PDA

View Full Version : Move On Already The NFL has changed its take on player value



Red Dog
05-07-2013, 03:05 PM
Sorry for length - Perhaps with all the time that has already passed trying to make a deal with Victor Cruz, to no avail as yet, has me thinking the two sides aren't close because nothing positive if being said or released and too much time gone by. The Giants and the fans need to "say that's it" to him and his agent JayZ who is nothing more than a entertainer as far as I know wjho wants to get into being a sports agent.
Let's think about what happens if Cruz plays out his contract and next year Cruz is a URFA. Cruz has already shown his lack of experience and immaturity in this matter of negotiating and wouldn't be the first uyoiungster to be led down the path of bust. He is with his 3rd agent during this one negotiation. If I'm the front office I gotta think, who will be next I'm talking with, and when will it happen. Cruz chose JZ because he ls his favorite entertainer. Not a good way to choose Mr Cruz!
If Cruz plays out the final year of his contract he will have to play at the top of his game in order to increase or, at the least, maintain, his present value established by the league and not himself. That being the case. I would think, Cruz and agent have approached the "this is it" offer, "take or leave it" stage.
I understand and agree with a player wanting top dollar while he can earn it, but Cruz should remember the slot receiver he replaced, Smith, who turned down a very legitamate offer to opt for free agency then got himself hurt and wound up with 1 year minimum deal (1 Miilion) from the Eagles and hasn't been heard from since, and more recently the league's top slot guy, Welker, and what he signed for sort of set the value range.
Here's what Cruz needs to understand. His agent has a lot of money from entertainment earnings and will continue to have a lot of money after Cruz is out of football. Cruz should also realize self-inflated value holdouts may hold out to garner a million or two more, but when talking 5 years or so at 6-8 million that's a lot of coinage to risk, and possibly lose. Holding out for comparitively little, and in the end may not recoup losses should things go wrong during the negotiating. However, his agent will still continue to earn money even if Cruz should suffer a similar fate as Smith did, or if he has a few more drops this year, each drop will be worth a $million during next year's negotiation should he hold out..
I believe the NFL owners have drawn lines in the "financial sand".proven by the treatment of veteran players over the past couple of years, and this year especially, and the establishing and abiding by position value over worth to the team vaalue. These two business decisions have caused young players to see the light and try to get it all at once, and negotuiate higher guranteed money. Fans can't blame either side in this issue, but both sides and agents have to have a "sensible win-win" final figure or football as we know it goes to a product level far less than it is now.

IF the Giants were to trade Cruz now with one year left on his contract, what's his value in draft picks, certainly isn't a number one. That was also very telling, Cruz is a veteran that's not worth a roundr 1 draft pick, and worth less now.

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 03:07 PM
I respectfully disagree with everything you have written.

ImElectric2
05-07-2013, 03:07 PM
Uuuhhhhh.......

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 03:15 PM
Sorry for length - Perhaps with all the time that has already passed trying to make a deal with Victor Cruz, to no avail as yet, has me thinking the two sides aren't close because nothing positive if being said or released and too much time gone by. The Giants and the fans need to "say that's it" to him and his agent JayZ who is nothing more than a entertainer as far as I know wjho wants to get into being a sports agent.
Let's think about what happens if Cruz plays out his contract and next year Cruz is a URFA. Cruz has already shown his lack of experience and immaturity in this matter of negotiating and wouldn't be the first uyoiungster to be led down the path of bust. He is with his 3rd agent during this one negotiation. If I'm the front office I gotta think, who will be next I'm talking with, and when will it happen. Cruz chose JZ because he ls his favorite entertainer. Not a good way to choose Mr Cruz!
If Cruz plays out the final year of his contract he will have to play at the top of his game in order to increase or, at the least, maintain, his present value established by the league and not himself. That being the case. I would think, Cruz and agent have approached the "this is it" offer, "take or leave it" stage.
I understand and agree with a player wanting top dollar while he can earn it, but Cruz should remember the slot receiver he replaced, Smith, who turned down a very legitamate offer to opt for free agency then got himself hurt and wound up with 1 year minimum deal (1 Miilion) from the Eagles and hasn't been heard from since, and more recently the league's top slot guy, Welker, and what he signed for sort of set the value range.
Here's what Cruz needs to understand. His agent has a lot of money from entertainment earnings and will continue to have a lot of money after Cruz is out of football. Cruz should also realize self-inflated value holdouts may hold out to garner a million or two more, but when talking 5 years or so at 6-8 million that's a lot of coinage to risk, and possibly lose. Holding out for comparitively little, and in the end may not recoup losses should things go wrong during the negotiating. However, his agent will still continue to earn money even if Cruz should suffer a similar fate as Smith did, or if he has a few more drops this year, each drop will be worth a $million during next year's negotiation should he hold out..
I believe the NFL owners have drawn lines in the "financial sand".proven by the treatment of veteran players over the past couple of years, and this year especially, and the establishing and abiding by position value over worth to the team vaalue. These two business decisions have caused young players to see the light and try to get it all at once, and negotuiate higher guranteed money. Fans can't blame either side in this issue, but both sides and agents have to have a "sensible win-win" final figure or football as we know it goes to a product level far less than it is now.

