2012, after it was 55.6% a year earlier.

85. Will Beatty, LT, New York Giants (Unranked)

Injury meant Beatty didn’t start the season as the Giants’ left tackle. Whether injuries handed him his starting job back, or it was the Giants’ plan all along, the former second-round pick didn’t take much time showing everyone what he was capable of. A fine pass protector, Beatty is one of those left tackles who can actually generate some movement in the run game as well.

Best Performance: Week 3 at Carolina, +5.4

Key Stat: Allowed just three sacks and zero quarterback hits all season long.

77. Jason Hatcher, DE, Dallas Cowboys (Unranked)

Of all the players on the Cowboys’ defense, Hatcher isn’t a guy who you automatically think of as being one of their best players. That is changing though after his breakout 2012. Coping with his most significant amount of playing time (784 snaps), by the end of the year you were wondering just why it took him so long to have such a prominent role. Stepped up on every down.

Best Performance: Week 16 versus New Orleans, +4.3

Key Stat: His 42 quarterback disruptions were third-most of any 3-4 defensive end.

76. Brandon Graham, DE, Philadelphia Eagles (Unranked)

Season 2012 was something of a glimpse at what Graham is capable of, as he got on the field for only 435 snaps. That, and that alone, was why he didn’t finish any higher because he was outstanding when he was on the field. Finishing as the most productive pass rusher in the league, Graham was near unstoppable when he got on the field.

Best Performance: Week 15 versus Cincinnati, +6.2

Key Stat: Turned his 205 pass rushes into 45 combined sacks, hits and hurries. That gave him the best Pass Rushing Productivity rating of any defensive player.

66. Anthony Spencer, OLB, Dallas Cowboys (Unranked)

If you had predicted one Cowboys outside linebacker to make the list before the year, odds are it wouldn’t have been Spencer. However, the Cowboys’ franchise player had his best season as a pro where he delivered on a far more consistent basis then he’s more recognizable partner in crime. His return of 40 quarterback disruptions was extremely healthy, while his work setting the edge was really what set him apart from the crowd.

Best Performance: Week 10 versus Philadelphia, +4.8

Key Stat: His 41 stops in the run game were 11 more than the next best 3-4 outside linebacker.

62. Jason Witten, TE, Dallas Cowboys (Unranked)

While there was a sentiment that Witten benefited from simply been throw to a lot (146 times to be precise), there’s no denying he turned many of those catches into significant plays for the Cowboys. What’s more, Witten backed up his receiving with some fine blocking, even after overcoming an injury that most felt would see him miss considerable time.

Best Performance: Week 8 versus New York Giants, +7.0

Key Stat: His 56 combined first-down and touchdown receptions were the 14th-most of any offensive player.

46. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, New York Giants (17th)

The danger was always there with how people viewed “JPP”. As good as his 2011 season was the emphasis placed on his sack numbers were always going to come back to bite him. And while it’s true he didn’t have quite the same impact as he did when the Giants won it all, it shouldn’t take away from a tremendously complete season he put forward. Excellent against the run, there’s no shame in the 55 QB disruptions he managed.

Best Performance: Week 14 versus New Orleans, +6.0

Key Stat: His 30 defensive stops in the run game were the third-most of any 4-3 defensive end.

38. Alfred Morris, RB, Washington Redskins (Unranked)

Sixth-round rookies are simply not meant to be this good. While many want to attribute the success of Morris to a scheme that benefited him, that’s unfair to a player who finished third in the league in yards after contact and finished third in the league in forced missed tackles in the running game. He didn’t offer much as a receiver, but you can look past that when you measure the joy the Redskins had running the ball with him.

Best Performance: Week 17 versus Dallas, +4.2

Key Stat: His 24 runs over 15 yards were second-most in the entire league.

31. Robert Griffin III, QB, Washington Redskins (Unranked)

Turning the Redskins from a punch line to a relevant contender, RG3 was the dose of energy and talent that this team desperately needed. His play on the field was nothing short of his exceptional, with the Redskins putting him in an offense that made full use of his skill set from Day 1. The end result was a player who was extremely accurate and extremely productive, and well worth such a prominent ranking.

