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View Full Version : Giants looking to sign Victor Cruz long term over the next 7-10 days



Broadway Blue
05-07-2013, 04:45 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/07/new-york-giants-looking-to-sign-victor-cruz-long-term-over-the-next-7-10-days/

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:49 PM
That's interesting.

ryan12
05-07-2013, 04:51 PM
That's interesting.

is this true young lady?

Rudyy
05-07-2013, 04:53 PM
is this true young lady?I suppose. Cruz hasn't really mentioned anything to me yet. We actually sit back and laugh at all the "sources".

The good news is, once he gets his paycheck...we can buy more vans!!

UKAnt14
05-07-2013, 05:07 PM
Very interesting. Looks like we may finally, one way or another, be nearing an end to this saga and with all the positive talk from John Mara, I'm optimistic it will be good news.

Eli TO Shockey
05-07-2013, 05:21 PM
Uh oh. this has all the potential to get ugly.

DVision
05-07-2013, 05:33 PM
I suppose. Cruz hasn't really mentioned anything to me yet. We actually sit back and laugh at all the "sources".

The good news is, once he gets his paycheck...we can buy more vans!!

He'll finally be able to afford the Astroghini!! ;)

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSChS6xVpF0gZrVj43DUDbjI5cl-sDbaMD47wTZIWJtdRUJLV93

DownWitJPP
05-07-2013, 05:35 PM
how is this news? they have been trying to sign him all off-season, this is just more speculation. Not a shot at the OP btw, meant towards giants101

EJ Blue
05-07-2013, 06:00 PM
I must be like the only person indifferent about this. To me, there's no point in talking about him until he gets signed. Jerry Reese has done a good job in making me completely unattached to any player.

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 06:21 PM
how is this news? they have been trying to sign him all off-season, this is just more speculation. Not a shot at the OP btw, meant towards giants101

Media hype at its finest

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 06:22 PM
I must be like the only person indifferent about this. To me, there's no point in talking about him until he gets signed. Jerry Reese has done a good job in making me completely unattached to any player.

That's a sensible approach

bigblue58
05-07-2013, 08:30 PM
http://www.giants101.com/2013/05/07/new-york-giants-looking-to-sign-victor-cruz-long-term-over-the-next-7-10-days/


If it's all the same to you, i don't think i'll hold my breath!
All I know is...if he gets what he wants from the Giants, he had better not drop another ball because it's what separates him from the truly elite receivers who NEVER drop passes.
If he wants to get paid like one, he had better not blow off another dropped pass, as no big deal, EVER again!

RoanokeFan
05-07-2013, 08:31 PM
If it's all the same to you, i don't think i'll hold my breath!
All I know is...if he gets what he wants from the Giants, he had better not drop another ball because it's what separates him from the truly elite receivers who NEVER drop passes.
If he wants to get paid like one, he had better not blow off another dropped pass, as no big deal, EVER again!

Name a receiver who "NEVER" drops passes

B&RWarrior
05-07-2013, 10:44 PM
Name a receiver who "NEVER" drops passes

Percy Harvin alone had 0 drops last year according to the NFL stats, but to your point all the wide receivers that have a large amount of target as did Cruz have a few drops.

Percy also missed 5 games and has a sorted injury history.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 06:52 AM
Percy Harvin alone had 0 drops last year according to the NFL stats, but to your point all the wide receivers that have a large amount of target as did Cruz have a few drops.

Percy also missed 5 games and has a sorted injury history.

And he's "never" dropped a pass in his career? I wish Cruz would stop dropping passes, but when that becomes the focus of his productivity we are missing the boat.


Saying "never" and "always" usually means we're wrong lol

Buddy333
05-08-2013, 07:56 AM
And he's "never" dropped a pass in his career? I wish Cruz would stop dropping passes, but when that becomes the focus of his productivity we are missing the boat.Saying "never" and "always" usually means we're wrong lolThey all drop passes, but he was second for most drops last year no? Anyway, like all stats that can be misleading. Say one came when it was 3rd and 15 and he dropped a pass that was for only 5 yards and he was surrounded by defenders. Is that a big deal if they where not in field goal range? Do they count a drop as a ball that hits his hands? Everyone likes to throw out that old saying if it hits your hands you supposed to catch it but when you are a pro and have pro defenders all over you and a pass is thrown high, low, or wide it's not that easy.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 08:03 AM
They all drop passes, but he was second for most drops last year no? Anyway, like all stats that can be misleading. Say one came when it was 3rd and 15 and he dropped a pass that was for only 5 yards and he was surrounded by defenders. Is that a big deal if they where not in field goal range? Do they count a drop as a ball that hits his hands? Everyone likes to throw out that old saying if it hits your hands you supposed to catch it but when you are a pro and have pro defenders all over you and a pass is thrown high, low, or wide it's not that easy.