IF the Giants were to trade Cruz now with one year left on his contract, what's his value in draft picks, certainly isn't a number one. That was also very telling, Cruz is a veteran that's not worth a roundr 1 draft pick, and worth less now.

Oddly enough, John Mara just had something positive to say which can be found in yet another Cruz thread. Sorry to disappoint.

PS His agent isn't Jay-Z. His agent is Tom Condon. Jay-Z has not been certified to represent NFL players.

DownWitJPP
05-07-2013, 03:18 PM
umm Jay-Z isn't Cruz's agent...Tom Condon is. oops Ro beat me to it lol

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 03:20 PM
umm Jay-Z isn't Cruz's agent...Tom Condon is. oops Ro beat me to it lol

We can say of over and over and some just refuse to acknowledge the facts. It's just the S L O W part of the almost pre-season requiring a lot of deep thinking.

jomo
05-07-2013, 03:30 PM
Jay-Z is not his agent. He is a rain maker for the firm. All the strategic stuff and legal stuff and negotiating stuff is being done by professionals. Team Cruz can say all they want about getting him what he's worth but that pre-supposes he's an UFA which he is not. By definition, he'll need to take less for a long term deal because he is not free to walk. That won't come until next year and alot of things can happen in a year both positive and negative. If I were advising him, I would tell him to take it to the wire to gain whatever little leverage is left in terms of hype and training camp coming etc. Then sign the deal.

Red Dog
05-07-2013, 03:42 PM
My mistake about JZ being the negotiator, but the fact that Cruz wants him is not in Cruz's best interest because of his inexperience in these matters and shows Cruz being somewhat immkature because he himself stated the reason he wanted JZ. Disagreeing with all I've written shows no rationale or awareness for what is going on in the current NFL, and what has gone on with veterans being cut before payouts, and players like Smith getting sucked up into thinking that he was not expendable. Reese was right as rain on Smith with his more than sufficient offer at the time of negotiations as Reese was willing to pay for value and was proven very right not to increase it. Smith got hurt (read carreer gone) moved on to "disappearville" in Philly I love Cruz as a player, period. He's fun and he's good, but has his drops too. The post is my opinion as to the way things have developed with the NFL. The money-reins are being tightened. Look at players like Abraham cut and what has he lost in ability after a great year, other than his livelihood?

Morehead State
05-07-2013, 03:45 PM
I respectfully disagree with everything you have written.
You mean you actually read all of that?

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 03:48 PM
You mean you actually read all of that?As painful as it was to read, yes I did read it lol.

Kruunch
05-07-2013, 03:52 PM
Cruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uz!

(had to get my quota)

GameTime
05-07-2013, 03:52 PM
so basically you have no idea what is going on with Cruz, his agent Tom Condon, and the Giants...
thats what I got from your post.....

Mercury
05-07-2013, 04:48 PM
I think VC would be worth a second round pick at this point in his career. I wouldn't give up a first round on him, so I don't think many GMs would, especially with the large contract he is trying to obtain.

TCHOF
05-07-2013, 05:06 PM
Eh, come again?

BlueSanta
05-07-2013, 05:33 PM
I just hope our 2013 defense is as formidable as that that wall of text is to look at.

FBomb
05-07-2013, 06:57 PM
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRN1EGXbP6_TBNaUF1JCoQBkkZYFy2ZR ud8CH0I99ql0rbxrtLWww

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 07:26 PM
My mistake about JZ being the negotiator, but the fact that Cruz wants him is not in Cruz's best interest because of his inexperience in these matters and shows Cruz being somewhat immkature because he himself stated the reason he wanted JZ. Disagreeing with all I've written shows no rationale or awareness for what is going on in the current NFL, and what has gone on with veterans being cut before payouts, and players like Smith getting sucked up into thinking that he was not expendable. Reese was right as rain on Smith with his more than sufficient offer at the time of negotiations as Reese was willing to pay for value and was proven very right not to increase it. Smith got hurt (read carreer gone) moved on to "disappearville" in Philly I love Cruz as a player, period. He's fun and he's good, but has his drops too. The post is my opinion as to the way things have developed with the NFL. The money-reins are being tightened. Look at players like Abraham cut and what has he lost in ability after a great year, other than his livelihood?