Best Performance: Week 6 versus Minnesota, +5.1

Key Stat: With an Accuracy Percentage of 75% under pressure, RG3 was tops of all quarterbacks.

6. Evan Mathis, LG, Philadelphia Eagles (18th)

It’s easy to ignore guards, but when you’re looking at an ‘all players created equal’ list, then you simply have to have Mathis this high. The Eagles may have struggled, but the continued brilliance of Mathis was unavoidable. He might not have the same impact blocks as others, but his continued ability to create movement at the point of attack makes Mathis the best guard in the league.

Best Performance: Week 12 versus Carolina, +6.8

Key Stat: Earned a positive grade for his run blocking in all bar one game.

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 12:42 PM
Well you can't judge a player before he got hurt. If that's the case then Nicks should be on the list.
They judged him on the nine games he played. Nicks barely made an impact on the season -- Harvin did.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 12:45 PM
They him on the nine games he played. Nicks barely had an impact on the season, Harvin did.So..it's about impact and not production? Nicks had better stats than Harvin as well..

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 01:05 PM
So..it's about impact and not production? Nicks had better stats than Harvin as well..
It's about which players played well. Harvin did; Nicks didn't.

Harvin finished with 677 yards receiving, 574 yards returning and 96 yards rushing with 5 total touchdowns.

Nicks' stats are nowhere near.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 01:07 PM
It's about which players played well. Harvin did; Nicks didn't.

Harvin finished with 677 yards receiving, 574 yards returning and 96 yards rushing with 5 total touchdowns.

Nicks' stats are nowhere near.But in the context of Cruz then....

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 01:13 PM
But in the context of Cruz then....
He just wasn't as good as the others. Note: the players listed are all #1-type receivers.

giantscolombia
05-07-2013, 01:15 PM
He just wasn't as good as the others.
Based on what?
not stats... not on impact. Arguably if we didnt have Cruz and Nicks was as injured. we wouldnt amount to anything.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 01:15 PM
He just wasn't as good as the others.I'm saying he could replace Harvin.

The rest of the guys, forget it...he was nowhere near as good. But Harvin was a mystery to me.

giantsfan420
05-07-2013, 01:24 PM
that was the 1 aspect of elis game that imo actually took a step back. the completion % under pressure. in 2011 and even the first half of 2012, Eli was playing better than any QB when under pressure (according to PFF article they did on the subject). Last year, right around when Nov. rolled in, Eli wasn't handling the pressure nearly as well. Some games he's get back to the level I expected, but for the most part, the 2nd half of last season, if ELi were able to handle the pressure of the pass rush a bit better (to the level he showed he can) we woulda made the playoffs imo.

but this article is also telling bc we all know eli did not have as good a year as he's capable. but some posters here, and its no secret who those posters are, took eli's year and devalued it/him waaayyyyyy too unfairly. if you went by the comments they make, we should have a legit qb battle in training camp lol...eli was the 8th best QB according to PFF while playing at 75% of his capability. I expect a big year from Eli this season, I bet he recognized the issues under pressure the 2nd half of the season and corrects it.

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 01:25 PM
I'm saying he could replace Harvin.

The rest of the guys, forget it...he was nowhere near as good. But Harvin was a mystery to me.
Yeah it's an interesting selection. On Harvin's description it says that some people wanted him even higher on the list.

BigBlue1971
05-07-2013, 01:28 PM
Really? One could argue that all of those guys where better.

that's true!

pino
05-07-2013, 03:25 PM
Really? One could argue that all of those guys where better.

Really? Even Boldin?