It's simple for me, Cruz needs to pay more attention to catching the ball. I recognize his desire to make that first defender miss and it works well for him most of the time. I don't look for excuses for Cruz's drops any more than I do for Eli's inconsistency or Nicks inability to play a full season. In all cases, their upside far outweighs the negatives BUT imagine if they could get the negatives under control

Buddy333
05-08-2013, 08:13 AM
It's simple for me, Cruz needs to pay more attention to catching the ball. I recognize his desire to make that first defender miss and it works well for him most of the time. I don't look for excuses for Cruz's drops any more than I do for Eli's inconsistency or Nicks inability to play a full season. In all cases, their upside far outweighs the negatives BUT imagine if they could get the negatives under controlAgree, just saying if it doesn't hurt the team it doesn't matter except for people who go on stats alone.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 08:16 AM
Agree, just saying if it doesn't hurt the team it doesn't matter except for people who go on stats alone.

I agree with that and I also believe the usual "he dropped an easy TD" is just silly. Once the pass is dropped everything else is a moot point

Kruunch
05-08-2013, 08:23 AM
The more I read about some of the details about the CBA, the more I think Demaurice Smith should be brought up on charges of criminal negligence.

It's amazing how little the players have to work with under the new CBA.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 08:27 AM
The more I read about some of the details about the CBA, the more I think Demaurice Smith should be brought up on charges of criminal negligence.

It's amazing how little the players have to work with under the new CBA.

I truly believe this is a big factor in players losing sight of the basic fundamentals like tackling and blocking. There is so little contact allowed in practice any more it's really laughable. Sometimes I think we see more contact in pre-game warm-ups than it seems they get in practices.

danielboone
05-08-2013, 09:57 AM
[QUOTE=RoanokeFan;761601]And he's "never" dropped a pass in his career? I wish Cruz would stop dropping passes, but when that becomes the focus of his productivity we are missing the boat.

+1

ashleymarie
05-08-2013, 11:35 AM
I truly believe this is a big factor in players losing sight of the basic fundamentals like tackling and blocking. There is so little contact allowed in practice any more it's really laughable. Sometimes I think we see more contact in pre-game warm-ups than it seems they get in practices.

I understand some of the rules changes for injury purposes. It seems though that the players and coaches will turn soft or softer. That would lead to more injuries on the field in games, wouldn't it?

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 11:45 AM
I understand some of the rules changes for injury purposes. It seems though that the players and coaches will turn soft or softer. That would lead to more injuries on the field in games, wouldn't it?

I know they want to keep everybody safe and I am all for that. But this is a violent sport by definition. It always has been and, despite the thousands of pending lawsuits to the contrary, those who are privileged to play at the professional level know what the risks are.

Let's take protective gear, as an example. The NFL wants to mandate certain safety equipment as mandatory, like thigh pads and mouth guards. The NFLPA refuses to allow them to make that happen. So it's OK for players to decide they don't want to wear protective equipment while past injuries are the leading cause of today's lawsuits. Tail wagging the dog?

Now we have reduced the number of practices, how often pads can be worn, when coaches can and can't be among the players at OTAs, how often players can make contact, etc. If they are going to do all of this in the name of safety, fine. Then we had better get used to poor tackling and blocking because the only way to practice those techniques it via contact.

Sorry for the rant.

miked1958
05-08-2013, 11:52 AM
at this point all these stories are just back ground noise to me. until I see a thread that says he signed for X number of years for X number of dollars or he signed his Tender or he will not sign and hold out, all these threads are just a huge waste of time. we been over and over and over and around this subject from every angle possible... sorry im just not optimistic about him and lost some of my excitement towards him with him.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 11:54 AM
at this point all these stories are just back ground noise to me. until I see a thread that says he signed for X number of years for X number of dollars or he signed his Tender or he will not sign and hold out, all these threads are just a huge waste of time. we been over and over and over and around this subject from every angle possible... sorry im just not optimistic about him and lost some of my excitement towards him with him.

You have the option of ignoring them.

B&RWarrior
05-08-2013, 12:26 PM
And he's "never" dropped a pass in his career? I wish Cruz would stop dropping passes, but when that becomes the focus of his productivity we are missing the boat.


Saying "never" and "always" usually means we're wrong lol

RF, I think most people are way off with their perspective on contract negotiations for professional athletes. When we see professional athletes on opposites sides of owners on an issue most fans see "millionaires fighting billionaires", but the things they are fighting for tend to have a more traditional feel of most union/ labor versus management perspectives. I don't get why Cruz is a bad guy for wanting to maximize the monetary value of a once in a lifetime opportunity, yet it's okay for owners to run their business as a shrewdly operated business. Even JR see's it as purely business.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 12:42 PM
RF, I think most people are way off with their perspective on contract negotiations for professional athletes. When we see professional athletes on opposites sides of owners on an issue most fans see "millionaires fighting billionaires", but the things they are fighting for tend to have a more traditional feel of most union/ labor versus management perspectives. I don't get why Cruz is a bad guy for wanting to maximize the monetary value of a once in a lifetime opportunity, yet it's okay for owners to run their business as a shrewdly operated business. Even JR see's it as purely business.