You really aren't getting it. Jay-Z's Roc Nation represents Cruz's OFF FIELD interests. Tom Condon, of CAA, now affiliated with Roc Nation, represents Cruz with the NFL. We fans need to wait until something factual happens which will include a long term deal.

If Tom Condon could get some extra money out of Reese last season for Osi, this is going to happen and both sides will be able to claim victory.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 07:27 PM
I think VC would be worth a second round pick at this point in his career. I wouldn't give up a first round on him, so I don't think many GMs would, especially with the large contract he is trying to obtain.

How is that going to happen?

B&RWarrior
05-07-2013, 08:40 PM
This post is wrong in so many ways. RF has set you straight on most of the issues. Jay-Z is a great resource for a young player with an entreprenuerial spirit like Cruz. SS and Cruz are not really comparable.

Cruz hasn't missed anything except for voluntary workouts and he went to a throwing camp with Eli and Nicks VOLUNTARILY. Cruz can't mess up or go too far. If he held out until the 2 month of the season and then decided to sign, do you think Mara would say, "It's too late, my feelings are hurt."? I'll start to worry after the first month of the season and he still isn't signed and no other WR steps up in his place, but we are a long way from there.

ShakeandBake
05-07-2013, 08:57 PM
Oddly enough, John Mara just had something positive to say which can be found in yet another Cruz thread. Sorry to disappoint.

PS His agent isn't Jay-Z. His agent is Tom Condon. Jay-Z has not been certified to represent NFL players.

You actually have to get a certification to be an agent? Wow never knew that.....

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 09:04 PM
You actually have to get a certification to be an agent? Wow never knew that.....

Yes, and it makes sense given the obscene amounts of money players make, the CBA, etc.

ShakeandBake
05-07-2013, 09:08 PM
Yes, and it makes sense given the obscene amounts of money players make, the CBA, etc.

Yeah it makes sense considering the strength of the player's union.

Drez
05-07-2013, 09:09 PM
.
thats what I got from your post.....I think I got syphilis from it.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 09:10 PM
I think I got syphilis from it.

That could be a first

Drez
05-07-2013, 09:13 PM
Yeah it makes sense considering the strength of the player's union.And it just makes sense.

Drez
05-07-2013, 09:14 PM
That could be a first What can I say, I'm a pioneer.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 09:21 PM
What can I say, I'm a pioneer.

Forge ahead

ShakeandBake
05-07-2013, 09:26 PM
And it just makes sense.

absolutely perfect sense

B&RWarrior
05-07-2013, 11:39 PM
And it just makes sense.

Yes, it just makes sense. Professional football players are not elite businessmen or contract negotiators they are elite athletes. You definitely need to have some kind of standard for the level of representation you receive as a player.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 07:47 AM
Yes, it just makes sense. Professional football players are not elite businessmen or contract negotiators they are elite athletes. You definitely need to have some kind of standard for the level of representation you receive as a player.

When you think how many of them squander their fortunes and end up wondering what happened.

Red Dog
05-08-2013, 11:56 AM
There were several other NFL related issues within the post, but nothing it seems is as important as searching every post for what may be a mistake or a differing opinion and then get off the subject(s) and quickly attack the poster, and that is what this Board has become, Express only the opinions of the criticizers and agree with their draft choices only, or else. I have a life and don't patrol this Board religiously. When I'm wrong I'll take my lumps, but some of those who respond, not only to my posts, but others as well, need to "get along with others" If a poster is wrong or grammar doesn't match your English professor's teaching in whatever college you may bave attended. Also make sure that poster is belittled for not having the same education level, and make sure that belitting is multiplied with every response post that follows. This Board is a "mixed multitude," but not respective of that many want only to respond negatively forcing all that follow to go off the original subject matter. MY ONLY SUGGESTION: DON'T REPLY TO POSTS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER. OR GRAMMAR IS NOT UP TO YOUR STANDARD, AND THAT WAY THE UNAPPROVED AND UNACCEPTED WILL GO AWAY SILENTLY REJECTED as I'm sure many old-time posters have done. BTW some of my post was incorrect because of my misunderstanding regarding who Cruz's agent is, but regaardless, he is still unsigned and the amazing thing is those who cry about the cap and who should get paid what and who should cut their contracts are the same one's crying gfor Cruz to get hiis 12 miilion (That amount from NFLAM)