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 03:31 PM
Really? Even Boldin?Boldin had a fantastic year.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 03:34 PM
But this is a list of the top reveivers in 2012. Notice how Larry Fitzgerald isn't on there. It's all based on 2012 production.He had no QB though. Seriously, they had no QB. If he has one throwing to him he is a great WR.

gumby74
05-07-2013, 03:35 PM
that was the 1 aspect of elis game that imo actually took a step back. the completion % under pressure. in 2011 and even the first half of 2012, Eli was playing better than any QB when under pressure (according to PFF article they did on the subject). Last year, right around when Nov. rolled in, Eli wasn't handling the pressure nearly as well. Some games he's get back to the level I expected, but for the most part, the 2nd half of last season, if ELi were able to handle the pressure of the pass rush a bit better (to the level he showed he can) we woulda made the playoffs imo.

but this article is also telling bc we all know eli did not have as good a year as he's capable. but some posters here, and its no secret who those posters are, took eli's year and devalued it/him waaayyyyyy too unfairly. if you went by the comments they make, we should have a legit qb battle in training camp lol...eli was the 8th best QB according to PFF while playing at 75% of his capability. I expect a big year from Eli this season, I bet he recognized the issues under pressure the 2nd half of the season and corrects it.

Say what? I haven't seen a single post that says that.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 03:37 PM
He had no QB though. Seriously, they had no QB. If he has one throwing to him he is a great WR.Yeah I'm not disputing that. It's only basing production off the 2012 season only.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 03:45 PM
This lists are not perfect that's for sure. Some guys make it on past accomplishments and some do not. Nicks is a top 10 WR. He just wasn't last year because of injury.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 03:47 PM
This lists are not perfect that's for sure. Some guys make it on past accomplishments and some do not. Nicks is a top 10 WR. He just wasn't last year because of injury.I was actually saying Cruz should have made it in instead of Harvin. Based off of 2012, Cruz was the more productive receiver.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 03:56 PM
Harvin was putting up MVP type numbers though.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:00 PM
Harvin was putting up MVP type numbers though....Before he got injured?

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 04:05 PM
Yeah. Nicks had that one great game and that was it. He never made that much of an impact the rest of the season. Plus, Harvin didn't have as good a QB throwing to him.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:07 PM
Yeah. Nicks had that one great game and that was it. He never made that much of an impact the rest of the season. Plus, Harvin didn't have as good a QB throwing to him.I'm not talking about Nicks replacing him, I'm talking about Cruz replacing him.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 04:12 PM
Yeah but Harvin gave enough of a sample last year o show what he could have done with a full season. No reason to penalize him for getting hurt. Now with Nicks, he has proven that he is a great WR but one game last year was not enough to give him that recognition last year.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 04:13 PM
looks like all X's and no slot recievers.....

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:28 PM
Yeah but Harvin gave enough of a sample last year o show what he could have done with a full season. No reason to penalize him for getting hurt. Now with Nicks, he has proven that he is a great WR but one game last year was not enough to give him that recognition last year.But it wasn't a full season, a sample is not enough.

Why are you still talking about Nicks? Lol I'm confused..

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 04:33 PM
Why penalize him though when discussing the best WR's? He was on pace to possibly be the MVP without a great QB throwing to him. An injury happened. It's not like he just slowed down and it's not like he hasn't been good since being drafted.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:37 PM
Why penalize him though when discussing the best WR's? He was on pace to possibly be the MVP without a great QB throwing to him. An injury happened. It's not like he just slowed down and it's not like he hasn't been good since being drafted.Because I'm saying Cruz was better than him. Nobody can predict if he were to keep it up. It's unfortunate that he got injured, but we can't play the guessing game.

Cruz had over 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns to Harvin's 677 yards and 5 touchdowns. Cruz had a more productive season.
Also, they don't take in account the QB play. As far as I'm concerned..Eli had a poor season and Cruz was able to still produce.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 04:48 PM
Harvin actually had better numbers but not at WR alone. He played 9 games and had 677 yards. There is no reason to think he could not have kept up the pace without injury. Also, even though El was not at his bets last year he was still better than Ponder.

blue_truth
05-07-2013, 04:52 PM
Really? One could argue that all of those guys where better.

agreed, with the exception of WAYNE and BOLDIN.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:59 PM
Harvin actually had better numbers but not at WR alone. He played 9 games and had 677 yards. There is no reason to think he could not have kept up the pace without injury. Also, even though El was not at his bets last year he was still better than Ponder.I look at results and not "what could have been", but to each his own.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 05:02 PM
Well he results are that he had more production while playing less.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 05:04 PM
Well he results are that he had more production while playing less.I guess so.