Contract negotiation strategy is a timeless art and only the obscene amounts of money and public nature of celebrity contracts makes these any different. Fans are very emotional and tend to look at the business side of the NFL through a lens that includes terms like "loyalty", "greedy", "diva", etc.

It's hard for some to see a person they once put on a pedestal is just human after all. Players need to take care of their families and their futures just as we all do. When we mortals think about contracts worth multiple millions of $$$$ we wonder what else these guys could possibly ask for, "why don't they just take it and play"?

The truth is, we'd all be doing the very same things they do. The following article from the Daily News re: John Mara's thoughts is reality in the NFL in terms of contract negotiating. It's just not as big a deal as we make it out to be.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2013/05/giants-co-owner-john-mara-on-victor-cruz-contract-negotiations-it%E2%80%99s-not-something-i%E2%80%99m

Toadofsteel
05-08-2013, 12:51 PM
I know they want to keep everybody safe and I am all for that. But this is a violent sport by definition. It always has been and, despite the thousands of pending lawsuits to the contrary, those who are privileged to play at the professional level know what the risks are.

Let's take protective gear, as an example. The NFL wants to mandate certain safety equipment as mandatory, like thigh pads and mouth guards. The NFLPA refuses to allow them to make that happen. So it's OK for players to decide they don't want to wear protective equipment while past injuries are the leading cause of today's lawsuits. Tail wagging the dog?

Now we have reduced the number of practices, how often pads can be worn, when coaches can and can't be among the players at OTAs, how often players can make contact, etc. If they are going to do all of this in the name of safety, fine. Then we had better get used to poor tackling and blocking because the only way to practice those techniques it via contact.

Sorry for the rant.

You would think the NFL could insert indemnity clauses into all new player contracts, let that sit for a decade or so (until most active players have such clauses in their contracts), and then slowly bring contact back.

RoanokeFan
05-08-2013, 12:55 PM
You would think the NFL could insert indemnity clauses into all new player contracts, let that sit for a decade or so (until most active players have such clauses in their contracts), and then slowly bring contact back.

That gets complicated, legally speaking. The "right to sue" is a very difficult thing to waive. Some would suggest it's not even possible. When we go into surgery, for example, we sign a consent form which includes all manner of "it's not our fault if you die." But lawsuits are filed anyway after the tragic end happens. Having the ability to sue doesn't make us right BTW, it just means you get your day in court.

Antwuan
05-08-2013, 12:56 PM
Nice!

Eli TO Shockey
05-08-2013, 12:59 PM
at this point all these stories are just back ground noise to me. until I see a thread that says he signed for X number of years for X number of dollars or he signed his Tender or he will not sign and hold out, all these threads are just a huge waste of time. we been over and over and over and around this subject from every angle possible... sorry im just not optimistic about him and lost some of my excitement towards him with him.

Huge waste of time. Yet, you click on the thread knowing you're about the waste your time and do so anyways. Shame on you.

danielboone
05-08-2013, 08:42 PM
RF, I think most people are way off with their perspective on contract negotiations for professional athletes. When we see professional athletes on opposites sides of owners on an issue most fans see "millionaires fighting billionaires", but the things they are fighting for tend to have a more traditional feel of most union/ labor versus management perspectives. I don't get why Cruz is a bad guy for wanting to maximize the monetary value of a once in a lifetime opportunity, yet it's okay for owners to run their business as a shrewdly operated business. Even JR see's it as purely business.

Absolutely correct. The players are just looking out for their families and the front office doesn't get anywhere near as emotional as we do.

bigblue58
05-09-2013, 04:41 AM
Name a receiver who "NEVER" drops passes

Of course I didn't mean to imply that no receiver ever had zero drops....but ok, I should have said "never drop passes WITH THE REGULARITY THAT CRUZ DROPS PASSES".
With all due respect dude, the ability to catch the ball and rarely drop it, is what makes a receiver "elite" in the first place....... and NO, elite receivers rarely if ever drop passes, especially in critical moments of a game.

RoanokeFan
05-09-2013, 06:56 AM
Of course I didn't mean to imply that no receiver ever had zero drops....but ok, I should have said "never drop passes WITH THE REGULARITY THAT CRUZ DROPS PASSES".
With all due respect dude, the ability to catch the ball and rarely drop it, is what makes a receiver "elite" in the first place....... and NO, elite receivers rarely if ever drop passes, especially in critical moments of a game.

I think if you actually research the stats, you will find some interesting names in the dropped passes category. Cruz needs to work on his drops but he shares the problem with some pretty good receivers.

In 2012, Victor Cruz was tied for second with Calvin Johnson (Det), Brandon Marshall (Chi), and Demarius Thomas (Den). Those three guys are top 5 receivers.

Red Dog
05-09-2013, 08:53 AM
I must be like the only person indifferent about this. To me, there's no point in talking about him until he gets signed. Jerry Reese has done a good job in making me completely unattached to any player.

Unattached, excellent description of what I have become concerning individual players and that a result of free agency. Good descriptive word EJ Blue