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 12:32 PM
There were several other NFL related issues within the post, but nothing it seems is as important as searching every post for what may be a mistake or a differing opinion and then get off the subject(s) and quickly attack the poster, and that is what this Board has become, Express only the opinions of the criticizers and agree with their draft choices only, or else. I have a life and don't patrol this Board religiously. When I'm wrong I'll take my lumps, but some of those who respond, not only to my posts, but others as well, need to "get along with others" If a poster is wrong or grammar doesn't match your English professor's teaching in whatever college you may bave attended. Also make sure that poster is belittled for not having the same education level, and make sure that belitting is multiplied with every response post that follows. This Board is a "mixed multitude," but not respective of that many want only to respond negatively forcing all that follow to go off the original subject matter. MY ONLY SUGGESTION: DON'T REPLY TO POSTS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER. OR GRAMMAR IS NOT UP TO YOUR STANDARD, AND THAT WAY THE UNAPPROVED AND UNACCEPTED WILL GO AWAY SILENTLY REJECTED as I'm sure many old-time posters have done. BTW some of my post was incorrect because of my misunderstanding regarding who Cruz's agent is, but regaardless, he is still unsigned and the amazing thing is those who cry about the cap and who should get paid what and who should cut their contracts are the same one's crying gfor Cruz to get hiis 12 miilion (That amount from NFLAM)


A word of advice, if I may. Most members just won't read through an entire lengthy post. They will look at the subject line and perhaps one or two sentences and then decide whether to respond or not.

You would be better served, and understood, if you would develop shorter paragraphs, properly separated. This isn't intended to be a lesson on sentence structure, composition, or grammar, but if you want people to read and understand your posts, you need to help make it easier.

Kruunch
05-08-2013, 12:38 PM
There were several other NFL related issues within the post, but nothing it seems is as important as searching every post for what may be a mistake or a differing opinion and then get off the subject(s) and quickly attack the poster, and that is what this Board has become, Express only the opinions of the criticizers and agree with their draft choices only, or else. I have a life and don't patrol this Board religiously. When I'm wrong I'll take my lumps, but some of those who respond, not only to my posts, but others as well, need to "get along with others" If a poster is wrong or grammar doesn't match your English professor's teaching in whatever college you may bave attended. Also make sure that poster is belittled for not having the same education level, and make sure that belitting is multiplied with every response post that follows. This Board is a "mixed multitude," but not respective of that many want only to respond negatively forcing all that follow to go off the original subject matter. MY ONLY SUGGESTION: DON'T REPLY TO POSTS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER. OR GRAMMAR IS NOT UP TO YOUR STANDARD, AND THAT WAY THE UNAPPROVED AND UNACCEPTED WILL GO AWAY SILENTLY REJECTED as I'm sure many old-time posters have done. BTW some of my post was incorrect because of my misunderstanding regarding who Cruz's agent is, but regaardless, he is still unsigned and the amazing thing is those who cry about the cap and who should get paid what and who should cut their contracts are the same one's crying gfor Cruz to get hiis 12 miilion (That amount from NFLAM)

I refuse to read this until you learn PARAGRAPHS!

JB456
05-08-2013, 12:45 PM
I refuse to read this until you learn PARAGRAPHS!

Yeah, spaces to sperate paragraphs are your friend. Please...