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 05:32 PM
It's funny how winning cures everything. All those guys listed with the exception of two where in the playoffs. Surely that plays a part in it. Johnson made it because he is the best and set a record and Jackson had a great year even though they didn't make the playoffs.

jintsfan666
05-07-2013, 05:46 PM
Really? One could argue that all of those guys where better.

Absolutely.

Broadway Blue
05-07-2013, 05:59 PM
cruz got snubbed

Cruz should had been at least at the top 80 spot

slipknottin
05-07-2013, 06:00 PM
PFF has the strangest man crush on Evan Mathis. 6th best player in the league? Lmao.

He fit FA and only got a 5 year 25 mil deal. Good money for a guard, but its not like teams were fighting over this supposed beast of a player.

slipknottin
05-07-2013, 06:01 PM
agreed, with the exception of WAYNE and BOLDIN.

uh, reggie wayne had a 106 catch 1300 yard season.

As for Boldin, 380 yards and 4 TDs in the playoffs will do that.

brad
05-07-2013, 06:26 PM
I'm not a stat guy, so do we assume all of the receivers had better stas than Cruz?

Cruz ranked 15th in yards
9th in TDs
56 in YPC

Reference (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards)

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 06:33 PM
Because I'm saying Cruz was better than him. Nobody can predict if he were to keep it up. It's unfortunate that he got injured, but we can't play the guessing game.

Cruz had over 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns to Harvin's 677 yards and 5 touchdowns. Cruz had a more productive season.
It's about quality of play, not stats. If it was purely about stats, Cruz still wouldn't make it in.

Notice how Mike Williams and Eric Decker aren't listed either. Their numbers were close to Cruz's.

NWKEffectElement
05-07-2013, 06:51 PM
1 could argue Cruz is better than 75% of the 1s on the list!

That's a huge reach.

Hooligans
05-07-2013, 07:31 PM
WOW! like honestly. Not trying to be a troll but seriously? Cruz was a top 10 receiver last year!

Cruz did drop a lot of passes, showed some alligator arms and disappeared late in the season.....what became clear is that he is a slot WR ONLY.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 07:33 PM
Cruz ranked 15th in yards
9th in TDs
56 in YPC

Reference (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYards)

Thanks.

GameTime
05-07-2013, 07:34 PM
Cruz did drop a lot of passes, showed some alligator arms and disappeared late in the season.....what became clear is that he is a slot WR ONLY.

ehhh.....wrong again......

brad
05-07-2013, 08:25 PM
Thanks.

No problem :)

brad
05-07-2013, 08:29 PM
ehhh.....wrong again......

He was tied for second in most dropped passes

Reference (http://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232)

Although, I don't necessarily agree with the poster you responded to, there is some basis for what he said.

TheAnalyst
05-07-2013, 09:25 PM
The wide receivers were:

Andre Johnson, Texans
Calvin Johnson, Lions
Vincent Jackson, Buccaneers
Brandon Marshall, Bears
AJ Green, Bengals
Demaryius Thomas, Broncos
Roddy White, Falcons
Percy Harvin, Vikings
Reggie Wayne, Colts
Anquan Boldin, Ravens
Julio Jones, Falcons

Uhhmmm, Larry Fitzgerald?

So does this mean we can pay Cruz peanuts now?

Flip Empty
05-07-2013, 09:31 PM
Uhhmmm, Larry Fitzgerald?
He was invisible last season (through no fault of his own).

Buddy333
05-07-2013, 11:08 PM
Uhhmmm, Larry Fitzgerald? So does this mean we can pay Cruz peanuts now?Huh?