Hooligans
05-08-2013, 12:53 PM
Sorry for length - Perhaps with all the time that has already passed trying to make a deal with Victor Cruz, to no avail as yet, has me thinking the two sides aren't close because nothing positive if being said or released and too much time gone by. The Giants and the fans need to "say that's it" to him and his agent JayZ who is nothing more than a entertainer as far as I know wjho wants to get into being a sports agent.
Let's think about what happens if Cruz plays out his contract and next year Cruz is a URFA. Cruz has already shown his lack of experience and immaturity in this matter of negotiating and wouldn't be the first uyoiungster to be led down the path of bust. He is with his 3rd agent during this one negotiation. If I'm the front office I gotta think, who will be next I'm talking with, and when will it happen. Cruz chose JZ because he ls his favorite entertainer. Not a good way to choose Mr Cruz!
If Cruz plays out the final year of his contract he will have to play at the top of his game in order to increase or, at the least, maintain, his present value established by the league and not himself. That being the case. I would think, Cruz and agent have approached the "this is it" offer, "take or leave it" stage.
I understand and agree with a player wanting top dollar while he can earn it, but Cruz should remember the slot receiver he replaced, Smith, who turned down a very legitamate offer to opt for free agency then got himself hurt and wound up with 1 year minimum deal (1 Miilion) from the Eagles and hasn't been heard from since, and more recently the league's top slot guy, Welker, and what he signed for sort of set the value range.
Here's what Cruz needs to understand. His agent has a lot of money from entertainment earnings and will continue to have a lot of money after Cruz is out of football. Cruz should also realize self-inflated value holdouts may hold out to garner a million or two more, but when talking 5 years or so at 6-8 million that's a lot of coinage to risk, and possibly lose. Holding out for comparitively little, and in the end may not recoup losses should things go wrong during the negotiating. However, his agent will still continue to earn money even if Cruz should suffer a similar fate as Smith did, or if he has a few more drops this year, each drop will be worth a $million during next year's negotiation should he hold out..
I believe the NFL owners have drawn lines in the "financial sand".proven by the treatment of veteran players over the past couple of years, and this year especially, and the establishing and abiding by position value over worth to the team vaalue. These two business decisions have caused young players to see the light and try to get it all at once, and negotuiate higher guranteed money. Fans can't blame either side in this issue, but both sides and agents have to have a "sensible win-win" final figure or football as we know it goes to a product level far less than it is now.

IF the Giants were to trade Cruz now with one year left on his contract, what's his value in draft picks, certainly isn't a number one. That was also very telling, Cruz is a veteran that's not worth a roundr 1 draft pick, and worth less now.


I agree and the Giants will agree with you soon if Cruz continues his delusional crusade. Cruz is running out of time and the Giants are almost out of patience.......Let's see how Cruz does as a Raider......and the Giants get an additional second round 2014 pick!

Imgrate
05-08-2013, 12:56 PM
I agree and the Giants will agree with you soon if Cruz continues his delusional crusade. Cruz is running out of time and the Giants are almost out of patience.......Let's see how Cruz does as a Raider......and the Giants get an additional second round 2014 pick!How obvious of a troll does this guy need to be before he is banned?

TCHOF
05-08-2013, 01:21 PM
How obvious of a troll does this guy need to be before he is banned?

Trolls provide most of the fun around here. Lighten up.

Imgrate
05-08-2013, 01:33 PM
Trolls provide most of the fun around here. Lighten up.I know, just sayin

B&RWarrior
05-08-2013, 01:42 PM
When you think how many of them squander their fortunes and end up wondering what happened.

I blame that on poor investment. Sure there spending habits are atrocious, but worst case scenario is your making $390K/ year, so you can live a little and be okay (understatement of the year). The bigger problem is investing in or starting these high risk businesses with no business savvy. When you are bringing in that kind of income your focus should be capital preservation not chasing alpha.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 01:48 PM
I blame that on poor investment. Sure there spending habits are atrocious, but worst case scenario is your making $390K/ year, so you can live a little and be okay (understatement of the year). The bigger problem is investing in or starting these high risk businesses with no business savvy. When you are bringing in that kid of income your focus should be capital preservation not chasing alpha.

It's the one area where players REALLY need sound advice.

GameTime
05-08-2013, 01:56 PM
There were several other NFL related issues within the post, but nothing it seems is as important as searching every post for what may be a mistake or a differing opinion and then get off the subject(s) and quickly attack the poster, and that is what this Board has become, Express only the opinions of the criticizers and agree with their draft choices only, or else. I have a life and don't patrol this Board religiously. When I'm wrong I'll take my lumps, but some of those who respond, not only to my posts, but others as well, need to "get along with others" If a poster is wrong or grammar doesn't match your English professor's teaching in whatever college you may bave attended. Also make sure that poster is belittled for not having the same education level, and make sure that belitting is multiplied with every response post that follows. This Board is a "mixed multitude," but not respective of that many want only to respond negatively forcing all that follow to go off the original subject matter. MY ONLY SUGGESTION: DON'T REPLY TO POSTS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SUBJECT MATTER. OR GRAMMAR IS NOT UP TO YOUR STANDARD, AND THAT WAY THE UNAPPROVED AND UNACCEPTED WILL GO AWAY SILENTLY REJECTED as I'm sure many old-time posters have done. BTW some of my post was incorrect because of my misunderstanding regarding who Cruz's agent is, but regaardless, he is still unsigned and the amazing thing is those who cry about the cap and who should get paid what and who should cut their contracts are the same one's crying gfor Cruz to get hiis 12 miilion (That amount from NFLAM)
RD....
You are trying too hard wth your in depth analysis. I have noticed it on other threads or posts you have had as well. Not a knock just an observation.
The negotiations behind closed doors with Cruz are better left without speculation since we, as the public, and fans have no real data to work with.
Why waste time with scenarios that may never happen.
Cruz will or wont sign. Thats all we really know for sure.

byron
05-08-2013, 02:37 PM
RD....
You are trying too hard wth your in depth analysis. I have noticed it on other threads or posts you have had as well. Not a knock just an observation.
The negotiations behind closed doors with Cruz are better left without speculation since we, as the public, and fans have no real data to work with.
Why waste time with scenarios that may never happen.
Cruz will or wont sign. Thats all we really know for sure. there a respectful answer.... props man... something others here can't seem to do seems that's what red dog was looking for respectful discussion take it or leave it....

TheAnalyst
05-08-2013, 07:06 PM
umm Jay-Z isn't Cruz's agent...Tom Condon is. oops Ro beat me to it lol I got 99 clients but Victor Cruz ain't one

Rudyy
05-08-2013, 07:08 PM
I got 99 clients but Victor Cruz ain't oneHit me

Drez
05-08-2013, 07:18 PM
I agree and the Giants will agree with you soon if Cruz continues his delusional crusade. Cruz is running out of time and the Giants are almost out of patience.......Let's see how Cruz does as a Raider......and the Giants get an additional second round 2014 pick!How would we get an additional 2nd in 2014?

danielboone
05-08-2013, 09:20 PM
Why do you blame Cruz for the situation? He is making the decisions that he thinks are best for him and he is using a respected, experienced agent. He is not an immature, irrational youngster not based in reality as you have wanted to make him out to be. Reese is making the decisions that he thinks are best for the Giants. Not hard to understand why those two things might not be the same at this moment in time. No need to blame either side.

My take is that some fans just want some relief from their worry about not having the best receiving corps and they turn on Cruz because he won't provide that relief by sacrificing his right to make the decisions he thinks are best for him. You think he should play for the Giants for whatever Reese is offering although you don't even know what is being offered. You're not thinking about Cruz at all. You believe Cruz will turn out worse for himself if he doesn't take Reese's offer. Well, if you are right, Cruz will be the loser and the Giants will be the winners as they will not have paid him. So the Giants can't lose. If he takes the offer, they get what they want and, if he doesn't take the offer, according to you, the Giants will have made the right decision anyway and Cruz will end up the loser. So why are you ranting on him. The Giants have the upper hand here.

But, what really worries you are two possibilities. (1) Cruz gets more money out of Reese thus proving he used the right negotiating strategy after all. (2) Cruz ends up going to another team and making more money and playing big time elsewhere. Both those scenarios would prove you were wrong. In both of those Cruz would have made the right decision. In the first one, the Giants would also have made the right decision. But you don't care about that. What you are really saying is you don't want Cruz to be right. What have you got against Cruz?

Red Dog
05-09-2013, 09:49 AM
"But, what really worries you are two possibilities. (1) Cruz gets more money out of Reese thus proving he used the right negotiating strategy after all. (2) Cruz ends up going to another team and making more money and playing big time elsewhere. Both those scenarios would prove you were wrong. In both of those Cruz would have made the right decision. In the first one, the Giants would also have made the right decision. But you don't care about that. What you are really saying is you don't want Cruz to be right. What have you got against Cruz?"

HUH! I don't care what they wind up paying Cruz. I'm just weary of players not recognizing the changes made by the owners as stated in my original post and continuing to believe there talent places them above what the ownderes have obviously decreed. The owners have developed a top pay scale for position and although some may exceed that number others won't. Cruz may exceed that number somewwhat but not a ridiculous amount above the "position scale."

Players need to recognize if not already that large contracts mean early cuts especially when combined with injuries forcing them to mis 3-4 games in a season or the whole season. Players contracts with the new NFL of cut cut cut need to be going arter larger up front and/or guaranteed money

I believe some players use the negotiations for publicity and attention getting, which seems to be the prevalent disease among receivers in the NFL. Also. that behavior, if true, just brings them down to TO's level. .

TCHOF
05-09-2013, 10:28 AM
"But, what really worries you are two possibilities. (1) Cruz gets more money out of Reese thus proving he used the right negotiating strategy after all. (2) Cruz ends up going to another team and making more money and playing big time elsewhere. Both those scenarios would prove you were wrong. In both of those Cruz would have made the right decision. In the first one, the Giants would also have made the right decision. But you don't care about that. What you are really saying is you don't want Cruz to be right. What have you got against Cruz?"

HUH! I don't care what they wind up paying Cruz. I'm just weary of players not recognizing the changes made by the owners as stated in my original post and continuing to believe there talent places them above what the ownderes have obviously decreed. The owners have developed a top pay scale for position and although some may exceed that number others won't. Cruz may exceed that number somewwhat but not a ridiculous amount above the "position scale."

Players need to recognize if not already that large contracts mean early cuts especially when combined with injuries forcing them to mis 3-4 games in a season or the whole season. Players contracts with the new NFL of cut cut cut need to be going arter larger up front and/or guaranteed money

I believe some players use the negotiations for publicity and attention getting, which seems to be the prevalent disease among receivers in the NFL. Also. that behavior, if true, just brings them down to TO's level. .

So now you are comparing Cruz to TO?? Get a grip.

GameTime
05-09-2013, 10:29 AM
I believe some players use the negotiations for publicity and attention getting, which seems to be the prevalent disease among receivers in the NFL. Also. that behavior, if true, just brings them down to TO's level. .

Cruz's negotiations certainly have not gotten the media biltz at all really. As I dont like to speculate but I guess I will.....I think possibly the teams, if any, that offered perhaps more than the Giants are not contenders or still have young or unproven system or QBs. He may be weighing $$ vs NFL success in terms of potential championships. He got a taste of the SB and IMO he wants it again.

Red Dog
05-09-2013, 10:41 AM
"So now you are comparing Cruz to TO?? Get a grip"

HUH!?????????????????????????

OK, it's time for me to abandon this thread becaause I have no need or desire to continue respons\ding to someone who has failed reading comprehension.

RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 10:53 AM
"So now you are comparing Cruz to TO?? Get a grip" HUH!????????????????????????? OK, it's time for me to abandon this thread becaause I have no need or desire to continue respons\ding to someone who has failed reading comprehension. That's probably a wise decision

FBomb
05-09-2013, 11:19 AM
It really is strange that someone would start a thread giving his passionate opinion on a subject and then be shocked that people are responding with passion. A LOT of posters (including myself) consider your opinion on the Cruz situaton a TOTAL over reaction and completely speculative. And you DID use a very broad brush when talking about Cruz and T.O.....whether you meant to or not....it is a very wide leap to connect the two.

Cruz has done nothing wrong......nothing. He's not holding out....he's not complaining in the media.....he's not calling his GM a "liar"....he's just using the tools he is given to get the best deal he can get. Do I wish he would sign it already? Absolutely!! It would give me piece of mind, he could start working out with Eli and, more importantly, it would put a stop to these asinine threads calling for Cruz's head.

A deal will be done in a few days....long term.....and all will be forgotten by YOU PEOPLE the first time Cruz breaks off a long TD run.....and you even remember that you ever had an issue with him.

Luckily, I will be around to remind you!!:rolleyes:

B&RWarrior
05-09-2013, 11:27 AM
I get what Red Dog is saying, but contract negotiations are not done in the spirit he describes. Players and their agents don't look at a FO's value for their abilities and readily accept it. If I'm a good FO I would put a lower offer than I am willing to accept to see if I can get a better deal than expected. It's a game of sorts, akin to extremely high stakes poker, if you will. Most players would receive a lot less money if they just take what they can get with NO PUSHBACK.

None of these negotiation bares an weight on the players as people. Your not a bad guy for negotiating a contract. If 99.9% of posters on this board possessed the unique physical talent that these NFL players did I'm willing to bet you wouldn't just take what was given. You'd scratch and claw and fight for top dollar. It would be un-American not to.

RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 11:29 AM
I get what Red Dog is saying, but contract negotiations are not done in the spirit he describes. Players and their agents don't look at a FO's value for their abilities and readily accept it. If I'm a good FO I would put a lower offer than I am willing to accept to see if I can get a better deal than expected. It's a game of sorts, akin to extremely high stakes poker, if you will. Most players would receive a lot less money if they just take what they can get with NO PUSHBACK. None of these negotiation bares an weight on the players as people. Your not a bad guy for negotiating a contract. If 99.9% of posters on this board possessed the unique physical talent that these NFL players did I'm willing to bet you wouldn't just take what was given. You'd scratch and claw and fight for top dollar. It would be un-American not to. Well said

Morehead State
05-09-2013, 12:26 PM
It really is strange that someone would start a thread giving his passionate opinion on a subject and then be shocked that people are responding with passion. A LOT of posters (including myself) consider your opinion on the Cruz situaton a TOTAL over reaction and completely speculative. And you DID use a very broad brush when talking about Cruz and T.O.....whether you meant to or not....it is a very wide leap to connect the two.

Cruz has done nothing wrong......nothing. He's not holding out....he's not complaining in the media.....he's not calling his GM a "liar"....he's just using the tools he is given to get the best deal he can get. Do I wish he would sign it already? Absolutely!! It would give me piece of mind, he could start working out with Eli and, more importantly, it would put a stop to these asinine threads calling for Cruz's head.

A deal will be done in a few days....long term.....and all will be forgotten by YOU PEOPLE the first time Cruz breaks off a long TD run.....and you even remember that you ever had an issue with him.

Luckily, I will be around to remind you!!:rolleyes:

Lucky for us all.......

TCHOF
05-09-2013, 12:26 PM
"So now you are comparing Cruz to TO?? Get a grip"

HUH!?????????????????????????

OK, it's time for me to abandon this thread becaause I have no need or desire to continue respons\ding to someone who has failed reading comprehension.

No offense, but just because someone cannot comprehend what you have written does not mean that they have a reading comprehension problem. This appears to be a writing problem, not a reading one . . .. .

Morehead State
05-09-2013, 12:33 PM
No offense, but just because someone cannot comprehend what you have written does not mean that they have a reading comprehension problem. This appears to be a writing problem, not a reading one . . .. .
Some folks don't understand the art of concision.
Long winded, self indulgent posts are rarely read, and therefor have little or no impact.

B&RWarrior
05-09-2013, 12:49 PM
Some folks don't understand the art of concision.
Long winded, self indulgent posts are rarely read, and therefor have little or no impact.

Gmen 46 is coming for you now MS.

Morehead State
05-09-2013, 12:55 PM
Gmen 46 is coming for you now MS.
Eventually......they all do.

Red Dog
05-09-2013, 01:46 PM
Some folks don't understand the art of concision.
Long winded, self indulgent posts are rarely read, and therefor have little or no impact.

Well, obviously y'all read it and if not, you shouldn't comment. Passion I don't mind, lack of comprehension I do.

FBomb
05-09-2013, 01:51 PM
Lucky for us all.......

Damn Skippy!!!

RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 01:54 PM
Some folks don't understand the art of concision.
Long winded, self indulgent posts are rarely read, and therefor have little or no impact.

I was concised in the delivery room :cool:

Morehead State
05-09-2013, 02:04 PM
Well, obviously y'all read it and if not, you shouldn't comment. Passion I don't mind, lack of comprehension I do.
I confess. I didn't read most of it.
But generally I comment even where I don't.
But that's just me. I can't help myself.

RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 02:07 PM
I confess. I didn't read most of it.
But generally I comment even where I don't.
But that's just me. I can't help myself.

Confession is good for the soul

Dwinsballgames
05-09-2013, 02:21 PM
I was concised in the delivery room :cool:

That's funny, I was SUPERcized...:p

Morehead State
05-09-2013, 02:22 PM
Confession is good for the soul
Trust me RF......I have plenty to confess.

RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 02:26 PM
Trust me RF......I have plenty to confess.

I had a feeling

B&RWarrior
05-09-2013, 02:31 PM
I was concised in the delivery room :cool:

LMAO

gmen46
05-09-2013, 02:41 PM
Gmen 46 is coming for you now MS.

I am long winded, I cannot deny.

Maybe even self-indulgent. But that's a curious adjective to apply to any single poster on a fan message board. It seems to me that a forum dedicated to sports fan expressions of opinions is--by definition--a venue for self-indulgence.

But in any event, "I dream of the day when a (poster) is not judged by the length of his post, but by the strength of his argument" ;)

(Apologies to MLK)

Morehead State
05-09-2013, 02:55 PM
I am long winded, I cannot deny.

Maybe even self-indulgent. But that's a curious adjective to apply to any single poster on a fan message board. It seems to me that a forum dedicated to sports fan expressions of opinions is--by definition--a venue for self-indulgence.

But in any event, "I dream of the day when a (poster) is not judged by the length of his post, but by the strength of his argument" ;)

(Apologies to MLK)

I dream of a day when a poster is not judged by the length of his argument, but by the length of his ****.

gmen46
05-09-2013, 03:02 PM
I dream of a day when a poster is not judged by the length of his argument, but by the length of his ****.

I was trying to be modest.